Husbands Who Don’t Spiritually Lead are a Problem

Dale Partridge, Complementarianism, Male Headship

-by Kathi

Screenshot 2018-09-18 at 9.53.38 PM

The above post by Dale Partridge was shared on the SSB Facebook page a few days ago. Text reads:

Christian husbands, if another man is teaching your wife more about God than you are, you have a problem. It is not your pastor’s job to be your wife’s spiritual leader. It’s your job. Now, there is nothing wrong with your wife listening to a weekly sermon but there is something wrong if she’s turning to other men for guidance and shepherding that you should be providing. The passivity of Christian husbands in the church must stop. Talk to your wife about God. Initiate daily prayer. Lead a family devotion each morning. Read the scriptures together and answer her questions. We’ve become so comfortable outsourcing our biblical role to the Sunday pastor that we’ve forgotten the command God has given to his sons. #UltimateMarriage

Husbands are the spiritual leaders over their wives? If a husband is not the spiritual leader, he is the problem. The only positive thing I can say about this is that finally, for once, the wife is not the problem!

The issue I have with this is that nowhere in the Bible does it state that the husband is the spiritual leader over the wife. The author states at the end that we have “forgotten the command God has given to his sons.” What command? Where is this?

It’s okay for a wife to listen to a weekly sermon? Well, thank you very much. I’m not sure if he is being condescending about the wife listening to a sermon or to the husband for not preaching to his wife.

So what is a husband supposed to do? Initiate prayer, lead family devotions, read scripture with his wife, and answer his wife’s questions about scripture. My question here is: why can’t a wife do these things on her own?

Why can’t a wife read scripture on her own? Why can’t a wife lead family devotions? Why can’t a wife seek out the answers to her questions about the Bible? Why does a wife need a husband to initiate all these things on her behalf? If a single woman is able to read and study scripture on her own, is that ability lost as soon as she becomes married?

As you can see, this post leaves me with so many more questions than answers. I think it simply comes down to the fact that nowhere in the Bible is it stated that any person is to act in an intercessory role for someone to God. All men and women have full access to God. All men and women have access to the gifting of the Holy Spirit.

This is nothing more than extra-biblical nonsense that places a huge burden on the husband.

Galatians 3: 23-29:  Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith,for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Tom Chantry: Update on His Molestation, Child Abuse, and Assault Charges; and Looking Back

Tom Chantry, Molestation, Child Abuse, and Assault Charges, ARBCA


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Back in his heyday, Pastor Tom Chantry was a highly respected commenter at Pyromaniacs blog hosted by various Calvinist dude-bros such as Phil Johnson, Dan Phillips, Frank Turk, et al. We know he has been on trial for child abuse, molestation, and assault charges.

Today, I looked to see if I could find some old comments of Tom Chantry’s on the Pyromaniacs blog. On Google’s first page after searching: Tom Chantry and Pyromaniacs, I came across one of Pyro’s blog posts entitled, Pornographic Divination. Sure enough, Tom responded in the second comment.

Let me tell you a bit about the brief Pyromaniacs post. In the post from August of 2011, Phil Johnson was writing about “preposterous claims, unhinged behavior, and spiritual quackery that are so prominent at the charismatic movement’s lunatic fringe.” He highlighted a creeper (my adjective) pastor, Mark Driscoll, and explained why Driscoll’s “unhinged behavior” is inappropriate, and then posted video of Driscoll. That is the extent of the blog post. Reader comments ensued.

Note how Phil Johnson warns his readers about the content of the video:

The video below features Mark Driscoll, claiming the Holy Spirit regularly gives him graphic visions showing acts of rape, fornicators in flagrante delicto, and sexual child molesters in the very act.

You can watch the video below. Key parts of the video are transcribed below (H/T Pyromaniacs blog post).

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Mark Driscoll: Some people actually see things. This may be gift of discernment. On occasion, I see things. I see things. Uh, like I was meeting with one person and they—they didn’t know this, but they were abused when they were a child. And I said, “When you were a child you were abused. This person did this to you, physically touched you this way.” 

Driscoll later claimed he could see detailed sexual scenes in his head:

. . . Some of you when you’re counseling you will see things. I mean you will, you will literally gift of discernment see things. I can’t explain it. It doesn’t happen all the time. 

. . . Sometimes your counselee, they will see things. Ye—eh—there’s pa— I found this with people—ok, now let me—I’m gonna ask the demon questions. You tell me what they say.” 

“They don’t say anything.” 

I say, “What do you hear?” 

And they say, “Nothing.” They say, “But I’m seeing stuff.” 

“Oh, oh, well tell me. What’s that?” 

“I’m seeing—you know when I was little my grandpa molested me. I didn’t know that.” 

I said, “Well, let’s not assume it’s true. Go ask your grandfather.” 

Grandpa says, “Yyyeah, when you were little I molested you.” Grandpa was assuming they’d be too young to remember. So he’d only molest grand kids up to a certain age. But they saw it. 

It’s the supernatural. It’s, it’s, it’s the whole other realm. It’s like the Matrix. You can take the blue pill, you take the red pill. You go into this whole other world. And, and, and that’s the way it works. 

So I say—tell me everything you hear, tell me everything you see. And sometimes I see things too. I see things too. I’ve seen women raped. I’ve seen children molested. I’ve seen people abused. I’ve seen people beaten. I’ve seen horrible things done. Horrible things done. I’ve seen children dedicated in occultic groups and demons come upon them as an infant by invitation. And I wasn’t present for any of it, but I’ve seen it visibly. 

. . . And there are some people that have real gift of discernment, and I’m not saying I’m a hundred percent always right with it, but some of you are going to have gift of discernment, and you need to—you need to learn to grow in the use of that gift. And sometimes people will hear things. Sometimes people will see things.


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Ok, that is the end of the Pyromaniacs post. Before we get to Tom Chantry’s comment, let me break quickly and catch you up to speed with Chantry’s most recent assault, molestation, and child abuse charges:

  • Thomas Chantry was arrested and jailed in December of 2016. 
  • Tom Chantry recently went to trial and was convicted of aggravated assault.
  • While awaiting sentencing on September 28th, 2018 for his crimes against children, Chantry was arrested again on multiple counts stemming from his time as an ARBCA Pastor at Miller Valley Baptist Church.
  • Chantry was arrested on a total of nine (9) charges. The counts break down as follows: four (4) counts of aggravated assault, four (4) counts of child molestation and one (1) count of child abuse.
  •  Tom Chantry is currently being held on a One Million Dollar Cash Bond. (Source: ARBCA.org)

 

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Here is the beginning of the comment section from Pyromaniacs’ blog post:

Tom Chantry sex abuse pedophile child abuser

 

 

Matt F said…

Hi Phil,
I’m curious then what you would think of Nathan’s conduct in 2 Samuel 12?
Thanks, Matt

1:51 AM, AUGUST 15, 2011

Tom Chantry said…

Matt F,

Please specify the verses in 2 Samuel 12 in which the Holy Spirit played a porno flick in Nathan’s mind in order to enable him to call out David.

When you’re through with that you can take us through the verses in which Nathan preached publicly on the details of David’s tryst with Bathsheba – including details of sexual positions – for the cough spiritual enlightenment of the people of Jerusalem.

When you’re through with that exegetical task, you can perhaps direct us to the public and written confessions of the alleged adulterers, rapists, molesters, and other brutes whom Driscoll’s prophetic gift has led to repentance. Look for something along the lines of Psalm 51.

See, anyone can claim to have a great prophetic story. I could, for instance, go into church next Sunday, relate a lustful dream I had when I was a teenager, and claim that people no one ever heard of had later confessed to doing everything in my dream. I’m sure the teenage boys in my congregation would get a kick out of it, but it wouldn’t prove a thing.

2:53 AM, AUGUST 15, 2011

Further down, is Pam’s comment:

Pam said…

God bless Phil for warning us and helping us to be on guard of such “teaching.” Thanks be to God for people like Tom Chantry who use their writing skills to help us. One would think there would be enough things in the Bible for a minister to teach than to tell others about their dreams and fantasies and have the nerve to tell us they came from God. How very tragic. Do not our hearts grieve for our churches today? How do these teachings from this Mark fellow honor Christ and help the sheep who do not have a Shepherd? Thanks, Phil.

3:28 AM, AUGUST 15, 2011

 

 

 

Maybe it’s just me, but seeing Tom nonchalantly responding to the commenter after he saw/heard Driscoll talk about physical abuse and child sex abuse (now knowing he has been convicted of similar crimes), makes me sick. I hate abuse. Thank God he has now been exposed and can no longer hurt children. Ugh!

 

 

 


Related links from Todd Wilhelm who has done a stellar job following this case:

 

Lori Alexander: Children Should Visit Their Incarcerated Molesting Fathers

Lori Alexander, Child Sex Abuse, Spiritual Abuse

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-by Kathi

We’ve seen the type of advice Lori Alexander gives to wives experiencing domestic abuse. Just when you think she couldn’t stoop lower, she addresses children visiting their incarcerated fathers who sexually abused them.

It all starts when she defends Michael and Debi Pearl’s teachings which leads to a teachable moment for the child.

 

It is disgusting that Lori finds it acceptable for a child (and the mother for that matter) to visit the perpetrator of their abuse. All in the name of Jesus. I don’t care if it is the child’s father, a child should never be forced to face their abuser as it adds more trauma.

How exactly is a child shown God’s grace and forgiveness when going to visit an “evil father?” Is the mother supposed to do a Bible study and prayer with the child to prepare them to learn forgiveness and grace? Technically, in Lori’s world, that should be the father’s responsibility, but in this case he is “evil,” so I’m assuming that responsibility is on the mother. All it is showing the child is that God (and Lori) cares more for the abuser than the victim.

Of course, if you’re looking for these comments on her Facebook page, you won’t find them. They’re gone. Poof!

Screenshot 2018-09-06 at 7.27.57 PM

Special thanks to my fellow Facebook friend for catching these screen shots before they disappeared!

 

Classical Conversations #7: Business or a Non-Profit; Cult or a Christian Homeschool Group?

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NOTE: This is part of a series that began with these earlier posts:

 


Note from Julie Anne:  Here is another personal account that came in as a comment, but I felt it needed to be a post by itself. In this account, there is discussion about Classical Conversations functions in cult-like ways. Classical Conversations is so big that there are probably many groups that do not function as a cult, but it’s important to note the characteristics of controlling behavior which is the bedrock in cults.

Off the top of my head, here are some of the typical behaviors we see in high-controlling or cult-like groups:

  • The group is the best and only acceptable group. All others are inferior.
  • No other group measures up (educationally, Christian, etc).
  • Members lose a sense of identity as they give more and more of their time to the group.
  • No negative talk about the group is allowed. 
  • There are repercussions on anyone who challenges, criticizes, or talks negatively about the group.
  • Those who leave the group are shunned.
  • Those who leave are labeled as sinners, evil, anything negative.
  • Image is very important to the group. Defend the image at all costs.
  • Lack of clear rules and boundaries. 
  • Group leaders change rules frequently, which leads to confusion.

 


 

"Classical Conversations" "spiritual sounding board"

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by Adele Jane

I have been a CC parent for many years. It initially blessed us because as a parent, I could say “no” to things that weren’t working for us. I was aware of the constant edicts and rule changes from Corporate because the tutors were always having to jump through ridiculous hoops. The company is notoriously anti-technology, as evidenced by their own disorganized and unreliable web site. Also, many moms felt like money was a primary motivator. They charged money for everything: expensive tuition and fees, made all their own texts mandatory and expensive, and then charged a monthly fee to look at resources created and donated by other moms!

But our local community was pleasant and close knit, so we tolerated it, like proverbial frogs in the pot, we were growing dependent on the materials. They constantly said we were the teachers, but went out of their way to make us believe we needed CC to do it, to “trust the system,” to follow the plan the way they said. We had no local say, not even what ages our kids could stop and start various levels! They made the rules.

Everything began to change for us as I stepped up to tutor and later Direct, mainly to offset the cost. The corporate overreach was insane. They literally took over my life and every aspect of my classroom. They dominated my free time with mandatory trainings and other requirements.

All questioning was labelled as sinful or rebellious, and I was made to feel that theirs is the only way. Students who cant keep up are inadequate, all the while spouting this “knowing God and making Him known” motto that does NOT play out on the corporate level. They are all about Jesus when its convenient.

Anyone who asks about these things on their forum or social media is deleted or blocked. Sometimes they use it as grounds for termination. No free speech, even on your own time.

They place multiple layers of “management” between local and corporate, puppets who have lied to us, made us sign contracts that are filled with overreach (thankfully my lawyer was clear about all the items that were so outside labor standards, that they were not only unenforceable, but likely voided the contract), and were cruel to us when we stood our ground.

They have terminated numerous directors in my area for bogus reasons not in the contract. They dictate exactly what you can say, when and how you can say it, but continue to call us independent contractors, and they run their profit-making enterprise from churches who assume they are a non-profit homeschool co-op.

I admit it wasn’t until they pressed me to do “fund raising” for a local training that I even realized they weren’t non-profit. Of course the businesses we approached laughed in our face. “Donate” money to another business just because they present themselves as homeschoolers and Christians? It was laughable I guess.

I feel this organization uses Christian families for gain, and hides behind Christ while they line their pockets. I also feel they run in a cult-like manner, slowly brainwashing families into seeing what isn’t there. My local group is great, but not really worth giving up my freedom that we homeschoolers are so blessed to have.

John Piper – God Purposely Plans Our Pain

Desiring God, John Piper, Discipline, Hurt and Pain

 

Screenshot 2018-08-24 at 6.34.59 PM

-by Kathi

Desiring God recently tweeted an article from 1997.

Broader context of the tweet:

It says that God is disciplining us; he is teaching us and correcting us and transforming us. In other words, God has a purpose and a design in what is happening to us. God is the ultimate doer here. Verse 6 goes so far as to say, “[God] scourges every son whom he receives.” Who is scourging? Who is whipping? (See Hebrews 11:36). God is. God is not a passive observer in our lives while sinners and Satan beat us up. He rules over sinners and Satan, and they unwittingly, and with no less fault or guilt, fulfill his wise and loving purposes of discipline in our lives.

God uses sinners and Satan as part of his purpose to cause us pain?

God plans the hurt in our lives?

Thoughts?

 

Feminism: Is it a rebellion against God?

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I’m just going to plop this video link into this post and see what happens. It’s only 2 minutes, 36 seconds. That’s it. Below is my attempt at transcribing someone speaking off the cuff (a little challenging on the punctuation, just sayin’).  ~ja Continue reading

Tedd Tripp and Tom Chantry: Shepherding a Child’s Heart … or Not

Tedd Tripp, Tom Chantry, Failure to Report, Mandatory Reporter, Spanking, Shepherding a Child’s Heart


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tedd tripp, failure to report, mandatory reporter, spanking, Tom Chantry

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In the late 1990s, I attended a parenting seminar by Tedd Tripp. It may or may not be significant to note that the seminar was held at a Sovereign Grace Ministries church in Chesapeake, Virginia. Continue reading

Bill Hybels, the Willow Creek “System,” and Why the Women Needed to Speak Publicly

Bill Hybels, Clergy Sexual Misconduct, Willow Creek Church


Bill Hybels, Willow Creek, Clergy Sexual Misconduct

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Continue reading

Classical Conversations #3: Leaders Delete Comments and Block Commenters Who Don’t Toe the Line

Classical Conversations, High-Controlling Groups, Deleted Comments, Blocked Commenters, Noble Gibbens


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wavebreakmedia/Shutterstock.com

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NOTE: This is part of a series that began with these earlier posts:

Please take a seat and join the conversation, even if you aren’t a homeschool parent. I think you might find it interesting. Continue reading

Classical Conversations #1: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

Classical Conversations, Homeschool, Classical Education, #ClassicalConvMadeKnown

Continue reading

BREAKING NEWS: Dr. Paige Patterson Terminated, Effective Immediately: No Title, No Housing, No Ongoing Compensation

Paige Patterson, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, SBC, #Churchtoo, #ChurchToo, #MeToo

 

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A new statement was just released at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary: Continue reading

What Does Responding Biblically Really Mean?

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This will be short and sweet. I’m in the final crunch of school with only 2-1/2 weeks until graduation (woohoo!!).

Responding Biblically seems to be thrown around a lot. I just tweeted this because I was thinking about a recent debate on Twitter (which I will write about when I get more time).

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I think this phrase can be used in bad ways. I’d like to open this up for discussion.  Who gets to decide what is Biblical or not? Can you see how this phrase can be used to exert power over another?  Do you have any examples of this you would like to share? Does a pastor saying something is more biblical carry more weight? 

K.B. Davies Says Domestic Violence is No Excuse for Divorce Even in Case of Death

mind-the-gap

-by Kathi

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K.B. Davies frequently comments on Lori Alexander’s Facebook page, The Transformed Wife. Lori allows his comments to stay and doesn’t challenge them. Why Lori leaves comments from men like K.B. and Trey unchallenged is mind boggling. Personally, I would distance myself as far away as possible from someone who uses the Bible to support domestic abuse. The fact that he comments on a women’s-only teaching page is for another day.

Digging a little deeper, he blogs and markets himself with the following: “Transformational Change Agent. Thought Leader. Spiritual Coach. Author & Speaker. Self Development. Personal Growth.”

K.B. Davies recently posted this on his Facebook page: Continue reading

Paige Patterson Relays Story about a Teenager, Describing in His Sermon How “Built” She Was

Paige Patterson, SBC, #churchtoo, Sexist

Have you seen this yet?  This is Paige Patterson, president of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, preaching. Yes, I said preaching. Would you tell me what he is preaching here? This clip is less than 2 minutes long. You cannot make this stuff up.

This is from the same man who gave the convocation at Southwestern’s J. Dalton Havard School for Theological Studies in Houston on January 22, 2018. (Source: Havard students exhorted to live by the Word, resist worldly temptations).

Pastors have a unique role in the lives of their congregation, Patterson said. Pastors serve others during some of life’s most significant moments: birth, salvation, marriage and death. With such an important task, pastors must guard against worldly temptations.

Then reading from Romans 13:14, Patterson concluded with a warning to “make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.” Patterson said the problem is not always the devil’s lies or temptations, but one’s own persistence in “making provisions for the lusts of the flesh.”

“Wherever there is heat in your heart to have something that God has not chosen to give, then it becomes lust,” Patterson said. “And God says that ought not to be true.”

::::::heavy sigh:::::

Update 5/5/18: I was notified that I wrongly interpreted Patterson in the video. As a result, the title has been changed. The previous title incorrectly stated that Patterson was objectifying the teen. I apologize for the error. -Julie Anne

Fred Butler, #MeToo and the Worldly Culture

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Who is Fred Butler?

I saw this tweet the other day. Long-time blog readers will recognize the name, Fred Butler, an employee of Grace to You, the radio ministry of Pastor John MacArthur. Butler’s tweet references another tweet from the @9Marks Twitter account which quotes from an article recently posted on their site. The article is about the church’s response to the #MeToo movement.

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The Problems

I have a number of problems with Fred’s tweet. Continue reading

Sovereign Grace Church Leaders Remove Wife from Women’s Small Group Leader Position after Couple Asks Questions

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Both Jeff Owens and his wife Sarah recently sent out a thread of tweets regarding a recent experience they had at their former (unidentified)  Sovereign Grace church. I think these tweets deserve a wider audience.

What you will read is not healthy at all, and people need to understand the dismissive and bullying behavior employed by Sovereign Grace church leaders when they are encouraged or questioned about having an independent investigation of the decades-old sexual abuse allegations involving many children, many churches, and the mishandling of these cases by church leaders.

Sovereign Grace leaders are still using the same tactics that we’ve heard from personal accounts for years: no one gets to question authority or criticize authority without repercussion. Folks, this is spiritual abuse. Let’s call it what it is.

I have copied the tweets below for easier reading, but if you would like to see the original tweet threads, click on the hyperlink in Jeff Owens’ tweet below, or Sarah’s link within his tweet.

In the tweet thread, there is a reference to Rachael Denhollander. If you are unfamiliar with Rachael Denhollander and her experience in exposing Sovereign Grace ministries mishandling of sex abuse cases, here’s a good article to start:  My Larry Nassar Testimony Went Viral. But There’s More to the Gospel Than Forgiveness.

Before we get to the tweets by Jeff and Sarah Owens, I wanted to share a section of the Sovereign Grace Local Church Polity with you. I have bolded parts pertinent to the communication by congregants to elders and leaders: Continue reading

God Loves Victims More Than Saving an Abusive Marriage

Continue reading

Survivor Emily Jaeger Responds to Bill Gothard’s Reactions to Her Revealing She is “Jane Doe III”

Bill Gothard, sex abuse, cults, lawsuit, Emily Jaeger, freedom, IBLP


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A note of introduction from Julie Anne:

Emily Jaeger is one of the sexual abuse survivors and plaintiffs in the Bill Gothard/IBLP sex abuse lawsuit. Her official statement about the lawsuit was posted on Spiritual Sounding Board a few days ago.

Then someone close to Bill Gothard contacted me. He runs the Discovering Grace website, which is devoted to supporting and defending Bill Gothard and his teachings. We communicated at length, during which he asked me if I wanted to post Bill Gothard’s response to Emily Jaeger’s statement (per Bill’s suggestion). After I declined, it was then published at Discovering Grace website.

I initially said no, because I do not want my blog to be used as a platform for an abuser. However, then I saw Emily Jaeger’s new reply to Bill Gothard’s response statement, and it made sense to me to post both.

I may have more to say later — in fact, I am thinking of doing an SSB “learn to discern” post to analyze these statements in depth. But for now, I’ll say I think his statement is a perfect opportunity to see a spiritual abuser in action, violating boundaries, and hers shows what it looks like when someone leaves the influence of a high-control environment, thinks independently, and makes their own decisions. See what you think … Continue reading

Book Review Series – Lori Alexander’s “The Power of a Transformed Wife” – Ken Alexander has the Final Word

The Power of a Transformed Wife: Lori Alexander, Submission, Control, Godly Marriage

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Comment and response on The Transformed Wife, 2/13/18

-by Kathi

This is a book review series of The Power of a Transformed Wife by Lori Alexander. If you are just joining us, you may click on previous chapter reviews if you’d like to catch up.

Introduction & Chapter 1   Chapter 2   Chapter 3   Chapter 4   Chapter 5   Chapter 6  Chapter 7   Chapter 8 – Part 1   Chapter 8 – Part 2    Chapter 9  Chapter 10   Chapter 11  Chapter 12   Chapter 13   Chapter 14   Chapter 15   Chapter 16   Chapter 17

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Chapter 18 – A Way to a Man’s Heart… Continue reading