K.B. Davies Says Domestic Violence is No Excuse for Divorce Even in Case of Death

mind-the-gap

-by Kathi

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K.B. Davies frequently comments on Lori Alexander’s Facebook page, The Transformed Wife. Lori allows his comments to stay and doesn’t challenge them. Why Lori leaves comments from men like K.B. and Trey unchallenged is mind boggling. Personally, I would distance myself as far away as possible from someone who uses the Bible to support domestic abuse. The fact that he comments on a women’s-only teaching page is for another day.

Digging a little deeper, he blogs and markets himself with the following: “Transformational Change Agent. Thought Leader. Spiritual Coach. Author & Speaker. Self Development. Personal Growth.”

K.B. Davies recently posted this on his Facebook page:

Text reads:

NO EXCUSES:
Contrary to the narrative being pushed, most people do not stay in abusive relationships or marriages because of an unwavering obedience to the word of God.

They do so for various other reasons – the “shame” of divorce, societal and family pressure, embarrassment, fear of the unknown, low self esteem, nowhere else to go, security, comfort, etc, etc.

So, let us bury this lie once and for all, and stop pretending as if we are talking about serious Christians holding on passionately to the word of God at the personal risk of life.

Truth is, those who want disobey God will always look for a loophole to help them justify it. Rather than take responsibility for their choices, they will attempt to conjure up various automatic disclaimers and exemptions, then justify it using the Bible.

With Divorce, the justification is domestic violence – even though the vast majority of divorces are not for this reason.

With Masturbation, it is being single or unmarried – even though those who are married continue their masturbation habit.

With Abortion, it is rape, sexual abuse, or the “mother’s safety” – even though LESS THAN 1% all of abortions are for these 3 reasons joined together.

Can you see a pattern emerging?

There is simply no excuse or justification for disobeying any of God’s commandments – EVEN IF IT RESULTS IN YOUR DEATH.

This hard truth is a scriptural fact – Philippians 2:8.

Thus, one person’s disobedience, cannot be used to justify another person’s disobedience. And the inability of people to obey God in one area, cannot be used as a justification for their disobedience in another area.

Point is, no amount of domestic violence between spouses, no wife killing her husband, or husband killing his wife can change, alter or invalidate what God has laid down regarding Love, Submission, Marriage or Divorce.

A man who does not love his wife the way Christ loved the church, or a woman who does not submit to her husband the way Christ submitted to God, cannot invalidate it either.

It is time we stop using the Bible to justify our weaknesses and blaming it for our inability to do what it says.

K.B. Davies | Transformational Power™ ©2018
#TransformationalPowerPosts
#ObedienceIsUntoDeath

This is why I have a problem with those like Lori Alexander and K.B. Davies who believe that abuse is not an acceptable reason for divorce. In their minds, a victim is bound to their marriage no matter what, Even if your life is at stake.

Let’s start at the beginning of this mess. First, he states that people do not stay in abusive marriages because of their obedience to God, but for various other reasons that have nothing to do with God. Truth is, victims stay in abusive relationships for many reasons, including the sense of duty to God to not end a marriage. That is not a lie. K.B. seems to not understand the dynamics of domestic abuse.

Then he says that victims will use domestic abuse to justify divorce even though most divorces are not for this reason. Common reasons for divorce include infidelity, financial struggles, substance abuse, and incompatability. But, guess what? Abuse is also a reason why people divorce! I’m struggling to follow his logic.

Next comes a Bible verse. Let’s see where this is going:

And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death – even death on a cross! Philippians 2:8

Somehow this verse leads K.B. to surmise that a victim should not justify divorce  (disobedience to God) because the spouse is being disobedient to God by abusing. I’m assuming this is his “two wrongs don’t make a right” argument.

The final kicker in K.B.’s statement is that regardless of how far violence progresses in a relationship, a victim is still bound to the marriage, even if death is imminent. This is because he believes God values the institute of marriage over the individual lives in the marriage.

Here is what K.B. Davies fails to mention: Domestic Abuse is a CRIME! Physical abuse is a crime! Sexual abuse is a crime! Emotional abuse is a crime! Homicide is a C.R.I.M.E.!

K.B. thinks that people use the Bible to justify their weaknesses. Truly it is those who try to maintain power and control that use the Bible to justify their injustices and unrighteousness on those who are suffering.

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices — mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law — justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.(Matthew 23: 23 -24)

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K.B. Davies, Lori Alexander, Domestic Abuse, #churchDV

Discuss: What Can Men Do to Help Remove Misogyny from the Church? Inquiring Elder Wants to Know.

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I received a private message on Twitter a week or so ago from an elder at a church. He reached out to me after reading Beth Moore’s letter to Christian men. You may recall that Beth Moore, in her letter, asked men to put away misogyny and act Christ-like towards women. Here are a few key paragraphs from Beth Moore’s letter:

As a woman leader in the conservative Evangelical world, I learned early to show constant pronounced deference – not just proper respect which I was glad to show – to male leaders and, when placed in situations to serve alongside them, to do so apologetically. I issued disclaimers ad nauseam. I wore flats instead of heels when I knew I’d be serving alongside a man of shorter stature so I wouldn’t be taller than he. I’ve ridden elevators in hotels packed with fellow leaders who were serving at the same event and not been spoken to and, even more awkwardly, in the same vehicles where I was never acknowledged. I’ve been in team meetings where I was either ignored or made fun of, the latter of which I was expected to understand was all in good fun. I am a laugher. I can take jokes and make jokes. I know good fun when I’m having it and I also know when I’m being dismissed and ridiculed. I was the elephant in the room with a skirt on. I’ve been talked down to by male seminary students and held my tongue when I wanted to say, “Brother, I was getting up before dawn to pray and to pore over the Scriptures when you were still in your pull ups.”

I’m asking for your increased awareness of some of the skewed attitudes many of your sisters encounter. Many churches quick to teach submission are often slow to point out that women were also among the followers of Christ (Luke 8), that the first recorded word out of His resurrected mouth was “woman” (John 20:15) and that same woman was the first evangelist. Many churches wholly devoted to teaching the household codes are slow to also point out the numerous women with whom the Apostle Paul served and for whom he possessed obvious esteem. We are fully capable of grappling with the tension the two spectrums create and we must if we’re truly devoted to the whole counsel of God’s Word.

Finally, I’m asking that you would simply have no tolerance for misogyny and dismissiveness toward women in your spheres of influence. I’m asking for your deliberate and clearly conveyed influence toward the imitation of Christ in His attitude and actions toward women. I’m also asking for forgiveness both from my sisters and my brothers. My acquiescence and silence made me complicit in perpetuating an atmosphere in which a damaging relational dynamic has flourished. I want to be a good sister to both genders. Every paragraph in this letter is toward that goal.

The man who contacted me told me that Beth Moore’s letter was read at their elders’ meeting. He asked me how men could practically put into place what Beth Moore was talking about. Yes!!! I will include his questions and expand them with some of my own. This is the kind of conversations we need to be having in churches.

  • There’s a challenge – especially with some cultures within church that the issue stops at the question of sexual immorality and understanding that there were other issues about how men and women relate – especially how male leaders relate were maybe not so easy to grasp for some. How can male leaders engage in healthy relationships with sisters in Christ? How can men uphold integrity for themselves and women in their day-to-day dealings with women both inside and outside the church?
  • That whole fear culture – how do we get beyond that?Is there a way to move beyond that in a healthy way?
  • How can we talk helpfully and appropriately and honestly as churches in dealing with misogyny?

photo credit: SMBCollege SMBC graduates serve as cross-cultural missionaries and ‘tent makers’ in locations around the world via photopin(license)

Lori Alexander, Advocate of Women Staying Married to Their Abusers

 

-by Kathi

deleteLori Alexander at The Transformed Wife continues to advocate that there is no room for divorce for a spouse experiencing physical abuse.

A commentor at her post, For Those Considering Divorce – Stop!, speaks about her mother’s best friend who would show up with bruises and black eyes. With valid reasoning she questions Lori about not divorcing due to physical abuse.

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Screenshot 2018-05-08 at 11.36.07 AM

Text reads:

I’m a bit torn on this issue issue (sic) while I do not like divorce and I believe you should do everything in order to avoid it there are times where I believe it is warranted. Growing up my mother’s best friend husband physically abused her and their children. There were many times where she would show up with bruises and black eyes and she in (sic) the children would stay few days until she went back home. The abuse got so bad she and the children moved away and I never saw them again. So while I believe that marriage is forever I just can’t condone marriages in which one partner is physically abusive.

Lori’s response is that physical abuse is no reason for divorce.

Screenshot 2018-05-08 at 11.36.19 AM

Text reads:

I understand your sentiment, Monique, but it’s not biblical for a woman to divorce her husband because he is physically abusing her. Yes, she needs to seek help and may even have to get the police involved, then separate for a time until he repents of his evil deeds, but there is nothing in God’s Word that says this is a reason for divorce. We must always base our opinions and actions upon the Bible and not what we feel is right.

Here is a post I have put together for women in difficult or destructive marriages:

https://thetransformedwife.com/married-to-angry-men/

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I continue to remain concerned about Lori’s hard-line approach that divorce is not an option for spouses experiencing domestic abuse. Lori repeatedly heaps on spiritual abuse as she uses the Bible to convince spouses (in this case, women) to stay in their abusive marriages.

She is correct in that literally, the Bible does not address divorce due to physical abuse. The problem is that Lori’s literal interpretation does not allow any room for growth in the word. Hebrews 4:12 tells us: “For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.”

I hope that those who experience domestic abuse and follow Lori’s teachings see the error in this message and find the help they need.

*If you are experiencing domestic abuse and need help, please email us and we will assist in finding resources in your area. Or, please reach out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline for support at 800-799-7233 or thehotline.org.


Lori Alexander, The Transformed Wife, Divorce, Physical Abuse

 

Paige Patterson called an abuse advocacy group “as reprehensible as sex criminals”

Paige Patterson, Sex Abuse, Southern Baptist Convention

 

Admin note:  This blog was written and submitted to Spiritual Sounding Board. The author wishes to remain anonymous. ~ja


Paige Patterson called an abuse advocacy group “as reprehensible as sex criminals”

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Did you hear about the movie Spotlight? It won Best Picture in 2015.

It’s a true story about an investigative reporting team from the Boston Globe who uncovered systematic hiding of sexual abuse and abusers in the Catholic Church. The Spotlight team accomplished their exposé, published in 2002, with the help of the organization Survivor Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP).

When the movie aired in 2015, many who had never before heard of SNAP now found out the heartbreaking and heroic work they’d been doing for decades.

But there’s a SNAP outreach for Baptists too, and Christa Brown, the author of the outstanding book This Little Light, was in 2008 the leader of that outreach, having recorded in that book and at www.stopbaptistpredators.com  her work of many years in calling for the Southern Baptist Convention to deal with abuse seriously and establish a database of predators so that churches would better be able to avoid filling their pulpits with them.

These efforts failed.

But this does bring us around to Paige Patterson. Continue reading

Paige Patterson Relays Story about a Teenager, Describing in His Sermon How “Built” She Was

Paige Patterson, SBC, #churchtoo, Sexist

Have you seen this yet?  This is Paige Patterson, president of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, preaching. Yes, I said preaching. Would you tell me what he is preaching here? This clip is less than 2 minutes long. You cannot make this stuff up.

This is from the same man who gave the convocation at Southwestern’s J. Dalton Havard School for Theological Studies in Houston on January 22, 2018. (Source: Havard students exhorted to live by the Word, resist worldly temptations).

Pastors have a unique role in the lives of their congregation, Patterson said. Pastors serve others during some of life’s most significant moments: birth, salvation, marriage and death. With such an important task, pastors must guard against worldly temptations.

Then reading from Romans 13:14, Patterson concluded with a warning to “make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.” Patterson said the problem is not always the devil’s lies or temptations, but one’s own persistence in “making provisions for the lusts of the flesh.”

“Wherever there is heat in your heart to have something that God has not chosen to give, then it becomes lust,” Patterson said. “And God says that ought not to be true.”

::::::heavy sigh:::::

Update 5/5/18: I was notified that I wrongly interpreted Patterson in the video. As a result, the title has been changed. The previous title incorrectly stated that Patterson was objectifying the teen. I apologize for the error. -Julie Anne

Dr. Frank Page: Another Alleged Clergy Sexual Abuse Case?

Frank Page, Moral Failure, Clergy Sexual Abuse, Southern Baptist Convention, Paige Patterson, #MeToo

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Yesterday’s Washington Post article, In a #Metoo moment, will Southern Baptists hold powerful men accountable?, by Jonathan Merritt, discussed how Southern Baptist leaders asking if the #MeToo moment has arrived for the Southern Baptist Convention. He was primarily discussing Paige Patterson and other Southern Baptist leaders who have used their positions of authority to harm women.

I missed it until an alert reader notified me this morning. In that article, Merritt mentioned Frank Page, former chief executive officer of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee. If you recall, just over a month ago, Dr. Frank Page announced his retirement, and then followed up with a confession that he was really stepping down due to moral failure (see Frank Page, President of SBC’s Executive Committee, Resigns and Later Discloses Moral Failure). Continue reading

Analysis: Paige Patterson’s Teachings on Domestic Violence Keep Victims in Harm’s Way

Paige Patterson, Domestic Violence, SBC, Divorce

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Over the weekend, an old recording of an interview from 2000 with Paige Patterson resurfaced, causing an uproar because of his response regarding domestic violence. Paige Patterson is a prominent Southern Baptist leader and president of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary (SWBTS).

I have been familiar with this recording for several years, but numerous attempts to address this issue have been ignored. Until now – when the world is paying attention to sexual abuse, harassment, and violence against women especially. It’s about time! Patterson caught wind of the responses and felt he was misrepresented, so he issued a statement yesterday (April 29th). As of this writing, both The Washington Post and Christianity Today have picked up the story.

I have taken a close look at the transcription from the interview and the new statement. The old statement is shown in orange font, the new statement is in purple font and indented. My editorial comments are in black. While Paige Patterson has attempted to clarify his position on domestic violence and respond to the recent firestorm, his new statement in his press release leaves me even more confused. He contradicts his original statement. The new statement sounds more like a fairy tale, rather than a factual incident. Continue reading

Paige Patterson on Domestic Violence: Audiofile Transcript and Resource Links

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On This Page:

  • Updates
  • Introductory Notes and Key Links
  • Chronological Documents, Analysis, and Commentary
  • Select Resources and Historical Sources
  • Transcript for Audiofile of “Paige Patterson (SBC) Advice to Victims of Domestic Violence”

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Updates

May 12, 2018. This bibliography grew far larger than expected, with delays in finding and posting links to earlier articles. Starting today, new items will appear at the bottom of the section for items from that date of publication, and will be marked with the date the link is added to this bibliography. For readers who just want the latest listings, search for [Link added DATE, 2018.] and fill in the date. Continue reading

Domestic Violence, Ministry, and Controversy in Conservative Christianity: A Guest Post on Historical Context and Perspective

This is a guest post by brad/futuristguy, and is cross-posted on his blog.

Although Brad Sargent is known for his more recent research writings on spiritual abuse from a systemic perspective, he has written and edited on other forms of abuse and violence since the 1980s.

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Statue of Lady Justice © Sebastian Duda, Fotolia #35822634.

Contemporary Conservative Christianity and Questions About Abuse

Contention over abuse and violence in Christian communities has heightened in the era of #metoo and #churchtoo. However, controversies over theology, advocacy, and actions have been with us for a very long time. Recently, comments on abuse made by Paige Patterson, President of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, resurfaced and ignited a social media firestorm. Continue reading

Fred Butler, #MeToo and the Worldly Culture

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Who is Fred Butler?

I saw this tweet the other day. Long-time blog readers will recognize the name, Fred Butler, an employee of Grace to You, the radio ministry of Pastor John MacArthur. Butler’s tweet references another tweet from the @9Marks Twitter account which quotes from an article recently posted on their site. The article is about the church’s response to the #MeToo movement.

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The Problems

I have a number of problems with Fred’s tweet. Continue reading

Sovereign Grace Church Leaders Remove Wife from Women’s Small Group Leader Position after Couple Asks Questions

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Both Jeff Owens and his wife Sarah recently sent out a thread of tweets regarding a recent experience they had at their former (unidentified)  Sovereign Grace church. I think these tweets deserve a wider audience.

What you will read is not healthy at all, and people need to understand the dismissive and bullying behavior employed by Sovereign Grace church leaders when they are encouraged or questioned about having an independent investigation of the decades-old sexual abuse allegations involving many children, many churches, and the mishandling of these cases by church leaders.

Sovereign Grace leaders are still using the same tactics that we’ve heard from personal accounts for years: no one gets to question authority or criticize authority without repercussion. Folks, this is spiritual abuse. Let’s call it what it is.

I have copied the tweets below for easier reading, but if you would like to see the original tweet threads, click on the hyperlink in Jeff Owens’ tweet below, or Sarah’s link within his tweet.

In the tweet thread, there is a reference to Rachael Denhollander. If you are unfamiliar with Rachael Denhollander and her experience in exposing Sovereign Grace ministries mishandling of sex abuse cases, here’s a good article to start:  My Larry Nassar Testimony Went Viral. But There’s More to the Gospel Than Forgiveness.

Before we get to the tweets by Jeff and Sarah Owens, I wanted to share a section of the Sovereign Grace Local Church Polity with you. I have bolded parts pertinent to the communication by congregants to elders and leaders: Continue reading

Resource Bibliography on Willow Creek Church Situation and Bill Hybels’ Reported Misconduct

These links were initially posted on Twitter by brad/futuristguy. Tentatively, both that thread and this post will be updated with additional links as the situation unfolds.

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Thread Introduction and Twitter Handles

This thread includes statements by and about Willow Creek Church and the reported misconduct of Bill Hybels. These were posted by key individuals and organizations in the situation, and in news articles from the Chicago Tribune, which broke the story.

It also includes critical analysis from other sources — survivor bloggers primarily — also showing reactions and commentary from survivors of spiritual abuse and/or sexual abuse/harassment/violence.

Initial entries are in chronological order; more may be added as the situation unfolds. Continue reading

God Loves Victims More Than Saving an Abusive Marriage

Continue reading

Personal Story: What Did the Church Teach You about Yourself?

Continue reading

Rachael Denhollander Challenges Sovereign Grace Churches to Respond Appropriately to Sex Abuse Cases

Continue reading