Doug Phillips & Vision Forum, Homeschool Movement, Patriarchal-Complementarian Movement, Reconstructionist-Dominion Movement, Sexual Abuse/Assault and Churches, Spiritual Abuse, Stay-At-Home Daughters Movement, Women and the Church

People Affected by Doug Phillips’s Ministry: What Now?

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Prominent homeschool and Christian leader Doug Phillips has fallen.  What happens with those he has led?  Where do they find their foundation again?

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Homeschoolers Feeling the Ups and Downs of the Doug Phillips Scandal

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A comment came in yesterday and several of you have already left great comments. This morning when I woke up, I was struck with another aspect I see going on and think it is important to discuss. Here’s the original comment from Anonymous:

[EDITORIAL ADDITION, NOVEMBER 17: For those who may be new to some aspects of the patriarchy movement, the acronym FIC stands for Family-Integrated Church. In some of the articles on Doug Phillips, and movements involving homeschooling, Vision Forum, and/or patriarchy, you may also run across NCFIC, which stands for National Center for Family-Integrated Churches. Scott Brown serves as NCFIC Director, and other NCFIC board members are Don Hart and Jim Zes. All three of these men are also on the board of directors for Vision Forum Ministries, which is in the process of being dissolved.]

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Hi Everyone,

I rarely participate in online forums, so I’m really sure how to suggest something without sounding really harsh or offensive, but some people from our church have been reading around the boards looking for some insight as to how we should feel about DPs resignation. It’s a huge deal for many FICs.

I’ve noticed a lot of people suggesting that somehow the female was a victim and DP was a sex offender. Although this issue is a HUGE scandal for the VF movement and patriarchal circles, I don’t really think many people understand how DP is viewed in his community, especially by women.

MANY women revere(d) him. Many young and even married women revered him. To them he was an idyllic father/husband figure. For some women, it’s even easy to cross the line into sin of the heart.

So, I’m not quite sure where the idea came up that DP was a sex offender or that she is a victim of sexual assault. The female involved was engaged in a consensual affair, and she wasn’t underage. Doug Phillips is offensive in so many ways to normal individuals who exist outside the patriarchal realm, and I have no question after watching him speak many times that he has a deeply evil side, but there are women that look to him like a beacon of hope.

And no, the woman involved was not an employee as someone stated about. She was doing service to one of the biggest and most powerful families in her movement. These people were like her family. Why she chose to go down this road may not be as much a mystery as some believe. He painted himself as the paradigm of strong leadership and, if people can think Hitler’s leadership was worthy of following, it’s not hard to see why DP achieved so much attention.

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I’m so thankful that Anonymous commented because I am certain that his/her comment represents many voices of those who have been strongly influenced by Phillips. This is a big honkin’ deal in the Homeschool Movement. It’s shocking. Many people are continuing to read these posts (hit counts on the blog have easily tripled ever since the breaking of the story). I praise God for that. Is there confusion among the camp? I’m sure there is.

If you read through the comment, you might be able to sense the confusion, although I do not believe that Anonymous felt he/she was confused. There is waffling, the blame is shifted to the woman (this commenter also rightly acknowledges some blame with Phillips, but it seems to be minimized).

“I don’t really think many people understand how DP is viewed in his community, especially by women.”

This sentence gives us a picture that says “we really know what is going on within the community, that outsiders aren’t privy to understand.” There is a sense that those of us on the outside and are talking about the scandal just don’t get it. This is part of the spiritually abusive pattern we see so many times. It ties in with the sense of elitism that many experience in spiritually abusive churches.

There are many people reading here looking for answers, looking for how the outside world perceives the situation. They now have a sense that all was not as rosy at it had once appeared. They may still believe the underlying or general messages of Doug Phillips, but the rug has been pulled out from under them. Now what?

For some, reading the words and comments on blogs will be very difficult. There will be anger and even outrage that some are saying such rude or cruel things. Some will say that those commenting against Phillips just don’t get it. Others will connect with some words they are reading and acknowledge there is some truth.

The Doug Phillips Scandal
has Rocked the Homeschool World.

For those who are new to my blog and reading, I want to quickly give a little background. I’ve been a homeschooling mom for 22 years. I am currently homeschooling 2 children – – the last of my quiver of 7. I have thoroughly enjoyed being a homeschool mom (although I readily admit that now I am somewhat tired – hey, keeping it real!).

In the late ’90s, we lived in Virginia. At my church, maybe 10% of the families homeschooled their children. I attended HEAV (Home Educators Association of Virginia). This was the only Christian homeschooling convention I knew of. It had keynote speakers like Mike Farris and Chris Klicka, Gregg Harris, etc. I cannot remember if Doug Phillips at that time was popular enough to be a keynote speaker, but my husband and I heard him several times at the conventions. I was drawn to his message and even bought my husband a series of CDs for fathers/husbands.

I liked what he was presenting and I wanted my family to look like the family that Phillips presented to us. I didn’t quite know how I was going to pull off the Victorian-dress thing, but I figured I could do a lot of the rest. It seemed very godly to me. I held Phillips and his message in high regard and wished that people in my church would get with the program.

Since I’ve been blogging, been privy to many stories of abuse, I’ve been able to see patterns that have been troubling and some have been alarming. These are situations that I never could have imagined before, but after reading the personal accounts and understanding what has been taught in Patriarchy, in the Homeschool Movement, the dots have been connected and now I see it as a system that can breed abuse if power is given to someone undeserving.

I have great compassion and empathy for those of you who are reading and trying to make sense of this. I get it. I was there. I’ve had to slowly shed the extra-biblical teachings and get back to basics.

If there is just one iota of something that you have read here that makes sense and confirms a suspicion, or answers an unanswered question, I encourage you to keep reading. Keep digging. Keep searching for answers. Search the scriptures and see if what has been taught to you lines up.

If you have questions, please feel free to ask here. I will be moderating carefully. I expect that my regular readers will treat you with utmost respect as so many of them have walked in your shoes having left difficult church situations.

If you feel uncomfortable asking publicly, you can also e-mail me (spirituals@gmail.com) or request to join the forum at spiritualsbforum@gmail.com where there is a special area set up for homeschoolers. This forum is private and many people only use their first name or a pseudonym. It is a safe place.

My heart goes out to those of you who are in a state of confusion. I remember that place well. I pray that God will reveal His truth to you and that you will not stop searching until you have that peace that surpasses all understanding.

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photo credit: rachaelvoorhees via photopin cc

159 thoughts on “People Affected by Doug Phillips’s Ministry: What Now?”

  1. “I’m not sure if there is a book out there like that, but a credible source told me that some churches with some well recognizable names routinely have “heads of household” meetings in which they discuss men taking control of their wives by use of “Christian Domestic Discipline.” :::::gag::::: And yes, this would be within the Doug Phillips circle of Patriarchal friends.”

    That is sickly horrifying. A woman raised in these churches is taught nothing but submission, and probably had her husband chosen by her father. She then gets to be spanked as a perpetual child by her husband. Does “freedom of religion” really apply to women who endure abuse while never having the ability to freely choose it?

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  2. Not that Julie Anne needs my input, but I recall that somebody besides Retha was having a similar problem, and it was discovered their comments were landing in some sort of spam bucket. Several months ago I lost several long comments. Don’t know what the problem was but I haven’t had the problem recently.

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  3. She then gets to be spanked as a perpetual child by her husband. Does “freedom of religion” really apply to women who endure abuse while never having the ability to freely choose it?

    Yes, BTDT – – think this system through with me:

    – daughters either are encouraged to marry young or take care of their fathers “stay-at-home-daughters”

    – daughters do not go to college (some may have online college), but they also do not work outside the home. They do not have any credible work experience.

    – if she gets married and her husband decides to be a bully/abusive/use “domestic discipline” aka domestic violence against his wife, she has very few options because of the isolation within these groups.

    -because she knows she doesn’t have options/resources/marketable skills, she remains in the home, living in abuse

    Is it any wonder why these bullies push this method of keeping women out of college and out of the workforce? It’s the perfect system to keep women barefoot and pregnant and with no way to get out if there is abuse.

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  4. It seems to me that SSM is an unhappy woman whose man cheats on her, who gets her male attention/ affirmation from her woman-hating male commenters who tell her she is the only sensible woman in the world, and they wish their wives were more like her.

    In turn, she strengthens them in their wrong-headedness. It seems to me this is what the 2 Jezebels of the Bible actually did: Jezebel 1, when her man wanted something he could not get in good conscience, helped him get it any way, by killing the guy who stood in his way. (1 Kings 21). Jezebel 2 encouraged men to fornicate with her and eat food offered to idols(Rev 2:20). Both of them helped men to get their sinful desires.

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  5. Julie Anne

    That book I mentioned comes to mind with your comments.
    By the way it is in the public library
    .
    “The Verbally Abusive relationship”.
    Also verbal abuse can be unspoken.

    Verbal abuse, control, manipulation by the perpetrator is subtle and it appears these “religious men” can use scripture as a form of abuse. The daughter, wife thinks her feelings don’t matter and she she focuses on the family, home as her role dictates by her husband. There’s no validation of her as a person ( especially a young woman in her 20’s) and her experiences are invalidated by the dictator dad under the guise of pleasing God. Dad has replaced God. Who can argue with him? The daughter has perceptions I am sure ,but how can she have a right to them? This is very sad to me. It is like being a prisoner.

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  6. @Julie Anne:

    I’m not sure if there is a book out there like that, but a credible source told me that some churches with some well recognizable names routinely have “heads of household” meetings in which they discuss men taking control of their wives by use of “Christian Domestic Discipline.” :::::gag::::: And yes, this would be within the Doug Phillips circle of Patriarchal friends.

    I have the same two reactions I have always had to Christian Domestic Discipline(TM):

    1) “Just like involuntary BDSM, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!”
    2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2ce-zC_n8E

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  7. @Hannah:

    Don’t have time to watch the Manosphere video as I have to get in the shower, but does this have anything to do with Men’s Rights people / blogs? They use the words “alpha” and “beta” too. They also happen to be a perfect front for abusers.

    Manosphere: Male Supremacist, expressed by Alpha Male as rutting animal mounting as many females as possible. Coupled with extreme hatred of anything female; keep them down in their place as MY alpha male sex dolls and nothing else. I suspect a lot of Manosphere types got really burned by women in the past and have flipped into outright hatred and thirst for revenge.

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  8. Did you hear President Obama is giving the Presidental Medal of Freedom (among others) to Gloria Steinem and Oprah Winfrey? What would the Patriarchal men think of this? lol

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  9. BTDT said: “That is sickly horrifying. A woman raised in these churches is taught nothing but submission, and probably had her husband chosen by her father. She then gets to be spanked as a perpetual child by her husband.”

    On another patriarchy/ manosphere site I read years ago, one male commenter actually opined that marriage is “legal pedophilia.” At the stage, I did not understand how patriarchy people raise daughters… :*-(

    “Sickly horrifying” is right.

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  10. Just watched the video. Best line of my morning:

    I previously thought that the fact that I haven’t had any sex lately is just, well, unfortunate, but it turns out it’s actually because the evil feminazis who control the vagina supply have imposed a secret genital boycott on me and other men like me. It’s tantamount to a hate crime.

    Love it! Not having sex with me = hate crime! Make ALL women have sex with me whenever I ask or they’re criminals! *headdesk repeatedly*

    My dad reads (some) men’s rights blogs. They always annoyed me, but now seeing how closely they’re connected to patriarchy and how clueless they are about abuse, it’s starting to actually p*** me off. He even argues with me when I say something non-controversial, like men commit more domestic violence against women than women do against men (which has been statistically demonstrated over and over and over again). I don’t know what it feeds in his psyche to read that crap but he’s stuck with them for years.

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  11. Oh boy! I had never heard of CDD (Christian Domestic Discipline) until yesterday when I read that blog by Raincloud Mary that I posted here. She linked to a “premier” CDD http://christiandomesticdiscipline.com/maintenancediscipline.html site so I clicked on it in curiosity and was introduced to an entire new world!

    What the heck? This is BDSM straight up and simple. Yet they deny that it is. Why the denial?

    Another thing I noticed is that these people Mary, CDD, the Manosphere, the Pearls, etc, present marriage and family life as adversarial. Wife against husband, kids against parents, and discipline is the answer.

    So why are these people so adversarial with one another?

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  12. Retha said,

    On another patriarchy/ manosphere site I read years ago, one male commenter actually opined that marriage is “legal pedophilia.”

    Please tell me that the guy saying that was against it, as in, “How awful,” not as in, “Hey, it’s a really great thing that patriarchal marriages are like legal pedophilia!” I hope he was against it…

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  13. @Hannah:

    Love it! Not having sex with me = hate crime! Make ALL women have sex with me whenever I ask or they’re criminals! *headdesk repeatedly*

    Isn’t the Constitutional Right to “Make ALL women have sex with me whenever and however I want it” the basic trope and appeal of PORN?

    Source for the “Constitutional Right” phrasing:
    “To an alky, the Constitutional Right to My Next Drink must never be infringed.”
    — Steven King, writing about his own bout with alcoholism

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  14. So people within the christian community are really doing this ? I believe it is an attempt to christianize their personal fetish. Wow, just wow. That’s all I can say.

    Note to self: Buy nieces Glocks for Christmas.

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  15. Julie Anne (Nov 20, 8;12am): Yah, it’s a real brain-twister for young people raised in abuse. I married the day after I graduated from college because I could not bear to go home again. I tried very hard to choose someone different from my father, I really did—even asked my friends if they thought my boyfriend was a good man. But I chose poorly because I was flat ignorant of what love looked like. My husband had the same underlying contempt for women but it just showed differently. I felt comfortable with him and didn’t realize it was because his attitudes were familiar. I stayed with him for 18 years.

    I am soooo delighted that my daughter has found a genuinely kind and loving man who she is marrying next spring. The generational cycle is finally broken, thank God!

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  16. “So people within the christian community are really doing this ? I believe it is an attempt to christianize their personal fetish.”

    Bingo!

    Not only that, they feel so much internal guilt and shame over their fetish that they externally project onto other Christians that if they are not doing the same that somehow they are not “as Christian” as they are.

    Its a total shifting of the goal posts.

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  17. Scott, “Maybe vision forum could sell my book right next to the one by the Botkins. ”

    I have to say that when I first heard about Doug Phillip’s affair, I immediately thought one of the Botkin sisters might be the victim.

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  18. One more thing. The first time I came across Botkin material and saw how Papa Botkin uses his daughters to pimp his products and his “mission”, and then I saw a picture of Mama Botkin, it all fell into place.

    Despite claiming to promote marriage and child-bearing, these young women will not marry any time soon because Papa Botkin wants to keep these two young “hotties” around him as long as they look as good as they do. Not only do they work well as the “face” of the Botkin Empire, their beauty and feminine charms inspires their father.

    Above some of you were expressing disgust over the idea of marriage as legalized pedophilia. Though they are no longer children, I do believe that the youth, beauty and feminine charm of their daughters enthrall some of these patriarchal dominionist fathers beyond what their own wives do.

    And that, my friends, is exactly why many of them are pushing 30 without ever having been married.

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  19. I felt comfortable with him and didn’t realize it was because his attitudes were familiar. I stayed with him for 18 years.

    I’m sorry to hear this, Patrice. One more reason to shout it out from the rooftops that this kind of patriarchy is so wrong.

    I’m thrilled to hear the good news about your daughter’s wonderful fiancé. Yea!

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  20. Ri Ri said: “I do believe that the youth, beauty and feminine charm of their daughters enthrall some of these patriarchal dominionist fathers beyond what their own wives do.
    Voddie Baucham said: “A lot of men are leaving their wives for younger women because they yearn for attention from younger women. And God gave them a daughter who can give them that.”
    Sure sounds like it, Ri Ri.

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  21. “Voddie Baucham said, ‘A lot of men are leaving their wives for younger women because they yearn for attention from younger women. And God gave them a daughter who can give them that.’ ”

    Whoa. I just googled “Voddie Baucham” and he’s a pastor who actually said that like its a good thing?!?!

    But I’m telling you, this type of Oedipal-complex relationship between parents and child is not uncommon in some cultures. In South Asia its between mothers and their sons. Its because the sons never leave home but instead bring their brides to live with them and their parents. The mother-in-law of the bride is all sorts of jealous that her son’s wife is going to divert his attention, emotions and resources from her.

    If he buys his wife a piece of jewelry, his mother will ask, “where’s mine?”

    She also tries to prevent the couple from going on a honeymoon or spending too much time alone. I swear I’ve heard stories of these mothers sleeping in the same bedroom as their sons and daughters in law!

    I think its because in those cultures love (as in being “in love”), romance and deep sexual attraction are not considered necessary for marriage, particularly arranged marriages. So women who never “fell in love with” their husbands misplace their longing for romance onto their sons, not in an overtly sexual way, but in a covert affectionate way.

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  22. Googled some more and Voddie explains it in context here;

    http://www.gracefamilybaptist.net/voddie-baucham-ministries/blog/november-question-month-update-edition-2009-11/

    There’s a Christian commenter over at Raincloud Mary’s and a few of her male orbiter blogs that insists that watching porn is good and healthy. A number of commenters have provided her with links to scientific research showing exactly how unhealthy it is, but she balks and calls the studies “pseudo science”.

    Question: If fornication is a sin, how is willingly and joyfully watching fornication also not a sin? What to speak of PAYING to watch it.

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  23. On another patriarchy/ manosphere site I read years ago, one male commenter actually opined that marriage is “legal pedophilia.”

    Please tell me that the guy saying that was against it, as in, “How awful,” not as in, “Hey, it’s a really great thing that patriarchal marriages are like legal pedophilia!” I hope he was against it…

    No, he was stating it as his perception. He was just believing that he had to treat his wife like a child.

    And, in my humble opinion, his perception of that belief is not incorrect and, perhaps because of its taboo nature, not pointed out to extreme patriarchalists (both men and women) often enough. Some time ago I posted a similar, perhaps somewhat worse, comment on Laura Grace Robin’s blog when she posted, within the comments section, this little gem:

    “Men should not worship or cater to women, but look out for them like a father would with a child. Women are perpetual children who need authority, not catering.”

    I didn’t spell out for them in detail why likening husband/wife relationship to that of father/child was rather sick, I just pointed out that it had rather sick implications.

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  24. @ Ri Ri:

    There’s a Christian commenter over at Raincloud Mary’s and a few of her male orbiter blogs that insists that watching porn is good and healthy.

    Wow…no wonder they’re so willing to forgive Doug’s little “indiscretion.”

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  25. O man I can’t read this whole thread, I got halfway through and I’m dying of laughter. First – @TWEston – your takedown of Stacy McDonald was perfect. What a troglodyte. She is an embarrassment to all women.
    Second- HUG – when you referred to Driscoll as “Bee Jay Driscoll” I almost peed my pants laughing. Thank goodness my cubicle mates are used to me laughing at my computer screen at odd moments of the day.
    and to the commenter who posted that video of “Hellfire” –where the evil preacher from the Hunchback sings about his lust for Esmeralda – I remember seeing that the first time and being terrified (as an ADULT!) my daughter gets freaked out by that number too.
    Something too close to “real” evil there…it left behind Disneyland and ventured too close to actual hell. :/

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  26. If the woman DP was involved with was the nanny that helped his family then what he did was along the lines of sexual harassment. I am not an attorney but there are a number of criminal laws about something like this.

    It makes sense that it would a nanny caring for his family he was involved with since the claim that the “woman” (more like a girl) wasn’t an employee.

    This is a disgrace. It probably shows what happens when tries to do things in their own effort using rules rather then letting God change the person and their heart.

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  27. steve240 – – In this Patriarchal environment, it could easily be said that her father transferred his “umbrella of protection” over to Phillips as his daughter “served” Phillips. In this sense, Phillips must have asked for more service than the kind intended by her father.

    As this story has unfolded, I’ve often wondered what her father has to say about it all. Think about it – – because of Phillips’ high level of respect and his rock star status among that group, could it have been thought of as an honor? Because I think in most circles, dads might want to get out their gun and go after the perp.

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  28. “Second- HUG – when you referred to Driscoll as “Bee Jay Driscoll” I almost peed my pants laughing.”

    I heard there was a rock star guru pastor preaching blow jobs from the pulpit, is this what you’re referring to?

    I’m curious as to the need for sexual techniques to be preached in church? Isn’t sex with one’s partner a private, intimate exchange that progresses over time as communication between the couple deepens and expands.

    Doesn’t intimacy between husband and wife evolve organically?

    Why the need for some pulpit pounder to tell us what to do?

    Basically that’s what the BDSM fetishers who go by the euphemism “Christian Domestic Discipline” are attempting.

    They’re trying to tell us that our sex life should look like theirs. Why can’t they just keep their private lives to themselves? Its TMI and I don’t get it.

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  29. yes I’m referring to Driscoll – he is famous for his porn-like interpretation of the Song of Solomon, among other things. Plus he wrote a book about married sex…I think the takeaway for the guys was that anal sex was godly. If I remember correctly.

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  30. Ri Ri said: “They’re trying to tell us that our sex life should look like theirs.”

    I am concerned that they are not just trying to convince us, but also their own wives, who have to “submit” to this hitting…

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  31. “I am concerned that they are not just trying to convince us, but also their own wives, who have to “submit” to this hitting…”

    – Well, if the CDD blog I came across yesterday is anything to go by, its often the wives who are introducing these ideas to their husbands. Really I think these women must’ve have truly messed up childhoods.

    One even writes about the abuse she suffered at the hands of her father, then her first husband. Finally she marries a good guy who treats her right but appearantly can’t stand the drama-free equanimity of a peaceful marital union and hence introduces CDD to her current hubbie who was relunctant to try it. Well, eventually he got into it and now she feels content and “safe” with him because he’s spanking her behind “out of love”, not out of hate like her abusive dad and ex-husband.

    Homegirl be messed in the head to say the least.

    “I think the takeaway for the guys was that anal sex was godly. ”

    – Anal sex is porn propaganda that presents many health problems for those who engage in it regularly over years. Adult diapers are being ordered online anonymously (too embarrassed to go to the store) by increasingly younger men and women – FOR A REASON.

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  32. RI Ri, Indeed, I could never understand why someone like Driscoll, or anyone for that matter, would like anal sex. The mere thought of such a practice makes me cringe. And yes, i’ve heard the same thing regarding medical complications and the necessity for diapers.

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  33. Wow…last time I commented here, was shortly after the YouTube post of Dire Straits. So, we went from:

    Dire Straits to Diapers. Who knows…ObamaCare might cover all medical costs…just DEPENDS? Money for something!! LOL!!

    Ed

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  34. It appears that these supporters of Vision Forum are praying for “the woman involved”.

    FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 8, 2013
    Doug Phillips & Vision Forum

    Most who know us personally and who follow our blog are aware that we’re in agreement with many of the principles espoused by Vision Forum and Doug Phillips. In light of Doug’s recent confession, some have insinuated that we are guilty of putting the man and his ministry on a pedestal, that we blindly overlooked or ignored areas they found problematic and brought to our attention. The former is entirely true, we were indeed, and remain, committed supporters of the biblical truths espoused by Vision Forum and Doug Phillips throughout the years, but the latter is wholly untrue. We put no man on any pedestal, well knowing how frail and prone to sin all are, we simply were, and are, thankful for the challenge he laid before us some many years ago to order our personal lives, as well as our family life, in a way which reflects that which is directly and principally taught in the Word. Doug Phillips happened to be one of the few men bold enough to speak those truths for many years, and we remain exceedingly thankful that the Lord raised him up for such a time as this.

    We want to make it abundantly clear that we make no attempt to distance ourselves from the ministry or the man. We yet consider Vision Forum to be an excellent resource for faith affirming and family building materials and plan to continue to benefit from the products offered, encouraging others to do likewise. As for the man, our brother, Doug, he has seemingly proven himself to be wholly repentant, taking all necessary steps to subject himself to the accountability and oversight of his church elders, to make amends where and as possible, and to endeavour to walk out his repentance in humility, and so we stand with and for him, praying that his repentance is true and that good fruit will be the result from this time forward.

    We particularly pray for Doug’s precious wife, a dear and faithful handmaiden of the Lord, and their sweet children, asking the Lord to provide comfort, peace, and strength to endure this most severe trial, and to emerge more deeply in love with their Saviour and more firmly committed to the truths of His Word.

    We also pray for the woman involved, whomever she may be, that she, too, will repent of her sin if she hasn’t already, that she will find forgiveness and restoration in that One Who paid the ultimate price for our sin, Who willingly subjected Himself to the cross that we might be spared the justly deserved eternal wrath of a Holy God. We also pray for her family, asking the Lord to do what only He can do, to bring healing and hope in the midst of sorrow.

    In addition, we pray for those who have been shaken by this news, those who have been left reeling and confused, who are tempted to throw out the truths of God’s Word, the baby if you will, with the bath water. Be encouraged, brethren, God’s Word remains true and hinges on no man, save Christ Jesus. Do not despair, but taste and see that the Lord is good, that He is pruning His Church, cleansing His Bride, that He will allow no sin to remain in His camp. May our brother’s sin cause us to be ever mindful of our own propensity to compromise, may it be the impetus to examine our own hearts, to repent of any and all we will inevitably find within, and to walk from this day forward in such a way as to testify to His saving and keeping grace. Whatever we do, we oughtn’t despair. God is on His throne and He is not surprised or shaken by any of this.

    We also fervently pray that the Lord will keep the howling wolves at bay, those who are gleefully delighting in our brother’s fall, those who are shrieking and cackling and frothing at the mouth, while they, themselves, wallow in the filth and glory in the stench of their own sin, even some who profess Christ. May those who are His repent of their gossip and gloating, and may those who are without have the scales removed from their eyes and be brought into the saving knowledge of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

    And finally, brethren, according to 1 Corinthians 10:12:

    “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”

    buildingafamilythatwillstand.blogspot.com/2013/11/doug-phillips-vision-forum.html

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  35. @ Katy:

    to the commenter who posted that video of “Hellfire”

    That was me. After my friend showed me that song I understood why growing up, I was allowed to watch every Disney movie EXCEPT Hunchback. 🙂

    It definitely cuts to the heart of the matter IMO. At no point in the song does Frollo ever take responsibility for his own actions / feelings. The only two options are either 1) act on them, or 2) eliminate the source of the temptation (i.e., Esmeralda). Because it’s apparently not possible for him to restrain himself as long as she exists in his world. When you realize how similar this is to some of the reasoning behind Christian modesty culture (though granted it’s a much more extreme version), it gets even creepier. We don’t often get to see the logic exposed in such bald-faced terms.

    Also the fact that Frollo’s pleading for sympathy from the Virgin Mary of all people, while engaging in such massive blame-shifting and self-justification, makes it even more ironic (but then again, given that he sees her as sinless, she’s probably the only woman he can respect). I doubt he’s getting many points though – she’s probably banging her head against a brick up there listening to him. 🙂

    If I ever do a sarcastic post featuring “instructional videos” for patriarchy on Scarlet Letters, I will DEFINITELY be including Hellfire. 😉

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  36. Ri Ri,
    Well, how kind, loving, and gracious of them to pray for the victim.
    But, as usual with these folks, they question her repentance as if she were just as guilty as Doug. They obviously don’t see the imbalance in the authority/power structure in her relationship with Doug. Once again, the secular world trumps the Christian world in calling it abuse. Who are the real wolves? I say it’s those who stand behind that letter.

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  37. “We also pray for the woman involved, whomever she may be, that she, too, will repent of her sin if she hasn’t already . . .”

    They have transmogrified Doug Phillips’ victim into the perp.

    “We also fervently pray that the Lord will keep the howling wolves at bay, those who are gleefully delighting in our brother’s fall, those who are shrieking and cackling and frothing at the mouth, while they, themselves, wallow in the filth and glory in the stench of their own sin, even some who profess Christ. May those who are His repent of their gossip and gloating,”

    Shrieking and cackling? They are characterizing DP’s detractors as witches. How interesting that, in attributing vile conduct to us, evil personified takes the form of a woman.

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  38. Ok, I went to this blog. The writer posts to an anonymous poster …..”Anonymous”, if you’d like us to post or respond to your question/comment, you’ll have to identify yourself before we’d consider doing so. We’re not inclined to give a voice to people who hide behind anonymity. What you had to say may be legitimate, but I’m sure you understand our reasons for ensuring that those who speak to any issue on our blog do so openly and transparently. ” AND YET she has NO information on who she is on her ABOUT ME… nor do the other two contributors. Hmmmm Double standard ?

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  39. I really wish I could copy that whole blog post and make a Learn and Discern article out of it, but I haven’t been given permission to use it. It is so revealing of someone who is drinking the Kool-Aid and it is thick.

    In paragraph one there is nothing but defending this system of patriarchy: Doug Phillips happened to be one of the few men bold enough to speak those truths for many years, and we remain exceedingly thankful that the Lord raised him up for such a time as this. Doug is their hero for teaching the Word. No one else did this, but Doug did: thankful for the challenge he laid before us some many years ago to order our personal lives, as well as our family life, in a way which reflects that which is directly and principally taught in the Word. Doug’s teachings are Biblical.

    Doug, he has seemingly proven himself to be wholly repentant, taking all necessary steps to subject himself to the accountability and oversight of his church elders, to make amends where and as possible,

    This is a complete farce. He has proven nothing except that he likes attention and he hasn’t completely turned over the keys to Vision Forum. Where do we see that he has subjected himself to accountability with his elders? Where has he made amends – he has not even mentioned the victim? Repentance can only be judged over years of time, not immediately after two vague public statements.

    We also pray for the woman involved, whomever she may be, that she, too, will repent of her sin if she hasn’t already, that she will find forgiveness and restoration in that One Who paid the ultimate price for our sin, Who willingly subjected Himself to the cross that we might be spared the justly deserved eternal wrath of a Holy God.

    This is so revealing of the culture. She did it. You don’t hear anything of Doug’s sin, only a reflection of his repentance. This is the typical response to adultery: the woman is responsible. I was actually shocked to read how much responsibility they place on the woman, even though I know the pattern. To see it in writing – ACK!

    We also fervently pray that the Lord will keep the howling wolves at bay, those who are gleefully delighting in our brother’s fall, those who are shrieking and cackling and frothing at the mouth, while they, themselves, wallow in the filth and glory in the stench of their own sin, even some who profess Christ. May those who are His repent of their gossip and gloating, and may those who are without have the scales removed from their eyes and be brought into the saving knowledge of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

    Yea, because everybody who looks suspiciously at this culture that Phillips created is the enemy. This shows the elitism – they have it the right way and anyone who questions, criticizes, discusses this situation is of the enemy. Doug Wilson said this. Doug Phillips in his clarification did the same. That is how cult leaders work and it trickles down to even the lowly people who will fight to defend the evil system they are living in. You do not question the “godly way we do things.” How sad. Some people will only view any discussion of this as an attack and they will take that attack as persecution. Instead of using Phillips’ scandal to question, dig deeper into God’s Word to question if all of this teaching was correct, the outside “persecution” only underscores for them that they are doing the right thing. They feel they are being persecuted for righteousness sake. “It’s the enemy attacking us so we need to hold firm to what we’ve been taught.” Sick.

    BTW, if you take a look at that website, you can see that they are in big-time with everything Vision Forum. I saw an article where they put together gifts to distribute at a homeschool convention. The gift was an assortment of items. I recognized Vision Forum items, CD by Botkin girls, etc.

    Look on their sidebar:

    FAVOURITE LINKS
    Answers In Genesis
    Generations With Vision (This is Kevin Swanson’s baby)
    HeartCry Missionary Society (Paul Washer)
    National Center For Family Integrated Churches (This group was originally part of Vision Forum and broke off. Scott Brown is now director)
    Vision Forum
    Voddie Baucham Ministries

    ’nuff said.

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  40. I don’t question who they support. I imagine if one digs deep enough we could get their names if we wanted to but they require posters to share more than they do? Or perhaps just the posters that disagree with them??

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  41. Has anyone read “Peace Child’ by Don Richardson? He was a missionary to a tribe of cannibals for whom “the heroes are men who formed friendships with the express purpose of later betraying the befriended one to be killed and eaten,” a practice known as “fattening with friendship for the slaughter.” When he read the Gospel to them, they thought Judas was the greatest hero in history. 3 years of being Jesus’ friend before throwing Him under the bus! Amazing! 3 whole years! For Phillips, it was more like 10. OK– I’m not saying Phillips was a cannibal or a Judas. But I took some time to look back through certain archives, and found the alleged victim (or alleged Delilah, if you’re Mr Wilson) over and over again, mentioned as a special friend to the Phillips family, or a big sister to the kids. Phillips plastered photos and videos (allegedly) of his alleged victim with his family– all over the world wide Internet, for crying out loud! It takes real ******* (Mr Rogers can’t say the best terms) to do something like that! The evil was of an incestuous nature, considering how he and his family looked upon the woman. But you can’t go to jail for a physical component with a friend, unless the physical component started further back, which is of course possible. Obviously, there may be other victims or financial components we don’t know about yet, and those could challenge his lawyerly skills.

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  42. It doesn’t take a scandal to question the nature of the movement to which Phillips was attached. That a scandal has surfaced is not the least bit surprising.

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  43. I’m revisiting this:

    “I’ve noticed a lot of people suggesting that somehow the female was a victim and DP was a sex offender. Although this issue is a HUGE scandal for the VF movement and patriarchal circles, I don’t really think many people understand how DP is viewed in his community, especially by women.

    MANY women revere(d) him. Many young and even married women revered him. To them he was an idyllic father/husband figure. For some women, it’s even easy to cross the line into sin of the heart.

    So, I’m not quite sure where the idea came up that DP was a sex offender or that she is a victim of sexual assault. The female involved was engaged in a consensual affair, and she wasn’t underage. Doug Phillips is offensive in so many ways to normal individuals who exist outside the patriarchal realm, and I have no question after watching him speak many times that he has a deeply evil side, but there are women that look to him like a beacon of hope.

    And no, the woman involved was not an employee as someone stated about. She was doing service to one of the biggest and most powerful families in her movement. These people were like her family. Why she chose to go down this road may not be as much a mystery as some believe. He painted himself as the paradigm of strong leadership and, if people can think Hitler’s leadership was worthy of following, it’s not hard to see why DP achieved so much attention.”

    ……… And I do think it is worth noting that many people, and that includes women, seem to be looking for a hero. Just see how popular celebrities are. These larger than life figures (and to be sure Phillips was a celebrity preacher) represent to the human psyche our own possibilities that we are too scared to attempt. The fear of failure is a real thing, as is the fear of success.

    And lets face it, some women, many women, are turned on by fame, fortune and power. Phillips had all three.

    So yes, I can see where women and even teenage girls might become smitten with him. That being said, has the one holding the power it is his responsibility to put out any such fires, not inflame them further.

    HOWEVER, men like him will not do so because that is why they purposely enter, or at least gravitate towards, vocations where they can eventually achieve fame and power.

    Please google “dark triad”

    I’m willing to bet that most people in positions of huge power are dark triad types.

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  44. While all your comments are interesting (I couldn’t read them all I homeschool) it appears that some have formulated their own opinions as to the integrity of DP’s message. Because he has sinned, now the beginning message has no validity and all he’s ever been doing is lurking for families to hurt. This is simply not true. He is truthful and yes, he had to confess when “busted” but don’t we all sin? Don’t we all fall short? He was never trying to preach one thing and live another. This sin he chose and walked in really is not who he is. And for homeschoolers and other onlookers to summarize his life and intentions by this sin is SIN. We can talk about how it hurt us. We can talk about how it hurt our families, but mostly what we should be doing is praying for Beall and his children and for HIM for that matter! I’m surprised that most of you don’t understand that sin will approach us all….none of us will be perfect….and to see wolves like this in the homeschooling community is dreadful for all of us who should pray for our fallen comrades cuz the day will come and you KNOW it will that you will be the one in the hot seat of sin desperately wondering why the wolves are attacking you!

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