ABUSE & VIOLENCE IN THE CHURCH, child abuse, Clergy Misconduct, Clergy Sex Abuse, Crazy Things Church Leaders Say & Do, Doctrine as Idol, Failure to Report Crimes, Leaving the Church, Mandatory Reporting, Pulpit & Pen blog, Sexual Abuse/Assault and Churches, SMH (Shake My Head), Spiritual Bullies, Troubling Tweets, Women and the Church

Seth Dunn Tweets that a Woman Pastor is Just as Bad as a Sex Offender Who is Hired as a Pastor

Seth Dunn, Misogynist, Spiritual Bully

Amid the shocking news coming from the Houston Chronicle in their recent article. Abuse of Faith: Investigation reveals 700 victims of Southern Baptist sexual abuse over 20 years, Seth Dunn has hijacked the conversation to draw attention to his pet peeve: female pastors. He expresses no concern about the victims of sexual abuse, but instead claims that a female pastor is equivalent (theologically???) as a pastor hired as a sex offender.

I.just.can’t. It is people like Seth, who refuse to take sex abuse of children seriously, why we have had very little positive change in how child sex abuse cases have been handled. They are so hung up on their pet doctrinal stances that the innocent victims don’t matter.

And they wonder why people leave churches!

66 thoughts on “Seth Dunn Tweets that a Woman Pastor is Just as Bad as a Sex Offender Who is Hired as a Pastor”

  1. I read the article this morning, and it made me feel ill. This tweet is just creepy, and condones the behavior of every So Baptist pastor/teacher who has ever been guilty of the sexual abuse of anyone. It will be interesting to see how the talking heads of the Convention respond to the tweet.

    Like

  2. If your theology is of more concern to you than the incredible harm done (in the name of God!) to real people, you probably need to ponder Jesus’s use of the words “sons of hell” to describe the religious leaders of his day…

    Liked by 2 people

  3. I didn’t want to give his tweet the dignity of a response on twitter so he can continue to flame; However, I am seething at the lack of any care or concern for the victims of his SB churches. Disgusting. If we had more women in church leadership, I do not believe this autrocity would have been allowed to be hidden. I need to go punch something, excuse me

    Like

  4. On Earth, Jesus sent a woman to proclaim his word to the disciples. Why do we think anything is different now that he is sitting in Heaven?

    Like

  5. I have a long history of dealing with people with narcissistic personality disorder, and I think is quite probable that Seth has it. The best and only type of contact to have with these people is NO CONTACT; NO RESPONSE. Anything else feeds their ego and keeps them coming back for more. He must be having an exhilarating last two days with all the feedback he’s been getting. With narcissists it doesn’t matter if it’s negative or positive attention…any attention thrills them. Everyone should block him on all social media and starve him of the attention he desires.

    Liked by 4 people

  6. You have missed out in the comment title the word theologically.

    He seems to be saying two things: firstly, it is wrong for women to be pastors. There is a line of reasoning behind this that he would claim derives from the NT itself. This has been the majority if not sole view of the church throughout its history until about 50 years ago.

    Secondly, it is wrong to appoint a sex offender as a pastor. The NT says no to that as well (“fierce wolves”).

    He is not equating as far as I can see that women pastors are of the same category as sex offenders, just that the bible says no to both.

    My main reaction to this though is different from this, namely apart from whether we should be ‘ordaining’ anyone in the first place, isn’t he lacking in wisdom in bringing up women pastors in the same breath as condemning abusers in the pastorate? He’s not thought about the effect this can have on the watching world. The potential for this to be misunderstood. Especially by those who don’t know why he thinks the way he does.

    I see some parallel between this and YEC. All Christians believe God created the heavens and the earth, this is non-negotiable. But insisting on literal 24 hour day six day creation as the only way to understand this can put an unnecessary stumbling block with those the church is trying to reach with the gospel, that is, it may not be the wisest approach. The various interpretations of Genesis should be more an in-house discussion, preferably amongst friends!

    That said, avoiding church because it won’t ordain women or because it takes Genesis (overly) literally will be no defence before God for unbelief at the end of the age.

    I don’t know the wider context of his tweet except revelations of abuse and cover ups amongst Baptists. Perhaps he is reacting to suggestions this problem would be solved by ordaining women. I think that is very debatable at best, but the issues would be best discussed separately.

    Like

  7. I was just thinking to myself how pleasant this blog has been without KAS’ presence, then I saw this newest blog post from JA and thought, if any post is going to get KAS to offer his unwanted, pro-complementarian spin, it would likely be this one. And I was right.

    I haven’t seen anyone, since the Houston Chronicle story broke of decades long abuse cover ups by the Southern Baptists, argue that women should be ordained.

    But, in his tweets to some lady who said she was an ordained pastor in her denomination, Seth told her, ‘That is why your denomination is failing,’ so I tweeted back to him, “And having male-only leadership in the SBC is what played a role in a decades long issue with sexual abuse cover ups in the SBC”

    So, actually, Seth is the one who brought that issue up first, not anyone else I saw.

    He is essentially equating women pastors with child sexual abusers, which is absolutely vile.

    You do not have to agree with women working as pastors, but to equate them (in ANY manner, theologically or otherwise) to child sex predators is disgusting. It’s not only insulting to women, to women preachers, but it shows a complete lack of sensitivity to survivors of child sex abuse.

    ((end of Part 1. Part 2 in a minute.))

    Like

  8. Part 2.
    KAS said,

    <

    blockquote>You have missed out in the comment title the word theologically. No, KAS, we saw it.

    KAS said,

    That said, avoiding church because it won’t ordain women or because it takes Genesis (overly) literally will be no defence before God for unbelief at the end of the age.

    Sure it is a defense.

    I stopped going to church years back, due to several reasons, one of which is the sexism taught under the complementarian theology.

    I’m still debating in my own mind whether to leave the faith entirely or not…. and the more guys like you and Seth keep doing what you do, the farther you drive me away.

    There are churches that allow women as preachers.
    Someone who is unhappy with Southern Baptists and other complementarian churches could possibly decide to attend a church that supports gender egalitarianism.

    We’ve been down this road before.
    KAS sits around dictating to other people, what in his opinion, is a justifiable reason from them to reject the Christian faith or not…

    And he has stated before that a woman being hurt by the sexist doctrines, attitudes, or behaviors is not excuse enough, in his opinion.

    And of course he will attempt to argue his view is “biblical.”
    The Bible also says that people who claim God’s name do in fact at times drive off believers into unbelief, or cause them to question the faith.

    As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

    You would do well to acknowledge and dwell on people’s pain, KAS, rather than keep tut-tutting them for why they will be leaving the faith, or why they have already rejected it.

    KAS said,

    That said, avoiding church because it won’t ordain women or because it takes Genesis (overly) literally will be no defence before God for unbelief at the end of the age.

    I think you are absolutely vile for even bringing this up. I question your motives here.

    And, btw, several people leaving Seth comments under his Tweet did state that it was sexism such as his, and his nasty attitude, which played a role in causing them to reject Jesus Christ and to become atheists.

    You don’t care that your nasty, sexist views push people away from Jesus, all you want to do is keep arguing your theology is correct and to shame anyone who leaves the faith because of it.

    Like

  9. Someone said in that first Seth tweet thread that after she asked him if he was sexually abusing his wife and kids – because often, sexual predators in the pulpit will do exactly as he did in that tweet, so she suspects that he’s probably a pedophile or abusing someone out there – and she said he blocked her.

    A few other people also asked him that same thing, or they said as much in that Twitter thread. (I don’t know if he also blocked them or not.)

    They suspect that he’s trying to deflect from the seriousness of sex abuse because he’s probably guilty of it himself, or he’s covering for a friend he knows in a church who’s guilty of it.

    You do have to wonder about someone who is trying to diminish the seriousness of sex abuse in churches, AND doing so at the SAME time that Houston Chronicle is right now published a series of these exposes on the Southern Baptist church and their history of sex abuse cover ups.

    Like

  10. Seth blocking that woman who asked him a genuine question on his tweet is a red flag right there for me
    If Seth is in the habit of blocking people who disagree with him or to avoid having to answer key questions put to him, then he is a coward in my books
    Every single right wing fundamentalist Baptist Christian that I’ve ever come across in WordPress and Twitter, ALL believe in blocking and censoring comments they don’t like
    This makes them all pitiful cowards in my eyes and they are pushing an agenda within their secluded echo chamber bubble where they can say what they like and not have to deal with the consequences of their words
    It looks like Seth has just joined their ranks. ….they can dish it out but they can’t take it

    If Seth is so sure of his position doctrinally then he needs to face the inevitable backlash head on like a man, instead of hiding behind the power of “blocking and deleting comments ”

    Sorry but this is a real pet peeve of mine, and if anyone wishes to peruse my WordPress channel they will see I have a strict policy of NOT deleting any comment and I don’t block people EVEN if they are abusive

    Like

  11. He must be having an exhilarating last two days with all the feedback he’s been getting. With narcissists it doesn’t matter if it’s negative or positive attention…any attention thrills them.

    Yep. If you look at the terrible things that have happened to children in church, and this is your take, there is something deeply wrong.

    You have missed out in the comment title the word theologically.

    We didn’t miss it KAS. It’s still a terrible take. There is no corresponding comment about millstones ‘theologically’. Stop.

    Like

  12. isn’t he lacking in wisdom in bringing up women pastors in the same breath as condemning abusers in the pastorate? He’s not thought about the effect this can have on the watching world. The potential for this to be misunderstood.

    KAS, he knows exactly what he is doing and he is doing it on purpose. You are the only one who has misunderstood if you don’t see that.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. I have not read the comment thread yet.

    I was wondering, “Who in this world is Seth Dunn?” “Is he some one important in the visible c’hristian theological matrix?” “Must I listen and obey a Seth Dunn in order to be saved by me Savior?” “What or who in this world would post such a comment in their right frame of mind?”

    Can this Seth Dunn individual learn anything from a woman, or is he suffering from Nicolaitanitis? A common mental condition from not understanding the Scriptures in its original contextual writ.

    His analogy belongs in the manure pile.

    Like

  14. I think you avoid Christ’s church because you are at enmity with Him.
    — His Holiness Seth Dunn, directly from God’s Lips

    “If You Question What I Say To You
    YOU REBEL AGAINST THE FATHER, TOO!”
    — Steve Taylor, “I MANIPULATE”

    Liked by 1 person

  15. I was wondering, “Who in this world is Seth Dunn?”
    — Katy

    GAWD’s Anointed Channel on Earth of course, relaying GAWD’s pronouncements word-for-word.
    GAWD is SO lucky to have Seth Dunn, isn’t He?

    Like

  16. Woman gets on a podium and reads from the bible.

    Man walks into a child’s playroom as she is playing barbies and tells her to take her pants and panties off. She cries as he uses and sexually abuses her genitals.

    You know how you hated going to the doctor as a child because he was a strange man you did not trust, he was bothering with you, and you could not tell him; no. And sometimes he would jam a needle in your arm?

    Children who are being sexually abused feel a billion times worse than that. They are sick at their stomach and fret with dread hoping it never happens again. They rack their brains trying to figure out how they can get out of it. They know they are going to have to take their underwear off! And have an angry man four times their size do whatever he d*mn well pleases with their little bodies.

    Same thing in a comps man’s mind.

    I have never talked to a comp man who took any sexual abuse seriously. They are so misogynistic they have to minimize sexual abuse.

    KAS could not answer the simple question if a wife can tell her husband no to sex.
    KAS has condemned people for choosing not to get married. So we women should just sign up to be sex slaves.

    Doug Wilson fanboy, Bike Bubba, wants women to stay married to husbands who rape/sexually abuse them. He is a self-proclaimed comp.

    Comp men are so self-centered they know nothing about how it feels physically and emotionally to be sexually abused. They don’t care either. They talk as if they want sexual abuse victims to keep their mouths shut about it. That way the comp man can go around pretending he knows everything about it and can have the final say about it.

    Bike Bubba did not like what I was saying about sexual abuse, him, and Doug Wilson so he said I was not intelligent enough to have the conversation. I believe it was he who was not confident enough or brave enough to have the conversation. The man who sexually abused me did not like the things I said and wanted me to know it was my job to kiss his @ss because he was male and I was female. Oh, but he could say things I hated hearing.

    Comp men should not be allowed around children. When it comes to sexual abuse they are the dumbest of the dumb. And they have a creepy need to minimize sexual abuse and arrange for the sexual abuser to get everything he wants from his victim.

    I have been told by three different conservative Christian men that a woman consenting to sex outside of marriage is every bit as bad as a man raping a child. That is the garbage children trapped in Christianity has to live with every sad day of their miserable childhoods.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Who is G. Seth Dunn?

    Apparently, he is a CPA with a MDiv degree from New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary.

    Dunn is the author of e-book “The Cooperative Program and the Road to Serfdom: A Call for Southern Baptist Stewardship”.

    JD Hall wrote the foreword to Dunn’s book.

    Dunn writes in his 2nd edition preface of the “unceremonious dismissal of Conservative Resurgence hero Paige Patterson from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and what seems like an onslaught of progressive influence in the SBC..“

    Dunn also claims to write at the Pulpit & Pen blog and has his own recurring podcast (he provides a link at his Twitter account).

    He seems to be very perturbed over “progressive influence” and “gross financial mismanagement” at the SBC, but NOT apparently over rampant sexual abuse, despicable coverups and entrenched misogyny.

    Liked by 2 people

  18. JD Hall wrote the foreword to Dunn’s book.

    No kidding? JD Hall has been on my list for a number of things but it’s always interesting to see how incestuous these little patriarchy loving pastors/whatever Dunn is…truly are.

    Like

  19. necron48,
    I hear you.

    As for me, I sometimes do put people on mute or block them on my blog or on Twitter.

    I may or may not briefly debate them back and forth, but usually, I don’t like debating, as it’s not my personality type.

    I’ve tried to bow out gracefully in some debates and tell the other person we can just agree to disagree, but they won’t let it drop. I usually end up putting those types on block.

    I’ve also learned as I’ve grown older that there are some people whose views you cannot change, they are not interested in hearing a differing opinion, so I refuse to get into it with them.

    I do, however, seek out opinions that differ from my own. I like to follow Twitter accounts or visit blogs and sites that adhere to different opinions than mine, so I can understand what other people think. I just hate to argue with people.

    I have a non-confrontational personality, for the most part.

    I do sometimes tangle with some people (KAS on this blog is one example), but I normally try not to get into it.

    (Even with KAS, though, I went through a several month period where I ignored him and his posts and did not reply.)

    Like

  20. Lea said,

    We didn’t miss it KAS. It’s still a terrible take. There is no corresponding comment about millstones ‘theologically’. Stop.

    Guys like him place defending his religion and/or pet doctrines above everything else. It’s disturbing.

    And it’s what Jesus repeatedly challenged the Pharisees on.

    Paul also wrote of this in one of his epistles.

    I don’t remember Paul’s words verbatim, but the gist was, even if you do have great doctrine but you have no love, you are nothing but a clanging symbol – your theology ends up being a bunch of poo-poo because you are treating people horribly, acting as though doctrine takes precedence over how you treat people.
    And Jesus and Paul said “NO” to that.

    But guys like Seth Dunn and KAS place defending their doctrine above anything and everything else.

    Guys like Seth and KAS often also refuse to see that two Bible-believing, sincere, genuine believers in Jesus can read the same Bible yet arrive at a different, but also legitimate, interpretation.

    They act as though their interpretation is infallible and deem anyone who doesn’t share it as being a heretic.

    Like

  21. Post Script to KAS

    As to KAS wanting to defend Seth’s obnoxious Tweet or paint it in the best, more charitable light:

    Hey, KAS, you should see how Seth responds to people under that Tweet, and how he acted in the Tweets he made after that first one.

    Seth is rude, arrogant, sexist, and/or hateful towards anyone leaving him comments.

    It does not matter if they are polite to him or rude, he responds arrogantly.

    He does not want to hear from anyone or seriously consider their view or how he may have hurt or offended them.

    His follow-up behavior after that first tweet Julie Anne discussed in the original post here on this blog makes it clear what his true attitude is.

    So, stop with trying to give Seth the benefit of the doubt.
    He’s made it clear that he doesn’t deserve it.

    Like

  22. After one or two ladies told Seth in the thread that it’s attitudes / teachings like his that caused them to leave the Christian faith (or church?)…

    Seth Dunn shot back with comments like they really left church not because of guys like him, his arrogance, and/or his sexism,
    but because they are “at enmity with Christ,” and he referred to everyone leaving the faith as being “God haters,” or some such.

    (Get it? If you disagree with Seth’s particular doctrines or biblical interpretations, the only explanation can be you must be a “God hater,” not that you just find Seth’s attitudes abhorrent or disagree with his opinions. No, it must be because you hate God.)

    Here is one of Seth’s tweets (Link to Seth’s Tweet):

    I left him a few replies last night, including this one:

    Not everyone responding to you here is a “raging God hater.”
    They’re not upset b/c they “lack the peace of Christ” but by your insensitive, inaccurate analogy where “women preachers = sex offenders”
    That u may be pushing “God haters” even further away from God should concern you

    There are a handful of people who left him comments who did state they are atheists and some are ex-Christian ones.

    And it’s sad to see how he is pushing them even MORE away from Christianity, but he is too arrogant and stubborn to care.

    One atheist even left Seth a Tweet saying, “I moderate a large group of online atheists, that you for making our job easier.”

    Seriously, the best arguments against why a person should reject Christianity (or whatever religion, could be Islam or whatever) or reject theism often can be traced back to adherents of that particular faith.

    (Side note: this is true of atheism for me as well. I’ve seen how many atheists act towards people of faith, and I find it repellent, which is one reason of several I cannot become an atheist).

    Like

  23. Lea said to KAS,

    KAS, he knows exactly what he is doing and he is doing it on purpose. You are the only one who has misunderstood if you don’t see that.

    Absolutely. I said something similar above before I saw this comment by you.

    If you look at the rest of Seth’s timeline, and how he replied to people leaving him comments, he was arrogant and rude to anyone and everyone, even towards people who were very polite to him, and we know how KAS likes Tone Policing and insisting anyone with a grievance act only polite at all times.

    Well, Seth was having none of it. He was arrogant to even the genteel, refined commentators.
    He also went on to make a tweet or two after that initial one where he continued to act like an obnoxious jackass.

    But Seth must be defended no matter what, KAS thinks, because Seth is against women being preachers in church, and that is what really counts.
    They’re on the same theological team, so it doesn’t matter how awful Seth is, or even if maybe Seth is wrong about women being preachers.

    _Why Smart People Are Vulnerable to Putting Tribe Before Truth by D. Kahan_

    Like

  24. Comp men = Complimentarian men, i.e. a euphemism for patriarchy

    Men who espouse different, “complimentary” roles in life for men and women, based on their interpretation of scripture. Males are given the right to be leaders and have authority in numerous areas (church, family, work, etc.) but females are restricted from those roles, and are expected to be willingly subject to men’s actions and decisions.

    I don’t believe or endorse this view personally.

    Like

  25. I think you avoid Christ’s church because you are at enmity with Him.
    — His Holiness Seth Dunn, directly from God’s Lips

    Ever heard of DARVO?

    Like

  26. Males are given the right to be leaders and have authority in numerous areas (church, family, work, etc.) but females are restricted from those roles, and are expected to be willingly subject to men’s actions and decisions.

    AKA Men are the Penetrators, Women are the Penetrated.

    “PENETRATE! COLONIZE! CONQUER! PLANT!”
    — Cult Leader in Moscow, Idaho

    Like

  27. Comp men = Complimentarian men, i.e. a euphemism for patriarchy

    i.e. MALE SUPREMACISTS.

    “Jesus Loves ME
    This I Know;
    I’m a BOY
    That’s How It Rolls;
    All the Gurlz
    To ME Belong;
    They Are WEAK
    AND I! AM! STRONG!”

    Like

  28. Thank you Song of Joy and Christianity Hurts for those pearls of info regarding Seth Done. Appreciate your homework.

    Geminale said, “Seth, what does it feel like to be a whitewashed tomb?”

    Great comment! Is it possible Seth may qualify as a viper as well? His teeth/tongue/out of the heart the mouth speaks is sharper than virgin barbed wire.

    And how does he regard women in the Kingdom of God?

    Like

  29. And yet….having a female pastor is NOT a crime!!! Would he rather have his daughter sexually abused or listening to a woman teach? He would say the abuse is better. Sad.

    Like

  30. Cindy Brunson asked,

    Who is Seth Dunn and what is WRONG with him? He sounds like a misogynist. Is he So Bapt?

    Song of Joy replied with that information up-thread _here_

    From what I remember of reading the very long thread last night, I think he said he attends a Southern Baptist church, but he is not a member there.

    I will do a Google on his name and see what turns up. From page one:

    This was his Twitter account (after he posted the first obnoxious tweet about women pastors):

    Twitter is blowing up at me today. It is almost 100% outrage culture without one shred of a biblical argument or reason…just anger. There are a lot of baptists out there today with PR concerns over people who hated God yesterday and will hate him tommorow. Just be biblical.

    This info is on the Baptist News site:

    Jun 9, 2016 – Seth Dunn, a blogger and licensed CPA living in Cartersville, Ga., wants to eliminate the SBC Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, merge …

    He also writes for the awful “Pulpit and Pen” blog (he has his own author tag on there, no I did not click to read).

    I think this is his blog (unless there is more than one Seth Dunn in the world):
    _Seth Dunn A Christian Worldview_

    Like

  31. Oooh, I had forgotten about this.

    This looks to be the same Dunn who wrote a really obnoxious open letter to Beth Moore a year or more ago.
    Regardless how one believes about women teaching or preaching to men, Dunn goes way beyond that and is sexist, arrogant, and obnoxious when writing to or about women.

    Here is one person’s reply to Dunn about that Moore incident:
    _A Letter Back to Seth Dunn_

    Like

  32. I just found this on You Tube
    (I have not watched it yet, I’ve only read the first few text based screens of it):
    FBC Woodstock Member, Seth Dunn Fired from a teaching gig for his post on Ergun Caner

    – posted by a You Tube Account called “Muslim by Choice”

    If it’s true that Dunn was fired over a post – he sounds like he’s got problems. Not just based on that, but I mean in totality.

    Take it all together.
    A year ago Dunn wrote a sexist, arrogant open letter to Beth Moore, there’s this firing thing mentioned in that video, and his obnoxious tweet the other day, and his obnoxious replies to anyone who responded to him.

    IMO, either he has a screw loose, or he’s perpetually angry.
    He seems very angry at the world and at women in particular, and angry on a perpetual basis.
    I’m fine with people displaying anger once in awhile, or in face of obvious abuse recovery (that is understandable), but with this dude, it seems to be coming from another place.

    I wonder if he visits Incel forums too? They hate women in Incel groups, too. Incels complain about women all the time in their in-bred, online communities.

    Like

  33. “people who hated God yesterday and will hate him tommorow”

    It is so cowardly and childish when they try to get others to take the blame and heat for them. Baptist excel at this. I don’t know if anyone else does it.

    Everything is always God’s, the Devil’s, Jesus’s, the Bible’s, the Gospel’s, Women’s, or children’s fault. Maybe it is just YOU. Maybe YOU are just a bad selfish human being and it has nothing to do with Christianity or anyone else.

    Seth Dunn really hates women. It is not women’s fault he is not attractive.

    Like

  34. KAS, “You have missed out in the comment title the word theologically.”

    No, we didn’t. Even in comp. theology, the difference between putting a godly woman in the pulpit and putting a wolf in the pulpit is worlds apart, and equating the two shows exactly where Mr. Dunn is.

    In fact, the tone of his post suggests that he would RATHER put a sex offender in the pulpit, than a woman, and I think that is precisely why the SBC is under heavy scrutiny. They were doing exactly that!

    Like

  35. Ouch, and I read his letter to Beth Moore. He sounds very jealous that he is a male, went to seminary and yet a WOMAN is garnering more respect and attention than he thinks he deserves.

    Like

  36. @ Julie

    You need to write a little post warning people about James MacDonald. EVERYONE needs to know this creep will use child porn in his attempt for revenge.

    Like

  37. Some asked who these goof is. Well he attempted a grass roots campaign to seize the presidency of the southern baptist convention. His campaign blew a fuse when he couldn’t raise $500 for travel expenses and his nominator backed out (gee I wonder why). I mean everyone in the convention has to know that a young know it all that wants to shut down Lifeway is exactly what they need in there.

    He was also excommunicated from his church after years of informal church discipline (as they call it in wacky churches). He talked at length about that over at Pulpit & PIMP.

    Like

  38. Congratulations on the new look! I assume from the picture at the top the new motto is going to be ‘all we like sheep have gone astray’. 🙂

    Like

  39. Mark – When examining Dunn’s statement, beware of putting words in his mouth. He doesn’t believe women should excercise a pastoral/teaching ministry presumably over men, to do so is disobedience. He also says putting a sex offender into a pastorate is bad. Also disobedience. From the point of view of the bible, both are wrong.

    The next question is ‘is allowing women to teach and pastor as bad as hiring a wolf as pastor’? Which does more damage. This is where I think he has lost the plot. This isn’t comparing like with like. He should separate the two issues, and as I said was unwise to link them – hardly a defence of him by the way.

    You may be right he is more preoccupied with women in ministry than sex abusers, but you can’t tell that just from this tweet, and it would be wrong to assume in any event that he’s not bothered about abusers.

    You then read his piece and Pulpit and Pen, the go to place for kind, gracious, informed criticism of modern evangelicalism written by gentlemen and scholars. What you actually see there is an angry and unloving man. And appeals for money – I wonder if the Lord might be trying to tell them something there.

    ‘Speaking the truth in love …’ I almost never read P & P, even where their criticism is accuate and true it is almost never given in love. They have an attitude problem. I remember Hall doing a critique of Jory Micah, which was legitimate, but so harsh and unloving. At the end he said ‘Jory if you read this, you need to repent from what you are doing/saying’, but I thought by the time she has read his diatribe she quite rightly won’t be listening any more, even though the criticism was in itself valid.

    Like

  40. when he couldn’t raise $500 for travel expenses

    Bwah. I’m sorry, but this is just sad. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy, though!

    Like

  41. The sheep pic is the same one I’ve used on my Twitter acct. The name is @Defendthesheep. I took that pic on my way to physical therapy during my lawsuit and it’s pretty meaningful to me. I may bring the piano Sounding board pic back at some time, but it didn’t work with this blog theme. It was too blurry.

    Like

  42. Thanks, Katy.

    Can you please give me feedback on if you can read the font print OK? Is it dark or big enough? I switched Word Press theme because the other one was limited in certain features. This one had the best of the features I liked and was still free. (Yea!). I am limited in what I can change, but want to make sure you all can read it OK on your various devices.

    Like

  43. You are mostly graciously welcome Julie Anne. It will be my pleasure to give you some feedback according to the way in which our computer is set up, and since my knowledge of computers is that of a three year old, I’m not sure if the colors vary with different companies. So please consider this constructive criticism, likening it to the 4-H judging where we participants were given helpful comments to make us better (at least that was my experience/unfortunately not all kids have had those kind of judging experiences.)

    FREE is great! The sheep pic shows up great on my screen with stark contrast and draws the reader into the meat of your blog. The large print “Spiritual Sounding Board” shows up good here, with the letters showing black, not quite as black as the faces/feet of the Suffolk sheep, but still very blackish. Excellent contrast. Now this is where my screen gets a little “light” in the words, “-Finding resolve amidst the dissonance of “churchianity-“…..it shows a light grey color here and have to really focus on the words for my eyes to read. It’s an important sentence to distinguish the purpose of your site right off the bat, so maybe darkening those words would help? Unless my computer has been overexposed to the sunshine too much. 🙂

    And I personally, love, love, love the vibrant, cheerful blue backdrop with the words printed in white. Excellent contrast there which adds just the right amount of color for your own personal touch.

    Hope this helps some, and by all means, accept this with a “grain of salt.” I don’t have a degree in computers/computer science, or anything of the sort, but I do know my breeds of sheep and their individual characteristics! 🙂

    Your NEW LOOK really does give me a sense of peace in my heart.

    Liked by 1 person

  44. Seth Dunn really hates women. It is not women’s fault he is not attractive.

    If that’s the reason, Seth Dunn Needs To Grow Up. BAD.

    Like

  45. KAS, “Secondly, it is wrong to appoint a sex offender as a pastor. The NT says no to that as well (“fierce wolves”).”

    I don’t see why you’re calling me out for “putting words in his mouth”, when they were the same words you used.

    Like

  46. when he couldn’t raise $500 for travel expenses
    Bwah. I’m sorry, but this is just sad. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy, though!

    When I found that video I was sitting in a Roy Rodgers grabbing dinner and getting a bit of work done. I was not in the mood to be productive and started reading the twitter feed. Then I search for him and found that he has a MO of getting disciplined at churches, excommunicated and walked out by security. First Baptist of Woodstock had their security team remove him from the property despite the fact that he is a member there. I know the pastor there and Johnny Hunt does do that over nothing. I was afraid I would get kicked out of Roy’s as I just couldn’t stop laughing. I mean here is this guy that sees himself as the answer to all the Convention’s problems (there are a ton of them !) and he doesn’t have the $500 to travel to the Convention. Thus he starts a GO FUND me and only raises $200. TOO FUNNY. Since he plans to continue to seek the presidency of the SBC every year maybe we should sponsor the guy.

    Announcing….
    A Sounding Board COMEDY Project: Send Seth to the Convention
    This is your chance to sponsor the greatest entertainment the convention has ever seen.

    Another church in Georgia excommunicated him. Then his resume shows he keeps a CPA job 1-2 years or less before moving. He was teaching at Tennessee Temple University before it went bankrupt and they fired him too. He will make a great SBC president. Maybe CJ Mahaney can be his director of child security. His BUDDY JD HALL his official spokesmen.

    Liked by 1 person

  47. Mark – I’m not sure I was trying to call you out on anything!

    I would say though that missing out the word ‘theologically’ from Dunn’s quotation does make a difference. If he simply means from his perspective both women pastors and abusive pastors are both unbiblical, that strikes me as fair comment.

    To say he actually equates the two, which is what you get by missing out the word theologically, might be misrepresenting him. It would imply he thinks Mrs Pastor is itself a form of abuse. It’s important to direct criticism at what he actually said rather than putting a slant on it, or those needing to avoid or discern this brand of so-called pastor might think such criticism is prejudice.

    It seems to me the internet is littered with examples of believers of all shapes and sizes calling out others for errors in doctrine or practice whilst simultaneously being very public in their own disobedience to scripture. It’s hardly surprising that those who might very well need to make a major change in direction won’t listen to their critics in the light of this.

    Like

  48. If he simply means from his perspective both women pastors and abusive pastors are both unbiblical, that strikes me as fair comment.

    He linked them on purpose, he knew exactly what he was doing KAS.

    Like

  49. KAS,
    Theologically speaking, I don’t see any Scriptures pertaining to the “office of the pastor, minister, reverend, or any such “title” ” given the responsibility of lording it over others as Christ speaks of. There are functions within the Body of Jesus Christ, of which women are a major part of, but no entitled “offices” giving certain individuals power over the flock.

    Jesus said that His Ways are different, in contrast, in opposition to the world of His day, which is the very same “power over” structure we see in our day, different costumes, same heart….to have power over people, regardless of the mistranslations made by men in interpreting the Holy Scriptures to maintain their power over structure.

    To listen to a woman speaking the truth of the Gospel, is remarkably refreshing and uplifting, in stark contrast to the implied “abuse” that some speak of out of their own hearts to “be right” at all costs.

    To me, reading Seth Dunn’s comment strikes me at being overtly emotional, expressing the bitterness and anger that apparently is growing like mold within his heart. Perhaps he is angry that the kingdom he is building here on earth, is not growing and multiplying as he imagined, deceiving the sheep of Jesus Christ into giving him money, fame and glory so he can live a life of pure and unadulterated luxury (one of the signs of false gospels being preached to the masses).

    The word “theologically” was used on purpose by a man who deems himself credible within the visible religious system, which frankly is showing signs of insecurity and paranoia that someone other than themselves (for shame, women perhaps) is speaking truth on behalf of Jesus Christ, and actually living their lives for Jesus Christ, sharing the Gospel, teaching and leading both women and men, men and women/and children, into a saving relationship with their Master (Jesus).

    What in the world are men/well, whether mature or immature, afraid of? That their “male entitlement” will not be recognized by women who love and serve Jesus as their One and Only Teacher?

    So to “Whom” does the glory really belong too? Really.

    Liked by 1 person

  50. KAS, you’re the one putting words in his mouth. He said “just as bad”. That goes beyond simply saying that they’re both unbiblical. He’s saying that putting a Christian woman in the pulpit is “just as bad” as putting a known wolf in the pulpit.

    Even speaking from a complementarian background, no Christian I know would ever say it’s better to hear wisdom from a wolf whose desire is to destroy the church, than a woman who is known to be godly.

    Don’t try to sugar coat what he said. He’s continuing the Talmudic tradition, for example:

    “A [wealthy] matron [of the Rabbinic academy] asked Rabbi Eliezer: ‘Why is it that there was one sin committed with the golden calf, and yet [we learn that] three punishments were meted out?’

    [Rabbi Eliezer] said to her: ‘There is no wisdom in women other than the spinning wheel, as it is written: And all the women who were wise in heart spun with their hands (Exodus 35).’

    [Rabbi Eliezer’s] son, Hyrkenus, said to him, ‘Why could you not answer her with some words of Torah? [Because she has been insulted] I will lose 300 kor in donations from her every year!’

    [Rabbi Eliezer] said to him, ‘The words of Torah should burn rather than be taught to women.’”

    Like

  51. Julie Anne:

    I’ve got 2 tirades on that. Basically Dunn is quoting the previous entity in possession of the vatican – Bennedict. That was his response to the pedophile crisis – to compare women priest to pedophiles. Vatican SOP – PROMOTE the pedophile – EXCOMMUNICATE the woman.

    The response is based on 2 self gratifying Latin documents that I call – I has a dick. Therefore I is holy volumes 1 & 2.. They say that Jesus didn’t have any female disciples and that the Church didn’t have any female apostles.

    Both are false. What kind of deranged moron reads the Gospel and doesn’t note that Jesus women disciples GET MORE PRESS than the male ones? They just needed the symbolism of the 12 tribes of Israel to try to convert the Jews. Israel had at least one daughter as well. The number was actually 14 as they had 2 spares to replace Judas at Pentecost.

    The Acts of Apostles and Romans lists women apostles. St. Paul left married couples and women in charge of some of his churches.

    Like

Thanks for participating in the SSB community. Please be sure to leave a name/pseudonym (not "Anonymous"). Thx :)

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s