“God’s Design” – Headship, Helper, and an Answer We Already Knew

God’s Design, Headship, Complementarianism, Biblical Gender Roles

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Image: Pixabay

-by Kathi

This series is a review of God’s Design, a children’s book which teaches children about complementarity. For an introduction of the book, click here. All of the titles below (except for The Answer We Already Knew) are chapters in the book.

Today, children, we learn about God’s perfect design for man and woman. Oh, and remember how men and women are equal, but different? We’re totally equal. (sigh)

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Image: From Kathi – Florence, Italy

“God’s Design for Man”

Here we learn that the way God created Adam and Eve teaches us about how God created man and woman. Because God made Adam first, that means that he is the head over the woman. Because God made Adam first, that means that man has the special job of having authority and responsibility over woman. This is evident in that Adam had the special job of being responsible in making sure that the command for not eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was kept.

Great way to be responsible, Adam.

Adam also had the special job of naming all of the animals. This is significant because when you name something, you have headship or authority over it. Just like when a girl is born she has her father’s name because he has headship over her. Just like when a woman marries she takes her husband’s name because her husband now has headship over her.

The authors state that Paul confirms the pattern for male headship based upon creation in 1 Timothy 2: 12-13:

I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.  For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

…as well as 1 Corinthians 11:3

But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

I’m going to leave that there. My personal thought for reading scripture is that we cannot pull a verse out of the Bible without considering the historical context for which it was written. Let’s talk about how these verses are used to define headship in the comment section.

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Image: Pixabay

“God’s Design for Woman”

Now we are supposed to learn that woman has a special design. However, the authors continue to talk about the special job of man. Adam had his job of naming the animals and realized that none could help him to be fruitful and multiply. Is the implication here that since sex with animals is not fruitful, God made Eve? hmm

With Adam created first and given the job of headship (again with Adam’s importance), naturally Eve’s job is to be “helping, supporting and submitting to (or accepting)” Adam’s leadership.

This is our lot in life, women. We are designed to help, submit, and support the man that God places over us as our head. Isn’t that special?

“Men and Women are Equal”

How would you begin to explain marriage to a child? Here, the authors attempt to compare men and women to a peanut butter and jelly sandwich?? Yes, a peanut butter and jelly sandwich; both are different but equally important to make the sandwich. This analogy has led to so many questions. What if you’re allergic to peanut butter? What if you don’t like peanut butter, but prefer almond butter? Then there’s the jelly; what if I like jam? This analogy has only left me questioning the whole argument.

Just like peanut butter and jelly:

So the first man and the first woman were given different jobs to do, but they were created equal – equally important, equally valuable, and equally made in God’s image.

With the definitions above regarding God’s design for man and woman, I’m totally picking up on the “equal” vibe. How can anyone think that the authors truly believe that men and women are equal? The constant hammering in the fact that the man is leader and woman completes (complements) man is a dead give-away that we are totally different. The fact that men and women are both made in God’s image seems merely coincidental.

The Answer We Already Knew

When this series first started, the question came up if this book would address the doctrine of Eternal Subordination of the Son (ESS). There has been a lot of talk around the blogosphere lately of ESS. For those unfamiliar with the doctrine, the basic premise is that the relationship within the Trinity represents the relationship between men and women. When explaining this to children, it sounds like this:

Like the three persons of the Trinity, men and women are different from each other and have different jobs to do. Jesus, the Son of God, always obeys and submits to God the Father, even though the two are equal in power and glory. God the Father has a kind of headship over God the Son, but this doesn’t mean that the Son is any less important than the Father; they are equal.

Just like in God the Father’s relationship to the Son, the man has been given a kind of headship over the woman. We learn this from the Bible: “The head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God” (I Corinthians 11:3). Even though their relationship and roles are different, a man and woman are equal, and each is just as important as the other.

When I started this series, I had not read ahead in the book. But, knowing that this book comes from a group aligned with Desiring God, I expected ESS to makes it’s way into the hearts and minds of children.

Now, the follow-up question (from the “Men and Women are Equal” chapter) to ponder and discuss: “In many places around the world, women are not treated with the honor and respect they should have as creatures created in God’s image. Why is this? How should we respond?”

62 comments on ““God’s Design” – Headship, Helper, and an Answer We Already Knew

  1. Great way to be responsible, Adam.

    BWAH! And from that day forward, God realized that man should never be in charge of anything again.

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  2. I reject Paul’s writings in their entirety for precisely all the reasons that you have brought up in this article. ESS my ass. Either Jesus is God or he isn’t.

    And using the New Testament to subjugate women is no different from using the Old Testament to justify slavery. I’m getting really tired of religion at this point.

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  3. Dash, the Greek word translated “head” can also be translated as “source”. That does not imply ownership or authority. People that hold ESS want to make it appear that “headship” = “ownership”, and thus God:Jesus::Husband:Wife, in their minds creates this authority/submission relationship, where there really is none.

    It’s not surprising that the translation they choose (ESV) translates it “wife is her husband”, whereas virtually all other translations (NASB, NIV, KJV, NKJV) translate it “woman is man”.

    I think Paul is simply saying, just as mankind was created by Christ, and the woman created from man, Christ is begotten of the Father.

    Then, interestingly enough, he turns the analogy on its head: (11-12)

    “However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God.”

    Remember that the Greek has no word for “wife” or “husband”. If the authors want to be specific, they might use “his woman” or “her man”, but many of the instances where it is translated husband or wife, it is the translators’ opinions that get written rather than the literal meaning.

    The same happens with the word “angel” which simply means messenger. Our modern translators have decided that every church has a spiritual being which can receive letters (i.e. the “angel” of the church at … in Revelation) Or, perhaps, it could just mean a human messenger? I wonder if I write to the angel at my church if I might get a reply.

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  4. I think there is also a lot of reading into the Genesis account that one might do.

    For example, did Adam have the ability to procreate, or was he meant to be an eternal solitary caretaker of creation? Note that the command to be fruitful and multiply is given to man and woman.

    The ESS proponents always push authority into every relationship. You can’t have “partners” in a firm. There can only be one CEO. So, it’s no surprise that they see two humans and want to force an authority/submission relationship on them.

    That’s why it’s heresy. They cannot accept the fact that God has ONE WILL. Instead, they see three persons and they have to force a pecking order on those persons. That, of course, means that the Son and Holy Spirit must subject their wills to the Father, which is a logical fallacy. You cannot subject one will beneath itself. If there is subjection, there is disunity, and that disunity would require three wills, not one.

    Jesus as a human had two wills, the divine will and the human will, and thus it is not inconsistent for Jesus to say that he does the will of the Father.

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  5. My first real question when it came to the pb & j analogy was: What if I’m allergic to nuts?

    It’s a horrible analogy. We are, man and woman, HUMAN. Far more alike than different. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

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  6. My inability to tolerate ambiguity, antimony, and mystery in the bible is what led me into a fundamentalist church that ended up driving itself over a cliff. We usually demand “either/or” but have little patience for “both/and”, or “neither/nor.”

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  7. This IS another gospel. May it be anathema. My heart aches for the children who will be indoctrinated with this evil book. I expect that most will be unable to separate God, Christ, or the Bible from this twisted doctrine and when they come of age, they will abandon it all.

    Peanut butter and jelly. Does peanut butter rule over jelly? What an idiotic thing to teach children.

    “In many places around the world, women are not treated with the honor and respect they should have as creatures created in God’s image. Why is this? How should we respond?”

    Exactly, one of those places is inside of these authors’ own deceptive churches! And it is because of this very teaching, that men have the right to grasp for power and rule over women, their fellow heirs of the grace of life. We should respond by abandoning this garbage and turning to Christ.

    God help us. How many are going to live lives of suffering because of this?

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  8. This book will NOT be in front of my grand daughter’s eyes.

    How should we respond: Dear Mom and Dad……burn the book.

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  9. I don’t blame you, yet I think Paul’s letters get a bad rap. Personally I am done with what I call Amerchristianity, which is religious drivil.
    Yet this is how I naturally understand Paul without imput from religious ones. If you notice most, actually all of the harder verses are in the letters this in itself present the problem of we don’t know the recipients, their circumstances or responses or why they needed corrected, the other problem is one of hearing teachers interpret these verses for years over and over until we automatically interpret them the same way. As a child I first read them when I was eleven I had never heard them interpreted my first thought on 1 Timothy 1:12 was, “Oh that is a woman like so in so that is an insufferable know it all to her husband.” I never thought it was to all women it was harsh so I instinctively knew.

    Paul’s attitude in Philippians 4:1-3 was exemplary where he appeals, urges Euodia and Syntyche to agree he treats them with respect he doesn’t demand, he calls them his coworkers.

    In Hebrews 13:17 it says obey your leaders and submit to them, for they give watch over your souls. Reading that correctly means I know I don’t need to submit to any leader who is not keeping watch over my soul.

    The word to teach in 2 Timothy 1:2 in the Greek is to constantly teach in an know it all manner. Have authority over this greek word is only used once in the New Testament and means absolute sway over another. The classical Greek for that word is even more extreme meaning absolute authority to the point of murder. When something is read as a whole and your mind is pulling in from the rest of the word of God a couple or a few obscure verses shouldn’t get misread simply because we know elsewhere Paul’s treatment of women was not harsh so he was obviously talking about a certain woman or perhaps group of women in this letter, he didn’t name their names out of respect.

    These verses are misrepresented on purpose by people who want to do the very thing Paul was forbidding here that was to have absolute sway and constantly teach in a condescending way. In Corinthians Paul says women should not speak but stay silent before and after that verse he is writing about unknown tongues and the word speak in this particular verse is unknown tongues in the Greek. So the context and the greek word both go against what people say it means. Jesus said to his disciples not to take authority over one another, He didn’t mean there should be no authority he simply meant no one should lord it over others. Paul also says not to lord it over the flock you were given to care for.

    Paul was not forbidding good women to lead any more than Jesus was forbbiding any authority. I do not permit a certain wife to have murderous authority over her husband – the Greek for woman here is wife and man is husband.

    The great thing is taken this way these verses prevent abuse, sinse Paul was likely talking to an abusive woman. It can be flipped to teach the same thing to a abusive man.

    The following verses about childbirth and being saved thereby we’re to the same type of women. Paul was calling her a daughter of Eve and asking her to be humble, and to have children, he was obviously talking to someone capable of children. This can also be flipped to a man Iin this manner, have some humility you’re a son of Adam, who sinned second because he was enough of a pushover to listen to his wife when she was wrong. And be a dad raise those kids your salvation will work out in raising your kids.

    My thoughts. 🙂

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  10. “This is our lot in life, women. We are designed to help, submit, and support the man that God places over us as our head. Isn’t that special?”

    If, for the sake of argument, this is a reasonably accurate summary of why God created woman for man, what is so desperately wrong with it? Isn’t it enough, especially for Christian women? Why the discontent?

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  11. If, for the sake of argument, this is a reasonably accurate summary of why God created woman for man

    It isn’t.

    what is so desperately wrong with it?

    Because it treats women as not fully human, and heirs of god. Because some women never have a supposed god placed ‘head’. Newsflash, I have my own head. It’s on top of my shoulders and it works just fine.

    Isn’t it enough, especially for Christian women? Why the discontent?

    No, it absolutely is not enough. Christians are called to a lot of things. Look at people like Corrie Ten Boom. If she sat around and decided her only job in life was to do what some man told her, many people would have suffered. Many would have perished. She knew better than you do what being a Christian actually means.

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  12. KAS said

    “This is our lot in life, women. We are designed to help, submit, and support the man that God places over us as our head. Isn’t that special?”

    If, for the sake of argument, this is a reasonably accurate summary of why God created woman for man, what is so desperately wrong with it? Isn’t it enough, especially for Christian women? Why the discontent?

    Are you serious?

    You are so entrenched in patriarchy and sexism you cannot even spot it when it’s right in front of your face. It’s obvious why any thinking person (maybe especially a woman) would find those views offensive.

    By the way, the New Testament teaches that man and women are interdependent: not that women were “created for men.”

    (Certainly not how complementarians teach “created for…” i.e., women were not created for men to be their maids, cooks, sex objects, or slaves):

    In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.
    12 For just as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God
    1 Corinthians 11: 11,12

    That quote you cited approvingly, this one,

    “This is our lot in life, women. We are designed to help, submit, and support the man that God places over us as our head. Isn’t that special?”

    It’s like talking to a black American in 2016 and saying the following:
    ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~
    “But all those passages about slaves being respectful to their owners. Assuming that’s an accurate understanding about how God wants blacks to be – owned by whites and obedient to their white masters – why are you objecting to this?

    Why do you object to being treated as less than equal over your life due to a trait you cannot change? Why do you chaff at being treated like property and not a human being with the same opportunities given to white people?
    ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~
    Also, I’m over 40 and never married.

    Complementarianism does not speak to single women and has no idea what to do with single adults – whether they be divorced, never married, or widowed.

    Single women do not need male headship, male authority, or male leadership, ergo, neither do married ones.

    Gender complementarianism is akin to American racism against black people.

    The justifications used by white, American Christians to defend slavery in years past are the same / similar to those of Christian gender comps today who defend sexism (“complementarianism”).

    See also: Link:
    _Justifying Injustice with the Bible: Slavery_

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  13. Complementarianism does not speak to single women and has no idea what to do with single adults – whether they be divorced, never married, or widowed.

    Every time people bring this stuff I am going to start saying BOOM

    Corrie Ten, that is. Single. Never married. Obviously godly woman who god used for great good. Her sister too. This sexist idea that the only thing women are good for is propping up men is wrong. expletive deleted

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  14. One other observation I wanted to make about this (this is my second comment on this post):

    KAS said,

    <

    blockquote>“This is our lot in life, women. We are designed to help, submit, and support the man that God places over us as our head. Isn’t that special?”

    [Kas’ comment]:
    If, for the sake of argument, this is a reasonably accurate summary of why God created woman for man, what is so desperately wrong with it? Isn’t it enough, especially for Christian women? Why the discontent?/

    <

    blockquote> Back before I broke with complementarianism, I was an engaged woman.

    I was a complementarian who believed in that male headship garbage back when I was engaged to a man.

    Here is what I learned during my years of dating and engagement to my ex:
    One-sided support and one-sided submission does not work in real-life relationships.

    If a relationship is going to survive, it must be reciprocal.

    I did all the supporting, encouraging, etc., of and to my ex. My ex was a self-absorbed jerk. I gave, gave, gave, gave, and he was happy to take, take, take, take and did little giving (or about none).

    My ex never asked me how my day was, he showed no interest in my life, career, aspirations, dreams, fears, hopes, or hobbies.

    My ex never gave me encouragement when I was “down,” or being harassed at my old job, nor did he encourage me to grow and achieve and be a better me.

    I remember one phone call where my ex called me, told me his boss had given him some kind of “atta-boy” or pat on the back for some work-related performance of some sort.

    I recall sincerely telling the ex upon hearing his good news,
    “Oh honey, that is great news! How wonderful! I am so proud of you. I am glad your boss acknowledged your hard work.”

    There was stony silence from him after I finished speaking. I sensed something was wrong, and I asked him what was wrong.

    My ex paused and said I was not being flattering enough for him.

    He was expecting me to go “nut-so” and overboard with the, “Oh honey you’re the greatest guy ever!! Congrats on the raise,” type commentary.

    However, anytime I told my ex that I had gotten a raise at my job, or a magazine was going to publish MY work (or whatever accomplishment I told him about that I was excited about)…..
    My ex would go very quiet and not say a thing.

    He never said, “Job well done, girlfriend of mine,” or, “Oh, how great, let’s celebrate by me taking you to dinner.”

    Nope, no support or excitement from him for my life, my job, my whatever. He expected me to give him kudos (which I did), but he never gave me any.

    After several years of THAT behavior and treatment from him, I had enough and dumped him (among other reasons).

    If a woman is doing all to most of the supporting, propping up, helping, and/or encouraging in a relationship and the man is doing little to none of those things in return, the woman WILL get frustrated, hurt, resentful, fed up, and finally dump that user’s butt.

    What complementarians don’t want to accept is that all women (married and single) have needs too.

    Women have many (to probably most) of the same needs men have (for love, to receive recognition, confirmation, support, help, etc). It’s not as though women are robots who lack needs or who lack feelings.

    And if the man does not meet those needs, the woman will get fed up and leave eventually (or, if married, may be tempted to get those needs met by having an extra-marital affair).

    You can quote all the cherry-picked Bible verses at women all day long with your spin on them, about how you feel a woman’s “job” or God-designed “role” is to support or help the man she is with, but if she is not being supported in return by the man she is with, she will divorce or break up with that guy.

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  15. Oh, Daisy…I’m glad you got out of that relationship! That is wrong!

    One of my least favorite books and site is Emerson Eggerichs’ “Love and Respect.” Not that I’ve read any of his books (but have read articles on his site). I don’t have to based upon his premise alone. Because I haven’t read it, he may have some nuggets of wisdom, but the the premise of women need love and men need respect as the way to base a relationship is enough to let me know what he’s about. That’s plain b.s.! All men and women deserve and need love and respect. It doesn’t work specifically for one gender.

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  16. Curiously enough Doug Wilson not only is infamous for his patriarchy he also insists that the abolitionists were fighting against God’s order and that the antebellum South was a great Christian society!

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  17. In a discussion on sex with my mom she mentioned that if a wife finds her needs ignored, she’ll have roving eyes; somehow I don’t think the Driscolls out there will blame the husband for causing the wife to stumble!

    I’d think that women’s having needs would be common sense, and that an honest reading of the Bible indicates that husbands should acknowledge those needs — but things get glossed over if there’s an agenda!

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  18. In one of his books Rob Bell suggests Paul’s childbearing comment was a shot against the goddess Artemis, whose temple in Ephesus is one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. Ephesus had a high rate of childbirth mortality, and people sought protection with Artemis.

    I’m trying to move beyond Amerchristianity as well — any resources you’d recommend? (I’m reading From Every People and Nation, and I have The Next Evangelicalism.)

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  19. Daisy,
    Thank-you for speaking the truth concerning complimentary Christian relationships. That phrase is an oxymoron and has no place in the Body of Christ and your marriage to such a man (coward) would have been miserable.

    I won a national award in the field of agriculture, and all my husband could say for the two weeks following my sharing with him (I had kept the notification to myself for a week trying to decide how to break the news delicately to him) was, “Oh, you think you’re so special now” in that snotty, sarcastic tone of his. And at first, he refused to accompany me to the convention to showcase my work for the organization we both were involved with, but then softened so he could receive a free trip to another part of the U.S. where he has never been. He wasn’t happy or excited over my success, but rather tried to sabotage my work.

    And oh, did I mention he and his church are/preach/teach complementarianism? There is such a vast ministry field that is so needed in churches such as these to reassure women they are loved and valued by Jesus.

    Keep preachin’ it Daisy. God Bless you as you minister to me.

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  20. Katy and Daisy, You both have so much in common, yet on opposite ends of the challenge. Daisy, you are so blessed to have figured the whole thing out before the I do’s were said. It would have made it so much harder to drop the relationship. Katy, YOU deserve better!!!! I have been where you have stepped from stepfather to husband to divorce. I do not believe a one was a Christian. If another man comes into my life, he will be a sole-mate, walking by my side or nothing at all.

    America’s churches need a total make over. There are those that tirelessly go to different churches speaking truth and trying to open the eyes of those that preach the insanity of complementarianism, get a few on board and then another so called “church” pops up with different spins of ignorance an the Word of God.

    Lydia, if you are out there, I should be thanking you. As much as I didn’t want to hear what you had to say and responded poorly, your words did not fall on deaf ears or a hard heart…..at least not in the long term.

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  21. Thank-you Brenda, you are very kind. I am living proof that complementarian marriages are NOT a part of God’s design for His Ekklesia, I these false doctrines are the work of our enemy in brandishing heavy burdens upon our faith, upon our souls and upon our bodies.

    Another aspect of complementarianism is this…..during the annual meeting in the organization we belong too, the president made this comment after I concluded the resolution process, “You are possibly looking at the future president of this organization.” Upon cleaning up after the meeting, my husband and I drove home, with him yelling and screaming at me at the top of his lungs about me taking over “his spot.” It was a very, very long ten miles home of me clutching the side of my car door. Interestingly, I had never “tried” to earn a leadership position through networking or kissing up to the right people for that is not my nature, never has been for I find that quite deceitful. No one else was around to witness his anger in the car, so he can deny this incident. And in the end, due to his “COMPLIMENTARIAN” religious belief system, or should I say grandiose entitlement program, I resigned from my board position as my emotional/mental and physical well being was in jeopardy.

    To date, there has been no remorse, no conviction of sin, and no repentance on his part; another wicked characteristic of complementarianism. It is by God’s mercy and grace that I still have faith in Jesus. To me, the word ‘comp’ is a curse word by which man can use women, and perhaps this is why many of us cling to the Hope/Words of Christ.

    And just a little side bar for thought…..my comp. husband verbalizes that women should not be allowed to vote in the national election process. Ponder those words for a moment.

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  22. Katy – It makes me angry to hear how you’ve been treated. So much for comps rhetoric of how their doctrine makes a perfect marriage because men are supposed to love and honor their wives.

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  23. I listened to this story on my drive to work today:

    http://www.npr.org/2016/09/16/494070031/a-lightbulb-moment-all-her-practice-added-up-to-triumph

    It’s about a woman who as a child dealt with a learning disability. She married and had kids young because she felt incapable of working and wanted to hide her disability. When times got tough, her husband suggested she talk to a friend who managed a McDonald’s. She got a job making food but was then promoted to work the cash register. She was afraid to move forward because she knew she couldn’t count back change. Her husband brought home bills and coins, she got hamburger and fries boxes, and he played customer with her at home until she caught on how to count back change. She thanked him for opening her world. He told her that she did it all herself.

    I was pondering how comps could use this as an example of how a husband could build up his wife by cherishing her. But then I thought that along side comp doctrine come folks who say that he should have been working harder to provide for the family and she should have stayed home to raise the kids. The husband could have kept her at home relying fully upon him.

    In the end, this husband saw his wife as an equal member of the team and encouraged her to challenge herself and to build her self-esteem. I think it’s a beautiful example of when one person in a marriage is not deemed as “head” and the other as “submissive.” They worked together to keep their family and marriage going.

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  24. One of my least favorite books and site is Emerson Eggerichs’ “Love and Respect.” Not that I’ve read any of his books (but have read articles on his site). I don’t have to based upon his premise alone.

    Thankfully, Kathi, Nate Sparks has already done the hard and terrible work of reading Eggerichs’ book, and distilled it for those of us who have no stomach for such a task.

    https://natesparks130.com/2016/06/24/love-respect-and-abuse

    Because I haven’t read it, he may have some nuggets of wisdom, but the the premise of women need love and men need respect as the way to base a relationship is enough to let me know what he’s about.

    I’ve seen enough excerpts from “Love and Respect” in Nate’s post to make my own assessment. From what I figure, trying to find “nuggets of wisdom” in that book would be like looking for raisins in a manure pile. Sure, you might find one or two. But even if you manage to, is it really worth it?

    P.S. That analogy isn’t mine. Heard it regarding the writings of a certain space cult leader. I think it fits Eggerichs’ book just fine.

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  25. Serving Kids – Yes, I read Nate’s posts on Eggerich’s book. He did a great job. To me, reading the book is not worth trying to find the “raisins in a manure pile.”

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  26. I’ve seen enough excerpts from “Love and Respect” in Nate’s post to make my own assessment.

    From what I’ve read, I would not be at all surprised to find the man was abusive himself. If nothing else, I suspect he makes a terrible husband.

    Katy, Bless you! I hate to read how awful your husband has been.

    I truly feel that if a couple loves and respects each other in the proper Christian way submission is simply not an issue because they want the best for each other and will make mutual decisions with that in mind. Sometimes giving and sometimes taking when it is needed. That is my view at any rate.

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  27. Thank-you Lea and God Bless you too!

    Perhaps the false doctrines of dominionism/New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) teachings have impacted more churches than we are aware of. One of the first ‘conferences’ my husband was encouraged to attend with the other comps was Promise Keepers. The rotten fruits of what I call doctrines of demons have breeded a whole orchard of rotten fruits that stinks from here to kingdom come.

    I often ponder the thought of what exactly Eve’s role was after the fall. It would not surprise me that she had to do equal labor in raising food to feed her large family in bringing home the bacon!

    Interestingly, I am treated with kindness and respect by the men who work at the elevators in our community when hauling our crops for storage, far more than the church women who are married to farmers, yet have never stepped foot in the field, or a tractor for that matter…….more disgusting mold in the complementarian apple/fruits. And it’s funny how these women minister to me…NOT!

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  28. Kass, maybe being a great helpmate would work with the right husband, but I think the point here is what if it does not work? What if you are single? What if you are married to someone who takes advantage of that philosophy to abuse you? I would gladly let you have a try with my autistic husband.

    The complementation crowd puts all the responsibility for a marriage working out on the woman, while ironically says the man is the leader. What do you do when you cannot do anything?

    Liked by 1 person

  29. Katy, I’m so sorry to hear your (ex?) husband was such an unsupportive louse. 😦

    For the first part of my relationship with my ex fiance, I couldn’t figure out why he didn’t get excited for me when I won awards or get raises at my job or whatever. Looking back, all I can deduce now is that it was maybe self-absorption combined with jealousy on his part.

    Thank you Brenda and Kathi for your comments.

    Complementarians can keep spinning their horrible gender teachings all they like, but in the real world, their views do not work.

    Liked by 2 people

  30. Katy you said,

    No one else was around to witness his anger in the car, so he can deny this incident.

    I don’t know if this would apply to your husband or not, but you may want to read this book
    (you can read a few chapters for free on Google books at this link I’m giving you):

    _The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans_ (on Google Books)

    I have a big sister who is a verbal abuser.

    One of the key characteristics of a verbal abuser is that they hardly ever (or never) will pull this stuff – the yelling, name calling, gas lighting or whatever – on you in front of others.

    Verbal abusers only let their true side, their abusive, mean side, show when there are no eye witnesses. They will usually not yell at you or put you down if there are other people in the room or within ear-shot.

    I read that book, The Verbally Abusive Relationship, several months back, and I’d say about 90% of what the author discusses in it describes my big sister perfectly. If your husband is anything like my sister, if you read that book, you may find yourself thinking,
    “This sounds just like my husband!!! I recognize this behavior the author is talking about, he does that to me all the time….”

    Even if you cannot leave your verbal abuser family member (whether it’s a husband, or sibling, as in my case), it still kind of helps to read that other people have gone through the same thing.

    Like

  31. I am so sad to read of the ways complementarian men have brutalized their wives’ spirits. This is so obviously not of God! I’ve come to feel that the men who hold this view are damaged men, pitiful, pathetic men whose ability to love was crushed their early lives, men who would not be able to hold the marriage together without their wives being obligated by their religion to stay with them.

    I like the article on submission you posted, Irene, though I think he could have gone a bit further, there is a lot of wisdom there. This rings true to me:

    However, as much as marriage is a holy institution before God, so an abusive marriage is an unholy abomination before God. To take a holy thing that belongs to God and use it to hurt or control others is to make it into an abomination.

    …When marriage, which is meant to be joyful and loving, becomes a cover for cruelty and abuse, it has become a curse to the children and the Church, and a stench to the Lord.

    How can anyone imagine that God would hate divorce more than this ongoing situation of spirit-destroying cruelty? Only the cruel would see God as such; they think he is just like them. No, God is love.

    Liked by 2 people

  32. “How can anyone imagine that God would hate divorce more than this ongoing situation of spirit-destroying cruelty?”.

    Exactly.

    And the most disturbing part is that there are salaried religious professionals teaching just that.

    Maybe that’s the ‘false teacher red flag’?

    How could someone presume to teach for the Lord and yet get HIM so wrong? (He IS love)

    Like

  33. “Lydia, if you are out there, I should be thanking you. As much as I didn’t want to hear what you had to say and responded poorly, your words did not fall on deaf ears or a hard heart…..at least not in the long term.”

    Thank you for that encouragement! My desire is for people to value themselves and others These days that value is taught as a sin for women and the abused.

    Like

  34. Katy, Bravo on your awards, so sickening to hear how your manchild treated you. Love your voice & heart.

    SKIJ & Kathi, Emerson was my pastor, Nate detailed my story in part 4 on his critique on Love & respect. Trigger warning. Gail aka gm370

    Like

  35. I wanted to post about this last night but forgot!
    My other observation about the complementarian view of marriage (and dating) not working in reality…

    If a relationship dynamic doesn’t work in a platonic friendship, it’s not going to work in a dating or marital relationship, either.

    IMO, marriage is basically a friendship at its core, with maybe more commitment (and some sex) in the mix.

    Most of us women here have had platonic friendships with women (and maybe a few men) that were “lop sided,” where we were doing all or most of the giving, nurturing and favors, but the friend in question seldom or never did those things in return for us.

    I attracted a lot of selfish or emotionally needy women friends from the time I was a teen all the way into my 40s.

    Many of these women (one of whom would include my big sister) expect me to listen to them complain about their frustrations or hurt in life all the time, but if I ever go to them wanting to be heard and receive empathy when I’m the one in a rough patch, they never have the time, and are not interested in supporting me.

    I’ve had lady co-workers take advantage of me on jobs, where they would cajole or guilt me into working their shift for them (or doing some other work related task for them they didn’t want to do), but when I was in a crunch period or wanted time off myself, they would not take my shift or help me.

    After weeks or years of being in a one-sided platonic friendship where you’re doing most or all the giving and the friend is doing none (or very little) to or for you, after some time, you will drop that friend from your life.

    I know I’ve done that – I’m more apt to do it more quickly now that I’m older. When I was younger, I would allow these lop-sided friendships to drag on much longer than I should have, partly because I naively hoped the friend would turn over a new leaf and address the imbalances.

    Anyway, I was angry, saddened, and resentful in these platonic friendships where I was doing my honest best to be giving and helpful to friends of mine, but they did not care to even try to meet my needs.
    I would eventually drop those friends from my life.

    The same principles and consequences applies to romantic relationships.

    What delusional universe are Christian gender complementarians living in that they think women will endure one-sided relationships in a marriage (or dating relationship) that they will not in platonic friendships?

    Women still have needs after they marry or are dating a guy. Their needs do not magically vanish once they are in a romantic relationship.

    God did not program women to be boundless, ever-giving robots in a relationship who cease having needs of their own.

    If comps think women are that way due to a mistaken interpretation of the phrase “help meet” from the KJV in Genesis, they need to get a clue bat over the head in how women are in real life, not how they think or assume women “should” be.

    Anyway…. If I am not going to put up with being used by a woman friend in a platonic buddy role, I’m sure as heck not going to take it from a husband (if I marry). I didn’t put up with it from my ex fiance’.

    Liked by 1 person

  36. I see KAS is offering her ‘women should be content to be in a subservient role’ bullshit (sorry, Kathi, but that’s what it IS) on this thread.

    Here’s what really bothers me about the whole thing: She is a counsellor. Assumed to be a professional.

    Counselling WOMEN.

    Let that sink in a moment, folks. Then imagine her ‘godly’ advice to women who go looking for direction and insightful commentary on problematic (and perhaps threatening) situations in their lives. 😦

    Like

  37. @SeekerOfTruthWeb:

    Curiously enough Doug Wilson not only is infamous for his patriarchy he also insists that the abolitionists were fighting against God’s order and that the antebellum South was a great Christian society!

    One question whose answer says it all:
    What color is Doug Wilson’s skin?

    Like

  38. @Daisy:

    One of the key characteristics of a verbal abuser is that they hardly ever (or never) will pull this stuff – the yelling, name calling, gas lighting or whatever – on you in front of others.

    Verbal abusers only let their true side, their abusive, mean side, show when there are no eye witnesses. They will usually not yell at you or put you down if there are other people in the room or within ear-shot.

    I have seen an abuser click the abuse into innocent politeness whenever a third party came around. Like flipping a light switch — CLICK ON! CLICK OFF! CLICK ON! CLICK OFF!

    “Go ahead and squeal, Tattle-Tale! Nobody will EVER believe you! Because you’re the Crazy Kid and I’m the Sweet Little Angel!”

    Like

  39. @Diasy:

    Most of us women here have had platonic friendships with women (and maybe a few men) that were “lop sided,” where we were doing all or most of the giving, nurturing and favors, but the friend in question seldom or never did those things in return for us.

    It’s called A Give-and-Take Relationship:
    You do all the Giving and they do all the Taking.

    Like

  40. My granddaughter came home from church (at 12 years of age) saying that they were told in Sunday School that all girls need to submit to all boys. I don’t know what was actually said but that was how she heard it and she was not impressed. Now (at 14) she’s already expressing that she wants to be a “done” which breaks my heart. Why couldn’t those teachers have used that same time slot and energy to impress the kids with how much Jesus loves them???

    Like

  41. My granddaughter came home from church (at 12 years of age) saying that they were told in Sunday School that all girls need to submit to all boys. I don’t know what was actually said but that was how she heard it and she was not impressed. Now (at 14) she’s already expressing that she wants to be a “done” which breaks my heart.

    That is so sad!!!

    And anyone who tells a 12 year old to submit to another 12 year old is a fool and should be disqualified from teaching anyone.

    Like

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