Review of Children’s Book,”God’s Design” – Examples of Complementarian Manhood and More Doublespeak

Complementarian, Egalitarian, Teaching Children, Children Desiring God, John Piper


Paul & Jesus: Examples of Complementarian Manhood

boy-509488_1280

African boy – Image from Pixabay

-by Kathi

This series is a review of God’s Design, a children’s book which teaches children about complementarity. For an introduction of the book, click here. All of the underlined subtitles below are chapters from the book.

Today, boy children will learn about biblical complementarian manhood from two godly examples that were not even married. Girls, it would be wise for you to listen up, too, so you are aware of what husband material godly manhood looks like.

Paul, an Example of Manhood

When you think of a good example of manhood in the Bible, who do you think of? There are plenty in there – David, Joseph, Joshua, Daniel….of course, Paul! The authors tell us that Paul was an example of godly manhood because he was “a brave and courageous missionary who spent his life leading, protecting, and providing for the needs of Christians in churches spread out across the known world.” Paul passes the headship in marriage test by showing his headship as an apostle.

Paul seems to have all of the right qualities of a godly complementarian man:

  • He worked hard.
  • He worked independent of the churches to earn his money – as opposed to those pastors employed at comp churches?
  • He suffered.
  • He traveled.
  • He taught and protected churches from false teachers.
  • He wasn’t afraid to die.
  • He was self-disciplined and was not lazy.

The authors exhort boys to, “live like Paul, and you will know what it means to live as a godly man!” But here’s my question:  what if a man who possesses these very good qualities listed is neither married nor in a leadership position in a church? To whom does this man exercise his God-ordained headship? It would seem that this single man might not be living up to his full God-designed potential.

Jesus, the Perfect Example of Manhood

Who better to be an example of a godly man than the son of God himself? But, I hope you’re asking yourself, isn’t Jesus an example to all Believers? Why, of course he is:

Both boys and girls should try to become more like Jesus, but boys have a special example to follow in Jesus for learning God’s design for men.

What “special example” does Jesus give boys? Jesus was tough and strong but also kind and gentle. That’s it.

I’m sorry, but this “special example” for boys only is pure bunk. It was PAUL who tells all Believers:

Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit,if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

Who, being in very nature God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
    rather, he made himself nothing
    by taking the very nature of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    by becoming obedient to death—
     even death on a cross!

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,
    that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father. – Philippians 2: 1-11 (NIV)

Wrong Thinking About Manhood

After all of this talk about being a tough man, we are now told that manhood is not about being tough, showing off or being rebellious. I guess defining tough is a bit tough. What we are told, though, is that men are to act “with self-control, faith, love, and sound speech.”

Older men are to be sober minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness…Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled. Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us. – Titus 2: 2, 6-8 (ESV)

We are also left in a quandary:

So does real manliness, being a truly godly man, mean that a man should always be nice, always agree with what others say, never upset anyone, and never take a stand or make a decision that others don’t agree with? No, this is being cowardly and a wimp. It is being a people-pleaser.

If a man is not always nice, is always right, gets upset with people and is making his position seem more important, I would think that would conflict with being sober minded, dignified and self-controlled. It sounds like you can’t win either way. Boys, I’m sorry, but this is one tough road for you!

43 comments on “Review of Children’s Book,”God’s Design” – Examples of Complementarian Manhood and More Doublespeak

  1. How can they point to Jesus as a special example for men only? He is God on the flesh, the same God we are told created both male AND female in his image. Sheesh.

    Desiring God just tried to do the same. Here’s my response to their misguided efforts: The Top 9 Attributes Every Woman Needs to Become a Godly Man – http://wp.me/p2EmLc-3Ie

    Liked by 2 people

  2. The only place I have seen people so incredibly obsessed with manhood is the fundamentalist & reformed circles within Christianity. That is also were I have seen some of the most effeminate, pansy boys. Some how these circles attract some of the weakest men I have ever been around. Sadly I have also seen the most domestic /spousal / child abuse in these same circles. I don’t believe that is a coincidence.

    Just a passing thought, I always thought the Vision forum folks attracted the biggest bunch sissy acting men ever . Something is wrong when adults are constantly dressing up in all these weird outfits and playing make believe like a child. Sometimes I think the weird focus on manhood is just playing a role too, when the reality is much different.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. What really bothers me about this book is that it is using the Bible to fit into their agenda. It’s supposed to be the other way around, right? Additionally, they are so focused on their agenda, they cannot see when they are using verses which contradict their own words.

    Liked by 3 people

  4. This sentence sums it up: “Both boys and girls should try to become more like Jesus, but boys have a special example to follow in Jesus for learning God’s design for men.”

    Yes, sure; boys and girls are both special in God’s eyes, boys more so than girls. Why don’t these writers just say it?

    So, if Jesus is boys’ example to follow to be men, then whom should girls follow to be women? Or does God not have a design for girls to become real women?

    Jesus is no fool, and He never twisted His own words or contradicted himself; it’s way more than I can say about these writers and their demented manhood fetish.

    As born again believers, we’re supposed to follow Jesus’ example in its totality and completeness…we’re not to find or squeeze out some obscure “design” somewhere that only fits this condescending point of view, as held by the writers, Piper, and all in that strange camp with its very strange unbiblical doctrines.

    Liked by 3 people

  5. They are just taking verses from the Bible and using them to promote their own ideas, even though those verses are not teaching what they are teaching.

    I see a huge problem with this chapter. They’ve given a checklist of superficial, arbitrary and subjective qualities that a woman is supposed to judge a man’s character and suitability for marriage by. I feel these guidelines are useless for a woman to judge whether a man would be a good or godly husband. I don’t think they would even be that useful for hiring an employee. The attributes they are listing are “doings” not “beings” and they cover a very small part of human experience. Travel? Willing to die? (who can judge that until the time comes?) Works hard? A vicious and cruel man may work very hard. No, a man may be very involved in church or what appears to be “God’s work” or whatever, and be a sociopath. In fact, I think giving girls/women a list like this one is likely to steer them right towards the kinds of sociopathic men who are all about outward appearances, those who are looking for positions of power and influence in the church, rather than about the inner character of a godly person.

    First of all, a girl should know that she deserves to look for a man she is attracted to and compatible with. Do you have similar interests and goals. This isn’t a business arrangement, it’s a marriage. After that, there are much better things to be aware of in choosing a mate.

    When I was dating my husband, I noted how he treated those who were weaker than him. I noted how he treated little children, his sisters, his mother, and whether he was kind to animals. I noted how he played games; how he won and how he lost. Was he fair and honest. I also noted how his father treated others, understanding that was his role model and might hold some clues. I knew from these types of observations that he was a good man that I could trust my heart to.

    I know too many women who have met their husbands at Bible college or church, men who seemed to fit the guidelines in this book, and who ended up in terrible marriages. I want to tell girls and women that they deserve to be happy in marriage and treated with respect.

    Like

  6. Kathi,

    I can’t wait! Feenk I’m gonna splode! You mean we have someone to follow too, someone special that the writers have chosen for us, and who’s going to turn us into “designed” women? How exciting! (This sarcasm is a heavy burden, but this book simply begs it.)

    Now I’m going to jump and down until you post that post.

    (Is it Mary?) (Sigh)

    Liked by 1 person

  7. I think one of the least taught verses where abuse exists’ is this verse.

    Eph. 5: 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.

    Christ not only love the church, he served the church,, nurturing us, willing to die for us,, The kind of awesome commitment that we husbands need to have for our spouses. The reward is phenomenal when we love our wives,, putting her needs ahead of my own. Though it feels as if my wife puts my needs ahead of hers.

    We can spin our ideologies all we want,, but when it comes to abuse,, (and most of us on this have endured it),, what is lacking in the Abusers heart is love and decency.

    The passage below is one that young lovers should meditate on before they even get married,, to see if they are willing to submit to each other,, and for those of us already married we should be embracing.

    Ephesians 5:22-33 New International Version (NIV)

    22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

    25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body.

    31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[b] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

    Like

  8. Boston Lady – LOL! You crack me up! I don’t want to spoil the anticipation….I am sure, though, that there will be more “instruction” for the girls than the boys. That seems to be the pattern so far.

    Like

  9. Boston Lady — you mentioned these people having a “manhood fetish” — you hit the nail on the head! It reminds me so much of my former pastor. Every time he would say the word “man” or “men” there would be a certain inflection in his voice, like he really enjoyed saying the word. “MEN!” he would thunder. A bit creepy.

    How can these people deny the fact that they elevate men above women and children? They need to dump their (literally) man-centered religion, and get acquainted with Son of Man.

    Liked by 1 person

  10. Kathi said:

    Boston Lady – We’ll get to the girl’s “godly example of womanhood” in the next post!

    I’ll make an early guess that their godly example for girls turns out to be 1950s sit com TV character June Cleaver – who is not in the Bible.

    Amazing that they would teach Christian girls that Jesus is NOT to be their example, which is what they are doing by saying that Jesus is a “more special example” for boys than he is for girls – the Bible does NOT teach that at all.

    They are inventing un-biblical garbage to prop up their beliefs. Then complementarians have the audacity to say that “Christian feminists” don’t follow the Bible or take the Bible seriously.

    Regarding this bit:

    So does real manliness, being a truly godly man, mean that a man should always be nice, always agree with what others say, never upset anyone, and never take a stand or make a decision that others don’t agree with? No, this is being cowardly and a wimp. It is being a people-pleaser.

    “People pleasing” is another term that largely means the same thing as “codependency.”

    As I explain on my ‘Miss Daisy Blog,’ gender complementarianism is Christian endorsed codependency for women:
    Christian Gender Complementarianism is Christian-Endorsed Codependency for Women (And That’s Not A Good Thing)

    Ironically, complementarians are coaching boys to avoid codependency, but most versions and models of complementarianism I have seen (and that I was taught by my own family growing up) encouraged me (a female) to be codependent (and I was taught that being a doormat was “godly”).

    This comment from this comp kiddie book is similar to what secular culture promotes and shows that gender comps are NOT counter cultural, as they often claim to be.

    Secular culture (via entertainment, schooling, parents etc) encourages boys and men to be assertive, independent, and brave…
    But it teaches girls and women to be codependent (which encompasses the opposite traits boys are encouraged to have, e.g., be passive, meek, quiet, deferential, dependent on others, conflict avoidant, or passive aggressive, etc)

    Like

  11. “Other Mark” reporting – This is so relevant today in so many ways:

    Matt 11:16-19 “But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children, and say, ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’ For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon!’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.”

    Most appropriately to this conversation, Jesus is referring to himself in female terms – he is wisdom personified (note: HER deeds), and in Proverbs, wisdom is always personified as a woman.

    But, also, I think the rest is appropriate, too. Non-leading men are in the same situation as women, and as Jesus was. The leading men of the day, the Pharisees, had everyone walking on eggshells. They made up excuses for why this man or that man wasn’t worthy of being heard.

    I see echoes of that today. Men must be humble and meek, and that means, for non-leaders, that they must never raise their voices or demand attention or claim any sort of theological understanding… that is unless they are leaders, in which case Moses was a meek man, and certainly he did all of the above. Men must be submissive to authority, unless they are leaders, in which case they have a direct line to Christ and submit to none other…

    Ultimately, it is about manipulation and control. If a large portion of the population becomes convinced that they are inferior in all these ways, and that the leaders are superior, then the leaders have complete free reign to do whatever they want. They have no accountability in themselves, since no inferior will trust himself to make that charge, and in the same way, the inferiors will not trust their own judgment when they are told that they are sinning (even when they are not).

    Like

  12. Daisy, they are teaching everyone to be codependent. Those who are extremely gifted, or those who are essentially narcissistic end up going to seminary or leadership classes where they are welcomed into the leadership caste and there is a lot of deprogramming on the codependency.

    Like

  13. Boston Lady wrote: “This sentence sums it up: “Both boys and girls should try to become more like Jesus, but boys have a special example to follow in Jesus for learning God’s design for men.”
    Yes, sure; boys and girls are both special in God’s eyes, boys more so than girls. Why don’t these writers just say it?
    So, if Jesus is boys’ example to follow to be men, then whom should girls follow to be women? Or does God not have a design for girls to become real women?”

    Apparently, they think God doesn’t really have a design for women. We’re just supposed to be obedient chattel. Only men truly matter.
    Whom should girls follow? I vote for Jael!!

    Paul and Jesus, perfect examples of manhood …… and to the best of our knowledge, both were bachelors.

    Like

  14. Nancy2 – Hooray for Jael! She is one of my favorite women in the Bible.

    Shy1 – I’m glad I’m not the only one who has noticed this. Maybe I’m not crazy after all! Let me guess — are you a former IFB? Before we left, it got to the point that the song leader couldn’t even ask the congregation to sing the Christmas carol “Good Christian Men Rejoice” without emphasizing the word “men” and making remarks about male leadership. I wish I were kidding!

    “The Other Mark” – You bring up some really interesting points. I think it’s in one of the epistles where Paul also describes himself in feminine terms when he describes how he treated new believers: “we were gentle among you, as a nurse cherisheth her children . . .” It brings up the imagery of a breast-feeding mother caring for her infant. I also totally agree with your comments about the caste system between males in leadership and non-leadership males. I think that this could be very confusing, especially to boys and teenage males. On one hand, being fed all this rhetoric about being manly men leaders, and on the other hand being told to submit to and obey authority unquestioningly. This comp teaching has got to be just as unhealthy for males as it is for females, albeit in different ways.

    Like

  15. @The Wary Witness,

    Not only do the authors (and their unbiblical belief system; that’s from there they get their poison) elevate (certain) men above its fellow human beings, they also elevate men above the triune God, and that is the scariest thing of all…the man-centered religion that it is (their religion is built upon the false ideologies of mere men, but to THAT they would never admit).

    Dump their man-centered religion? (I agree!) But that they won’t do, as that would cut them from their money tree; also, that decision would cut them from people who think FOR them. They need our prayers, actually (no sarcasm this time).

    Like

  16. ! You mean we have someone to follow too, someone special that the writers have chosen for us, and who’s going to turn us into “designed” women? How exciting!

    (Is it Mary?) (Sigh)

    Well, I’m pretty sure it’s not Deborah. Or Huldah. Or Junia. Or…

    Like

  17. Mark – Great observations re: the hierarchy among men! I always thought that Driscoll was an equal opportunity person when it came to demeaning genders. While he was vulgar and disgusting toward women, he was demeaning toward men who were not “manly men.” I have always had the feeling that men below the top level were never manly enough for anyone in this crowd.

    Like

  18. Oh the women of the Bible! Each a unique person and so interesting. Who will be our special example??? Since Deborah and Jael a few others have already been mentioned… how about:
    Sarah, so beautiful and glamorous that she turned heads and attracted men’s attention wherever she and Abraham traveled…
    Abigail, who ignored her wretched husband’s wishes and ended up saving a lot of people’s lives and got a new husband too
    Anna, the wise prophetess who didn’t have a husband for most of her life
    Lydia, the devout believer and successful business woman
    Mary and Martha who were Jesus’ friends and spoke to him about their opinions

    Thank the Lord there is no “cookie cutter” woman in the Bible.

    Like

  19. @Kathi:

    While he was vulgar and disgusting toward women, he was demeaning toward men who were not “manly men.” I have always had the feeling that men below the top level were never manly enough for anyone in this crowd.

    The first time I ever heard the word “Hypermasculinity” was in the 1943 OSS psychological profile of a control freak cult leader named Adolf Hitler. As defined in the profile, it fit the comp “manly men” almost perfectly.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. @Scott1253:

    The only place I have seen people so incredibly obsessed with manhood is the fundamentalist & reformed circles within Christianity. That is also were I have seen some of the most effeminate, pansy boys.

    The word we used in my grade/middle school in the 1960s was “faggy”.

    Some how these circles attract some of the weakest men I have ever been around. Sadly I have also seen the most domestic /spousal / child abuse in these same circles. I don’t believe that is a coincidence.

    Hypermasculinity usually expresses itself in power trips, violence, and getting laid as much as possible. These guys have to keep proving to themselves that they are Real Manly Men by slapping women around (and weaker men, too). “ME MAN! RAWR!”

    Just a passing thought, I always thought the Vision forum folks attracted the biggest bunch sissy acting men ever . Something is wrong when adults are constantly dressing up in all these weird outfits and playing make believe like a child. Sometimes I think the weird focus on manhood is just playing a role too, when the reality is much different.

    As someone with experience in Gaming, Furry Fandom, Bronydom, and the Anime crossovers from all three, I have seen a lot of LARPing, fursuiting, and cosplay. (Though usually done by those much younger than the VF folks.) What always burned me about Douggie ESQUIRE and his VF Inner Ring was they were doing all this obsessive LARPing and Cosplaying but refused to ever admit to it. (And their choice of cosplay subject said a lot — cosplayers usually cosplay their fictional heroes.)

    Like

  21. Song of Joy –

    Perhaps the examples include one of the five women attributed in Jesus’ genealogy….

    Tamar, the woman who disguised herself as a prostitute to hold Judah accountable to his duty under law. Or Rahab, the prostitute who helped the Israelite spies and was brought into the Israelite family by marrying Salmon. Or Ruth, who along with Naomi. took matters into her own hands and laid herself at the feet of Boaz declaring her intentions and insisting he do the right thing. Or Bathsheba who was unlawfully taken and sexually assaulted by the king. I would call it rape, how could she refuse? Which leaves us with Mary. Virgin, virtuous Mary.

    Who could it be?

    Like

  22. “Who could it be?”
    Kathi,
    I’m thinking they went with the Virgin Mary and Queen Esther ……..
    Or maybe the woman who washed Jesus feet with her hair?

    Like

  23. No, this is being cowardly and a wimp.

    Even though this book is obviously rubbish for girls (and mostly directed at them), this part makes me sad for the boys! I was reading this book on shame and the author said this is mostly what men struggle with – be a man, don’t show weakness, etc. and that it is damaging for them too. Anyone who has been around little boys knows they are sweet and vulnerable and can be sad too. To start this early and in church telling them they might be a ‘wimp’ is just awful.

    Jesus had so many kind qualities. And none of us should be cowardly where protecting mothers comes in. Teach this. Stop splitting it up!

    And I’m guessing the girl example is not Deborah or Mary sitting at Jesus feet instead of doing the dishes.

    Like

  24. I do think complementarianism or patriarchy is bad for men too, as someone above was mentioning.

    Author Custis-James mentions in interviews on these topics that complementarianism / patriarchy is stressful and unfair for most men too, because it creates a pyramid scheme, where only one guy (or very small number of guys) gets to be at the tippy top, and all other men are below, and women are below those 2nd tier guys.

    I do think in some ways complementarianism is more – I don’t know what the word is – more insistent? It’s more insistent that women act like doormats than it does men.

    To a point, yes, the Beta Males, who are under the Tippy Top Guys, are expected to bow down to the top guys, but overall, being passive and non-confrontational are qualities more associated with the female gender and more expected of women than they are men.

    Even in comp or patriarchy, women are discouraged from being assertive to any man, whether than man is a beta or alpha male, or a young boy or an older man.

    Even in secular culture (also in church culture), women who act the way men do, meaning, women who display the same traits which are considered normal or desirable in men (such as being out-spoken or assertive), are said to be “b_tches” and so on, but if a man displays those qualities, other men dub him “leader material” (and other positive accolades), and so forth.

    Like

  25. P.S. I said,

    Author Custis-James mentions in interviews on these topics that complementarianism / patriarchy is stressful and unfair for most men too, because it creates a pyramid scheme, where only one guy (or very small number of guys) gets to be at the tippy top, and all other men are below, and women are below those 2nd tier guys.
    I do think in some ways complementarianism is more – I don’t know what the word is – more insistent? It’s more insistent that women act like doormats than it does men.

    If you want to see this in a fictionalized format, tune in to watch a character named Negan on The Walking Dead (which comes on Sunday evenings on the AMC channel. The show contains violence and adult language).

    On this show, Negan is “top dog” and emasculates all other men. So far, I’ve not seen Negan be sexist towards women. He doesn’t really humiliate women the way he does men, though he will threaten some women if they’ve violated some rule or whatever.

    (In some ways, the Negan character may be more fair or respectful to women than Christian complemetarians are, and the guy is a smug, violent creep! Negan does allow women to be in charge of men at times (of some of the smaller groups), and if I understand the show right, he does not permit his men to rape women.)

    But this TV show very much depicts this Alpha Dog character (Negan) and how the ‘Beta Dogs’ are all the men below his rule.

    Like

  26. (Off Topic, part 1)
    I’ve read Nate Sparks’ recent post about Tullian (_the post_). Julie Anne, Tullian has visited your blog before – at least to read the thread you did about him.

    Based on the quotes and information from that post (at NS blog), Tullian sounds like a monumental, self-absorbed, creep. (I would like to use stronger language, but I am aware a lot of Christians read here.)

    Greedy. The guy sounds like a money grubbing weenie, too.

    Dude (Tullian T), I don’t know what web design firm you’re using or have been using in the past, but no website should cost $30k, (unless it’s for a huge mass retailer, like Sears or Amazon that gets a ton of visitors per day and has an e-commerce feature).

    But for a ministry site to announce your conferences or whatever? $30k??? Professionals might charge hundreds to a few thousand for a site design, but $30k?

    With whom have you been getting web design services in the past, that they charged 30k? And you actually paid them that amount???

    A simple but professional website can usually be produced starting at $2,500, plus basic Web hosting.
    …Hosting plans that include an e-commerce solution can be sourced for less than $1,000 per year. Many systems are simple enough for a non-developer to customize, but consider hiring a Web professional to set up your e-commerce site.
    Source

    Like

  27. (Off topic part 2)
    I notice some of Tullian’s victims (or most) are married women.

    I so wish Christians would give up on the BGR, Billy Graham Rule, which most often portrays UNMARRIED women as hussies who bop with married men.

    Most all the stories I read about Christians who Do The Deed are married and Do The Deed, cheat on their partner, with ANOTHER MARRIED PERSON.

    It’s not usually single women bopping married pastor dudes. It’s married dudes Doing It with married women. But single women get cast as the problem or as the temptresses.

    I have since finished reading the NS new page about Tullian (in the midst of composing this message), and based on what I read, Tullian sounds like a real dirt bag.

    I used to watch Tullian’s weekly show on TBN. He almost always talked about God’s grace on that show. Knowing what I know now, it sort of gives me the chills.

    I think this guy doesn’t really give a hoot about God or grace, he just views grace as a “get out of jail free” card, to keep sinning and preying on women, and he thinks other Christians have to just forgive him and let it go. I don’t think Grace means “no accountability in this life time.”

    I also think he just views Jesus as a way to make bank. He comes from a family of folks who are in the Christian Biz, so I guess he views selling Jesus and yakking about the Bible as nothing more than a career, a profession, a way to pay rent, buy cars, etc. That is my gut feeling and my impression.

    Like

  28. P.S. I said above,

    Julie Anne, Tullian has visited your blog before – at least to read the thread you did about him.

    Or, maybe that was your post (if you did any) about him on Facebook?

    I thought NS blog was referring to YOUR blog, but maybe Tullian was referring to your Facebook page (I think I recall you have a FB group??)

    Like

  29. Daisy, are you talking about the text in which Tullian calls me a bitch? If so, Tullian referenced a Warren Throckmorton article wherein I made mention of the phrase “clergy sex abuse” in a comment. Tullian is really annoyed with that phrase and you can see how he tries to skirt that key issue by belittling his victims, saying one of them had 3 affairs (she told me that is untrue today), etc. Me identifying Tullian as allegedly committing clergy sex abuse is what set him off to call me a bitch and to tell his Twitter groupie girls to go after me.

    Like

  30. Tullian is really annoyed with that phrase and you can see how he tries to skirt that key issue by belittling his victims, saying one of them had 3 affairs (she told me that is untrue today), etc

    Nate’s whole article was deeply disturbing and man did I recognize some things from a previous bad relationship.

    Men cheating on their wives are not generally trustworthy sources! I’m glad you got his dander up, because he really showed his true colors, didn’t he? This is one thing I am continually amazed to see on social media and other sources, how truly vicious some of these men who are supposed to be ‘pastors’ really are when you get down to it.

    Like

  31. @Daisy:

    To a point, yes, the Beta Males, who are under the Tippy Top Guys, are expected to bow down to the top guys, but overall, being passive and non-confrontational are qualities more associated with the female gender and more expected of women than they are men.

    Could you describe the Tippy Top Guys as “making a woman out of” the Beta Males?
    (“Making a woman out of him” is also prison slang for same-sex rape.)

    Like

  32. There are some very interesting points in this page at “Jesus Creed” blog, from a post by Giles (emphasis added by me) (taken from _Kevin Giles — The ETS Response to Grudem and Ware_):

    Before concluding I need to comment specifically on Dr Grudem’s claim in his Systematic Theology, page 251, that the eternal role subordination of the Son has been the church’s doctrine at least since the council of Nicaea in 325. This is simply not true.

    “Role subordination” is definitely not found in the 325 or 381 versions of the Nicene Creed as we can see from the quotation on our screen. The word “role” does not appear, nor any synonym, nor the idea.

    The very first person in history to speak of the role subordination of the Son was George Knight 111 in his 1977 seminal book, ‘The New Testament Teaching on the Role relationship of Men and Women’.

    It was he who first introduced the concept of the Son’s “role subordination” into Evangelical theological circles. It was not known before this time.

    Many theologians across the centuries have spoken of the “subordination of the Son” but none have spoken of the “role subordination of the Son or the Spirit” before Knight.

    To have done so before late nineteenth century is impossible because the French word “role” appeared first in English in 1875 to speak of the part an actor plays, and first in the sociological sense to refer to characteristic behavior in 1913.

    That page also raised a few other interesting points, but I didn’t want to make my post here longer than it already is.

    Like

  33. Julie Anne said,

    Daisy, are you talking about the text in which Tullian calls me a bitch? If so, Tullian referenced a Warren Throckmorton article wherein I made mention of the phrase “clergy sex abuse” in a comment.

    Tullian is really annoyed with that phrase and you can see how he tries to skirt that key issue by belittling his victims, saying one of them had 3 affairs (she told me that is untrue today), etc.

    Me identifying Tullian as allegedly committing clergy sex abuse is what set him off to call me a bitch and to tell his Twitter groupie girls to go after me.

    That must be it. I just saw that he was reacting to something you posted somewhere. I just got confused on exactly where he was reading your comments. (I bet he’s read your blog posts about him here on SSB.)

    Based on what I saw of him described on Nate Spark’s blog, Tullian is a player. He uses his Christian celebrity to entice women.

    He also was quoted as having said to one of his girlfriends in the Sparks post that he “only cares about money, I’m all about the money.” -Finally, a Christian celebrity who just puts it out there and plainly admits to it!

    I have reservations that Tullian is an actual Christian (I don’t think Mark Driscoll is one).

    It’s very gross how Tullian uses a distorted teaching of grace to basically fool himself or teach others a person claiming Christ can basically live any old way they want, and it’s all good, because Jesus already paid for it.

    After reading your and Nate’s information on the guy, I think Tullian is gross, and how he spoke of you is gross and wrong. Obviously, how he takes advantage of women and uses his pastoral or Christian celebrity position to exploit people is wrong too.

    I’m also terribly put off that he uses proxies to fight his battles for him online. Why don’t you, Tullian, visit sites under your own name (or, if you use a screen name, let us know it’s you posting), to make comments, instead of sending in your son or female fan groupies to fight on your behalf?

    Liked by 1 person

  34. HUG said,

    Could you describe the Tippy Top Guys as “making a woman out of” the Beta Males?
    (“Making a woman out of him” is also prison slang for same-sex rape.)

    That can be possible in some situations.

    On the TV show The Walking Dead, which I mentioned above, you can see this play out. It’s a good example of this stuff.

    The bad guy character on the show right now is named Negan, and he not only abuses and kills men, but he emasculates men as well.
    Negan humiliates the men he rules over – though there is nothing sexual about it. (He doesn’t literally sexually abuse them.)

    Negan will sometimes make sexual references to drive home what he’s doing, like in last week’s episode, after humiliating Rick Grimes in front of all his group at Alexandria, he makes Rick thank him for the harassment and humiliation.

    On his way out the door, Negan leans over and whispers to Rick, “I just put my [—] down your throat and pulled it out, and you thanked me for it.”
    -Not that Negan literally did anything sexual to or with Rick, it was a metaphor (or whatever the word is).

    The thing is, this sort of macho peacock strutting does NOT work on women.

    Negan can scare other women by threatening violence, which he does to a lady named Olivia. He threatens to shoot her if the missing guns don’t show up… which scares her.
    But the strutting macho routine he does to the men on the show – which psychologically paralyzes them into submission – does not work on women, not on the show (and it doesn’t work in real life).
    Women are not only turned off to obnoxious male preening and bullying such as what he does, but we see right through it, and most of us do not find it intimidating.

    Also, as women, we are already “emasculated” (by culture, I guess. Women are not expected to be tough manly man types) We’re already feminine, so someone like Negan and his games cannot emasculate what is already emasculated.

    I would not be surprised if when Negan gets his just desserts one day on the show if it comes at the hand of a woman on the show, not a man.

    The show has already dropped hints that the women are more disgusted by Negan than the men are, but they are not afraid of him as often or as strongly as the men are, so a woman may be the one to take care of Negan.
    Some of the women are already planning on how to take Negan out, while Rick has totally give up on that. Negan has Rick cowed, but not the women (Rosita, Maggie, and Michonne).

    Like

  35. Pingback: Review of Children’s Book, “God’s Design” -Examples of Godly Womanhood | Spiritual Sounding Board

  36. Pingback: Review of Children’s Book, “God’s Design” – Purity and Honoring God’s Design | Spiritual Sounding Board

Thanks for participating in the SSB community. Please be sure to leave a name/pseudonym (not "Anonymous"). Thx :)

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s