Doug Phillips: The Sex Abuse Lawsuit Conclusion and Epilogue of His Vision Forum Shipwreck

***

Doug Phillips Lawsuit, Lourdes Torres, Sex Abuse, Vision Forum, Spiritual Abuse

 


***

Doug Phillips, Vision Forum Screen Shot 2014-03-11 at 12.03.20 PM

It’s been a long while since there have been any updates on the Lourdes Torres vs Douglas Phillips lawsuit. Normally, I received updates from Attorney David C. Gibbs III, who represented Lourdes Torres. Either he would e-mail or text me, or I would inquire of him, and he or another attorney from his office would respond quickly.

Because of the influence Doug Phillips had in so many lives in the Christian Homeschool Movement, I’ve tried hard to get information from first-hand sources. Sadly, after several requests, I have not received any response from Attorney Gibbs’ office regarding recent updates on this case; however, Free Jinger, a website that hosts discussions on the culture, abuses, and key people in Christian fundamentalism, noted mid-May that the court case was dismissed:

 

***

 

I was also told by a couple of very reliable sources that the lawsuit was dismissed, settled out of court, and a gag order in place, so that would explain why we haven’t heard anything from Lourdes Torres or anyone.

I’m disappointed with the outcome of this case for a number of reasons. Although this case primarily concerned Doug Phillips’ inappropriate relationship and grooming of an underage teen, then using his position of authority as clergy, boss, and mentor to continue the relationship after she became an adult, it represented much more than that.

While Phillips’ ship has sunk, and the case has closed, it doesn’t really feel finished to me. Lourdes Torres was the sacrificial lamb who bravely spoke out about this clergy abuse. She helped to sink the ship of Doug Phillips’ ministry, Vision Forum, which had been a mainstay in the Christian homeschool community for many years. However, it feels like Phillips got away with harming much more than a Titanic-full of people. People who boarded his ship, expected a captain who would safely navigate them. They had no clue that he was going to cause a shipwreck.

One cannot say that this lawsuit only affected Lourdes Torres, Boerne Christian Assembly, and the Phillips family. As a result of Doug Phillips’ so-called ministry demise, some families have shattered and had difficulty picking up the pieces. Some have shipwrecked their faith. I read e-mails from divided spouses and families: one spouse wanted to discard the teachings of Phillips, while the other wanted to continue Phillips’ teachings. How does a family reconcile this kind of conflict?

While Doug Phillips and his family have now abandoned the idea of family-integrated churches (which he claimed was the right way to go to worship as a family), he and his family have joined a traditional church in Texas with segregated age groups (something he taught against). He also failed to abide by the church rules he helped establish when he founded the church, Boerne Christian Assembly.

In November of 2014, elders Jeff Horn and David Fry posted a note at the Boerne Christian Assembly website (which now doesn’t seem to exist) that Philips was excommunicated. Doug Phillips has done nothing to resolve that issue. No big deal for him, he just wiped his hands clean of his old life and is starting a new one with his family.

In closing the final chapter of Doug Phillips and his shipwrecked ministry, I thought it would be good to reflect on a couple of comments left here at SSB by two individuals during the height of the Doug Phillips scandal. I do not believe these two individuals have commented since that time, but they obviously had a need to share what they had gone through. Their personal stories about sex abuse and patriarchy represent real lives and most likely echo the experience of others.

 

I was sexually and spiritually abused by a spiritual leader in our church starting at age 13. Unless you have lived that experience, you cannot understand the anguish and struggle it is to be whole again with both God and self. The shame, the confusion, the lost innocence, losing the childlike faith you had in God and “Jesus loves me this I know” because you no longer “know”. S’s comments obviously show her own unhealed, bitter woundedness from her husband’s unfaithfulness, as it is a very selfish stance to ever blame the one under the control of a man of such age, authority, spiritual position and charm as DP (and my own abuser).

I was sucked into the Patriarchial [sic] mess 9 years ago when our state’s Christian homeschool conference changed from teaching us how to teach our children, to guilting us in how badly we were living as families of faith. In my own spiritual mess of striving to please God, as I was not yet whole from the abuse, I quickly fell for the charm, the smiling, happy-looking families, the mandate that to be right with God we must live their way. To have our children saved, faith-filled, strong in the Lord, we must live their way. To pass on the mantle of faithfulness that the world could not destroy in them or future generations, we must live their way–and of course, that meant buying and using what they sold.

For 3 1/2 years I wore skirts only. I finally convinced my husband to let us go to a FIC [family-integrated church]. We were all miserable, but that only meant that I was failing to “get it right”. Somehow, someway, I was missing the message. So much fear grew in me. My family, my children were not going to turn out right. I was failing them and failing God. Wow!! Exactly what my abuser had once told me, “Saying no to him was saying no to God and failing him was failing God.”

I just found out about all of this on Saturday when I came across the World magazine article on DP [Doug Phillips] someone posted on Facebook. Although we have been away from the FIC for 5 years and patriarchial [sic] thinking in general for 3, it was fresh salt to the wounds. I have thousands of $’s in materials from VF that have been sitting on shelves untouched because I have been so unsure, uncertain in what to believe. Today, I will box them up for the dump. I see freedom in my future. But for now, this is all so very painful.

Unless you have walked in any shoes similar to Victim, you CANNOT understand. To be sinned against in such a way, in the name of Jesus, is indescribable. I apologize for writing so much, but I do appreciate having a safe place to express these deep emotions. Thank you!

 

 

 

***

Longtime lurker as I’ve been sorting through extricating my family from this patriarchy culture. As a father of 4 daughters, reading what this sociopath has done makes me want to meet him in a dark alley and educate him in the usefulness of Israeli special forces training. And by this I completely mean I would kick his @#$. Your pushup regimen wouldn’t help one iota Doug.

All these patriarchy wimps can ‘pray’ for him and his wife, and try to sound holier than thou with their long-winded sophistry. Deep down they are still intimidated by him and wondering if he’ll rise like a phoenix. Better to not be too overt in their dismissal right? Quietly distance because ‘its the ‘Reformed Christianese’ way to handle it, right? Some are merely swooping in to fill the patriarchy vacuum and acquire the cash flow stream that was VF.

No. Real men kick @#$ when things are obvious. Real men protect and fight when needed. This is why Lourdes’ family chased this predator down the street after he jumps out her window. They are the real men. They don’t just ‘play’ one on stage or in self-aggrandizing ‘crockumentaries’. They ended it right then and there. Looking down the barrel of a gun. Real men. With fire in their betrayed eyes. No lifts in their cowboy boots needed, Doug.

Patriarchy puts the weight of the world via Old Testament manipulation on families, then runs to the New Testament for ‘forgiveness’ when the fruit of these doctrinal entrapments are shown in the light of day. It’s called EVIL doctrine. Wolves in sheep’s clothing. We’ll know a tree by its fruits. Their brand of ‘forgiveness’ is attempting to hide it (VF Board) to protect the cash cows (I mean ‘ministries’).

Equally culpable are the sycophants who equate Phillips with some kind of modern-day King David archetype – ‘well, he ‘fell’ but I still believe what he taught was Biblical’…are you kidding me?! This knee jerk quasi-biblical response is merely projection. They actually do (or did) view him as their king. Not Christ. Little doug fricking phillips.

They are that blind. *I* was that blind. Lock, stock and barrel. A one time conference speaker, leader in a well known ‘reformed’ church, the whole shootin’ match. Could smell the megalomania on Phillips from the first time I met him, but ignored my better judgement. Just wasn’t ‘reformed’ enough I told myself. Wrong. I was ignoring red flags because something inside me wanted to be in the ‘inner circle’ with these yahoos. That’s how a cult is designed – to make people deeply revere and subsequently want to become one of the leaders.

Strange brew because this cult is more like a network – almost like the tapes and seminar kingpins of Amway. Different leaders and power structures around the U.S. – all vying for paid speaking gigs at each other’s events. They are information and event marketers, pure and simple. These are not ministries. While small potatoes in the world of business, they still rake in hundreds of thousands a year – under the guise of 501c3 status. It’s profitable! And just like Gothard and every other deceived ‘celebrity’ minister turned information marketer – they believe their monetary ‘success’ is God’s blessing. God’s ‘approval’ on what they are doing in this world to ‘take dominion’ and reconstruct America in the vanity of their mind’s eye. And if *they have ‘God’s’ approval, who are you and I to question it? MenoGAWD syndrome in the worst sort of way.

But thank God for the Holy Spirit opening my eyes and getting my family out of this mess. We are truly free in Christ, led by the Holy Spirit and in relationship with a loving Father.

We’ll be reading about this ‘movement’ on wikipedia as another creepy anomaly history lesson in American Churchianity. Beware of future iterations of it however. The wolves have to eat until they stand before God for their duplicity.

 

 

If you were affected by Doug Phillips’ teachings on Patriarchy, the Homeschool Movement, Courtship, family-integrated churches, etc, and would like to leave an update on how you and your family are doing, I’d especially love to hear from you.

Oh, one more thing – – I checked out VisionForum.com to see if there was anything left of the site. It has changed [see updated note below]. I don’t think it is quite what Doug Phillips, Esq. had enVisioned . . . or not.

 

vision forum, doug phillips

visionforum.com

 

Edited to note:  Gary W. correctly pointed out that the Vision Forum website used the address: http://www.visionforumministries.org, not Vision Forum.com.  I’m going to leave the above photo posted because of the irony of a website named Vision Forum. To me, this aptly describes how Doug Phillips lived his life. He lived the high life, while gambling with people’s lives. ~ja

Update again:  Ok, the Vision Forum store/catalog which sold books and gender-specific toys did use the VisionForum.com site!!  The ministry used the http://www.visionforumministries.org site.

197 comments on “Doug Phillips: The Sex Abuse Lawsuit Conclusion and Epilogue of His Vision Forum Shipwreck

  1. “The sad thing is that where abuse really has taken place, and it does, it is obscured by the moaners and grumblers. Sometimes they are revilers and sinful in their reactions. Ungodly behavior cannot be countered with more ungodly behavior.”

    And therein lies the problem with your view which I tried to point out on another thread. You, and many others, want to be the arbiter of how negative truths are communicated. People like you are one of the reasons many victims don’t speak up. They are abused AGAIN for their communication delivery.

    It is also a tenant of spiritual abuse. I just don’t play that game anymore. The faux shaming doesn’t work with me.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. The sad thing is that where abuse really has taken place, and it does, it is obscured by the moaners and grumblers.

    Only because you and other like you refuse to listen to them. And then it’s all ‘oh how sad, they aren’t believed. Should have been nicer about talking about the person who abused hurt and betrayed them! Then maybe I would have listened’. Which is likely not true anyway, because what actually happens is that when someone tells their story meekly like they are ‘supposed’ to, they get ignored. And then they get louder and louder because they can’t take it anymore and that’s when they are finally heard, only to be told they are too ‘angry’. Of course they’re angry! They have been ignored and they have been righteous while the ones who were believed were evil.

    It is your attitude that needs to change here, if you can’t see the truth because of tone. Maybe you’re idea of who should be believed is wrong, in that case.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. I messed up my formatting in my post above. I didn’t mean for the whole bottom half to be in bold face!

    Kas said,

    The sad thing is that where abuse really has taken place, and it does, it is obscured by the moaners and grumblers. Sometimes they are revilers and sinful in their reactions. Ungodly behavior cannot be countered with more ungodly behavior

    You seem to be saying you refuse to really listen to people’s complaints if they express it in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable.

    That is a choice you are making.

    Please stop tone policing people. Stop telling them how to feel or how to express their feelings.

    I told you on some other thread (or was it this one?) I grew up in a family that forever Emotion Policed me, and some of them still do this, even though I am in my 40s now.

    I was shamed and scolded by family (and people at local churches) for and from having emotions and for showing them.
    All that emotional repression does is create more problems and causes a person to bury their pain, not deal with it – you have to deal with the pain to get healing.

    Stop insisting hurting or angry people state all their grievances with church systems or abusive pastors in a way you prefer and find palatable.

    Do you realize how many people have been hurt or victimized by self professing Christians or churches, and some are not only still hurt by that, but are angry?

    Jesus showed his anger at the religious types of his era. Jesus did not state his displeasure with their abuse by being “nicey-nice” and polite about it. He called the spiritual abusers “vipers” and so forth.

    The book of Ecclesiastes in the Bible is one big long negative, debbie-downer type of writing.
    It’s not a gum drops and perky work at all, which shows that even God knows that people get upset and angry at the pain in life and he’s okay with them showing their emotions about it.

    If you insist everyone express their grief, frustration, or anger by acting “happy clappy” on forums and blogs, you’re only turning them off even more.

    Have you spent a lot of time on sites, forums, groups, and blogs by ex-Christians who are now atheists, or who are thinking maybe the Faith is a bunch of nonsense and are close to dumping the faith?

    I don’t even mean blogs such as this one – this blog may attract the occasional sort of person who visits ex-Christian sites, but not often. Most of your visitors here are still Christians, still very sweet and nice people.

    I sometimes visit blogs or groups by people who were once Christians but who now reject it, and some declare themselves atheist. Your insistence that they drop the cynicism and act ‘Sweetie McNice’ would NOT be received well at all.

    As someone who has been having severe doubts about the Christian faith herself, I can tell you that your approach only worsens things. You may possibly turn someone away from Christianity.

    In the context of listening to or talking with people who have been victimized or hurt by churches or pastors…
    Fixating less on how people are expressing their views and more on the content and substance of their commentary or anger / hurt could go a long way in helping people.

    Try validating their experiences and be empathetic, rather than scolding them for HOW they are reacting to their abuse. You’re essentially abusing such victims for a second time.

    Like

  4. You, and many others, want to be the arbiter of how negative truths are communicated.

    I can’t help thinking of the story of the young boy who had been taken hostage by Jeffrey Dahmer and the neighbors reported a strange story…police came and found a hysterical 14 year old and rational calm Dahmer and who did they believe? The boy died soon after.

    Like

  5. ” I’m an American living in the year 2016. I’m not an ancient Israelite living under theocratic, Mosaic rule over 2,000 years ago.”

    The irony is the more self governing individuals are, the fewer laws and regulations society needs. It was quite radical just a few hundred years ago to believe one did not need a King or church state to govern them.

    Self governing as image bearers with direct access to the wisdom of Yahweh was the intention. That intention has not changed.

    I honestly think many miss the overarching reason for Mosaic law in the context of the Ancient Near East.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Lea said,

    I can’t help thinking of the story of the young boy who had been taken hostage by Jeffrey Dahmer and the neighbors reported a strange story…police came and found a hysterical 14 year old and rational calm Dahmer and who did they believe? The boy died soon after.

    I almost mentioned something similar in my post above.

    It’s quite natural for a person who has been terrorized, hurt, abused, or wounded to react emotionally – to cry, scream, yell, act angry. Those are all normal, natural reactions to being hurt or afraid.
    (There are some abused people who may go the opposite and develop a flat affect (where they show little to no emotion), but a lot of people do react emotionally after they’ve been hurt).

    In the ton of reading I’ve done about various topics by Christian and Non-Christian therapists and psychiatrists, some of them have pointed out that when you get or feel angry about something, that anger is your mind and/or body’s warning signal to you that you have just been abused, taken advantage of – your emotional reaction is a red flag something is wrong.

    In the context of a person wanting to talk about some past trauma or abuse, I think it’s kind of crappy to tell people that you refuse to listen to their pain or stories of injustice unless and until they pretty it up to your tastes – that you insist they must convey their tales of pain in a sugar-coated way before you will grant them a listen.

    Showing anger is usually a good sign, according to a lot of the books I’ve read by doctors.
    In order for a target to get out of the “victim mentality,” and start healing and take control back of their life, they have to realize they did not deserve to be abused.
    That realization that they didn’t deserve to be mistreated will stir up anger in them. They may stay in that angry state for months or years before moving on.

    In one- on- one debates, I am usually opposed to people stating their views rudely.

    For instance, if you and I were debating politics or whatever heated topic, you wouldn’t change my mind by screaming insults about me, and I would probably ask you to speak nicer to me.
    But in a venue where people are talking about having been victimized spiritually, sexually, emotionally, or financially by a former church or former preacher, that is a different issue altogether.

    I think KAS is possibly confusing
    1. hurting people needing to recover from their pain by talking about it and
    2. people getting into run- of- the- mill debates about politics or religion.

    Like

  7. “I can’t help thinking of the story of the young boy who had been taken hostage by Jeffrey Dahmer and the neighbors reported a strange story…police came and found a hysterical 14 year old and rational calm Dahmer and who did they believe? The boy died soon after.”

    Oh, I know! I have witnessed less heinous examples but examples none the less. We now know there is actual brain science to back this up. A victim is groomed or brutalized. Their brain might disassociate which is an instinct to survive. Or their brain has to process the grooming and subsequent events.

    A few weeks ago, I accompanied a single mom and son to court. They could not afford to fight off the charge of alienation from an abusive father. The mom was forced to pay half for a court ordered ad litem who did nothing. Literally talked to the teen boy 5 min before court! He was paid 600.00. (Don’t ever try to convince me family court isn’t corrupt. I have seem broke people ordered to pay for therapeutic visitation counseling who were forced to give up custody because they could not pay 700.00 month!)

    Anyway, this brave precious young man at 14 insisted he wanted to speak for himself and the judge allowed it. Before he got his turn, he listened to his own father speak lies about him and his mother for over an hour. During his time to speak he was nervous, stuttering, inarticulate but resolute.

    When it was over he kept saying to us that he felt like he was not there. That it was like an out of body experience. He literally broke down 2 days later sobbing and inconsolable for an entire day. That is just one example of the brain when it comes to trauma, chaos or confusion.

    He would have been forced to see his dad had the man not defied the judge! The judge was more upset about the mans disrespect to him than the kid!

    Like

  8. That is so sad, Lydia!

    some of them have pointed out that when you get or feel angry about something, that anger is your mind and/or body’s warning signal to you that you have just been abused, taken advantage of

    Daisy, anger is also part of the grieving process. As is denial. So when you chastise victims for denial, whether in the form of saying nice things about a husband/abusive boyfriend/etc at some point or not calling the cops immediately or for anger, you are actively penalizing them for grieving!!!

    Like

  9. “So when you chastise victims for denial, whether in the form of saying nice things about a husband/abusive boyfriend/etc at some point or not calling the cops immediately or for anger, you are actively penalizing them for grieving!!!”

    Bingo.

    Like

  10. You [KAS], and many others, want to be the arbiter of how negative truths are communicated

    I would have stopped pratting on about this is you hadn’t mentioned me above!

    I don’t want to arbitrate how people communicate. I think the bible arbitrates this. That is the primary reason for my criticism. The secondary reason is unwise commenting is counterproductive to the very purpose of exposing error of belief or behavior.

    Take the following alluded to by Todd Pruitt:

    This monster of celebri-fying pastors flourishes in an environment that cultivates spiritual dangers for these men. We have watched and read with sadness the moral failures and downfall of those we have happily heaped demands, pressures, publicity, exposure, expectations, and contracts upon. Their failures have been many, and their failures–failures like adultery, cult-like leadership styles, domineering personalities, scandalous cover-ups, egoism, unentreatability, lack of self-control, manipulation, spiritual abuse, abandonment of community, family strife, doctrinal error, etc–have all been seen by the public eye to the shame of the church and the dishonor of Jesus

    That is certainly telling it like it is!

    It is not exactly difficult to know who the author has in mind here, it is easy to supply list of candidates. Now compare this to a watchblog commenter: quote they are all a pack of sewer rats unquote. How do you think that comes across to those who think the men in mind here are the best thing since sliced bread, and who hang on their every word? Those who think these men would never abuse anyone? Who say the right things but do the wrong things or turn a blind eye to those who abuse.

    If you think how people express themselves is simply up to them, you undermine any attempt to expose the Mark Driscolls of this world for being potty mouths. Isn’t this something of a hallmark of neo-calvinists? Penetrates, conquers, colonizes, plants: nothing wrong with that, no need to take how this will affect those who read it into account.

    I really don’t understand this blindness to the folly of trying to overcome or expose ungodly behavior with more ungodly behavior. I suspect I will simply have to go on not understanding it.

    Like

  11. KAS,

    Every so often I have one of those awkward chats with Christian friends about the dangers of a particular Charismatic Movement which is spreading like wildfire where I live (and other parts of the world).

    It is difficult to describe workers of evil without using adjectives to describe their behaviour.

    We are told to mark and avoid and when there is pushback of course the conversation will get tense. But I would rather warn someone and appear like a raving loony than allow my friends to open their wallets for disgusting charlatans who work for their parents’ business, called ‘church’, in Jesus’ name!

    “Can I get an Amen here?!”

    It’s disgusting.

    These people ruin lives.

    I have no problem calling them deceitful and disgusting workers of iniquity.

    I don’t care how white their teeth are and how many Jesus banners ‘their church’ has on the walls.

    Lydia wrote,

    “I would love it if every child is taught improper touching and awareness of the grooming process. I would also love it if they were taught they have the right to question and so forth. Sadly that is not how it works”

    Ahh. I’m doing this now with my two boys. Way earlier than I thought I needed to.

    “What do you do if someone tries to touch you here and here?”

    “Scream loudly and tell you and Dad immediately!”

    “What else can you do?”

    “Poke them in the eyes, jab them in the throat and punch them in the balls” 😏

    Amen.

    Like

  12. ,” don’t want to arbitrate how people communicate. ”

    Then why do you continue to communicate the opposite but use no specifics!

    “I think the bible arbitrates this”

    You mean… Your “white washed tomb” interpretation.

    Interesting you chose Todd Pruitt. He came on a blog calling commenters slanderers and he does not even understand the definition . He played the exact same pompous game you playing here. Besides, the big cheeses came down on him for daring to disagree on ESS and he is now running scared according to Trueman. You remember him. He is the one who sat on a panel that proclaimed CJ Mahaney fit for ministry. And he still won’t discuss his part in all that.

    You might want to find some better examples of manly men standing for truth…. “properly”.

    Like

  13. If Pruitt is a guest at a blog and claims it is entertaining slander, wouldn’t it be prudent to ask why he thinks this, just in case it is actually true? There is nothing to lose, and lots to gain.

    Pruitt didn’t want Mahaney to resume a platform ministry. Rightly in my opinion. He said in opposing this last April:

    When I first read the reports of spiritual abuse and cult-like control of members in SGM churches I dismissed them outright as the rantings of malcontents. And, as far as my own personal knowledge goes, that may be the case.

    Now what might make him think critics of Mahaney are malcontents?

    I have witnessed too many occasions where the smoke came entirely from the mouths of slanderers.

    Pruitt has been around too long to believe where there’s smoke there’s fire. Could the slander he has in mind just possibly be his reaction to ‘sewer rats’ type language, which you have ignored? Or the personal condemnation heaped on Piper? Or stupid comparisons of evangelicals with the Taliban or serial killers, or likening them to concentration camp guards? Coming from idlers, gossips and busybodies?

    However, the revelations of sexual abuse of children and the cover up of those crimes within SGM churches forced me to reconsider my opinion of “the critics.”

    Pruitt finally came round to seeing the scandal of allowing CJ to speak in spite of the “critics”, mainly from press reports. In other words, he took longer to see through Mahaney because of some of Mahaney’s critics.

    Salty It is difficult to describe workers of evil without using adjectives to describe their behaviour.

    I have no objection to you laying it on the line in no uncertain terms (and would you care if I did!). Jude and Peter did when describing false teachers. That is not the point. If you were for practical purposes to start swearing and cursing, using dirty jokes or snide personal comments, that is different. Isn’t it?

    Like

  14. “If Pruitt is a guest at a blog and claims it is entertaining slander, wouldn’t it be prudent to ask why he thinks this, just in case it is actually true? There is nothing to lose, and lots to gain.”

    Slander is never written, btw. Any way he was asked graciously by several for specific examples and he refused. Like you, and the other entitled Pharisees.

    “Pruitt didn’t want Mahaney to resume a platform ministry. Rightly in my opinion.”

    Pruitt is NOT Truman. Truman is the one who served on the panel who declared Mahaney fit for ministry.

    See what you did there? More deflective deception. The real problem is you think people not in your bubble are stupid and you can manipulate them. And I am sure such works in your bubble. Witnessed it many times.

    “Pruitt has been around too long to believe where there’s smoke there’s fire. Could the slander he has in mind just possibly be his reaction to ‘sewer rats’ type language, which you have ignored?”

    I am not sure who used sewer rats. Why is that my responsibility?

    Pruitt showed up on a thread admonishing what he seemed to view as ignorant peasants. And was quite the hot head. But that is considered godly by sycophants. I suppose in his lofty world that works? It seems to impress you.

    “Pruitt finally came round to seeing the scandal of allowing CJ to speak in spite of the “critics”, mainly from press reports. In other words, he took longer to see through Mahaney because of some of Mahaney’s critics.”

    Then he is not real bright, is he? So, Those bad bloggers kept such an educated pastor from recognizing a charlatan? There was a big clue going back 15 years all over the Internet. Mahaney was the “Apostle” for the “People if Destiny”. Seriously? That was not a tiny clue for Pruitt or Truman? Oh no. Truman had plenty of info at his fingertips. Still he chose to declare him fit for ministry. Have you ever wondered why and what he received from it?

    You can keep trying to deflect and manipulate and it will work for some. But your tactics only work to hide evil and deception of the celebrity culture in Christendom and even evil deeds. You are a glorified groupie. Congratulations.

    I would suggest Jesus Christ. Not the celebrity charlatans or pompous wannabes.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. Pruitt is NOT Truman. Truman is the one who served on the panel who declared Mahaney fit for ministry.

    I think Pruitt was mostly mad that people criticized his BFF Truman for the CJ thing. [I actually do like Truman, but was a mistake. I would like to hear him talk publically about it but I am betting he is under a gag order so I’m giving him a bit of a pass on it.]

    Like

  16. he took longer to see through Mahaney because of some of Mahaney’s critics

    I would say it was more because Mahaney was in the in crowd than it was anything critics had to say. But better late than never, I guess.

    Then he is not real bright, is he?

    Ha. Instead of calling out the people who had more insight and wisdom then you did to see through these people a long time ago, maybe you should be learning from them and asking why they saw it when you didn’t and issuing mea culpas when these things happen.

    Like

  17. Pruitt didn’t want Mahaney to resume a platform ministry. Rightly in my opinion.”
    Pruitt is NOT Truman. Truman is the one who served on the panel who declared Mahaney fit for ministry.
    See what you did there? More deflective deception.

    Truman declared Mahaney fit for ministry in 2011 or thereabouts. Pruitt said he was against Mahaney speaking at a conference in April this year, as I indicated above Pruitt didn’t want Mahaney to resume a platform ministry. Rightly in my opinion. He said in opposing this last April: ….

    I’m not sure where my pharisaical entitlement comes from in all this!

    Maybe Trueman made his assessment based on the evidence in front of him at the time, not what has subsequently come to light.

    Nitpicking over the definition of slander is not the point, some willingness of bloggers of every stripe to hold themselves to the same standards they demand of others would do a lot of good, not least for their credibility.

    I’m afraid I don’t consider the Internet evidence of wrong-doing. For every accurate assessment of a ministry there must an equal number of works of fiction, or greatly exaggerated pieces from some aggrieved person wanting to hit back or with some other agenda. Gossip even. Pruitt seems to view it this way, and I would agree with him.

    Do you have any hard evidence that Trueman received something in return for exhonerating Mahaney? You seem to be implying this.

    What on earth makes you think I want to hide evil and deception of the celebrity culture in Christendom and even evil deeds, or charlatans? I’m glad Pruitt spoke out.

    Pruitt may or may not have been right in claiming ‘slander’ was going on where he commented (slander as in ‘Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, with all malice’), but I find an unwillingness to consider this when coming from an outsider quite extraordinary.

    This is starting to go round in circles, and I don’t want to keep repeating the same thing, as is the habit of some !!

    Like

  18. “Truman declared Mahaney fit for ministry in 2011 or thereabouts. Pruitt said he was against Mahaney speaking at a conference in April this year, as I indicated above Pruitt didn’t want Mahaney to resume a platform ministry. Rightly in my opinion. He said in opposing this last April: ….”

    Are you sure it was a “platform ministry”? This presupposes Mahaney had not been teaching/preaching on any “platforms” since he fled into Devers arms after being declared fit for ministry by Trueman and then to Louisville where Mohler paved the way. Is that what was meant? Really?

    It would be wrong to believe that Mahaney had no “platform ministry” in that time frame before this past April. Or, is Pruitt trying to day only T$G qualifies as a platform ministry?

    Like

  19. “Pruitt may or may not have been right in claiming ‘slander’ was going on where he commented (slander as in ‘Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, with all malice’), but I find an unwillingness to consider this when coming from an outsider quite extraordinary.”

    Outsider how? The peasants were not lofty Ministers qualified to question the great men of God? Outside Christendom? Is the ground not to be level in Christendom?

    Frankly, he came off as an entitled hothead. They dont do well engaging outside their adoring bubbles.

    Like

  20. “I think Pruitt was mostly mad that people criticized his BFF Truman for the CJ thing. [I actually do like Truman, but was a mistake. I would like to hear him talk publically about it but I am betting he is under a gag order so I’m giving him a bit of a pass on it.]”

    Not a good advertisement for his manly man comp doctrine, though. How do Christian leaders find themselves under gag orders to protect charlatans? In effect, they are simply protecting themselves instead of standing up for victims. Mahaney, Mohler, etc, I understand. Truman, I dont. We are just not supposed to ask uncomfortable qestions about his part in it back in 2011. I think we are seeing how easy it is for leaders to be double minded in Christendom. The irony of those who defend Trueman is he would throw them under the bus in a heartbeat. Why? Because it never was about the victims or the peasants for him. It has only ever been doctrine and the priestly caste.

    Like

  21. KAS, you mean consistent integrity and basic character? Too high of a standard for even religious leaders? Yes, I know “, religious leadeers” are exempt. Especially those who believe we are born guilty and Jesus Christ was crucified and resurrected so we cwould have perpetual excuses.

    I don’t do sin leveling/moral equivalency arguments. That is Greek Paganism.

    Like

  22. The irony of those who defend Trueman is he would throw them under the bus in a heartbeat.

    There is way too much of a good ole boys club going on in pastordom today (and when you get kicked out for cause you get to go on expastors sites and get your narcissistic plaudits there!).

    Like

  23. I don’t do sin leveling/moral equivalency arguments.

    Whenever someone tries to tell me I’m ‘just as bad’ as a murderer pervert adulterer etc I want to tell them to speak for themselves. Because no.

    Like

  24. “There is way too much of a good ole boys club going on in pastordom today (and when you get kicked out for cause you get to go on expastors sites and get your narcissistic plaudits there!).”

    That is most likely the problem as clubs of all sizes are formed around protection which does not mean there aren’t differences within. . If there is one thing I learned in my career is that the higher you deal the harder it is to tell the good guys from the bad guys. You can apply the same in politics, church, etc.

    Like

  25. Is the ground not to be level in Christendom?

    Yes it should be, but it isn’t. Trueman was asked to appraise Mahaney which he did. Years later, Pruitt comes along and finally a voice from the ‘ministry’ side is heard strongly wanting Mahaney not to speak at a conference. Personally, I’m entirely in agreement with this. Discernment is essential.

    My problem is that you are unwilling to put the “critics” who made Pruitt initially doubt the accusations against Mahaney under the same spotlight, the same discernment, a level field for everyone. Why did made Pruitt have his doubts? It is as though the “critics” could do no wrong. They might be right about Mahaney’s character, but this doesn’t justify an ‘attitude problem’ in the way they go about seeking to call Mahaney to account, even assuming it is their business to do so. The absolute unwillingness as far as I can see to look at themselves, but all too willing to look at the failings of others. The inner Pharisee of the critic!

    There really are some in the world of commenting who could audition for the first act of Macbeth without needing make-up !! That’s my criticism of some “critics”, but to conclude from this that I am on the side of authoritarian or incompetent leadership is irrational.

    Pruitt has been around too long not to have developed a skepticism of claims of wrong-doing in a church environment, he has seen it all before. A bit more internet wisdom might have enabled him to reconsider Mahaney’s ministry earlier than he did.

    Like

  26. KAS, your basic argument is an old one. The peasants should keep their place, shut up and let the titled elite think and speak for them. You affirm your position by pointing out what you think are wrong forms of communicating –then if everyone does not agree with your view then they are labeled as agreeing with all the vile forms of communicating. You set up strawman and false dichotomy’s.

    Even limited public figures (Pruitt and Trueman chose to be such and even promote it at MoS where they dont engage the peasantst) need to put their big boy britches on when it comes to ANY dissent from their words or actions.

    If Truman wants credibility, IMO, he needs to explain why he got suckered by the Neo Reformed elite. That would go a long way to help people get out of that celebrity culture he writes about. But it seems his ego won’t allow it or he has been silenced for fear of losing something. That is how he comes off to me. It is often not profitable to speak truth or come clean with your part in something nefarious. But, it’s the right thing to do and take the Lumps….. if you want to teach others about our Lord.

    Think of the alternative to silencing dissenters of all stripes. It might be time for you to put on your big boy britches and think for yourself.

    Like

  27. lydia00 – Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that I am increasingly a senior peasant.

    I’ve also never had to acolyte the church candles either. (Don’t tell anyone I just had to look the word up.)

    My own platform ministry – and it’s time you started treating me with more respect – consists entirely of thinking over Christian things whilst waiting for the train to arrive to take me to work.

    I don’t think the peasants should bow and scrape to their feudal lords, aka as the evangelical conference-speaking establishment. But because these worthies are often uncompromisingly faithful to the bible in areas others are not, it is difficult to believe they have some very human failings, or in some cases worse than just failings. The difficulty is made worse by the attitudes of some of their critics, which is why I have pratted on and on and on about this.

    Take patriarchy for example. I recently read an exchange between the Bayly Brothers and a commenter who was complementarian, but thought they were taking it too far. Going beyond what is written. The commenter was direct but respectful, but the Baylys couldn’t cope with any critique of their system, and basically told him to move on. They couldn’t cope with someone who is certainly more sympathetic to their ideas than an outright egalitarian. So the red warning light went on.

    That did far more to convince me that something has gone wrong in the partriarchal movement as they espouse it than many a commenter who can’t see the log in their own eye. Shutting down well-meant criticism is clear sign of deception being at play, or a threat to someone’s ‘authority’ or sphere of influence in a particular evangelical constituency.

    Like

  28. KAS, See…here we go again,. I have NO idea what you mean by saying “and its time you started treating me with more respect”. Again, we have the same problem. I don’t agree with you. I am direct. I don’t do flowery or vague. I focus on victims/survivors. You focus on the priestly caste.

    The thing is, this exchange is not about you, really. I would never in a million years believe I could convince you of anything. That is not what this exchange has been about. I come across your type all the time. The more you write the more obvious it becomes no matter how “reasonable” you attempt to present yourself. Let me attempt to explain which is most likely futile but again, its not about YOU.

    On every blog like this many victims read who don’t yet have the strength to comment. Sometimes they lurk for a long time. Their abuses can range from a controlling pastor they trusted to much worse. But you want to know the absolute worst thing for them? Those that defend the abusers. Those that defend wrong doing with ridiculous standards for communication. Those that insist they communicate their abuse ‘in the right way” or they won’t be heard. It is just heaping on more abuse and enabling wrong doing or evil.

    That is where you come in. You presented a perfect example of such people.

    I guess I had some early training I had no idea would come in so handy one day. I used to be on the board of a crisis center. I wanted to learn as much about it as I could because I don’t have that background. Back then, I was not connecting all the dots and we now have more science to back up what happens to the brain during trauma and pro longed cognitive dissonance. I would always think if the victims could be more reasonable we could help them better. And I was wrong to think that. After all, what was my definition of “reasonable” after trauma? I knew nothing. Thankfully, I was a learner and observer who kept my mouth shut. I was smart enough to know that was not my area of expertise. (Btw, one of the biggest problems at the DV shelter were pastors who came to persuade them their husband was really sorry this time and their children needed to be with both mom and dad. What a lie. They were revolving doors. And the pastors were enablers because to them, marriage was more important than safety for her or the children. A sick view that has been around for since patriarchy took over after the fall.)

    The exchange with you happened because if any victims are reading here, they need to know that there will NEVER be an acceptable way to discuss what happened to them with the people IN THE system that carried out the abuse and those within that looked the other way. It is futile. The priestly class and its systems exists to grow and protect itself along the way. You are one of the protectors of the priestly class system. It is that simple. And you most likely really believe you are reasonable.

    So that was the purposed for our exchange. For the wounded who might be lurking. Not you. I wanted them to see that even those who try so hard to come off as “reasonable”, really aren’t. I don’t want them worried about HOW they communicate the abuses they have received or witnessed in the “Name of Jesus”. I want them on a journey of healing. I want them to be strong survivors of this brand of deceptive evil. The first step is recognizing the brain gaming and staying far away from it. Most people want to be accepted and liked by the “group” they are in at the time. I could care less. I like truth more.

    Your comments have snippets in them that outed you early on. For basic starters, you came here concerned for the way priestly class abuse was communicated. You might want to read the Screwtape Letters. It sounds “reasonable”, too. You have bought into Thought Reform hook, line and sinker and don’t even know it.

    Liked by 2 people

  29. Oh dear. ‘Having respect‘ was a JOKE.

    You seem to be only able to believe the worst.

    I’m not reformed. I’m not protecting a priestly caste. They should be exposed.
    But when I read commenters dripping in self-pity and bitterness, foul-mouthed, vicious and nasty, it makes me doubt their claim to be victims. People who can recite a litany of every wrong done to them, sometimes up to four decades ago. It’s not difficult to find examples of this. They may indeed have been bullied by a pastor or authoritarian leader, but it is impossible not to reach the conclusion that if this is their attitude to those around them, I’m not surprised they got into trouble. Six of one and half a dozen of the other. Which is cause and effect?

    The constituency that does this and is allowed to do this, they are the ones protecting the priestly caste, because their criticisms of that caste are not credible to the impartial observer or fans of the conference establishment. They are letting down those who really have been badly hurt.

    No, I’m not offended by strong and direct language. When it crosses the border into being sinful, that is wrong. When the bible tells us to control our tongues, it does not make an exception for a special class of people who have suffered.

    You might claim that if I knew in more detail what had happened in particular cases of abuse, I would be less bothered by how people express themselves. Possibly. The trouble is, in real life I’ve known more than one person who has really suffered at the hands of others, and they didn’t seem to have a need to talk about this endlessly, I’ve known some quit remarkable cases where I would have expected bitterness (I reckon I would have had trouble with it) but there was none.

    I don’t think I am ever going to convince you that my criticism of the way some people post is not the same thing as defending the actions of those they seek to criticize. I’ll leave it with I find the blindness to this completely baffling.

    Like

  30. When it crosses the border into being sinful, that is wrong.

    The problem is that you think you can judge this. And by doing so, you are judging people who really are victims, who should be allowed to vent their righteous anger. And you judge people who RIGHTLY call people like Tullian and Phillips and Driscoll on the bad behavior that all the mealy mouthed folks are not willing to do.

    I agree with Lydia. Victims should know that it is safe to talk about it here, because goodness knows they are unlikely to get support from their churches unfortunately.

    Like

  31. The trouble is, in real life I’ve known more than one person who has really suffered at the hands of others, and they didn’t seem to have a need to talk about this endlessly

    Have you ever thought they didn’t consider you a safe person to talk to?

    Like

  32. “The trouble is, in real life I’ve known more than one person who has really suffered at the hands of others, and they didn’t seem to have a need to talk about this endlessly

    Have you ever thought they didn’t consider you a safe person to talk to?”

    Yep. And as you know, Lea, the bigger problem is getting them to talk at all. It can takes years to process the deceptive evils. And when you add in the deceptive “spiritual” element it is even harder to process. I am grateful when victims post at all. It is incredibly helpful when they are angry enough to rant. It means they finally value themselves a bit. I say bravo.

    Evil doesn’t show up with horns and a pitchfork but masquerading as an angel of light. We would all be better off if we learned that when getting involved in the Religious system.

    Like

  33. Lea & Lydia, You gals get it. I read SSB for at least a year before I made a comment. After I made my first post, under the name Scared, I fell into a shame tizzy for daring to speak, but people were gracious & supportive. My comment wasn’t vicious or anything to be ashamed of, it was just so downloaded in my mind, NOT TO TOUCH GOD’S ANOINTED. Well, here I am 5 years later, I am a loud & proud done & you should hear me roar on twitter. Love calling evil out. Jesus was great at it. He is my role model. No more guru’s for me. Love, Gail

    Like

  34. I fell into a shame tizzy for daring to speak

    Gail, I have been reading Brene Brown’s books on shame and vulnerability and one of the things she talks about is how being vulnerable and sharing these things is very important to overcoming shame. I think she also said it’s very important that the response to these stories are empathetic. I have learned so much reading people’s stories and appreciate them so much.

    I think practically it helps everyone to hear lots of stories to be able to pick out patterns and hopefully notice when things are going awry.

    Like

  35. KAS, Hopefully, a bit of my story can clue you into why abuse victims come across as angry and bitter.

    I grew up in a core church family. We went to a good Reformed church that emphasized pure doctrine, and discipline. My mom stayed at home and my dad worked. I had no reason to doubt that my upbringing was great because people constantly commented to my parents about how wonderfully we behaved and how smart we were. We got good grades in school. But, the weird thing was that I was not happy. I learned to keep to myself, because my siblings would ridicule me and each other whenever we showed any weakness. My safe place was my school, where I could be myself, not at home or at church. I fantasized about running away and starting a new life, and when I graduated college, I moved 1000+ miles from my family.

    After a few moves, I ended up in a spiritually abusive church. I didn’t understand spiritual abuse at all. I bought into the authoritarian model, but I thought it was just strong personalities of the leaders, not abuse. Whenever I spoke up, I got abused, but I just thought it was their mistaken view of whatever.

    It wasn’t until about three years ago that my eyes were opened to call it “abuse”. That has led to an incredible journey, but part of that journey has been remembering all these events throughout my life that puzzled me and realizing that the confusion I had about them was because they were abusive.

    So, you can call it bitterness, anger, whatever, but my world was turned upside down. The people I respected as spiritual leaders and guides, I now see many of them as manipulative and abusive. The people I thought were “liberals” I now see as those who are trying to fight abuse in the church. I see that my view of God is also upside down. I’m not a worthless worm who is of no use to God, as I have been taught all my life. Instead, I’m a prince in the royal family, and God’s ambassador to a broken world in need of him. I’m highly valued, not worthless. Now, though, I realize there is a lot of brokenness and trauma in my life that I need to understand, grieve. I have family relationships with people who want to deny what has happened to me.

    I talked to someone a few weeks ago. She said, “do you have joy in your life?” Honestly, there were brief periods in my life where I had joy, but much of the time when I did have joy in the past, it was blamed on me being too self-absorbed or not sacrificing enough for others. Joy was the smile I pinned on my face every Sunday because people who didn’t have Joy were hiding some sin.

    Ultimately, KAS, this is a lot of why victims get blamed and mistreated in church. When the victim finally wakes up to the abuse, he is ANGRY. He goes to the civil/church authorities and because they’re all trained to equate anger with sin, they disbelieve, blame, shun the victim and give the abuser a pat on the back. I’ve opened up to a few spiritual leaders in my old church, and their response was that I deserved the abuse for one reason or another. In fact, every time I’ve complained about mistreatment or whatever, it’s ALWAYS turned back on me. They don’t have to listen to me because… I’m too negative. I complain too much. I caught them off guard.

    This is a horrible caricature of God. Jesus says we come before “daddy”. When our knees get skinned and are bloody, the fake God says clean yourself up and stop crying before you come into my royal presence. The real God runs from his throne and reaches out to pull us into his arms.

    Are you representing the real God, or the authoritarian/legalist caricature of him?

    Liked by 1 person

  36. Bravo, Gail! As a survivor, you are in a unique position to encourage others on to that healing journey. We need more strong independent followers of Christ….not the followers of the gurus….. who….btw…….. seem to be positioning themselves as special snowflakes we must tip toe around or they won’t listen. I have news for other victims: They won’t listen anyway. Its a ruse.

    Liked by 1 person

  37. “I’m not a worthless worm who is of no use to God, as I have been taught all my life. Instead, I’m a prince in the royal family, and God’s ambassador to a broken world in need of him. I’m highly valued, not worthless.”

    YES!!!

    Like

  38. Mark – you long post deserves a reply.

    Why do you assume that I cannot relate to what you detail in your post? I’ve experienced some of the things you detail myself.

    I’m not someone who thinks it is sinful to be angry. Anger is the correct emotion to feel for blatant abuse of believers. Be angry but do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and give no opportunity to the devil. At some point the anger has to be relinquished or it invites Satanic infiltration of the believer’s life. But it is not wrong in itself.

    Bitterness and slander and malice are sinful reactions to being sinned against, and the same apostle tells us to put them away.

    You want authoritarian ‘pastors’ who bully to be exposed and dealt with. So do I. There are bloggers who campaign for this – they are right to do so. There are commenters on such blogs who add insight to this, or can testify from personal experience what it is like to be on the receiving end of such abuse. Nothing wrong with that.

    What I have in mind are some bloggers and some commenters who have not put bitterness, slander and malice away. Who let rip with just the sort of language the apostle tells us not to use, that is, they let evil talk come out of their mouths. Who want revenge. Who automatically believe the worst. Who can criticize others all day, but are hyper-sensitive to any hint that they may need to deal with sinful issues in their own life. Those for whom the sun never sets on their anger. (This is why some people see them as ‘eternal victims’.)

    It is difficult to tell if the latter category have really ever suffered at the hands of ‘pastors’, or whether they are nursing grievances, or have brought some of their bad experience on themselves.

    If this kind of posting makes me doubt them who has seen wrong authority first hand, how much more will it make those who are into celebrity evangelicalism, who tend to support well-known ministries almost unconditionally and will always give them the benefit of the doubt be skeptical of claims of wrong-doing. Who write-off all criticism because of the activities of some. It is entirely counterproductive.

    How you get from this that my criticism of such blogging and posting is in some way to support the abuser is beyond me. It is the absolute opposite!

    Like

  39. Pingback: Doug Phillips Releases Statement Attempting to Appear Innocent of All Sexual Allegations Against Him after Lawsuit Settlement | Spiritual Sounding Board

  40. While my heart breaks for the potential victim(s) and my deep personal disappointment in Mr. Phillips lingers as a stark and sad reminder that we can’t place our trust in mankind, I do wonder what value is provided in the continued disgrace. It is sad to see something that has gone on for years and settled in the court process, despite the Plantiff’s obvious contentment (if she settled) being dug up and rehashed over and over again. Further attack is not the answer folks. It’s like kicking a wounded person…yelling, “suffer, suffer, suffer…”. It’s time to put down the rocks and get out the medication.

    I personally put a lot of faith in Vision Forum and Mr. Phillip’s leadership ability and in his personal integrity, as did many other Christians – it appears, as many would agree, these were poor judgements, however, in the heartbreak and discouragement let us heal and move forward, being stronger and wiser.

    I’ve read several blogs on this story and to be honest, I envision tiny characters sitting in their cramped apartments, sitting at a crowded coffee table, in their PJ’s at noon, typing away on their glowing Macbook…sorry, but that is the image. What I don’t imagine is someone who is happy and helpful and has Biblical matters in mind.

    Much of the hostility I’ve read seems to be rooted in anger and hatred. Do I (we) hate the sin that hurt all those involved…absolutely. Do we hate the people, no, God forbid we might hate those that He loves and died for – John 3:16.

    If the Plantiff accepted an out of court settlement, then…she has obviously moved on with her life. That is probably good cause to move on with ours as well…at least it’s a thought. She had the right to pursue the case…for some reason, she settled. Let her decision (it wasn’t the court’s decision) be enough to satisfy our demand for justice. True justice will come from God anyway. He is the Eternal Judge.

    I remember the pain I felt when I learned of this disgraceful outcome. I sat and wept for the loss in all the lives and ministry. I wanted to minister to the young lady and I wanted to sit with Mr. Phillips and pray with him (if it were true) to repent, confess his sin, and to seek reconciliation with all those hurt – especially with God. I prayed for his wife and their children…can’t imagine their pain, hurt and shame.

    All I could do is pray for them from a long distance, yet, that is the best thing we can do…pray for them and thank God, that by His grace we are not in the same or worse situation.

    God’s Word is full of failures, discipline, correction, repentance, salvation, and reestablishment of service (David, Moses, Peter…) and my deepest prayer is that all of these positives are taking place in the hearts and lives of those impacted and that the negatives are being defeated and conquered.

    May God heal them and use them (all of us) for His glory.

    We must ask, “what is my motive”…if it is for God’s glory, great…if not, move on to something that is for His glory – it’s the only way to peace and healing.

    Man will fail, but God prevails and His eyes are upon all things done in public or in secret. He sees the motives or our heart.

    Like

  41. What I have in mind are some bloggers and some commenters who have not put bitterness, slander and malice away.

    KAS, I think you must have a mistaken definition of slander to refer to it in such a fashion. Malice is assumed by you, as is bitterness.

    What I don’t imagine is someone who is happy and helpful and has Biblical matters in mind.

    regarding your comment Tim it includes assumption more of motives on the part of people you don’t know. If people could just accept, as you said, that they should STOP worshiping people who they think are leaders and realize that some of them are probably not even Christians, they will be much better off. I don’t think it helps you to do that to jump with assumptions of malice, anger, ‘not having biblical matters in mind’ at anyone who dares to point out the glaring issues with these leaders.

    Maybe they have the biblical matter of calling out sin in mind. Maybe they have the biblical matter of protecting innocents at mind. Maybe they have the biblical matter of warning others lest they fall for false prophets in mind.

    Like

  42. Dear Tim,

    I’ve read several blogs on this story and to be honest, I envision tiny characters sitting in their cramped apartments, sitting at a crowded coffee table, in their PJ’s at noon, typing away on their glowing Macbook…sorry, but that is the image.

    You forgot the Cheetos, Tim. If you want to denigrate the bloggers and commenters properly, you gotta say that we’re all in our pyjamas, at noon, eating nothing but Cheetos. Cheetos are key. 😉

    I do wonder what value is provided in the continued disgrace. It is sad to see something that has gone on for years and settled in the court process, despite the Plantiff’s obvious contentment (if she settled) being dug up and rehashed over and over again. Further attack is not the answer folks. It’s like kicking a wounded person…yelling, “suffer, suffer, suffer…”

    It’s not about attacking or disgracing Phillips. It’s about reminding the world about what he’s done, and the fact that he’s not safe to follow or fit to be a pastor. I have no doubt that Douggie would like all the rest of us to forget how he betrayed his family and his congregation, so he can get right back to making bank off of Jesus. We can’t make it that easy for him, Tim. Everyone needs to remember that this man has no business calling himself a pastor or minister, or setting himself up as a “family values” guru.

    As you yourself said, let’s be stronger and wiser. If Doug Phillips chooses to settle into quiet obscurity, fine and good. But if he tries to return to the spotlight and the Jesus gravy train, we’ll be here to put facts in his way.

    Liked by 2 people

  43. I’m glad you pulled this one out, Serving, because I missed it:

    despite the Plantiff’s obvious contentment (if she settled)

    Settling hardly means she is ‘content’. She probably evaluated the options rationally and took the best one. That hardly lets doug off the hook and means he should be back in ministry! These things are totally separate.

    Also, sometimes for your own health you have to withdraw from a situation (although I’m betting there was also some sort of gag order in the settlement, because Doug would love to pretend all of this never happened). But since we have not been personally harmed, we don’t have to withdraw. We are not emotionally scarred and we are not legally required to stop talking and pretend this never happened.

    Like

Thanks for participating in the SSB community. Please be sure to leave a name/pseudonym (not "Anonymous"). Thx :)

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s