Christian Blogger Claims that Husbands Don’t Like to Use Words to Resolve Marital Conflict, Physical Force Works Better

Christian Patriarchy: men who resort to physical force (wife spanking, restricting movement, etc), to gain control of their wives

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Ken and Lori Alexander, wife spanking

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Always Learning is a blog by Lori Alexander. Her husband, Ken, oversees it and comments as well. Lori claims to:

“love teaching women to be sober, to love their husbands and children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, and obedient to their husbands as the Bible instructs me to do. This is a personal teaching blog sharing what I have seen work from God’s Word in my life and the lives of many others.”

Lori sees herself as a Titus 2 woman for mentoring younger women. Twice above we read that she uses the Bible as her instruction book. This is apparently to give her more credibility as a Christian wife and because she claims her teaching comes from the Bible, who would want to question her?   Oh, oh, oh, pick me!!!

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The title of her disturbing article is, When Words Won’t Resolve Arguments.

Mrs. Alexander first quoted a paragraph from a New York Times article. One can safely predict, from Lori’s article title, that the sample quotes probably do not encourage using words in arguments. But how else could someone resolve an argument? The following New York Times quote is about a couple who got in a stupid argument about where to go for dinner. (I bolded words for emphasis):

In previous relationships, I might have stormed out and sought diversion in a bar, writing off the possibility of resolution as both futile and beneath my pride. This time, though, I swept up Deanna in my arms, damsel-in-distress-style. Caught by surprise, she succumbed to my rescue. I had literally elevated us above our stalemate. We kissed and headed out to dinner, no longer concerned about where we went.

Here’s more:

Talk can yield clarity, understanding and empathy, but sometimes it just brings exhaustion and recrimination. Sometimes action is the only pathway to good will. And when I picked her up, I proved it. (Source: Superheroes, Just for Each Other)

Ok, as a side note, t’s important to note that the image displayed at the top of Lori’s article shows a black and white photo of John Wayne with a lady in a dress swung over his knees. The woman has a look of terror on her face, while John Wayne has a smug look on his face. What is he doing? He is spanking her with a hand-sized metal shovel.

I found a clip from the John Wayne movie. Be forewarned, it is disturbing to watch. Notice the looks on the faces. The men seem to enjoy watching this woman being spanked, as if this is socially acceptable.

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But why would Lori Alexander use this image and title if she was not at least implicitly promoting wife spanking or men using physical force to control their wives?

Below, Lori discusses the differences between men and women in using words in arguments:

Men don’t like to always use words to solve everything, whereas women do. Marriage conferences teach how couples should “fight fair;” remembering to take all these given steps, asking the right questions, listening carefully, keep talking until its resolved, etc. How come women have mostly gotten their way in resolving conflict and men have to accommodate them? {“Now, honey, you forgot this step and you aren’t allowed to say that to me.”} This is NOT how it should be in a Christian marriage!

That’s odd. She says “women have mostly gotten their way in resolving conflict”  – – – by trying to communicate?  Say what?  Isn’t that how most people resolve conflicts?  Notice she pulls the Christian card saying that fighting fair is NOT how it should be in a Christian marriage.  How, pray tell, is she proposing that couples resolve conflicts?  Let’s continue:
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Ken and I watched an old John Wayne Movie a few months ago. He was married to a very difficult wife. She was always nasty to him. Near the end of the movie, he took her over his knee and spanked her! She behaved herself after this and they were kissing and enjoying each other at the end of the movie. I guess this was a common occurrence in many of the old movies! {Can you imagine a movie like this today? No, instead we get perversity of every kind but if a man acted like John Wayne, he’d be put into prison.}

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What is the common theme in both image and New York Times article?

Answer: Husband uses physical force to control wife.

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If a man behaved like John Wayne, he should be in prison. It is called Domestic Violence – assault. But I wouldn’t be so quick to assume that the woman “behaved herself.” She was forced into submission. Did she have any other options? Do you notice how Lori paints this John Wayne movie in a positive light as if she’s sad that this option is no longer available?

Most men don’t like to just “talk it out” ad nauseam. They’re sick of arguing with their wives and would love to have some way to just STOP the arguing and have peace.

A better interpretation would be: some Patriarchal men like to have their own way and are not concerned about their wife’s feelings or concerns.

This is all most men want; peace and joy in their homes. As many of you know, I encourage wives to NOT argue with their husbands since we are commanded in the Bible to not argue and God has ordained the husband as the leader of the home. However, since most women like to control their husbands, many marriages are filled with strife and arguing.

I know how this works. When I was in the Homeschool Movement in which Patriarchy was endorsed, if a woman did not agree with her husband, she was to remain silent and pray for him to change his mind. Having peace comes at a price. The wife in this scenario is de-personalized. She doesn’t get to voice her concerns.

We do live in a feminized society. Women want men to behave like women and“talk” everything out. One of the couples Ken and I mentored were on the brink of divorce.

Ack!!! She said they mentored a couple.

Please stop mentoring, Ken and Lori!

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The wife would have major, uncontrollable tantrums. She admitted she “just couldn’t control herself.” Ken told the husband to wrap her up in a bear hug every time this happened. She liked the idea and it worked! They are happily married many years later.
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I have some questions: did the wife give her husband permission to be wrapped up in a bear hug, or did the husband force this onto his wife? If he is forcing, this is not love or respect, it is using physical force to control. This is abuse.

Godly husbands should have a way to take leadership and stop the merry-go-round that so many couples are on, as long as it is not physically abusive, of course.

It is apparent that they are clueless as to what constitutes as physical abuse.

Men get sick and tired of being politically correct according to feminist’s laws and always having to talk everything to death.

She seemed to like the John Wayne movie above, but now she’s gone PC for modern times. Rats! Those pesky laws interfere with men being men. Gotta love how she throws around that F word.

After all, they are men and we should appreciate their masculinity instead of trying to stifle it.

How is talking with a wife stifling a husband’s manhood?

Let’s take a look at some of the comments and read Ken and Lori’s responses (and what they conveniently don’t address). We’ll start with a comment from Dave who is definitely in favor of physical restraint:

johnwayne2 johnwayne3

Lori’s husband, Ken responded:

Wifely submission is a voluntary and willful act just as a husband or wife must voluntarily submit to God if they love Him. God does not push or pull, or bully a person, even a Believer into doing what is right, and submitting to Him and His Word.

That said, there is nothing that forbids a husband from reminding his wife of God’s demand that she submit and respect her husband. Even if the husband can do little about a difficult wife he can call upon her to consider if she is in the faith, if she loves her Lord Jesus and if she is going to honor Him as Lord, or not.

Ouch!  So if a husband decides his wife is not submissive enough, he gets to question her salvation?

I was at my wits end it seems at times trying not to necessarily get Lori to submit, but to get her to see the areas where she was being difficult with me.

It sounds like Ken was being a bully.

True willful submission was icing on the cake that I was not necessarily desiring, but God was, from her. It was my appeal for her to consider God’s demands upon her life that helped her realize that indeed she loved her Lord Jesus and such love demanded her obedience to Him, and in turn her willful submission to her husband.

He’s trying to tell us that he wasn’t demanding her to submit, but he really was. Additionally, he went even lower by presuming to be God and judging her salvation. Convincing her to love God meant that she had to submit to him. In other words, he’s using God to meet his entitlement needs of submission.

Also in the comments section, we read from another commenter, Joanie:

One time I was throwing a tantrum (I had a thin nightgown on) on and he picked me up and carried me outside in the frigid temps and deposited me on a snow covered dog house! I huffed and puffed a few more times to show I was not gonna take that, but he told me he would do it again, but in the end I had to wind down because as much as I told myself I was big and bad ( I wasn’t) I knew he was bigger and badder. Honestly, it is hard to believe I ever acted like this. He says today he saw a diamond in the rough back then. I am so grateful. Today I try to sense what he wants or sees as direction and work to make it happen because I trust him so much.

How does Ken respond to this? Does he tell Joanie that her husband was wrong and abusive for taking her out in the frigid air in a thin nightgown and putting her on a snow-covered dog house? Let’s see:

It is such a difficult thing to know as a godly Christian husband how much to just love and accept our wife’s antics and being difficult, knowing we are to love our wife as Christ loves the church, and when we need to stand up to our wive [sic] as Christ eventually does with His disobedient children and insists on consequences. Today’s society mores, feminist views and even state laws may prevent many men from picking up their wife and throwing her into the snow to cool off in her thin nightgown, but excellent that your husband’s consistency in dealing with you helped lead you to a much better place and marriage. That is the goal for most husbands.. not to win, oppress or punish a wife, but to help her to good changes in attitudes and behaviors that will form the basis for personal growth in the marriage.

In conclusion, Ken and Lori Alexander do not think that husbands and wives should use words when they have arguments. They think it’s better for husbands to lead, and in the above case, we can see that they seem to be okay with the idea of picking a wife in a thin nightgown and putting her in the snow for “misbehavior.” They also approve of John Wayne’s spanking, but offer the disclaimer that it’s too bad that we have modern laws that prevent that from happening now. Ken and Lori both try to say they would never condone abuse, yet when abuse is clearly described to them, they dismiss it.

You can be sure that those who read Lori’s blog could easily interpret Ken and Lori’s words as condoning wife spanking (but just be careful that you don’t get caught). With this kind of talk about wives being rebellious, physically forcing her into a bear hug, etc, women are treated as a possession, an objects to own. This is NOT loving wives as Christ loves the church. Christ does not coerce His bride or physically restrain her. To claim that this teaching is Biblical is FALSE TEACHING and is ABUSIVE.

168 comments on “Christian Blogger Claims that Husbands Don’t Like to Use Words to Resolve Marital Conflict, Physical Force Works Better

  1. Hey J.A. “Where’s Sage?”
    Hopefully Sage stays in her cage,
    and will calm down & cool her rage.
    Prayers that she moves past this anal stage
    and matures in love with age.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. What IS it with people supporting child molesters in authority? I decided to leave this thread and not think about child molesters for the rest of the day but then someone sends me a link theough Facebook to a story about a police officer in Maine who was sentenced to only four years in prison for repeatedly raping a four year old girl. He has to pay $5000 in restitution to the little girl to pay for past and future therapy. That will pay for a lot of therapy, right? Children are resilient, right? Arghhhhh

    Here is the kicker. People packed the courtroom to support the man and the parents sat alone without support. Because, you know, except for this little quirk, he was a fine officer for 26 years and twice won an officer of the year award. He claims he only raped the little girl because he was stressed out from police work. He cried during his sentencing.

    I am so disgusted with people right now I actually have heart palpitations. What is wrong with our society that we would support this monster and not this precious child?

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Marsha,

    I don’t have a link to a quote, but I’ve read that, in all his years of dealing with child sexual abuse, Boz Tchividjian says he’s rarely seen churches support the victims in court. They most often support the perps.

    Please, take care of yourself, and keep speaking up.

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  4. Yes, BTDT, that’s exactly why he’s doing what he’s doing. It disgusted him when he saw people from church in courtrooms to support perpetrators and victims not supported.

    Yes, Marsha, keep going.

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  5. Marsha, Makes me scream. Love your comments & intelligence on this. As you know, NO children, are not resilient! When they are old enough to process what took place, the fallout is abhorrent. Abuse kills, steals & destroys. I am with you on why the hell there are so many adults supporting these creeps.

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  6. Thank you Marsha;)

    “How are we ever going to educate people about pedophilia in the church and protect children if we cannot even educate the people who comment here?!!! It is so frustrating! I am at a loss for how to get BB to understand let alone the pastors and elders who think this is curable and children can be safe with ‘repentant’ pedophiles and women should marry them or stay married to them.”

    I grew up with men like this, they just don’t care, and never will. They are to selfish and spoilt. Men are all that matter in their world.

    Have you noticed it is worse in their world for a man to cheat on his wife with an adult, but child rape is no big deal?

    They understand pedophiles and rapist, they sympathize.

    People that don’t hate child rape I put in the same group with child rapist and write them off.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. 100pinkapples, you are absolutely right to put child rapists & their defenders in the same category. Anyone who would defend these monsters is as low as they are themselves. How anyone can consider them as decent citizens is beyond my understanding.

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  8. @Refugee:

    Bike Bubba, you remind me of one young woman’s observation, on the purity culture. She said she was expected to remain completely pure, not even giving away pieces of her heart in her thoughts, until she married. And then she was supposed to become some paragon of sexual excitement and passion for the benefit of her husband.

    i.e. morph instantly from Virgin Unto Death to her new husband’s Personal Porn Star and Inflatable Sex Doll, immediately fulfilling 24/7/365 all the sexual fantasies and paraphiliae he’s accumulated during his time in Purity Culture. (Including bribing him to save himself for marriage with JUICY stories of barn-burning, swinging from the chandeliers, dynamite married S*E*X 24/7/365 after he finally says “I Do”.)

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  9. @DDG:

    I wonder if any of these Christian husbands have their wives stand in the corner, or give them time out. Or maybe they have a wooden paddle with the wife’s name engraved upon it, hanging in an obvious place to remind her of what’s coming if she is a bad, little girl. That entire blog article is written like a twisted Harlequin romance novel.

    Or a fetish porn site.

    Whenever I’ve described “Christian Domestic Discipline(TM)” to anyone in the mainstream, the most common reaction I get is “Now there’s a guy who’s into BDSM but won’t admit to it.”

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  10. Hi Julie Anne,

    I stumbled upon your blog, and I am sorry to hear about you troubles with your previous church. I am the “Ken” of the Ken and Lori you speak of in this post and if you have any real interest in the truth, let me help you set the record straight.

    First, I do not oversee Lori’s blog as I have no desire or interest to do so and not enough time in the day to oversee it. I am happy to participate in the blog from time to time, and enjoy listening to the many women each week thank her for her ministry. She teaches me many things from her many hours of reading each day and she has been blogging prolifically for many years now with great success in healing marriages and building up Christian women. It is obvious that you disagree with the concept of a wife’s willful submission to her husband as clearly taught in the scriptures, which is OK. You are welcome to hold whatever view of life and God’s Word as you choose. But please try to not make things up as if somehow Lori’s view of submission means I am overseeing her activities. I don’t have any interest in controlling her or her life, but simply want her to be happy and fulfilled, which the blog helps her become, as she is used by the Lord to touch others with her story and wisdom.

    Second, you seem to not understand the heart of Christianity when you write, “Ouch! So if a husband decides his wife is not submissive enough, he gets to question her salvation?” My wife’s faith is based on her relationship with Christ and the cross, and not based on her perfection or even listening to her husband. We are not Mormons who may believe that a wife requires her husband’s hand to enter eternity. She has a personal faith that is in no jeopardy because of anything I may say or do.

    That said, I trust you understand that for the true Christian Believer, we are all about the Lordship of Jesus Christ and submitting to His will. We understand that we don’t go in and out of salvation because we sin, or do not listen to Him, but because of His great love for us, we chose to obey Him, even as we are not perfect followers. So by such a definition, and a classic one held throughout the centuries in Christianity, why should any Believer shy away from reminding another as to how God wants us to walk, talk and to be lights for Him in a fallen world? We are not afraid of following God at His Word because we have come to understand that He is always right.

    I can only assume that you know there is a huge difference between real Christians and those who may use Christianity as a weapon to control and degrade others, leading them astray. I am referring to cults or cult-like gatherings. When you try to paint conservatives who believes in both submission and husband leadership with your slanted view of these subjects based on your bad past experiences, you fail to see the millions of Christians who are effectively living out marriages where a husband like me truly loves and admires his wife, and she in turn truly desires to submit and please me. Neither of us are compelled solely by what Christ asks of us, but we choose voluntarily to fulfill the vows we made to each other, to love each other for a lifetime. Love casts out fear, and neither of us are fearful of the other, but rather enjoy the connections and intimacy we share based on trust. Something most marriages aspire to, but rarely obtain because selfishness interferences.

    You have read Lori’s writings enough to know full well that she does not condone physical abuse of any form, and we do teach couples to talk to each other about what they might do by way of touch to help the other come out of a dark place of moods, misbehavior or even depression and anxiety. Whatever a spouse does with the other should be talked about and agreed to in advance, so that should answer your question: that we do indeed believe that generally a husband should not act unilaterally in helping his wife. Obviously if she is going to harm herself he must act, but that is not the case in this discussion. We also believe that a wife can help a husband “snap out of it” at times if the two will first decide how to they can help handle such upsetting times in advance.

    Obviously you mischaracterizations of me are not appreciated, and you are welcome to your world view, but not in making up a new and untrue reality. My hope is that you will be more accurate in your writings, and that you will come to realize that although we may be in the solidly conservative Bible believing camp, there are the vast majority of us who have healthy, wonderful marriages with zero control, now that our wives have stopped trying to control us. And we have no desire to control them, only to live in peace, harmony and love with them. We understand the nature of submission that it must be willful, and we also understand the nature of misbehavior by a husband or wife. That unfortunately sometimes, until a nice, considerate husband stand up to and challenge his difficult wives to consider what God asks of her, she will continue down a path of destructive behavior for the marriage. Husbands can do the same destruction, but Lori’s blog is about Christian women learning to play out the role God asks of them… so much of what is written is pertaining to Christian women. I have written on a Christian husband’s responsibilities if you care to read it, and they are every bit as demanding, or more demanding on his life than his wife’s, in order to please God. God wants both husband and wife to be loving, and neither to be controlling in any way.

    Thank you for allowing me to set the record straight. You may have a ministry in finding abuse in the church, or marriage blogs, but be careful not to jumped to so many unfounded conclusions and wrong conclusions. Not everyone who asks a wife to submit is a “bully.” Some of us are doing the loving thing to ask a wife to consider her own values and beliefs. If I had asked her to be kind, gentle, patient, loving, good to me would that have made me a bully? Those things are also Biblical requirements of all Christians, and demanded of our Lord Jesus.

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  11. “You have read Lori’s writings enough to know full well that she does not condone physical abuse of any form”

    Oh, sure. That’s why you proclaimed Cabinetman a hero, right? And Cabinetman says, “we do not believe marital rape is possible” and “We also believe that denying a spouse sex is just as much abuse as forcing sex upon a spouse.”

    https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2015/01/08/marital-rape-is-it-even-a-possibility-in-christian-marriage/comment-page-1/

    This man is your hero. I guess marital rape isn’t abuse to you.

    Liked by 2 people

  12. Hi Been There Done That,

    I believe we are talking about a disagreement on a definition here. Cabinetman does not believe that a husband should force sex upon his wife, and if a husband forces himself in any physical way on his wife, sex or without sex, it may indeed be assault, but it cannot be marital rape, in most cases. Assault yes, but rape no. One cannot be accused of having sex with someone he has a marital contract to have sex with AND who is generally sleeping in the same bed.

    I will add that it may be possible to have what you want to label as “marital rape” if a wife is estranged from a husband, or separated, or has the intent to divorce. In such cases you might be able to argue “marital rape” is possible. But if a husband and wife live in the same home, and have marital relations from time to time, and then a husband forces himself upon a wife, how can one claim “rape” when she has been giving him sex all along? No, it is best to call it assault perhaps, but not rape. It is clearly wrong and there needs to be legal protections in place against such assaults for such messed up marriages.

    So I believe we are dealing with semantics here, and Cabinetman would be the first to tell you no husband should force himself upon a wife, not just for legal reasons, but because it is unChristian and unChristlike. A husband must patiently wait for his wife to allow sex, no matter how disobedient to the Word of God she may be.

    Lastly, I know it is hard for many to understand that context plays a role in everything that is written or said, especially in understanding the scriptures. I called Cabinetman a “hero” for his willingness to work with his difficult wife to help her move from a messed up situation to a terrific marriage relationship. She was messed up, dealing with many things in her life, yet he loved her enough to save her and their family. I know you and your group of hyper-critical types will see what you want to see in his story, and he admits that he could have told it better, or given a fuller explanation, but the reality is that he heroically stayed with her until she discovered that what he was doing in moving her was the very most loving thing he could. Love sometimes requires standing up and saying “no” I am not going to take this anymore. And he in no way abused her… but again you want to read between the lines and see abuse behind many men. Funny that you understand this so clearly if a woman does it to a man, but can’t grasp it when a loving husband stands firm against his difficult wife.

    Again, see what you want to see, just understand that sometimes one’s agenda and personal past experiences colors what they see in life, or understand. Both Cabinetman and me live in terrific marriages with super wives after enduring many years of heartache with them. Both have found that their need to control was at the root of the problems, and neither Cabinetman nor I are controlling of our wives in any way. But we are not bashful in letting the world know that we love our wives enough to both patiently wait upon them, and if necessary challenge them to consider living up to their own values. Just as our wives are not bashful in doing the same with us.

    Like

  13. “I will add that it may be possible to have what you want to label as “marital rape” if a wife is estranged from a husband, or separated, or has the intent to divorce. In such cases you might be able to argue “marital rape” is possible. But if a husband and wife live in the same home, and have marital relations from time to time, and then a husband forces himself upon a wife, how can one claim “rape” when she has been giving him sex all along? No, it is best to call it assault perhaps, but not rape.”

    You and your wife clearly should not be counseling married couples when you aren’t up to speed on legalities. You may find yourself an accessory to a crime.

    “Marital rape in United States law, also known as spousal rape, is non-consensual sex in which the perpetrator is the victim’s spouse. It is a form of partner rape, of domestic violence, and of sexual abuse. Marital rape is today illegal in all 50 US states.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape_(United_States_law)

    “I called Cabinetman a “hero” for his willingness to work with his difficult wife”

    He didn’t work with her at all. He stuck her out in the shed.

    Like

  14. Ken said,
    “Assault yes, but rape no. One cannot be accused of having sex with someone he has a marital contract to have sex with AND who is generally sleeping in the same bed.”
    ——
    If sex with the wife is done without wife’s consent, that is in fact rape – biblical, legal, moral, however you want to define it, it’s rape.

    Like

  15. I will add that it may be possible to have what you want to label as “marital rape” if a wife is estranged from a husband, or separated, or has the intent to divorce. In such cases you might be able to argue “marital rape” is possible. But if a husband and wife live in the same home, and have marital relations from time to time, and then a husband forces himself upon a wife, how can one claim “rape” when she has been giving him sex all along? No, it is best to call it assault perhaps, but not rape. It is clearly wrong and there needs to be legal protections in place against such assaults for such messed up marriages.

    Ken,

    It is obvious by your comments that I have not mis-characterized you. You seem to be inventing your own definition of rape, and guess what? It means nothing legally or spiritually; it’s just your personal opinion. I find you to be a scary man. I hope and pray that women do not put themselves in harm’s way by reading your dangerous words.

    Like

  16. Ken and Lori not only obscure the seriousness of marital rape, they also downplay the deaths of children due to the Pearl’s “training” methods:

    “Also, never believe the reports that say a child was killed by parents who have To Train Up A Child in their home.”

    https://web.archive.org/web/20140726035721/http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2014/02/believing-in-corporal-punishment.html

    Never mind that “investigators said both sets of parents had followed advice from To Train Up a Child, a copy of which was reportedly found in both homes.
    Michael Ramsey, a district attorney who prosecuted the Schatzes, said he was planning to mention the book as a contributing factor if the case had come to trial.
    Though he did not want to detract from the parents’ responsibility in causing Lydia’s death, he said the book’s ideas were “wholeheartedly embraced by the Schatzes”, and “the entire philosophy of the book is intended to lead someone down that slope”.”

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25268343

    Never believe the reports? The children were, indeed, “killed by parents who have To Train Up A Child in their home,” and were actively practicing its advice.

    I think Ken and Lori are deliberately misleading.

    Like

  17. On the other side of the coin, did anyone notice how much this woman alluded to arguing? She mentions endless arguing, arguing to exhaustion, talking it out ad nauseum, homes filled with strife and arguing, talking it to death… It seems we are discussing a perpetual control battle, not an effort of 2 persons who love and respect each other to communicate and enjoy life together.

    Like

  18. It’s always interesting when someone has to go to great lengths to “set the record straight” with someone else who has exposed them or disagreed with them. What was it that Will Shakespeare said? Something about “Methinks he doth protest too much.” If Ken “doesn’t have time” to oversee Lori’s web site (hard to believe since he comments there), how come he has time to write long explanations about how wrong you are? Hm.

    Proverbs 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.

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