Insidious Behavior at The Village Church Regarding a Pedophile and His Former Wife

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Horrific story of spiritual abuse, mishandling of sex abuse, church membership, Matt Chandler, The Village Church, Jordan Root, pedophile, child pornography

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I woke up late this morning and checked my Twitter feed to find that many of my Twitter friends were shocked and appalled at the treatment of Karen Hinkley (formerly Karen Root) by Matt Chandler’s church, The Village Church.

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The Village Church, Matt Chandler, Jordan Root, pedophile, sex abuse, spiritual abuse

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Amy Smith, aka @watchkeep on Twitter, is an advocate for abuse survivor, a twitterer extraordinaire, and a champion for exposing truth. She compiled a shocking article presenting primary source documents and screenshots of text messages about this situation.

We don’t need to wonder why people are leaving churches. This is a prime example of why I will never, ever, ever sign a dotted line to become a member of a church.

I will briefly summarize the story, but please read Amy’s article here: She Speaks: The Village Church protects a confessed pedophile and “disciplines” his wife, a brave young woman and missionary

Also, The Wartburg Watch will be covering follow-up stories next week. I am so grateful for Amy and Dee who expose this nonsense. Hopefully, by shining the light on these types of stories, others will not have to suffer the same kind of pain Karen has experienced.

Imagine being on the mission field in a foreign country and finding out that your husband has been viewing child pornography. Imagine having to pack up your belongings and come back home to your sending church and wonder what your future holds.

Karen released a statement. The bulk of the statement is to make sure that the truth is exposed. She rightly shares this concern:

It is my sincere hope that Jordan has not sexually abused any children, but I believe the circumstances warrant his exposure so that any victims who might be out there can be identified and given an opportunity for justice and healing.

However, these two key paragraphs are worth noting. This is a common pattern we see in churches that do not handle sex abuse cases well. They will defend the perpetrator and victims of the abuser are treated as if they are the primary problem:

The inclination towards minimization and secrecy that the pastors and elders of The Village Church have displayed is inexcusable. And the spiritual abuse I have experienced at their hands is unacceptable from those who would represent Jesus Christ. Jesus cares deeply for the vulnerable and the voiceless. He speaks strongly against those who would victimize children, and he went toe-to-toe with the religious bullies of his day who “tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.” (Matthew 23) The treatment of Jordan as the victim and me as the perpetrator by the leadership of the church is an appalling reversal that evidences priorities that are not in line with the Word of God.

And this one:

Pastors and elders of The Village Church, I urge you to rethink your hasty and public declaration of Jordan’s repentance and require him to seek out appropriate treatment for the nature and seriousness of his issues. I also urge you to conduct a thorough inquiry into how this situation unfolded and reform any policies and practices that contributed to your failure to respond appropriately. 

In Amy’s blog article, you will find a note Karen wrote to the leaders at The Village Church informing them that she is withdrawing her membership from the church. She also stated that she filed for an annulment from her pedophile husband.

A week or so later, she received this letter which outlined that The Village Church was putting her in church discipline for not allowing the church leadership to “care” for her. Furthermore, her soon-to-be ex-husband was NOT put in church discipline.

We have been perplexed by your decision to file for an annulment of your marriage without first abiding by your covenant obligations to submit to the care and direction of your elders. As I mentioned in my first letter, this decision violates your covenant with us – and places you under discipline. Per section 10.5 of The Village Church bylaws, you are prohibited from voluntarily resigning membership while subject to the formal disciplinary process. We cannot, therefore, accept your resignation. – See more at: http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/#sthash.f9fRwy2Y.dpuf

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The article documents statements pastors at The Village Church which defend Jordan Root, wanting to protect his reputation, for fear that people come to wrong conclusions. You really need to read the whole article and documents for yourself.

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212 comments on “Insidious Behavior at The Village Church Regarding a Pedophile and His Former Wife

  1. The weird thing is all the paid and UNPAID babysitting he has done. This is usually something men don’t do on a normal basis.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. “The fact is that they didn’t want to go public with the information that they had a pedophile in their midst, because it could have tarnished their image, and that might affect the mega-church franchise that they are building.”

    There is this coming up in 5 months and it sounds like a big deal for Dallas, since it’s being held at the “grandest of all national stages” and all. lol–’cause you know THAT”S what makes Christians…a grand stage. Anyway, Chandler is on the advisory team-how would it look for TVC’s image to be in a controversy of this kind?

    “The Harvest America annual evangelistic crusade led by California megachurch pastor Greg Laurie will be held at AT&T Stadium, the home of the Dallas Cowboys, in November, the organizers have announced.

    “Public proclamations of the gospel are disappearing across the national landscape,” Laurie said in a statement. “I believe that Dallas-Fort Worth is one of the last bastions of a strong gospel culture, but unless we fortify the status quo, I fear it will gradually slip away. That is why I feel an urgency to join with churches across denominational lines to do something big and bold in this community on what may be the grandest of all national stages – AT&T Stadium

    The advisory team includes Dr. Mark Bailey of Dallas Theological Seminary; Pastor Matt Chandler of The Village Church; Dr. Tony Evans of Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship; Dr. Jack Graham of Prestonwood Baptist Church; Dr. Robert Jeffress of First Baptist Church of Dallas; and Pastor Robert Morris of Gateway Church.

    Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/greg-lauries-harvest-america-2015-to-be-held-at-home-of-dallas-cowboys-in-november-135368/#b21UL5Qxi4jDIPvA.99

    Like

  3. Diane, Oh how I agree with the advisory team being quite the cast. If only John Piper were on it, it would be enough to turn me off. With the others on the line up, my stomach turns.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. I heartily second everything Keith Blankenship had to say this morning at 6:14: AM, including:

    “1) Don’t sign anything. If a church wants you to sign a contract go elsewhere.”

    I would add that, if you have already signed a contract, usually called a covenant, or if you have accepted a constitution and/or bylaws, or whatever, by any means (baptism, responding to an invitation to come for membership, etc.), or if you have in any other way even arguably bound yourself to accept church discipline (even regular attendance may be dangerous), get out. Go elsewhere. Get out and go elsewhere now!

    There is especial danger if the Covenant/Membership Agreement/Constitution/Bylaws/etc. contain a provision prohibiting you from withdrawing membership once church discipline has been instituted against you. Do not, do not, by remaining a member (or even a regular attender), give anybody the opportunity to commence church discipline against you.

    A good article on how to resign from church membership is posted at The Wartburg Watch Here: http://tinyurl.com/kqunayx

    Like

  5. “Public proclamations of the gospel are disappearing across the national landscape,” Laurie said in a statement. “I believe that Dallas-Fort Worth is one of the last bastions of a strong gospel culture, but unless we fortify the status quo, I fear it will gradually slip away.”

    That is so melodramatic. Their chronic mishandling and minimization of abuse, plus their grasp for celebrity fame, power, and money is what’s causing their institution to “[disappear] across the national landscape.”

    Liked by 2 people

  6. I have been heartsick for the past few days over these two compelling stories. I think many of us here on SSB are triggered by the stupidity and meanness that we see in so much of organized religion–their action and lack of action goes beyond being naive–it is an intentional suppressing of truth, justice and mercy. It is about controlling the narrative and the congregants–it is not about truth, righteousness or justice. God, save us from ourselves!

    Brenda Ratcliff

    Liked by 5 people

  7. So, what we have here is an example of The Village Church, (a Southern Baptist Church?) failing to recognize, or attempting to prevent or impede, a member’s resignation, thereby purportedly retaining coercive authority over the one who would depart. Village Church appears to have taken a page from the Mormon playbook. See http://www.mormonresignation.com/

    Liked by 3 people

  8. Brenda, (not to be confused wtih Brenda R)

    It has been a difficult few days. My heart goes out to all survivors. You can’t help but be sucked into the emotions with all of the triggering responses.

    Like

  9. Brenda I am heartbroken as well. This has to be spoken out against firmly and strongly.

    Here is a good read:http://www.wickedshepherds.com/ShouldPastorsBeCaredFor.html

    Part of his quote on this article:
    “What we will do in this article, as we do in all of our articles, is to put the Word of God ahead of all man-made teachings and creeds which leave off the “every word” part of Christ’s statement to the adversary in Matthew 4:4, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.”

    If the Word shatters cherished beliefs, then we are willing to be shattered, no matter how painful it is. Isn’t God’s Truth more important than personal belief, and loyalty to that Truth more important than loyalty to traditions, the commandments of men, or our local church?

    When we are willing to drop all our pre-conceived ideas and ask the Lord for His wisdom and only His wisdom, then we will be on the right path to learning what is truth and what is error. When we become willing to believe what God will teach us, regardless of what anyone says, then we will be on the right path to learning truth.

    It is a shameful tragedy that many men will exert such anti-biblical rule and control over the saints of God and brazenly assert that binding your consciences to care for your pastors is in harmony, even the requirement, of our Lord Jesus Christ. What is needful is for God’s people to realize that what IS in harmony, and what IS a requirement of our Lord Jesus Christ is to expose and stand in opposition to this outrageous claim by those who “lord it over” those in the church.

    The world has become, as Jesus foretold, a field of wheat and tares; a field of genuine believers and counterfeits. These are indeed perilous times we live in. The devil’s favorite place to trap people and bring them into bondage is not your local tavern or drug dealer, nor is it with religions like Hinduism, Islam, etc. No, the devil’s favorite place to render powerless God’s people is a pulpit in a church that advertises itself as a “God glorifying” and “Christ-centered” church.

    We need to very carefully examine ourselves and ask where our loyalties rest. Have we believed and practiced something just because our church or pastor said it was biblical and true?

    Can’t we see how dangerous this is?

    “Now the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually examined. But he that is spiritual examines all things, and he himself is examined of no man.” 1 Corinthians 2:14-15″

    I think that this “care of pastors” is not only a monetary thing, but also extends to emotionally and spiritually coddling the pastor or elders. They have been acting like Divas. As we see with Karen (and others) these pastors are expecting that their very existence depends on others to keep the church going for quote “the Gospels sake”.
    Whatever!! It does not matter if sin runs rampant, the IC is god!

    Like

  10. Pingback: “The Explicit Gospel” at Matt Chandler’s “The Village” Includes Child Pornography, Church Discipline and Membership Covenants | Wondering Eagle

  11. Here is Richard Hammer’s (Harvard-educated attorney) infographic showing the top reasons that churches are sued every year. This is from his website Church & Tax Law.

    Reason No. 1 – each and every year – child sexual abuse.
    http://www.churchlawandtax.com/web/2014/july/top-5-reasons-churches-end-up-in-court.html

    The Village Church has a huge legal liability with this man Jordan they are defending.
    The leadership can be criminally prosecuted for not reporting as they are required to do by law; the church can also be sued civilly for any child(ren) that were sexually abused there.

    Like

  12. “Here was the article that mentioned that Josh Duggar was sent to a Gothard facility:”

    Yes, I saw that. Then I read JimBob could not remember the name of the facility they sent Josh to. I find that hard to believe, if it was a Gothard facility. How could you forget that? And Michelle said Josh was sent to a friend’s home to help remodel something.

    “Jim Bob then “met with the elders of his church and told them what was going on.” No one alerted the police or any other law enforcement agency. Instead they decided to send Josh to a “program [that] consisted of hard physical work and counseling. James said that [redacted, Josh] was in the program from March 17, 2003 until July 17, 2003.”

    He said the program was a “Christian program.” Michelle Duggar later admitted to police that Josh did not receive counseling and instead had been sent during that time to a family friend who was in the home remodeling business.

    Asked about the training center that Jim Bob said Josh was sent to, Michelle told police, according to the report, “it was not really a training center. Det. [Darrell] Hignite asked if the guy [redacted, Josh] talked to was a certified counselor. She said no. She said it was a guy they know in Little Rock that is remodeling a building. Det. Hignite asked if the guy was more of a mentor. She said “kind of.””

    Liked by 2 people

  13. From Patheos-

    “James said that they found out about a Christian program in Little Rock which they felt more comfortable with. James said that he could not remember the name of the program, but that it was conducted by a Christian ministry in the old Veterans Hospital in Little Rock and the man who ran it was Harold Walker. James said that he thought that the program was affiliated with the Little Rock Police Department since they had a station in the same building. James said that the program consisted of hard physical work and counseling. James said that [Josh] was in the program from March 17, 2003 until July 17, 2003.

    As for the program Josh was sent to,

    Michelle [Duggar] told police, according to the report, “it was not really a training center. Det. [Darrell] Hignite asked if the guy [redacted, Josh] talked to was a certified counselor. She said no. She said it was a guy they know in Little Rock that is remodeling a building. Det. Hignite asked if the guy was more of a mentor. She said “kind of.””

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/05/22/after-he-was-accused-of-child-molestation-josh-duggars-family-did-everything-wrong/

    If the old Vets building and Harold Walker are of the Gothard training center, how could JimBpb NOT remember that?

    Liked by 2 people

  14. I am so full of words but can’t get anything on the page.

    This is the garbage that’s taken me years to crawl out from under. And this teaching is so prevalent in the church, it’s almost impossible to get away from.
    (I’m reeling from the “mingling of souls” clip– How proud he looks of the little wifey.)

    Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw:
    “Jesus, Please Save Us From Your Followers.”

    Liked by 3 people

  15. Here is something about Integrity Construction–evidently. this was a part of Gothard’s center at one time. This might explain the remodeling training Josh was sent to while living with that friend.

    “Dailey said he’d called Gothard to get an update of what was happening with the training center. The training center, which features a huge, but unmanned and quiet, wood-paneled lobby with a maroon carpeting and chairs upholstered in white fabric, employs seven people, director R.T. Spivey said. It serves the chaplains in the IBLP’s PAL prison program. At one time, the training center operated the “Integrity Construction Institute” for young men, but that program has moved to Alpena.

    I’m trying to track down the “Integrity Construction Institute (“for young men”) – various outfits are called “Integrity Construction”, but the ‘for young men’ bit, and Michelle Dugar’s “remodeling a building” makes it sound like they used ‘troubled’ young men as free labour for construction projects. And all owned by Bill Gothard, good friend of Mike Huckabee, governor of Arkansas from 1996 to 2007.”

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026715306

    Like

  16. Just listened to the Matt Chandler video on the watch keep blog…. that was scary. Reminded me of “narcissistic rage” when the narc gets his ego ruffled by anyone daring to question or express objection regarding his abusive or manipulative behavior. Also this brought to mind that the narc will use “projection” and “blame shifting” and accuse his target of what he is guilty of. This is just my personal opinion based on what I’ve read via Psychology resources about NPD and related issues.

    Liked by 2 people

  17. I think I should apologize for posting that Lauren Chandler video about a wife’s response to her husband’s sexual sin.

    I posted it so people reading would get a glimpse of what possible counsel one could expect to receive if a wife found herself in that situation. The video was beyond disgusting. I am very sorry that I didn’t include a warning that the contents would be troubling to some readers here. I should have been more sensitive to that.

    I apologize and will try to remember to post a warning next time. Since I have no experience with spiritual abuse or complementarian theology, it’s easy for me to just post and forget that the precious people reading here have had horrible experiences with the things I am posting and that it will bring back memories. Please forgive me for my lack of sensitivity to you.

    Like

  18. As this church is SBC, and they are just about everywhere, people will get the impression that Christians support pedophiles over the non-pedophile spouse. And it will not do to tell people “well, each congregation is independent” or “they are Baptists, I am Wesleyan or Lutheran or (insert your denomination here).”

    Many people will get the impression that Christians have it upside down.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. Here is the thing also- Chandler and Co. will rant, then say they are sorry.
    This is just a way to use “shock and awe” and then lessen the blow by a half-hearted apology.
    All of us know what is going on- Chandler and the rest of you so-called so-called shepherds.

    Like

  20. scott said

    By the way, a few topics ago I mentioned I was considering joining the church I have been attending since like March. If I ever mention that again could someone please hold me accountable (I busted up typing that) with a ball peen hammer to the back of the head ? I think that perhaps skipping communion and remaining a NON-member is the way to go.

    For you (with affection, and at your request):

    “Snap out of it, Scott!”
    “Snap Out of It!” Video on You Tube

    Like

  21. So these “shepherds” at this Southern Baptist “church” decide they need to do some preemptive damage control, and they send all the members an email to prepare them for the fact that their own Jordan Root has some unidentified sin problem. How do the title the email? Do they title it “Important News about Jordan Root?” Oh no. They title it “Important News about Jordan and KAREN Root.” (Emphasis added).

    What’s with that? Do these cultural and spiritual descendants of slave owners think women are so inextricably subsumed into their husbands’ identities that a husband’s sin cannot be addresses without bringing his wife into the conversation?

    The email was dated April 1, 2015. Would that the folly had been limited to April Fools Day.

    Like

  22. Daisy said:

    the dad and some other adult men were in the middle of having a conversation about how they would need to tell the teen girls to bind up their chests even more because their figures might be too distracting or tempting for the boys

    Why is it that men in gender comp always get off scot free, while the women are stuck paying the price, or shouldering the responsibility, for what men have done?

    Yes. It seems in the comp world, whenever they claim women have some weakness (sin of Eve, PMS, other obnoxious notions…), that becomes a reason for a limitation on what women can do (speak in church, lead a group, …).

    Whereas whenever men actually demonstrate a weakness (lusted, committed adultery, abused children, other horrifying acts…), that also becomes a reason for a limitation on what women can do (annul a marriage or leave the church without elder approval, dress “immodestly”, …).

    Liked by 2 people

  23. Ok guys this is getting “better” (sarcastic)…….. I do not if anyone else has posted this
    http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2015/may/josh-duggar-of-19-kids-and-counting-apologies-resigns-after.html

    “In 2006, police interviewed Jim Bob and Josh’s mother, Michelle. According to InTouch:
    Jim Bob told police in 2006 that when Josh returned home in 2003, Jim Bob, accompanied by some of his church elders, took Josh to Arkansas State Trooper, Jim Hutchens. Jim Bob knew Hutchens personally. Hutchens did not take any official action and instead gave Josh a “very stern talk.” As In Touch magazine reports exclusively in this week’s issue, Hutchens is now serving 56-years in prison for child pornography. He took no action on the Duggar case.”

    Liked by 2 people

  24. “We have been perplexed by your decision to file for an annulment of your marriage without first abiding by your covenant obligations to submit to the care and direction of your elders. As I mentioned in my first letter, this decision violates your covenant with us – and places you under discipline. ”

    Kiss pedophile bottom, discipline woman who hates for children to be sexually exploited, got it. Any one who continues going to this church or respecting these men do not hate child sexual abuse.

    Every day I see Christians picking men, money, and power over sexually exploited children.

    Submit.
    Discipline.
    Authority.

    Same things men who keep sex slaves to sexually terrorize are obsessed with.

    When I hear stories like Ariel Castro and Phillip Garrido, they remind me of what many Christian men are trying to create for themselves and other men.

    I was sexually abused the first ten years of my life by a southern Baptist misogynistic Christian man who was fixated with female submission to men. My father was also a misogynist fixated with man power, my father tried to get be to believe that rape was not that big of a deal. Getting women and children to think sexual abuse is something to get over quickly is very important to many Christian men, I wonder why.

    We can see that many of you do not think sexual abuse is prison worthy.

    I believe that most of Christianity is about man power. Loser, creepy, petty men who cant handle the real world and are scared women or little girls would tell them they are vile and to take a long walk off a short pier, something that should have been said to my self worshipping father. They have created a culture that is all about MEN getting their bottoms kissed, how dare a woman to not kiss MALE bottom, to not want to be married to a man who looks at child porn.

    Most Christian men in my family were sexually sadistic towards under age girls, they decided they deserved female submission, just like any man who has a sex slave in a cage, we were to kiss male bottom at all cost.

    I am a survivor of hyper conservative Christianity, ( man power) woman/girl submit like a canine and sex slave.

    I am not a dog! It hurts very much to live like a canine or sex slave in bondage, many Christian men have the spirit of Ariel Castro, they really do.

    I hope as a survivor of this misogynistic/slavery/misery that people start putting many Christian men in the same category with Ariel Castro and Phillip Garrido, as someone who grew up in this I will say, they deserve to be there!

    Liked by 1 person

  25. @100PinkApples,

    I don’t know if you saw my comment to you here on another story: You are an awesome write and awesome woman!

    Many years ago I was riding a bus in the San Francisco Bay Area and the transit system had poems posted on the inside. I could never shake this one poem…and I wanted to share it with you.

    “Paper Matches

    My aunts washed dishes while the uncles
    squirted each other on the lawn with
    garden hoses. Why are we in here,
    I said, and they are out there?
    That’s the way it is,
    said Aunt Hetty, the shriveled-up one.
    I have the rages that small animals have,
    being small, being animal.
    Written on me was a message,
    “At Your Service,”
    like a book of paper matches.
    One by one we were taken out
    and struck.
    We come bearing supper,
    our heads on fire.”
    ― Paulette Jiles

    Like

  26. BeenThereDoneThat said,

    “Public proclamations of the gospel are disappearing across the national landscape,” Laurie said in a statement.

    Does Laurie’s faith hinge on the public display of a Christian plaque or a Jesus statue?

    I used to get worked up over this sort of thing. I’m still conservative.

    No, I don’t agree when extreme liberals or militant atheists have fits over this stuff either, but I’m tired of Christians who keep pitching fits about this sort of thing too.

    I am not even sure Christians should take it (it = lack of public expression of the faith) as a barometer of how the Christian faith is doing.

    I think when the Christian faith began, believers in Jesus (mostly Jewish guys at the start, I think) were persecuted back then, and then Christians were persecuted under the ancient Romans.

    I don’t think Christians back in Rome early A.D. had monuments and plaques honoring Jesus all over their cities….. and they did okay. I mean, the faith did not go away. (Which is not to say I support over-zealous atheists, humanists, etc, trying to force Christians to keep their faith in private only.)

    But I no longer on fire for the Christians who make so much out of prayer being removed from public schools, and so on.

    As far as Laurie’s comments about Christian monuments being removed from public squares. I assume he means things such as sculptures of The Ten Commandments?

    I think I read some time back that the first time the Ten Commandments were put in public, it was by a Hollywood studio to PROMOTE A MOVIE ABOUT MOSES.

    This is from a page called:
    “6 Iconic Things You Won’t Believe Began as Publicity Stunts”
    #5. The Public Ten Commandments Monuments Were Created to Promote the Movie

    Like

  27. Or, P.S.

    Maybe I misread Laurie’s comments, and he meant by “public proclamations,” that there are no longer as many Billy Graham type crusades going on?

    Does the Bible say to hold large scale, Billy Graham type crusades? Or does Jesus say to approach your neighbor, or small groups of people (as in the book of Acts).

    I don’t recall God saying in the New Testament that only large- scale, football stadium sized, Christian evangelizing functions or contexts (which is what Laurie does with his Harvest Crusades, like Billy Graham used to) were the only godly, or only approved way, of reaching the un-saved.

    (I’m not arguing against stadium crusade type things per se, by the way. I’m just saying I don’t think they are absolutely necessary to spread the Gospel.)

    Like

  28. “(I’m not arguing against stadium crusade type things per se, by the way. I’m just saying I don’t think they are absolutely necessary to spread the Gospel.)”

    There was a local Christian event here recently that was held in a university football stadium. Churches sent busloads of people from out of town to attend.

    Two of the keynote speakers were a local couple who have a HGTV fixer-upper show. I assume they were hand picked by event organizers because they would draw a crowd. A neighbor who lives across the street from them says that once a month they get into a screaming fight that ends up in the front yard. I’m sure that’s not what they shared with the crowd.

    Liked by 1 person

  29. Diane posted a link to an atheist site about the Duggar story (Duggar Story on Atheist Site)

    I was just saying on the newer thread that I recently tried talking to some of my fellow conservatives and Republicans on a political blog about this.

    Some of them want to rally the troops around Duggar because the left might be using the Duggar story as anti-right fodder. I told them it’s really bad to put politics before child abuse or the victims.

    For me pointing some of this out on the political site, some of the more rude conservatives were hinting at me, or accusing me of, being a Democrat, liberal, or feminist (I am none of those things).

    What I find interesting about Diane’s link to the atheist site about the Duggar story:

    If atheists (and yes, liberals) are noticing that people on “your” side of politics or religion are misbehaving, and they noticing there are obvious problems in how your community is handling something, rather than automatically telling them to shut up, you might learn a thing or two from them.

    Just because they are your ideological opponents does not necessarily make their points wrong.

    I think conservatives and Christians should be among the first to call out abuse and protect victims when it happens in their own midst or by one of their own, not water it down and then yell and scream at the liberals or atheists who bring attention to it.

    Liked by 1 person

  30. Loretta said,

    Also this [video of Matt Chandler] brought to mind that the narc will use “projection” and “blame shifting” and accuse his target of what he is guilty of.

    Sorry to go a little off topic, but I just wanted to say this sounds like my big sister – she does that same stuff, though she’s never been diagnosed with NPD.
    I think my sister may be run of the mill self-absorbed. She is definitely verbally abusive.

    (Other than processing the death of my mother, my sister and her behavior has been one of the other big obstacles I’ve been having to slog through the last few years, and I’ve not had anyone to talk to in real life about it.)

    Like

  31. Yes, you did. When he told me specific details of how his elders were handling things and he was very humble on the phone with me, I had hope that things had a chance of changing. As soon as he had access to his social media platform, humility left. I was sad to see this.
    ____________________________________

    You know what JA? You have integrity, you can admit when you were wrong. That immediately puts you in the category of people with whom I’m acquainted who demonstrate Christ-like behavior. No knock on you for trying desperately to see the best in JD and hope beyond hope that he was capable of repentance and not just a full-blown monster. That too, is a sign that you are the Real Deal. And to admit it to someone as acerbic as me, all the more to your credit.

    Liked by 2 people

  32. Teaching boys to avert their eyes when seeing an “immodest” female is definitely taught in the Homeschool Movement. It’s part of the Purity Culture. I found that my boys wanted to become modesty police and they were on the lookout for any female who didn’t pass their test (which they learned from CON). Thankfully, after we left, things got back to normal again.
    _______________________________________________________

    We homeschool. We have more children than Doug & Beall Phillips. We are born-again Christians. But I say this not to put myself in opposition to you, JA, but to let you know that I know EXACTLY what you’re saying when you reference the “homeschool movement” as opposed to people who merely homeschool.

    We once ran with the so-called homeschool movement (in the Deep South no less!), attended their meetings, went to their conferences and tried our level best to get along with them. They do their utmost to make you think you need their fellowship (and when you’re fighting societal pressures of being thought perfectly mad because you have a huge family and have to listen to endless commentary from regular people such as “You know what causes that?”, “Must be something in the water!”, “Are you crazy?”, etc., it can be very tough to resist the “helping hand” of a “kindred spirit”) and you come to think you need it, but you find in time, with most of them I’ve met, that it comes at such a cost that I’d rather have my children run with right bleeding atheists than the average homeschooler.

    After running with them for a couple years we’d been thoroughly burned by a deeply disturbed homeschooling mother of many who tried her level best to put herself between us and our children and then, the coup de gras, those fine homeschooling families spread a vicious rumor that our oldest daughter had undergone an abortion at our direction. Total and absolute lies.

    Give me a forthright in-your-face bunch of atheists any day over a purity-loving idolatrous homeschooling family.

    Liked by 1 person

  33. “Give me a forthright in-your-face bunch of atheists any day over a purity-loving idolatrous homeschooling family.” truthdetector

    I hear ‘ya! I was invited to go out to lunch and hiking by two gay men (hairdressers) the week after I was ordered to be excommunicated/shunned from my church of eight years and to be treated as dead. (My crime? I wasn’t ‘on board’ with the pastors/elders giving membership to their friend a convicted sex offender on Megan’s List and putting him in to positions of trust and leadership without telling all parents and members. They excommunicated/shunned anyone that dissented. First up to be treated so despicably, a godly older doctor who is a long-time close personal friend of Pastor John MacArthur’s of the well-known Grace Community Church in Southern California.)

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  34. @ Michaela

    “awesome write” Lol

    I wish.

    I love Charlotte Bronte. Dyslexia is very annoying to those who appreciates good English.

    “I have the rages that small animals have,
    being small, being animal.”

    Many take advantage of the sad fact that animals cant speak and say, this scares me, this hurts me.

    Many think God screwed up giving women and children voices.

    The poem is really clever, I like it. Thank you Michaela 😉

    Like

  35. Diane,

    I understand the reason for your apology for putting up that video of Lauren Chandler addressing a husband’s infidelity. It bothered me as well, but it wasn’t a trigger since I have been out of an abusive cult for quite some time. Anyway, I was looking for the video and couldn’t find it on The Village’s website. I wanted to take a listen again for my own benefit, and for the benefit of any Christian woman that I may encounter who holds to this kind of erroneous view of marriage. If you could direct me to the place where you found the video, I’d appreciated it.

    Like

  36. @100pinkapples,

    I think you are an awesome writer! So clear. So transparent. You nail…so many topics. If you enjoy writing, I hope you will join some kind of writers group to cheer you on. (Sorry to hear about the dyslexia. I would have never known if you hadn’t said anything.)

    I’m glad you liked the “Paper Matches” poem by Paulette Jiles.

    You are a blessing to me and to the Spiritual Sounding Board.

    Liked by 1 person

  37. “Per section 10.5 of The Village Church bylaws, you are prohibited from voluntarily resigning membership while subject to the formal disciplinary process. We cannot, therefore, accept your resignation.”

    This is, frankly, quite comical to me. As if any religious group could prevent me from walking out the door without actual bloodshed, or at the very least an obscenity/profanity-laden shouting tirade. I would scream those people deaf. Give me a break. When did the modern church become a police state?

    Liked by 3 people

  38. Hi, the Matt Chandler video appears to be been pulled from Vimeo. From what I can tell, it was just an audio recording which is still available at:

    http://alvinreid.com/?p=1073 (And I find the content rather scary!)

    I have downloaded it and would encourages others to do the same in case it also disappears.

    Like

  39. Thank you, Ian. So interesting that the author refers to explosive churches in Dallas and fails to acknowledge Chandler’s explosive anger. I hope the author is not a church leader. I didn’t snoop around the site at all.

    Like

  40. Pingback: - PERSPECTIVE CRESTINE

  41. Sadly folks, the “church” in America is in ruins and this type of thing is all too common. Could it be because what we are calling church is not really the church? The majority of what we call church today is not church as described in the book of Acts. “Church” today is a man-made hierarchy system and many times results in exactly what this article describes. Although you or I may not agree with everything in this book; I recommend that everyone read, “Come Out of Her My People,” by Charles Newbold. It explains how most all churches are a form of the Babylonian system. The link is found here to the PDF book: http://www.charlesnewbold.com/books/TheHarlotChurchSystem.pdf I quit going to these institutional churches a long time ago and am still trying to heal from years of emotional and spiritual abuse from their doctrines and practices. The house church movement we hear about in China is probably the closest thing resembling the early church of Acts, but I’ve yet to find even a house church remotely like that…and so until we do we worship at home, and at times with a few other believers. We just don’t trust organized churches or their leadership, although certainly there are some good leaders and “churches” out there; I just personally have given up trying to find one after many many attempts.

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  42. “And this campus pastor: “Have we tried to help push her under our care?” Ugh! How much that unguarded wording reveals about the true mindset.”
    The first few times I read that post, I kept thinking about Driscoll bragging about how many people he had pushed under the church bus.
    It was only then I realized that it didn’t say “push her under our our CAR”.

    “Out of the fulness of the mind the mouth speaks”……..

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  43. This morning, I was looking through the list of adult classes and small groups available for the fall in the church I previously attend. One of the classes is on a deeper knowledge of the gospel. I thought, that sounds like a good one, UNTIL I saw that Matt Chandler was one of the co-writers of the book. Even if the book was completely scriptural I could not stomach reading it knowing what horse hockey has come from his “leading” at the Village Church. I just can’t do it.

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  44. Pingback: Spiritual Sounding Board’s Top 10 Blog posts of 2015 | Spiritual Sounding Board

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