Doug Phillips & Vision Forum, Homeschool Movement, Patriarchal-Complementarian Movement, Reconstructionist-Dominion Movement, Spiritual Abuse, Vision Forum, Voddie Baucham

Compelling Evidence that Vision Forum Inc. is Closing, Liquidating and Doug Phillips “Show” of Repentance Revealed

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There is now overwhelming evidence that the for-profit arm of Vision Forum is indeed closing at the end of the year.  Also, there are public statements alluding Doug Phillips’ public statement of repentance was not genuine.

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To save some time, I will relay each new development and brief summary in no particular order.  At the end of the post, I will post a timeline so you can see how it all fits together.

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Compelling Evidence of the End-of-Year Closing of Vision Forum Business

The biggest news you may have heard is that T. W. Eston at Jen’s Gems is reporting that Vision Forum, Inc., the for-profit arm, will be closing effective December 31, 2013. I’ve asked Mr. Eston if he could provide source information and he has respectfully declined in order to preserve his sources’ anonymity.

Today there were two new comments confirming Eston’s assertions of Vision Forum, Inc., closing:

TnT Says:
November 29, 2013 at 1:32 pm

I have numerous friends who are employed by VFI and have been told they will no longer have a job as of Dec. 31st, 2013. Tis true indeed.

noturniptruck Says:
November 29, 2013 at 4:42 pm

ditto! I can also verify that!

This most recent comment is the most revealing, seemingly coming straight from Vision Forum:

mike race Says:
November 30, 2013 at 11:10 am

In an email my wife received this morning from Vision Forum it stated this near the bottom:
“By placing an order you will be participating in our inventory liquidation sale. This means great prices for you as we liquidate our entire remaining inventory. Due to the nature of this sale, all purchases are final and returns will no longer be accepted. This is your last opportunity to buy our books, CDs, DVDs, and toys for you and your family, so get them before they’re gone!”

Be sure to take a look at the post, because there is a lot of information – especially in the comments.  But please keep in mind that none of it is confirmed with identifiable sources.  I checked the Vision Forum site and the Vision Forum blog and there is no notice of this.  

Incidentally, SSB blog reader loveoneanother, left this comment Monday:

Home School Enrichment Magazine just sent me a Black Friday ad for Vision Forum’s Catalog. I could see Vision Forum sending it to me, but another homeschool company? Doesn’t that seem like an inappropriate endorsement given the circumstances? Maybe I am reading into it too much!

loveoneanother forwarded the e-mail to me and I took a screenshot of part of it:

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BlackFridayVF

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You can see similar ads on the Vision Forum, Inc., website.  I’ll keep you posted if I get more credible information.    (I guess it doesn’t bother this homeschool business to promote Vision Forum’s wares, even under the current circumstances.)

Today at the Vision Forum site they are announcing the last day of Black Friday sale with 50% off everything.  Maybe tomorrow will be 70% off everything?

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San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival is Postponed for 2014

I’d like to bring your attention to another business venture (he’d probably say “ministry) of Phillips and Vision Forum.  In 2004, Doug Phillips founded the San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival (SAICFF) which boasted of a competition with generous cash rewards (approximately $100,000).  Just 10 days before Phillips’ first public statement, the following announcement was posted on the SAICFF website and Facebook page:

Update Oct. 21, 2013: The Christian Filmmakers Academy and SAICFF for 2014 have been postponed. Due in part to financial concerns and for other reasons, the Board of Vision Forum Ministries is looking to bring greater accountability to our practices and events, and therefore is allowing more time before launching this significant event once again.  October 22

Did you catch the phrase, “financial concerns and for other reasons?”  Inquiring minds want to know what other reasons.

Some notable friends of Doug Phillips weighed in on the conversation on the Facebook page announcement as people expressed their sadness about the cancellation:

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Screen Shot 2013-11-28 at 9.26.48 PM

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Screen Shot 2013-11-28 at 9.30.12 PM

Were these men privy to Phillips’ personal affair and troubles?  I wonder if we will ever find out.

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Voddie Baucham Reveals the Phillips Family Personal Damage Brought on by The “Esquire”

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Voddie Baucham has revealed more information that I have not seen published elsewhere. (Baucham was the first to publicly confirm that Phillips was no longer teaching elder at Boerne Christian Assembly.)  A Facebook reader asked on Baucham’s Facebook page:

I am struggling with these questions as a homeschooling mom who has a huge amount of Vision Forum products in her home therefore has allowed my children to be taught by Doug Phillips. What do I tell them? That he was living a lie? Of course the Bible is the final authority on everything. Basically if you were to come forward with a similar confession what weight would all the books that you have written carry?

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You can read the entire response here.  In the response, Baucham disclosed that Doug has lost his home due to the scandal:

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Warn them about the cost of sin. Tell them how Doug has damaged his marriage, lost his home, collapsed his ministry, and devastated his family spiritually, emotionally, and financially. Tell them how the enemies of God are rejoicing right now; how people like you are in turmoil.

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This was not any small home, but a 6,000 SF home.  Sadly, I predict a major lifestyle change for the Phillips family.

As of yet, no one has been willing to come forward and identify themselves publicly to share these kinds of details.   T.W. Eston (a pseudonym), who has recently begun submitting articles and responding to comments at Jen’s Gems blog, had this to say about the financial state that is to come upon the Phillips family.  Eston has been given this information by unnamed informants:

The board of directors has given until the end of the year for Doug and his family to move out of the ministry-owned house. The VFM board of directors will repossess (and may have already repossessed) any and all assets that Doug purchased with VFM monies for his personal use. This includes everything from automobiles, home furnishings, and perhaps even clothing. Some may view this as retaliatory on the part of the board (and perhaps it is to some degree), but the fact of the matter is they have a legal obligation to do everything they can to remedy any tax fraud and fiduciary malfeasance that Doug Phillips may have perpetrated.

The VFM board will be liquidating all VFM assets, including the house, home furnishings, office equipment and furnishings, all remaining inventory, and the Vision Forum office building at 4719 Blanco Road, San Antonio, starting January 1, 2014.

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Vision Forum YouTube Videos

On the Vision Forum’s YouTube page, there are quite a few new videos which were uploaded late September and early October, just about a month before Phillip’s announced he was stepping down from Vision Forum Ministries in his public statement.  This is a screenshot of the page in case it disappears, but presently, you can see the videos here.  The videos uploaded were part of the Vision Forum, Inc., for-profit arm and are advertisements for products in the Vision Forum catalog.  Why would someone make the effort to produce a bunch of videos if they thought their business ship was sinking?  This action convinces me that Phillips had full intentions of keeping his Vision Forum business afloat.

Narcissists think like that.  Just like the captain of the Titanic, they think they are invincible.

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In my snooping, I stumbled across something that could be part of the financial/business puzzle with regard to the Vision Forum business.  Vision Forum, Inc., had an affiliate program which was suspended late March of 2013.  This is what the website looked like before the program was suspended:    And this is what it looks like now:

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Vision Forum, Doug Phillips, Homeschool Movement, Affair, Scandal,
Source

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This may or may not be significant, but I haven’t seen anyone discuss it and the new change occurred the month following Phillips stepping down or being forced out of his teaching elder position at Boerne Christian Assembly in February of 2013.

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The Secret of Happiness in the Home

According to the FORGE (Families Obediently Restoring Godly Education) Ministries website, FORGE Ministries hosted a conference on September 5-7, 2013, in which Phillips spoke.   Phillips’ messages included:

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Session 1: The Doctrine of Fatherhood From Genesis to Revelation, Doug Phillips

And get a load of this next title:

Session 7: The Secret of Happiness in the Home, Psalm 128. Doug Phillips

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Do you think he canvassed his wife, Beall and his household to get a big “Amen” for that?

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Ancient Greece Tour

Vision Forum offered an Ancient Greece Tour and posted about it on their website.  Phillips was slated to teach on the tour, but ended up not teaching.   Did something come to light between the publishing of the trip itinerary and the actual trip that prevented Phillips from teaching?  Here is an excerpt from the website indicating Phillips would be teaching:

The Lord answered our prayers by granting us a top-of-the-line cruise ship, dedicated to our group. The tour will be 9-10 days beginning in Istanbul, Turkey and ending in Athens. Your teachers will be Dr. Joe Morecraft, Bill Potter, and myself.

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Public “Show” of Repentance by Doug Phillips

Last night, I posted an article, Doug Phillips: “Disowns” Former Vision Forum Executive Assistant to President, Peter Bradrick, Calls Him “Destroyer” When Confronted about Sins about Peter Bradrick coming out publicly on his Facebook page which he recently made public.  There is another revealing comment I found here from someone in the inner circle of Doug Phillips, Bob Renaud:

Screen Shot 2013-11-30 at 11.22.42 AM

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This is more clear evidence that Phillips has not repented as he has led us to believe by his two public statements.

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Timeline Recap

February of 2013:   seems to be the month that most people agree that he stepped down from Boerne Christian Assembly where he was one of two teaching elders (pastors).

March 26, 2013:  The Vision Forum, Inc., affiliate program at Vision Forum, Inc., was suspended.

August 2013:  A blog article by Doug Phillips, True Repentance.  Was he really thinking about his own repentance when he wrote/posted this article?  Or was this to benefit someone else?

September 5-7, 2013:   Phillips spoke at the FORGE Ministries conference.

September 20-20, 2013:  Ancient Greece Tour in which Phillips was slated to teach, but did NOT.

September 2013:  Many Vision Forum advertising videos were uploaded to the Vision Forum YouTube account.

October 21, 2013:   Board of Vision Forum Ministries canceled the Christian Filmakers Academy and events connected with San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival  (SAIFCC) (just 10 days before Phillips’ first public statement)

October 31, 2013:  Phillips issues first public statement

November 11, 2013:  Vision Forum Board announces the closing of Vision Forum Ministries.

November 14, 2013:  Doug Phillips issued “clarification” statement which only muddied the waters.

November 26-27, 2013:  Peter Bradrick comes forward publicly to share his involvement and pain.

November 28-29, 2013:   People coming out publicly on Peter Bradrick’s Facebook page insinuating that Doug Phillips profession of repentance may not be genuine.

November 30, 2013:  Notice on Vision Forum correspondence that they are liquidating inventory.

313 thoughts on “Compelling Evidence that Vision Forum Inc. is Closing, Liquidating and Doug Phillips “Show” of Repentance Revealed”

  1. Yes I did think that house was a bit more understated and tasteful than I would expect Doug’s house to be, lol!!! Another site has now posted the address and link but I will not post myself. It is huge!

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  2. If you wish to see the house, go to google maps, insert 200 Canada Verde, San Antonio, TX and then go to Google Earth. Big house, backs up to a golf course, end of two streets that meet in a circle by the house.

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  3. I couldn’t figure out how to reply to the comment on December 5, 2013 @ 2:54 AM, so I’m posting this down here. Go to the video linked on that comment and view beginning at the 5:00 minute mark. It sure looks like he was checking out his daughter.

    On a related (weird) note, we were at a conference earlier this year where he was speaking. After he gave a keynote message, he went and sat down with his family (the whole family was there) but only looked and talked to one of his daughters for a lengthy period of time (10+ minutes). It was like the two of them were all alone and completely oblivious to everyone else around them.

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  4. On another site I read that they are going to take a care package to “our hero” Doug Phillips C/O Jon Summers. This is what the letter says, “Please send cards and notes of thanksgiving to the Phillips family by December 14, c/o Jon Summers, 236 St. Louis Avenue, Ferguson, MO 63135, and we will make certain that they are included in a special care package that we will be sending to their home.”

    People, its time to get your “care package” together!

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  5. Didn’t Mr. Leininger donate the home to Vision Forum Ministries? If that’s the case, he no longer owns it, correct?

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  6. Zillow says the house is 3500 sq feet. That’s large but it’s not close to the 8,000 sq feet quoted above. Is it 3500 sq feet or 8000?

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  7. That’s right JA. He’s a mover and shaker about town . That’s why we’re alllll surprised when he joined up with Doug . My family has known them at least 30 years . Slot of financial backing came from Jim that’s why I asked yesterday why had nobody heard or said anything in regards to Jim or where he stands on this fall from grace. Jim’s a tough smart conservative dude and he won’t want any scandal attached . I’m not asking if he was involved in anything bad just where he stands on all of it. We’ve all wondered when he’d come take his house back and try and sell it again

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  8. Maxwell he did donate the house and many other things. But I also believe he’s somehow connected to the ministry so we assumed he’d get it all back but I have no idea how all that works. I’m no lawyer

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  9. Word has it that Mr.L has been far removed from Vision Forum Ministries for a long while and that the home was donated long ago. It is currently owned by VFM (501c3) , I believe, as is the building/warehouse used by Vision Forum Inc. As in…both are non-profit owned. ( I had trouble typing that last bit…non profit… yeah, right)

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  10. I’m glad to hear he’s been removed awhile though his daughter Kelly was a paragon of womanhood to Doug. Perhaps Jim’s large contributions to other political parties created some rift . I’m glad his name is no longer associated. We grieved when they left and went with Doug. Then lost touch. So then who gets the property? Do they sell it off to cover debt??

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  11. Zillow is waaaay wrong i promise to b2bmommy96. Not sure why it says that but i assure you it is more accurate at 8,000. We looked into purchasing it when it was on the market, but then it was removed and Dougie’s crew moved in–plus we couldnt afford it;)

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  12. Hi All, I’m a new poster. Thanks for your many intriguing and informative comments here, and for your heart to help folks get out of bad church and cultish situations. I’ve spend a good amount of time with Doug in the past – not recently. I’m told that he has really gone off the rails in recent years largely because of unchecked pride, lack of any accountability, and because of his belief system. These ingredients make for the toxic and secretive lifestyle you are seeing play out now.

    Regarding his beliefs (which I thank God for sparing me from): how do Patriarchy, 200-year vision statements, hyper-dominion theology, and more glorify God? Simple: they don’t – they are all about making men like Doug feel better and more prideful about themselves. Doug is simply of product of his theology, and his failings are not unlike those “patriarchs” in the Old Testament. Those who have learned from Doug, or have admired his teachings should question what they have learned. Shouldn’t families seek God’s guidance for their lives? Doesn’t the Bible teach about the priesthood of the individual believer – even women and girls? Does God really care if His people wear shorts?

    WomanforFreedom, thank you for speaking up about Doug. I can also attest that their home, that they were gifted, is not only large, but it is in a great section of town, very nice inside (including an indoor pool). An incredibly generous family GAVE them that house. I hope that this giving family’s name is protected, because I believe that they are not really involved with Vision Forum and Doug Phillips. They are just good people. I also believe that this family is probably upset with Doug for basically betraying them and so many others. By the way, if you were GIVEN a house like this (or any significant gift) wouldn’t you be humbled and incredibly appreciative? Wouldn’t that lead you to your knees in thanksgiving to God?

    Anyway, some of my initial feelings…

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  13. lol well my promise was meant to be serious–but hey you guys can vet me all you want–im just adding my two cents for what very little thats worth–i mean, not that many people get the birds eye view like we do lol. My main motivation was to assure all you who had heard of this guy –we have seen it physically and actually played out in his life–we were just heathen neighbors and not homeschoolers so he had no need to shine one on so to speak. I trusted this site to portray my words accurately and this site only. Im not afraid of this creep but I have been afraid of people like him. He knows clearly where I stand and Im still not afraid. My favorite christmas present will be the parade of conversion vans exiting and taking their fallen hero with them–and they will be receiving a care package from me…well from my dogs perhaps…muuahahaha

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  14. Thank you sweet t–welcome and i agree with you –i was hoping the leinenger name was not associated with anything bad–weve always had nothing but respect for him and his family–though there was alot of confusion when they left for Doug–but hey we all make mistakes and im glad they have parted ways. Too bad so many financially less blessed didnt catch on as well. But God’s timing is perfect. We have to believe that

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  15. bless my little heart 😉

    I can hear that phrase now with thick Texan accent and all and it is cracking me up. I heard it a good bit when we lived in GA. I wish I could pull that off up here. People would look at me like, “Say WHAT?!” haha

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  16. Doesn’t the Bible teach about the priesthood of the individual believer – even women and girls? Does God really care if His people wear shorts?

    Welcome sweet t: Your comment was right on! This comment reminded me of a blog post I did a couple months after starting my first blog (while in the middle of the defamation lawsuit by my former pastor, Chuck O’Neal): Do Not Show Your Thighs

    Now, I do not remember Chuck O’Neal being a fan of Doug Phillips, however, he bought into a lot of the ideology of the Homeschool Movement: courtship, modesty/purity, no youth groups, Patriarchy, etc. The parallels between O’Neal and Phillips are astounding – – the charm and charima as outward appearances, the difference in behavior at church and at home, the shunning, legalism, etc.

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  17. Jenny, google map it and then click satellite it. Zoom . Compare to the other nice big homes in the area. Zillow has 2 listing at that address except one is hollywood park and one is San Antonio as town. Different bed/bath sq ft. As if there are two properties in one. Hmmm Prop Taxes are high.

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  18. JA: “People would look at me like, “Say WHAT?!” haha”

    Like you looked at me when I said “yes ma’am” to you. lol
    That’s part of Texan culture, too.

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  19. Yeah well you have to pay a hefty price if you want to live in a neighborhood in a desert town and have lots of trees, big yards, and cults.

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  20. This convo has been so helpful to me. Has anyone checked out T.W. Eston’s latest post on Jemsgems? It’s always been so awkward for me to admit that I was in a cult. Somehow, his article helps take some of the stigma out of it. There are a lot of really intelligent people in my former cult just like there were at BCA.
    Whew! This is an emotional roller coaster.

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  21. I just finished my care package to Doug Phillips C/O Jon Summers” How do you upload a picture on here? I will have to describe it.

    The package only contains one 3×5 card. On the front it says,
    “Please give this card to Doug Phillips” (In tiny words it says “Over” with an arrow on the bottom right corner of the card).

    On the back it says in really, really, teeny, tiny, super small words so small (6 points Times New Roman) so small that you have to put it right up to your face to read “I pooped on this card”

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  22. “What is it with Texas and cults? Waco, FLDS, Doug???”
    I don’t know. Hopefully they’ll all head for the American Redoubt soon. Haha!

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  23. JA–its been an interesting little side benefit–forget the trees—we get our very own little bitty tiny cult leader!! woohoooo! Eston writes really good blogs BTDT.

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  24. AB–that house is awesome too–c’mon down JA youre missin all the fun! and Jenny—you just made me spit out my red crystal light all over my desk here at work hahahahhaaaa

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  25. We have lots of land here in Texas just ripe for cult communes. Plus we’re all a little full of ourselves anyway, making it hard to discern the native Texan from the Narcissistic Cult leader —sigh bless our hearts–thats for JA

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  26. There are two different entities on the Bexar Appraisal District tax roll. One is 3505 sf, the other is 2131 sf. Plus there is another enclosure at 1712 sf, plus pool, various open and covered decks, etc. The actual area of the enclosed home is hard to determine and the Bexar Appraisal District numbers have an iffy basis that is generally the building permit, or a report by the builder or owner, and sometimes a real estate listing. Not the most trustworthy sources of information. I came up with at least 7300 enclosed sf, but one of the covered decks would add enough, if enclosed, to bring it to 8,000. That could have happened after the BAD got their information.

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  27. WomanforFreedom, I looked at the photos. LOVE !!! the kitchen and master bath but I want an indoor pool. It is a beautiful home. 🙂

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  28. “Plus we’re all a little full of ourselves anyway, making it hard to discern the native Texan from the Narcissistic Cult leader”
    Bwahahahaha!! (And I love crystal light, too.)

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  29. No Place Like Home–when was that listing for 470k?? I wanna say last time it was on the market it was $779,000. If im remembering correctly

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  30. See An Attorney just proved im not lyyinnnnng—who says attorneys are bad–i happen to love ’em 😉

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  31. they do not pay taxes–they get the tax break for being a religious institution and /or a 501c3 here in good ol Texas–yeah …we’re allll bitter come tax time

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  32. “Waco” wasn’t in Waco. The nearest fancy hotel for the news media was in Waco. If the same was done for NY/NJ, every murder in NYC could be said to be in NJ!!!!. They were 12 miles outside the city as the crow flies and the roads don’t go straight there.

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  33. Call me crazy but a man gets to live in a house tax free because the house is owned by a non-profit?? Isn’t anyone concerned about the fact that the home is being used as a home from one wealthy family and not for any charitable purposes? I am all for non-profits being tax-free when they are doing legitimate good for the community but this just benefits once family, is that even legal? Someone shed some light here!

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  34. The portion of the property on account gets a separate appraisal based on quality of construction, sf, etc. So you have to add the two parts together: $470k +211K =$682K (some rounding on the two addends).

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  35. well hendersonfam4–it benefited alot of congregants, interns, nannies, maids–it was truly its own community and they did hold worship services there and uhhhh they promoted their costumes and uhhhhh ummm yeah….

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  36. If it was treated as a parsonage, that is the church owned it and living in it was part of his compensation, then deductible from income tax as being his housing allowance as a minister, then it would be considered tax exempt. (I do not like that either, but that is the current law). BTW the property that VFI was occupying, owned by VFM, likely was also tax exempt and probably should not have been as unrelated income property. Having the non-profit own the real estate is really a scam.

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  37. An Attorney–thats a pretty commiserate appraisal for the neighborhood give or take. Youre really good at math! Duly impressed!

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  38. I suspect that the Appraisal District looked at the fact that some of the property was really a residence and some really the place that worship was held and treated as two properties, just in case it was later decided that the residential part should not be tax exempt.

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  39. BTW, I lived in the San Antonio area in the past and have been in that part of town on many occasions. Hollywood Park is all very nice.

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  40. BTW San Antonio is among the largest cities in the U.S. Not so much the metro area, but the city itself is in the top 5 or so. And lots of suburbs with secluded areas in which to have your own place and be cultic. And along the north side on Loop 1604, there are a lot of mega churches, all very conservative, about one per mile. Good environment for finding possible followers for a cult. And, as an attorney, I have worked with churches that have sexually abusing elders/pastors, some in that strip along 1604.

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  41. Well that all depends on how much wine I’d had that night 😚. Oh and little green men in tights ….no wait that was Doug in the front yard doing his reinactment of Robyn hood …. Not really… But I like the visual

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  42. Regarding the house issue. I am not an attorney, but I am an accountant. Ministers around here usually get paid a housing allowance instead of a parsonage. That is a pretty big scam that Obama is trying to get rid of. Let me give an example (not for the attorney, for the other people). Minister A gets a $50,000 a year salary but instead of claiming that, he gets $30,000 and the $20,000 is tax free for housing. So he can pay his mortgage or rent, his utility bills, his HOA dues, all tax free. Its a cute little ancillary benefit of working for the church. But that is in absence of a parsonage. If it is a parsonage which it seems like the David Koresh errrr Doug Phillips compound seems to be, he should not have taken any housing allowance, which makes me seriously question his $44,000 salary someone said he took. I smell tax fraud prison. Doug Phillips just sat there staring at that rock, glistening in the sun. (I just typed that in my best Morgan Freeman Shawshank Redemption voice)

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  43. Hello,
    At one time I almost bought into the VF ideal, but God quickly steered me away. Just discovered this blog today. I appreciate many of the comments and I hope they help to steer others away from this mindset.

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  44. Welcome to all of the new readers here 🙂

    Please feel free to jump on in and interact. How has Vision Forum, Doug Phillips affected you and your family?

    My blog stats tell me there are a LOT of you out there who are searching – most likely trying to find answers, information, etc. I remember when I went through my bad church experience, I searched like a crazy woman wanting to see if what I experienced was common. I felt so alone and confused.

    Trust me – – there are MANY of you out there. Just because you didn’t go to Doug Phillips’ church doesn’t mean you were exempt from the negative aspects of the extra-biblical practices.

    I hope you will find this place to be one of support to you. There are some great people here who have gone through some yucky church situations and are a great support to me and others.

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  45. It never touched my family directly, as I was single then. I was a young student at Reformed Theological Seminary, and the “dominion theology” that I briefly latched onto was not healthy. God’s grace soon delivered me from it.

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  46. I was not in any way affiliated with VF, DP or any of the patriarch movement, but i touched the edges of it, and that was bad enough.

    I have a question that I would like as correct an answer to as is possible. Background first: I homeschooled for many years, and saw the VF booth at a few conferences, but not many. The local Christian conference experienced a painful “split” a number of years ago, and apparently, these guys “won.” I never went back. The coming conference, 2014, features Scott Brown and Ken Ham as keynotes. (:::running away fast:::) But truth be told, I am not sure that I know a single homeschooler who attends this conference, or adheres to the VF stuff.

    My question is multipart:

    How many families/people (specify) would you say are involved in the VF “movements”? (You can include homeschooling, the churches, whatever–I don’t know enough to ask the question correctly.)

    If you are involved in homeschooling, what percentage of fellow homeschoolers you know personally are involved with DP/VF? and with Patriarchy in general.

    If you could list the Top 5 Bigshots in the Patriarchy movement, who would they be, and on a scale of 1-5 on the Creepometer, 5 being Most Creepy, who would you list. If you don’t want to do the rankings, that’s OK. It would also help if you listed them in order of number of people reached.

    I know these are not scientific questions. I’m trying to understand the scope of the impact here, the intensity of it within the homeschool community and to identy the names of leaders in the movement and their relative toxicity.

    God be with you all.

    Kind regards,
    Patty Joanna

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  47. Too true mr attorney we’ve had a few doozies here in San Antonio . That’s why we thought we were safe here in Hollywood Park … Hmmmm;)

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  48. Welcome Patty Joanna,

    I don’t know how one can find an answer to your questions, but I hope others pipe in with their thoughts. In my communications with people, it really doesn’t matter if you followed Doug Phillips or not – – if you have been involved with Christian homeschooling in general, have familiarity with Courtship, Patriarchy, Full-Quiver, modesty and purity teachings, you will run into these teachings. That is what is confusing about this – – we want to put it all in the Doug Phillips box because it fts nice and tidy there. It is not. What has happened is that the ideology has spread from e-mail groups to online forums, Facebook groups, conventions, parenting classes, books, etc. It spreads from one person to another, from family to family, from church to church, etc.

    I was searching some key names today and ran across this link listing “The Sufficiency of Scripture Conference Complete Set.” When I read the list of people who had spoken, it sent quivers down my spine. I am not familiar with all of the people, but quite a few:

    http://www.fidelitybooks.com/Descriptions/des3017.htm

    The bottom line, Patty, is that God’s Word is sufficient. We who are Christians were given the Holy Spirit and are of the priesthood of Believers. We do not need these people to speak their brand of “Christianity” with their ideologies into our lives.

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  49. Womanoffreedom: when you were talking about “ellaborating more on the details of the woman above” were you referring to Jen G or someone else?

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  50. ‘On the Outside Looking In
    DECEMBER 6, 2013 @ 12:15 PM
    I couldn’t figure out how to reply to the comment on December 5, 2013 @ 2:54 AM, so I’m posting this down here. Go to the video linked on that comment and view beginning at the 5:00 minute mark. It sure looks like he was checking out his daughter.’
    LOL — I was the only one commenting at 3am! Yes– the creepiness of the PDA with his daughters– I re-watched a “family” video where, for the first 5 minutes, he has his hand around another daughter’s shoulder as he talks to the camera. She smiles in adoration. Just something not quite right. Can’t link that video, since the second half is focused on a certain special friend of the family. Wonder who was filming– Beall?

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  51. Spill the beans Womanforfreedom. This guy needs to fall so hard he will never come back into the “ministry”. Wow, what a life of sacrifice they have been leading!

    To some up some of the tidbits I’ve read in the past few weeks-

    Doug alienated his wife from her family-cutting her off from her parents, etc

    Doug’s brother was also involved with stealing a documentary matching his brother’s awesome example

    The VF Ministries side raised almost 2M one year in donations. They then proceeded to “acquire” the Jonathan Park radio series from the VF Company side for 600K or so. So we have the possible scenario of donations lining the pockets of Doug et all. Jen had a post of his tax returns that year. Look it up.

    Comments about Doug using his ministry credit card like a cash machine for his family

    Traveling the globe, living like royalty, sparing no expense.

    Doug’s dad had a king complex as well–people had to clear the way for him & show him honor. It’s obvious he grew up seeing a politician demanding glory and honor.

    Doug had his little brainwashed interns driving him around like he was CEO of a major corporation.

    They had dozens of little brainwashed girls fawning all over their family to help them run their house. Meanwhile the poor saps they brainwashed in the US are out there with 8-10 kids going broke and receiving NO help.

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  52. (BTW, the special family friend I mentioned was NOT the alleged cougar)
    ‘Yeah well you have to pay a hefty price if you want to live in a neighborhood in a desert town and have lots of trees, big yards, and cults.’
    ‘“What is it with Texas and cults? Waco, FLDS, Doug???”
    I don’t know. Hopefully they’ll all head for the American Redoubt soon. Haha!’
    I only visited San Antonio one time, but I do already live in the American Redoubt. In a desert town with lots of trees, big yards, and cults. (should we coin the term cult-de-sac?) Some gun-loving folks are planning to build a fortified city in my state. Then there’s our Nazis (no discussion complete without a mention of them)! And, of course, we have our very own Doug. Used to know his Dad. A nightmare-inducing Arminian, I believe.

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  53. Hahahaha! I’m a huge fan of ‘ cult-de-sac’ I’m so many many ways hahaha I’m crying. My street will be using this from here on out I assure you. Kicking myself for not coming up with it. Btw odd happenings during run(dog business) time this evening. Believe it or not it is 34 degrees here and we couldn’t breathe lol but I will check on the latest ‘happenings ‘ in the morning

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  54. Hey I think you pretty much nailed it . All I can add is that I’ve personally seen all that stuff in actual person .with the exception of the extended family relations , the film stuff, and what laws financially were being broken. But I have witnessed the disgusting kingdom he turned his home into . I’ve born the wrath of the mr and mrs and others who followed . I have friends who live under the poverty line to pop out as many kids as possible in order to work for this creep. I’ve seen a cougar lurking around the cult de sac. Ive seen some of his kids begin the eventual rebellion that lifestyle forces . I’ve seen on a daily basis all the ‘ladies in waiting’ they utilized for help but didn’t pay them . It was’an honor to serve Mr. Phillips ‘. I’ve SEEN it. I’ve been called names and treated abominably by a “man of God” and yet I never attended his church because my invitation was denied by a wife who disliked the fact that I work and don’t homeschool . This mam is disgusting . There are people aligned with him that are disgusting and there is a huge swath of injured followers who now question any kind of faith in God. There is no vengeance that can compare to the answering Doug will have to Do with God but I hope the proper ppl are seeking legal recourse. This is worse than anyone knows . And that is what I know . And it’s true and deeply sad

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  55. There are people aligned with him that are disgusting and there is a huge swath of injured followers who now question any kind of faith in God.

    This is probably what gets to me the most. The utter hypocrisy of saying you are being a godly family, godly father, blah, blah, to say God this and God that and really, where was God in THAT? That is so confusing for people who were part of the cult.

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  56. I agree completely JA – that’s what happened when Christ and the Gospeland the Scandelous Freedom of Grace is not ever preached or taught. It’s a travesty and leads to nightmares like this into opinion

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  57. Dave A A,
    My sincerest condolences. My former cult is already relocating to your state. In fact, I’ve heard the “church” is already building the founding elder’s home up there. (Not too terribly far from where your very own Doug is.)
    “Cult-de-sac.” Love it!

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  58. Doug Phillips using interns has me very upset as it amounts to slave labor. I am thoroughly disgusted by his feeding off of other people who naively thought they were performing a Christian duty and I am heart broken for those he used.

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  59. It IS shameful and disgusting and those poor girls were so happy to do it and Beall was happy to be queen bee

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  60. I’m just really sick over how long this was going on and the shame he has brought on his family. I truly had no idea how bad it was until I began researching for an article I planned to write defending “Patriarchy.” That’s when I discovered his abuses had been documented online since 2006 and none were holding him accountable!

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  61. Angela W – would you still defend patriarchy knowing now what you know about how it worked out for Doug’s wife and kids?

    WomanforFreedom – your posts (and the posts of various others here and elsewhere) suggest that there is some sort of legal process/investigation taking place at the moment. Are you able to tell us what type of process this is or if there are several? I’m obviously aware that certain details can’t be divulged if this is the case but as far as I’m aware there isn’t usually any law against stating that something specific is being investigated (unless things are very different in the US to where I am).

    I’m also surprised and intrigued about how this man and his friends and family treated you. I would have thought that maintaining an image as being good Christians would have been of utmost importance to these people. Did they actually insult you with words or was it more just cold shouldering and that kind of thing?

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  62. Angela,
    You may have been saved from a lot of effort to defend the indefensible! Patriarchy does not glorify God nor does it advance his kingdom. It is part and parcel of a movement by individuals to assume a position of power, interjecting themselves between believers and God, and displacing the Holy Spirit with human rules rather than God’s love and grace.

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  63. @A B Lever December 6, 2013 @ 3:27 PM

    To each his own, I suppose. Calvinism had little to do with it. I was Reformed years before I met Vision Forum. I wanted a holistic expression of my life and this seemed to fit. And even by Reformed standards, DP is NOT Reformed. He took some elements of Baptist theology and some elements of Reformed and welded them together. Even his mentor RJ Rushdoony wasn’t really Reformed, since Rushdoony self-excommunicated his own self from the Presbtyerian world.

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  64. BeenThereDoneThat: Oh no– I’ll need to move the wife and kids to San Antonio now! (Off- topic, I have to laugh at WomanforFreedom describing San Antonio as “Desert”. When I traveled there, I got off the plane and cried, “OH, The Humidity!”) Only 50 miles from the other Doug’s Kirk, we actually have a nice little town called Culdesac already. Seriouisly, I believe Julie Anne lives closer-by the Kirk than I do, now. Regarding slave labor– our Doug is far-removed from the Texas Doug on some issues, but on that one? Not so much.

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  65. I’m not sure where you are, Dave AA, but I just checked Google Maps and I’m under 3 hrs from the other Doug. Maybe I should “go on assignment” to see the conquer and colonize man himself.

    ::::just got a queazy feeling typing that::::

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  66. Yep- you’re closer than I. But I used to be around there frequently. I visited the Kirk once. It seemed like a good, normal church, and I recommended my daughters attend it, as I had attended his Dad’s in a prior century. Thankfully I am not a Patriarch and they did not take my advice.

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  67. JA,
    I just checked, and you’re 3 hours and 3 minutes from where my former cult is relocating. Wow! I had no idea! I feel like I should do some penance for exporting this your way. 🙂

    Dave A A,
    Your daughters are a lot smarter than I was. I’m soooo glad you’re not a Patriarch.

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  68. Sorry. I read what you wrote as Wilson County. Haha! Time for glasses.
    Yes, I believe Deary is about 24 miles east of Moscow. Very close to Wilson country.

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  69. “Regarding the house issue. I am not an attorney, but I am an accountant. Ministers around here usually get paid a housing allowance instead of a parsonage. That is a pretty big scam that Obama is trying to get rid of. Let me give an example (not for the attorney, for the other people). Minister A gets a $50,000 a year salary but instead of claiming that, he gets $30,000 and the $20,000 is tax free for housing. So he can pay his mortgage or rent, his utility bills, his HOA dues, all tax free. ”

    I though everything with regards to churches and their staff was tax free anyway?

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  70. A Woman For Freedom – Your comments are really confirming to me as the day to day experience of life near the philips’ and is another piece of the puzzle as we are trying to understand this leader of so many. Julie Anne, would you ever consider her doing a guest post or posting her comments in another post since some may not see all she has shared because it is in comment feed? Just a thought.

    Knowledge is power and your sharing has empowered me to continue to speak out against the heresy and spiritual pride. And your attitude has encouraged me to have mercy for those who have followed the piper. Thanks for sharing.

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  71. Liza–I apologize for the delay in responding, i have been out of town–I’m glad to be of any help I can be–I’m not sure if JA would be willing to have someone do a guest post who types as atrociously as i do ;). But I’m willing to be as transparent as I can be because I too believe this stuff has gone on in silence and fear locally for way too long. As to an earlier posters question–yes I have been verbally called Jezebel and other weird names–none of which were exactly cussing , but as close to it as you could get ;). I would have preferred a few b-bombs–that way i could’ve broken open a can of good ol’ fashioned a@# whoopin. But alas, it was just weird names and thoughts on who I was in God’s eyes— and then came the shunning when i would proceed to laugh as loud as i could. Beall shunned me after a time. But there was never a time where i or any neighbor that i knew of, saw any kindness with the adults that lived there or parked all over the place. The kids were sweet in a very sad way. My heart bleeds for them and for those who are wounded. I tend to make jokes to kinda get myself out of the funk, but i still find it finally time to share what ive seen from a close perspective. I wish everyone couldve witnessed who they really were. And It isn’t all just Doug though he was the puppet master. Anyway I appreciate JA for letting me post so much on this topic–the latest and greatest if anyone is interested, is that this morning there were 4 white conversion vans, 2 white subrbans and a mini van or two over there—thats unusual since his fall from grace–so something is definitely afoot.

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