CBMW and Owen Strachan Tweets that the Church is Better at Handling Domestic Violence Than our Secular Culture

Owen Strachan and the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood (CBMW) thinks the church handles domestic violence against women better than secular culture.

owen strachan, council for biblical manhood and womanhood, cbmw, domestic violence, abuse, women

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89 comments on “CBMW and Owen Strachan Tweets that the Church is Better at Handling Domestic Violence Than our Secular Culture

  1. I think there is some truth to secular culture being somewhat ambivalent about domestic violence, rape, and other crimes committed mostly by men against women. I well remember the OJ Simpson situation when people were holding signs “Free the Juice”, etc. In addition, too many secular college campuses are still giving rapists a free pass–especially if they happen to be jocks. And yes, our culture does excessively admire sports and athletes (which may be responsible in part, why athletes seem to get away with so much); almost if not outright falling into the idolatry of both.

    That said, saying complimentarian churches are the most pro-woman outfit there is is like saying white supremacy groups are the most in favor of minority rights.

    What planet do these people live on?

    Liked by 8 people

  2. I get the disconnect with jocks, etc, but most major cities have domestic violence helps: hotlines, shelters, legal advocacy (sometimes free). Will churches help shelter women and their families? We hear of many churches telling women they need to do a better job of submitting and send them back to the abusing spouse.

    Liked by 6 people

  3. Well, uh, when you redefine domestic abuse of women so that no such thing exists, then yeah, I guess you handle it better than anybody else…

    Liked by 4 people

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  5. you gotta be kidding! Owen Strachan is an ostrich with his head buried miles deep in the sand. He’s so pumped with his comp rhetorick that he’s got no room between his ears for the anguished cries of the victims of domestic abuse in the church.

    What is he doing to help victims of Domestic Abuse and excommunicate their abusers? I’ve not heard of one thing he’s done except spout hot air like this.

    It seems that now Bethlehem Batpist is showing signs of a real change of culture re DV/DA, it’s going to become the thing that every other celeb Christian wants to join the bandwagon on. More impression management.

    What I’d like to know is: Does Owen Strachan subscribe to something like our Non Negotiables for Domestic Abuse Ministry? And if so, what is he gonna do to change the culture in comp churches so that the horrendous injustice doesn’t continue?

    http://cryingoutforjustice.com/2015/01/05/non-negotiables-for-effective-and-biblical-abuse-ministry-2/

    If we still had the stocks like they did in the Middle Ages, Owen should be put in the stocks for a week and pummelled with rotten vegetables.

    He has NO IDEA how foolish he sounds to those of us who support victims of domestic abuse in Christendom on a daily basis.

    Liked by 6 people

  6. Allllrightythen…

    Btw, I had no idea Owen resembled a nerd. Maybe him and K Swan can start a club. I wonder how tall the guy is.

    “It seems that now Bethlehem Batpist…”

    LOL… I know that was probably a typo, but it really did make me laugh out loud.

    This evening I was listening to a Mortification of Spin podcast on how churches ought to respond to abuse victims. Carl Trueman and company were interviewing the author of the book Rid Of My Disgrace and her husband. There were some good things in there, although I would call it just a start.

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  7. “Submit to your husband” is just too close to “let your husband do to you what he will.” Therein lies the problem, in my opinion. The teaching in my (non-secular) world sounds something like this: “If a man who is supposed to love and honor you EVER touches you in an unloving or dishonoring way, you are either being abused or at great risk of it.”

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  8. And when was the last time he read John Piper’s take on abused women? Isn’t Piper one of his complementarian allies/compatriots/buds? Blinders on, I tell you.

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  9. In an abused marriage I was counseled that I could leave for my own safety when he was hurting me (the most dangerous possible time), but was required to return if he promised to make efforts to keep the marriage going. I was quoted 1 Peter 3 as one of these bases for this (another, of course, was Jesus’s own words of, “except for matters of adultery…” The first church I attended also taught that modern men were in a quandary because the state no longer allowed them to take more than one wife, and that the male drive being what it was, sleeping with never married women was an expected problem. There was a lot of frustration that men couldn’t sleep with a virgin and keep her if he already had a first wife. In cases of adultery, only unrepentant adultery counted. If he said he was sorry and not going to do it again, you had to keep him. My abuser added (of course) that it had two be proven adultery. Suspected adultery and camera chats asking girls he regularly spent time with to do unspeakable things wasn’t proof of the act…

    I was astonished when, after eleven years of this, one of his girls confessed to with explicit detail. When confronted, he tried to play the I want Christian counseling card, but insisted on keeping his girlfriends in case it didn’t work. This, of course, was deemed unrepentant, though I was reminded that divorce makes Jesus cry…

    …and removed from youth leadership later at the same church for “adultery by proxy” because a tenant renting my garage moved his girlfriend in. As a landlord, I couldn’t tell him no.

    Liked by 2 people

  10. Yes and no…. if the church is active in study of scripture with obedience to the scripture…. sure it is definitely better at eliminating domestic violence….. (not polygamous or catering to abusers of mankind (homosexuality))……

    No, would be when it refuses to aknowledge the humanness of the downsyndrome child, the value of the widow over 60, and the truths of how to prevent fornication in the first place….. if a church is just worldly cultural…. with no love for the poor…. then it doesn’t get the programming correct…..

    The more love for God’s word the people in a church have as well as general wisdom and knowledge of how to deal with different situations….. the better and more likely a church can and does eliminate all forms of domestic violence.

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  11. @ic2manywords

    “The first church I attended also taught that modern men were in a quandary because the state no longer allowed them to take more than one wife, and that the male drive being what it was, sleeping with never married women was an expected problem. There was a lot of frustration that men couldn’t sleep with a virgin and keep her if he already had a first wife.”

    I am speechless.

    Liked by 2 people

  12. @JA

    “I get the disconnect with jocks, etc, but most major cities have domestic violence helps: hotlines, shelters, legal advocacy (sometimes free).”

    I just saw a local news article about the Texas Education Agency (you know, that evil secular public education agency) unveiling a new program aimed at . . . well, jocks. “It’s called the ProtectHer Project” and “will focus on defining dating abuse, sexual assault and addressing the concept of consent, which officials say is largely misunderstood.”

    http://www.kxxv.com/story/28956273/tea-launches-statewide-campaign-to-prevent-teen-dating-violence

    At least they’re trying.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Exactly, BTDT. The timing of the tweets is amazing considering Bethlehem Baptist’s sermon last Sunday – as if he’s implying it has been the norm in churches to have plans in place to protect women. This is so ridiculous. Who is he trying to kid?

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  14. I just saw a thread on that (complementarian) Marriage Bed forum in which a wife said her husband just raped her. The other women’s counsel was basically, “honey, he only did that cause he LOVES you.” not enough brain bleach to get that garbage out of my head.

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  15. Last year at a Christian Mingle event I had the privilege of meeting a woman that murdered her husband. He would sit in his office at work watching BDSM porn and then come home with an abnormal, rage-like “sexual” drive. The abuse this woman suffered in silence for years drove her over the edge of sanity and she snapped.

    During her ordeal at a woman’s retreat, a young wife openly complained that her new husband was sodomizing her regularly, and even beating her with a belt for “talking back” . Several older women at this sick & twisted church basicly told her that God commands her to “obey and submit and to do so with a cheerful attitude as a form of worship ” . In hearing the advice from these women running this retreat the woman I met continued on in her marriage trying to be the ever faithful wife and mother. The abuse become worse and more brutal up until the day that she ended it in an act of desperation. That night I had the opportunity to get to know her while everyone else was dancing, as we both grew up in denominations that forbid it and never learned. It was so obvious that she is a gentle and kind soul that was utterly destroyed by her husband’s addiction to sexual perversion and need to control her.

    I was very glad that I always get my own room at these types of events and never bunk up with other attenders. That night everything I had heard brought a lot of emotion out of me rather unexpectedly and guys like to process that in private. I already knew from my personal experience that the church as a whole totally blows it in the area of dealing with abusers and their victims. That night I simply realized that their is NO LIMIT to the dept of abuse they sanction for the sake of their movement / church or patriarchial marching band of ONWard Christian perverts.

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  16. That’s not to imply that I think every guy that attends church or is in a movement is a pervert. We aren’t , but these “patriarchs” almost always are. I’m not sure what Owen is covering up with all his religiousity but to me it’s a big clue when I look at who is on the board. They even have a dope from Sovergn Grace Ministeries on there. That says it all.

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  17. Scott, stories like yours are why we can call Strachan out on his excrement. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together would have told those women what they were enduring is abuse and to seek help. What kind of god requires women to endure rape and sodomy as a form of “worship?”

    I can’t call this kind of “worship” Christianity anymore. I just can’t.

    Liked by 4 people

  18. He has a point about sports celebrities. They do tend to get by with it just like abusers at churches get by with it. How many who decry abuse will buy a ticket to watch the great athlete perform.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. It’s interesting you say that Lydia, last night I was at dinner with a buddy of mine and he said the exact same thing. The restaurant was empty and I commented about it wondering why. I hadn’t heard of the fight as I have been on the road and haven’t been infront of a TV in weeks. He then commented that everyone was home paying $100 pay per view to watch a fight where a guy that has a history of beating women is getting paid up to 200 million ( depending on pay per view sales volume). He mentioned that some church men’s groups are organizing parties around that stupid fight. I was like NO WAY ? He then told me that his roommate’s accountability group was meeting to watch the fight and have a pizza party. He said the irony of that seemed totally lost on him.

    Some times I really think there is NO HOPE for the average church.

    Liked by 3 people

  20. Scott, that story make me want to puke. But it all makes so much twisted sense. These people interpret Biblical exhortation to “submit” as a blank check for the husband. Sure, he *shouldn’t* do some things, but he has the right to if he really wants to. And for whatever reason, we’re more concerned how the underlings behave rather than those in “authority”.

    “But Jesus called them to him and said, ‘You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be your slave, even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.'” Matt 20:25-28

    “Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” Matt 11:28

    “They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger.” Matt 23:4

    I cannot believe the burdens these people place on women. They have f*** all to do with the Gospel.

    “what does the Lord require of you, but to do justice,
    //and to love mercy//
    and to walk humbly with your God?” Micah 6:8

    Liked by 1 person

  21. Barbara, If my car blows up in the morning when I turn the key we will know why, The patriarch mafia.

    Unfortunately I believe those men are so stone cold and uncaring that they are totally apathetic about other people’s suffering and don’t even realize it. Abused Man or woman, they aren’t concerned with other people. They have used the church as a wealth creation device. Kind of like the guys that misused the Ark of the covenant in 1st Samuel. I looked at the board of directors of that organization and there is NOT one man on there that I have an ounce of respect for. If they think that they represent the majority of men in church they are on Patriarchal crack and need to put the pipe down.

    Liked by 4 people

  22. To say “the complimentarian churches are the most pro-woman outfit there is” is eerily reminiscent to “Pastor” Doug Wilson’s defense of slavery, as described by Tim in his May 1 post at http://tinyurl.com/p84ma36. Tim quotes Wilson as saying “Slavery produced in the South a genuine affection between the races that we believe we can say has never existed in any nation before the War or since.”

    One can only wonder if Wilson’s wife and daughters (assuming he has a wife and daughters) are feeling the genuine affection emanating from the incontestable male authority in their lives.

    Liked by 4 people

  23. The complementarian churches decry hypothetical abuse, but when it comes to particular suffering women, they raise an eyebrow and insist that she can never have enough proof to merit care.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. @ Scott & Barbara:

    Scott, I tweeted your comment to @CMBWorg. Told them they need to read your testimony.

    They’ll fixate on the fact that the woman murdered her husband and ignore the rest.

    Liked by 1 person

  25. Hester, don’t you know patriarchs are the only people that are allowed to murder and get away with it.

    Has anyone else noticed these schmucks that have been mentioned by name tend to be, well for lack of a better term, unattractive and, well, small, awkward, and likely compensating for personal shortcomings.

    The Bible says perfect love casts out fear and any man that does what has been written in the above posts should be out on their ass.

    Liked by 1 person

  26. “The complementarian church is the most pro-woman outfit there is.”

    Because comp women never complain.
    “WOMAN, SUBMIT! AND KEEP SILENT! AS COMMANDED IN SCRIPTURE!”

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  27. @OpineMine:

    Hester, don’t you know patriarchs are the only people that are allowed to murder and get away with it.

    Under Pre-Christian (i.e. Pagan) Roman Household Codes, Paterfamilias has power of Life & Death over his entire gens — extended family AND animate property.

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  28. Hester said,

    They’ll fixate on the fact that the woman murdered her husband and ignore the rest. Oh yes, and they will probably toss in other standard complementarian fare, such as, saying if only she had graciously submitted to her spouse some more!

    They may hint that she was influenced by left wing, secular feminism, because don’t you know, complementarian or conservative theology would never, ever lead to spouse abuse to start with, or certainly not lead a True Christian to murder her spouse, not even in self defense.

    She might be used as an example as to why they think women should cling to comp even more so.

    Like

  29. Hey Scott, check out Strachan’s latest tweets. He gets into the morality of watching the Mayweather/Pacquaio fight.

    Like

  30. Darn, I issed up my HTML in my post above.
    I forgot to close the tag on the last “blockquote”, I hope everyone can figure out where Hester’s comments end and mine begins.
    ——————————-
    As to Owen’s tweets.

    Owen said,
    “The complementarian church is the most pro-woman church outfit there is.”

    Nope. As has been explained on other sites, complementarians pull a bait and switch on women.

    They will tell women initially how great women are, women are made in the image of God, and are dearly valued, but then pull the switch: as great as you are, and as equal as you are in God, you cannot and will not and should not be allowed to use your talents and giftings.

    As a guy on another blog wrote, (“Bible believing” pastors and the enabling of domestic violence” by John Shore),

    You cannot teach a girl that she is, by virtue of the simple fact that she was born female, naturally and by the will of God subordinate to men, and at the same teach her to high self-esteem. One half of the message ‘You were born inferior—but you’re great!’ is destined to cancel out the other half. You can’t have broken legs and win a foot race.”

    That’s pretty much it.

    Complementarians give a conflicting message to women:
    “You women are equal, but not as equal as men.” Or, “Women are equal, but men are “more” equal than women.”

    I also wrote 2 or 3 posts on an older thread _here_ how complementarianism sets women up to be more vulnerable to being abused and makes them more likely to attracting abusers, controllers, and manipulators.

    Owen Tweeted,

    “Our culture has a double standard. It decries abuse but cheers stars like #FloydMayweather who commit it.
    The church has no such option.

    Similar things can be said about the church, too.

    Some churches will slide domestic abuse under the rug, chalking it up to male headship gone a tad too far, but well, golly, the man IS the “head” of the wife, so we can’t really do anything about it.

    Some churches will tell the wife to simply “pray” more about the abuse, or submit more, and neither more prayer or more submission is going to halt any abuse.

    Owen Tweeted,

    In the church, woman-abusers like #FloydMayweather are stringently disciplined.
    In the culture, they can take home $180 million a fight.

    Male abusers in churches are usually not “stringently disciplined,” either, if the many testimonies I have seen on other Christian sites and this one is any indication.

    Many churches prefer to sweep abuse under the rug. I’ve read many testimonies where the church even sides with the abuser and shuns the victim, especially if the victim seeks a divorce.
    It’s similar in cases of other types of abuse, too – child sexual abuse, spiritual abuse – the pastor or church members will rally around the abuser but punish or try to silence the victim.

    Like

  31. Lydia said,

    lydia00
    MAY 3, 2015 @ 11:37 AM
    He has a point about sports celebrities. They do tend to get by with it just like abusers at churches get by with it. How many who decry abuse will buy a ticket to watch the great athlete perform.

    I’m not disagree with you per se, but using your post to spring board on to another point.

    This is one thing I find annoying about conservative evangelical culture. They love to point to the sins of secular culture while ignoring or diminishing the same, or similar problems, that are going on within churches or among Christians.

    In the case of spousal abuse, I’d say that the very teachings Owen’s organization promotes about gender roles causes or enables that abuse to take place, or men who are prone to control women find it very appealing.

    Like

  32. Valerie said,

    The complementarian churches decry hypothetical abuse, but when it comes to particular suffering women, they raise an eyebrow and insist that she can never have enough proof to merit care.

    Yes, this, a million times over.

    Or, they will somehow find a way to blame the wife for the abuse and make it her responsibility to stop the husband from abusing.

    Liked by 1 person

  33. Call me jaded and cynical but I feel like he is trying to rescue Complementarianism from criticism more than victims from abusers.

    Liked by 1 person

  34. I completely agree, BIT. Complementarianism is a “gospel” issue to many of these men.

    When we see doctrine held so high and people are still left trampled, we need to look more closely.

    Why is it that we’re making such a fuss over Bethlehem Baptist? Because it’s a RARITY to have a church to have a focus on protecting abused women and have plans in place. This is new territory for them. That’s Piper’s old church – Piper, the original co-founder of CBMW. If his old church is just now making abused women part of their focus (and they are a trend-setting church), you can be sure, this is not commonplace. That is why I was upset at CBMW’s tweet. In order for CBMW to tweet that, they need to have a proven record of defending abuse. They do not.

    If you read the comments at Cry for Justice blog, there was a woman who was treated horribly at Piper’s church. Let’s hear from those who have experienced the treatment from church leaders and then test the words of the leaders. Show us the proof.

    Liked by 1 person

  35. Julie Anne, yeah. He’s acting like this is how it’s always been. Like the church has always been this anti-abuse safe haven for victims. Oh please. A cursory view of Cry For Justice shows how the church really treats abuse victims.

    Liked by 1 person

  36. @ BIT:

    Call me jaded and cynical but I feel like he is trying to rescue Complementarianism from criticism more than victims from abusers.

    Maybe the outcry has finally gotten loud enough that they can’t not talk about it anymore?

    Liked by 1 person

  37. JA said “If you read the comments at Cry for Justice blog, there was a woman who was treated horribly at Piper’s church.”

    The woman uses the name Jessica and so far has written four comments at ACFJ.
    Here they are, in order of publication. Please note that her experience at BBC was 11 years ago. And also please note that BBC have not yet (to my knowledge) had time to address historical cases: they are pretty busy dealing with the current cases that have disclosed.

    The first comment was on a post from 9 January this year:

    http://cryingoutforjustice.com/2015/01/09/scriptures-that-demonstrate-an-abuser-is-not-a-christian/#comment-53886

    The next three comments are on our 30 April post about Bethlehem Baptist:

    http://cryingoutforjustice.com/2015/04/30/john-pipers-old-church-is-admitting-to-fault-in-how-it-has-addressed-domestic-abuse-and-making-changes/#comment-63124

    http://cryingoutforjustice.com/2015/04/30/john-pipers-old-church-is-admitting-to-fault-in-how-it-has-addressed-domestic-abuse-and-making-changes/#comment-63208

    http://cryingoutforjustice.com/2015/04/30/john-pipers-old-church-is-admitting-to-fault-in-how-it-has-addressed-domestic-abuse-and-making-changes/#comment-63210

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  38. BIT and Hester said
    “Call me jaded and cynical but I feel like he [Owen Strachan] is trying to rescue Complementarianism from criticism more than victims from abusers.”

    “Maybe the outcry has finally gotten loud enough that they [CBMW] can’t not talk about it anymore?”

    BOTH of the above, I would guess.

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  39. JA said “Why is it that we’re making such a fuss over Bethlehem Baptist? Because it’s a RARITY to have a church to have a focus on protecting abused women and have plans in place. ”

    Exactly. Especially a complementarian church.

    You might find a reasonable set of policies for responding to domestic abuse in some liberal churches, and maybe some egal churches (though in my observation not the Pentecostal ones), but to find it in a conservative evangelical complementarian setting is extremely rare, in my observation.

    Mind you, in liberal or egal churches where you may find a policy for responding to Domestic Abuse, you have to bear in mind that just because the policy is there on paper doesn’t necessarily mean the practice matches the policy. . .
    But I’m not very au fait with what is happening in those kinds of churches because I don’t pay attention to that stream much. I find the overall theology, esp if it’s liberal, so disappointing that I don’t want to spend much time in that pond.

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  40. Valerie and Daisy said,
    “The complementarian churches decry hypothetical abuse, but when it comes to particular suffering women, they raise an eyebrow and insist that she can never have enough proof to merit care. Or, they will somehow find a way to blame the wife for the abuse and make it her responsibility to stop the husband from abusing.”

    Valerie and Daisy are spot on. This is the experience of many of our readers at ACFJ.

    C’mon, CBMW, pay attention to this thread. Denouncing domestic abuse is easy. But what are you doing about it?

    Like

  41. Maybe the outcry has finally gotten loud enough that they can’t not talk about it anymore?

    Political reasons are unacceptable. I am not interested in political reasons. I am interested in change of heart.

    I will point out what appears to be a distinction in BBC and CBMW in that BBC seems to be 1) changing and 2) doing it out of a change of heart and a realization that they have been failing in this area. Strachan on the other hand does the opposite in implying that the church has typically already been a safe haven for the abuse victim. “In the church woman-abusers…are * stringently disciplined.” Uh, yeah, no. They’re not.

    I realize there is significant overlap between Piper’s BBC and CBMW since Piper is one of the founders of CBMW. And this concerns me because with Strachan saying things like this in such close proximity to BBC’s recent apparently corrective change under Jason Meyer it looks like CBMW is saying the same thing as BBC, but I do not see that they are. Meyer’s communications sound an awful lot more like repentance and change of course while Strachan’s sounds more like CYA and “look over there.”

    Meyer: “Abusers should be * disciplined and have not been * and we are failing victims here and need to change and here’s how we’re changing.” (Not an exact quote.)

    Strachan: “In the church woman-abusers… are * stringently disciplined.”

    One of these things is not like the other….

    In short, Strachan is undermining what Meyer is saying, IMO.

    *All emphases mine.

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  42. @ BIT:

    And this concerns me because with Strachan saying things like this in such close proximity to BBC’s recent apparently corrective change under Jason Meyer it looks like CBMW is saying the same thing as BBC, but I do not see that they are.

    Obviously this is speculative and I can’t see into Strachan’s head, but I wonder if he’s trying to copycat / jump on the bandwagon without really understanding. (Not meant as a defense of Strachan, BTW; I really don’t like anything I’ve seen from him. He was the same guy who called stay-at-home dads “man fails” if I recall correctly. There was also some stuff about men doing laundry and Elmo playing with dolls, which I remember was dumb but I can’t recall the details now.)

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  43. I was looking up more information about a book about spiritual abuse Dee recommended, and I found this site that summarizes the content of some of the chapters.

    There is an interesting chapter on authoritative churches and a chapter about domestic abuse, and how churches twist and distort passages to tell women they have to stay in abusive marriages, even if they get killed (!!!)

    Chapter 8 The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse
    (link is to page at Recovering Grace site)

    That web page also has links to other helpful pages about how Christians distort some Bible passages to make women think they have to put up with abuse.

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  44. About my post of MAY 4, 2015 @ 6:47 PM.

    I was wondering. I think the New Testament makes some reference to children submitting to their parents?

    Do these blockheads who advise wives to submit to a husband, even if it means more verbal, emotional, or physical abuse, advise children to do the same thing?

    If a child gets the courage to approach a gender complementarian preacher in private and confide that his/her father is beating him/her up (or maybe it’s sexual abuse, or verbal abuse), does the gender comp preacher normally advise these kids to just go home and “submit more” to their father?

    These preacher do realize that telling a kid to “honor his dad more,” or “submit more,” is not going to do bupkiss to halt the abuse, yes?

    If they do, and if they can see how ridiculous is sounds to tell a kid to just go home and submit some more to the abuse, can’t they see how useless and ridiculous it is to use this same advise in the case of spouse abuse?

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  45. I wonder if he’s trying to copycat / jump on the bandwagon without really understanding.

    I suppose that could be, but I think that would almost be worse and would underscore my original impression that his first concern is not really the abuse victim. Now it’s either complementarianism or else his own or CBMW’s credibility (Though I suppose in the end those three are all the same thing.)

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  46. Keith,

    There are plenty of short men that are secure in their identity but there is a tendency for insecure short men to compensate for what they perceive as shortcomings by bullying other people. That’s all.

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  47. opinemine: I have heard this over the years, but I remain unconvinced. To me it is a shame that people are hung up on immutable characteristics.

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  48. Opinemine, you are so right. I have observed that in business and church life also over the years. Short man syndrome is more real than I would have ever imagined. I believe the tyrannical midget of Vision Forum is a perfect example. We grew up in the same area and he was always a shrimpy little dweeb but a bully. I hear he got beat up a lot.

    A guy that is say 5 6″ reads a few ads on Christian mingle where women specify that they are only interested in men 6′ and up , and boom they get all bent out of shape and are ready to dedicate their life to being a serial killer. Take a guy that is 5 10″ that reads the same profiles and he just clicks on to other profiles and it’s water off a ducks back.

    Same is true of weight issues but on the reverse. A guy says, ” if you are a BBW or more than 15 lbs overweight we will not be a love connection. Hit the treadmill “. Boom, suddenly he is NOT a Christian and every massively obese woman on the site is reporting his profile for ” vulgarity “.

    Human nature is sometimes sub-human. Look at many of the onward Christian bully brigade and you will find really short men and very ugly or massively overweight women, or just people that have kind of had a rough life because they were so unbelievably weird and socially awkward. Now they want to be a leeeeader , regardless of the fact that very few people are following them.

    I look back at the psyco teachers at the Christian school I attended. The ugly female teachers were the ones cutting off attractive girls ponytails ( because they played with it in class) or stapling cardboard to the hems of their dresses because they were too short. In reality these girls were dressed no differently than any of the other girls, they were targeted because they were something the beast teaching the class wasn’t . In the four years I was in that concentration camp of a school, three teachers were caught having sexual relations with students. Both of the “men” were midgets and the female teacher was humongous. The latter was alway paddling some boy for walking too slow in the hall ( traffic jams in a school of 225 kids k-12 were a real problem) or being “selfish ” by spending too much time at a water fountain when there was NO line. I have a friend that was there k-12 grade and she home schools. She won’t even put her kids in a Sunday school class with a unattractive, or fat woman or really short male teacher. Call that crazy but I remember that slob of a English teacher cutting her hair.

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  49. Scott: I think you should focus on the acts which you mentioned, not on the physical characteristics of those who committed them.

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  50. Let me guess Keith, you are 5′ 4″ or maybe 5′ 5″
    Whether you want to admit it or not there is a pattern there.
    Just because there is, is no reason for you to take it personally.

    By the way Charles Manson was 5′ 2″
    David Koresh also a short guy, 5′ 6″
    Adolf Hitler 5′ 8″
    Jim Jones also a short guy

    My favorite midget Doug Phillips of Vision Forum, dispite all the shoe lifts is still a petite tyrant.

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  51. Regarding Scott MAY 5, 2015 @ 9:51 AM post.

    It took me some time to realize I am an attractive woman. I had guys flirt with me in the past, but my self esteem was too low at the time to realize that some of them were flirting.

    Let me tell you, a lot of physically unattractive men – and sometimes, ones who are way too old for me – feel entitled to go on dates with me. They hit on me on dating sites, and I’ve had them hit on me in real life.

    Guys who are bald (sorry, I personally don’t find baldness attractive, don’t mean to offend any bald guys here), overweight, and/or who are missing two front teeth, all feel entitled to date a thin, attractive, much younger woman.

    There was a study a few years ago that said most men grossly over-estimate their attractiveness, while most women routinely under-estimate their attractiveness.

    It’s amazing how many weird, obese, physically unattractive dweeby, and/or socially awkward men all feel they deserve a much younger, in-shape, sexy, allluring, and accomplished woman. They need to get realistic about their dream woman.

    The guys that ask for “no women who are over 15 lbs over weight” in their profiles or who insist on such criteria when discussing women and dating on forums, tend to be MRA / MGTOW / MUA / PUA type guys who are dorky, dweeby, pockmarked skin, socially awkward, hostile towards women, entitled in their attitudes about women, and/or obese (like Roger Elliott, he fits some of these criteria, google his name)…. yet they all feel entitled to Angelina Joline movie star clones.

    They are never, ever going to get an attractive, socially adjusted, normal woman. But they keep shooting for such women, which only leads to more frustration on their part, which makes them hate all women, because their idea of a Trophy GF keeps turning them down.

    Anyway, I’m not sure how a thread about Strachan and CBMW got on to this other subject.

    CBMW is a sexist organization, and they uphold their sexism in the name of Christ, which makes it even more revolting. They basically teach that women are not equals to men, but turn around and say, “oh no, we believe women are equals.” No, they really don’t. They offer up a conflicting message, speaking out of both sides of their mouth.
    The Bait & Switch of Complementarians (page is a link to CBE site)

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  52. Scott: You are just baiting me so i will get modded. I did not take it personally. I made the point that one should not judge people based on immutable physical characteristics. The Bible supports this view. If you have anything more you want to say, message me on Facebook, as I post under my true name, Michael Keith Blankenship.

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  53. Keith, not at all. Just making an observation.
    Like I said, it’s a tendency of short men.
    There is a pattern there and even a term for it that goes back a long way and is commonly referred to in psychology text books as the Napolean Complex.

    I don’t do Facebook
    Have a good night.

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  54. Daisy, I have seen and experienced much of what you describe and more on some of the more popular Christian dating sites and have given up on Internet assisted dating. I actually hate the whole dating process anyway. One night I drove 4 hours (round trip ) to take a lady to dinner. She pulled out that Bill Gothard list of questions and started interagating me. She asked about everything from anatomical questions to my opinions on home schooling, spanking ( I hope she meant children but she never said) and whether I snore. For my four hour trip and $70 on dinner I ended up feeling like I had been water boarded by the CIA.

    Another time a woman 28 years my senior wrote me and claimed that God told her that we will be getting married. Another time someone more my age suggested I drive up to see her ( 500 miles away). She even told me what hotel to check into and that after three days with her at this hotel that I would know we are ” right” for each other. The funnest part was she was going to cook a ham and we would then go back to her place for this big dinner with her three elementary age children. Needless to say, I didn’t make the trip. I did have a great time reading her emails to my folks one night when we met for dinner. The look on their faces was worth the money I blew joining that site. When I was walking my folks out to their car my mom said, ” Scott if you ever want Ham I will cook one for you. If we are out of town stop off at the Honey Baked Ham store “.

    I laughed so hard when she said that, honey baked….. LOL

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  55. Glad your intelligent enough to not be surprised. My former vocation requires some personal security measures. I pretty much consider people that post all their family & personal business on FaceBook and or Twitter total idiots. Especially kids photos and the names of their schools. It’s like naive or demented parents are dangling them in front of pedophiles for sport. That being said now a days you can just take your kids to church to get molested. Especially if you are reformed and go to a Sovereign Grace ” church” or a similar cesspool.

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  56. “Scott” Why don’t you make an argument based on the Bible, that it is appropriate to judge people based on their immutable physical characteristics?

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  57. I’m Not judging anyone on their immutable physical characteristics, Keith. Just making a general observation that has led to the age old term “Napoleon complex “.
    Kind of hard to argue against the long history that repeatedly confirms the stereotype, so give your short man syndrome a rest. You don’t have to be the poster child for the 5 footers club or their legal spokesman. Nor are you automatically grouped in with the midgets I mentioned above, until you prove other wise.

    That being said, as someone that currently employs 74 people I will admit to being very slow to hire any guy shorter than 5′ 9” for a management position as they always seem to prove the above term accurate. It’s a real hassle as you always end up having to send them off for counseling with some feminist psychologist that specializes in diminutive stature syndrome, and end up getting double billed for a few sessions on small penis syndrome too. Blame it on those crazy feminists.

    With respect to getting into a scriptural debate over immutable characteristics I have no interest in playing your little game. I pretty much detest 50-60% of Christians I meet, and nearly 100% of the reformed camp. So you can write me off as one of those evil people that hate 5 point midgets and move on with your life.

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  58. Since you like to showcase yourself as quite the intellectual ( typical of the Reformed guys, with small penis syndrome who are occasionally VERY short) you might also want to google short man syndrome and read the Oxford and or Harvard studies on the matter.

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  59. Those were easily the most abusive comments ever made to me on a Christian blog. He must have me mixed up with someone else as I am not Reformed. I could easily point out other problems with the comments, but why bother. Very abusive.

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  60. Keith,

    Would you extend your sensitivity with respect to immutable characteristics to females? If you are a complementarian, how do you reconcile whining about short man jokes and treating women like second class citizens?

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  61. opinemine: “Whining”? None from me.Asking for a Biblical argument for a given position is not “whining”, especially on a Christian blog. My point was not limited to stature. As far as I can tell, the only one who has a problem with judging people by immutable characteristics was “Scott”. I don’t consider myself a complememtarian.

    I have had enough arguing with pseudonymous people for today. Have a good night.

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  62. Keith,

    At this blog, where people have sometimes left very abusive situations, I encourage people to use pseudonyms over real names. For some, it can me life threatening to post online about an abusive experience. Your comment about pseudonyms might have stung those who use them and I don’t ever want anyone to feel bad about using one.

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  63. JA: I understand that. Being accused of “whining” and being treated to posts like the ones by “Scott” are also unpleasant. I apologise for referencing the pseudonymous nature of the posts. I do not apologise for asking “Scott” for a scriptural basis for his position. His posts to me were far beyond the pale in my view. I have a very busy day tomorrow, so I should be going. Christ’s Blessings!

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  64. @Daisy

    LOL I love the “that escalated quickly” quote. I’ve seen the gif used in a few forums before. I even wondered how to post that gif in the comments here. Then I found it on YouTube.

    (This is not directed at anybody. I just think it’s hilarious.)

    Like

  65. Pingback: Do the Complementarian Mandates of Submssion and Male Leadership Attract Domestic Abusers? | The Wartburg Watch 2016

  66. Pingback: Complementarian Baptist Seminary President Paige Patterson, Who Made an Abused Woman Return Home, Hosts Men Only Banquet With Gun Giveaway | The Wartburg Watch 2016

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