God’s Design, Headship, Complementarianism, Biblical Gender Roles, The Fall
****
-by Kathi
This series is a review of God’s Design, a children’s book which teaches children about complementarity. For an introduction of the book, click here. All of the titles below are chapters in the book.
Today, children, we are going to learn about how man and woman rebelled against God’s design. Spoiler alert!…We’ll talk about one more than the other.
Rebellion Against God’s Design
This is where Satan enters the picture to trick the man to turn away from God. But, does Satan go to man first? No. He goes straight to the woman. Honestly, I’m surprised that Satan doesn’t receive much more credit than this. With all of the articles on Desiring God’s site about Satan and spiritual warfare, I was certain that Satan would be given much more of a platform. But, no, we’re left with this:
When Eve took the fruit and ate it, she was saying no to the authority of God in her life. She believed that life would be better for her if she did whatever she wanted to do. She rejected the headship of God over her, and also the headship of her husband, by taking the lead and doing what her heart told her to do. She took the lead and led both herself and Adam into sin.
The account goes like this: (Genesis 3:6) “When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.” Is it a fair conclusion by the authors that Eve took the lead and followed her heart? I can see how one might come to this conclusion by reading into the text. But, it isn’t good textual scholarship, especially when dealing with a Jewish text.
As far as Adam is concerned, his main problem was that he decided to join Eve in her sin. Adam did not maintain his God-given design to protect and lead Eve.
In the end, the authors could have focused this chapter mainly on how sin entered the world. Instead, they focused on how Adam and Eve decided to go against God’s order by not following their roles.
Continuing Rebellion in Man
There really isn’t much to say about this chapter, except that it annoys the you know what out of me. There are 10 paragraphs: three cover what happens to man as a result of his rebellion, and one covers what happens to the serpent. That leaves six, yes, SIX paragraphs that are dedicated to woman’s punishment. Isn’t this a chapter about man?
About the only thing talked about in terms of man is that now he would have to work hard when he doesn’t want to, and instead of serving as the head of the family, he will want his wife to take the lead. Seriously. That’s it.
I’ll leave this section short by including one of the follow-up questions to the chapter:
“Besides passivity, what other type of sin can men fall into because of the power of sin now at work in our hearts? (See Genesis 3:16.) What does it mean for a husband to ‘rule’ over a wife in a ‘domineering’ way? How is this a distortion of God’s good design for men and women?”
Continuing Rebellion in Woman
Do we really need this chapter? Haven’t we already covered how woman is the cause of all the evil in the world? Sigh…let’s move on…
The authors provide a great rhyming mnemonic device to help us remember what happened to woman when she sinned in the garden. Really, the book says:
You can remember this if you memorize these rhyming words: pain, reign, disdain, and in vain. Repeat these rhyming words and try to memorize them to remember this true story.
What, no clever, catchy memory trick for Adam passive aggressively letting Eve start the whole process of getting kicked out of the garden?
The authors reference Genesis 3:16 (ESV) for our fun learning activity: “To the woman he said, ‘I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.'” Notice that this book was written before the new change to this verse which will now read: “Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you.”
Back to our memory trick:
pain = Childbirth
reign = Woman will want to be in control of her husband. Betty Friedan is brought up as an example of the dreaded f-word (quietly whispers, feminist). This books seems to be targeted to young elementary age children. Do they need Betty Friedan slammed down their throat at this age?
disdain = The feminists! Again! Especially those who complain about being led by men. Oh, and women’s rebellion has brought so much sadness to the world. Feminists have brought abortion, blaming men for their problems and leaving their husbands, as well as not believing in submitting to men or wanting their protection or leadership (note: men and not husbands).
in vain = Nothing good has come of women being in rebellion.
I am getting the sense that this entire book is meant to teach little girls their place in the Christian home and church. Whenever the authors mention anything about men the text inevitably leads back to the design or problem of women. Nothing good is going to come of this book the longer that it is in my possession.
The final activity in this chapter is: “As a family, take part in a prolife activity or do something to support prolife efforts.”
I wholeheartedly say, “Yes!” Take part in prolife activities! Go to a nursing home and regularly visit an elderly person who doesn’t have family living near by. Take in a young pregnant woman who needs a safe home. Volunteer at school for kids who need extra tutoring. Support organizations such as Doctors Without Borders or Medical Teams International who are fighting in war-torn areas to save lives. Visit people in prison. There are so many “prolife” activities that parents can get their kids involved in.
****
If you would like to read prior reviews on God’s Design, here are links in the order of the book chapters:
Spiritual Sounding Board 
My goodness. This is pure garbage to teach young children.
LikeLiked by 2 people
There is a very stern and serious warning in The WORD OF GOD commanding us not to change it. Some how this author has overlooked this and perverted the Word. Worse, it’s directed at children. Pure sickness, I’m disgusted to hear of this.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I am not afraid to say this but this junk belongs in the trash. It is misogynist, and the Bible is twisted and raped in pure Calvinist style. Yes, anyone who has anything to do with John Piper, well, say no more. Also, the Reformed “bible”, the almighty ESV, is used mostly, another huge red flag. The assumptions that are made in this piece of nonsense book are biased and littered with reformed/calvinist terms and buzz words. This is indoctrination of the worst kind, and the authors should be held accountable somehow. This book is basically criminal apart from being 100% unbiblical.
I recommend this book to Satan; he’ll get a kick out of it and maybe sign a copy of it for himself; he is, after all the true inspiration behind it.
This excuse for a children’s book has CONTROL/SUBMISSION written all over it; I have seen it before, lived it before, endured it before. Oh, and the ever present reformed buzz word “headship” (which is nowhere in the Bible) makes a few visits, of course. have these false teachers, that pose as writers, never heard of the word “helper”?
The writers of this atrocity should be ashamed of themselves, but they won’t be, will they? It’s all been predestined and this wonderful man-worshipping, women-demeaning nonsense ids all to “god’s glory.” My foot.
No child should be exposed to this drivel; it would be a crime to do that, as it misinforms and lays the foundation for future abuse against women and girls…guaranteed.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Excellent article, Julie Anne!
LikeLiked by 2 people
Thanks, Forrest, but this is Kathi’s fine work. I don’t know what possessed her to want to read this book, but I’m sure glad she is so that we can keep up with the extra-biblical materials that children are being taught.
LikeLiked by 3 people
It is men that needed a helper, not women. That’s all I need to know. Women are the crown of God’s creation–His crescendo! The way Jesus related to women throughout the New Testament left the Jewish culture in shock and amazement. God, through Jesus, was constantly affirming their value and worth. It is an extremely insecure man that cannot see or accept this truth; and the most fearful and wicked of men twist God’s word to abuse and suppress women for the so-called benefit of men. Little do they know they are simply cutting off their own noses to spite their face. God does not look on this lightly! Enmity against women is alive and well and takes many forms, and you have just exposed it in this insidious children’s book. Thank you for your time invested in doing so.
LikeLiked by 3 people
I hate this book so so so much.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Heartalive2, your comment brought tears to my eyes. I have personally dealt with that enmity and it’s aftermath. I wish all could understand the beauty of a husband and wife relationship without suppression. Thank you!
LikeLike
Amen Boston Lady!
Will these great theologians change the Biblical text concluding the final antichrist figure before Jesus’ Second Coming? Scriptures describe this individual as “the man of perdition,” not the woman of perdition. Could it be that man is living in fear of losing his own authority, his own lordship, his own power, his own dominion, his own identity in Jesus Christ, that he has succumbed to the lies of the enemy in creating a pseudo kingdom of his own that is actually antichrist in and of itself?
Now we have children’s books that blame the woman for the fall of all mankind? Seriously….accompanied with pseudo innocent artistic illustrations to indoctrinate these innocent children into false Christian dominionism?
So when did God, our Father, love men more than women?
Folks, am I missing something here? I didn’t grow up complementarian, never heard the term in our assembly of believers, and certainly didn’t have these kinds of children’s(?) books in our possession. What are men, especially those with an official theological degree or a fake one as in many cases, truly afraid of? Jesus?
LikeLike
According to Genesis 3:16 in the literal Hebrew, what God actually said to Eve was
“A lying-in-wait has increased your sorrow and your sighing.”
Eve told the truth that she had been deceived and God confirmed that by recognizing that the devil had set a trap—laid in wait for her. So then God actually warns Eve that this will result in her “turning” toward Adam for comfort but Adam will try to use that to “rule over” her. There’s a huge difference between a warning and a command—if God commanded Adam to rule over Eve then God would have been commanding Cain to kill Abel in Gen 4:7!
The irony is that these profound Bible scholars who wrote this children’s book completely miss the real person trying to usurp God’s authority—the devil! The devil is the unsubmissive one who rebelled against God! God points this out when He deals with Adam and Eve.
“Adam made an evil choice, advancing to the side of the serpent in becoming a false accuser of God. But Eve, by her exposure of the character of satan before his very face, created an enmity between herself and him.”
“What followed was God’s decision to draw the woman yet farther away from satan by saying “I will put enmity between you and the woman.” In effect, God is saying that woman chose to make the breach, “I will widen it.” The Bible from its opening chapters, pictures woman as allied with God in the eventual salvation of the world. Paganism represents her as allied with the devil for the ruin of man.”
That’s from the book—God’s Word to Women by Dr. Katharine Bushnell (1855-1946). She was on the front lines of fighting domestic violence in a time when the laws protected abusers. She blew the lid off a massive human trafficking ring resulting in the state of Wisconsin passing the “Kate Bushnell” bill to protect women. But even after all she had accomplished in passing new laws both in America and England, she finally realized that women would still suffer as long as they were being taught that God had commanded their suffering in Gen 3:16. Long story short—that’s what motivated her to study the Bible in the original Hebrew where she found that God was NOT the misogynyist that the church was teaching.
I could go on and on but my point is that this verse has been used to justify so much violence towards women that those kinds of books are not harmless.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Putting all the blame on Eve always drives me up a tree, Kathi. Adam was there the whole time, for crying out loud!
There’s Adam, just standing by while Eve has this conversation, plucks the fruit and bites down on it. He knew God’s command about the tree and did nothing, which leads to another question. Why didn’t he say, “Eve, that’s not how God put it. I don’t know where the serpent got his information, but I was there and he wasn’t when God told me about that tree.” – Why Women Can’t Trust Men.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Kathi,
This: “You can remember this if you memorize these rhyming words: pain, reign, disdain, and in vain. Repeat these rhyming words and try to memorize them to remember this true story.”
What would be the purpose of memorizing this? Think about it. How is having this memorized going to benefit someone? Oh, that’s right, it’s not, unless you are a little boy and you will use it against your wife one day. This makes me want to puke. This is NOT who women are in Christ. We are His image bearers. Good grief.
LikeLike
Kathi must have an incredibly strong stomach.
LikeLiked by 1 person
It’s all crazy-making, isn’t it?!
What I find amazing is that this is a Hebrew text. Why don’t these authors look at Jewish scholarship to find the differing opinions on this text? It really is quite interesting.
I have always viewed the creation account as a story, or a way of trying to understand how the world and humans came to be. Pretty much every religion or native cultures has some sort of creation story. But, Christians seem to walk to take an ancient text and view it with a literal interpretation.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Serving Kids – I have a strong stomach, but I’m quickly losing patience!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Julie Anne – I know…what killed me was memorizing “this true story.” Shesh! Again, Adam gets a pass.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Sadly, if women are this bad (according to this book), it begs the question, “Why interact with women apart from sex and child raising?”
Children are taught by this book that women are —
–disobedient
–stupid and gullible
–want to dominate men
–cause trouble
That’s the bottom line for fundamentalists. Women are necessary temptresses and sex slaves, but in all other ways women are to be silenced and ignored and avoided.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Some quotes by the fathers of two or so of the biggest lies deceptions of satan at all time, I hope this will shed some light on this topic about Eve, and women in general:
Woman does not possess the image of God in herself but only when taken together
with the male who is her head, so that the whole substance is one image. But
when she is assigned the role as helpmate, a function that pertains to her
alone, then she is not the image of God. But as far as the man is concerned, he
is by himself alone the image of God just as fully and completely as when he and
the woman are joined together into one. –”Saint” Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354-430)
(Does that not want to make you throw up?)
What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman… I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children. –the same gnostic “saint” Augustine
The word and works of God is quite clear, that women were made either to be wives or prostitutes. –Martin Luther, Reformer (1483-1546), (Works 12.94)
Yes, and this is one the reformers’ “gods.” Hang me,please.
The wonderful, impeccable “man of God” dirty mind Luther…again: ““Even though they grow weary and wear themselves out with child-bearing, it does not matter; let them go on bearing children till they die, that is what they are there for.”
Martin Luther, Works 20.84
Men have broad and large chests, and small narrow hips, and more understanding than women, who have but small and narrow breasts, and broad hips, to the end they should remain at home, sit still, keep house, and bear and bring up children. –Martin Luther, Reformer (1483-1546), Table Talk. (I actually despise this fraud.)
“If the husband is unwilling, there is another who is; if the wife is unwilling, then let the maid come.” (ref. Of Married Life). Martin Luther, again. Oh la la, Do these reformers (and Calvinists) have a thing about sex, or what?
A last one from Luther (oh, there are many more): ““We may well lie with what seems to be a woman of flesh and blood, and yet all the time it is only a devil in the shape of a woman.”
Thus the woman, who had perversely exceeded her proper bounds, is forced back to her own position. She had, indeed, previously been subject to her husband, but that was a liberal and gentle subjection; now, however, she is cast into servitude. –John Calvin, Reformer (1509-1564): Commentary on Genesis, p. 172.
The biggest devil of them all, this Calvin blasphemer.
Even as the church must fear Christ Jesus, so must the wives also fear their husbands. And this inward fear must be shewed by an outward meekness and lowliness in her speeches and carriage to her husband. . . . For if there be not fear and reverence in the inferior, there can be no sound nor constant honor yielded to the superior. –John Dod: A Plaine and Familiar Exposition of the Ten Commandments, Puritan guidebook first published in 1603.
Puritans? No, blood-hungry wolves! Everything but “pure” in any sense of the words, please check out their history in England and places…it’s horrendous!
The second duty of the wife is constant obedience and subjection. –John Dod: A Plaine and Familiar Exposition of the Ten Commandments, Puritan guidebook first published in 1603.
A wife is to submit graciously to the servant leadership of her husband, even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ. –Official Faith and Message Statement of Southern Baptist Convention, Summer 1998, (15.7 million members)
Well, I’ll be damned. Where in the Bible is this specific verse?
Women will be saved by going back to that role that God has chosen for them. Ladies, if the hair on the back of your neck stands up it is because you are fighting your role in the scripture. –Mark Driscoll, pervert and blasphemer, who once ran a so-called church and had nothing but filthy sex unnatural acts too) on his little mind.
There you have it. Is it clear enough? And today;s church (that of the TULIP and reformed variety) believe the very same thing; do not be fooled. Many of you, and I, can testify to that.
How did the Lord Jesus treat woman? Fantastically, compassionately, with the utmost love and respect. There, that’s what’s important.
LikeLiked by 2 people
That’s some pretty sick,twisted stuff. No wonder Jesus had to directly attack misogyny in the church and warned us “beware of men.”
(No offense to all the righteous men reading this right now who know how to follow the footsteps of Christ, not the footsteps of Christians.) 🙂
LikeLike
Quote from the book:
I don’t see the Bible talking near as much about authority and headship and stuff as complementarians claim to find it in the Bible on about every page.
When I have read the story about Eve eating the forbidden fruit, it was described in terms of she was disobeying God (not her husband or her husband’s supposed headship, spare me, and it wasn’t composed in terms of Eve rejecting “God’s headship”),
and it says she was tempted because the serpent told her she would “be like God” and “never die.” (If I am remembering right.)
I don’t recall the text saying that the serpent told her,
“Yo, Eve, eat this apple, and you will be ruler over your husband, be in authority over him, and do whatever you want, tee hee, cackle cackle.”
Gender Complementarians sure do like to engage in Eisegesis.
LikeLiked by 1 person
and it says she was tempted because the serpent told her she would “be like God” and “never die.” (If I am remembering right.)
Or it said she would “know good from evil.”
(There was squat in the text about Eve feeling tempted because HEADSHIP and AUTHORITY.)
LikeLiked by 1 person
Original Post said,
Uh, no, especially the part in the bold.
The Bible does NOT say men will “want their wive to take the lead.” That is more pure Eisegesis.
There are men who are lazy and expect their wife or sweetie to do most of the heavy lifting in the relationship, but that’s not due per se to some kind of specific gender-related curse from the Fall back in Genesis, give me a break.
I am also puzzled that complementarians keep insisting women want to wrest authority away from men. Not only does the text not say that, but on a personal level for me, that’s not true.
I’ve always been more comfortable being a follower vs being a leader. I’m pretty much fine and dandy taking direction from authority figures, provided they are selfish or jerky or have some other huge, recurrent character flaw that makes my life or job more difficult or make them unpleasant to socialize with.
LikeLike
I said above,
“I’m pretty much fine and dandy taking direction from authority figures, provided they are selfish or jerky or have some other huge”
I meant provided that do NOT (NOT!!) have those qualities!
LikeLiked by 1 person
The Horrible book quoted in the OP said,
The Bible largely rejects either biological sex acting in a passive fashion.
The only exception we might see to women being asked to be “passive” is in the New Testament, where Paul or Peter ask women at a particular church about 2,000 years ago to be gentle in demeanor, as he did not want the Non-Christians in the culture around them to be turned off to the Christian faith, due to cultural views and practices which looked down on out-spoken women.
But in the overall scheme of the Bible, God does not want either gender to be passive, but to be brave and assertive.
Passivity is one characteristic of codependency.
I have a big, long blog post on my ‘Miss Daily Blog’ that explains how gender complementarianism is basically a carbon copy of Codependency, but with Bible verses painted on top to pretty it up for Christian consumption.
Asking women to be even more passive than they already are by nature, and how secular culture demands them to be, is to actually enforce what God condemns in the Bible, and what God predicted would be one negative outcome of the fall:
Women being passive, fearful, and turning to men for security and protection, rather than God, which opens women up to being exploited by the male gender.
Complementarians take a sin and try to wrap it up in a bow and say it’s a virtue. It’s demonic how they warp the Bible like that.
LikeLike
After having read through the rest of the original blog post about the children’s book…
I should maybe eventually make a blog post about this on my own blog soon (come to think of it, I may have already briefly blogged on this once before), but….
If you are a Christian, your identity is supposed to be grounded in JESUS CHRIST.
Not your gender. Not a gender role. Not in being a parent. Not in being a spouse.
Not in what Eve or Adam did in Genesis chapters 1 – 3.
LikeLiked by 1 person
OP said (summarizing book),
Whoever wrote that book might want to read this:
_Perhaps Feminism is not the Enemy_
LikeLike
Daisy –
Re: your above comment, the book says this:
“Women have believed the lie that submission is a bad thing and have not wanted the protection and leadership of men.”
I noted that they said “men” and not “husband.” Which leads me to believe that they think that women should submit to all men, not only fathers and husbands. Which doesn’t surprise me in the least bit, especially since Piper thinks that women cannot be in a job position in which she gives direction to men. Why? Because the poor little saps might have “profound biblical and psychological issues.” Pffftttt…..
http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/should-women-be-police-officers
LikeLiked by 2 people
Kathi said,
About Point 1.
Why do complementarians constantly ignore passages such as Eph 5.21 (I think it is) that says all believers are to submit to all other believers (this would include all men, and husbands),
As well as passages where Christians are told NOT to seek to have authority over each other, but to serve each other, etc??
Being a Christian is not about one-way submission or authority over or seeking after control or power.
Complementarians are constantly doing the opposite of what Jesus and the New Testament taught and telling men to seek authority over other people, primarily women.
Complementarians are constantly seeking to establish hierarchy among believers and arguing in favor of it, but the Bible is always saying NOT to do that.
Point 2.
I’ve often noticed that the Bible does not ask or tell un-married women in particular to submit to men, the way the Eph 5.22 verse does for marital couples, where it says “wives submit to your husbands.”
I mean, there is no verse which explicitly states, “Never married, widowed, and divorced women, verily I say unto you, you art to submit to all men.”
So, there is no leverage there for complementarians to say single women are under authority to any man.
I have no idea where they get this idea from that ALL women (even un-married ones) must submit to any and all men – it’s simply not in the Bible at all.
Regarding Piper. I think his teachings are sexist and weird. We’re on the same page there, too 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
Oh, I almost forgot:
(POINT 1)
“Women have believed the lie that submission is a bad thing and have not wanted the protection and leadership of men.”
Um, no. The problem a lot of egalitarians and mutualists have with the complementarian notion of “submission” is that they define it to mean only women must submit to men (but the Bible says men must also submit to women),
AND, they teach “submit” not in a biblical sense, but to mean, one must be in a servile, second class state, sort of like Hindu people born into a lower caste system, or an employee to a boss.
I don’t think any egalitarian Christians object to submission if it’s taught and practiced properly, which would be, it’s a mutual practice (everyone does it, not just wives, or not just women), it’s VOLUNTARY (churches: stop demanding it of women and telling men it doesn’t apply to men), and if it’s understood to mean lovingly and willingly serving another person – (not being a servant, free maid, blow up sex doll, etc.)
LikeLiked by 1 person
I need to go back and read the whole article but I just wanna say I love that doodle on the notebook paper 😀
LikeLiked by 1 person
“Women have believed the lie that submission is a bad thing and have not wanted the protection and leadership of men.”
After following a lot of stories coming out of churches in the news, I have come to see they use that word “protection” the way the mafia does.
LikeLiked by 1 person
This hideous book deserves to be mocked in the world at large.
LikeLike
Shy, maybe ‘protection’ of men is kind of like the mafia…they are the threat but if you pay your protection money they will protect you from Themselves.
I love how these men can’t seem to understand that maybe some aspects of feminism came about precisely because women needed protection from men.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Reblogged this on GBFSV SPIRITUAL ABUSE VICTIMS' RECOVERY.
LikeLike
Boston Lady,
Thank-you, thank-you for posting those quotes from men who are regarded highly within Christendom as saints, as church fathers, etc. I was aware of Luther’s, Calvin’s and Driscoll’s wicked and evil beliefs concerning women, but was shocked by the man labeled ‘saint’ Augustine and the Puritans’ view.
I have been told by many a religious folk, both men and women alike, how ‘godly’ the Puritans were in the history of our country. The more I learn about our so called ‘romantic’ history, the more the Book of Ecclesiates comes to mind, “There is nothing new under the sun.”
It is becoming easier and easier for me to see the religions of Islam/Sharia and Christianity combining into one religion, for the view of women in Islam is truly wicked, and the increasing focus of male domination within the visible church is coming more and more into alignment with Sharia.
LikeLike
Owen Strachan and someone from Bethlehem Baptist whom I can no longer find both gave the book good reviews. I haven’t read it, but it can’t be all bad, surely.
LikeLike
Shy1 – The devil made me doodle. 😉
LikeLiked by 1 person
KAS- why can’t it be all bad?
LikeLike
Kathi- 😀
LikeLike
From anyone else I would take this as sarcasm!
LikeLike
Katy, it was a pleasure posting those quotes. But there are many, many more, and there are many more things being kept from the laity, and we women are especially vulnerable and most times even gullible.
There’s a book going around and has been for a while; it’s called ” Valley of the Vision” by the so-called Puritans, and it’s a hit in certain circles, obviously, but it’s as mystical as they come, And thousands of women have replaced Bible reading with that stinker. Katy, Please do research on them, the Puritans and “saint” Augustine. It will change your life for the better. I. Promise. You.
There was absolutely nothing “godly” about the Puritans; you have fallen, like countless others, for the Reformed propagandist machine.
Katy, in most churches of a certain man-made philosophy, women are cut down and treated as slaves/second-hand citizens/garbage; I can vouch for that with my life. Women are just never right and men are just never wrong, and yes, there are frightening resemblances between Muslim laws and the antics of a movement that pushes a certain philosophy based on a heretic named Calvin and his Reformed buddies.
Always speak out, Katy, speak in love, in truth, and don’t be scared! Jesus loves women JUST as much as he loves men; in His eyes, there are no spiritual/mental difference or a contrast in value!
LikeLiked by 2 people
I just noticed the heading in the book in the photo,
“Rebellion Against God’s Design”
Maybe this is somewhat of a repeat of a point I made earlier in this thread, but, it’s so weird to me how complementarians insist on portraying the Fall of humanity, when sin first entered the world, as being a distortion of gender roles.
They want to ground everything in the topic of gender roles.
The Bible itself does not do so. The Bible (in Genesis, and I think parts of the New Testament) say that the problem with Adam and Eve and the Fall is that Adam and Eve disobeyed God’s command. God told them not to eat the fruit, but they ate the fruit anyway.
That was the crux of the matter, not gender, not that Adam is a man and Eve is a woman.
The Bible shows that the issue is that Eve disobeyed God’s command, not that she didn’t submit to Adam’s supposed “headship.”
Complementarians distort the entire Bible to cram anything and everything into their obsession about gender. They are far more preoccupied about gender than God or Jesus Christ is.
Well, ironically, where Jesus dealt with gender in a round-about way, when he interacted with women, he bucked the patriarchal religious and cultural norms of his day (which are similar to what complementarians today believe) to treat women as equal to men.
(Equal does not mean “the same as” for any complementarians who may be reading this.)
LikeLike
Owen Strachan — the weirdo who got a case of the vapours over Baby Bear playing with dolls on “Sesame Street”.
http://cbmw.org/topics/culture/the-gospel-is-for-baby-bear-on-sesame-street-and-gender-confusion/
Why on earth would I take him seriously? Apart form talking like a fool and helping to lead an unabashedly chauvinistic organization, what has he done to earn my respect?
LikeLike
P.S. to my comment:
Isn’t Bethlehem Baptist John Piper’s old church? If so, then of course, someone from there should be available to give this book a positive review. After all, there must be a few of the Pied Piper’s pet lemmings at Bethlehem. Why wouldn’t one of his devotees praise the work of his proteges?
LikeLike
These are all good points. When the whole of scripture is taken into account, Adam bears the blame for plunging humanity into rebellion against God. And like a predator, Satan went for the easier-influenced of the two. Even so, Adam should have put a stop to that temptation.
At least things will work out in the end. Christ, the last Adam, will take back what the first Adam foolishly lost.
LikeLike
Serving Kids – One of the co-authors, Sally Michaels was Minster of Children at Bethlehem Baptist when Piper was there. How she maintained the title “Minister” is beyond me.
LikeLike
Lea – From anyone else I would take this as sarcasm!
It wasn’t sarcasm, but it was tongue-in-cheek. The complementarian camp would find the book good, wouldn’t they. CBWM in the form of Owen, and a reviewer from Piper’s old outfit, the book comes from their stable. Of course they are going to like it.
The review here is from the egalitarian perspective, no great surprise there. But on reading it, I couldn’t but help notice there is not one word said about it that is positive. It’s too partisan. No review is going to be totally objective, that is only to be expected, but too much subjective opinion based on existing assumptions – done by either side on this issue – renders any review less than satisfactory, particularly to anyone who doesn’t have militant views on it already.
It might well be the book does contain serious faults. Its description of the fall might be out of balance, especially if it over-emphasises the role of Eve when the bible as a whole puts the responsibility firmly on Adam’s shoulders.
I noticed a very ‘European’ Adam and Eve from the picture!
On the other hand, it does at least contain the phrase What does it mean for a husband to ‘rule’ over a wife in a ‘domineering’ way? How is this a distortion of God’s good design for men and women?” which ought to be the starting point for ensuring that such teaching is not abused by being distorted. It acknowledges the possibility of this.
The comments this brought forth carried on in the same vein. I have gathered them together, at no extra charge, for your edification and enlightenment:
“pure garbage … Pure sickness … junk belongs in the trash … misogynist nonsense … Bible is twisted and raped … basically criminal apart from being 100% unbiblical … Satan is, after all the true inspiration behind it. … Atrocity … women-demeaning nonsense … drivel; … I hate this book … Women are necessary temptresses and sex slaves, … pretty sick, twisted stuff … hideous … book deserves to be mocked.”
The expression the lady doth protest too much methinks comes to mind.
Children will actually learn how to treat the opposite sex far more from how their parents actually treat each other than from any amount of books and sermons, good (or not!) as these may be.
LikeLike
KAS, Word is out that Bethlehem Baptist is excommunicating a wife and mom of 9 kids for finally leaving her abusive husband. They are not helping her and her kids be safe but punishing her.
That is the Piper teaching source for the book. I am so sorry you can’t see where such teaching can ultimately lead when a group of humans are viewed as less due to gender. Maybe it is because it benefits you in some way?
LikeLiked by 2 people
“Children will actually learn how to treat the opposite sex far more from how their parents actually treat each other than from any amount of books and sermons, good (or not!) as these may be.”
Yes. Children are taught the Orwellian lie that some humans are more equal than others…..at church. Sadly, grown-ups at church buy into it not realizing the are accepting the twisted teaching of promoting a sin of the fall as virtue.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Katy, here’s a quote from the heretic and false teacher Luther just for you. Enjoy it and please don’t be sick:
Luther “teaches”: “Christ committed adultery first of all with the women at the well about whom John tells us. Was not everybody about Him saying, ‘Whatever has He been doing with her?’ Secondly, with Mary Magdalen, and thirdly with the woman taken in adultery whom He dismissed so lightly. Thus even, Christ who was so righteous, must have been guilty of fornication before He died. (Sited from: Trish Reden Weimar Edition Vol 2, pg107).
Blasphemy, anyone? Do you smell the devil’s tail yet?
And Kas, no, we are not protesting too much; not at all. This book is garbage, it is criminal, and it is indoctrinative in nature. And it is not biblical. It is blatantly sexist, and it does rape scripture, rape being the operative word. Lydia00 is correct in her prediction of where this nonsense book will ultimately lead. Guard your childern against this.
LikeLike
Katy, You might enjoy the Luther insulter which are quotes taken from his writings. KAS could keep busy lecturing him. :o)
http://ergofabulous.org/luther/?
LikeLike
Oops, Sorry Boston Lady, that reply was for you.
LikeLike
The word and works of God is quite clear, that women were made either to be wives or prostitutes. –Martin Luther, Reformer (1483-1546), Works 12.94
No gown worse becomes a woman than the desire to be wise. –Martin Luther, Reformer (1483-1546)
Men have broad and large chests, and small narrow hips, and more understanding than women, who have but small and narrow breasts, and broad hips, to the end they should remain at home, sit still, keep house, and bear and bring up children. –Martin Luther, Reformer (1483-1546), Table Talk
Thus the woman, who had perversely exceeded her proper bounds, is forced back to her own position. She had, indeed, previously been subject to her husband, but that was a liberal and gentle subjection; now, however, she is cast into servitude. –John Calvin, Reformer (1509-1564): Commentary on Genesis, p. 172.
LikeLike
Woman does not possess the image of God in herself but only when taken together
with the male who is her head, so that the whole substance is one image. But
when she is assigned the role as helpmate, a function that pertains to her
alone, then she is not the image of God. But as far as the man is concerned, he
is by himself alone the image of God just as fully and completely as when he and
the woman are joined together into one. –Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354-430)
The above is where Bruce Ware and Piper get their “theology” that women are not made in the “direct” image of God.
What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman… I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children. –Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354 – 430): De genesi ad litteram, 9, 5-9
LikeLike
KAS, do you have children of your own?
Or would a housedog enjoy this type of reading for the simple fact that it is receiving attention from its master/owner?
LikeLiked by 1 person
“Owen Strachan — the weirdo who got a case of the vapours over Baby Bear playing with dolls on “Sesame Street”.”
That would also be the Owen Strachan of “sanctified testosterone” fame from T$G’s CBMW pre-conference.
It was testosterone that took Jesus to the cross, dontca know? The tweets from that conference were preposterous. But many actually believe them and follow them. And we are to find something…anything positive to say about this stuff or we are in sin..
So very Rick Warrenish.
LikeLiked by 1 person
……and mankind, in his vain futile wisdom, names an entire religious denomination after a man called Martin Luther. Jesus would be so proud????
It strikes me as odd how easily we break our LORD’S first command to love Him more than anything or anyone else, and yet, man is right up there riding that golden bull.
Are Martin Luther’s penned words a prime example of wisdom as defined by the Word of God? For out of the heart, doth not the mouth speaketh?
Through beginning research, I am learning the name “Puritan” is a myth. Thank-you ladies for pointing out gems of truth!
LikeLike
LYDIA make it stop I’m dying
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
LikeLiked by 1 person
And another thought just occurred to me…..what would happen if that Lutheran pastor man approached his elevated pulpit on let’s say Easter or Christmas, when attendance is high, and man’s wallets are overflowing waiting in anticipation for that tithing plate to pass, if the “Book of Martin Luther” were read in place of let’s say just for this moment, the “Book of (Dr.) Rick Warren, John MacArthur, Jonathon Kahn (name any man or woman here)?” Side note: most churches do not have the pew sitters open up the Bibles in studying God’s Word Scripture upon Scripture verse in context.
Can you imagine sitting in the pew, and hearing from the pulpit, “Yes folks, this great man of god, Martin Luther, through his educated wisdom and superior intelligence, condensed a god’s creation order when he made mankind, and “the words and works of god are quite clear, that women were made to be either wives or prostitutes.” What would be the outcome following a religious service of Luther’s heresies? Outrage and dissension amongst husbands/wives or mingling over to the coffee bar, purchasing sugary pastries and strong coffee?
And the pseudo wise are criticizing some folks speech on this blog? Seriously? Luther’s penned writings are not above reproach for he is not God, a god, nor someone I would choose to honor as a trustworthy/wise follower of Jesus Christ.
LikeLike
This is slightly off topic but not too far of!
Lydia, yes, that site is funny but run by a Lutheran, so all the juicy stuff is NOT there, ya know? But it is good for a laugh (a sad laugh), which is needed right about now. You obviously know about his hate for the Jews (which, those of as certain philosophical persuasion) will tell you that EVERYBODY hated the Jews then just as every heretic was murdered in the devil Calvin’s time; same old excuses, over and over again.
Here’s one anti-semitic quote:
“Such a desperate, thoroughly evil, poisonous and devilish lot are these Jews, who for these fourteen hundred years have been and still are our plague, our pestilence, and our misfortune. “Martin Luther—Angel to the Fifth or Sardis Church Age 1520-1752
Oh, and this beauty: “We are at fault for not slaying them.”
And Katy, you keep on digging. Yep, the Puritans (both in the States, in New England) and the lot in England who tried to take over and purify the whole place by weird “means” (executions, etc., especially in Boston area and so on) are not people to follow in any shape of form.
Have a look at this little article, Katy:
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/goldman/works/1917/puritanism.htm
Yes, the “godly” fakes even used the death penalty to punish boys who disobeyed or assaulted their parents; whether they actually killed one of their own does not matter…
Bless you, sisters!
LikeLike
I read Augustine’s autobiography awhile back. I remember telling my husband “he (Augustine) had a sexual addiction that he was totally in denial over.” My husband is a recovering sex addict so we’ve spent a lot of time researching sex and addictions in general. Reading about Augustine’s background and then the things he said about women, to me very much screamed sexual addiction. And this is someone who’s writings the church has taken as gospel for hundreds of years. No wonder we have such a messed up view of sex and women in the church.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Avid reader,
You hit the nail on the head! What blasphemy to subscribe to God what is really from the evil one.
I highly recommend the book written by the medical doctor and missionary, Bushnell. She did her homework in the era of snail mail enlisting the input of Hebrew scholars all over the world. She instinctively knew God was not the moral monster He had been sold as.
My quotes are to show how ingrained, historically, the lies are.
LikeLike
JayD,
Augustine had a child by his long time concubine he claimed to love but could not marry for social caste reasons. He becomes a Christian then believes the “Christian” thing to do is banish her so she never sees her son again. She has no rights so what can she do? Such is the Christian character of Augustine. A “man of his time” when the Holy Spirit was AWOL from believers?
LikeLike
Boston Lady, Luther also ended up siding with the Electors and Princes against the peasants who wanted more just treatment. The Electors and Princes were Luther’s protectors.
The entire Reformation was church-state-land political. You rarely hear that part. It was a step in the right direction to break the chokehold of power Catholicism had but sadly, the Reformers acted just like the Catholic leaders when they got their own power. Read the Theses. They are almost all about Indulgences. Money that went to Rome.
LikeLike
Lydia! Heehee!! Yes, only a precious few (Augustine and fellow gnostics) had the Holy Spirit. And then Augustine died and . . . thanks to an “act of God” Calvin rediscovered the truth some 1200 years and a couple of murders later. I am so glad God told us in the Bible (in the book of Unfinished Business, Chapter 1) that someone greater than He (Jesus) would come some 1500 years later and that he would be the great “philosopher” and new savior Calvin because somehow Jesus articulated poorly and no one understood Him, unless all born-again believer until the time of Augustine. May God have mercy!
And this little children’s book is based on the lies of these “christian” men. Lord help us; today!
LikeLike
I meant to say “except” born-again believers until the time of Augustine. (Not “unless,” you can tell it’s Friday somewhere already!)
LikeLike
Katy,
And we are often told they were just men of their time as if the Holy Spirit was AWOL.
This is a lesson for us not to be “people of our time” but “believers” in our time.
LikeLike
Salty, it’s pure insanity isn’t it? So we have Piper’s Desiring God staff carrying on the evil traditions of man indoctrinating children.
Take your kids and RUN, people! Undeveloped brains should be taught to think and reason. Not be indoctrinated!
LikeLike
“Serving Kids – One of the co-authors, Sally Michaels was Minster of Children at Bethlehem Baptist when Piper was there. How she maintained the title “Minister” is beyond me.”
Real simple: Roles focus and gender segregation.
Piper and his elders instituted a rule at Bethlehem that women could not read scripture aloud in the presence of men at church. That would be women “teaching” men.
Many inquired on blogs the age boys become men at Bethlehem so it would be a sin for adult women to read scripture to them but no answer was ever forthcoming.
LikeLiked by 1 person
And I completely stand by that one, KAS. What are we supposed to praise the drawings when the words are wrong? Come on.
If you think it’s so great, tell us why.
LikeLiked by 1 person
BL: Thus even, Christ who was so righteous, must have been guilty of fornication before He died. (Sited from: Trish Reden Weimar Edition Vol 2, pg107). (Luther)
The internet is an interesting place. The typo Trish Reden occurs more than once!
I think you are jumping to conclusions. This statement which at first sight appears outrageous is a context-less comment taken down by one of Luther’s followers, and liked by Catholics for obvious reasons. Since the scripture says Christ became sin for us that in him we might become the righteousness of God, it could mean no more than Christ ‘became an adulterer’ (which is more what the German says, not ‘he committed adultery’) so that the woman taken in adultery could be forgiven through his later death. Luther might have been reporting what others said of Christ, his alleged illegitimacy or guilt by association by being with social outcasts comes to mind. That is the non-Catholic line.
I might add I am not a Lutheran, I’ve read almost nothing of Luther himself, I don’t like his insertion of alone as in faith alone in Rom 3 : 28, and I aware of his remarks about the Jews, an attitude not confined to him and a real stain on the church in its history. So I don’t have a horse in this race. But I’m glad he gave the common man more access to the bible and took salvation out of the hands of an institutional priesthood.
LikeLike
If you think it’s so great, tell us why.
I don’t have an opinion on it, I haven’t read it. I have read various reviews, and depending which side of the gender roles fence the person is sitting on the review is good or bad.
It is good that the authors believe in God, and that he has said something to us about how family life should be structured. It’s good they want scripture to inform this rather than the television or Hollywood. All the more so in view of the gender confusion in society at large all too often. To discern whether they have done a good or reasonable job reflecting what the bible says requires reading the book. The vehemance of the oppostion to it does make me suspect other factors are at work not necessarily directly linked to what the book actually says.
I hope the book, like Luther and the reformation, is not an over-reaction to developments in society at large, where correcting one error gets dangerously close to creating an equal and opposite error.
LikeLike
@ KAS OCTOBER 7, 2016 @ 12:49 AM
I’m an ex-gender complementarian. I was raised in this stuff, and it is harmful and it is trash. It’s sick that Christians are writing kiddie books about it to indoctrinate girls really young.
You should visit my Miss Daisy Blog some time, where I have explained my background with having once been gender comp and how it harmed me:
_Miss Daisy Flower Blog_
Complementarianism is sexism. It’s not biblical.
Christians should be protesting even more against the swill of complementarianism than they are.
Some complementarians are also speaking up against the excesses of complementarianism, such as Aimee Byrd in her blog posts.
LikeLike
KAS,
Luther has a thousand other quotes that simply can’t be reasoned or explained away. He was a false teacher, a heretic, and one of the founders of one of the most destructive man-made movements in history. Like Calvinists, Luther’s followers and worshipers (whereas only God should be worshiped) twist and lie to protect their idols, their means of income and control and AUTHORITY over all and sundry but mostly over we women.
Luther was a heretic and I stand by the quote, as I have researched it at various reputable places and people ages ago already. Luther was sick, spiritually and mentally, a sicko.
LikeLike
“It is good that the authors believe in God, and that he has said something to us about how family life should be structured. It’s good they want scripture to inform this rather than the television or Hollywood. All the more so in view of the gender confusion in society at large all too often. To discern whether they have done a good or reasonable job reflecting what the bible says requires reading the book. The vehemance of the oppostion to it does make me suspect other factors are at work not necessarily directly linked to what the book actually says.”
Ah. Ha. . So Truth is relative depending on what you are comparing it to. Got it.
Islam believes in God. And have structured family life. Mormons, too. This book would work for both religions as it pertains to women.
LikeLike
This game is so silly. People don’t like what they’ve read, so they have to ‘other factors’? I think everyone has been quite clear why they don’t like it – it is indoctrinating small children with lies that make them, in the case of little girls, doubt their worth. You don’t agree, or maybe you think little girls should doubt their worth, fine, but don’t expect me to try to find some good in the midst of this. A little yeast leavens the dough, a little bad if its bad enough works through the whole thing.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Lydia said,
Yes, indeed.
Some Muslims like Family Values too, one of which is, in their view, keeping women in a subservient state to men, just like Christian gender complementarians.
This Muslim Mother cares so deeply that her son be exposed to Family Values, she moved herself and her son to ISIS-controlled areas, because ISIS is, she thinks, very Pro-Family Values:
_‘I moved to live under ISIS to keep my son from sex, crime, drink and drugs’: Muslim mother claims she ran away TO terror group’s stronghold to start a ‘better life’ – Asiya Ummi Abdullah, 24book_
_Turks leave for “family-friendly” Islamic State_ (on Salon’s site)
LikeLike
I’m nauseous! This is all so “co-heir” honoring. How can we treat any human being this way and call it godly? I’m just sick!
LikeLike
Exactly, Toiler! It truly is sick. Welcome to the blog, btw 🙂
LikeLike
Toiler, because MEN and their hollow philosophies have said so, not Jesus.
LikeLike
Another thing…isn’t THIS just God’s description coming true? Men ARE ruling over us, right? If they can maintain the pulpit, maintain the audio bites, maintain the books, maintain the talking points…then…they can keep the message and maintain the rule. It further illustrates the idea that the fall was descriptive.
The sad thing is that Christ followers are supposed to be redeemed and NOT live by this ruler mentality anymore. Maybe the wheat is truly being separated from the chaff. You will know them by their fruit. Let’s take a small look at the fruits of the spirit and compare them with this garbage.
Love?
Joy?
Peace?
Patience?
Kindness?
Gentleness?
Faithfulness?
Goodness?
Self-control?
Against such things there is no law! If we could simply focus on these, would this garbage even be a topic of conversation?
I need to stop before I get on a roll. Bleh. Just bleh!
LikeLike
Toiler,
Excellent point! Perhaps we should be reading books on the fruits of God, the Holy Spirit, instead of the “blame game” written by heretics accompanied by beautiful/deceiving illustrations.
When we share the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ with others, are we to present one type of Gospel to the men, and another version of the Gospel to women? And when some of us share the Gospel with men, and give out Bibles encouraging them to live in a relationship with our Savior, are we thus sinning against our LORD, for those complementarians amongst us believe that women can only minister to other women?
There are times when I cry out, LORD, please bring back that talking donkey to speak some sense into the church.
LikeLike
“Another thing…isn’t THIS just God’s description coming true? Men ARE ruling over us, right? If they can maintain the pulpit, maintain the audio bites, maintain the books, maintain the talking points…then…they can keep the message and maintain the rule. It further illustrates the idea that the fall was descriptive.”
As society moved toward more equality, the more interpretations became twisted and unbalanced. 100 years ago, it wasn’t necessary to preach strict gender roles. It started becoming ridiculous in the 70’s or so in seminaries where George Knight’s (Presbyterian) book became the Bible. From there CBMW.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Daisy, it is chilling what people think is moral.
LikeLike
I am continuously amazed by the behavior on the internet from ‘pastors’ that seems ok as long they are going after someone who disagrees. I read a screed the other day against Jory Micah because someone didn’t like her thesis? It wasn’t polite at all. People who are supposed to be Christian leaders, who are supposed to love others, cannot seem to bear to be even the most basic level of polite to a woman who disagrees with them. Someone who is apparently a bigwig of something Christian (in theory) told her to make a sandwich.
This is the real life application of such theology.
LikeLike
… cannot seem to bear to be even theh most basic level of polite to a woman …
So you do think keeping a reasonable level of control over the sort of language you use is a good thing … 🙂
LikeLike
KAS,
We’re all on the same team here—we’re all trying to follow the footsteps of Christ—trying to build our lives on Scripture. But most of us have been raised in the church to believe that if you can’t say something nice, then you can’t say anything at all.
So its a natural reaction to feel like maybe being Christ-like is being nicer and sweeter until we take a closer look at Christ and see Him violently driving the money changers out of the temple without saying anything nice about them.
Look at how Jesus slammed Simon the Pharisee for trying to control how a woman approached Jesus and how she decided to spend her money. (Luke 7)
Look at Jesus slamming the Pharisees in Matthew 23 without saying one nice thing about them!
There’s too much “keeping a reasonable level of control” in the church over people’s emotional response and not enough understanding of how the Bible commands us to
“Cry out loudly, don’t hold back! Raise your voice like a trumpet. Tell My people their transgression…” Isa 58:1 (HSCB)
If protecting the feelings of Christian book writers ever becomes more important than the future of our children—GOD HELP US!
LikeLike
Kas, trolling much? Whether Lea or Lydia or I make mistakes in our posts; well, so be it. This is not Grammar 101; we’re here for the seriousness of the matters at hand: cruel, evil exploitation of women, of horrible spiritual and even violent abuse that come from a thing called institutionalized “church,” and to share of our pain and to warn others against the atrocious dangers and consequences because we’ve been through it. Some of us have lost much; our marriages, our children, friends, dignity, etc.
I ask again: trolling much? It smells like it.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Can you see the difference between someone claiming to be a spiritual leader and a random person?
Yes, I generally do try to keep control over calling individuals mean names unproved, I will call out people who write books that I think are evil though or people who call women ‘p*nis homes’ and their bff’s.
Getting angry about someone who has hurt another person, such as in cases of abuse, is righteous anger.
LikeLike
That would be ‘unprovoked’. I think my keyboard is sticky.
LikeLike
… cannot seem to bear to be even theh most basic level of polite to a woman …
So you do think keeping a reasonable level of control over the sort of language you use is a good thing … 🙂”
When social media first boomed I was stunned at how arrogant and insulting pastor bloggers were. There was an entitlement mentality I though was reserved for the mega personalities in private. (Not their stage personas) I was stunned at how illogical, self absorbed and hateful they can be. Who knew? Social media has done us a favor in this regard.
These arrogant entitled pastor bloggers freaked out at any dissent or pushback to their views or teaching. They simply had no experience. No real world experience, at least. Seminaries are indoctrination centers for the most part and they are taught to “manage people” from that aspect. Most of them were bullies and it became kind of fun to watch their heads explode. They needed to grow up. One of the most bizarre, the “slaves were happy” Doug Wilson would demand the name of a commenters pastor so he could call them and tell them to place the commenter in church discipline! I had no idea this world existed. Seriously? Then the YRR who used social media to bloom soon saw it used against their nefarious stealth tactics. Poor guys were so indoctrinated, outside the seminary bubble they could not hold their own so they resorted to ad homenim. It’s all they knew! They would often pull a KAS trying to deflect from the issue or debate. According to their rules there is no nice enough way to say Mahaney protected pedophiles. And they do fancy themselves the arbiters of such things.
Handling bullies with kid gloves is just enabling them.
LikeLike
Yeah. Sometimes you have to call them like you see them.
I know you don’t love Todd Pruitt, but he has a decent article right now about someone who thought the ESS disagreement should have been more gentlemanly and behind closed doors. He quotes Gruden accusing others of heresy years ago and talks about how, because the debate WAS public, some have gotten wise to it and starting going through their women’s ministry materials to throw them out. Same with Kathi pointing out this stuff in childrens material. If you do this behind closed doors, that doesn’t help correct errors.
LikeLike
“I know you don’t love Todd Pruitt, but he has a decent article right now about someone who thought the ESS disagreement should have been more gentlemanly and behind closed doors. He quotes Gruden accusing others of heresy years ago and talks about how, because the debate WAS public, some have gotten wise to it and starting going through their women’s ministry materials to throw them out. Same with Kathi pointing out this stuff in childrens material. If you do this behind closed doors, that doesn’t help correct errors.”
He is absolutely right. They want it behind closed doors because this is about managing their brand. They want to control the message. I have a problem with Trueman not coming clean on Mahaney and Pruitt calling people slanderers who brought up the facts. They want the Truman deal with Mahaney behind closed doors.
If there is one thing I learned from my mega consulting days is that it does not pay to blanket defend celebrity pastors, spiritual gurus, churches or denominations.
Jesus Christ? Absolutely! He never fails or misuses us.
LikeLike
“Owen Strachan and someone from Bethlehem Baptist whom I can no longer find both gave the book good reviews. I haven’t read it, but it can’t be all bad, surely.” – KAS
I read the book after Kathi’s first article about it here. I found the book appalling. They teach another Gospel in that book.
A children’s book about the real Gospel…now that would have been a sweet book.
But alas that is not the book that was written.
LikeLike
KAS, if there is anything positive in this book (nice illustrations?) I see it as a negative because anything that entices someone to put this rot into their childrens’ minds is bad.
A little disclaimer that men shouldn’t be domineering will not be enough to put the breaks on the demon they are unleashing.
I also think that children, especially daughters, who grow up thinking this is what Christ is all about (it isn’t) are likely to throw out faith and Christianity along with complementarianism once they get old enough to want out of the prison.
LikeLike
The bit about polite language was just a little self-deprecating humour, as I have pratted on about this more than once.
Although the blindness to what I am getting at on this score appears to be continuing!
LikeLike
“And I completely stand by that one, KAS. What are we supposed to praise the drawings when the words are wrong? Come on.
If you think it’s so great, tell us why.”
Amen, Lea!
I’ve heard that Playboy and Penthouse have some of the best photographers in the business, but that doesn’t make what they do right!
LikeLiked by 1 person
“Although the blindness to what I am getting at on this score appears to be continuing!”
You have gone in circles on this. So now, We are blind and can’t understand what you see as your reasoned brilliance?
Now you seem to be implying one has to include praise when analyzing something they view as evil, false teaching for children. Kinda creepy. Like a Dale Carnegie positive criticism sandwich for false teaching.
You have just about tried every worn out Fundy shaming tactic there is and they still aren’t working. You must enjoy our company or the attention? :o)
LikeLiked by 1 person
On another note, the same church that produced this “another Gospel” book for children is going to be excommunicating a godly wife and mother for leaving her abusive husband of many decades.
Besides praying for her and her children, after this “final slap in the face” her “church”/”cult” is delivering to her, order some soap or a body product from her very nice business that she has to support herself and her children.
http://www.applevalleynaturalsoap.com/
Her name is Natalie.
http://www.applevalleynaturalsoap.com/
http://www.applevalleynaturalsoap.com/apple-valley-natural-soap/
Read her blog Visionary Womanhood that addresses these serious topics in a much more realistic and Biblical way.
http://visionarywomanhood.com/author/visionarywomanhood/
LikeLike
Frankly, I’m surprised we haven’t been called “swine” here yet by those who believe they are from an upper intelligence caste system.
When the pseudo theologians deem themselves not in control of others’ beliefs through systematic speech/debate, the phrases “blind and casting my pearls before swine” is usually the verbal outcome.
I call it “farm theology” for this one have been called “swine” a number of times when I don’t follow the dumb sheep religion. Keep in mind here, Dad had to give those precious sheep shots to prevent them from overeating, thus leading to their death….interesting mentality/instinct on the part of sheep, eh?
Did not Jesus call out the “blind guides” of His day? Seems to me it’s in the Good Book.
It seems as though, the one who proclaims to be pious, is subtle in calling the rest on this blog ‘names.’
Be wise as serpents, and gentle as doves.
LikeLike
And you are correct Velour, another gospel and another jesus always, always, always points to man and his superiority, while God, the Holy Spirit, who indwells in His temples (the physical body of every born again believer in Jesus Christ) always, always, always leads us to Jesus and His Teachings and His Ways.
Our Holy Scriptures tell us so!
Appreciate your insight Velour.
LikeLiked by 1 person