Complementarian CBMW Owen Strachan, John MacArthur, John Piper, Grant Castleberry, Albert Mohler, Gavin Peacock
The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood is holding their conference, “The Beauty of Complementarity” in Complementarity Capital of the World, Louisville.
The nice thing about live tweeting is that I don’t have to research, it’s coming hot off the press by following the hashtag #CBMW16. They seem to like and tweet a lot of the “cool” phrases their hero leaders say. But a lot of it is not Biblical! It’s pushing their complementarianism (that word is really too long) agenda, which to them says that if you do not believe in husband authority and wife submission in the marriage, they will question whether you really believe the Gospel. Dude, are you really saved?
It’s important to note that CJ Mahaney is speaking at this event despite the fact that there is an ongoing court case regarding the cover up of sexual abuse cases. Also in attendance is John MacArthur. It surprises me that he is sharing a platform with CJ, not only for this reason, but also because MacArthur is rabidly against anything Charismatic. CJ Mahaney has identified as Reformed Charismatic.
Here are some of the notable tweets. I’ll add more at the bottom as time permits.
Here are the books that were handed out:
https://twitter.com/Zhop59/status/719602851849375745
Spiritual Sounding Board 
Ugh! This stuff makes my blood boil. You know, I’m getting closer and closer to getting on Twitter, Julie Anne! Apparently I still need to hear the gospel and I can give my testimony about my journey in two years.
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My testimony would be: My Journey from Snarky Smart Ass to Complimentary Bliss Filled, #Blessed Gospel Centeredness
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Kathi – You must know how to spell the word: complEmentary if you’re going to be tweeting, ya know. haha
Did you see “sanctified testosterone” above? I’ve been having fun with that on Twitter. I can’t even . . . .
I’ve also come out to say that the new comp catch word is “robust.” Winsome is gone, dead. Robust is the word they are using.
Also, I’ve birthed the #compcoolaid for today and future reference. These hashtags are important, ya know?
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Julie Anne,
Is it okay to share here what was said on twitter? If not just delete this. I died laughing at this exchange our hostess, Julie Anne’s question was awesome. What is wrong with these boymen?
Bob Lepine @FLTBob
Churches need to understand and embrace “sanctified testosterone”
Julie Anne @DefendTheSheep 1h1 hour ago
Julie Anne Retweeted Bob Lepine
I understand this, but I’m a bit puzzled how to do this. How does one embrace sanctified testosterone? #CBMW16Julie Anne added,
@jasonkeithallen #ActLikeMen #CBMW16
Morgan Guyton @MAGuyton 1h1 hour ago
@DefendTheSheep @FLTBob @jasonkeithallen Sounds like a group activity.
Andrew @caldwa 1h1 hour ago
@MAGuyton @DefendTheSheep @FLTBob @jasonkeithallen What is even going on over at #cbmw16…this is getting out of hand
Angie Sanderson @AngieKSanderson 1h1 hour ago
@caldwa @MAGuyton @DefendTheSheep @FLTBob @jasonkeithallen 1st Strachan says testosterone was on display on the cross, now this.
Morgan Guyton @MAGuyton 1h1 hour ago
@AngieKSanderson @caldwa @DefendTheSheep @FLTBob @jasonkeithallen Cross + testosterone = kinky
Julie Anne @DefendTheSheep 55m55 minutes ago
.@MAGuyton @AngieKSanderson @caldwa @FLTBob @jasonkeithallen Seriously, tho, why are they talking about TESTOSTERONE?????
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Apparently the women’s testimonies of their journeys didn’t make the cut for learning any spiritual truth:
http://cbmw.org/topics/news-and-announcements/cbmw-pre-conference-day-one-summaries/
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Oh, that blessed “E!”
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The trinity is an expression of complementarianism? Really? So do Jesus and Holy Spirit submit to Father like two wives to their polygamist husband? If they are one with Father, He in them and them in Him as John 17 suggests, then they aren’t in a authoritarian/submission relationship. They are in an interwoven, alive and dynamic moving together expression of One; Mutually supportive, respectful and not working out of an an established hierarchy. Jesus stated that he responded to Father’s voice when in flesh because of the human dynamic of separation. But didn’t Father equally respond to Jesus when Jesus prayed to heal the sick, calm the seas and comfort the hopeless? This tweet is such a stretch!
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Kathi posted the schedule of events on SSB FB page. Here it is:
Today’s Conference Line-up and Times:
12:10pm Grant Castleberry Complementarity and the Honor of God
12:25pm Jason Allen Complementarity and the Disappearance of Men
12:40pm Thomas White Complementarity and the Call to Purity
12:55pm Gavin Peacock Complementarity and the Beauty of Submission
1:10pm Jackie Hill-Perry Testimony: My Journey Out of Lesbianism to Complementarianism
1:20pm Michael Kruger Complementarity and its Impact in the Greco-Roman World
1:35pm Trillia Newbell Testimony: My Journey Out of Feminism
1:45pm Break 1
2:10pm Miguel Nuñez The Spiritual Power of Unashamed Preaching
2:30pm Sam Allberry The Formative Power of the Image of God
2:45pm Courtney Reissig Testimony: My Journey Into Complementarity
2:55pm Danny Akin The Evangelistic Power of a Christian Family
3:10pm H.B. Charles Jr. The Spiritual Power of a Godly Man
3:25pm Owen Strachan The Goodness and Truthfulness of Complementarity
3:45pm Break 2
4:05pm Albert Mohler The Doxological Power of Christian Witness
4:35pm J. Ligon Duncan Complementarity as Covenant Promise
4:55pm Kevin DeYoung Redemption Through Motherhood: Why Caring for Children is Caring for the World
5:15pm John Piper Marriage Lived to the Glory of God
5:50pm John MacArthur Children in the Shade
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Who needs Jesus when complementarianism can save you?
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I can’t wait to see what’s on board for tomorrow!
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I searched for Jesus’ name in the following link; it is not mentioned. That says it all.
http://cbmw.org/topics/news-and-announcements/cbmw-pre-conference-day-one-summaries/
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I threw up in my mouth a little reading all those tweets. urp
Except for the one about “Smashing the patriarchy is my cardio,” that was a classic.
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I was honestly shocked that Owen Strachan thought he owned the #CBMW16 hashtag. Hasn’t he read about hashtag campaigns gone awry? Twitter is pretty much a public space. And then there were the people who called us responding on the #CBMW16 hashtag “trolls.” It’s not trolling to point out the harmful and dangerous aspects of comp (not a word, they should just use patriarchy) belief.
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I can’t believe people are willing to sit in a room all day listening to this nonsense. Do they have really good snacks or something?
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I guess I’m a little confused. Maybe some excessively patriarchal stuff will be taught at this conference, but I do not agree that complementary roles should be rejected entirely. Am I missing something?
Even having survived a marriage to a “Christian” abuser, I still believe in the concept of complementary marriage roles as found in Scripture, not as defined by the legalists – or the naysayers. Leadership/headship is a beautiful thing as is godly submission as they operate in tandem.
My husband lives out the role of a godly shepherd in our household. He leads, protects and provides for all in this household. He is not a brute or a bully but a natural care-taker and a leader. He has never demanded that I submit to him, nor would he need to. I trust him with all that I am. Together we make a great team. I appreciate him as a man; he appreciates me as a woman. Believe it or not, we have a happy, balanced, complementary marriage.
Maybe we’re two of the lucky ones. It just seems kind of sad that so many have come to a place where (conference speakers notwithstanding) the concept of a complementary marital relationship is automatically presumed to be a terrible thing.
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Dear Cindy,
My own perspective is: The concept of enforced and rigid gender roles (whether in marriage or elsewhere) is not taught in the Bible, and is a completely unnecessary complication to human relationships.
The beautiful relationship that you and your husband share works well within the complementarian framework, as you say. But I think it could work just as well outside of it, without introducing any notion of “headship” or one-sided “submission”. It would likely be enough that you love and respect each other, and have earned each other’s trust. To me, that’s much more important than trying to impose some kind of hierarchy.
My main complaint with the CBMW is that they’re taking what is at best a secondary issue, and making it of primary importance. So important, in fact, that they feel obliged to organize a biennial conference about it (where, perhaps not incidentally, they can make “a big fat pile of money”). They’re saying, “All true Christians must believe this about marriage”, when other interpretations are possible. It’s the CBMW that’s picking this fight, and going so far as to claim that their philosophy is more pro-woman and anti-abuse than any other in the world. But the track record of complementarian leaders and churches tells the opposite tale.
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I wonder if they know that both sexes have both testosterone and estrogen.
Also, the teachings seem to be a form of meme spinning to see what might stick and go viral.
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Some of the bullet points made at the CBMW Pre-Conference lead me to ask: Do these folks believe in the Eternal Submission of the Son?
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“Sanctified testosterone”!? Just when you think you’ve heard it all, here comes another way to idolize men and the phallus. Wait…didn’t the pagans do a lot of that?
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Darlene: It’s in Grudem’s Systematic Theology and that book has sold something like 400,000 copies, so yeah, I’d say yes, they do believe in the Eternal Submission of the Son. That’s the only way they can justify the husband/male over wife/female subordinationism going on.
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“Submission is seen in the Trinity”? Here we go. They promote ESS in order to sell comp doctrine as the gospel. This means Jesus Christ is a “lessor” god. Yes, small g.
Sicko. Stuff. They lap it up.
Anyone notice they changed the word to “complimentarity”. Is this part of rebranding…turning it into a verb?
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“Some of the bullet points made at the CBMW Pre-Conference lead me to ask: Do these folks believe in the Eternal Submission of the Son?”
Oh my yes. In spades. It is a horror what they do to our Lord to sell their authoritarianism. Mirele is right about Grudems ST. It has been treated as equal to scripture.
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Wow! and Ugh! that stuff is unbelievable. Just pass the barf bags, someone. Please.
My husband doesn’t want a slave, or a robot, or a doormat, or a concubine. He wants a best friend, companion, and partner. He married me knowing I’m a strong woman and “bossy.” These comp guys are not secure in their manhood — that’s why they can’t stand a strong woman.
On a more serious note, these comp folks have totally pirated and sabotaged the idea of “servant leadership.”
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About the young fellow who took the fussy baby out so his wife could hear the conference speaker. Of course he wants wifey to hear about how to be a good little doormat. Ugh.
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“The trinity is an expression of complementarianism? Really? So do Jesus and Holy Spirit submit to Father like two wives to their polygamist husband? ”
Maryl, I have been asking them for years exactly which one the Holy Spirit submits to. No one from that seminary educated tribe can tell me. I mean –a pecking order is a pecking order, right? If Jesus submits to Yahweh eternity past and future, the Holy Spirit must submit to one or the other even if it blows where it wills. :o)
I did a ton of research on ESS years ago because it is all over the place now. They trotted this Arian heresy out of moth balls to prop up comp doctrine mapping it to the Trinity with one proof text! It is amazing what folks believe. They take the incarnation of God in the Flesh and map it to eternity past and future.
I usually mention John 5 and the Hebrew understanding of doing business with the son. The son is considered equal! Even the Pharisees got this and wanted to kill Him for it.
The ESS angle really makes me angry. So many led astray to believe our Savior is really just a lessor god.
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Sounds like hell on earth. I think the proper hashtag should be #stepfordwives.
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‘I guess I’m a little confused. Maybe some excessively patriarchal stuff will be taught at this conference, but I do not agree that complementary roles should be rejected entirely. Am I missing something?”
First of all, there are no “roles” except in show biz. We are not “acting” out our lives. Leave off that word and try to explain it sometime. :o)
It is easy to fall into the trap of language without really thinking through the meaning.
There is no pink and blue Christianity. Our lives as believers transcends the plumbing we received at birth. And besides, one day you may be changing the Depends of your protector. :o)
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“Maybe we’re two of the lucky ones. It just seems kind of sad that so many have come to a place where (conference speakers notwithstanding) the concept of a complementary marital relationship is automatically presumed to be a terrible thing.”
It is unnecessary. It is not the Gospel. It is not in the Trinity. And….it is not complementary.
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“Sounds like hell on earth. I think the proper hashtag should be #”
Yeah, Eight thousand of these entitled perfumed princes are in my city “protesting” something but I cannot figure out what it is!
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Rhondajeannie, you are right. Not one mention of Jesus. But again, I think we know where these folks stand when it comes to the words of Jesus – the Gospels. We hear all kinds of gospelly talk from them, “gospel centered” this and that, but odd that there’s no mention of Jesus Christ on that link. Remember for the Neo-Cals, Calvinism is the gospel.
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I think of that verse, “You search the Scriptures because in them you think you have eternal life. But they testify about me!”
I just spent the weekend with a bunch of different flavoured believers.
I came away with this sense that they kept going on and on about “The Bible says this…”
I kept trying to bring them back to Jesus.
It’s becoming more and more apparent to me that modern day Christianity is more about The WORRRRD of God (Bible is their Word) than The Word that was in the beginning and was with God and was God.
I’m quietly thinking that there is really only One Word in the Bible.
and it isn’t a stapled together bunch of papers.
But that’s just me.
I cannot think of anything more cringeworthy than a bunch of these types getting together to glory over their manliness.
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Cindy, I was thinking the same thing before I read your comment, so I was interested to read the responses. I would never call myself a complementarian, and neither would my husband. We’ve never had a discussion about submission, authority of anything related to it. When we face major decisions and have a difference of opinion on what to do, I explain my position and a lot of the time he agrees with me after hearing my thoughts. However, there have been a few cases in our 17 years of marriage where we do not agree. In these instances, I have chosen to “submit” to his decision. Without fail, as things proceeded, I have been thankful for his decision.
I get why complementarianism is considered dangerous, but I’m not ashamed that I defer to my husband in cases where we do not agree.
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Non comps defer to each other all the time depending on the issue, who has the most expertise in that area, etc.
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I grew up thinking that ‘submission’ thing was sort of like this, every once in a great while you disagree and maybe defer. I could see this being ok, if I didn’t feel strongly about something but I think it would be better to come out of love and respect that because john piper thinks I should.
My problem is that that is NOT what these guys are teaching now. The stuff they say now sounds crazy to me. Be sweet about turning down group sex? Try to give a stranger directions in a way that doesn’t subvert his authority??? Where is that in the bible? These people are crazy town now. I think anybody whose main focus after reading the bible is in how much authority they should have over you is a person who you should run from. That’s not God.
Also I’m not married so most of this is completely useless to me, except those people who think I should be submitting to every man around.
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To be frankly honest here, theologically, I have never read the words complementarian nor egalitarian in our Holy Scriptures. They are not there, at all. And the idea of putting men and women into gender boxes reminds me of the Christianese phrase that is popular amongst charismatics, “Well ya know, don’t put god in a box!”
The concept of submission has been a huge, no, gigantic topic within what appears as Christianity in this day and age. Apparently, religious leaders are running scared, and afraid of not receiving that next paycheck from believers who choose not to read, study and meditate upon the Holy Scriptures for themselves. Faithfully growing up in the Christian church, we never, ever heard of this complementarianism or egalitarianism concept years ago. It wasn’t preached on the pulpit and the so called Christian(?) conference profiteers had not made its grand entrance into the American religious system. As a child, if there was a job to be done, whether man or woman, we all pitched in to get the job done, it did not matter if one was labeled a ‘complimentarian’ or an ‘egalitarian.’
Jesus was neither a complementarian, nor an egalitarian. Nor was He a republican nor a democrat. Mankind, in our tiny, know it all pea brained minds, love to add our own agendas to the Scriptures and see ourselves as wiser than the next person. Oh, what fools are we. Let’s pin the tail on the donkey, let’s pin the label on Jesus and use and abuse His Holy Name for our own agendas in building our own little kingdoms that center around our own concepts of Christianity; does not God, the Holy Spirit live inside of both men and women when we become born again? Or am I missing something here, growing up in Christ Jesus, and not the ways of comp or egal?
And also, growing up in the Christian church, the word “leadership” was not even mentioned as a part of the ministry of our assembly. We were never told that we were to be great leaders, that we were destined for greatness, that we would become little gods. We were instructed as Jesus taught, that those who are least in this earthly world would be the greatest in His Kingdom to come, and those who are first in this world, will be last in His Kingdom to come.
And the true Gospel of Jesus, the Christ, never ever mentions gender roles where there are separate hierarchies at the foot of the Cross. Never, ever. And at the end of the day, when looking back to Adam and Eve, I often wonder if they had to work hard, together, in growing food and tending the flocks in putting food on the table for their family, after the fall of course. Or did our Great and Glorious Creator God sit them down and explain the roles of complementarianism verses egalitarianism? Hmmm.
Another simple question, how many bucks did the attendees have to fork out to attend this speak for profit conference? And how much mammon did the speakers make speaking from their lofty stages? I am reminded of Jesus, His disciples and true Apostles……how they ministered because they loved their Master……Jesus.
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Katy, I am right with you on this. I took a long break from church, and never could settle on one. Now I feel like church has gotten to be very strange in the last ten (15?) years, particularly the Baptist/non-denom arena where I was previously trying out places, and maybe that’s why I couldn’t settle. I have completely changed denominations now and I feel happier about it. As to this:
Every time I hear these people talking about being ‘servant leaders’ I think of that little kids song “make me a servant, humble and meek, lord let me lift up, those who are weak”. Do they even still talk about being humble, meek or lifting up the weak any more?
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Lydia, sweet, sweet song, yes indeed! And that would be a resounding NO in answer to your question concerning humility. In fact, the concept/attitude/actions of humility are but a stranger in this present leadership, all about me, me, me, and more of me culture. Humility is mocked, castigated, criticized and condemned not only by all of those nasty ‘unbelievers’ out there, but tragically, by most proclaim to be Christians attending ‘the church’ each and every Sunday.
Sat in a Baptist church for years, listening to the Praise and Blessing testimonies and not one, no, not one soul spoke the Name of Jesus as the author and finisher of their ‘blessing,’ nor did they give Him all of the praise, honor, and glory that was His to begin with. These speeches became more and more like “I’m one of the King’s kids and I deserve everything that I have and look, everyone, see how great I am!” Applause, applause.
And one thing that I have noticed since leaving this Baptist church system, is how incredibly vengeful these so called christians have become. All of those ‘hugs,’ all of that ‘love bombing’ by the ‘leadership’ that took place within the first few years, and all of that ‘flattery’ about how great our family is, has faded away because I left their ‘covering,’ their ‘spiritual mothering,’ and their promotion of ‘celebrity preachers and teachers’ and their false accusations that I am ‘backsliding,’ because I choose to follow Jesus and not men and women who love to lord it over us folks.
All of that fake ‘love bombing’ has digressed into revenge blasts. How can this be? Perhaps this is evidence that we have been deceived into believing that each and every one of us is to become a ‘great leader in our own eyes.’
And Jesus humbly went to the cross for us……….amazing.
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Oopsy daisy…..I meant to address you, Lea. I’m sorry for my mix up, no excuses.
Your comment was valuable here. Blessings to you today!
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One last pondering thought here before I fly off my nest here to entertain my work day is this:
What ever happened to ministering to one another as the early assembly/ekklesia/called out ones did? Can we not minister to one another in humility and love, with genuine fruits of God, the Holy Spirit, without holding some form of leadership title or degree attached to our name? Why is it that ‘leaders’ in our churches think they are the only ones that do the ministering and are offended when we open up our homes, invite people to come, sharing our food and gifts with one another, and actually ministering to one another on the same level? A place where burdens are shared, sins are confessed, and prayers in the Name of Jesus are said by His followers?
Why is it that pastors and their wives get ‘offended’ when we, the Body of Christ, minister to one another without them and their “leadership network (code words for their ‘yes men and women minions?’)”
Perhaps it is because man says “This is my church and no one can minister unless you are a complimentary leader” instead of being the Body of Jesus Christ, whose Cornerstone was and is Christ.
I personally have been more than blessed by this and a few other websites where people of no reputation minister to one another in love and exhortation and who clearly know and follow the One True Shepherd, Jesus.
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@Loura:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priapus
And I vaguely remember reading some 20 years ago about a form of sacred masturbation in some sort of ascetic Hinduism.
And according to a comment thread at Wartburg Watch, the CBMW fanboys (all male) are really burning up the Twitter feeds. Such Twittering about “Churches of sacred testosterone” and “Church is being a cork of testosterone floating in an ocean of estrogen”. (Why do you think they call them Twits?)
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@LifeWithPorpoise:
Recite the Koran.
Like the entrance exam for the Saudi or Talibani Religious Police.
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@JA:
Buzzword du jour.
Kind of like “Rugged(TM)” in Seventies-era Guns & Ammo and Soldier of Fortune.
ChEKA changes its name to OGPU which changes its name to NKVD which changes its name to KGB but the liquidation quotas in GULAG keep being filled without any interruption.
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Sanctified testosterone??? Seriously? As the mother of teenage boys, there are days that testosterone seems to be oozing from the very walls of my house, but “sanctified” is not a descriptor that would ever come to mind.
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This is not the first time these guys have tweeted about testosterone. Owen Strachan is a leader at CBMW and tweeted this a while back:
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Don’t do the tweet thing yet, but correct me if I am wrong. Doesn’t satan actually hate all of mankind for we are all created in God’s image? And doesn’t satan especially hate born again believers because we have the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, living inside of us?
Who is this Owen Strachan guy for I have never heart of him before.
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Thanks! You too.
Julie, 2 things. First, Owen Strachan sounds so much like an old man name that I was a bit shocked to see his picture. Second, Owen apparently doesn’t understand that women have testosterone. Third (whoops) What on earth is he even talking about there? My bible says nothing about Satan being crushed by testosterone!!! I can’t even with these people.
Owen, darling? The meek shall inherit the earth. Think about it.
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Lea – Owen is president of CBMW.
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Oh! No wonder he’s ridiculous.
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Julie Anne,
Owen’s tweet is quite anti-biblical.
Here is part of the curse against the serpent (i.e. Satan) as recorded in Genesis.
Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall [d]bruise you on the head,
And you shall bruise him on the heel.”
Satan hates the woman (estrogen anyone?) and her seed (Jesus Christ)
Testosterone plays no part in this.
Yes, Owen is too young, too wet behind the ears, and to biblically illiterate to be the head of a major organization like this. At least an organization that claims to be biblical and even has the term ‘biblical’ even in it’s title.
But let us get to the root of the matter.
The CBMW, itself, is anti-biblical.
As HUG might say, war is peace, love is hate etc.
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I’d like to share something interesting regarding Kevin DeYoung, who is speaking at this conference. He is the Senior Pastor at University Reformed Church (URC) in East Lansing Michigan.
A few years ago I was visiting that area and decided to check out what his church was like (this was a year or so before 2013). I attended the Good Friday service. The service was hosted by DeYoung and URC, and was combined with attendance from several other area churches. DeYoung preached, but also shared his pulpit with the other invited pastors, including one ordained WOMAN pastor who spoke and read scripture to the assembly on an equal basis with the other male pastors. I was there and saw it in person. Interesting in light of his new-found complementarianism.
p.s. I can’t stop laughing at the session called “Complementarity and the Disappearance of Men”…. I keep seeing the faces of all these big reformed guys on milk cartons….”Have You Seen Me?” LOL.
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Check this out.
http://www.missioalliance.org/beyond-egalitarianism-and-complementarianism-the-kingdom-call-for-women-in-ministry/
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Thank you, Irene. I just tweeted and posted it on the SSB FB page. I’m so tired of this stuff. It’s such a distraction.
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Oh, that’s great, Song of Joy. Thanks for sharing!
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“12:25pm Jason Allen Complementarity and the Disappearance of Men”
There’s more than a few I’d like to see disappear.
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Katy, love your comments. You get it.
Love is now defined as submission. (Exactly how Islamic are they going to go? )
Servant is now leader.
Relationships are now roles
Arrogance and power are now humility.
We have an Orwellian problem. Concepts and words are being redefined and people go right along.
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Mara has it right! The evil one hates women because the promised Savior would come through a woman. We can see this right away in Genesis in how Patriarchy emerged and ruled.
It gave me shivers when I read Owens tweet on this. They are so ignorant and frankly it scares me for them. But right now, I am more concerned for the victims of their systems.
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“Yes, Owen is too young, too wet behind the ears, and to biblically illiterate to be the head of a major organization like this. At least an organization that claims to be biblical and even has the term ‘biblical’ even in it’s title.”
Mara, I know you know this but others might not. Owen is Bruce wares son in law. Bruce Ware is a prof at SBTS and big promoter of ESS with books and sermons. A few years back he preached a sermon at Denton Bible Church in Texas stating that unsubmissive wives trigger abuse in husbands. The blogosphere literally blew up. The comp/pats were trying to interpret him for us because it was not going over well.
Anyway, Ware has been the go to guy for ESS outside of Grudem.
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I am loving the comments!
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@Katy:
And the Universe Cannot Have Two Centers.
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I am soooooooooooo glad I am not there! And that I can laugh at all this misguided foolishness! I feel so free!
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Have you noticed that comp tries to take credit for any just normal humanity that occurs? as if it was somehow necessary for it?
A husband took a fussy baby out so his wife could listen. That has nothing to do with complementarity. It had to do with a considerate husband. Guess what, there are plenty of those outside of Christianity altogether. SHEESH.
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Perhaps it happens so rarely with them as opposed to the wider world they felt the need to highlight it?
which is not a recommendation of their theory!
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“A husband took a fussy baby out so his wife could listen. That has nothing to do with complementarity. ”
It kind of makes you wonder what they are really like if they have to praise a guy for such and teach it? Do they want praise for taking out the garbage, too?
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CBMW @CBMWorg · 3h3 hours ago
“In submission to her husband, it is a picture of the gospel and the church’s relationship with the King.” -@Moorepreaching #CBMW16
First I just have to…lolololololol.
Submission of a wife to her husband pictures 1) the gospel and 2) the church’s relationship with Jesus? The gospel is Jesus coming to die for sinners and rising again on the 3rd day…so who depicts Jesus in this tweet-the husband or the wife?
If it’s the wife being Jesus, then she can’t be the church also. If it’s the husband being Jesus, then it isn’t submission that’s being “a picture” because the wives are doing the submitting.
I have to judge this an anti-winsome and robustless tweet.
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Update~~
CBMW @CBMWorg · 4h4 hours ago
“When we see wives submitting to husbands, it reminds us that Christ has done the work as the overseer of our soul.” -@Moorepreaching
So wives are Jesus! But…then…how can they be the church too?
Go home, @Moore
, You’re drunk.
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Lydia00-“First of all, there are no “roles” except in show biz. We are not “acting” out our lives. Leave off that word and try to explain it sometime. :o)”
Awww…but herein lies the beautiful complementarity of CBMW/CalviMenism because all we really are doing in this earthly play in Calvin’s theology is acting out our cosmic roles. Egalitarians cannot possibly be predestined to heaven because their inability to grasp the beauty of CBMW’s interpretation of the script proves it. Egalitarians’ predestined role then is to persecute complementarians so they can act out their suffering role for the glory of God.
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Role playing is exactly what these men are doing.
They’re using 2000 year old letter to saints in order to justify their lording over others.
What Lydia said, “Katy gets it”.
I thought the exact same thing.
“Kevin de Young’s church”
Can anyone point me to ONE passage in the New Testament where anyone EXCEPT Jesus Christ owns or is building the ONE FOLD Jesus said HE would build?
Let me know.
Why does this not bother believers?
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lifewithporpoise, It’s becoming more and more apparent to me that modern day Christianity is more about The WORRRRD of God (Bible is their Word) than The Word that was in the beginning and was with God and was God.
Yes! And yet when you separate the two, the written word loses its meaning and purpose.
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lifewithporpoise, it’s not so much that it bothers me as that I scoff at it as BS. I honestly think that there is so little going on in the organized church that has anything to do with spiritual reality!
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Most of what I saw in their tweets is comp doctrine = gospel. Sometimes it even seemed more like comp doctrine > gospel, because if you’re not comp the gospel apparently can’t be yours according to some of those patriarchists.
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If I ever meet any of these incomprehensible nitwits in person, I simply don’t know how I will restrain myself from kicking them in the teeth, for the good of humanity. Who would’ve ever believed that modern “Christianity” would come to mean anything but Christ?
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Right, which is why I say they are all drunk on #compcoolaid. This is so wrong. And then what singles? It’s as if they don’t exist!!!!!
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Shy1- regarding the fussy baby – as if he was rescuing his wife. @@. Duh, he’s the dad. Step up to the plate, testosterone and all, and take care of YOUR baby.
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Diane, I tried to figure out that comp metaphor mapping trick for years. It really goes off the rails when men are included as brides. :o)
And sometimes women are the church and sometimes they are the lessor Jesus who submits to the Sovereign and all powerful God in the Trinity mapping metaphor.
Talk about misunderstanding a metaphor and taking it waaaaay tooooo far. Sheesh!
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Patti, haha!
I am dead serious about the word “role”, though. When that word is not available to describe this ridiculous doctrine, a realization takes place. I encourage all comps to never use “role”. See what happens.
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“Egalitarians cannot possibly be predestined to heaven because their inability to grasp the beauty of CBMW’s interpretation of the script proves it. Egalitarians’ predestined role then is to persecute complementarians so they can act out their suffering role for the glory of God.”
Oh and don’t forget that egalitarians couples are competing for power. That one is my fav because it says so much more about comps than Egals! That is why I refer to it as mutuality. Submitting to one another as the real spirit of Eph –outside the 1st century where that was beyond radical and in legal territory.
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Masculinity and femininity were meant to be complementary. Complementary does not imply that one is lesser and one is greater, just uniquely different, understanding mutual strengths and weaknesses, and our inherent natures.
There seem to be a lot of hostile people on here who do not see the beauty and balance of the Ephesians 5 model. There is no competition for power in it. It’s sad that many do not see that.
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These people are control freaks. They cannot fathom the concept of grown ups having a conversation and no one being in charge. It’s not just marriages…they feel the same about church.
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Cindy, when you look at the tweets, do you not see that one is most definitely lesser and the other is greater? I completely get what you are saying, but what I see in action is a competition for power – using words like testosterone, etc. It’s sad that they don’t see it.
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When you take the word gospel out of its context like these folks do, it becomes the Be All End All. So it is that they go gospelling around on the internet and in their churches and conferences, marching in lock step with one another. They have become comrades in arms fighting for Complementarianism and foisting their verbal weapons at the enemy who are all those that believe differently. They have taken the word gospel and made it a gerund, adverb, and adjective, virtually sucking the life out of its meaning. So it is no surprise when they make statements to the effect that the gospel equals complementarianism and visa versa. Theirs is a sexist gospel, in which one can only know the the gospel if one is a Comp. All others are traitors in their minds. Hence, they have elevated their teaching of marriage on equal footing with the gospel. Soon, no doubt, they will be excommunicating husbands and wives in their churches who do not mirror what their standards of Comp. marriage. Can you see it? Husbands and wives being publicly shamed for not ascribing to their version of Biblical Gender Roles. Coming to a Neo-Cal church near you.
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It shouldn’t. But to a certain group it seem to. They are the ‘leaders’, not only in marriages but in church, the family, the wider world. And testosterone killed Satan! I mean, that’s not the same thing is it? if they hadn’t pushed it too far and made it so very important maybe they wouldn’t have lost me.
But people in general can compliment each other. That’s fine and good. These people are far too rigid in what they think manhood and womanhood are. People are quite varied, they should be figuring out where individual strengths and weaknesses are, without so much ‘help’ from total strangers.
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“Masculinity and femininity were meant to be complementary. Complementary does not imply that one is lesser and one is greater, just uniquely different, understanding mutual strengths and weaknesses, and our inherent natures.”
There are male and female biological functions. Not sure what you mean by “masculinity or feminity” beyond that but it seems you are implying something beyond our respective biological functions. That is where it gets tricky.
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“There seem to be a lot of hostile people on here who do not see the beauty and balance of the Ephesians 5 model. There is no competition for power in it. It’s sad that many do not see that.”
You say hostile, I say arrogant. You sound like the typical seeker mega comp wife to me talking down to the ignorant who don’t know what comp is. Maybe bad experience or something.
I used to facilitate comp speakers and conferences in the 90’s. It was a huge money maker. I have heard it all and done quite a bit of study from both sides. It is the biggest phoney movement around.
.
How you operate in your marriage is your business and visa versa. But when you guys start selling it as Gods way, I am going to take it on. And I ceased caring if people think I am mean. What comps sell is a lie about our Lord. .
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Hi Lifewithporpoise, I think you were responding to my post when you said:
“ “Kevin de Young’s church” Can anyone point me to ONE passage in the New Testament where anyone EXCEPT Jesus Christ owns or is building the ONE FOLD Jesus said HE would build? Let me know. Why does this not bother believers?”
What I said was that he was the senior pastor there and that “I was visiting that area and decided to check out what his church was like”.
I only meant it like if I said I’d like to visit your church, or if I asked you if you’d like to visit my church. That’s all I meant….I would never say that a church belonged to a pastor. I hope that clears up my intention there. 🙂
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“There seem to be a lot of hostile people on here who do not see the beauty and balance of the Ephesians 5 model. There is no competition for power in it. It’s sad that many do not see that.”
Cindy, you need to be preaching to the folks in YOUR camp. It is the Complementarians that make marriage all about power and authority and who has what roles, because some roles are authoritative and masculine and give the man power, and therefore women should not take on those roles. And other roles are about submission and femininity and therefore men should not take on those roles. If you want examples, I’ll be glad to provide them. And yes, it is sad that the Comps – who I think are really just Patriarchalists, but shy away from that word because of its perceived negativity among many Christians – are so concerned with power. Even the term ServantLeader which they commonly use is really about power and authority.
Are you aware of Plessy v. Ferguson – a Supreme Court case that upheld the constitutionality of separate but equal facilities for African Americans? It was a farce that sought to give the appearance of equality, while at the same time denying equality. The comparison to Comp doctrine is quite apropos. Just as Blacks were told that they were equal, had equal facilities, etc. – the evidence was to the contrary. Just as women are told that they are equal to men in Comp. doctrine, the evidence is also quite to the contrary.
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There seem to be a lot of hostile people on here who do not see the beauty and balance of the Ephesians 5 model.
I see the beauty of mutual submission. My husband and I do it every day. We are not complementarian, as defined by the CBMW. Does that mean our marriage does not picture the gospel and, if not, then are we lesser Christians according to the CBMW?
Oh…and still trying to figure out if I am Jesus or the church.
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Today’s (Tuesday) topics were:
Count It Pure Joy: A Generation Returning to Motherhood – GraceAnna Castleberry
Workers at Home: The Temptation to be “Mom Plus” – Mary Mohler
Fitted for Flourishing: How the Bible Creates a Happy Home – Kristie Anyabwile
Teachers of Life: Titus 2 and Theological Discipleship – Mary Kassian
Bound for Life: Following Your Husband Through Life’s Challenges – Courtney Reissig
How a Christian Father Raises Godly Sons – Ronnie Floyd
The Gospel for the Struggling: Overcoming Sinful Desire – Heath Lambert
Sidewalk Chalk and Spray Cans: Painting the Gospel Through Our Life Together – Anthony Moore
(And, it ends with) God’s Design for Women – Alistair Begg
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CBMW @CBMWorg · Apr 11
We should strive to see God through complementarian theology (Gen 1-2; Trinitarian doctrine, Eph 5, final marriage supper). -@grcastleberry
How about if one is single…like Jesus was?
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“A Generation Returning to Motherhood” – My grandmother always worked little jobs and had some hilarious stories to tell. My mother worked full-time. I was home for a while with my kids but am now full-time with one kid in school. There will always be mothers who work and there will always be mothers who stay home. One is not better than the other, it depends upon the family. Why can’t we just support each other no matter what our life circumstance is?
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If all comps were like Cindy’s marriage, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
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See, Diane – – is it any wonder singles feel left out? They are leaving them out!
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“Fitted for Flourishing: How the Bible Creates a Happy Home – Kristie Anyabwile”
This sounds tricky. How does this work? Do we ignore historical contest of the 1st. Century written to include female believers who were considered chattel? Does it include the legal polygam of the 1st century? And so on. Perhaps it includes Joanna who left her husband back at the palace while she traveled with Jesus and helped financially support the men.
How about the focus on being Christ like no matter the gender?. But wait! Christ was male and that testosterone is sanctified. So who is our feminity Savior?
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Lea, this is part of what gets to me, too. The goons with T4G and CBMW try so hard to push gender comp, and make it all-important, that their arguments and sound bites veer into the ludicrous.
And once that happens, they can avoid being laughable only by becoming terrible. Which, as C.S. Lewis said, is a “true mark of evil”.
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Hi song for joy! Sorry I should have clarified my comment as it wasn’t directed at you. Sorry 😊
My point was intending to highlight the fact that we as believers in Jesus have arrived to the point of identifying Christ’s church as being owned by another who usurp the authority of Christ and the Spirit.
The New Testament nowhere gives us the impression that THE church (the people of God) are possessed by some salaried religious professional calling himself The Senior Pastor.
Me thinks people need to stop going to conferences and reading books and spend some quality time with One who cannot be seen.
Too much man worship going on these days haha
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As a medical professional, the ignorant way that they misuse the word “testosterone” really irritates me. Testosterone is a biochemical hormone that gives male humans and animals certain physical and behavioral characteristics, and actually women have testosterone too. Testosterone plays an important “role” in the physical health of both men and women. Testosterone is NOT a personality trait or a spiritual gift! A man can have a medical problem that causes him to have low testosterone levels, and that does not make him any less of a man, a Christian, a husband, or a father. On the other hand, a human male could have high testosterone levels and yet be spiritually and emotionally immature.
I think what they are actually referring to would be better described as “machismo.”
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“Corks of testosterone floating in a sea of estrogen” — What??!!??
I told my husband about that quote, and when he finally stopped laughing, he told me about a joke from junior high that it reminded him of. It was pretty funny but I will not post it here as to not offend others (-; I can think of many more inappropriate jokes that could stem from that comment.
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Sorry, I misquoted. The corks of testosterone were “bobbing” in the sea of estrogen. That could lead to even more inappropriate jokes.
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“I’m praying for those harassing/trolling @CBMWorg & #CBMW16. That they will hear the Gospel, and then we’ll hear their testimony in 2018.”
Maybe after reading their quotes, I’ll get saved and share my testimony at their 2018 conference. The title of my testimony will be, “How I stopped being ashamed of my independent personality and my job skills and embraced the tough, courageous woman that God created me to be, all with the support and encouragement of my wonderful husband, who has always treated me as an equal.”
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Thank you, The Wary Witness. I’ll tweet your medical explanation to Jason Allen so he will be better informed.
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That would be great, JA. Blessings!
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@JA:
“But dat’s wimmen’s work!”
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