Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood 2016 Conference #CBMW16 Live Tweets and Complementarianism Cool-Aid

Complementarian CBMW Owen Strachan, John MacArthur, John Piper, Grant Castleberry, Albert Mohler, Gavin Peacock


 

The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood is holding their conference, “The Beauty of Complementarity” in Complementarity Capital of the World, Louisville.

The nice thing about live tweeting is that I don’t have to research, it’s coming hot off the press by following the hashtag #CBMW16.  They seem to like and tweet a lot of the “cool” phrases their hero leaders say. But a lot of it is not Biblical! It’s pushing their complementarianism (that word is really too long) agenda, which to them says that if you do not believe in husband authority and wife submission in the marriage, they will question whether you really believe the Gospel.  Dude, are you really saved?

It’s important to note that CJ Mahaney is speaking at this event despite the fact that there is an ongoing court case regarding the cover up of sexual abuse cases. Also in attendance is John MacArthur. It surprises me that he is sharing a platform with CJ, not only for this reason, but also because MacArthur is rabidly against anything Charismatic. CJ Mahaney has identified as Reformed Charismatic.

Here are some of the notable tweets.  I’ll add more at the bottom as time permits.

 

 

Here are the books that were handed out:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

182 comments on “Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood 2016 Conference #CBMW16 Live Tweets and Complementarianism Cool-Aid

  1. NJ said


    Ok, this gem from Doug Wilson is my favorite:
    __________
    Feminism is a toxic mess. The best and only complete answer to it is for men to find a woman early, love her completely, feed and educate her children, and bring her as much happiness as you are capable of bringing someone. As one Puritan put it, and man should first choose his love, and then love his choice. Young Christian men should marry in such a way as to make celebration of a 75th anniversary a much greater likelihood.
    _______
    In other words, marry them young enough that they won’t become feminists as long as you treat them right. (Or become disabled, or die young, or develop an addiction, or…)

    Wilson has a limited view of feminism. He assumes all of feminism is equivalent to the bra-burning, man hating women who never shave their legs.

    Secular feminists are actually more varied than that, and Christian feminists are generally nothing like that, either.

    I don’t use the label “feminist” myself (to describe my views) because it has a lot of baggage and is more often associated with liberalism (I am more right wing).

    Yet, I don’t view secular feminist as being the enemy of Christianity, or not near so much as a lot of right wingers and Christians make it out to be.

    I thought this blog post (by a Christian) did a good job on all that:
    Perhaps Feminism is not the Enemy

    NJ said

    In other words, marry them young enough that they won’t become feminists as long as you treat them right. (Or become disabled, or die young, or develop an addiction, or…)

    That is probably what he (Wilson) meant, and I suspect that is one reason a lot of gender comps (at least the ones who have noticed a shift in demographics) pressure women to marry young now.

    It’s easier to lock women into marriage and motherhood if you nab them when they are young, because young women (and men) are usually pretty naive about life and are easier to control and sway.

    However, even if a woman marries at 20 or 25, there is no guarantee her marriage will last. That is, assuming she can get out of the marriage, has the funds to support herself, etc.

    Wilson (and other like-minded Christians) may think he can keep a woman from discovering certain truths about life or herself if she marries young, but even if a woman doesn’t dabble in feminism in her 20s or whatever else, I can tell you the simple process of aging, where you gain tons of life experience, will open a woman’s eyes.

    By the time that naive 21 year old grows to be 35, 40, or 50, her eyes will be opened. Even if, the whole time, she’s been living the Wilson- approved S.A.H.M. lifestyle for women. Some women just naturally start to view life and themselves differently when they reach certain points in life.

    They might look around when they are 40 years old and realize they are not the same person as they were when they were 20, and they don’t want to be married to the same guy they married when they were 20.

    Indoctrination, propaganda, and brain-washing can only work for so long in a person’s life, before Reality and Life Experience sets in, and one’s eyes are opened. A woman does not need secular feminism for that to happen.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. I don’t know about lifewithporpoise in particular, but the other lady higher on this page (Cindy, I think the name was), and similar ladies, often misunderstand people who reject complementarian views and what we’re saying.

    I think people hear a point and immediately apply it to themselves. So if someone says negative things about the comp stuff, they think ‘that’s not me!’. By the same token, I hear the comp ‘wife/mother only’ stuff and think ‘that’s not me’. Where the comp folks go overboard imo is in insisting that everyone be like them, value what they value, and that there is only one way to live your life. There are many ways.

    Not to go on and on about Corrie Ten Boom again, but she fell in love, the man married someone with money instead, and then she lived her entire life as a single woman. Yet, she was at the center of a hub protecting people from the Nazi’s. She suffered greatly for it. She went around after preaching and teaching about it. People benefited greatly from her life and her teaching and it had nothing to do with her being a wife or mother!

    If she had followed these folks notions, she would have never done those things. Their restrictions are wrong. They are misguided. They are not of god. We point these things out, not because there is anything wrong with being a wife, mother, staying at home, etc, but because not everyone has the same path in their lives. And because these (often rather young) men who try to dictate them know nothing of what they should be. They are not god.

    Liked by 2 people

  3. I would like to thank the organizers of CBMW for making it crystal-clear that 40-something, single adult males like myself are persona no grata and have absolutely no place whatsoever in the modern evangelical church.

    I mean really, they couldn’t make it any clearer unless they started an actual pogrom to hunt us all down and exterminate us. Assholes.

    Liked by 4 people

  4. Dash said

    I would like to thank the organizers of CBMW for making it crystal-clear that 40-something, single adult males like myself are persona no grata and have absolutely no place whatsoever in the modern evangelical church.

    As I was just saying at the Patheos blog by that complementarian lady (see my earlier post on this thread), the majority (not all, but majority) or complementarianism is CONSUMED by married mothers.

    Yes, you’ll occasionally get a blog post by a John Piper type telling unmarried women what they may or may not do career-wise, but even guys like him usually are FIXATED on MARRIAGE and PARENTHOOD.

    Most complementarians don’t give a whit about single men or single women.

    I’m a never married, 40 something lady, I never had any kids (am still celibate). I can count the number of articles or sermons I’ve heard for people such as myself by comps (or Christianity overall) on one hand.

    Almost all complementarian books, blog pages, and sermons are admonishing women how to be a submissive wife and mother, when not publishing the occasional blog post that women should not be preachers or elders.

    There is about nothing by comps for single, childless, childfree men and women who are over the age of 30 or 40.

    I think all this points to the fact comps have an agenda: it’s to keep married men at the top of the power pyramid of church and family, keep married women in their place, and give nothing to single women. Single men are also rather hosed in this comp economy.

    Like

  5. Hi Ann. Your point is interesting.

    Daisy, I did not grow up in a Christian home. My parents didn’t have the money for me to go to University and I didn’t qualify for Government assistance. So I didn’t get an ‘education’.

    But I did get an incredible job which was a ridiculous answer to prayer, that educated friends of mine were unable to get through applying. It’s a story for another day but my point is that God provided for me despite my lack of education.

    Did I mention I was kicked out of home young?

    God provides.

    I only had Him.

    I’m not religious.

    I hate church men and those who would command a salary to sprout their God views. I’m open about it.

    Sarah, I apologise that my opinion upsets you.

    My friend who is a single lawyer is upset too.

    She’s bypassed opportunities to pursue a law degree. She now realises that degree won’t give her the children she now desires.

    This is my friend and I see this upset and ask, “why?”

    She chose her path and the consequences are real for her.

    Others simply don’t find that other half. They might want to marry but do not. I’m sorry for people like this as it would be hard to see others getting together and ticking those boxes.

    Daisy, I chose to marry quickly and have as many kids as I can. I’m happy to a family of five or more. I love babies. I don’t care if people hurt by religion think I’m an idiot. I was recently asked by a young woman what I think she should study at uni.

    I didn’t tell her, “do whatever you want”

    I asked her, “do you want to get married someday?”

    She said “yes”

    I suggested studying something that would help her in the home.

    That is, sewing and cooking.

    Does this offend you?

    I know women who can’t cook pasta nor mend a button.

    Should we be proud of this?

    It’s great my friend has a law degree. Truly.

    But she’s desperate to marry and has been taught by society that basic domestic skills are not necessary.

    This just doesn’t sit right with me.

    FWIW: I’m happily married.

    Like

  6. I know men who can’t cook pasta nor mend a button.

    Should we be proud of this?

    No reason to limit these concerns to women, honey. My husband and I split the chores, thanks.

    Like

  7. lifewithporpoise said:
    APRIL 14, 2016 @ 7:04 PM

    Daisy, I did not grow up in a Christian home. My parents didn’t have the money for me to go to University and I didn’t qualify for Government assistance. So I didn’t get an ‘education’.

    But I did get an incredible job which was a ridiculous answer to prayer, that educated friends of mine were unable to get through applying. It’s a story for another day but my point is that God provided for me despite my lack of education.

    Did I mention I was kicked out of home young?

    …Daisy, I chose to marry quickly and have as many kids as I can. I’m happy to a family of five or more. I love babies. I don’t care if people hurt by religion think I’m an idiot. I was recently asked by a young woman what I think she should study at uni.

    Start Daisy’s reply:

    I don’t know what to make of this. So you didn’t go to college – okay.

    I did not judge women poorly in any of my posts about this but even said it’s okay with me if they want to do the June Cleaver thing and be a SAHM and not go to college.

    I completely affirmed your lifestyle choices or situations in a post or two I made above. I did not insult women who did not go to college.

    However, the fact remains, in the sort of economy we live in today, most jobs that pay a livable wage require some sort of college degree. So I do think it is beneficial and wise for people to get a college degree if they can.

    You feel that God provided a great job for you. That’s great.

    But God doesn’t always answer every prayer we have.

    God let my mother drop dead from cancer, for example, though I prayed and prayed for her healing. I have no husband, in spite of years of praying to God for one. On and on I could go with examples of prayers that have not been answered for me.

    God does not provide for everyone everything they need or want even if they trust and pray to him.

    I really, really do not care for the second part of your reply. I no where said that women who have kids are “idiots.”

    I actually went out of my way above to explain in one or two posts above that I am NOT opposed to women who choose to have kids or get married.

    You have usually been a complete jerk to me in the comments, and I have no idea why.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Post Script. Reply to lifewithporpoise

    I took home education while I was in school, including cooking and sewing.

    Those qualities – homemaking qualities such as cooking and sewing – are not necessary to get married, not in any year past 1969, and not unless one is marrying into the Duggar family. I cannot believe you seem to seriously think learning to sew a button to a shirt is necessary for a woman to get married in 2016.

    The guy I was engaged to be married to went to chef school for a few years. He did most of the cooking in our relationship.

    People do not fit into neat little gender boxes.

    If a man I dated insisted I know sewing and cooking for him to continue dating me or to marry me, I would be turned off and run away from him.

    You said,

    I suggested studying something that would help her in the home.

    That is, sewing and cooking.

    Does this offend you?

    No, it does not offend me. Should it?

    Are you assuming it would?

    If you are assuming I am “offended” by it, go back and read my posts on this page and the prior one, because I specifically said that I am NOT opposed to women who marry, have kids, or who don’t go to college.

    I do, however, find your views unhelpful to women who want to marry, and they are archaic – and they’re insulting because you are attributing views to me that I do not hold when I have gone out of my way in this thread (and older ones on this blog) to say I am not against motherhood, marriage, etc.

    You said,

    It’s great my friend has a law degree. Truly.

    But she’s desperate to marry and has been taught by society that basic domestic skills are not necessary.

    Her learning to sew a button to a shirt is not a guarantee she will get a mate, but if a Mr. Right never enters her life, her law degree will help her pay her bills.

    There are no guarantees anyone will get a spouse in life, regardless of what they do ~ learn to cook, sew, get a law degree, play poker, take up ballet as a hobby, learn French, visit the art museum, take a bus to Chicago, learn to fly a plane, eat a doughnut, play frisbee with a dog, go surfing…

    I think you are a dishonest person and enjoy getting people upset – deliberately.
    Which is why I may be scrolling past any posts by you in the future rather than read them and feel compelled to respond.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. No reason to limit these concerns to women, honey.

    Indeed. Also, there is the food network, the internet, and tons of other places you can learn this stuff if you want to. But 20 year old guys don’t particularly care about any of it. My grandmother was a school teacher and had a degree in home ec. But it is not going to help you catch a man, which it sounds like you are saying. Honestly, if you want to talk about Mrs. Degree strategy that’s a whole different ballpark.

    I will say I found your tone both insulting and bragging and terribly insensitive.

    Like

  10. I have family working in Australia so we must keep in mind the differences in the ‘three legged stool (government/politics, social structure, economics.) I believe lifewithaporpoise mentioned she if from this beautiful country which is far different than the U.S., and yet the people are very much the same.

    Australia’s minimum wage is much, much higher than the U.S., with the prices of your goods and services much higher as well, although if one is frugal, one can find some great deals. The country as a whole is more Socialist than the U.S. with most industry being outsourced to other countries due to the fact that the minimum wages are so incredibly high. The U.S. is slowly adopting this form of economics as many manufacturing plants are relocating outside of our national boundaries in pursuit of cheaper labor. This is a tragedy for our country to be sure for we NEED these jobs to strengthen our middle class which is the backbone of our economy.

    I was shocked to learn while staying in Australia that this government mandates by law, that every person is required to vote in elections. And if a ballot is not received by their government of every person of voting age, then the individual is fined and required to pay money for not showing up to vote or sending in an absentee ballot.
    Some would call this a ‘police state mentality,’ and frankly I find it deeply disturbing.

    I still love you lifewithaporpoise, and while staying in your lovely land, it most definitely is a much, much different culture than life over here in the U.S. And I would love to visit Australia again if given the opportunity.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. @ Katy.
    It’s fine if she’s from another country (I used to have Aussie pen pals when I was a teen, who were lovely people), but it was lifewithporpoise’s attitude towards me that I did not care for, and I get the impression she intentionally goes out of her way to “needle” myself and other readers here, and over topics we may find sensitive.

    She was already told once above by another commentator that her comments were coming across hurtful to that person.

    That, and the other thing that set me off is that lifewithporpoise seemed to be attributing views to me that I went out of my way on page 1 of this thread to say I do not hold!

    I also think she is conflating issues, which is confusing things for me and maybe other readers.

    I have also had a run-in with lifewithporpoise on a previous thread or two (over anther subject, if I recall correctly).

    After reading this comment by her, I have have next to no, or no, sympathy for her, as she does not want to extend it to others
    (please bear in mind, I never said women who are mothers, or who don’t get degrees, are idiots, which she is implying here, or so it reads to me):
    by lifewithporpoise:

    I don’t care if people hurt by religion think I’m an idiot. I was recently asked by a young woman what I think she should study at uni.
    [she then goes on to advocate in her post that women should learn home-making skills, and at that, to earn, entice, or win a husband]

    It does not bother me if other women want to make a choice to marry and have kids and stay out of college..

    Or if they want to learn to sew and cook (though I question the motive: if you think cooking and sewing will necessarily land you a husband, good luck with that).

    My issue with people like lifewithporpoise is that they feel the only suitable way for a woman to live life is on their terms
    (in her case, it would be avoiding college, marrying young, and having children – which is a stereotypical 1950s American way of viewing women and women’s purpose, which American gender complemetnarians of today insist is the only “biblical” and proper way for women to live).
    lifewithporpoise definitely gives that vibe off in her comments. Maybe she doesn’t feel that way, but that view seems to permeate some of her posts.

    It’s the same attitude I grew up with – I was brought up in a gender complementarian family, where I was pressured to think by the church and my parents to feel my only role in life was to marry and have children. Marriage never worked out for me (I broke up with my fiance), so I remain single.

    I am concerned for and about women who naively walk into marriage, avoiding college, and/or having children, that they do so because their parents, society, or their religious tradition pressures them into doing so and/or does not present other alternatives for a woman.
    I see American gender comps pressuring young women today to go this route. Women are not presented with other ideas of what they can be in life, they are given only this one, very narrow option by American Christian comps.

    The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 7 it is better to remain single.
    But do you ever hear American gender complementarians advocating that women choose to be single (that it’s another option for them), or to feel okay about being single, if they find themselves single against their plans and hopes?
    I sure have not. And I was brought up in gender comp churches, constantly exposed to their teachings.

    Out of the complementarians who have noticed that more and more women are not marrying these days, what they do is shame, pressure, and scold women under the age of 30 or 25 to marry right away.
    Complementarians don’t present these women with the idea that it’s okay to stay single for life, or into their 30s and older.

    Southern Baptist Al Mohler (who is a gender comp) has posted, in glee, I may add, posts on his blog in the past noting studies that say that adult singles supposedly die sooner than married people (such studies are not accurate, by the way).

    Mohler really goes out of his way to make singleness look miserable in his blog posts and a few radio shows or conferences he went to, and he tells singles on his blog that marriage is the cure, basically – that is a totally unbiblical view. It has zero biblical support.

    Mohler and gender comps like this do this to scare women into marrying and marrying young. It’s disgusting, and again, it goes against 1 Cor. 7, and they seem to forget that their founder, Jesus Christ, was single and childless.

    Wanting to get married and being married is fine and dandy. I have no opposition to people wanting marriage or being married. I’m still hoping to marry eventually myself.

    But while I am single, I don’t appreciate how so many Christians shame singles for being single, or ignore our needs to focus on marriage and the nuclear family, as they tend to do.

    Liked by 2 people

  12. @ Sarah

    You’re welcome. 🙂 There was probably more I could have said, and I could have said it better, but it was late last night when I typed those posts, and I was getting pretty sleepy.

    I kind of have some stuff going on in my personal life right now that has my anxiety levels going up and down, so this isn’t a great time for me.

    I know what it’s like to feel devalued or put down merely for being single or childless, or not fulfilling some other life script or milestone in life, that conservative Christians or the culture says you must meet to be considered normal or a winner.

    Liked by 2 people

  13. Daisy,
    I do hear the cry of your heart and am actually in total agreement with what you believe and the Biblical support you quote thereof. My experiences in the last abusive church system was that of the Baptist denomination with a charismatic/Pentecostal Assembly of God (with his paper degree) pastor man, which was actually more of a cult playing the role of god in our lives with the mind games, manipulation and control tactics in misusing the Holy Scriptures for their own gain. So I do empathize with your situation here and to be perfectly honest in the public forum, since becoming a part of the Body of Jesus Christ here on this site, you have been more than honest and respectful in addressing the issues as presented by Julie Anne.

    And yes, the Bible does discuss the topic of revilers as having no place in His Kingdom, always disagreeing and always ‘sticking up for the other guy’ in trying to destroy your reality and ‘nitpicking’ at your soul. It is indeed, a tactic used by satan that I am very much familiar with as the pastor, church board, deacons and deaconesses of ill repute, used very well to abuse those who would not worship them or live as they were told by their standards, not God’s obedience. The false teachers, false prophets and prophetesses LOVE to speak words of wisdom, their own vain words of course, to lead you in the direction of their own making. Something as simple as going out and buying garden seed and flowers from their ‘labeled’ secular greenhouse now became a “sin” and I was strongly encouraged to support the locally proclaimed “christian woman (?)” who homeschooled her children and had a lazy husband (according to the deaconess gossip). Oh, how I dislike being manipulated with such mundane things as these, especially in light of the fact that there several amazing believers who treat me with such love and respect at the greenhouse that I have been supporting for years and years.

    And concerning Albert Mohler, why in the world is the evangelical world listening to another preacher man who loves the sound of his own voice rather than reading and studying the Scriptures for ourselves. Does the phrase “another human idol” resonate with the visible church?

    And you are also correct concerning the issue of the single Christian with regards to church systems. The programs and extra special perks are focused primarily on married couples and their children, with little fellowship for singles who are born again. My children are finding this out the hard way in our smaller communities. Fellowship here in our neck of the woods is evangelicals meeting at the bar, getting drunk and then it gets pretty ugly from there.

    I remember Oasis on this site and the utterly disrespectful way in which she was castigated. It was a shame and I cried for her for I believe she was thrown under the bus by those who proclaim themselves as followers of Jesus. How can this be?
    Prayers are still said for her precious soul.

    I love you Daisy and want to encourage you in your faith in Jesus, as well as speaking truth from your heart. I, for one, am learning so much from you in relating it to my life and how I should treat others in pointing them to Christ.

    Our LORD is with you.

    Liked by 3 people

  14. I kind of have some stuff going on in my personal life right now that has my anxiety levels going up and down, so this isn’t a great time for me.

    Best to you, Daisy. I’ve been having a rough week myself.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. LifeWithPorpoise,

    My grandmother and her sister got university educations in the 1920s at a famous American university. Their father was from Scotland and university educated.

    My grandmother and great-aunt both got university degrees in the hard sciences. They both also knew the domestic arts – cooking, sewing, canning, music.

    My grandmother was asked to teach college classes on Geometry to men going off to war so they could fly their planes.

    My great-aunt got her university degree in Physics. She also did research, teaching, and she and her husband had a farm and a family.

    They helped countless people better their lives in higher education, by first bettering their own. The power of higher education is not to be under-estimated.

    I’m glad that your life worked out, and your job, without a higher education. But times are changing and many jobs require a higher education.

    As to your friend with a law degree who would like marriage and children, has she considered adopting children?

    Liked by 3 people

  16. Katy APRIL 15, 2016 @ 9:03 AM “I remember Oasis on this site and the utterly disrespectful way in which she was castigated. It was a shame and I cried for her for I believe she was thrown under the bus by those who proclaim themselves as followers of Jesus. How can this be?
    Prayers are still said for her precious soul.”

    Hi Katy,

    Gail here, you are a gem to remember what happened to Oasis. I am in contact with her & I know the damage that was done to her, it is heartbreaking. I shared with her what you wrote and she gave me permission to respond to you. The timing of your comment has the Holy Spirit written all over it. Love your heart, kindness and wisdom, you nail the self-serving celebrities. Our best to you.

    Liked by 2 people

  17. “Gail here, you are a gem to remember what happened to Oasis. I am in contact with her & I know the damage that was done to her, it is heartbreaking. I shared with her what you wrote and she gave me permission to respond to you. The timing of your comment has the Holy Spirit written all over it. Love your heart, kindness and wisdom, you nail the self-serving celebrities. Our best to you.”

    Give her my love next time you converse. I think of her often.

    Liked by 3 people

  18. “But she’s desperate to marry and has been taught by society that basic domestic skills are not necessary.”

    My older brothers were doing laundry, house chores and cooking for themselves when they were 10. Same with me. When it came to responsibility and opportunity, we were all raised the same. Both my grandmother’s were college educated along with one ggrand. It was not a question of if college but where. One of them came from a poor family, her mom died when she was 9. But her dad insisted she go. I paid my way with 3 jobs. I don’t know how I did it.

    Some men appreciate educated independent women. Poor Women with children have always worked so that ‘stay at home with your kids’ thing is a modern Western civilization result of a middle class.. Black women with little ones picked cotton all day.

    It just not all black and white. I don’t think anyone should put you down for your choices either. Chances are your lawyer friend would be in the same predicament without a law degree. College is where many meet their future mates. That and work, ironically. However, have you seen the latest stats on singles in this country? It is higher than ever before. Include single because of divorce and it surpassed marrieds.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. Hello gm370 and Oasis,

    You are very kind, for truth be told, I don’t consider myself to be very wise and my words aren’t that of a slick debater, but do appreciate the valuable life lessons that I am learning from this site.

    Your friendship with Oasis reminded me of these verses overflowing with love;

    “Greater love has no man than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.” John 15:13

    “By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.” 1 John 3:16 (this can only be God, the Holy Spirit living and working here for this verse resembles John 3:16……so wonderful!)

    gm, Praise be to God, that you are still loving and encouraging Oasis, for true friends are there for one another through thick and thin. I love and respect the fact that you have a heart for those who have been wronged. It is a genuine testimony to your faith in Christ as well as following what God commands us to do. And you will be rewarded for your faithfulness as will Oasis. The Christian culture is desperately in need of more like you.

    Lydia, so thankful others are thinking and praying in the Spirit for a precious one who has been so wronged by a people who ‘know it all,’ yet are lacking where the fruits of God’s Spirit are concerned.

    I just can’t help singing and dancing (in my dirt field surrounded by rocks-an open invitation to all to come and help me pick, smile!) to these words,

    “Where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is freedom…….”

    I love the amazing people on this site, for the real life stories here and the working of God’s redemption in our lives is a testimony to the Glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ. And gm370, please share with Oasis that she is so loved…..by many of us…..and most, most, most importantly, by our King, Jesus.

    Liked by 2 people

  20. Katy,

    Just sent her a e-mail, your words will touch her beautiful heart. She is so full of love. I can’t imagine not having her in my life, plus, she helped me out unpacking all that comp garbage. I’m not the brightest, all their words, words, words and doctrines confuse this 61 yr. old granny. Found this song this morning over at TWW, a much needed tune in light of the nasty T4G2016 business. God Bless your generous heart.

    Like

  21. gm370,

    Oh Praise our LORD Jesus Christ for God, the Holy Spirit is truly moving and working amongst His people! Glory Alleluia!

    This song, “My Deliverer” is my most favorite Christian song for many years, other than the Psalms. How did you know this? Oh, thank-you dear sister, for this moving reminder of Jesus’ love.

    God Bless you, gm370…..God Bless You!

    Liked by 1 person

  22. I’m a native of Louisville. I have only recently come to realize the Southern Baptist institution is in my city! They are so insulated & separate that the majority of Louisville folks have no clue about them so this blows me away that my city is their hub. Anyway, I began attending a church that did not have Baptist in the name to attract folks who wouldn’t feel comfortable in a Southern Baptist church. After 6 years of watching and trying to be accepted into the authoritarian, caste-like Baptist society, we finally left to return to the sinful commoners of louisville. There is nothing Biblical about how they operate but I don’t have a SB seminary degree so you can disregard anything I say, I’m not worthy to offer comment.

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  23. Kmsmith. Unfortunately, this is not just SB, but representative of the greater evangelical world. I grew up in a caste system church as well. Women, Men, Deacons, Elders, Pastors. The only way people would listen to you was if you were an elder or pastor, or someone who was on that track. I was on that track and got affirmation for awhile, but at some point I was too old to be on the track and suddenly the hearing and affirmation I had received earlier was replaced with skepticism and rejection. I wasn’t different, but my place in the caste system had changed.

    I think this is a blatant rejection of Biblical leadership. The very word translated “elder” means just that. Old guy. It seems completely wrong to think that a 25-year-old seminary graduate with a wife and a 2-year-old is a spiritual “old guy”, yet a 50-60 year old man who has maintained a stable life, raised godly kids and is well-known to the church doesn’t have any worth, except to back up the seminary graduate’s ludicrous ideas of parenting, and keep the tithe check coming.

    In my first cross-cultural small group. I was astonished at the amount of wisdom these “spiritual has beens” had. Yet, it seems like the church pushes those wise people to the side in favor of the next generation of immature, power-hungry college grads (I was one of those once).

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  24. at some point I was too old to be on the track

    The idea of ‘aging out’ of the elder track is mind boggling!

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  25. Agreed, but there has to be something behind it. For example, my old (Reformed) church has yearly conferences. There is a lot of pressure on late high schoolers to commit to serve the church, and there is somewhat of a golden opportunity window around that age. So, the idea is that these juniors and seniors make a commitment, after a “consecration service” (i.e. fire and brimstone to all who don’t give themselves entirely to God TODAY) then their mentors/sessions guide them towards pastoral study or at least a Reformed college.

    There is a smallish window after college graduation as well, for people who have apparent gifts, but aren’t as interested in being pastors.

    So, it seems like the ministerial energy of the church is focused on ages 16-25. So, I caught the tail end of that graduating from college, but then I went to graduate school from 26-28 and when I was done, I was too old to have my theological ideas beaten out of me, so instead, they made sure that I wasn’t going to go anywhere.

    Once you’re a “known quantity” and older than about 25, then there is no point in putting you in leadership, because if you were leadership material, you would already have been identified. If you come from the outside, there is hope, even for older people, so yes, I have seen guys in their 40’s and 50’s get elected, but typically they’ve only been at the church for a few years.

    Part of this is the Evangelical church’s idea of eldership. It is charisma, knowledge and energy – more like ability to stare down and outrun sheep, than to guide them. So, they can take someone who is 22 years old and energetic, put him through seminary and now he is a 26-year-old energetic piece of elder material. Weirdly, I’ve always been drawn towards wisdom and experience, but that is not what the church seems to look for.

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  26. “After 6 years of watching and trying to be accepted into the authoritarian, caste-like Baptist society, we finally left to return to the sinful commoners of louisville. There is nothing Biblical about how they operate…” – kmsmith

    The spread of NeoCalvinism, and Patriarchy, was planned by the Southern Baptists. First they planned to take over the seminaries, and succeeded. Then they planned to take over churches and succeeded. Southern Baptists lost a whopping 200,000 living members last year, as people are fed up with the authoritarianism and Patriarchy teachings and leaving. Southern Baptists also have the highest divorce rate in the nation, higher than atheists (Barna study), at time when the nation’s divorce rate has been declining. Southern Baptists’ divorce rate is even higher than atheists.

    I was in a fairly new church that was started by a NeoCalvinist John MacArthur Master’s Seminary graduate and his friends. It was one of the most abusive, toxic churches, complete with excommunications and shunnings of anyone who had a thought, questioned anything. The pastors/elders even excommunicated a personal, long-time friend of Pastor John MacArthur’s, a godly doctor in his 70s (faithful, loving husband for about 45+ years, loving father to grown children, thoughtful, well-read, generous with his time and money to the church). I refer to it as Salem Witch Trials II.

    You’re correct. These churches aren’t Biblical. They teach heresy (Eternal (a lie) Subordination of the Son to justify Patriarchy/Comp teachings) and on and on.

    I regret I ever gave them any money. I wish I, and others, could ask for a full refund.
    They wouldn’t be able to survive if people closed their wallets and stop funding these nonsense.

    Liked by 1 person

  27. Well, one of the tweets is almost true, put another way. Men are seeing themselves as spiritual leaders, and women are dying.

    Liked by 1 person

  28. So, I just had the opportunity to walk through a rather large and busy casino. Please note that I said “walk through.” It set me to wondering why, if ours is a deterministic god who arbitrarily grants Grace to some to exercise patriarchal and ecclesiastical Authority over wives, children and congregants, why should I look down on those who are but granting Him the opportunity to, in His Providence, make them wealthy?

    But then the real lesson hit me. I posit that the people patronizing this casino this Lord’s day have just as great a probability of finding the true Jesus on the casino floor as do the multiple thousands who are this same day investing their (unscriptural) tithes in in support of some self-gratifying, authority-of-patriarchy preaching “pastor’s” vision (all in-the-name-of-Jesus and in the interests of the Glory of god, of course).

    I would go so far as to say that it is more likely that Jesus walks casino floors than that he regularly bestows his approving presence on the typical mega “church” performance–er, I mean service. If nothing else, I rather fancy that Jesus was sitting right next to a woman I saw feeding a slot machine early one morning about this time last year–a woman I’m thinking had been spent the previous night in her pursuit and whose visage–nay, her very being–projected what could only be described as utter, irremediable despair.

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  29. I think you may be onto something. I think of Jesus knocking at the doors of all hearts, regardless of where the body happens to be at the moment.

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