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Husbands with Rebellious Wives
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“Be considerate as you live with your wife, with respect” 1 Peter 3:7
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The other day, I read a Facebook status from a friend whose wife had gone overseas for a week and left him with three young children. His words were so sweet as he made notes of what it was like for him as a temporary stay-at-home dad. Here were some of his key points:
- there is no privacy (he repeated this phrase a handful of times during the list – I think he really missed his privacy)
- there are always more dishes to do
- he could not keep up with the house cleaning before a destruction-minded toddler came through a room again
- there is no time for exercise
- nothing gets finished because of constant interruptions
- getting someplace on time with kids in tow is practically a miracle
This sweet dad/husband publicly praised his wife for what he didn’t realize she had been doing each and every day. Of course he likely had an idea, but to actually do her job and do it well was a huge challenge to him.
Their marriage reflects mutual respect and sacrificial love. He does not lord over her, he values her. They both work hard at their jobs. They take time for each other and their relationship and it’s beautiful.
Right around the same time I read my friend’s Facebook status, I also read a blog article by Ken Alexander entitled, Wimpy Husbands with Rebellious Wives. The “rebellious” word in the title sent shivers down my spine. What would cause someone to use such a harsh word when talking about wives?
The article starts off very negatively against women, “how to best deal with the antics and emotions of a difficult wife.” Right off the bat, I am reading control. It’s like he is assuming the worst in women. Ken believes husbands must have complete control over their wives and in this article, he challenges “wimpy” husbands who don’t control their wives and their rebellious behavior. Patriarchy, much? Check this out:
I have personally heard from far too many Christian husbands how frustrated they are with a wife who can’t discipline herself enough to get some of the basics of the home, family and marriage completed in any normal way, yet the wife wants nothing to do with their husband’s attempts at correcting a bad situation. The husband can beg a wife to please try to have the house picked up and dishes done by the time he gets home, yet she is just far too busy to be able to get these basics of life completed. In her mind, he just does not understand and now she has her girlfriends agreeing with her, so he must be a jerk. After all, how can ten women with half the facts not come up with the right answers?
If he questions her lack of discipline, her inability to get to the gym, to have a home cooked meal on the table every evening, or have the laundry done once a week, she calls him not understanding or unloving. And when the claws come out and tears start, the husband is put back into his corner as the “unloving jerk who is way too picky and demanding!”
He talks about how he picks up the slack in the home with meals, taking care of kids and helping with homework but asks:
I am curious what the readers of this blog would counsel a husband to do when he is married to just such a wife. Accept as a premise that she lacks any modicum of self-discipline; she is a stay at home Mom with plenty of time spent relaxing and being online each day. [JA note: and he knows this how?]
And he continues:
Does love demand that he seek his wife’s best interest in training his rebellious wife in self discipline, even if she cannot see how this is indeed true love in meeting her needs?
Ok, what a contrast between two husbands, huh? Ken’s article really concerns me because we are seeing him use the word “love” as a means of control. Love is not about controlling someone. I am very concerned about women living in these environments where their husbands must control them. I’m also concerned about the children in these homes who think it’s normal for dads to control their wives. Ugh. We can do better than this as Christians.
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Spiritual Sounding Board 
I remember a pastor speaking at a conference who was telling us about being at another conference once where an older man stood up and said, “I don’t understand. Women have all these time saving devices like washing machines and vacuum cleaners. What do they do in their spare time all day long.” The pastor relating that story said every one in the room started ducking away from the guy in order not to get hit in case Bibles and hymnals started getting tossed at him.
It sounds like Mr. Alexander would instead have told that story with praise for the man. Makes me wanna puke.
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The first husband gets it. He understands what his wife goes through each day. It is really sad that more do not have the opportunity to grasp what their wives go through and respect them because of it or for that matter, respect them just because they are their wives.
Apparently, Mr. Alexander and the man that Tim spoke of need educating. They have never heard: A man may work from sun to sun, but a woman’s work is never done, especially with active young children. The former husband used to tell me that he did more by mistake than I did on purpose. That was one of the lesser comments of his verbal vomit.
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Well I can immediately think of a name I want to call this man. It starts with the word “misogynist” and ends with a slang term for a particular body part.
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JA, you really ought to look into Men’s Rights sites and how similar their rhetoric is to these guys, complete with the recommendations of manipulation tactics. There is Christian crossover with those sites as well.
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Thanks, but no thanks, Hester. Blech!
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It does have to do with respect. My partner does most of the cooking – because he enjoys it more than I do. I do more of the cleaning – because I’m more of a perfectionist when I clean than he is and even though he’s fine with doing it, I’d go after him and do a deeper clean than he would. What’s important to us individually is what we tend to do more of in our domestic partnership. There’s no blaming, no person has more or less control, or even clear his/hers duties. If some evenings we don’t get any thing done – it’s okay. It’ll get done sooner or later. I’m done with rules and nagging – not going to happen in my household.
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All I know is, after reading this, I’m so glad my hubby is like the first guy. He understands I have interruptions all day (and my kids are older!). He understand that I have interests of my own that I want or need to pursue to feel like I am my own person (like learning a new musical instrument). If the dishes aren’t done, he does them. If I forgot to get the laundry, he takes it upstairs and folds it (and he starts a load every morning on the way out the door to work!). He doesn’t criticize me or blame me or say, “Can’t you do better.” He loves me and serves me. I have the best husband evah! (Now, he may get after the kids for not picking up their messes – yay! – but he never gets on my case.)
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Ya’ll need to check out Lori Alexander’s blog. She is married to Ken and really is a piece of work. I will reserve any comments and let everyone draw their own conclusions. However, if you disagree with her, you are toast!
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Ann, I’ve come to my own conclusions, alright. I don’t think it’s too far from “my wife is rebellious,” to “my wife needs to be disciplined.” Just sayin’
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My husband was a single dad with full custody of a 1 and 2 year. We met and married 5 years later when the kids were 6 & 7. He so appreciated me and still does(married 38 years).
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I love it when husbands/dads get to walk that proverbial mile in the wife’s/mom’s shoes. Funny how the job looks a lot more difficult than before.
“there is no privacy (he repeated this phrase a handful of times during the list – I think he really missed his privacy)”
My personal favorite is how all the kids, who were previously quietly engaged, suddenly NEED me the instant I take a moment alone for something. 🙂
“The husband can beg a wife to please try to have the house picked up and dishes done by the time he gets home, yet she is just far too busy to be able to get these basics of life completed.”
Ya think? I think maybe the wife should consider how she can correct such “a bad situation.” Ditch the guy.
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I always cringe when I see this kind of thing; the situation the author is describing is not Biblical homemaking, but rather the 1950s perfect housewife. Part of my washing my wife in the Word is to draw the difference for her.
One example of the difference is in Proverbs 31, where the wife of noble character is engaged in the process of taking wheat and flax fiber to market. My kids happen to have a spinning wheel and are even now breaking, scutching, and combing flax for spinning. It is a messy process, and the process completed before, called retting (rotting, really), is quite dirty and smelly.
Side note; dew retting is probably what Rahab was doing with that flax she used to hide Caleb and Joshua–and part of the reason the spies weren’t found may have been that most people who know that process wouldn’t believe that anyone could hide in that smell, nor did they want to carry that smell home.
Combine that with agricultural pursuits, cooking, and dirt floors, and we can infer that the home of the “wife of noble character” was many things, but “Martha Stewart immaculate” or “Better Homes and Gardens Centerfold” were not among them. Provide for her family, absolutely. Make the home a good place to eat, sleep, socialize, and love? You bet. Museum? Nope.
Along those lines, a former pastor once tried to take my wife to task because our home was not “Martha Stewart immaculate”. Suffice it to say that he was lucky I simply pointed out that was NOT a Biblical requirement and did not throw him physically out of my home.
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BTDT,
“I think maybe the wife should consider how she can correct such “a bad situation.” Ditch the guy.”
It worked for me. Now that I no longer am married to the X, it is amazing how often he asks me how to do things that he used to complain that I didn’t do right. I don’t lift a finger to tell him what he needs to know. This past week he asked me to make him no-bake cookies. Fat chance. I told him there were recipes online.
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“This past week he asked me to make him no-bake cookies. Fat chance. I told him there were recipes online.”
🙂 Yep. “Google is your friend, dear.”
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I’m sure most people saw the “Good Wife’s Guide” that was widely circulated on the net some years back. Snopes says the *article* is fake, but the underlying attitudes were correct for that time period. Ken Alexander’s whine reminds me of that article.
I think what Ken really wants is his mommy.
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btdt,
This look like it was taken directly from Emily Post. They did actually have these kinds of instructions for wives in the 50’s and maybe before.
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Ann,
I went to Lori A’s blog. I got as far as teaching women to be “obedient” to their husbands and had enough of that. She inappropriately defines submission as obedience. They are not in any way the same thing. She drank the koolaid. Someone please take her cup away.
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Lori and Ken are cranks. The (mostly) women at Free Jinger take them on regularly, and get nowhere. They are uneducable.
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But the headline did remind me of another story from the mini-mega we used to attend.
About 10-12 years ago, there was a woman on staff with the counseling department. She was fabulous – well trained (not nouthetic), passionate, intelligent, giving. She spoke to the guys at a college retreat, mostly tongue in cheek, about how cussing was allowed as long as it edified the hearer.
Not only was she let go, but her husband, a staff pastor, was also fired. For not having his wife under sufficient control.
This is one of the best-known, most “mainstream” evangelical churches in the Portland area.
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Hmmmm I don’t know this story.
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It enter down over a period of, maybe a year? I have trouble remembering the details. She was let go, and then her husband followed about a year later. The issue was specifically that he couldn’t keep her properly submissive.
I wrote a letter to the elders in support of her, but never heard any response.
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She is rebellious if she can’t get to the gym? I’m out.
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I am a single parent of a son who’s at college. I’m also self-employed.
I can’t begin to count how many days I’ve had when I had a well-planned to-do list, and one email or problem after another interrupted things, until I had time at 6 pm to look at the list again. I can’t imagine how often this happens to someone with small children at home, and then is trying to homeschool. Life usually doesn’t follow our lists and schedules.
If Ken thinks it’s so freaking easy, let’s have him take care of six kinds under the age of 12 for a week and see if he even survives, let alone maintains a perfect home.
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And when these control freaks as husbands become pastors/elders they demand that church members bow and scrape to them, “obey” and “submit”, and kick you out if your protest and order that you be shunned.
At my recent church, a godly doctor (married to his wife for 40+, a stand up man, father, generous, smart, discerning, Biblically knowledgeable) was tossed out of our church, his good name dragged through the mud by the senior pastor, simply because he wouldn’t submit but asked them questions about how they were running the church. The pastors/elders ordered that we 150 members and their families shun him. It was despicable!
And next…was me. I was tossed out for asking tough questions about a convicted sex offender on Megan’s List, a friend of theirs they are protecting and enabling. And I was ordered to be shunned by the 150+ members and their families.
Although now that I’m no longer giving an offering every week at church (I haven’t found a new church home), I did contribute to the online fund to save Vyckie Garrison’s home (the woman who left patriarchy and the quiver full movement). That was nice for 350+ to do for her and her children. I am grateful for her blog as well.
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hmmm. see he loses me as soon as he starts using words like “training” in relation to his wife…
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Argh. This makes me so mad. I work at a store an hour south of home 3-4 days a week. I have one or two days a week. home alone without my husband. Guess what my husband asks of me. “Do nothing but what makes you happy or helps you feel better. Eat, sew, read, watch tv, play with the cat but don’t touch the vacuum or the laundry room. Pretend the dishwasher doesn’t exist.” Is it any wonder I love him so much? He lovingly and willingly sacrifices of himself to take on the bulk of the household chores so as to spare me from further pain and stress. If I’m feeling good I definitely move the balance closer towards 50-50 but I don’t hesitate to rest on bad days. To me this is the definition of our marriage: mutual sacrifice for the betterment of each other. I think Ken Alexander could learn a little from my husband whose first question is always “How may I serve you?”
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That’s wonderful, Mandy.
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The guy wrote,
Why does his wife have to “get to the gym?” (I suspect I know why he feels that way, but I’m at this point just asking.)
Seems to me a lot of Christian men need to waddle their out of shape tub of lard bodies down to a gym, or at least take up jogging around the neighborhood several times per week. Women are visual and enjoy a buff man. Preachers need to stop assuming only MEN enjoy women who are in shape.
Another thing that bothers me about stuff like this when it’s written by men.
Almost every relationship I’ve known, whether married couples or live in boyfriends (other than my own parents), the WOMAN is the one who holds the 9 to 5 job AND who does the housework.
In addition, the woman begs the stay- at -home- all- day husband (or BF) to at least mop the floor during the day or wash his dirty dishes while she is at the job, but the men in these situations never do.
Yet these guys who write these articles act like this is only a problem for male- led households. There are female- led households where the working woman comes home to a sloppy house, too, and no hot cooked meal on the table.
My sister had a live in BF for over 20 years who spent the majority of that relationship on the internet chatting with friends (he would still be online when my sister got home from work, and she’d ask, “Have you been online all day? Is that why you didn’t clean the dirty dishes in the sink again?” He would fess up and say “Yep.” -And that happened repeatedly over their 20 yrs together.)
I also have an aunt or two, and have had a few internet lady acquaintances, who were the job holders in the home, who also had a male BF/husband who sat around in his boxers all day watching TV, and not working at a job nor keeping house (the woman had to do it all).
Anyway. Based on one or two books I read by psychologists / therapists, if you are a woman married to a guy like the one Julie Anne quoted (the second one), he may be a perfectionistic blow hard, who is demanding asking to much of you.
And even if you catered to his every entitled whim, it would never be enough, he would just keep demanding more and more and complain about what you do do.
In one book I have, the therapist who wrote it talks about a lady client she had. The lady’s husband was constantly yelling at her that she was not mopping their kitchen floor exactly right (to his satisfaction), he didn’t like how she folded his underwear (it had to be folded in a special manner, just like dear old mom used to do).
The lady client told the therapist she had become deeply depressed since being married to this clown for a couple of years. She couldn’t believe what a lousy wife she was being. If she loved her husband, she thought, she should be able to fold hubby’s undies just like he likes, etc. She asked the doctor, “why am I such a failure as a wife.”
The therapist said she told this client, “Have you ever considered that your husband is too picky, too demanding and a perfectionist, and that is unfair to you?” In other words, women tend to blame themselves instead of realizing their husband is a control freak. (If neatly folded undies is such a huge deal to a man, he can fold his own, btw.)
So I would suggest to the second guy of this post that he might be the problem, NOT his wife or the wives of other men he’s complaining about.
Also. Some of us are SINGLE. We don’t have a spouse. We don’t come home to a meal and clean laundry done by a spouse. We have to do that stuff for ourselves, so these husbands who complain about lacking that stuff don’t get a lot of sympathy from me.
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On another note. There used to be a couple of shows on TV called “Wife Swap.” On some of those, the sexist swine jerk husbands, who took their wives for granted changed their tune after a few weeks of having a different “wife” in the home.
Those episodes were so awesome, because the TV producers would pair up that type of idiot (the sexist, entitled man who took his wife for granted) with bossy or totally lazy women who would REFUSE to cater to the man, or who would do SOME chores themselves, but they would command that the husband help too and not just sit on his butt watching the TV.
These sexist men would be forced to take on the duties of their now-gone wives, they would have to cook meals, clean home, change diapers, drive kids to school, etc.
And these men about went nuts. They would confess to the camera, “I used to think my wife had it easy, but now I get it. I realize she busts her butt to do all this domestic stuff. I am tired. I am exhausted taking care of kids and/or cooking/cleaning all day.”
What would happen after two or three weeks of that is when the families switched back again, these formerly sexist men (now re-educated) would hug the stuffing out of their newly returned wife and say, “I took you for granted before, but never again! I now see what you do day to day.”
These guys really had their eyes opened to how demanding their wives had it when they were forced to take on the wife’s role for a few weeks.
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Hester said,
Would that include the classic tactic of husband or BF intentionally doing a poor job on laundry (or whatever chore) so that the wife/GF gets so exasperated, she says to the man, “Never again, move over, I will do it! I will never ask you ever again.”
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Did anyone else wonder why Ken is writing on his wife’s blog? I looked on the blog and it has her name on it. It’s a blog by a woman for women, you know, Titus 2 stuff, so why is he writing this stuff for a female audience?
This is right on the front page:
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Brenda R said,
I have a very perfectionistic family member. He thinks his way (of doing anything and everything) is the only right way.
I used to try to live up to that. As I got older, I gave up. I realized how foolish it is to keep trying to please someone who can never be pleased anyway.
Any time he complained that I was not doing thus- and- so (washing dishes, folding towels, whatever it was) to his satisfaction, I would say, ‘If you feel that way, I will stop doing it.’ And I would.
The moment you start nit picking HOW I do a task, I stop doing it. I’ll let you do it yourself since you know so much better than I.
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Ken and Lori are a big ticket item over at free jinger forum, not for the faint of heart. I will merely state this, women are what keep churches running, even the real fundi type. They do a lot of the heavy lifting in conservative and liberal faith communities. I think Ken is well not accurate in his view of relationships.
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“Did anyone else wonder why Ken is writing on his wife’s blog? I looked on the blog and it has her name on it. It’s a blog by a woman for women, you know, Titus 2 stuff, so why is he writing this stuff for a female audience?”
Ken is on the final editing committee just to make sure the blog does not get too uppity. In my opinion it is a tag team effort, a very unhealthy one at that.
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So, Brian, do you think she “submits” (haha) articles for his approval before they are posted?
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Speaking of some of the posts above that discuss what life was like for women in the USA in the 1950s.
It’s my understanding from having read criticisms of the 50s by feminists (assigned reading when I was in college), from many biographies of actress Marilyn Monroe (whose career was at its zenith in the 50s), to looking at vintage ads and magazine articles, and my mother is a product of that era (she graduated from HS in the late 50s), I think I have an idea of what the 50s were like.
And my take away is that the 50s were pretty limiting for women.
What I find strange is that women who were in college in the 50s, over on another blog, were arguing this past week that oh no, the 50s weren’t as confining for women as we’ve all been led to believe. She had gone to nursing school or something. I suspect her experience might be atypical, though.
I just do not see the 50s as being a bastion of equal opportunity for women. Seems to me women were very much expected to marry young, stay at home, and have kids.
As I pointed out on the other blog, even if women did have a lot of opportunities in the 50s, it remains that a lot of the gender complementarians of TODAY (many of whom are what, in their 50s or older?) perceive the 1950s as the Golden Era of Womanhood.
I am, on a fairly consistent basis, seeing Christian social conservatives and gender complementarians, quoting upon the 1950s quite favorably in their blogs or books, when women were women and knew their place (they stayed at home all day baking cookies), and all men were fathers who worked at a 9 to 5 job daily.
Then, these writers cite the horrors of the secular feminist / hippie 1960s decade with its long haired men, birth control, and how all that women’s lib messed up marriage and the genders.
So… even in reality, if the woman poster at the other blog is correct, and if the 50s were a Woman’s Rights Nirvana, men of today in social conservative circles, and gender comps, do NOT view the the 1950s that way.
There has to be a reason why today’s gender comps so often refer to the 50s in such rosy, nostalgic terms. They really do view the 60s as the begging of the end of the nuclear family and male hierarchy in the United States, and it’s a decade (the 60s) that gets them sad or angry.
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“So, Brian, do you think she “submits” (haha) articles for his approval before they are posted?”
Actually Julie Anne if you dont mind some real “frank” talk concerning complementarian home schooling, Doug Phillips who is a tool (you will get that one quick if you go there) etc over at free jinger. Some of those folks have some really good and rather long thought out insight. Just google free jinger. It is run by a variety of moderators and it can get rather racy. But it does have a unique perspective with many survivors of a variety of faith community groups.
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Just an aside the 1950’s, no reflection on daisy flower’s insightful post, was not really that good for many Americans, For example any minorities, people with disabilities, many women, people who did not own land, immigrants, most of the rest of the world etc. The 60’s made some really good changes with the efforts of some very brave people. The problem is that when people have a black and white view of history and the world they miss the color of reality.
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Great conversation here…..and at the end of the day, all of us will stand individually before Jesus, The Christ, and give an account to the LORD. Our husbands will not be there covering us, nor will we be standing there corporately so as to rely on others for our faith. We will be standing there individually, His Face to our face, so each individual must have their own relationship with the only One who saves, Jesus.
God calls all of those who will listen, whether male or female, to accomplish His prophecies concerning all events leading up to Jesus’ Second Coming….and the corporate church is getting side tracked with vain and non-Gospel issues.
Does our Holy Father, who are in Heaven, really care about the color “pink”, or that fancy landscaping around an edifice, or having a hymnal with our names engraved on them? Or does He care about the temple of the Holy Spirit, which is our bodies, His living stones as Scriptures call us.
Perhaps the institutional churches of today do not care about the souls and final destinations (heaven or hell) of man, the internals of man so to speak, but instead primarily focus on the externals. Appearances can be quite deceptive!
Ultimately, it is prudent and wise to cling too and follow Jesus and His ways, for He is the Head of the ekklesia, the called out ones, and the Head of every man of which we can all humbly submit too.
Oh, what a Savior we have!
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Michaela,
That is what God wants. He wants us to give. He never said it had to be to the church.
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I agree with the comment that Ken should take a week and care of his own kids and home. His wife needs a vacation.
What a self-centered, entitled man. This is not a loving marriage; this is a master-slave, or a boss-employee relationship.
And frankly if Ken thinks she’s that bad, he should just fire her…and do her a favor. Who wants to be in a miserable job where your boss berates you all the time?
Next.
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brian,
Julie Anne is somewhat of an expert on freejinger and Doug Phillips.
Take a look at her archives.
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Katy,
Well said! At the end of the day we stand alone before Jesus.
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Funny thing happened on the way to the corn field……gracious here, Brenda for the kindness you show EVERYONE here on this particular internet forum, I have great respect for this character trait…. you are truly salt of this earth. Since focusing only on the Gospels of Jesus, instead of the penned writings of man, it has been so incredibly easy and delightful all at the same time to see the ridiculous foolishness that lies in the hearts and minds of dominionist religion. I choose not to call it Christianity for in the midst of self appointed lords of our lives, there should be only one Person/God in the flesh, Jesus, that should be our preeminence. In this culture of what is labeled as Christianity, I find more “Jesus moments” and “Jesus people” outside of churchianity, than I do within the walled confinements and fancy refinements.
And what I have found so unbelievably fascinating, it this, and please all of you, correct me if I fell off of the John Deere combine here; is that in our modern culture, it is so easy to fit in with religion when the individual speaks of “God” or “a godlike manifestation”. Then when you mention the wondrous and Glorious Name of Jesus and His teachings, and are truly excited about what He is showing you, the reactions of the churched, within the churched are “oooh, you’re one of those religious weirdos!” And one more bushel for the road here…..what I have found to be truly moving and touching in my new life as His child, is that rich, growing, and joyful fellowship with another born again believer in the likes of Walmart, the local grocery store, here on the internet, over the telephone, or at a football game, ie, the public forum. Oh, what freedom there is to be able to proclaim Jesus and His Wondrous Words without the big brother, all-seeing eye looking over your shoulder.
“Not by might, nor by power, but by His Spirit, sayeth the LORD.”
“Where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is freedom.”
As this body is peppered with dirt and dust daily, I love the salt of this earth that our LORD puts before me with such amazing grace and mercy! Oh, what a Savior, that He should love us so.
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I accept the premise that there are indeed rebellious wives, mothers, and women in general. There are rebellious people who are horrible, selfish spouses. There are women who don’t have a job, sit at home, don’t do a dang thing, nag and emasculate their husbands. And then there are men that sit around and don’t do anything either and are worthless husbands.
What I reject the most of his article is the premise that the man is a wimp because his wife has a perceived problem. . Because real men force their rebellious wives to obey through their pure strength apparently, in his world. Read between the lines. He is really saying, “If you want to be a real man like me, you better get that woman in line.” He doesn’t offer a solution because the one he has in the back of his mind would get him in some serious trouble.
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The first quoted paragraph from Alex’s write-up brought to mind this delicious little story from Norway.
http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/authors/asbjornsenmoe/husbandmindhouse.html
I first encountered it in animated form on TV, from the Japanese-made series “Tales of Magic”. I wish I could find it online — it was hilarious. It was one of my first exposures to the ridiculous nature of male chauvinism.
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BTDT,
One family therapist (not nouthetic) that I’ve read would say something very similar. According to him, a lot of men who have immature ideas of relationships want a woman who behaves very much like an indulgent mother — someone who’ll pamper him, attend to his every need, and then leave him alone. The notion of consideration for a wife’s or girlfriend’s needs isn’t even on their radar.
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Off Topic:
There is a very bad article on child sexual predators on the Gospel Coalition website. The author, Deepak Reju, claims that most perpetrators are single. Wrong! Most are married. Unfortunately comments aren’t allowed on the article.
http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/can-we-identify-those-who-prey-on-our-children
TRUTH: Most child molesters are married (or have been married).
My ex-husband has admitted to having 50 child and adolescent sexual abuse victims during the time we were married. He was also attracted to women. He was a trusted member of the church and even spoke on marriage communication at our very conservative church. No one would have guessed. (I’ve told my story on Spiritual Sounding Board.) Even I didn’t know what he was doing until evidence was shoved in my face. He wasn’t creepy; he was a very popular friendly guy. We looked great on the outside. Nice home, good job, two kids.
It is very well known that marrieds are more likely to sexually abuse children than singles. Just look at the academic literature.
(And yes, my ex-husband went through a court-approved sex offender program. He was considered treatment failure, despite years of participation. Pedophilia never goes away.)
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“Husbands Who Want to Correct Their Rebellious Wives”
When I saw that headline, the first thing I thought of was “Christian Domestic Discipline(TM)”, AKA “Papa SPANK!”
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@Daisy:
One long-ago comment was a preacher saying how Church Attendance in America peaked in 1953. Didn’t mention that the culture of the time required church attendance to be respectable.
And The Sixties(TM) future-shocked just about everybody, upsetting “the way it’s always been”. Hence the reaction to try to turn the clock back, much like Extreme Islam trying to “return to the Days of the Prophet.” Listen to this famous TV theme for an example:
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@BTDT:
Pinkie Pie would agree. Here’s the most infamous scene from the MLP episode where she foal-sat her employers’ month-old foals:
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You’re right, Anon3, that is a bad article. I, too, noticed that no comments were allowed. I guess we’re not allowed to disagree? I discussed the article on my personal FB page a few days ago and have been collecting information for a blog post.
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That is a “delicious” story, Serving! What a perfect fit for this post.
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Larry said:
Yup, that’s exactly what I was thinking.
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When I read of this article… I thought the words “overworked” or “stressed out” are more applicable than “rebellious” and the other husband totally got it when he walked in his wife’s shoes. The wife of the controlling husband should leave him with the kids for a weekend and see how he does. if the wife is stressed, what is the husband doing to help her out? Does he ever do any housework? My husband is a lot like the difficult one in that he just does not get the overworked/busy thing when my kids were small. What kills me….is that the partriarchal types on only want a LOT of children, they also want their baby breeder to HOMESCHOOL all of them. Really? How about keeping it in your pants until the house/children are in order????
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Daisy’s comment on husbands needing to get to the gym, beyond being closer to the truth than I’d like to admit personally, illustrates a big trap we can fall into–arguing over relative difficulty of our lives rather than what expectations husbands and wives ought to have for one another (Biblically speaking), and what ought to motivate us in our marriages.
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Sometimes my wife apologises for the state of the house. I remind her that I did not marry her for her housekeeping! She is smart, sweet, and good to me and our children. She is such a blessing to me.
Although I hate much of contemporary culture, I don’t see how treating one’s wife like a child accomplishes anything other than create resentment, and stifle another human being’s God-given talents.
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Bike Bubba: Excellent point apropos relative difficulties. It is pretty hard to appreciate the challenges another person faces, because no two people are identical in abilities/situations.
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Katy,
I love your down home, farmin’ speak. Don’t you ever change. Most of all I love the way you speak of Jesus. A lot of people speak of God, but they have yet to meet Jesus.
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KB,
Amen! Your wife is a fortunate woman and I’m sure vice-versa.
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HUG: I used to watch All In The Family when I was a kid.
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@ Anon 3.
From the page you linked to:
I posted some information here or the other site a week or two ago that show there’s a lot of married men who molest kids. Some of them hide behind having a wife and bio kids of their own as cover to molest other people’s kids.
From Crisis Connections site (crisisconnectioninc .org):
Pedophilia and Child Sexual Molestation
Some unmarried men molest kids, but then, so do many married ones.
As singles did not out-number married people until this year or the last, it would stand to reason that a greater number of child molesters are married, since (until recently) there were more married people.
There is nothing intrinsic about being married that makes a person less likely to commit sexual sin or child abuse.
A lot of Christians incorrectly believe if a man is married, he must be getting his sexual urges met regularly with a wife, and therefore has no need or interest in viewing porn, using call girls, or having affairs (or molesting kids). Which is all untrue.
There are many news articles about the high percentage of MARRIED (and Christian!) men who are porn users or addicts, and who cheat on their wives.
This is from ProvenMen site (other sites are carrying this information too):
How many times have I seen testimonies on Christian TV shows where they interview a married couple where a wife says she almost left her Christian spouse because he spent all his free time down in the basement looking at porn on the computer? It seems like those kinds of testimonies are on once or more per week.
About three weeks ago, there was the grossest article I ever read where a journalist interviewed a guy in his 40s who says he’s been sexually attracted to horses since a kid. He regularly has sex with a pet horse of his at least once a month. AND this guy is married to a human female who KNOWS about his sick sexual habit, and she stays with him.
So Christians need to stop being naive and assuming that the state of being married magically washes away any and all sexually perverted behavior and proclivities, because it sure as heck does not.
Almost every week on certain Christian news sites, and just from checking Yahoo News and other sites, I see reports of married Christian men (and often, they even work as preachers, church pianists, elders, youth preachers, Sun. school teachers) who get arrested for using/making child porn, molesting kids, or soliciting prostitutes.
Then you have, every few months, a major mega church (married) preacher who gets in the news for having affairs on his wife.
This is from www. wbtv.com, September 2014:
I come across stories like that one every so often, about Bible reading, church-going “Christian” men who are married, but it turns out they are abusive and/or perverted monsters.
And still the majority of evangelicals and other Christians want to think that being married is necessary to sanctify a person, and they keep demonizing adult singles and assuming singles are perverts.
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@ missdaisyflower:
More like, women like strong alpha males and think being abused is hot, so keep hitting her and she’ll stay with you forever.
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I guess my husband is one of those “wimpy men”. While we were dating, I was in a very difficult place with my family and my job, and he would come every day (20 miles both ways) to see me, let me vent to him, discuss and troubleshoot whatever problems I was having, make sure I had a nourishing meal, and treat me like gold. After we were married and I was pregnant, my family was mad at both of us and he not only dealt with their antics, but also cooked for me up to 6 times a day, washed and folded my laundry, made sure I got adequate fresh air and sunshine, bought me clothes, did health research to help me with morning sickness and other chronic illnesses, did the dishes, kept the house clean, worked his very demanding job as a ranch manager, and hung out with me and made me a smoothie when I woke up starved at 2 AM more times than I can count. He also very sweetly met my emotional needs and maintained a best-friendship with his 16-year-old daughter while defending her from the attacks of his very nasty ex. Pretty much a wimp, as any rational person can plainly gather.
I have tried, jokingly, to teach him how to be a patriarch, and it just doesn’t work. He treats me as his full equal no matter what I do. After I had our baby and began healing, I wanted to “earn my keep” and make the house to look “perfect”. He said, “Babe, you used to not care about how the house looked. And that was so cool!”
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I am a failure at house keeping. This post makes me so very grateful for my kind, understanding husband who believes the best in me regardless of my lack of skill at home management, and helps out when he gets a chance. I love him very deeply, and I’m pretty sure it would kill me if he assumed the worst about my character just because I have no idea how to make the million tiny tasks involved in house keeping fit together in a way that remotely makes sense. Love “bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.” These men should believe better about their wives than assuming they are lazy and rebellious. 😦
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After all, how can ten women with half the facts not come up with the right answers?
You know….This guy….I can’t even….
Why does he have an audience? Why?
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ND48,
There’s a cool website of an understanding lady (Marla) in North Carolina (she loves Fly Fishing) called http://www.flylady.net
She wasn’t a natural neat freak and struggled with things getting out of control. She’s got great step-by-step instructions (it’s all free, little assignments, divides the home into zones, house blessings, decluttering, and self-care). If you don’t accomplish something this time, just pick up where you are and continue. No frenetic pace or perfectionism.
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“caused her “public humiliation” by torturing her in the nude in front of an open window at the couple’s home.”
In ANY form of public humiliation – I never saw anything like this but I have seen people belittle their partners in public, the shame is, IMO, always on the one who cause humiliation, never on the one humiliated. Those who publicly humiliate are evil.
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Retha,
Those who publicly humiliate are evil.
So true.
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I did a quick Bible search and I could not find the term “Rebellious wife.” The ‘perfect’ wife is just another extra-Biblical notion raised to the status of Biblical law to try to make us feel guility for not following their version of Christianity.
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I’ve been praying that some Christians would kindly call Lori and Ken to task about the many extra-biblical and idolatrous things they write concerning marriage and family. I have personally commented on their blog about some things, but Lori will quickly delete any comments that don’t line up with her interpretations or opinions. In other words, my comments were quickly deleted.
Praise God that someone with a platform like this is finally on to Lori and Ken. Therefore, unbelievers will at least know that not all Christians believe and promote the stuff that Lori and Ken spew. Lori and Ken do an incredibly poor job of representing Christ’s relationship with his church.
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@RebeccaN:
Proverbs 31 Woman(TM) as Perfect Wife is a common standard in such cases.
According to Rachel Held Evans, in Jewish practice Proverbs 31 is a song of praise sung by husbands to their wives, calling them “Women of Valor.”
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Rebecca: see 1 Samuel 20:30. Saul calls Jonathan’s mother (his wife) a perverse, rebellious woman. The word “woman” (which also means wife in Hebrew) isn’t there, apparently, but the ending on “rebellious” is feminine, and Saul is obviously referring to a woman in the context.
Make what you will of it, as I am not about to say that the rantings of a man plagued by demons (Saul) has the right to talk to modern women in any regard–or men for that matter. :^)
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And that Proverbs 31 woman was a woman who worked outside the home…..something some folks manage to avoid mentioning…..
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@HUG
“Pinkie Pie would agree. Here’s the most infamous scene from the MLP episode where she foal-sat her employers’ month-old foals”
For some reason that reminded me of my brief foray into cloth diapering. I spent weeks researching the best type to use within our budget and how to keep them clean. I wanted to save us the $20+ per week spent on disposables. I also wanted to be more “self-sufficient” and environmentally conscious.
I actually got pretty good at it through baby number two. Right before baby number three was due, my husband asked if I would go back to using disposables. I was perplexed and a little hurt. That was until I explained his request to my neighbor. She asked if my husband liked to help with diaper duty. He does. She told me that was probably why. It was no trouble to go back to disposables to have his participation in the baby care. 🙂
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My dad was always the control guy. My mother slaved until her spirit broke, bending over backwards to try and keep her house and 7 young children in line to his standards. She had 7 kids in 10 years – we were all terrorized by my dad into being perfect little mannequins who never actually acted like children in his presence, lest we get a loud, ferociously shouted verbal slap down or a harsh ‘disciplinary’ spanking for even minor infractions. Not only his wife but all his children were ‘rebellious’ if we weren’t perfectly orderly, quiet and ‘respectful’ at all times, doing everything he thought should be done in exactly the way and at the time he thought we should be doing it. Mistakes were not allowed; they meant we weren’t listening and obeying properly.
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That sounds like an emotional prison, Kagi. I’m so sorry you had to endure that.
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Kagi,
Your fathers actions would have caused rebellion. There is no keeping a person like that happy. Their standards will always be too high. My hope is that you were all able to turn your lives around for the better. ((((HUGS))))
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Just saw your post Julie Anne, and I certainly can see the concerns you express with the fear of a controlling husband in the name of love. If you read enough of what I write, without a present bias, you will find that I am quite against either controlling, or being controlled, for either husband or wife.
The Wimpy Husband’s post is in a context that you fail to carry over to your readers. It deals with a subset of Christian marriages where a wife is indeed regularly rebellious and difficult. Are you wiling to say you do not know any such wife? One who is quite selfish and controlling of her husband? If you know of none who fit this description, your world is quite small. As my posts say, I deal with such marriages where men are at the end of their rope dealing with a difficult and undisciplined wife.
Your concerns are understood, but in my case unfounded. I am quite opposed to a husband controlling his wife, and just as opposed to a wife controlling her husband. If a husband gets home late each night from the job, then has to get up early each morning to get the three kids off to school because his wife wants to sleep in, is it controlling for a husband to say, “No more.” To demand that his wife act responsibly when she is a SAHM and allowing him only 5-6 hours a night sleep? That is just one of many things I heard this week from another frustrated husband.
You may not like the idea of a rebellious wife, but when I use it I am referring to a truly undisciplined person, not just some disagreements between a husband and a wife. Just as there are husbands out there that can make your blood boil, so too there are wives, even Christian ones, who will admit that they lack self-discipline and are selfish, yet cannot seem to be able to grow up. For most, the solution is to separate or divorce, but for Christian husbands who truly take their responsibility to “love their wives as Christ loves the church,” such husbands are accountable to lead their wife in such a way that they can some day present her sanctified before the Lord. This was my journey, and by God’s grace, not by my control, God honored my sacrificial love and turned my difficult wife into a wife of my dreams. There is no controlling just good leadership that focused on doing things according to God’s Word, and that includes learning to set standards and ask for accountability. The part played by the wife is willful submission, not coerced or manipulated. It is a simple process of a husband no longer being controlled by his difficult wife while at the same time asking her to grow up in the areas she needs to grow.
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Ken, what is this:
” It deals with a subset of Christian marriages where a wife is indeed regularly rebellious and difficult. ”
I’m having difficulty with any husband calling a wife “rebellious.” Ive seen focus on this a good bit on your blog. I wonder if you can flesh out for me what “sacrificial love” looks like.
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Ken and Julie Anne
I find a few things wrong with this. First and foremost, your wife is not your child. And yes I do indeed see manipulation based on the various sentences as worded.
Since a husband perceives his wife to be undisciplined and rebellious, my first question would be:
“What in the hell did YOU do TO her to make her that way? It’s your job to make her happy, and if she ain’t happy, it is YOUR FAULT.
Ken, YOU formed her to be what you wanted her to be, that is manipulation, there, buddy. In other words, she is not herself, she is your toy that you built to wind up, and do and say anything that you want her to do and say. I think that there is a Twilight Episode of that. God did not turn your wife into the wife of your dreams. You manipulated a situation. That’s how I read the words, especially when you said:
“If a husband gets home late each night from the job, then has to get up early each morning to get the three kids off to school because his wife wants to sleep in, is it controlling for a husband to say, “No more.” To demand that his wife act responsibly when she is a SAHM and allowing him only 5-6 hours a night sleep? That is just one of many things I heard this week from another frustrated husband.”
The first thing that I see in this is that you don’t have a clue as to WHY she wants to sleep in. You are just making assumptions that she is lazy, so you want to DEMAND something of her.
Speaking of DEMAND, a husband is served cornflakes for breakfast. The husband DEMANDS a hot breakfast from his wife. The wife tells him, “If you want a hot breakfast, set fire to your cornflakes.”
So, there is NO COMMUNICATION/CONVERSATION going on here. Where is the question “Baby, are you OK? What can I do to help?”, but instead, you want God to changer her???????? Your demand to say, “NO MORE” is out of line in my opinion. I am a former sailor, and I used to get 4 to 5 hours of sleep when we were out to sea, so 5-6 hours is sleeping in for me!! Can you take as much stress as an average sailor out to sea? YOU seem to be missing in the relationship of intimacy, and I am not discussing sex, or even romance. If you can’t just communicate without demanding, then she is not happy with you, and that isn’t her fault. Do you see where I am going with this? Remember the old cliche’? If she strays, it’s because you ain’t doing something right? But you want God to change her? Are you kidding me?
So, when you get home, there seems to be no, “Hey, honey, how was your day?” type of conversations? But I will bet that there was some kind of communication of “Wheres my dinner, why is there laundry still in the washer, how come the bicycle is laying in the yard…, who didn’t flush the toilet, yada, yada, yada.”
NO HUSBAND SHOULD DEMAND ANYTHING FROM HIS WIFE.
It reminds me of seeing television shows where the husband demands that his wife get him another beer. I hated seeing ANY husband demanding anything, or talking degrading to his wife. I have witnessed husbands demanding their wives before, in my presence, and it was disgusting, and I was terrified for the wife, who happened to be my childhood friend. I told her outside of his presence that I hated how he spoke to her.
Sorry, Ken, but I don’t buy into your doctrines to changing your wife into your dream girl. That’s like saying I’m gonna change my Saab into a Cadillac, all because the Saab keeps getting stuck in first gear. No man should ever change a woman, no woman should ever change a man. If the compatibility isn’t there at the beginning, date another girl, for crying out loud.
Second, it’s not any husbands responsibility to PRESENT HIS WIFE TO THE LORD! Why? Because the husband is also a wife to the Lord to be presented to the Lord. WHO presents the HUSBAND TO BE THE “WIFE” OF CHRIST? Hmmm?
Ed
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Ken, you said:
for Christian husbands who truly take their responsibility to “love their wives as Christ loves the church,” such husbands are accountable to lead their wife in such a way that they can some day present her sanctified before the Lord.
I found many things in both the article that you wrote, which Julie Anne was kind enough to link here,and in your post here that wreak of a misunderstanding of male headship. The comment above is just one of them. When the judgment comes I, as a woman, will stand before the Lord just as a man will. I will not be PRESENTED before the Lord. I will stand before Him to answer for my actions in this world alone just as a man will. There is no marriage in Heaven. We all go as individuals. This statement shows a patriarchal view point, but nothing Biblical.
In your blog post you carry on about what wives say about their husbands in their Bible study groups and what they bring home as a result of those conversations. I have never attended a Ladies Bible study group where this type of conversation ever took place. You seem to have a prejudice where women are concerned and feel that men need to fix us.
Marriage is meant to be a partnership, 2 people working together, praying together, no one being in control but Jesus.
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Ken,
Headship. Notice the way that Jesus represents Headship in this tiny example:
When the husband states to his wife: “Don’t worry about a thing, baby, I got it under control.”
That is headship. That is what submitting to Jesus is all about: “Relax, I got your back!”. You submit to FREEDOM. Ever wonder why America is known to be the land of FREEDOM? It is modeled after Christ who set us free from bondage of being told what to do by the TASKMASTER HUSBAND.
If you know what it is to submit to Christ, he isn’t a task master. Christians are NOT considered to even be servants. Jesus calls us friends. Jesus is a friend to your wife, and you shouldn’t forget that. She doesn’t get to God thru you. She gets to God thru Jesus, just like everyone else. You are not her Holy Spirit.
And since SHE is a bride of Christ, then you had better be A FRIEND to your wife, and not a task master to her. No one demands anything from a friend.
John 15:15
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Ed
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Ken says his Wimpy Husbands post “deals with a subset of Christian marriages where a wife is indeed regularly rebellious and difficult.” Well, we can all be difficult, but rebellion can occur only where the person rebelling is under the authority of the one against whom they rebel. Christian relationship are to be founded on love, not authority. Ken is no doubt an exemplary husband. However, for him to subscribe to the notion that a wife can be in rebellion against her husband proves that his views regarding marriage are based on misogynistic principles–principles one would expect to find in Islam, but never in the teachings of Jesus.
And what’s this business about thinking it perfectly reasonable to expect a wife to get herself the gym? One would not be surprised to find such expectations in a husband with a secret addiction to pornography. At best, a husband who expects his wife to be spending time at the gym has been looking too intently at women to whom he is not married.
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Thank for your response Julie Anne,
If you read the post and the follow-up post you will see that I am referencing with “rebellious wives” a small group of four wives who are married to four husbands who were seeking help with their wives bad behavior. I personally spoke to three of the husbands at length on the phone last year, a number of times each, and got a similar story. Hence the post.
You have a partial list of bad behaviors, some of which you reposted, but when a wife seems to either purposefully make life difficult for her husband, or selfishly is unwilling to even try to regularly please him, then cusses him out with foul language, no matter how many times he asks her not to speak that way in front of the children, what word would you use to describe this wife? As I asked you above, have you never come across a wife or husband like that? They come in both sexes, but the post was specific to addressing wives because it is a blog by a woman and for Christian women. And yes, all four of these wives claimed to be Christian, but one was no longer sure.
As for what does it mean to be a husband who sacrificially loves his wife, as Christ loves the church, I can tell you my story and what I teach other Christian husbands. Love is everything written in I Corinthians 13 and a husband’s job is two-fold. First, a husband must seek to please his wife and serve her. Sacrifice involves service and putting your wife and family above one’s own desires. I have regularly worked 55 hour weeks for more than 30 years to insure that my wife could realize her dream of being a SAHM, and also meet with what we both believe God’s Word teaches for our family. She took on most of the home duties and I chipped in with the kids as necessary. In my case, when our fourth was conceived came her long 25 year battle with various illnesses, most of them likely brought on by a major car accident that Lori was in. The broken neck and coxis seemed to lead to a lifetime of my caring for a sick wife and trying to raise a family. I reduced my work travel but continued to work 50-60 hours a week, but also I filled in where Lori simply could not as she writhed in pain many days and nights every year in bed. Working from home helped me contribute in major ways to family life and I had no lack of opportunity for showing sacrificial love to my wife and family.
Don’t get me wrong, Lori was still “superwoman” in my mind. It was amazing what she could do even in pain and miserable, but 18 doctors later we still had few solutions to her problems. My sacrificial love meant doing whatever was necessary, and I became a good cook and father to my children. I rarely complained about being overworked or underappreciated, as it was what God had called me to in life. What I complained about was that my wife seemed to always want things done her ways, and I never felt like I measured up to please her. Through her illnesses, we had many highs and lows, good times and not so good, but no matter how hard I tried I seemed to always fall short in pleasing her or being able to bond fully with her. She was loved by everyone around her, as was I, but together we seemed to be oil and water, never seeming to mesh as we should.
So you tell me, what more would you want from a husband who loves his wife sacrificially? Perhaps stick by her side when she suffers through neck fusion and two brain surgeries and recoveries? Hold her tight and tell her it will be OK when she is writhing in pain when she would rather die? Take her to one doctor’s appointment after another and sleep in the chair beside her after each operation and emergency room visit? Although I was not perfect in my love, this is what I call a husband’s sacrificial love and service.
But I suggest that such love goes beyond the serving and sacrifice to another ideal clearly delineated in the scriptures; that a husband’s role is to sanctify his wife. One of my daughters is married one year today and she tweets of her husband that “he sanctifies me and makes me want to be more like Jesus.” She gets it for a young age, something not taught today. Christian husbands are taught that they are only to “love” their wives, and such love is always giving in to her feelings and desires, making her feel good without regard to helping her grow up in Christ. The Christian wife also has a similar role of sanctification of her husband, but the roles are to be played out differently. For the husband he is to lead his wife and for the wife she is to follow and “win him without a word.” God says this, not me.
Hopefully this will dispel that somehow Ken Alexander is a controlling, difficult husband as nothing could be further from the truth. My wife gets 99% of what she wants so long as what she wants is not in turn controlling towards me. She is no longer controlling, so my life is no longer on a treadmill of chasing down her desires.
Do you realize that rebellious and difficult wives are indeed controlling as they manipulate their husbands to be doing many things they prefer not to do, especially in picking up the broken pieces of their bad behaviors. Neither spouse should be controlling in any way, but if one is married to a difficult wife who is attempting to control him by her moods and behaviors, and to this a Christian husband must be like Christ and say “No, you are to follow my good behavior, not me follow your perceived needs and desires, most of which may come from a set of lies of the world and false childhood perceptions.”
We are not part of the patriarchy movement, nor do I like the manosphere, or believe in either of them. We do see a big need to address a crisis in Christian marriages where husbands are taught to ONLY sacrificially love, without being taught the ultimate goal that both husband and wife are to sanctify each other and grow up together to be like Christ. This sometimes means a husband has to learn how to help his wife learn to love and serve, and to grow up. If you think all wives already have it all together, and none are difficult or rebellious, then you live on Mars. I am dealing with real life, and from today’s couple of comments, already have one more request from a husband for help with his difficult wife. She just scolded him for something he didn’t do, and that is a regular everyday occurrence of control.
So my advice will be, set a standard in his home that all that is done must be Christian, and that includes not controlling a spouse, OR being controlled by one. I hope this helps give you have a clearer picture of where we are coming from, and how Lori’s ministry is powerfully helping hundreds of couples each day live out marriage God’s ways. Anything that is unloving, controlling or unchristian must go so that Christ can be the center of the marriage.
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Ken said:
“when a wife seems to either purposefully make life difficult for her husband, or selfishly is unwilling to even try to regularly please him, then cusses him out with foul language, no matter how many times he asks her not to speak that way in front of the children, what word would you use to describe this wife? As I asked you above, have you never come across a wife or husband like that? They come in both sexes, but the post was specific to addressing wives because it is a blog by a woman and for Christian women.”
My response:
It’s not her fault. If she is cussing her husband out, he deserved it. The mens default here is to always blame the wife for rebellion, but those men need to look in the mirror and find out what they did to cause the wife to cuss him out with foul language in front of the children in the first place.
Try slamming your fingers in a car door. Does the word “ouch” really come to mind? No, it doesn’t. Cussing is the least of your worries, Ken. Your relationship is the utmost importance, and if your wife is cussing you out, you deserve it. Find out why she is, change YOURSELF, not her, and then she will stop cussing.
Got it? What kind of a blog is needed for that kind of advice, huh?
Why do you want to change others, but not have the husbands find out what’s wrong with them by first looking in the mirror to see what they can change inside of them, first? Christian men do not go about changing their wives to suit them. That is nonsense.
Ed
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Oh, my goodness, you just got to love this one:
Ken states:
“My sacrificial love meant doing whatever was necessary, and I became a good cook and father to my children. I rarely complained about being overworked or underappreciated, as it was what God had called me to in life. What I complained about was that my wife seemed to always want things done her ways, and I never felt like I measured up to please her. ”
Sacrificial love includes complaining that the wife wants things done her way?
Can you imagine what the wife feels like in regards to her husbands “DEMANDS”? She never measures up.
POT/KETTLE THERE KEN.
You would think that you would have a new found COMPASSION for your wife for the crap that she has to put up with, with you. BUT NO…You want God to change her to your wind up toy.
Very interesting stuff, to say the least.
Ed
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Ken states:
“Christian husbands are taught that they are only to “love” their wives, and such love is always giving in to her feelings and desires, making her feel good without regard to helping her grow up in Christ. The Christian wife also has a similar role of sanctification of her husband, but the roles are to be played out differently. For the husband he is to lead his wife and for the wife she is to follow and “win him without a word.” God says this, not me.”
My response:
win him without a word, huh? By what context is that in the Bible? Is it for two believing spouses? I think not, Ken. If one is a believer and if one is not, THEN that applies. God said THAT, not yours.
Second, So, no emotion in love? No warm and fuzzy? No spouse has any responsibility to sanctify the other spouse. What Bible do you use?
Ed
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Ed,
1) The wife is cussing at a wimpy husband, not one who deserves her wrath. She cusses and curses him because she is an unhappy person with her husband, and often this stems from a poor relationship with her father, but it can have many reasons. The bottom line is she is responsible for her behavior no matter what, just as he is responsible for his behavior no matter what. You can’t violate the context then say she is right when the facts say she is wrong. This is a set of real stories, not something that is hypothetical. No one is slamming the door on a wife’s fingers but rather trying to be helpful and getting blistered for never measuring up. If you want to write a post about husbands who slam their wives fingers because that has happened to you, go for it. That is not these cases.
2) Again Ed, the husband is making zero demands except to ask his wife to act responsibly. The husbands here are not being controlling or demanding but trying to create peace, and seeking advice as to how to come out from under their wife’s control. I understand a wife who responds negatively to a demanding and controlling husband, especially one who claims to be Christian, but that is not the example given in the original post. These men are far from being controlling. Remember, by there own admission they are wimps and are being controlled by her moods and demands. .
3) Please restudy the verse, “Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they see your respectful and pure conduct” (I Peter 3:1-2). Notice it says the husband is “disobedient to the Word,” not that he is unsaved.
So you are wrong on three counts. It is obvious that you have an preset bias and agenda and no amount of truth will probably change your mind. Just try to not read everything we write through your rose colored glasses. There are obviously both husbands and wives who are wrong and have bad behavior. I will be happy to join with you on calling out the bad behavior of any Christian husband. Don’t be so sensitive that you are unwilling to do the same with rebellious and difficult Christian wives.
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And you believed those husbands without having the opportunity to talk to the wives? That’s telling.
It sounds like the wife is angry and it makes me wonder what is going on in that home/marriage that makes a wife so angry. Is the husband really loving his wife or using his pseudo version of love. I’ll bet if I could talk with the wives of the 3 husbands myself I’d find a different story.
I cant’ say that I have run into the wives that you describe. But if you are saying that men can be like that, would you use the term “rebellious” about them? For some reason, I suspect you might not.
If his wife is pleased, she is not going to respond in anger/cussing. I just don’t buy it, Ken. So, your version of pleasing her is probably not lining up with her version of pleasing and there is a disconnect.
Dude . . do you realize how arrogant you sound? I don’t know that I’d consider that sacrificial love – that’s part of your marriage vows, isn’t it? To love in sickness and in health? I snipped some out of the paragraph, but notice all of the me, me, me. Disgusting.
That’s not sacrificial love. That’s your job, buddy.
I’m sure you get a lot of mileage with that one.
Ken, answer me about “rebellious” husbands, please. Rebellious puts you in an authority position OVER your wife. That is not yours to have. Did you ever read in the Bible that you are also to submit to Lori?
But you’re friends with Robert and Amanda who espouse the same garbage you do. I’m not buying it, sorry.
There you go again – you think it is your job to control her by telling her how to grow up. Do you not see how you are talking? You sure have a sense of entitlement in your marriage. Sacrificial love and loving your wife like Christ loves the church does not look like entitlement.
I am fully convinced by what you described here and on your blog that YOU are the center of your marriage and family.
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So husbands have “bad behavior” and wives are “rebellious?” Is that how you word it?
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Gary W.
Here are the synonyms for Rebellious and rebellion can be to a convention or situation and not just authority: defiant, disobedient, insubordinate, unruly, mutinous, wayward, obstreperous, recalcitrant, intractable. These fit what is being displayed by the wives in question.
If one is a Believer in Jesus Christ they come under His Lordship. Christianity is not a club we join with no preset rules or standards to follow. We are to please our LORD Jesus and as such be obedient to His Word.
The rebellious wife goes beyond the difficult wife as she hardly tries to regularly please the Lord with her marriage, nor her husband. There are many reasons why a wife might become rebellious, but most of it is learned behavior. Sin is the root cause. Go see how Mom was with Dad and watch the sins of one generation be passed along to another, unto the third generation.” Sometimes it is Dad’s mistreatment of her, or psychological issues, fears, or just plain selfishness may border on narcissism. It happens on both sides of a marriage, but the post is for Wimpy Christian husbands married to rebellious wives who claim to be Christians. As such, they both have the authority of the Lordship of Christ and of God’s Word that they fall under. And God’s Word clearly places the husband as “head” of his wife to whom she is to be submissive. You cannot get around that.
So I have shown you three authorities she is being rebellious to. Take your pick, but she is acting in a rebellious manner, because she claims Christ as her Lord. If she is not a Christian than the authority of Christ and of her husband disappears, but she still is under God’s authority, and her behavior does not live up to the minimum standards of even a non-Christian marriage.
“Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9).
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?” (Luke 6:46).
Lastly, you must be from a part of the country that does not value health and staying in shape. This has nothing to do with porn, but wanting a healthy wife who is not regularly griping that she is too heavy. That’s right. The wife in the illustration is constantly griping about her weight be prefers Facebook to the gym. Yet you want to put this on the husband? What life circumstances do you come from that does not understand wanting your spouse to stay healthy? The husband actually likes his wife with some extra weight, but they both agree that 90 lbs overweight is a bit too much. I actually ask my wife to help me be accountable for staying under a certain weight as I don’t like to look or feel too heavy.
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Ken,
1. It’s not her fault that her husband is wimpy. He deserved her wrath. He needs to grow a pair, and make her happy. It is not her fault that she isn’t happy. The husband has a duty to PLEASE HIS WIFE. And if he isn’t pleasing her, then he deserves what he gets. Her relationship with her father is between her and her father. The husband is not to act like a father, but a husband. A husband is to cherish his wife, and take care of her, and whisper sweet nothings in her ear, etc. She is NOT HIS CHILD. So, I still stand by how I presented my case.
2. YOU are the one who used the word “demand”, NOT ask, for you said, “To demand that his wife act responsibly when she is a SAHM and allowing him only 5-6 hours a night sleep? That is just one of many things I heard this week from another frustrated husband.”
And now, you want to change it to the word ask? Creating peace means to NEGOTIATE, and that involves intimacy, i.e. communicating TO one another, not at one another, on a regular everyday occurrence. No one in a relationship should be creating peace ONE SIDED.
3. Your use of that was in conjunction with the word SANCTIFICATION, for you said: “The Christian wife also has a similar role of sanctification of her husband, but the roles are to be played out differently. For the husband he is to lead his wife and for the wife she is to follow and “win him without a word.” God says this, not me.”
It is discussing NON-BELIEVING SPOUSES, Ken. People are won to Christ, and that means that if they are not won to Christ, they are non-believers. LIKEWISE, your reference of 1 Peter 3 is discussing a NON-BELIEVING HUSBAND, otherwise, why would he need to be WON?
Let’s use scripture properly:
1 Cor 7:14
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
1 Peter 3:1-2 (KJV)
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
And, again, to be in SUBJECTION to your husband is the SAME as being in SUBJECTION to JESUS, and that is because the way that JESUS presents SUBJECTION is that HE (Jesus) states, “RELAX HONEY, I GOT YOUR BACK, DON’T WORRY, BABY, I HAVE CONTROL OF THE SITUATION”
The Bible does not say, “THOU SHALT NOT USE CUSS WORDS”. Man came up with that brainy idea. The Bible states to not swear, and that is in regards to an oath. And, the wife has all authority to be ANGRY at her husband. The husband isn’t the only one with that privilege.
So, I am not wrong on any count.
If the wife is upset, it ain’t her fault. Husbands, look in the mirror.
Ed
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Ed – – did I miss it? Did Ken say that husbands can be rebellious? Or does the rebellious word only pertain to wives who “misbehave?”
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Well, Julie Anne, you brilliantly cut through Ken’s thick fog of self-serving obfuscation. But don’t you know? A woman should never challenge a man in such a manner. You are in open rebellion.
Snark.
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Julie Anne,
That’s the point that I am trying to make, too. While he states that both sides have issues, the wife is the rebellious one, all due to the fact that the wife is to be in SUBJECTION to the husband whether or not he is a Christian or not. So, no matter what, HE IS BOSS OVER HER, so he has authority to boss her around, and so he is using 1 Peter 3:1-2 to show that.
Ed
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Can you believe it, Gary? JA in open rebellion displayed for all to see.
I’m sure Ken (and perhaps Robert) are shaking their head in disgust.
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Oh, I like this one, too:
Ken said:
” I actually ask my wife to help me be accountable for staying under a certain weight as I don’t like to look or feel too heavy.”
My comment:
So, Ken is putting the responsibility of his weight on his wife, so if he doesn’t lose weight, IT’S ALL HER FAULT. And, since this is a topic about spiritual stuff, then there must be a religious context in this somewhere, huh?
Ken, your weight is YOUR problem, not hers. Your wife is not your baby sitter.
Ed
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“Defiant, disobedient, insubordinate, unruly, mutinous, wayward, obstreperous, recalcitrant, intractable.” Sorry Ken, but you are making our point for us. Every one of these words can apply only to a relationship where one is the master, or person in authority, and the other is the servant. Every one of these words can apply only where one party has, or claims to have, the authority or right to impose their will on the other. Let me repeat: Relationships between Christians are to be based on Love and Love alone, never on the coercive exercise of authority. In defending your use of the word rebellion, you betray an attitude of ontological superiority over your wife.
As to the rest of the comment you direct my way, you seem oblivious to the fact that Jesus’ idea of headship is to lay down his life for us.Having done so, He invites but does not compel. He woos, but does not drive. If we would leave Him, he does not stop us, although he still pursues us. He simply does not exercise coercive authority. Though I will not convince you, you completely misconstrue Paul.
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Ken,
To be in SUBJECTION to Christ is like this:
TRUST, FAITH.
If your spouse loses trust or faith in a husband, it’s for a reason. It is because the husband has not proven himself to be trusted, and/or she has lost faith in her husband due to HIS OWN actions.
In Christ, we are in subjection to him by our faith and trust in him, and he never lets us down. But husbands do indeed let their wives down, all because they think that subjection gives the husbands authority to be a task master to his wife.
That is NOT what Jesus is all about, Ken.
Ed
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Sacrificial love does not seek to be praised or petted for its service. Might I suggest, Ken, that you get yourself a dog or two. You can reap an abundance of affection for a simple pat on the head. That’s really what you’re treating your wife like anyway — a dog. If my husband treated me like that I imagine I’d be a little hard to please too.
Newsflash, Ken — keeping a home and caring for a family is a thankless task. Get used to it.
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