Doug Phillips & Vision Forum, Homeschool Movement, Patriarchal-Complementarian Movement, Sexual Abuse/Assault and Churches, Vision Forum

Lourdes Torres, Alleged Victim in the Doug Phillips (Vision Forum) Sex Abuse Scandals Files Lawsuit

 

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Lourdes Torres, alleged victim in sex abuse scandal with Douglas Phillips of Vision Forum, has filed a lawsuit against Douglas Phillips

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The victim in the Doug Phillips sex abuse case has filed a lawsuit and in doing so, has chosen to publicly reveal her identity:  Lourdes Torres. She is one brave woman.  Go, Lourdes!

 

Vision Forum Lawsuit, Doug Phillips, Lourdes Torres, Sex Abuse Screen Shot 2014-04-15 at 8.19.29 AM

 UPDATE April 16, 2014. At the end of this post, we’ve added key facts and links to select news reports and blog articles. We plan to continue to grow these lists as opportunity allows.

World Net Daily has the full story and it is a long one with photos and lots of details.  In the first link below is the legal complaint:

In the complaint filed in Kendall County District Court in Texas Tuesday morning, Phillips is accused of using a woman named Lourdes Torres, now 29, as “a personal sex object” over a period of five years.

I was alerted on Sunday of another development – that Lourdes Torres (aka Victim) was married Friday evening to a former Boerne Christian Assembly member, Nolan Manteufel.

We first got a glimpse that something was up with this Facebook profile picture which was updated over the weekend:

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vision forum, Doug Phillips, Lourdes Torres, Lourdes Manteufel, Sex scandal

 

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The lawsuit gets into graphic detail.

***********Trigger alert – Sexual Content************

 

Here are graphic details in the complaint. Phillips claimed he didn’t know her Biblically.  The following paragraph shows that he knew her pretty darn well.  Scroll down to the line of asterisks to get beyond the graphic part.

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Doug Phillips Sex Abuse Lawsuit, Lourdes Torres Screen Shot 2014-04-15 at 8.14.49 AM

 

 

 

 

 

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My thoughts and prayers go to the Manteufels as they start their new life together and also as their private life will become very public. This is a very sad situation for all.

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UPDATE:   I had someone ask where they can send support or gift cards. I would be happy to try to organize this. Nolan or Lourdes or David Gibbs, if you are reading this and can contact me, I think there may be a lot of people who would like to offer support in a more tangible way.  ~Julie Anne (spiritualsb@gmail dot com)

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Links on the Lourdes Torres-Manteufel Lawsuit

Against Doug Phillips, Vision Forum, Inc., & Vision Forum Ministries

NOTE: This section has been moved to its own post.

NOTE: The extensive information that was on this page has been transferred to it’s own post. You will find it at Lourdes Torres-Manteufel vs. Doug Phillips Lawsuit Informational Resource Page. That post already expands what was previously here by at least a third, and will be updated daily for at least the next 7 to 10 days. It includes the following sections:

  • Preface
  • Key Facts
  • Official Court Documents and Other Statements
  • Plaintiff, Defendants, and Their Legal Counsels
  • Key Individuals in the Unfolding Story
  • Relevant Background Issues
  • Select Links to News Reports and Blog Posts
  • Historical Overview Posts
  • Potentially Relevant Legal Information
  • Other Research and Resource Pieces

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422 thoughts on “Lourdes Torres, Alleged Victim in the Doug Phillips (Vision Forum) Sex Abuse Scandals Files Lawsuit”

  1. Dear Lourdes,

    I’m amazed at your courage. You’ve already shown plenty by standing up to Phillips, and showing him that you wouldn’t take any more of his oppression and abuse. Now I’m so glad to finally know your name, and to hear that you’re working to make his true face known to all the world. I don’t envy you for having to relive your abuse in the press and in court, so I hope it keeps this evil man from mounting any kind of comeback in “ministry”.

    May you have God’s peace and protection with you throughout your ordeals, and may He surround you with love and support from your husband and all those who truly care for you.

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  2. From Ann’s comment, yesterday around noon:

    “This does not sound like any type of mutual physical pleasure. According to this account, this poor woman was totally being used solely as an object for his arousal.”

    Well, Douggie is a Christianese patrio-centrist, after all. And we all know how they hate for sex to be an “egalitarian pleasuring party”. (Douglas Wilson, I’m looking at you.)

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  3. Lourdes, as a victim of sexual abuse as a child, I know you have a long road to healing, and this is a great part of it. Over coming the “victim” mentality is hard (where you blame yourself for everything instead of placing the blame squarely on the perpetrator), and this is a great thing. Your lawsuit has also given me the courage to write and send a letter to my state homeschool group to ask that they stop inviting these pillars of the patriarchy movement to speak, especially those named in your lawsuit. I refuse to go to the conference or support our state group until they stop inviting them.

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  4. “You think Beall and the board were projecting much? Everything she claims will befall Lourdes is what will actually befall the Phillips family and VF. Lourdes is already married — so much for that threat.

    The nerve and outright evil in writing and sending that email to a young woman who was abused by Beall’s own husband is beyond belief.”

    Bridget,

    Like SGMwikileaks, we are getting a glimpse into “the inside of the teacup”. And not the image projected to the followers. And it is always a bit of a wakeup call for those who are already questioning the doctrine of the movement.

    In Bealls world, an unmarried young woman is unprotected unless her father is part of the group to protect her. Being in the group is her “protection” no matter what they have done. (This is the cultic part)

    Beall cannot separate herself and her personal position in this. If it hurts her, it is bad “for the group” no matter how it affects anyone else or how evil it is. Beall is “set apart” as wife of the great one. In Bealls world, Lourdes is expendable once outside the group and must be stopped at all costs.

    When people who have invested heavily into the group get a glimpse inside the real thinking in these groups, they often do not believe what they are seeing. Like the foot in the garbage. Or we see the all too often Flip Wilson defense: The devil made him do it. Be angry at the Devil. Not Phillips. He just fell and we all know that humans fall all the time…..blah blah blah. Never mind those abused children or groomed teens for the pleasure of the leader.

    That is sick and it is not Christianity. I pray we get more glimpses inside the movement. The real stuff —so more folks can see how fake it all is.

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  5. “Well, Douggie is a Christianese patrio-centrist, after all. And we all know how they hate for sex to be an “egalitarian pleasuring party”. (Douglas Wilson, I’m looking at you.)”

    Serving, you are right. This is exactly where Doug Wilson’s teaching on sex goes. It objectifies women as objects to be used for men’s pleasure. It is how Doug Phillips views women…..

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  6. Lourdes is doing amazing work educating the church about clergy sexual abuse. The publishing of the details alone will tell other people in similar situations what abuse sounds like and looks like. These abusers are all the same with their promises and manipulations.

    However, this education is not Lourdes’ responsibility. She needs to do this lawsuit for herself. We are the ones responsible for educating our individual church communities and the church as a whole as to what this abuse looks like. There were many who commented on this blog who originally called it an affair and said because she was over 18 that she was just as responsible. If you are one of those, I pray you now see what it looks like and sounds like. According to the linked WND article, Doug bragged about how he was a sponsor at her graduation. how she was a member of the family and traveled with them, and how she “personified the characteristics a Christian woman should possess.” He was her mentor and her counselor. His lines to her about how he would marry her and how she would be responsible for destroying him if she told are classic abuser lines.

    Take this information into your churches, demand your ministers receive training in clergy abuse, and remind yourself and others that ministers are not direct lines to God. You have that power yourself. They are human and fail. Often. And when someone comes forward, as Lourdes has done, give her support and believe her.

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  7. I wish we could edit – “there were many who commented on this blog” – not this blog post. If that makes sense. I did not compare names or even remember the names of those who called it an affair. I just know that many did.

    Lydia, good point about the objectification of women.

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  8. Beale may have claimed to put blame on the VM board by saying that they “encouraged her to contact Lourdes” to give an impression of backing of the board without the board’s knowledge. That is a possibility to consider and one can’t assume Beale is telling the truth but my hunch is that the board probably did encourage her to write to Lourdes. Possible systemic corruption running very deep. Very grievous.

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  9. “Douglas Wilson, I’m looking at you”
    All quiet on the Moscow front, this morning! Pastor Wilson!?!? Enemies of The Lord may be chortling with glee over these latest developments! What say you now? Still sticking with your “too much testosterone” theory? Dougie’s lawyers may want to use that one. He succumbed to the blandishments of stripper Foxy Bubbles or the sexual jiujitsu moves of Delilah! They can try that also! Since you were the very first to compare Dougie to King David, let me quote this passage about David’s son Amnon– Phillips version: II Sam 13:11a -13d “Come, lie with me, my sister.” She answered him, “No, my brother, do not violatea me, for such a thing is not done in Israel; do not do this outrageous thing. As for me, where could I carry my shame? And as for you, you would be as one of the outrageous fools in Israel. Now therefore, please speak to the king, for he will not withhold me from you.” Dougie answered her “I love you and will take care of you! What we are doing is not wrong! And if it is, it’s completely your fault! (For being so beautiful, doncha know)

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  10. We don’t really know that Beall sent Lourdes that email. I am sure that Doug has complete control of Beall – and her email account. For all we know he could have used Beall’s email account to send Lourdes that email.

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  11. Your lawsuit has also given me the courage to write and send a letter to my state homeschool group to ask that they stop inviting these pillars of the patriarchy movement to speak, especially those named in your lawsuit. I refuse to go to the conference or support our state group until they stop inviting them.

    This comment has intrigued me and keeps coming back in my mind. It makes me wonder: what can we do as a group to be a bullhorn and say NO to this nonsense?

    I think I will take a look at the groups listed in the legal complaint. Perhaps an open letter to conference leaders – – or specific conferences? I’m not sure. If you have any ideas, let me know.

    I’d be happy to post an open letter to homeschool convention leaders who promote patriarchy. That is where I was first introduced to this dangerous ideology and it was touted as God’s way of living. Now I know otherwise. It is a way to hold women and girls in bondage and oppression. And that oppression is: spiritual, emotional, physical, and sexual. This must stop. Please post your ideas.

    Lourdes, you coming out like this has been a wake-up call to many. It is putting a spotlight on the abuses of Patriarchy and may save lives (emotionally, spiritually, sexually). This is very important. Thank you!

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  12. Blessings to the newlyweds! I am overjoyed to hear of this great news! Grace, and strength, and prosperity to you both!! And may you find justice through this lawsuit. Thank you Lourdes, for attempting to stop this arrogant man from continuing his false teachings.

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  13. JA,

    I’m not sure if an open letter would work. So many people don’t see the “extremes” in this. Or they take the bits and pieces that they like (father being the “head” of the family), but don’t follow the “girls must never go to college” aspect. So you get the “Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater” thing. It’s a challenge, because I would go to convention, but not listen to the primary speakers, just the workshops. They tend to “lighten up” their message, I think, to try to appeal to more people at the conventions. I always went for curriculum and help with homeschooling, and a little parenting boost. (Thankful that my marriage has been good, and that our church offers parenting classes every now and then, so I didn’t *need* those things from convention.)

    Part of the thing is, this movement encourages large families and homeschooling. Well, when you have 7 kids 7 and under, it is VERY HARD to homeschool, and take care of your marriage, and keep up the house without some help. (I only have 3 kids, and it’s not easy). So, when these mom’s fill out their surveys at the end of the conferences, they’re asking for marriage and organizing and scheduling talks, instead of how to homeschool talks. So, the conference organizers comply, and bring in more patriarchy people. (And not that I’m opposed to people with large families – I have several friends that have 6+ kids, but not all under the age of 7 🙂 )I just think this pressure to have as many kids as possible and homeschool puts a great strain on mom. I don’t have family living nearby to turn to for help. I wouldn’t think of asking other moms of large families to help while they still have little ones. So, I can see why all these moms ask for these kind of talks at the conventions.

    I definitely think letters directly to state organizations is good, and that fellow homeschoolers should write, too. CHEC (chec.org is the website) has K. Swanson, V. Baucham, and Rick Boyer are primary speakers this year. They still don’t have their “workshop” speaker list up, but I saw on facebook that Reb Bradley is speaking (I’ve heard some of his talks at a past convention, but I don’t know if he’s a patriarchy guy – he seems very humble and shares the mistakes they made with their kids in his talks, he’s a courtship guy, but has recognized that it’s not really defined in the Bible, etc.).

    I’m going to quote the lawsuit in my letter… maybe that will sink in 🙂

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  14. has anyone else noticed that any and all comments on the VF fb page are “hidden” or have not been approved to go public? Doug has always been one to threaten & squash you if you say ANYTHING negative about him at all……..Even if you didn’t say anything negative, just question him. Just question his being wrong in facts or wrong in a post or story…..you will hear from him and quickly!

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  15. Yes, I noticed that you cannot see the comments. I would really like to know who is running that site. It doesn’t make sense that Vision Forum board would be running it. It also doesn’t make sense that it is still active, period. The whole thing is odd. But you can see, that with an audience of over 20,000, that Phillips still has a very public platform and followers. Now, it could be that people forgot to “unlike” Vision Forum, but whomever posted that is counting on having some who will sympathize with him.

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  16. WouldRatherNotSay:

    You mentioned you aren’t sure an open letter will work. I’m not either. But I do know that getting this out in the spotlight, so that it’s searchable in the website search engines, gives people more access to information. It may not change the minds of conference leaders, but it could challenge conference attenders to dig a little deeper. If someone has a sense of “something is not right, but I don’t know what it is,” those are the likely folks who will seek out information.

    Once they find the answers, then they are better able to make sound decisions for their families. The idea is to get the message out. For too long, Patriarchy has been elevated as the standard without challenge. That needs to change.

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  17. Good point. I do like the idea of it being searchable. Putting it out there. I would love to see WorldMag or WND grab it and put it up, even HSLDA. One thing that bugged me when I went looking for Michael Farris’ comments about the lawsuit, is I could only find it through the link in this comment thread. I didn’t see it on HSLDA’s facebook page or a couple of other “Michael Farris” searches. HSLDA should take a stand and say we won’t be going to conferences where the main speakers are part of the patriarchy movement. Farris should too. I know, they want to support homeschoolers (or so they say… A friend of mine has had friends who HSLDA wouldn’t support because their cases didn’t support their agenda), so support them this way. Speak up and out. Farris regrets not speaking up before, so speak up now!

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  18. That’s what I’m saying. Through my media-frenzied lawsuit, God gave me this platform which puts my articles in good search engines. Let’s use it.

    Anyone want to use their creative writing skills in writing such an open letter that I can post?

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  19. Longtime lurker as I’ve been sorting through extricating my family from this patriarchy culture. As a father of 4 daughters, reading what this sociopath has done makes me want to meet him in a dark alley and educate him in the usefulness of Israeli special forces training. And by this I completely mean I would kick his @#$. Your pushup regimen wouldn’t help one iota Doug.

    All these patriarchy wimps can ‘pray’ for him and his wife, and try to sound holier than thou with their long-winded sophistry. Deep down they are still intimidated by him and wondering if he’ll rise like a phoenix. Better to not be too overt in their dismissal right? Quietly distance because ‘its the ‘Reformed Christianese’ way to handle it, right? Some are merely swooping in to fill the patriarchy vacuum and acquire the cash flow stream that was VF.

    No. Real men kick @#$ when things are obvious. Real men protect and fight when needed. This is why Lourdes’ family chased this predator down the street after he jumps out her window. They are the real men. They don’t just ‘play’ one on stage or in self-aggrandizing ‘crockumentaries’. They ended it right then and there. Looking down the barrel of a gun. Real men. With fire in their betrayed eyes. No lifts in their cowboy boots needed, Doug.

    Patriarchy puts the weight of the world via Old Testament manipulation on families, then runs to the New Testament for ‘forgiveness’ when the fruit of these doctrinal entrapments are shown in the light of day. It’s called EVIL doctrine. Wolves in sheep’s clothing. We’ll know a tree by its fruits. Their brand of ‘forgiveness’ is attempting to hide it (VF Board) to protect the cash cows (I mean ‘ministries’).

    Equally culpable are the sycophants who equate Phillips with some kind of modern-day King David archetype – ‘well, he ‘fell’ but I still believe what he taught was Biblical’…are you kidding me?! This knee jerk quasi-biblical response is merely projection. They actually do (or did) view him as their king. Not Christ. Little doug fricking phillips.

    They are that blind. *I* was that blind. Lock, stock and barrel. A one time conference speaker, leader in a well known ‘reformed’ church, the whole shootin match. Could smell the megalomania on Phillips from the first time I met him, but ignored my better judgement. Just wasn’t ‘reformed’ enough I told myself. Wrong. I was ignoring red flags because something inside me wanted to be in the ‘inner circle’ with these yahoos. That’s how a cult is designed – to make people deeply revere and subsequently want to become one of the leaders.

    Strange brew because this cult is more like a network – almost like the tapes and seminar kingpins of Amway. Different leaders and power structures around the U.S. – all vying for paid speaking gigs at each other’s events. They are information and event marketers, pure and simple. These are not ministries. While small potatoes in the world of business, they still rake in hundreds of thousands a year – under the guise of 501c3 status. It’s profitable! And just like Gothard and every other deceived ‘celebrity’ minister turned information marketer – they believe their monetary ‘success’ is God’s blessing. God’s ‘approval’ on what they are doing in this world to ‘take dominion’ and reconstruct America in the vanity of their mind’s eye. And if *they have ‘God’s’ approval, who are you and I to question it? MenoGAWD syndrome in the worst sort of way.

    But thank God for the Holy Spirit opening my eyes and getting my family out of this mess. We are truly free in Christ, led by the Holy Spirit and in relationship with a loving Father.

    We’ll be reading about this ‘movement’ on wikipedia as another creepy anomaly history lesson in American Churchianity. Beware of future iterations of it however. The wolves have to eat until they stand before God for their duplicity.

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  20. GladWeAreOut: Now THAT was an appropriate manly response! Amen!! And I’m thrilled about this:

    But thank God for the Holy Spirit opening my eyes and getting my family out of this mess. We are truly free in Christ, led by the Holy Spirit and in relationship with a loving Father.

    Yes!!! And please stop lurking. The homeschool movement community needs to see more of your kind of manly response to abuse. 🙂

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  21. GladWeAreOut,

    Thank you for coming out of “lurkdom” to contribute that awesome comment!

    Like

  22. Katie Botkin (not part of the homeschool ideology at all) is a great writer and really understands the Homeschool Movement and abuse issues. Thanks for posting those links, M. Joy.

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  23. @ Julie Ann yes, please write an open letter to those convention leaders. PLEASE. I have given up attending my local convention – the Homeschool Bookfair in Arlington, TX. They had a love affair with Doug/VF for years and became very legalistic. It’s the same group/type of speakers year after year.

    Like

  24. Joe Morecraft who is somehow connected to Phillips, advised fellow Presbyterians that the civil magistrate is the enemy and as such are not entitled to the truth. This sounds like the idea of “total institution” that Marsha mentioned. It would be worth looking into. Phillips must have bought into it.

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  25. Nutshell: You are correct we don’t know for sure whether the board did actually “encourage” Mrs. Phillips to contact the plaintiff she could be lying, however I believe her claim. For one it aligns with the other facts. We know the board knew about Doug’s conduct back in February. Obviously they didn’t go public or deal with Doug appropriately and continued, business as usual. Tell tells me a lot, the board was trying to navigate through this mess without exposure. Those bums were taking nice side salaries and in the case of Scott Brown, he was taking a salary and his “ministry” was connected at the neck to Phillips and Vision Forum. When you really get down to it Scott Brown and Doug Phillips are like that ugly, two headed baby that carnivals use to display. One head is always scapegoating the other, blaming the other and trying to nurse off both nipples to get as much as he can for himself. Once it was obvious that the kingdom of Z Doug was going to crumble, Sir Snotty Scotty moved to distance himself from his ugly twin. Suddenly last Fall, Doug was unredeemable and the ministry had to be shutter, but Scott Brown and the entire BOARD knew about all this way back in February. Obviously Scott Brown and his board of jug Heads were quite willing to pull a Watergate, shrewed and conceal the truth and all to protect their precious income flow from Vision Forum. They are all a bunch of scumbags that but money ahead of truth and a young woman. They all wanted to continue to nurse off Vision Forum (and gullible donors) just like the ugly two headed baby. It’s really all very nauseating. A young woman had a perverted predator crawling through her window and ejaculating on her AND THESE MEN WERE WILLING TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY FOR A FEW BUCKS. Like a bunch of perverted operators of peep shows, gay sex clubs etc. Whatever for a few dollars. Scott Brown, Jim Zeiss and Don Hart are every bit as guilty as Doug Phillips. The ugly baby really has FOUR heads.

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  26. “I have given up attending my local convention – the Homeschool Bookfair in Arlington, TX. They had a love affair with Doug/VF for years and became very legalistic. It’s the same group/type of speakers year after year.”

    I believe it. My former church sells their curriculum at this fair. Birds of a feather . . .

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  27. GladWeAreOut! You really poured out from your heart your excellent thoughts from your own experience. Not sure which sentence or paragraph was better than the last one! These are quotable quotes IMO.

    You have discerned rightly, have changed your direction as a family, and now you are in a position to be available as a help to others!! You have nailed it well! I hope that you will keep commenting.

    OK, one of my fav’s: “Patriarchy puts the weight of the world via Old Testament manipulation on families, then runs to the New Testament for ‘forgiveness’ when the fruit of these doctrinal entrapments are shown in the light of day. It’s called EVIL doctrine. Wolves in sheep’s clothing. We’ll know a tree by its fruits.”

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  28. @GladWeAreOut:

    I was ignoring red flags because something inside me wanted to be in the ‘inner circle’ with these yahoos. That’s how a cult is designed – to make people deeply revere and subsequently want to become one of the leaders.

    Or one of The Leader’s enforcers in brown shirt, black tunic, armband, and old fighters’ chevron, enjoying the true meaning of “Fear Breeds Respect”. And the ambition to climb into The Leader’s throne yourself.

    What Lewis called “The Lure of the Inner Ring”.

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  29. Scott, that is some of the most COLORFUL language I’ve heard on this blog. Reminds me of Gene Scott when he had his own cable channel.

    “When you really get down to it Scott Brown and Doug Phillips are like that ugly, two headed baby that carnivals use to display. One head is always scapegoating the other, blaming the other and trying to nurse off both nipples to get as much as he can for himself.”

    “Once it was obvious that the kingdom of Z Doug was going to crumble…

    “Z Doug”? Analogy to that ZZ Best fraud scandal from some years ago?

    …, Sir Snotty Scotty moved to distance himself from his ugly twin.”

    Hard to do when you share the same body below the head.

    “Obviously Scott Brown and his board of jug Heads were quite willing to pull a Watergate, shred and conceal the truth and all to protect their precious income flow from Vision Forum. They are all a bunch of scumbags…”

    “A young woman had a perverted predator crawling through her window and ejaculating on her AND THESE MEN WERE WILLING TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY FOR A FEW BUCKS.”

    Isn’t that called “aiding and abetting” or “accessory”?
    Or joining in on the kickback income from a pimp through his Bagman?

    “The ugly baby really has FOUR heads.”

    Each head suckin’ on the gland to get as much as he can for himself.

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  30. JA: I am 1000% sure that DP is the “man behind the curtain” for the VF fb page…….

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  31. Speaking of Reb Bradley, he acknowledges mistakes on child rearing but says that he and his wife stand by what they have taught in the past. He may have meant well, he may be a pleasant person to adults, but based on his book, he is a monster to children. I don’t think I could stand to be in the same room with him.

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  32. Gladweareout, Your 4/16 10;13 comment was AWESOME.

    There is nothing like waking up and having the veil lifted, is there? And seeing it all for what it really is. I know, been there done that, too. And I could not agree more that what we are seeing in much of American Christendom these days looks so much like the Amway method. And yes, we are talking cultic. Believe it or not the seeker megas were much the same back in the 90’s. They take reverence for leaders way too far. But I will say, the Reformed movement has perfected it to almost a science since they have the determinist god to affirm it all.

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  33. Our family started to really get into patriarchy about 9 years ago due to the influence of VF although we did not realize this at the time. We started moving away from it about 2 1/2 years ago.

    We are/were born again believers. My hubby is an awesome godly leader of our family but he is a little rough around the edges aka a real man. He swears sometimes and shows he is human 🙂 as well as myself. He reminds me of the guy above that keeps quoting how he will kick #@! My husband loves me dearly and is romantic but you will never see him blogging about it or taking me to a titanic ball (well maybe if I really wanted to etc) He is the greatest father ever too. He works 60+ hard hours a week and isn’t a pretty boy.

    But my point is this: I would be lying to you if I did not say that while getting into this movement I had wished my husband was more like some of these patriarchal leaders, “a really GOOD christian”.

    My husband was always suspicious of DP from the beginning and thought him arrogant by just looking at his catalogs and reading some of his work/quotes. One thing that always struck my husband was the pictures of DP in the army jeep that was not even his. Hubby said, “People are giving/lending him these things just so they can fit in his clique”, the jeep isn’t even his but he would like you to think it is. There is more but I wont bore all of us…

    Anyhow, shame on me for “wishing” my husband was more Godly or as Godly as these leaders. My husband has stood a long test of time spiritually with his rough edges and all unlike DP. My husband was/is “the good christian” hubby that I had wished for (I know he isnt perfect)

    I have been motivated by all that has happened to remind my married daughters to love the husband you have and not pray for him to be like someone else, but this has hit home real hard for me first. Even us older wives/mothers can learn something new 🙂

    This is a lesson for all of ladies that our eyes might be opened to learn something about ourselves from this horrible situation!

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  34. I keep thinking about the open letter idea. I think you are right, Julie Anne, there is an opportunity to be heard. And you do not stand alone. We debate lots of things here, but I believe there is a real consensus among the many SSB participants about issues surrounding abuse in the church and abusive teachings. There are some great writers too. Could we write open letters as a group and call ourselves something like the Spiritual Sounding Board Discernment Center?

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  35. The suit is in Bexar County (San Antonio) where DP lives, and the VFI and VFM are located. It is not Kendall, which includes Boerne, where the Boerne Christian Academy is located, and which could probably also have been named as a defendant. The law firm representing her is in Bartonville, about 11 miles S. of Denton, and some distance NNE of Ft. Worth. It is a long way to San Antonio for the attorneys to travel, 4-5 hours by automobile unless traffic is really bad, which happens often. (There is now an 85 mph bypass around Austin that can shorten the trip by a half-hour or so, again depending on time of day and traffic.)

    I am surprised that the plaintiff did not get an attorney in San Antonio area, and wonder how this law firm was identified. They appear to have done a good job with the petition, and it shows either an earlier experience with this type of religious cult community or a lot of research by the attorneys to elaborate the cultural issues that will be necessary to disprove willing participation by the plaintiff.

    I will be rooting for these attorneys. I have had experience with legal issues in a less patriarchal cultish church in the San Antonio area, and know that much of the juror pool will be knowledgeable about some of the issues. Picking a jury should be an entertaining spectacle, if the case gets that far. DP and the others may want to settle to avoid putting it all, and I mean all, in the public record.

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  36. I just want to chime in my admiration and prayers for this young woman. Lourdes, may you and your new husband
    find rest and freedom from those painful years. Many here on this blog are your cheering squad!

    Like

  37. “Anyhow, shame on me for “wishing” my husband was more Godly or as Godly as these leaders. My husband has stood a long test of time spiritually with his rough edges and all unlike DP. My husband was/is “the good christian” hubby that I had wished for (I know he isnt perfect)”

    #teamlourdes, I can’t tell you how many women I’ve talked to about this whole fiasco that have said the same kind of thing ~ including myself. One size does not fit all ☺ or prove that they’re more Christian than anyone else.

    Like

  38. Katie Botkin makes a good point in her blog post:

    “If Lourdes was merely out to play the victim, as some posit, she could have claimed Phillips assaulted her when she was underage, because she was frequently in his home when she was underage. She could have claimed he did other sexual things to her, or that he threatened her, or any number of things. But she didn’t. She’s outlining a very specific and a very believable train of events…”

    Like

  39. Admin note: I just removed a comment. We don’t need to personally attack someone by telling them they were personally attacking someone else. My mama always told me, “two wrongs don’t make a right.”

    Days ago, I was notified privately that I missed a comment (personal attack) and deleted it. Normally I would have addressed the issue. Because the comment was well over a week old, it made no sense to bring the situation up publicly. It’s better to deal with issues as they present themselves which is why I rely on you all to inform me privately if I miss something (easy to do with a busy blog).

    Thanks for your help. ~Julie Anne

    Like

  40. Texas law makes a pastor or similar spiritual leader using his “authority” to have sex (including “almost but not quite sex”, as in this case) with a person in his church, sect, cult, sexual assault. The presumption is a lot like statutory rape.

    Two forms are important. One is the person who is incapable of saying yes (due to age or infirmity), i.e., the young and the old, and some with limited intellectual or physical capabilities. The second is someone who is effectively psychologically or emotionally incapable to saying no and making it effective. This includes those being counseled or receiving psychological care, as well as those in the situation of this poor woman.

    The crime is a felony, and the convict would have to register as a sex offender.

    The civil lawsuit is a different matter and does not preclude a criminal case. The Bexar County District Attorney may be investigating.

    There could also be criminal implications of Beale’s behavior as well as that of board members of VFM and VFI, such as witness/victim intimidation, facilitation of the offense, etc.

    And I believe the BCA could be held civilly liable.

    BTW, the insurers of VFI, VFM and BCA may or may not pay to defend the suit under the circumstances, but is likely on the hook for some portion of any civil judgment. And DP may have had his own insurance!

    Like

  41. Is there anyone willing to compile all the articles with links related to this lawsuit? I’m pressed for time, but would love to post that at the bottom of this article. This blog is getting a lot of traffic and it would be good to make info easily accessible. Btw, if you do a search in Doug Phillips and Lourdes, you’ll see new articles today.

    Just post a comment if you can so this. Thanks!

    Like

  42. The attorney for Lourdes is David Gibbs III. I’m not sure if she chose him or he chose her but he is (though Texas based) a nationally known attorney with impeccable evangelical creds. He was the lead attorney for Terry Schaivo’s parents in the Florida case. He happens to be defending the County Commissioners in my home county in North Carolina who are being sued by the ACLU for opening meetings with prayer (prayed by the commissioners.)

    His organization, National Center for Life and Liberty, is really reaching out to the home school community similar to HSLDA, ie. pay a membership fee and receive legal advice/assistance.

    Oddly enough, his father, Attorney David Gibbs, Jr. is/has been involved in both the Gothard and Schaap cases in some role.

    http://www.ncll.org/about/david-gibbs-iii-president

    Like

  43. JA, you asked for someone to volunteer to write an open letter. I would like to nominate GladWeAreOut 🙂

    Like

  44. @Julie Anne – thank YOU for standing for the cause of righteousness, for exposing these things, for putting yourself in the crosshairs of these supposedly ‘powerful’ people. No doubt you know they don’t have any real power. Christ has the power and is peeling back the layers of this onion called patriarchy. It stinks and makes us cry all at the same time.

    @ Barb, Diane, BeenThereDoneThat, WouldRatherNotSay, lydiasellerofpurple – thanks for the comments and encouragement.

    @ #teamlourdes – your husband and I would probably like heading to the shooting range together. We could use VF CD’s for clay pigeons. Pull!!

    @Lourdes & Nolan – congratulations! Most importantly on starting your life together but secondarily making your lawsuit one of the first significant decisions as a couple. I don’t know if I’ve ever hear of such a thing – newlyweds filing a lawsuit like this on the heels of their wedding. Awesome and brave at the same time.

    Doug Phillips always talked about ‘breaking his children’s will’ when disciplining them. Ironic. Today’s Proverb was spot on – 16:18 – a well known one – “pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.”

    Doug – God is going to use the people you’ve hurt to break *your will. You’ve forced His Hand through your pride and haughty spirit. You tried to save what you built because it was all for you. Not HIM. So the fall is coming for you. Your dirty laundry is now getting exposed on a flagpole for the world to see. The purpose is justice for Lourdes and for your real and true repentance. That will require your breaking on the Cornerstone that is Christ.

    Like

  45. Now that Lourdes is married to Nolan Manteufel, I can’t help but wonder about some of his cryptic Facebook posts a few months back. I didn’t keep up with them, but they seemed to be directed at Peter Bradrick.

    Like

  46. From the link to David Gibbs III bio, the last comment is a winner:

    “Attorney Gibbs believes: “If it’s wrong, fight it. If it’s right, fight for it.” His life verse is Matthew 25:40, where Jesus said, “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these, my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”

    Like

  47. “Christ has the power and is peeling back the layers of this onion called patriarchy. It stinks and makes us cry all at the same time.” **

    GladWeAreOut: You got that right. Very creative!

    Like

  48. FYI — an initial series of links is posted at the end of the above article. Thanks for the links you’ve been leaving in the comment thread here. We’ll get them incorporated into the new “key facts and links” section as soon as we can!

    Like

  49. Something like this needs to be “leaked”, or something, to like a Christian News media organization. One that opposes patriarch stuff, of course. Then, if someone could do a news documentary of patriarch belief system, much like what we may see on the Biography Channel (or other channels as well, aka PBS, or Dateline) on cults like the FLDS, Jim Jones, and that Waco (TEXAS) seige of the Branch Davidians, etc. Christendom needs to know the dark side of Christianity. There are BIG BIG names of people involved in this who are oppressing many many people, and are hiding behind Religious “freedom” that our Constitution calls for, but yet, they are like anarchists who can’t stand the government of that same Constitution. All of the above listed religions are anarchists, and there are many more religious anarchists among us.

    Like

  50. I have, via the internet, been watching Doug Phillips and his cult for many years. I’ve never been involved in the patriarchy movement, but I’m a Christian and have seen much from the Vision Forum camp that irritated, angered, and saddened me. The developments of the past several months have genuinely shocked me. If Lourdes is telling the truth, and I have a strong feeling she is, Doug Phillips isn’t just prideful and greedy – he’s a predator and a criminal. For so long this narcissistic little man has been the self-appointed ruler of an earthly empire, arrogantly stepping on anyone who interferes with his plans or hurts his ego. Everyone else has been a supporting player in his costume drama, even the Lord. But it appears that God is now performing a necessary surgery. When he cuts a cancer from the church, he does so with unmatched skill and precision. It’s a frightful thing to see.

    There’s so much more I want to say right now, but the feeling of disgust is so overwhelming that words mostly fail me. What a spectacular trainwreck. What a tragedy. Thank God for His intervention.

    Like

  51. “What can we do to be a bullhorn and educate Christians and churches?”
    Here is one idea.

    Jeff Crippen’s book “A Cry For Justice: How the Evil of Domestic Abuse Hides in Your Church” explains the abusive mentality and how it parades and gets away with its evil in churches. The dynamics of domestic abuse are very much teh same as the dynamics of spiritually abusive churches. The total institution characteristics are similar whether the institution is a cult-church or an individual family controlled by an abusive spouse. So I would recommend people get that book and give it to their pastor and leaders. There is a whole chapter in the book dedicated to The Abuser’s Quest For Power In The Church.

    Another idea, and yes, this is my own book, so apols for blowing my own trumpet a bit here, is “Not Under Bondage: Biblical Divorce For Abuse, Adultery and Desertion”. This book is proving very helpful for victims who think that they do not have biblical grounds to divorce an abusive spouse. Many of the women trapped in Patriarchal cults like VF are held in by multiple misunderstandings of the doctrine of divorce. My book exposes all those false doctrines and demonstrates that Scripture allows, even encourages (but does not mandate) an abuse victim to divorce an abusive spouse.

    If you don’t have the money to purchase these books, you can help educate the community by simply requesting that your local library obtain these books. That way, penniless victims can at least borrow them, and the lights will come on and they may decide to leave the toxic situations (homes and/or churches) they have been entrapped in.

    Like

  52. @Headless Unicorn Guy

    Fair assumption (my desire for ascension) since I was being groomed as a leader, but ultimately false as I spent more time behind closed doors, called B.S. and got my family out of dodge. 3 1/2 years start to finish. I’m a leader in business and nobody’s brown shirt lackey. I merely thought these men were who they claimed to be. Took some time to see their true stripes and you have so much ‘social proof’ coming at you in the form of genuinely sweet families, content, weekly church and ‘take back our land’ events.

    My wife and I trusted too easily – thought we were missing something as we sat in that first homeschool conference. It all starts at the patriarchy-laced homeschool conferences. If the patriarchy speakers (and the conferences they control) can be simply put out of business through lack of opportunity & attendance (ticket and product sales), then the movement’s recruitment faucet gets shut off. Combined with grace-based sites such as this to wake up those already sucked in, a few long overdue lawsuits to bring the sexual deviants under formal legal discovery, and this aberrant branch of Christendom collapses for lack of resources.

    They will fight tooth and nail though. They believe they are doing God’s work and are riding on a new ‘mayflower’ across America. Fastest way to build a tribe is to identify who your enemies are. Most of these guys start right off with the trump card – if you are not with us – you are enemies of God and we have full authority to lambast you on a radio show, in a ‘documentary’, a book, from a stage or wherever we deem necessary. To the rest of Christendom, their message is essentially, “you are screwing up, and the wider culture proves it. We’ve got it figured out. Now sit at our feet and keep quiet.”

    Swanson’s ‘shock jock’ style was the first chink in the patriarchy armor. Initially, I was drawn to it as I’m a passionate guy myself, but ultimately, you come to realize its not ministry. It’s sensationalism. Its cheap tricks to build an audience and speaker persona.

    His own hubris on a show where he discusses ‘are we a cult’ led me to Google the name of each leader + cult. This landed me here and all the other ‘whitewashed feminist’ blogs [good little reformed lemmings] shouldn’t be reading – let alone agreeing with and commenting on. That was 18 months ago. Like I said, long time lurker. I’m sure there are a few of you out there just like I’ve been. We might even know each other.

    Like

  53. I just reread parts of the lawsuit and I really do hope that Lourdes kept the equivalent of the “blue dress” that Monica Lewinsky had, as Doug denies that there was any type of that activity. I think he (and his wife) will forever be in deep denial.

    I really admire Lourdes’ courage in coming forward publicly. This will shine a light on the secret sin of sex abuse. I hope other victims take heart from her example. You go, girl!

    Congratulations to Lourdes and Nathan! May they have a long and happy marriage.

    Like

  54. Thanks for the link, Gardenkatz! He just cannot keep his mouth shut, can he? And talk about gag worthy. I noted this statement, “‘I think God wanted to draw us together and do something much bigger than us or our family’s story,’ said Phillips.”

    Uh no, Doug. God does not want you do something bigger than your family’s story. He does not want you to do anything to represent yourself as what Christianity or Christian repentance, or Christian marriage or anything else is all about. He wants you to behave yourself, do better by your wife and children and stay out of the ministry.

    So Lourdes is lying? Now how could that even be? They both agree that intercourse didn’t take place. They both agree that inappropriate physical activity took place. We are running out of possibilities here. I believe absolutely believe Lourdes. Her account rings true. Nothing out of Phillips’ mouth sounds even plausible.

    I wish Lourdes and Nolan a long and happy life together. Lourdes, we support you here.

    Like

  55. @#teamlourdes: I definitely agree that the Christian Heritage homeschool organization is heavily loaded with the patriarchal goods at all their conferences. Not sure how much weight your open letter will carry, though, as VP Michael Bradrick’s son Peter is Scott Brown’s son-in-law. Neil Craig, the president, was until a few months ago the manager of Vision Forum’s download website, Blue Behemoth. Their connections with DP and Vision Forum are probably still pretty tight.

    Like

  56. Outmywindow, don’t forget that Phillips has threatened to sue Peter Bradrick. He can’t be very popular with Michael Bradrick and Scott Brown right now.

    Like

  57. I just read this article that gardenkatz posted. I’ve learned a lot since blogging and one of the things I’ve learned from Brad is that sometimes what is not said is just as important as what is said. Take a look at this quote from the article:

    In 2013, Phillips voluntarily resigned from his leadership position at the family’s Baptist Church in Boerne, Texas.

    Yes, that was in early 2013, when Lourdes’ brother chased Phillips down the block after he attempted to get inside Lourdes’ bedroom window in the middle of the night. It was after Doug and Beall and Lourdes’ parents met and Phillips realized he had to give up his teaching elder position because now there were so many witnesses. What’s not said is: what about his resignation from Vision Forum Ministries and company? Did he voluntarily leave Vision Forum Ministries and for-profit company? Voluntarily is the key word there. Why would he “voluntarily” leave his teaching elder position at BCA and continue giving conferences teaching on godly fatherhood? How repentant was that? Someone truly repentant would have resigned from all ministry work.

    Phillips is no repentant man.

    Like

  58. His own hubris on a show where he discusses ‘are we a cult’ led me to Google the name of each leader + cult. This landed me here and all the other ‘whitewashed feminist’ blogs [good little reformed lemmings] shouldn’t be reading – let alone agreeing with and commenting on. That was 18 months ago.

    HA! I won’t tell Tony and CON know if you won’t. It will be our secret.

    Like

  59. Doug Phillips, Esq. (Extra Sexualized Quiverist).

    Wendell – That was great. A while back, we had I think 3 attorneys discussing the Esq. tag at the end of his name. All three attorneys agreed that it was unnecessary and arrogant.

    I’ll bet my readers can find other ideas for E.S.Q!

    Update: Scratch that idea. Read Brad’s comment beneath mine. He’s got more wisdom than me.

    Like

  60. So … re: Esq.

    I’d suggest we “Don’t make that walk on all fours,” if you’ve heard that expression. There may be legit uses of the term.

    For instance, the primary lawyer/contact for Lourdes Torres-Manteufel, states his name on her petition cover sheet as, David C. Gibbs, Esq.

    But that isn’t the way that either he or legal partner Dustin T. Gaines sign their names on the final page of the petition.

    So it isn’t all cosplay, yuh know. Just sayin’ … FWIW.

    Like

  61. Not trying to be a buzz-kill.

    But it is interesting to note that I haven’t seen “Esq.” anywhere for Mr. Gibbs outside of the cover sheet for the petition. Hmm … maybe a Texas state requirement so to sign on the cover-sheet line?

    Like

  62. @Marsha: Yes, I rushed my comment and forgot that fact. I guess my thought was that Christian Heritage leaders (at least some) have probably been into patriarchy so deeply and for so long that getting them to ditch that horse will be a tough sell. Am pretty sure that there is at least one unmarried Bradrick daughter in her mid- to late-30’s.

    Like

  63. Dear GladWeAreOut,

    Welcome to into the light and fresh air, and to this blog. You have a great way with words.

    “your husband and I would probably like heading to the shooting range together. We could use VF CD’s for clay pigeons. Pull!!”

    Well, if no one’s going to mine them for insights into the patrio-centrist mindset, they ought to be used for at least something. Why not target practice?

    Like

  64. I don’t know whether Lourdes is following this site, or any of the online coverage of her story. If she is, I hope she stays away from the comment section of the original World Net Daily article. Not only has it gone viral, it’s become infested by the infamous commenter ttpog, who (as always) has a lot to say with very little understanding. No sympathy or comprehension for Lourdes’ situation, and refuses to recognize her as a victim.

    Lourdes, if you’re listening, don’t let commenters like that drag you down. Not worth it. (I should probably avoid reading ttpog’s comments myself as much as possible, for my own emotional health.)

    Like

  65. Oh no, Serving. Ugh. That is not good.

    I know that people are following these stories and the comments. Serving, if you are saying ttpog’s comment affect your emotional health and you are not even part of this community, imagine what it would be like to be a part of that community and read that junk!

    Folks who are closely connected with Boerne, San Antonio homeschooling community, please be very careful. Some of the comments are very cruel and can send you down a very emotional roller coaster. I would recommend staying at sites where survivors are defended (Wartburg Watch, here, etc.) You should be able to quickly figure out which sites are safe or not.

    I don’t want to minimize this because this Phillips story is affecting so many families. Some are having to re-question what they’ve been taught and adhered to for years. This is serious business. Take care of yourself.

    There are a lot of new readers stopping by. The comment section is always available for you (at any time, on any article) to share what’s going on with you emotionally/spiritually if you need a safe place to do that. I don’t care what the topic is, this place is for you. Jump right on in. We do not consider it an interruption, but a privilege to “listen.”

    You will get support here.
    ~ja

    Like

  66. “Fair assumption (my desire for ascension) since I was being groomed as a leader, but ultimately false as I spent more time behind closed doors, called B.S. and got my family out of dodge. 3 1/2 years start to finish. I’m a leader in business and nobody’s brown shirt lackey. I merely thought these men were who they claimed to be”

    I can totally relate to this in the venue of seeker celebrity mega world. Thankfully I had enough real world experience and success in my field that I was able to pick up on the deception and hyopcrisy over time as my common sense kicked in and the desire to be in the “inner ring” started to dawn on me was actually enabling what we should be calling ‘evil”.

    I will tell you what bothers me the most about all of the corruption in Christendom. It usually takes a sex or money scandal to make any ripples at all with the followers. I am of the opinion that if more saw behind the curtain their affection for and trust in most of these leaders would vanish.And I include them all in this: YRR, IFB, SBC, VF, CREC, OPC, seekeer megas like Rick Warren, Ed Young, and so on and on.

    The truth most pew sitters or followers from outside do not really know these folks. They know their ‘stage personal” or their writing. They do not know the person and let us face it, people are attracted to Doug Phillips’ ‘scholarship’. NOr Piper’s Nor Doug Wilson’s, Nor Ed Youngs, etc etc. So, that is not it. There is “something else” and that “something else” is where people need to dig into their hearts.

    Those around the guru usually have too much invested to speak up or they were chosen young and were malleable and the beholden both financially and emotionally to the guru. . (I find the latter to be the usual method)

    I often thought, if more could see what I saw, More would come to realize it is bascially a fraud. These gurus have been perfecting their persona and are “playing a role” they created for themselves using Jesus as the bait to build their own kingdoms.

    But our entire society is wrapped up in cult of personality. Christianity is simply another market niche and a profitable one. We slap a plastic fish on it and call it Christian whether it is the Amer flag on the right or the race/class baiting of the left.

    They ALL need money and followers for it to continue. That is why shining a light behind the curtain early on (transparancy/sunlight) is the best disinfectent. I wish it would happen more and sooner. Why do we need a sex scandal when deception and game playing should be enough to turn off “Christians”?

    Like

  67. @Lydia:

    I will tell you what bothers me the most about all of the corruption in Christendom. It usually takes a sex or money scandal to make any ripples at all with the followers.

    Because in today’s Christendom, the only REAL sin is SEXUAL.
    If it isn’t SEXUAL (“knowing in the Biblical sense” — Douggie ESQUIRE), it isn’t REALLY sin.

    Like

  68. @GardenKatz:

    I don’t think Doug is helping his cause. I thought his lawyer said they wouldn’t be making a public statement.

    Never underestimate an egomaniac’s obsession to Prove Himself Absolutely Right and everyone else Absolutely Wrong.

    Plus, CELEBRITIES(TM) can’t stay away from the limelight. If they’re not FAMOUS (and constantly in the limelight), they don’t exist.

    Like

  69. @Headless Unicorn Guy:

    I believe Doug is his own undoing because he HAS to have the last word. He just can’t help himself. The more he talks publicly about this, the worse he looks.

    Lourdes and Nolan keep fighting the good fight. And go do something fun, you just got married!

    Like

  70. Beall’s comment, “I’ve had almost 16 months now to work through this with him and see significant changes in the level of emotional intimacy between the two of us,” said Beall Phillips.” is strange. By this statement, one would think the only counsel they received was talking to eachother and they did not get another party involved to counsel them and show THEM the error of THEIR ways!!!! SCARY! #DPwillbeback with Beall at his side with a new VF

    Like

  71. Ok, for those who object to me mocking the Esq. title, here is a definition:

    ( initial capital letter ) an unofficial title of respect, having no precise significance, sometimes placed, especially in its abbreviated form, after a man’s surname in formal written address: in the U.S., usually applied to lawyers, women as well as men; in Britain, applied to a commoner considered to have gained the social position of a gentleman. Abbreviation: Esq.

    A. This man (Phillips) deserves no respect.
    B. He is no gentleman.
    C. If there are any questions, refer to A and B!

    So, I ridicule any reference of respect to him, whether customary or not.

    Like

  72. another thought unrelated to above (this may have been mentioned but I did not have time to read all comments)

    I think DP is lying to BEALL and this is why he is denying the real sexual things that happened. DP stated, “As a public figure, I let people down,” said Phillips. “She has alleged certain things that are absolutely false. They are made up.” (aka he is not telling the entire truth

    also note the word PROBABLY in the next quote. USUALLY the PROBABLY is always a word that liars use to get away with not telling the entire truth because technically they feel they are not lying because they covered for themselves, “The majority of our communication was probably over the Internet. And it was largely emotional, although it did cross the lines into other areas.”

    HE LIED TO BEALL to and this is his cover. He painted in more of an emotional affair to Beall (which is was) but left out the sexual parts to her I am thinking…

    HE IS A LIAR!!!

    I wonder if Lourdes has any photos of him in the “act” ??

    Like

  73. Yeah, old “Can’t keep it in my pants” Phillips just can’t get a handle on his verbal diarrhea. . . is there a pattern here? (Methinks it’s a characteristic of a megalomaniac??)

    Like

  74. The comments on WND are horrible but most seem to be by the same woman who I think commented often here and definitely did on Jen’s blog. Has to be a relative. The theme is so consistent and it’s just repeating the same things over and over. Could be a deluded fan.

    Like

  75. Yikes, so many typos and left out words in last comment, I am ashamed! I know better than to comment on the run.

    A big one for the left out word

    “They do not know the person and let us face it, people are attracted to Doug Phillips’ ‘scholarship’”

    That should read:

    They do not know the person and let us face it, people are NOT attracted to Doug Phillips’ ‘scholarship’.

    Sheesh!

    Like

  76. Yes, Farris. Perhaps you should have “used words.” It’s a little late for that, isn’t it?

    Exactly! After reading Serving’s comment about the nasty comments on the WND article, I had no self-control and had to go check it out. I commented about Farris there:

    Farris has stood behind and supported his Patriarchal friends, sharing podiums with them for over two decades. It’s a little late. They all talk about being godly men. Godly men don’t let other men spiritually, physically, and sexually oppress women and children.

    Like

  77. Lydia

    “Yikes, so many typos”

    Well, Because of that – I’m NO longer going to read your comments…
    Unless you begin with…

    “This Bus has been checked for sleeping children” – Oppps wrong one… 😉

    “This coment has been spell checked and edited for mising words.”

    And – If you notice I always try to capitalize “NOT” in the comments.

    I’ve left out a few. 😉

    Both writing and reading – sometimes I just miss tying the knot. oppps

    Typing the not… And often wind up NOT seeing the not someone else writes…

    Like

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