ABUSE & VIOLENCE IN THE CHURCH, ABUSE RECOVERY PROCESS-PROBLEMS, Domestic Violence, Full-Quiver, Homeschool Legal Defense Association, Homeschool Movement, Legalism, Parenting, Patriarchal-Complementarian Movement, Recovery Process

The David and Louise Turpin Family Homeschool Cult

Julie Anne

David and Louise Turpin, Homeschool, Cult, Abuse, Torture

David and Louise Turpin, homeschool, cult, abuse, torture, chain, padlock, quiverfull full-quiver, Christian

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Most likely you have heard the news about the large homeschooling family, the Turpins, from California. The parents, David, 57, and Louise, 49, Turpin who were arrested for torture and child endangerment, with bail set at $9 million each. Here are some of the key facts:

  • David and Louise Turpin are the biological parents of 13 children ranging in age of 2 years to 29 years old.
  • They live in Perris, California, not too far from Los Angeles.
  • Their 17-yr old daughter escaped from her home early Sunday morning by climbing out of a window, and used a deactivated cell phone to contact authorities. She showed the police photos of the living conditions of the home which convinced authorities to do a welfare check at the house.
  • When authorities arrived, they found several children shackled to beds or furniture by chain and padlocks.
  • The children were found pale and extremely emaciated.
  • It was reported that the 17-yr old looked to be approximately 10 years old. The other adults, too, looked very young for their age.
  • David and Louise Anna Turpin were arrested on charges of torture and child endangerment.
  • The minor children were taken to one hospital, and the adult children were taken to another. All were given food and drink, and admitted for treatment.
  • “US reports say Louise’s parents had tried to visit their daughter and son-in-law in the past, and had to turn back at the airport when the Turpins refused to provide their street address.” Source
  • They were known to be hoarders, and the home was dark and had a foul odor.
  • The children were rarely seen outside. Neighbors had no clue there were 13 children (and adult children) living in the home.
  • They were deeply religious, and were forced to memorize chapters of the Bible
  • David Turpin registered his homeschool under the name, Sandcastle Day School in 2011.

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Turpin’s Religious Beliefs/Practices

They said their son and daughter-in-law, whom they have not seen for several years, are religious and kept having children because “God called on them.”

The grandparents said that the children are home-schooled, made to memorize long scriptures in the Bible. Some of the children, the grandparents told ABC News, have tried to memorize the entire book. The Washington Post

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What could cause parents to do something so awful? An expert gives his opinion.

As a forensic psychologist, this is why I think David and Louise Turpin may have held their children captive

In this article, David Canter, “an emeritus professor of investigative psychology at the University of Liverpool” discussed the way the children addressed. For example, in the photos of three different wedding vow renewals, the girls all wore matching plaid dresses, and the boys, matching suits. Here is what he had to say about that:

Here is evidence of the children being treated as decorations for the parents’ rituals. They also show that the Turpins were more than happy to display their anonymous brood, apparently unaware of the social implications of showing them off in such a strangely formulaic way.

Canter noted that sometimes children held captive can indicate the possibility of sexual abuse, but didn’t see any clues to that in this case. However, he speculated about psychological reasons why parents might want to keep children locked away and away from public.

One possibility is that the parents wanted to keep their children away from the authorities for religious or other ideological reasons, or because they did not trust those outside the family. These situations have all the qualities of a cult in which the father usually acts as a patriarch who browbeats his wife and children into subservience. The Facebook photographs we’ve seen certainly have the look of a cult about them. Even their picture in Disneyland shows the children identically dressed.

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Financial Problems

I’ve lost track of how many articles I’ve read, but clearly finances was an issue for this couple. At least one house went through foreclosure in Texas. There was at least one bankruptcy in California. Could these financial difficulties, compounded with the demands of a large family contribute to the abuse? Maybe so. Here is more from David Canter:

Large families do tend either to be chaotic or to develop formal, often ritualistic, processes to manage day to day activities. Is it possible that, as the Turpins’ finances cycled ever more out of control, they became increasingly coercive in their attempts to handle the situation they had created for themselves?

 

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This video interviews a neighbor from when they lived in Texas. Also, we can see the condition their house was in after they left Texas to move to California.

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Some thoughts on homeschool laws, quiver-full ideology, and cult-like religion and beliefs:

Someone posted this story in a private Facebook group when it first broke. This Facebook group deals with homeschooled kids who are abused. We all read the report and knew in our guts this was a homeschool family. We highly suspected it was a Christian family as well. We were all right. We’ve seen this pattern again and again.

I am tired of seeing abuse in families who homeschool their children. This family was able to register their homeschool in California, and then go off the radar, with little-to-no interaction with people who might have been able to notice there was a problem.

The case raises questions about whether the state may be too lenient in its approach to home schooling and whether it should have been monitoring Mr. Turpin more closely. In California, almost anyone can open a private school by filing an affidavit with the state. California is one of 14 states that ask parents only to register to create a home school, and in 11 other states, including Texas, parents are not required to submit any documentation at all.

The California Department of Education said it was sickened by the tragedy and was investigating what had occurred. The department registers private schools, but “does not approve, monitor, inspect, or oversee” them, said Bill Ainsworth, a department spokesman. ~New York Times

As a former homeschooling mom of 23 years with 7 children, I understand the amount of pressure involved. I saw families larger than mine and I often wondered about them. Were the children being isolated? Were their children really getting a good education at home? I had suspicions about children not getting as good of an education as possible, but what about abuse? How many cases of abuse were being hidden?

“The state has a responsibility to make sure there is at least an annual inspection,” she said. “If we’re not going to uphold educational standards, then for the love of God the least we can do is uphold health and safety standards. We need to do everything we can for vulnerable minors before it becomes anything this tragic.” Assemblywoman Susan Eggman

Every state has their own homeschooling laws, some are more strict than others. But it really bothers me that abusive parents like these can keep even adult children up to the age of 29 locked up. What if the 17-yr old didn’t escape? How long would this abuse have continued?

I was in the homeschool movement when fear was taught from the key leaders. I didn’t let my children play outside during school hours for fear that a neighbor might turn us in (never mind the fact that even elementary school children get to go on recess). I had a paper taped to the inside of my kitchen cupboard that listed what to do if child protective services or the police came to our front door.

Yes, there was a culture of paranoia and fear in the homeschool movement. This family sounds like they were caught up in fear, too. Eventually, I realized that I was hearing all of the horror stories from HSLDA (Homeschool Legal Defense Association). They needed to scare us so that we would buy their homeschool insurance and provide legal assistance to us if we needed it. After that “discovery,” I stopped paying for HSLDA and never bought into that fear again. But what kept this family in so much fear? There is not the same fearful climate now for homeschoolers as there was two decades ago.

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This family didn’t believe in birth control, they were full-quiver. This means don’t interfere with a woman’s body by using artificial birth control, just trust God to give you the amount of babies He wants you to have. The Turpins had 13 children, her last child was born when she was 45 yrs old. God was in control of Louise’s womb. All children are a blessing from the Lord. That is the quiver-full mantra.

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I posted the quote from the grandparents that the children were to memorize big chunks of the Bible. That in and of itself is not abusive, but it would be interesting to look at all of their education to see what quality of education they received. The dad was registered as principal. Did he do all of the teaching and hold a full-time job?

A man named Mike reported to the New York Post that he thought the family was like a cult.

“They would march back and forth on the second story at night. The light would be on the whole the time, and they would be marching the kids back and forth,” said Mike, who wouldn’t give his last name.

Mike works in a hospital and says he’d often see the Turpin siblings being marched through the upstairs rooms between midnight and 3 a.m.

I wonder if the Turpins followed any specific religious teachings. Did they follow Bill Gothard’s teachings? Maybe not, the girls were seen wearing pants. It doesn’t seem like they went to church, or the neighbors would have seen them leaving and returning to their house over the years. It’s highly likely they were influenced by patriarchal teachings, but was it anyone in particular? Doug Wilson? The former Doug Phillips? Or was David Turpin just doing his own thing?

Sometimes in patriarchy, wives are abused. Was Louise abused in her home? How about the children – – did they experience any physical abuse (not sexual)?

I have a lot of questions. A whole lot of anger. And I just want to weep for those precious kids who will likely have to spend many, many years getting help recovering from their nightmare. Imagine – – the people who should have cared for them and loved them the most, neglected and harmed them. What a tragedy. Lord have mercy!

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203 thoughts on “The David and Louise Turpin Family Homeschool Cult”

  1. JA,

    I didn’t realise you had 7 children. That’s quite a large family. Can I ask if the reason was due to being involved with ‘quiverfull’ groups?

    I don’t use artificial birth control because I just hear too many horror stories about how it messes with your body. I don’t see anything stupid with ‘trusting God’ with the number of children we have.

    We’re well on our way to having a large family (due to not preventing pregnancies) and it’s a bit sad that society and even Christians seem to describe such families as being mad or strange.

    This family in CA seems completely bizarre.

    But there are families who trust God with their family size who are relatively normal and simply don’t want to use drugs to stop something God has said is a blessing.

    Should I feel foolish for believing this way?

    Would it make everyone feel more comfortable if I just had a couple of kids to keep in line with social norms?

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Hi Salty, I was heavily influenced by people in the quiverfull movement. But technically we were not. True quiverfull means no preventing pregnancies. We used sympto-thermal method of natural family planning for both preventing and achieving pregnancy. I, too, do not like drugs that mess with my body.

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  3. I mean no offense and all that, but I would go into what I have seen and read. In all this, God did nothing, at all, for decades with these people. In my old faith community, this would be seen as glorious because Gets glory out of this kind of stuff, in spades. It proves our depravity which has apologetic use and can be used to gain some points on apologetic blogs and facebook posts. In my days working in the state facility hearing about and seeing the effects of horrific abuse would just stump me. My faith community would remind me that God gets glory out of all this, great glory and that alone is enough. PS we also all have it coming but that is another post.

    That sums up my spiritual experience. I want nothing at all to do with their “god”. But I cant seem to frame God like that, to my shame. I will never understand how a parent can do this to a child or anyone for that matter. I do wish the very best for the children, first I hope they get away from anything religious if religion is a part of it all. I still dont get why God hates us so much, I get that He does, that is so very clear in and out of scripture but I dont get why.

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  4. I’m sure the Turpins began just as Salty, up above. Imagining that their god wanted them to have as many children as possible. Unfortunately, god(s) have a way of disappearing when it comes to feeding them, clothing them, getting up in the night with them, worrying about them, agonizing over their decisions, and educating them. Family planning – for all kinds of practical reasons – is imperative, in most sensible people’s minds.

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  5. This story is horrific. I would like to caution that not every one who homeschools their kids is an abusive cult family. It’s easy to blame homeschooling because of the horrible stories like this that make the news, but there are many good people who homeschool for a variety of reasons. There are both good parents and abusive parents who send their kids to public/private schools, and there are good teachers in the schools as well as those who are horribly abusive. The fault is not the system but in the abusers who will find a way to abuse kids no matter what type of education they used.

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  6. Thanks JA, I’ll have a look into that.

    Thanks for the laugh Carmen. Nice to know where we will end up in ten years time… sitting in a jail cell due to starving and shackling our much loved children.

    We haven’t once tried to prevent pregnancy and have a bunch of gorgeous kids. I’ve not once even referred to our lifestyle as ‘quiverfull’. We simply love having kids and are open to having as many as we end up wit’s. That said, I’m not trying to have as many as possible and I’ve breastfed all my kids past the two year mark so we have pretty normal gaps between ages.

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong or weird with desiring or having large families, provided you are taking care of them.

    It’s just a bit disappointing to read negative remarks about families who trust God in this area of their lives. Not all large families are abusive.

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  7. “Not all large families are abusive.” I’m not sure where you got that idea from my comment, Salty. Perhaps you are a tad sensitive? If so, I’d suggest it’s because you’ve also read about dwindling resources, competition for jobs as our numbers increase, etc. It’s called reality.

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  8. Their 17-yr old daughter escaped from her home early Sunday morning by climbing out of a window, and used a deactivated cell phone to contact authorities. She showed the police photos of the living conditions of the home which convinced authorities to do a welfare check at the house.

    I will be reading this whole story, but my first thought is god bless the Brave Courageous 17 year old GIRL who went all CIA on their bad/word/deleted selves to protect herself and her siblings.

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  10. She is a hero!

    Mike works in a hospital and says he’d often see the Turpin siblings being marched through the upstairs rooms between midnight and 3 a.m.

    This is very, very strange. I think there were some really disordered things going on here, and that contributed to the money issues. Apparently the father was an engineer? Or so my coworker said. So he would have made decent money, they just spent it on giant vacations, which were for SHOW on social media it appears. I don’t even know where to begin breaking this one down. Maybe it all snowballed as things got out of control.

    I appreciate you JA describing the odd paranoia that is pervasive, which would keep kids out of school I think, even if it might be best for them. I have a lot of thoughts about homeschooling in general that I wont get too much into; I went to private and then public school so I think the paranoia is misplaced. I found public school freeing and if you live in the bible belt, everyone is a ‘Christian’.

    I kind of get the perspective that abuse can happen regardless, which is true, but I think this kind of severe abuse would have been noticed in public school. If nothing else, at least the kids would probably be getting fed.

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  12. Oh, this is so tragic. But unfortunately we have seen this too many other times. I homeschooled our five kids for 23 years as well, and I can attest to the fear mongering from HSLDA and the homeschool community I used to belong to.

    “I had a paper taped to the inside of my kitchen cupboard that listed what to do if child protective services or the police came to our front door.”

    I had that piece of paper as well, but mine was in my windowsill!

    I know many large, healthy families, but I also know of some that felt shamed into having large families. Maybe it was the legalistic teachings at their church? The desire to “look” the part?

    Within my homeschool group, the family culture just oozed arrogance and condescension regarding those who used the public school, even to the point of wanting legislation to get rid of public school completely. The rhetoric was that we homeschoolers could do it so much better.

    I know this isn’t everyone’s homeschool experience. I’m not against homeschooling either.

    I hope things will change and improve.

    My prayers are with those poor kids. So sad.

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  13. It’s just a bit disappointing to read negative remarks about families who trust God in this area of their lives.

    Salty, I have no issue with people having large families provided they take care of them, but when people saying things like ‘trust God in this area of their lives’ it draws a line between you, who ‘trust God’, and people who might use birth control, who by default ‘don’t trust God’. That’s likely to put people off.

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  14. Salty, “But there are families who trust God with their family size who are relatively normal and simply don’t want to use drugs to stop something God has said is a blessing.”

    I must respectfully disagree. I grew up the youngest in a family of five. Not a “large” family by patriarchal standards. I think there is a lot of scripture twisting on children. Parents are not automatically given the grace to handle large families. My parents definitely were not. I was the hidden child, not because I wanted to be hidden, but because whatever needs or desires I made known to my parents that did not fit in their model were squashed severely. I learned quickly that the squeaky wheel got the spanking. Public school was the only place I was somewhat free to safely be who I really was, and it seems many fundamentalist families don’t provide their children a safe environment to explore. I was part of a patriarchal, homeschooling church, and those kids only spread their wings when they could escape their parents. It was shocking and amazing to see families disintegrate once the children were unshackled.

    So, I think that statements like ‘children are a blessing’ and ‘children are a gift from God’ have to be taken in context with other Old Testament verses. For example, the Jews had the same idea about wealth. Wealth was a sign of God’s blessing. The rich were seen as amazingly righteous and someone like Job was seen to be cursed by God. This was so much in place that the disciples were aghast when Jesus said it is hard for the rich to enter the Kingdom of Heaven – if those who were obviously being blessed for their righteousness couldn’t get to Heaven, then who could?

    I want to put it in a different perspective. Is this all about you, or do your children matter? What I mean is if you bring another child into the world, can that child expect to be raised as true son or daughter? Will they have the attention and care that they need, or will they be passed off to another child to be raised. Look at the Duggars. They don’t have enough attention to raise their kids, so they have kids raising kids. My wife was in that situation. She changed diapers, fed and even slept with her younger siblings when they were scared. Her mom took care of the youngest and passed the rest off to their older siblings. Is that the sort of parenting a child deserves, or is that a system designed to stroke someone’s ego?

    Let me also challenge another viewpoint. The Bible does not say that God will not give us more than we can handle. The Bible says only that God does not put us in a situation where we have to sin. That doesn’t mean that we as Christians can’t then choose the wrong path. As such, God doesn’t miraculously protect us from the consequences of our actions. Look at this family. Ostensibly Christian, yet the parents are not protected by the complete folly and wickedness of their decisions. God will let them rot in jail. When we foolishly take on more than we can handle, God doesn’t necessarily clear the path for us. We get natural consequences. I fully believe my parents to be Christians, yet in my life, they were completely overwhelmed by parenting five children. We weren’t even homeschooled.

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  15. Why is everyone trying to dissect and diagnosis this mess? Its clear that both these parents have some mental issues and it likely has been in the works for a long time and family likely questioned it and that is why they separated and isolated themselves from anyone who saw what was going on. We have fractured people in our society, we have homeschoolers with lots of kids and happened to be Christian or not that are wonderful parents and people in their communities and raise solid children. Lets keep the specifics of the case where they should be and leave religion and homeschooling out of it. Heck we have teachers in our district who never get off their cell phones and other teachers talk about it with the students who complain, never teach a child anything, or they yell non-stop at the children to which the office can hear and the officials and professionals act like they know, hear, or see nothing…we have a broken school system in most states, so lets just stick to the facts here and stop trying to act as if public school is the answer because we all know better.

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  16. Just want to clarify. My objection is to the “trusting God with their family size”, and “blessing”, not that all parents of large families are weird.

    Also, consider Jesus who said, “For the Son of Man is to go just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

    Isn’t Jesus contradicting Psalm 127 – “children are the Lord’s good gift”?

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  17. When you are surrounded by people who believe you must trust God about the size of your family, it can be very difficult to keep up. In my case, I could have had babies every single year. Around the clock breastfeeding did not keep me “safe” from pregnancy as it does most moms. I ovulated within a couple of months after delivery.

    I would have been in the nuthouse with that many children. I know my limitations and consequently, I would have been labeled as not trusting God. Guilty as charged.

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  18. “I want to put it in a different perspective. Is this all about you, or do your children matter? ” Thank you for that, Mark.
    Stacy – the ‘broken public school system’ doesn’t chain children to their beds and they are fed in the mornings(as Lea has pointed out). I don’t think anyone with a lick of sense can read this story and not come to the realization that if those children had been in public school, we wouldn’t be reading this horrid tale. That is a fact.

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  19. It was shocking and amazing to see families disintegrate once the children were unshackled.

    Mark, I can see that. How sad. My parents are wonderful and my family was not large. I had none of these particular issues. But even so, they were rather strict and the times I was at a sleepover, or with other family, and we watched slightly less apple dumpling gang type movies, or got to stay up late, or what have you, were freeing. I went to school a long way away, and that was freeing. I would absolutely have rebelled if my parents had been these iron fist people, and I think that’s maybe what you’ve seen.

    Lets keep the specifics of the case where they should be and leave religion and homeschooling out of it.

    Stacy, I do think those parents were disordered. But religion and homeschooling have been linked and not by us. People can homeschool and not be religious, but you can’t discount that there is a movement of people dedicated to convincing people that homeschooling is the only ‘godly’ way to raise kids.

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  20. Welcome to all the new visitors. Feel free to join the discussion. I’m a full time student and your comment may get suck in moderation for a few minutes, but I’ll try to keep up as best as I can. After your first comment is approved, the rest will not be moderated.

    This is a blog dedicated to discuss abuse within Christian groups, churches, communities.

    😊

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  21. Stacy, this is the result of bad theology. Couples who are fed the lie that God will magically give them the grace to care for as many children as he gives them and act on that lie are going to put themselves in bad situations.

    And, many lies have their basis in truth. Children ARE a blessing, generally. But Satan takes that truth and twists it into some idea that the primary purpose of marriage is being a ‘blessed baby factory’.

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  22. I’m grateful to Julie Anne and the SSB community for bringing attention to the ideologies that spawn this kind of abuse.

    I am concerned about the media’s voracious appetite for clickbait. In particular, there are stories out now about the estrangement from extended family being suspect behavior. Give me a break. My family is dysfunctional AF. I’m sure they’d love their 15 minutes of fame.

    We DO know that there are certain patterns of fear-mongering and control in the P/QF teachings. Thank you for focusing on those.

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  23. This destructive, evil family cult is unusual only because of the size of the family and number of victims.

    This kind of tragedy happens on a much smaller scale in other families, and sometimes involves just one parent and one child in the family, while the other children are allowed to grow up. This is what happened in my family (one abusive divorced father, one sibling prevented from growing up mentally, emotionally, forced to completely identify with and be subservient to the father, not allowed a real adult life, couldn’t have their own car, sleep deprivation, isolation, brainwashing, etc.) It is a horror show. I can’t imagine how awful it is when it involves a family of 15.

    I think the most important things for people to note about Mr. and Mrs. Turpin:
    (1) they are healthy and robust, taking diligent care of themselves, (2) their behavior and antics are a dramatic display of full blown narcissism and delusional fantasy thinking (i.e. Multiple vow renewal ceremonies, tux and bridal gowns, matching uniforms for children, Disney obsession), and (3) they have an absolute lack of awareness of their depravity, cruelty and criminality toward their children.

    My take is that the parents are using all means possible to force their offspring to remain children for life, and be utterly dependent on the parents. They don’t want their children to develop physically, mentally, emotionally into mature people. They want their children to be frail, small, weak, incompetent and therefore be unable to leave the parents. And just in case, they use chains to prevent leaving.

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  24. In particular, there are stories out now about the estrangement from extended family being suspect behavior. Give me a break. My family is dysfunctional AF.

    I don’t think it’s suspect behavior in and of itself. However, when a family is like this, often times grandparents or other close family might be the first to notice and comment. I can see it being similar to other kinds of abuse (or maybe, rather it’s the same thing, I would not be at all surprised if the husband was abusive to the wife), where the abuser cuts someone off from their family.

    Most red flags are like this, really. One thing is not usually a problem, but when you start adding them up? Problem.

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  26. Stacy, “Why is everyone trying to dissect and diagnosis this mess?”

    Because if we don’t we are cursing a subset of our children forever to grow up malnourished, abused, chained to beds. We need to understand how to provide these children the rights they have without taking away the rights of the parents.

    I agree with the idea that children ought to have the right to see a mandatory reporter at least once a year. Children will still fall through the cracks, I’m sure, but I think it’s a big step in the right direction.

    “we have a broken school system in most states”

    This is a lie you’ve been fed. There are good districts and bad districts, but overall, the system produces reasonable output. I grew up in a mediocre district and my wife was homeschooled. We decided to homeschool and joined HSLDA, at which point we got fed endless propaganda about how horrible public schools were, how horrible government officials were and how we needed to pay them each year to protect us. Then we got propaganda from their affiliated organizations, like ParentalRights.org and ADF, all making government out to be a bunch of people single-mindedly out to destroy Christianity.

    We finally gave up on homeschooling our first child, and sent her to public school. Her first teacher was a Christian. Her second teacher was an Atheist, but we never had any issues. I was not prepared for what happened. We were asked to volunteer. My wife volunteered every week, and I volunteer every other week. The principals and teachers thank us for coming into the school and helping out. That’s not to say we haven’t had issues, but we don’t have ‘typical’ children. I don’t know if it’s just this district or the attitude towards parents participating has changed overall. When I was younger, I don’t think parents were as welcome in school.

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  28. Song of Joy, great insight!

    Completely agree!

    I agree with the idea that children ought to have the right to see a mandatory reporter at least once a year.

    I think children should have mandatory testing of some kind. The biggest danger I see in homeschooling is not abuse, but kids falling behind due to parents who are out of their depth and at the very least this would give you an idea if they are keeping up. But it would as a side benefit, at least require the kids to be seen by a professional of some kind once a year who would hopefully detect that a 17 year old looked far younger than their age and give the opportunity to the kids to meet with an adult who they could confide in if necessary. And that would probably be a good check on this type of severe abuse.

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  29. I’m a teacher in a school, and I believe school is the best environment for most kids (I know we could have a lot of dialog about problems within schools, but that’s my opinion). I also have friends, both Christian and other, who homeschool for many reasons-they want more time with their kids, they may travel for work so they can always take “school” with them, they have a special needs child that doesn’t fit into any of the options offered by the local school, it fits their theological bent, they live in a horrible school district (that is the one I hear most often). I’ve only seen one case out of about 20 homeschool families I have known that has really been unhealthy, and those parents realized it and put their children back in regular school after they had completed elementary at home.

    All that to say that the case of the Turpin’s is an aberration. If a 29-year old adult “child” is allowing his/her parents to shackle him/her to a bed, and accepts not being properly fed, then something is very wrong. If these people are even Christians, they have a very strange Gospel.

    Homeschooling would never be my choice, I definitely do not have issues with birth control (but am against abortion), and I think we need to be careful that we don’t paint all homeschooling families, or large families, with the same brush.

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  30. Mark and JA, I appreciate your comments.

    You make some really good points Mark.

    I’ve done my time with quiverfull sects ‘churches’ and know of several large families where it later came out that the children were neglected and ended up hating their parents and God.

    I’m not at the stage yet where I’m struggling to manage being a SAHM. Thank God for that. But I’m not going to homeschool either.

    Nor do we ‘go to church’ or associate with quiverfull families. It’s just a personal stage I’m at and maybe in time God will show me a different perspective.

    Keep in mind, it’s very hard to unravel the doctrines within these fundamentalist groups. It’s taken several years to get me to where I am now. It’s not easy to change your thinking overnight.

    The wife in this story appears to have grown up with a ‘pastor’ as a Dad and also I read she was abused as a child. The fact she was estranged from her parents tells me she didn’t want a relationship with them. It’s possible they were abusive and her abusive behaviour is simply a flow on effect of childhood abuse. No excuses, but an explanation for her behaviour perhaps? The fact that police said she was confused and puzzled when arrested is telling. She likely thought her actions were godly and righteous. I wonder what her upbringing was like.

    So sad. I hope the kids and adult children get a lot of support.

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  31. <

    blockquote>Also, control freaks react badly when someone gives them advice. I can absolutely see that happening with family.

    You make good points, but this one goes both ways. I realize now that part of the reason I joined a cult in the first place was to escape my dysfunctional family. Since leaving the cult, the dysfunction now has to be faced. First my mother cut us off. Now my father is using his finances to isolate us and manipulatively cut us off from the rest of the family. So, I’m reading these reports from estranged family from another perspective. There’s just too many dynamics involved to take it at face value.

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  32. this one goes both ways

    I can definitely see that. We know, with this family, that the family itself is a wreck so it’s easy to see it as a red flag. But extended family could be also. What a mess.

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  33. Salty, “It’s just a personal stage I’m at and maybe in time God will show me a different perspective.”

    Yes, this. I think God showed me the consequences of the theology I held when I was younger. There was a process of gradual awareness where I began to see that it was a systemic failure and not a few bad apples. Yes, there were bad apples, but moreso there were good people trying to prop up a bad system.

    All this to say that, as long as you are open to God leading you a different direction, I think you are in a healthy place. This family sacrificed everything on the altar of patriarchy and quiverfull, despite God providing ample evidence that it wasn’t working.

    I think in some sick and twisted way, the Turpin parents feel that they are obeying God and doing what’s best for their children. Yes, there is probably a lot of narcissism, manipulation and falsehood, but they are badly, badly deceived. I believe this because my parents also spiritually and emotionally abused us in the name of Christ, and it was the same deception my church was teaching. I fell into that trap with my first and thought I was obeying God. It was my wife who woke up to that failure and dragged me kicking and screaming out of it.

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  34. Something else usually stressed in the P/QF ideology is “parental rights.” It’s usually juxtaposed with the evil State infringing on those rights by, say, inquiring about the child’s education. And the parents in this ideology continue exerting their “rights” long after their children have reached the age of majority.

    Liked by 1 person

  35. I think Julie Anne has pointed out in blog posts past that any laws/associations pertaining to homeschool parents give rights to the parents, not to the children. Here we have a situation which clearly – and tragically – underlines that truth.

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  36. “My take is that the parents are using all means possible to force their offspring to remain children for life, and be utterly dependent on the parents. They don’t want their children to develop physically, mentally, emotionally into mature people.”

    I have to agree Song of Joy. The Quiverful element is glaring. It looks like that was a huge part of the parent’s identity. It defined them. The kids were a means to an end.

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  37. Salty…
    I feel the need to comment because we too…have a large “unconventional” family. We currently have seven very healthy, normal children (ages 16-3) with one on the way. We also home educate. We take our kids to the orthodontist, the dentist, the doctor and anything else everyone with a “smaller” family does for their kids. Yes, we are loud. We laugh a lot. We have hens in our backyard. We shop at Costco and you don’t even want to know how much food costs. Some days at hard. Some are fantastic. The laundry never ends. But…We just like having a big family. There IS a way to have s big family without being freaks, without abuse and without religious fanaticism.

    My eldest two children are in a large, national, Christian based homeschool speech and debate organization and we travel to various competitions, including across country. Our eldest son is the top speaker in our state and his public speaking and debate education is fantastic. There are lots of large homeschool families that we meet and none of them are “freaks.” They are competent young adults in business suits and skirts debating the morality of pre-emptive warfare (or not) and learning to write entire speeches on topics they value. These kids end up with scholarships to various colleges. I know my kids will be as successful as they want to be in life.

    We are a large family.

    And we like it.

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  38. Just wanted to add to, or clarify when I said “They want their children to be frail, small, weak, incompetent”.

    When I say “incompetent”, I am referring to a state of abused helplessness that has been viciously imposed on them by their parents, just like the frail health and small statures are a result of long-term cruelty and deprivation, and NOT through any fault of their own.

    These abused children and adults have enormous intrinsic worth. Each and every one of them has latent talents, unique abilities, intelligence, creativity, strength and courage. They’ve been denied the opportunity to flourish and enjoy a normal life, a life they have a right to experience! May they now go on to be healthy, stand tall and strong in this life.

    Liked by 3 people

  39. May they now go on to be healthy, stand tall and strong in this life.

    Here here.

    They are competent young adults in business suits and skirts debating the morality of pre-emptive warfare (or not) and learning to write entire speeches on topics they value. These kids end up with scholarships to various colleges.

    Just fyi, public school kids do this too.

    Liked by 2 people

  40. Lea,
    Thank you. I am, of course, aware that public schoolers do this too. My comment was in regards to homeschool and specifically the many homeschool families that we personally know. My original point being, not every large home-educating family isolates their children from regular activities or keeps them from doctors and abuses them. But these families we hear about with the horror stories….OY. They’re probably the very minority, but it sets everyone’s teeth on edge and automatically creates a “large homeschooling families are freaks” stigma. There are a lot of us who are fairly “normal.”
    I sincerely hope all the victims in the above story get the help they need and deserve.

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  41. @Chewing Crayons: “And we like it.”

    My point above. Define “WE”. I grew up in a family with five children. I’m sure my parents would crow about how amazing we are, and there were plenty of families in the church that reinforced that message.

    But… My needs were not being met. Yes, I was fed and clothed. Yes, I was educated, but emotionally, my parents had zero emotional energy to meet my emotional needs. They were done at four and I was an oops. #4 completely sapped them and I was a good kid so I got very very little time and attention, virtually all of which was negative. When I brought home straight “A’s”, no one cared. When I brought home a “D” I got some attention.

    My parents “liked it”. They got praise from all their peers about how smart we were and how obedient we were and how we sat quietly in church and how well we did in school and how they must be wonderful parents.

    I had zero emotional intelligence when I left for college. What I learned about relationships was sugar-coated churchese (God will make it happen in his time) or what I watched in movies and sitcoms. I couldn’t even talk about relationships in my family because they would mock and ridicule me once they knew which girl I liked. (I’m betting my siblings’ emotional intelligence was about zero, too!)

    Liked by 2 people

  42. Mark,
    I hear you and you make good points. It takes effort and time to emotionally connect with our children regardless if we have one child or ten. Our kids personally ask for “another baby” from time to time, and when we ask them if they like being in a big family they say “yes.” That may change over time, but I hope it doesn’t. Investing individually in each child is work, but it’s always worth it. We find their likes, talents and aim them toward those. This means we have kids in sports, music lessons, choir, art, debate, etc. I know I cannot personally meet every single need they will ever have at the moment they have it, but who can, realistically? I surround my kids with other people who love them such as aunts, uncles, grandparents, coaches and teachers who can and do invest in them as well. It’s a balancing act but well worth it.
    Mark, I’m so sorry your folks didn’t invest in you they way you needed and wanted. I am thankful, however that they DID have you. Your voice is important, and so are you. And I hope one day my own kids will feel thankful to have been born into our family.
    Blessings.

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  43. So, I think we have another red flag – support network. We have a hard time juggling our three with just a few extracurriculars because we have very little support, and my parents and in-laws, likewise did not have a support network. Although, in our case, it is not because we don’t want a support network, but there is none available. In my parent’s and in-laws case, I’m not sure whether it was none available, or whether they turned away help.

    Liked by 1 person

  44. Here’s more damning information. This is sexual abuse, yet she doesn’t call it that. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear about other sexual incidents with their own children.

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  45. This case is a glaring example of why California needs to legislate at least some oversight of homeschooling. At present there is none and it’s totally possible to keep kids out of any public exposure that might reveal abuse. While the abuse is far more horrific than most, this is far from an isolated case of a child “home schooled” hidden behind closed doors and abused. I live close to this and a couple of other cases that gained national attention.

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  46. We, unfortunately, took all of our 6 children to the Bill Gothard seminars. Only one took to a cultish extent. We have been concerned for 20+ years for one of our daughters. She and her husband went the Quiverfull route starting in the ‘90’s.They now have 8 children. In 200 they moved 900 miles away to a remote isolated area.They should have had no more than 2 children by their own admission . Four years ago the then 12 year old stood up in church and in front of the entire congregation said she wished she were dead. She also asked her Dad” If you didn’t want us why did you have us.” There was definite abuse going to our daughter as well as our grandchildren. My husband has gone up several times to take care of basic needs that her husband should have done. At one time the kids had no shoes. For two years her husband didn’t speak to our daughter or give her any money because he felt she had disrespected him. Thusis just the tip of the iceberg to this long sad tale. An event happened 6 months ago that was so bad we knew as grandparents we needed to call CPS. My husband made the call. He was sick for a week after, but knew he did the right thing. The other grandparents were complicit. Every time we called them with concerns they told us we were gossiping.

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  47. My heart broke for these kids when I saw their pictures. Not one of these looks to be of adult age. The kids seem to only be a way to show off the parents (same hair styles and clothing) than show off their individuality.

    These kids are going to deal with mental and physical health issues for the rest of their lives. I hope the community is willing to wrap their arms around them and get them on the road to healing.

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  49. Concernedgrandparents,

    What a heartbreaking story you have dealt with. Thank God your husband did the right thing and called CPS. How are they now? Is your daughter still together with her husband? My heart goes out to you!

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  50. Concernedgrandparents – Your husband did the right thing. I hope that they had a positive response from CPS. Have you been able to speak to your daughter and grandchildren since then? Thank you for caring enough for your grandchildren that you were willing to do something hard that might help them.

    Liked by 1 person

  54. Julie Anne and Kathi,

    Our daughter has not said a word about CPS getting involved. However, she has been in touch with our youngest son and has said that the 15 year old is going to a psychologist .
    And she is very unhappy when she is asked to leave the room so the psychologist can speak with the 15 year old alone.we know CPS has to be involved because she and her husband would NEVER have allowed any family member to seek counseling. That is a big NO NO in Gothardland.

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  55. Yes, you’re right, it is a NO NO. Well, I’m glad that the 15 yr old is getting help. That was huge for them to allow your grandchild to seek mental health care. I hope things improve for your daughter and her family. Please keep us posted!

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  56. I think CPS gave them no choice. They would never have done allowed it unless they were forced to do so.

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  58. I wonder how many families have stories to tell, but are afraid to share. I wonder how many families care, but are afraid to confront and/or share. It is very scary. The questions we came down to were “Are we willing to risk the relationship we have with our daughter and grandkids , even knowing some of the kids are in danger?” “ Or can we trust God enough to do the right thing, even if it means breaking the relationship.” At the end of the day it came down to “ Can we live with ourselves if one of the kids die. And after much thought, prayers and agony we decided to call CPS.

    I don’t want this post to be about me and my family. I want it to be about those who could have helped the Turpin kids, but didn’t want to get involved. I am positive there are many families who need someone to make that call. It is your business. It is not gossip.

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  59. Concernedgrandparents: You are so right. It is because of people like you that I share stories like this. It took me reading personal stories to realize that I had been in a cult. Please do not ever feel bad about sharing your story. Trust me, someone is reading your words and challenging themselves. This article has skyrocketed in blog hits. It is always my prayer that the words we share may help someone make positive choices and leave harmful situations (or report harmful situations).

    We have so many lessons to learn from the Turpin family.

    Liked by 3 people

  60. This is a comment, not about the horrific abuse, but about one aspect of it’s analysis.
    “Here is a family that thinks it’s a joke to number everyone rather than give them names and refer to them as “things”.” – David Canter.

    I feel like maybe the forensic psychologist from England, David Canter, is making too much of the Disney souvenir shirts (or even of a family that chose matching dresses for a wedding setting). If you’ve every been to either of the major Disney parks, east coast or west, you see tons of families that purchase these Thing 1,2,3,etc. shirts. Especially if they are at all Dr. Seuss fans. Do we attribute devaluing/non-naming of people to those families? $.02.

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  61. Scott – you make a good point. We wouldn’t think anything of it here because Dr. Seuss is pretty cool and Thing 1, 2, is funny. However, maybe Dr. Canter is looking at the whole picture and how the children really aren’t treated as individuals, but just “things” to be used for the parents’ purposes to show off the kids. And all of the group shots of the children and adult children they are wearing matching clothes, matching hairstyles. There is no autonomy, no individual thought. When you look at it like that, it is pretty bizarre.

    When I think of my kids, they were all so unique. My eldest daughter was a tomboy, never liked girly things. My 2nd daughter is a girly-girl, not a tomboy, but loves competitive volleyball. You can see their individuality and their personalities in the way they dressed, in their activities, etc. I don’t think we can see that in the Turpin children. If it looks like a cult and smells like a cult . . . .

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  62. I really appreciate the comments that have been made about a culture of fear in some homeschooling communities. That was certainly my experience. I came to realise that I had made many decisions based on a fearful “what if”, or scary stories from other countries even. They weren’t based on actual facts, like reports from local schools or actually living in a bad district or anything like that. There’s a lot of scare mongering, and in my experience it can easily lead to isolationism and fear of letting your kids do anything in case they get corrupted by the world. Families who wouldn’t let their kids do any kind of out-of-home activities unless they were organised by Christian groups. And it resulted in a lot of judgment when I announced that my child was going to school. It was the best decision for her, and she is thriving, but apparently that’s not good enough for our former homeschool group, and I have made an unChristian decision in their eyes.

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  63. I wonder how many families care, but are afraid to confront and/or share. It is very scary.

    If you confront someone about something like this, they might cut you out of their lives. If it is a less severe issue (not hurting their health), you might decide it’s better to keep your mouth closed and remain in the family so at the very least the kids know they have people who love them and will be there if needed.

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  64. And so you can monitor the situation to see if it has gotten bad enough that you must act. It’s a hard thing. Aunts/uncles/counsins/Grandparents don’t generally have legal rights to the kids not granted by the parents.

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  65. This is absolutely horrific! These parents are not Christians!

    We were compared to the Duggars while homeschooling. We only had six kids… lol

    Why did that neighbor that watched those kids being marched around at night, never report them? That is just weird!!

    We had a very bitter and mentally ill relative always threatening us. We never joined HDLS or whatever it was but we did register with our county because….. It was the law!!

    I also felt a lot better knowing that if mentally ill relative called on us that all I had to do was pull out my piece of paper showing them that we registered and had them evaluated every year.

    We can’t really control what people’s perception of us are. Who really cares. Sometimes you just have to find the humor in it. Example: Our two sons had on those fun military hats with nets over them. They were around 8 and 10 and were helping my husband on a Sat. st a job my husband was working on. They were also playing like little boys do. We had known this realtor for a couple of years and when she saw them playing in these hats, she freaked out and started asking if we were in some kind of militia group. I would have had a blast with that one and let her think whatever…. lol. My husband told her they got the hats for Christmas and loved to wear them.

    I think it’s really hard for people to understand why neighbors didn’t know there were even kids there. My kids played outside all the time! One day my son came running in and told me…… “ There are kids living next door!” We had been renting this house for 2 years and never saw them! He had just happened to catch them coming home from the bus stop. Yep! Public school! He was so excited and thought they might come out and play sometime but they never did. Go figure. The little boy told my son they lived there for a couple of years. We only saw the parents so we just never know.

    My heart breaks for these kids! Everybody needs to jump off the bandwagon of … Oh great! This will give all homeschoolers a bad name. No it won’t if you don’t abuse your kids!

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  66. Chewing crayons, thanks for your comment.

    Christianity and all its irks and quirks occupies a lot of my time.

    We are sending our kids to a Christian private school which has an excellent reputation in the community here. It is near impossible to homeschool where we live and tbh… I don’t think I have the skills and patience to do it. I don’t think it’s sinful to send kids to 4 hours of classes a day for tuition. No more sinful than sending them to 1 hour swimming lessons, 1 hour piano lessons and any other activity where the parents isn’t involved.

    I did homeschool for several years in high school but my parents weren’t religious at all. I had a breakdown due to family trauma and now I’m older and a parent it’s a serious life goal to raise happy and thriving children.

    I’m thankful for stories like yours and Mark’s. I want to raise children who will look back at their childhood with peace, knowing they’re loved and wanted.

    Mark, if I can ask you this please…

    As a parent, what can I do with and for my children that your parents failed to do with you?

    How can I analyse our current lifestyle and make changes to ensure our kids are cared for, considered and their emotional needs are met?

    Serious question.

    I want to get this right.

    Liked by 2 people

  67. This is all over the news out here in SoCal. Broke BIG Monday afternoon.

    Afternoon drive-time described the mug shots as “the father’s wearing a Pageboy haircut like Prince Valiant and the mother looks kinda normal except she’s got these hollow eyes.”

    I had a suspicion from the get-go that this was going to be a toxic Christian Quiverfull homeschooler situation. Some of the tipoffs:
    * All children dressed alike in every photo mentioned (commented on by afternoon drive-time).
    * All children Very Very Polite (MSNBC Newsfeed this morning; also confirmed family was “very Christian”).
    * Children only boarded or disembarked from the family stretch van at night, in single file (morning drive-time today).
    * Children always spoke in unison/in chorus, in a monotone (neighbors, as cited on morning drive-time today).
    * Home address was listed as a “day school”, with father as “Principal” and around seven students, each a different age and different grade level (yesterday when the story broke).
    * Family self-described as Pentecostal Christian, but no known affiliation with any church (MSNBC Newsfeed this morning; House Church(TM)?)

    And as is typical for such cases, all neighbors described them as “so very Nice people”.

    Does anyone know if Homeschoolers Anonymous is covering the story?

    Liked by 1 person

  68. I just checked, HUG, and there’s nothing there yet. But the last post was Dec. 17th, so I suspect someone is working on a story. 😦

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  69. “Betty Turpin told another outlet her son told her he had so many kids because God wanted him to, and that he shared her Pentecostal Christian faith but was not affiliated with a church in California.”

    This is a quote from one of the articles. Not very specific about their influences.

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  70. @Lea:

    If you confront someone about something like this, they might cut you out of their lives.

    Is that anything like “NOBODY in THIS Family is an ‘Alcoholic’!”?

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  72. My take on this…..the parents were terrified of “loss”. What better way to prevent loss (child growing up and leaving) than to keep them “little” and dependent on you? Sad. Those kids for the most part had their spirits broken, as well as their bodies seriously impacted. I saw the original FB pictures of the kids….and none of them looked like adults at all. Some did not look “normal” (looked as if they had potential mental deficiencies). All from years of depravation?

    Children are not possessions….they are people!

    I personally have a “large” family….6 children. I had my last one only days before I turned 39. The pregnancy was difficult and high risk and I thank God that we both came out safely. As much as I love being a mom and having children…I had a tubal ligation at the same time I had the C-section with him. The risks were too high and birth control had not always worked too well for me. I knew the risks of genetic issues in children born to older mothers and while I would have never aborted nor rejected a child with disabilities….I knew in my heart that I could not knowingly spin that wheel and let come what may.

    While I DO believe that every child that is born is meant to exist and is a blessing from God, I also believe that we have the responsibility as human beings to make good and rational decisions about our everyday lives. WE have, after all, been ordained by God as caretakers of His creation. That’s a pretty serious job/responsibility. It calls for rational thinking and an involved mind/heart!

    For those that argue that birth control, etc interferes with God’s will/plans….do we really believe we as humans can get in the way of the will of the Almighty? If God’s plan is for someone to exist, no amount of human intervention will stop that. There are stories floating around out there that even after tubals and vasectomies, children have come to be. My parents used one of the least effective forms of birth control and yet there were only three of us. To an extent, I do agree….one has as many as God gives them. I think of the line from Spider-Man….”With great power, comes great responsibility”. Even having ONE child is a great responsibility.

    I’ve met people with large families that are thriving and have healthy, well-adjusted children….and frankly I believe that they have succeeded as they have tremendous support systems and connections to community. I’ve watched those with “larger” families be belittled and more or less emotionally run over (one of my Dad’s cousins had four children along with physical problems that kept him from getting decent paying jobs to support them….never heard the end of the vicious gossip.) Small family, large family…..couples who choose to have no children….none of them deserve to be attacked. For the sake of the family, offering our emotional support is the better choice.

    Having quite an age gap between my oldest and youngest…..I look back now and think, yes, it is HARD to individually connect to a larger number of children. It is also hard to connect individually with each child even in smaller families when one has serious physical, mental or emotional problems. I’ve seen that struggle….parents dealing with one “normal” child…and one other that is autistic, has a serious illness, etc. I cannot emphasize enough how much the support of the extended family and the community makes a difference to not only the parents….but to the “normal” kids!

    I live in PA, and the homeschooling laws are very strict here. One HAS to submit lesson plans to the district, etc and the children are tested academically every year by the district. Those who are doing homeschooling successfully either are teachers or are using ready-developed curriculum….or the kids are forming small classes that a parent with the teaching experience runs. We also have multiple state-run cyber schools that are for the most part excellent for those who want the home experience but want to avoid the immense amount of work involved in doing the planning and extensive record-keeping.. I am pretty shocked at how lax a lot of states are about homeschooling…and sadly, have seen it “used” to hide children that were being abused.

    My thoughts and prayers go out to these children/adults. Hopefully someone in the family will be able/willing to take them in.

    Liked by 1 person

  73. I am that aunt…my sister’s family was always borderline “to call/or not to call” (there were calls). I ended up raising her kids for several years. Thankfully, things got better, but now we are dealing with similar issues with one of her kids. In our case, it was all drugs and the lifestyle/people that come with it. At some point, you need to be watchful, but still live your own life and pray for wisdom when to “interfere.”

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  74. This is separate from the abuse aspect, but I think some families dress their kids alike when they go places like Disney because it makes it easier to see them. Like tours sometimes give all the kids the same tshirt, in bright colors?

    Liked by 1 person

  75. This family reminds me of a YouTube paranormal-story video I listened to last week. About a weird family implied to be shapeshifting Reptilians from inside the Hollow Earth trying to pass as human and not succeeding. All that’s missing is the lack of furniture in the house and diet of 100% raw meat (including disappeared neighborhood cats).

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  76. @Lea:

    This is separate from the abuse aspect, but I think some families dress their kids alike when they go places like Disney because it makes it easier to see them.

    But not ALL THE TIME.

    Liked by 1 person

  77. They live in Perris, California, not too far from Los Angeles.

    Perris is a smaller town in an arid inland valley SE of Riverside and San Bernardino, an area locally known as “The Inland Empire”. Location of both a railroad and trolley museum. Place is just starting to get built-up, with the latest Metrolink extension terminating at Perris (which has a long railroad history as part of the old San Jacinto Branch of the Santa Fe).

    Typical old Inland Empire town, just starting to get built-up. Gets very hot & dry in the summers.

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  78. Reading an article originally posted at HA. Came across this bit about housework. Can someone from the homeschooling world tell me what is being taught about housework?

    If they come over to your house for some reason, a meal for example, don’t let them/ask them to help with dishes. Don’t let them/ask them to help with anything, including table washing or sweeping — or anything housework related. Chances are they have a ton of that at home, and they think it’s their duty in life. Give them ice cream or start them a movie, or talk to them happily as you wash their dish for them. It might be really confusing for them. But it will be good.
    (https://www.responsiblehomeschooling.org/40-ways-to-help-homeschool-kids-in-bad-situations/)

    If not germane to this thread, can take off topic.

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  79. “Can someone from the homeschooling world tell me what is being taught about housework?”

    I can only speak from my own experience here. A lot of household chores were divided up according to “gender roles.” Even when we ate dinner at someone else’s home, all the women and girls were expected to clear the table, wash dishes, and clean the kitchen immediately after dinner. (I guess that’s not all bad. I wash a lot of dishes daily. If I didn’t, I imagine my home would quickly resemble the descriptions of the Turpin family homes.)

    I think what the Responsible Homeschooling article is aiming at is to allow a child to actually feel valued as a guest. You, as the host, have an opportunity to serve them. An experience they probably aren’t accustomed to.

    Liked by 1 person

  80. This is fine to discuss. We are discussing various aspects of homeschooling and because there are a lot of visitors, it’s helpful for them to read from those who are or have homeschooled.

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  84. I don’t know how the Turpin’s marriage started out, but it obviously devolved with each additional child. Outside the obvious torture, it appears the parents were exhibiting unbalanced behavior by acting out a shared delusion. Mom seemed to have arrested development and acted like a pre-teen who continues to enact her fantasies. (frequent weddings and trips to Disney).
    I can’t figure out dad. His behavior shows a desire for power/control. He plays the “protective husband”. And the kids. Who knows? Maybe each baby represents another piece of their “fantasy world”. The more often an individual lives in isolution, the easier to brainwash children and also believe one’s own delusions. Mom may see her children as objects who have no needs or feelings. Their purpose is to validate her worth. (Especially if she came from an abusive family.)
    Dad is probably boss and orchestrates the family values and activities. All in all, I do not believe these child have any sense of personhood or autonomy. It will be a long time before they can learn their value as a humans and discover their own needs and learn to ask for getting needs met. Now they probably feel like
    empty vessels.
    I pray that each tortured child finds a safe person who can help them make a healthy attachment and help them learn their own value. Jesus spoke about hurting the “least of these”. I hope God extends extra mercy toward these victims and hold them close.
    Dad and mom-hopeless and toxic. Their kids need no more trauma!

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  85. “Mom may see her children as objects who have no needs or feelings. Their purpose is to validate her worth. (Especially if she came from an abusive family.)”

    I’ve been trying to find more info on the extended family. I read FB comments from people who went FaceBook snooping when the account was still up. That’s not exactly a reliable source. I’m only posting this link with the disclaimer that it is considered to be a tabloid. However, they take their info from books written by Louise Turpin’s sister, Elizabeth Flores. In them, she details the abuse she suffered as a child. It does appear that Louise comes from an abusive, dysfunctional family.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5367175/turpin-family-sister-of-hell-house-mum-reveals-their-own-abusive-childhood-and-how-she-watched-her-mother-get-raped/

    Maybe Lea or someone else with psychology training can do a better job of connecting the dots than I can. What occurs to me is that maybe Louise Turpin, like I did, thought that the Patriarchy/Quiverfull ideology would offer her more security and assurance than the life she grew up with. Of course, I and many others who have come out of it know how much of a lie and a trap it is. I’m not excusing her abominable treatment of her children. I’m just trying to understand some of the weird vibes I’m getting from this family’s behavior.

    Liked by 1 person

  86. Julie Anne, I’m new here and found you through a search about the Turpins.

    First, I want to say that your point about HSLDA feeding paranoia is something I’ve never realized but it rang so true.

    I homeschooled my kids and tested every year including SATs and ACTs in high school. They always did extremely well. However, I was very aware of not letting them play outside when they were young except during “normal” hours when other public school kids went out. We steered clear of stores where people might question us even though our state fully allowed homeschooling. I kept my HSLDA “fear list” in my coat closet at all times, just in case the authorities showed up. (My kids were happy, healthy, and well educated. Why was I supposed to be so terrified?!) I’m sure I made my kids fearful.

    As time moved on, we left HSLDA and steered clear of the patriarchal cult. We could smell that trouble a mile away and saw the damage coming out of it early on, though we were ostracized by many for our “liberal” views, like, you know, believing women (as well as the daughters) had roles other than keeping sweet and keeping their men happy at all times and at all costs to their own well being. We referred to them as the FLDH: Fundamentalist Latter Day Homeschoolers, after the extremist Mormon group (the FLDS) run by Warren Jeffs. Some very concerning similarities.

    Thank you again for pointing out this “spirit of fear” that HDLDA trades in, and that the Bible clearly tells us we are NOT to have. It’s a control mechanism and part of the bigger picture that includes these fundamentalists. And they ALWAYS refused to admit many homeschools were a flat out screwed up mess and some were dangerously so. They were finally forced to speak up after the Doug Wilson and crowd disaster but that was far too little and far too late. I forecasted years ago that if they refused to tell the truth and examine and clean their own house, God would do it for them. We have certainly seen that come to fruition in so many areas. I will be very interested to know if this family were HSLDA members.

    What a tragedy of nearly unthinkable proportions. May those precious children get the help they need and the love they so deserve. And may the parents get all they deserve as well, in spades.

    Please, everyone, don’t ignore the bizarre or the violent or obvious neglect, as so many of their neighbors did. We may be the only voice a victim ever has.

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  87. @Ann:

    All in all, I do not believe these child have any sense of personhood or autonomy. It will be a long time before they can learn their value as a humans and discover their own needs and learn to ask for getting needs met. Now they probably feel like empty vessels.

    And will try to stay “filled” by returning to the situation?
    Defending Mommy & Daddy against Persecution?

    “He who was born in a cage
    Yearns for his cage.
    With horror I understand
    That I Love My Cage.”
    — Yevgevny Yevtushenko, Soviet-era Russian poet

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  88. @BTDT:

    “David Turpin, he said, also was charged with a lewd act on a child by force or fear of duress.”

    That goes with the Patriarchy shtick.
    Paterfamilias has total sexual rights over all his animate property.
    If nothing else, “Why Not?”

    @Ann:

    Mom seemed to have arrested development and acted like a pre-teen who continues to enact her fantasies. (frequent weddings and trips to Disney).

    That also goes with the Patriarchy shtick.
    Keep Widdle Wifey a sweet child (with benefits, of course).

    And it looks like there was a LOT of Fantasy going round.

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  89. @Judith:

    Thank you again for pointing out this “spirit of fear” that HDLDA trades in, and that the Bible clearly tells us we are NOT to have. It’s a control mechanism and part of the bigger picture that includes these fundamentalists.

    FUNDAMENTALISM = FEAR.
    Where you find one you find the other.

    “FEAR ALWAYS WORKS!”
    — Acting Mayor Bellweather, Zootopia

    And they ALWAYS refused to admit many homeschools were a flat out screwed up mess and some were dangerously so.

    Closing ranks/circling the wagons against the HEATHENS outside.

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  90. FLDH: Fundamentalist Latter Day Homeschoolers

    Funny and accurate!

    I firmly believe homeschooling can be done well and that there is a place for it, but when it coupled with a ‘religious’ aspect, especially with large families, it cannot help but be done poorly too, even by people who mean well at times. Because if it isn’t working for a certain child, or a certain family, how can they adapt if they believe regular school is such an evil?

    I am primarily concerned about neglect of education and social outlets, although severe abuse like this is certainly easier to hide if there is no oversight. I recently learned that my own state used to have decent oversight but got rid of it for some reason a couple years ago! Disturbing.

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  91. Salty, “Mark, if I can ask you this please…”

    “As a parent, what can I do with and for my children that your parents failed to do with you?”

    I think that is different for every parent and every child. The #1 word for me is respect. I think I need to respect my children at the same time I expect them to respect me. Mostly this came from my wife – I think she was able to wake me up to things that weren’t working, which often put me in a cognitive dissonance between fundagelical theology and what just wasn’t working.

    The books that really changed how I looked at parenting:
    Boundaries – I began to understand the importance of respect and how that plays out in terms of discipline that respects children and yet helps them understand (mostly natural) consequences of their actions. I began to see how important it was to demonstrate that respect, so that they could see it in other people, or more importantly, see it lacking in other people.

    The Highly Sensitive Child – I began to understand that the way I was parented was the result of two sensitive and overwhelmed parents who didn’t really know how say no, and thus were constantly at the point of shutting down. This really changed our approach to discipline because we saw that the lesson we wanted our children to learn was lost in the fact that they were already overwhelmed and unable to listen.

    Siblings without Rivalry – This is more borderline and controversial, but this book again really challenged expectations of what was developmentally appropriate and how shutting down “negative” emotions does not help children process those emotions, but instead drives them out from the open.

    “How can I analyse our current lifestyle and make changes to ensure our kids are cared for, considered and their emotional needs are met?”

    I think this is uniquely difficult. My parents created a system that worked for them and gave them what they wanted to see. We children realized early on what behaviors were okay and what were not, so we knew what masks to wear in front of our parents. I’m sure that even as much as I’ve tried, my kids still wear masks around me, so I really don’t know what bad things I’ve created that they are hiding from me. One thing we have done on occasion is to ask our children whether they feel respected and happy and what we could do to improve (and not try to disagree or challenge, but ask for understanding).

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  92. @Lea:

    I recently learned that my own state used to have decent oversight but got rid of it for some reason a couple years ago! Disturbing.

    Which state is that?
    And are there any Christianese Culture War fingerprints on the removal of oversight?

    Liked by 1 person

  93. Thanks Mark. I’ve had Boundaries recommended by a couple of people now so I might have to read it.

    Appreciate your response.

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  94. The Turpins pled “Not Guilty” at their initial arraignment. This doesn’t eliminate the possibility of a hush-hush plea deal in the future, but the DA has his eyes on the Governor’s Mansion and is out for blood, so that didn’t seem too likely as of this morning.

    I really would like to see this get to open court with everything laid out on the table. See if there are any external Authorities (like ATI, Vision Forum, the Pearls, etc) that get dragged in. Or they ditch Counsel and try to defend themselves (with SCRIPTURE?). I’m pretty sure this is going to stay OJ-level high-profile for some time (if not in the mainstream media, tabloids & talk radio); both the cops and DA are saying this is the most extreme abuse case they’ve ever seen with new details surfacing daily.

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  95. Lea, “Can someone from the homeschooling world tell me what is being taught about housework?”

    I think the bigger problem is authority. We’ve interacted with children from various patriarchal families and we’ve had to essentially stop asking them to do things. In our family, there are things that “need” to be done and there are things that we “ask” to be done, but in patriarchal families, there is no difference, so the only things we ask are things that are house rules. For example, being “excused” from the table means taking your plate and silverware and putting them next to the sink (my children remind me often that I haven’t been excused, and we do the same).

    I was really angry one time, because I “asked” one of my children to do something in front of my patriarchal brother, and when she did not immediately comply, he yelled “NOW!”. (Thankfully she looked at him like he was joking) He then took me aside and told me how my “disobedient” children were setting a bad example for his children. I’ll just say that I’d rather stay in a hotel than at his house when we’re in town, and we’ve done that.

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  96. Salty, replace “Siblings without Rivalry” with “The Whole-Brain Child” and I can much more heartily recommend that one. Unfortunately, I read them back to back on a business trip and it was a blur. The Whole-Brain Child focuses on developmental stages in the brain and how the development (or lack thereof) of different parts of childrens’ brains will cause certain physiological responses that are barely controllable. (e.g. fight or flight). Siblings without Rivalry is more of a parenting approach cookbook that shows how our “typical” responses to situations have the wrong affect, although it controversial in that it might appear the authors are asking us to validate and coddle, perhaps, certain negative things in our kids. Some of the situations, to me, had a very reverse psychology element, which bothered me.

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  97. @Beentheredonethat

    “Maybe Lea or someone else with psychology training can do a better job of connecting the dots than I can. What occurs to me is that maybe Louise Turpin, like I did, thought that the Patriarchy/Quiverfull ideology would offer her more security and assurance than the life she grew up with. ”

    I don’t have psychology training, but I have been in an abusive marriage, and I have had dabblings with Quiverfull. So the following is just my opinion.
    Personally, I was drawn to that ideology (submissive wife, many children, modest dressing, home schooling etc etc) out of fear, although I didn’t realise it at the time. And because I don’t live in America, there weren’t many others around who felt like I did, so I (thankfully) didn’t get in very deep. What drew me was that it was like a formula: do xyz with your children and they will turn out perfect. Discipline them like this, train them like this, dress them like this, use this curriculum. Everything was laid out for you, and it promised results. It even based that in Scripture – train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it. So, see, even God promises that if you do things “right” (ie our way) your kids will turn out great, you will be blessed, they will be great warriors for the Lord.

    And when you’re a parent, you want to protect your kids from all the bad things in the world. So you buy into this theory. I didn’t really understand until I had my own kids, that sometimes the formula just doesn’t work. Like when you have an abusive husband and so your kids are afraid, and they get stubborn because God has given them defence mechanisms to protect them. Or when your child turns out not to be wicked and sinful and in need of correction, but autistic.

    So I already had my doubts. Then I began to realise that my husband was actually abusive, not just a stern-but-godly leader of the household. In addition, I met someone who I now consider to be one of my best friends. He is a loving, godly, compassionate man, who gasp went to public school!!!! And he still respects his parents and loves his sisters and serves as an elder in the church, all without being a complete jerk. He respects women. He respects me. It really opened my eyes, the day I realised I would rather my son turned out to be like this man than any home educated kid I had ever met. So I submitted, not to my husband but to God. I put my kids in school, I started listening to my body and dealing with the stress and anxiety. I got help for my marriage. I am beginning to be no longer afraid. And my childhood wasn’t even abusive, so I can totally understand how, for someone who was abused and afraid, the promise of security, direction and acceptance was very enticing. When you have been abused, you can hardly make a decision for yourself, so finding a man and a system which tells you exactly what to do and how to do it, that’s a perfect fit.

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  98. Which state is that?And are there any Christianese Culture War fingerprints on the removal of oversight?

    Arkansas. So probably. There was also a political shift in local politics. But this isn’t an issue I was paying much attention to.

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  99. I was really angry one time, because I “asked” one of my children to do something in front of my patriarchal brother, and when she did not immediately comply, he yelled “NOW!”.

    Wow mark. That would bother me too.

    I have a family member going this direction and the housework seems excessive and the ‘now’ aspect of it as well.

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  100. “Instant unquestioned obedience” Straight from Ezzo. Of course, their kids are perfect. Actually, I think the kids turned out well. They pretty much disowned their abusive parents.

    Perhaps not surprisingly, this is the expectation in fundamentalist churches. Parents who don’t follow the Ezzo/behavioralist approach are looked down on as lax and, of course their children will turn out horribly. I guess I’m still waiting. For all the questioning and “disobedience” we allow, we have teachers that tell us how much they love having our kids in class, and we’re in a pretty fundamentalist area, so I would expect there to be a lot of Ezzo-types around.

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  101. Liz, completely agree. It’s a really bad system. My in-laws were first generation Christians and wanted to do parenting “right”, so they sought advice from the church and from books by well-respected Christian authors. It was really messing the family up, because there were dynamics that weren’t in those picture-perfect families. When the failures started to show, the church didn’t come alongside and recognize the abuse. Instead, they tried to push the parents back into the abusive mold that they were trying to escape.

    As a 2nd generation in the model, again, my parents recognized the need for us to look like an amazing family so that they got the warm fuzzies from their church peers. We were surrounded by people who were reinforcing those very same things. Interestingly, I first recognized the church was abusive before I started to recognize the abuse in my own family.

    So, it’s really hard to escape. In fact, I think that there is a circular nature. My former church is attracting more and more conservative families and those families are having more of an impact on the general tone, which has gone from, I’ll say, conservative, but intellectual and reforming, to fundamentalist, authoritarian and anti-intellectual* (meaning that it’s okay for your pastor to be intellectual, but not YOU).

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