Christian Marriage, Courtship, Doug Wilson, Failure to Report Crimes, Marriage, Marriages Damaged-Destroyed by Sp. Ab., Patriarchal-Complementarian Movement, Sexual Abuse/Assault and Churches

Pastor Doug Wilson, A Serial Pedophile, and the Real Victims

Julie Anne

Pastor Doug Wilson and Ed Iverson encourage marriage of Pedophile Steven Sitler, Christ Church

Sins are like grapes; they come in bunches. ~Doug Wilson

Doug Wilson, Steven Sitler, Pedophile

I read a disturbing article yesterday that sent me reeling. I think we always want to hope for the best in people, but after having seen this pattern taken place so many times, those who were familiar with the story could see the inevitable train wreck before it took place. Our fears were in fact confirmed this week, and I am heartbroken.

Many times when we hear of breaking scandalous stories, the focus is on the perpetrator and those who enabled the abuse. The background to this story can be broken down into several important topics, and I hope other bloggers will cover some of the other aspects to this story. (A little bird told me that The Wartburg Watch will also be covering part of this story later today.) But for this initial post, the victims will be the primary focus, as they should be. They are the ones we need to protect and defend.

Background Information

In Fall of 2003, Steven Sitler moved from Moscow, Idaho to attend New Saint Andrews College (NSA). Sitler attended Christ Church, pastored by Doug Wilson. When he came to Moscow, ”No one knew at the time, however, that Steven Sitler was also a serial pædophile who preyed upon boys and girls, ages 2–12, and who left a trail of victims in at least two other states prior to his arrival in Moscow” (Source).

In March of 2005, the parents of one victimized child notified Doug Wilson, who advised them to retain the Christ Church’s attorney to accompany them as they notified legal authorities of the crime. This marks the beginning of Sitler’s legal issues.

About this time, Doug Wilson began counseling with Steven Sitler. To make a very long story short, Sitler was convicted, served time, took a plea deal, and will have supervised parole for the rest of his life.

A note of interest is the letter that Doug Wilson sent to the judge essentially defending Sitler and asking for leniency. Yes, you read that correctly – leniency for a serial pedophile! Doug Wilson told the Judge Stegner he had been providing counseling to Steven Sitler for only SIX times, gave him some books to read, and assignments to do between sessions. He stated that at the beginning of their counseling sessions, Sitler didn’t know the nature of his problem, but was later convinced that Sitler was open and honest when he confessed his thought life and behavior.  The final paragraph of Wilson’s letter reads:

I am grateful Steven was caught, and am grateful he has been brought to account for these actions so early in his life. . . . At the same time, I would urge that the civil penalties applied would be measured and limited. I have good hope that Steve has genuinely repented, and that he will continue to deal with this to become a productive and contributing member of society.

Ed Iverson and Doug Wilson Encourage Courtship and Marriage of Steven Sitler

Fast forward a few years and time served, and now a young lady is on the scene. Let me introduce you to Katie Travis. Katie had posted her personal story online, but it has since been taken down. But it is possible to piece together her story from others who have quoted the words from her online journal.

Katie moved to Idaho to attend New Saint Andrews College from Fallon, Nevada. She lived with the family of Ed Iverson whom she had known several years before arriving at NSA. Mr. Iverson was NSA’s librarian and also an elder at Doug Wilson’s church, Christ Church.  Reports are conflicting as to their relationship, whether he was her grandfather by blood or acted as a father figure, but it is clear that she looked to him as a respected father figure, and he readily assumed that trusted role in her personal life.

At the age of 23, Katie was at the prime of life, single, and ready to find a husband and start a family like all young ladies who are brought up in Patriarchy. In Christian Patriarchy circles, women are encouraged to marry young, so 23 years was pushing it. Several reports indicated that Katie felt the pressure to find a husband in short order because most of her friends were courting or married. She asked Mr. Iverson to assist her in finding a spouse, and he eagerly agreed.

Are you picking up on this culture? Katie asked a family friend to find someone to court. He was to choose for her, not the other way around. And this was normal and what Katie wanted.

On August 18, 2010, Mr. and Mrs. Iverson invited Steven Sitler to come to their home for dinner. This dinner was set up for the express purpose of introducing Steven and Katie for the possibility of a future courtship. “Ed Iverson’s description of Katie was that, though NSA was tough for her, she persevered through and she was, “pretty good looking, too” (Source).

While Doug Wilson and Ed Iverson were obviously fine with this possible courtship and marriage, it’s important to note that the Department of Corrections did not support the idea of marriage for Steven Sitler at all.

Steven posted his account of their joyous meeting on the internet:

“We met on August 18th, 2010 at the insistence of Mr. and Mrs. Iverson. One week later we were writing emails like it was going out of style. On Katie’s first visit back to Moscow in October, we had our first date, after which I asked her father if I could start courting her. I got the pleasure of spending Christmas break with Katie’s awesome family and decided on a whim to ask her to “merry” (misspelling intentional, more on that later) me on our second date. Of course it wasn’t really a whim, I had been meticulously planning it for months. She was shocked… and speechless, but finally she said yes, and the rest, as they say, is history. I love you., Katie” (The Real Doug Wilson Encouraged & Presided Over the Marriage of a Serial Pedophile).

Katie and Steven wed on June 11, 2011.  At one time, there was a video of the wedding posted online. It has since been removed, but here is a screenshot of the video. [Note: I was asked to remove the screenshot here.]

Breaking News for the Sitler Case

Yesterday, CorrectionsOne.com reported (my bolding):

“A Latah County 2nd District Court judge ordered Tuesday that a convicted sex offender, Steven Sitler, must continue to have an approved chaperone present, within his direct line of sight, at all times he is around his infant child in the wake of new disclosures of “contact resulting in actual sexual stimulation.”

This was the train wreck we feared. The article stated that Katie was now disqualified as a chaperone “for failure to report disclosures related directly to the couple’s son and Sitler was required to move out of their home” (Source).

Ok, this is just sad for all involved.  I have a lot to say about Doug Wilson but I’m biting my tongue for the moment. What I’d like to discuss is Katie.

Katie’s World as Wife and Mom

Katie and her infant son are victims of her husband’s criminal behavior. Imagine Katie being in a town away from parents and her own pastor and trusted father figure selected a serial pedophile for a husband. They had to convince her that Steven had repented. Who was she to second guess Mr. Iverson and Pastor Wilson?  They wouldn’t do anything to harm her, right?

In these circles, Katie would be expected to serve and submit to her husband and bear his children. But how does that work when the State says he can’t be around children? Doug Wilson knew this before he married them. Professionals warned that marriage was not a wise idea, but the State had no laws to prevent it from happening.

The article states that “the Idaho Department of Corrections would try to remove his wife and parents as chaperones.” This suggests to me that Katie and parents were not responsible in guarding the baby. Do you see this never-ending conflict? Katie of course wants her husband to have a relationship with his son, but yet she also has to police him? How does this work in a home where she is to obey her husband as head of the home? What an awkward position to put grandparents in, watching Steven like a hawk. There is no relaxing in this home, there is always a threat if Steven is in the premises.

***
but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin,
it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.  
Matthew 18:6

***

Life Sentence

When Ed Iverson and Katie’s parents agreed to the courtship of Katie and Steven, and then Doug Wilson agreed to officiate in this fiasco of a wedding, they pronounced a life sentence on Katie and her child, and extended family.  She will never be able to live as a normal wife and mother. This infant has already been sexually violated. Imagine the emotional stress in the home, always looking, trying to be vigilant, yet also trying to find a sense normal. There is no good thing in this situation, and Doug Wilson as pastor failed this young woman and her child. This is shameful behavior for a pastor who is supposed to be shepherding and protecting. What kind of shepherd intentionally puts sheep in harm’s way?  One who is arrogant to think he can determine whether a serial pedophile is repentant or not.

The actions by Doug Wilson, I believe, also constitute as spiritual abuse. Katie put her trust in her spiritual leader to guide her and protect her. He asked for leniency for Steven – that is not protecting her. Wilson married them. That was also not protecting her. How might this affect how she trusts spiritual authority? If her pastor told her this, will she be upset at God for allowing it to happen? There are so ways this could lead to a real crisis of faith. I pray it doesn’t.

I sure hope Doug Wilson apologizes to this family for the harm he has caused them. What a disgrace not only to this family, but to the world as they once again see how Christian leaders mess up so badly.
photo credit: Grapes via photopin (license)

341 thoughts on “Pastor Doug Wilson, A Serial Pedophile, and the Real Victims”

  1. “Kathi – with your social work background, doesn’t it seem that once this information got out publicly about him having sexual thoughts about the baby that child welfare could get involved and remove the baby?”

    Well, I would think so! First of all, I’m shocked that this father does not have a no contact order against him in regard to his child, especially in a case of sexual abuse. I would like to think that the DA would talk to child welfare about this family’s history. When Sitler’s polygraph resulted in new discovery, was a child abuse report submitted? I would think that attorney’s would be mandated reporters. What about the person administering the poly – if that person is a police officer, certainly he/she is a mandated reporter.

    It really is beyond comprehension why Sitler is allowed to return home. Although, given that his wife has yet to go through the training to be a certified chaperon, I would hope he’s not going home any time soon.

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  2. I will be at an all-day meeting today. If you are a new commenter, your post might get stuck in moderation until I can get a break. Sorry for any inconvenience. ~ja

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  3. Jesus’ own teachings on this matter are so unquestionably clear: “whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.”

    Why don’t Doug Wilson, et al agree with Jesus?

    The fact that they don’t should tell everyone exactly who they serve.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. Rose, thank you for your informative comments! Do you know if Wilson, Iverson and Katie all believed that true repentance would result in God curing Sitler’s desire for children?
    From reading an exchange between a commenter on TWW and “Kamilla” on another blog (I think it was Tim Bayly’s blog, come to think of it), it sounds like Wilson’s followers have been taught that it’s sinful to believe that any ill can’t (or won’t) be cured by God.

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  5. I call it snake handling theology. If you are a real Christian, you can handle poisonous snakes and not die. If you DO die, it doesn’t disprove the theology, it just means that you were never a real Christian. The theology always wins.

    Liked by 2 people

  7. Of course, as other commenters have said, Katie is an adult and shares some responsibility for this mess. However, that almost makes me pity her more. If she ever really wakes up and realizes what she has participated in/facilitated regarding her own child, I can’t imagine the horror and misery she’ll feel.

    I don’t think the courtship model is great, but I do believe parents (and friends) have the responsibility to help their children make good choices when it comes to marriage. It’s what any loving person would do. She deserved better, I’m sure.

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  8. “I don’t think the courtship model is great, but I do believe parents (and friends) have the responsibility to help their children make good choices when it comes to marriage. ” – Sarah

    Provided for of course that the parents (and friends) have a modicum of decency, discernment and brains. What we are seeing in everything from Anna Duggar’s marriage to Josh and to this case of Katie marrying a pedophile is all of the people around these young women are TOTAL FAILURES at selecting marriage partners. Throwing caution and hard, cold (dangerous) facts about a potential suitor/spouse to the wind is not *love*.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Velour,

    Exactly. It’s just funny to me because the courtship model is *supposed* to avoid this kind of stuff, not encourage it. But when parents and spiritual leaders are being cold-hearted and wicked . . . well, they could stand to listen to some of *their own* advice, oddly enough.

    Liked by 1 person

  12. Mirele, As to your question about a guardian ad litem, I believe a minor child does not get assigned one unless the state has stepped in and removed the child from the home. If the parent is willing to comply to the demands of the court to remedy the situation that resulted in the child’s removal, then social services will supervise parental complience. (ie, providing a stable home, parenting classes, drug testing, AA etc).
    The guardian ad litem (trained community volunteer) is assigned by the court to represent the child’s wishes and best interests. They visit the child monthly, speak to foster parents, school teachers etc. Sidler’s child would not be assigned one unless he is taken out of the home by social services. The guardian remains an advocate until the child is either reunified with parents or are adopted by another family. (That is until the state steps out of the picture.)
    Rose, Thank you for keeping us posted. More eyes on the situation may put pressure on the state to be more aggressive!!!

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  13. I call it snake handling theology. If you are a real Christian, you can handle poisonous snakes and not die. If you DO die, it doesn’t disprove the theology, it just means that you were never a real Christian. The theology always wins.

    I believe Robert Lifton called it “sacred science”. The guru — and his teachings and commands — can never be wrong. If they don’t work out, it’s your fault.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Regarding Anne’s (Anne Garboczi Evans) post of SEPTEMBER 4, 2015 @ 9:57 PM

    Yeah, I saw a few posts like that faulting the wife. Unless some new information comes out about her, at this stage based on what I know, I view her as another victim.

    I grew up under a warmer fuzzier version of gender complementarianism than Katie the wife did. (Was she raised in full blown patriarchy?) Regardless of which flavor of biblical sanctioned sexism she was raised under, I’m familiar enough with it (as Julie Anne is, as she mentioned above), to say I can’t really fault her.

    I remember back when the other blog was chronicling Mark Driscoll’s idiocy, some in the threads were faulting Grace (his wife), and saying, well, she profits ($$$) of his abhorrent behavior, etc, so they piled on her.

    I really do think women in these marriages are victims. I was brought up under a watered-down version of the sexism (complementarianism) that they were, so I can see how someone in Grace’s position would stay in a marriage to a jerk, or how a mother like Katie would stay in that marriage and maybe even put her child at risk.

    Here are a few things that happen to you when you are a girl growing up under gender complementarianism (and I’d imagine girls brought up in patriarchal Christian families are like this, ten times more so):

    When you are raised under these teachings, you are infantilized and conditioned to be heavily dependent on your parents, or, if you marry, on your spouse.

    You are like a little girl in a grown woman’s body. Katie may be chronologically 23 years old (or now 25 years of age, or however many years old she is now), but emotionally and self esteem wise, she might as well be only about 10, 12, or 15 years old. She probably feels like she is a little girl.

    I was not encouraged to make my own choices about anything in life and did not even realize I could do so until much, much later in life.

    You’re not taught about how boundaries and not given permission to have them. You’re told that having boundaries is wrong, it’s selfish, and to avoid conflict. You are to always defer to other people (especially a husband if married).

    When, as a kid, I would go to my mother to tell her about bullies at school and ask her for permission to confront them, she always told me no, discouraged me, and sometimes asked me to feel sorry for my tormentors, to empathize with them.

    So, abusers and bullies are supposed to be given preferential treatment. You are taught that your needs and feelings and safety do not matter. Other people always come first.

    You just have no practice at being assertive, having boundaries, speaking up and disagreeing with others – to even thing of doing any of those things can feel very scary and alien. I would imagine, Katie, if she has even partially wanted to confront her husband or other adults (especially male) over protecting her son or whatever else upsets her, has no clue how to do it, or finds the notion very intimidating and frightening.

    It’s very easy if you are a 40, 50 or 60 year old adult who has been independent or autonomous for years to look at a 20 something women like Katie and be confused or condemning of her sitting back and apparently doing nothing to protect her son, but I understand it to a degree. If she was raised anything like I was(and she likely was, and ten times worse), I get it.

    She is probably paralyzed by fear and feeling incompetent and helpless to do anything. She is probably naive and hoping and trusting that prayer and faith, and/or the adults in her life will do right by her.

    Even if she divorces or leave the pedophile husband, does she have the financial means to do, or a safe home to stay in? Does she have the funds to pay rent or at least buy baby food and stuff? If not, she may feel even more trapped.

    But yeah, I was rather surprised that a few comments at the other blog were harsh against her, as it’s a blog that regularly posts exposes on how awful complementarianism is.

    I have chipped in to the comments there enough explaining my own experience being brought up under comp, with discourse on the negative ramifications I’ve faced under it (which I’ve been working through the last few years), so I’d think the folks there would be more insightful about Katie in this situation.

    If more information comes to light about her, I would consider changing my views about her, but if she was raised anything like I was (under sexism, which is passed off as being God’s will for women), I’d say she’s a naive, inexperienced, ignorant, and-or a fearful pawn of complementarianism, Doug Wilson, her parents, and other older- than- her adults who put her in this situation.

    She was trusting these people to set her up with a godly Christian man as a spouse. Several of the blogs I read about this said at age 23, 24, she felt like an “old maid” and was desperate to marry.
    (You can do a whole other blog post about this being a problem – the Bible teaches that there is no shame or insult in being a single and childless woman, but these types of Douglas Wilson churches shame, propagandize, and brow-beat women into thinking being married and a mother are their ONLY callings or choices in life.)

    Katie was told upfront that the spouse to be was a pedo?
    If so, maybe she was brought up under theology which taught her that if she prayed enough for the pedo that he would be cured, or, all he needed was a good, Christian obedient wife to set him straight, or some malarky like that.

    I could just see Wilson and guys like him filling her young mind with dodgy theology about how Christ can and will instantly heal pedos, and she bought into it. Because she was trusting these older adults, including her parents, to do right by her. I think they’re all just using her and taking advantage of her.

    One day, likely when she is much older, Katie will wake up and realize she was exploited by these people and in this ordeal, and she will probably have buried mountains of repressed rage and regret to work through.
    (Ask me how I know!! I ain’t never been married to a pedo, but I’ve been through some other stuff.)

    So, yeah, at this point, and unless some new information comes to light, I feel she is another victim in all this. I of course feel very sorry for that baby, and I think the pedo father should not be allowed any visits or contact with the baby, none.

    Liked by 2 people

  15. @Daisy,
    Thank you for your insightful post above about the patriarchy world that Katie has been living in. (By the way, Julie Anne got a nice post the other day from a Dad who said he and his family would help Katie get out of this situation and they had previously helped a mom with children.)

    It’s always a joy to see your posts, Daisy!

    Hugs,
    Velour

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Cathy said,

    I am physically ill after reading this. As a mother of daughters, I hope and pray her parents didn’t know about his criminal past. Because the alternative is unimaginable.
    Young women are taught to keep themselves pure and unblemished in this culture only to be thrown to perverts to “cure” their deviant sexual addictions? Are we to be told that, as in the case of Josh Duggar’s wife this is somehow her fault now?? I can’t begin to imagine what this poor woman is dealing with emotional and physically right now! What separates this doctrine from the Muslim Extremists that we condemn so vehemently?

    Everything in your post is spot on.

    If I could hit the “like” button on your post more than once, I would have done so.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Velour SEPTEMBER 4, 2015 @ 12:38 PM

    Thank you for those links. I will try giving a listen to the blog talk radio thing probably tonight, if I can work up the courage.

    I read snippets from one of Salter’s books online (there were free sample chapters, it was about people who sexually abuse kids), and it was some of the most stomach- churning stuff I’ve ever read. I kind of wish I could “un-read” it. It was that awful and hard to fathom.

    There was a story in there of a guy who sexually assaulted his own biological son, I think the son was about eight years old, and the story in the book went into graphic detail about it. That story was really ingrained on my memory. I wish it wasn’t.

    But I’m hoping the other material by her sheds some light on some of these topics overall, and how people can help, or spot pedos more easy, that sort of thing.

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  18. From reading an exchange between a commenter on TWW and “Kamilla” on another blog (I think it was Tim Bayly’s blog, come to think of it), it sounds like Wilson’s followers have been taught that it’s sinful to believe that any ill can’t (or won’t) be cured by God.

    Kamilla – – – bless her heart. I think you are right. That’s why they can’t stand it when someone says a pedophile cannot be cured – because God can heal anyone.

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  19. I think Wilson & co. may believe that marriage is somewhat of a “cure” for people like Sitler.

    I agree completely, Nicholas! And they think pedophilia is about sex. The underlying issue is really about control.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. Of course, as other commenters have said, Katie is an adult and shares some responsibility for this mess. However, that almost makes me pity her more. If she ever really wakes up and realizes what she has participated in/facilitated regarding her own child, I can’t imagine the horror and misery she’ll feel.

    I agree with this. Can you imagine the guilt knowing you could have done something and you chose not to and put your child in harm’s way? Horrific!

    I don’t think the courtship model is great, but I do believe parents (and friends) have the responsibility to help their children make good choices when it comes to marriage. It’s what any loving person would do. She deserved better, I’m sure.

    I’ve been thinking a lot about this. Loving parents would never want to put their adult children in a harmful predicament like this. Train wreck is what keeps coming to mind.

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  21. “From reading an exchange between a commenter on TWW and “Kamilla” on another blog (I think it was Tim Bayly’s blog, come to think of it), it sounds like Wilson’s followers have been taught that it’s sinful to believe that any ill can’t (or won’t) be cured by God.

    Kamilla – – – bless her heart. I think you are right. That’s why they can’t stand it when someone says a pedophile cannot be cured – because God can heal anyone.”-Julie Anne

    This was my post over at The Wartburg Watch regarding Kamilla’s defense of a pedophile:

    “To which I would reply to Kamilla using the phrase from attorney, child advocate, and author Andrew Vachss with: “Behavior is truth.”

    If Kamilla needs other sources they are easily available: 1) Church Mutual, the largest insurer of churches in the U.S. has the information on child sexual abuse; and 2) attorney Richard Hammer at Church Law & Tax also has the information on the epidemic of child sexual abuse in the church. Hammer reviews more than 10,000 lawsuits against churches every single year. And every single year for years on end the Sexual Abuse of Minors is the No. 1 reason that churches get sued.

    The liability is so great for insurance companies, that many of them are pulling out of the church insurance markets altogether. Some insurance companies are notifying churches that they must minister to sex offenders separately from the regular congregation and from being around children, or cancelling their insurance coverage.

    Then there’s Justice Department data and countless other sources of information.

    There’s predator expert Dr. Anna Salter’s work (articles, books, interviews) about how cunning predators are.

    And finally there are sex offenders themselves who say what an easy mark churches are to get new victims and how trusting and naïve church people are.

    How much more evidence does Kamilla need?????”

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  23. @Daisy,

    Dr. Anna Salter’s work/knowledge of predators can be very hard. So take it easy. I personally couldn’t listen to it at night as I would have nightmares. (Even reading some of this bad stuff before bed online last night gave me nightmares.)

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  24. “Kamilla loves Patriarchy and Wilson. Whenever I engage her, I think about the wasted time I will never get back.” – Julie Anne

    When I was reading Kamilla Ludwig’s bio today (I had never heard of Bayly before somebody mentioned him nor her until yesterday) apparently she said she was a feminist at some earlier point. She seems to swing to extremes. Let’s hope she wakes up and gets to a happy medium. Because she is so dead wrong to defend this pedophile.

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  26. Julie Anne,

    Can I have official permission right now to SCREAM at the TOP OF MY LUNGS!!
    I just read Doug Wilson’s PATHETIC letter, the link you posted above. He didn’t approve of the marriage? Give me a break! He married them! Of course he did!
    He could have said *no way*!

    All of this dumb decisions to enable a pedophile have just gotten an infant boy the target of his pedophile father’s sexual desires?

    Why is it that we lock our homes, lock our cars, protect our valuables, and that our children aren’t worthy of the same level of protection as our possessions?

    Doug Wilson should quit hiding behind is persecution complex, The Gospel, etc. He just “man up” for a change. He’s blown it over and over and over again. And now children are at risk.

    Do they build enough prisons in Idaho to hold pedophiles like this one and their enablers?

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  28. I just read the statement by Doug Wilson. It sounds a whole lot like what the polygamists say when they marry off a 12 year old girl to a 70 year old man saying it was her choice and God’s will. It is sickening and he is justifying child molestation. Women and girls are fleeing polygamy with the clothes on there backs having awakened from the fog. Women and girls can do this from the DW style of cult as well. I have seen offers to rescue Katie and her child on other blogs and articles about this mockery of Christ along with one on this blog. Katie is in need of good counsel and not from her parents or ‘c’hrist ‘c’hurch. I hate to call that fiasco by the precious name of our Savior.

    A local church down the road from the one I attend found there was a convicted pedophile who had spent time in prison for those crimes and was being investigated for a whole new incident(s). His wife also new about his past. Fortunately, they had no children. BOTH, were put out of the church for not having acknowledged his past and apparent present crimes. A child molester should not be able to sit with the general assembly for the protection of the children present. Under his probation, how many feet, as a convicted sex offender should he be from children? What is wrong with the system in Moscow anyways?

    Having been repeatedly molested by a pedophile as a child this is of particular concern to me, If not death, the sentence should be castration or perhaps a lobotomy.

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  29. DW did not approve of the marriage? On TWW, someone said the marriage video was online. Not only did he marry them when he could have refused, he prayed – so say someone who saw the video clip – for them to be blessed with many children!

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  30. Velour,
    Do they build enough prisons in Idaho to hold pedophiles like this one and their enablers?

    I am wondering that myself. There used to be debtor’s prisons for those who could not pay what they owed. How much more should those who molest a child or allow it to happen have to stay behind bars. If there were such places, perhaps it would cause others to think about what they are doing when telling their daughter that it is ok to marry a child molester because she is a sinner too. I believe there is such a thing as sin leveling. You won’t go to prison for j walking, but you will for rape, murder or grand theft. Isn’t molesting a child taking away their child hood as much theft as a car, jewelry or your tv.

    It is so sad to think of all of the females that believe this is normal or their responsibility. It is sadder still to think of all of those controlling them with these teaching. DW and people like him should be afflicted in such a way that they could not be heard from again. I had a stepfather and brother who were both pedophiles and a mother who was blind to part and enabled the rest at the expense of the females in the family. There are more and more people working to get the word out to those in the church. JA Please keep up the good work. I know how sick all of this can make the body, but a crown awaits you.

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  31. There’s a simple solution: Does Doug Wilson have grandchildren ages 2-12, Steven Sitler’s preferred rape target range?

    He is allowed to defend Steven if and only if, Steven is allowed to babysit his grandchildren for a year — any place, any where.

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  34. Dear Velour.

    Child sexual abuse has been rampant in my family for almost a hundred years, one of my cousins committed suicide a few years ago just after his twenty firth birthday because he could not take the pain anymore.

    Another cousin that was sexually abused the first fifteen years of his life has went to prison for over twenty years, he is passive, sweet, thin, blue eyes, blond hair, to think he was sexually terrorized as a child, and that is why he ended up in prison, now it could be happening again, it is evil. He did drugs to try to get the unbearable memories and feelings away, started robbing banks to get the money.

    He did tell my Grandmother that the prison stopped playing westerns and is playing Toddlers & Tiaras and the pedophiles love it.

    The pain of sexual abuse is never ending toxic chronic misery, it ruins the rest of your life. I was burned as a child, and compared to the sexual abuse the burns didn’t hurt, and isn’t a bad memory.

    I have been very grateful about your passion over the disgustingness that is Josh Duggar and Doug Wilson. It helps children to hear grown ups get angry about sexual abuse. Thank You!

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  35. “This is because he provides an easy way for enemies of our ministry to attack us.”

    “We do not believe that the temptations that earlier led Steven to molest children are out of his life, ”

    Then why serve a child up to him? Is the little boy expected to be submissive to his father?

    Doug Wilson keeps saying “our” and “we”. How spineless.

    Rewriting history, Doug Wilson does not do integrity.

    Is Doug Wilson trying to get his church to take blame with him for HIS love affair with a pedophile?

    Jesus says,
    “It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.”

    Jesus did not kiss pedophile bottom in any of the four Gospels.

    These self proclaimed leaders are always trying to push criticism off on the whole Church, or Jesus, or the Gospels. Is that why they become preachers were they can do and say anything they want and then when people criticism them for it they can say people do not like Jesus or the Gospels? No, it is you!

    The fact is there is something wrong with them and Jesus does not have to take the blame for it.

    Liked by 1 person

  36. Regarding Wilson’s statement: When you cut past all the half-truths and lies, one point stands head and shoulders above all — namely, Doug Wilson threw Katie Sitler under the bus along with her baby. He should have just said, “I had to officiate the wedding between a serial pedophile and a naïve NSA student because there was a gun on my head and I had no choice.”

    And the message to Katie is loud and clear: “You’re on your own, kid. Better suck it up because you get nothing from me.”

    File this one under #chivalry.

    Liked by 2 people

  37. “While we do not believe that marriage is an automatic “fix” for the temptations to molest children, we agree with Judge Stegner who approved the wedding and said that ‘an age-appropriate relationship with a member of the opposite sex from Mr. Sitler is one of the best things that can happen to him and to society” (emphasis added). Moreover, if everything is on the table, we do not believe the church has the authority to prohibit or “not allow” a lawful marriage.”

    BS.

    The “temptation to molest children”?? Temptation? That’s all this is? You’re talking about a repeat offender, and you want to call it “temptation.” Ok.

    BS.

    How is a marriage where YOU blessed them and encouraged them to have children supposed to be a good idea for staving off the “temptation” to molest children? You’re playing games with people’s lives, DW.

    BS

    “We do not believe the church has the authority to prohibit a lawful marriage”? You’re going to hide behind the law now? You couldn’t be bothered to make a strong recommendation, eh? All this shows is that you have no clue how pedophiles function. You indeed want to wash your hands of this. I don’t have the authority, no laws were broken…. It’s all their problem now. Somehow I doubt that. What happens when she’s unsubmissive? Or wants a divorce? I’m sure it’ll be your problem then.

    BS.

    Liked by 2 people

  38. So both you AND the judge think the best thing for a pedophile is for him to get married? Can anybody with actual professional knowledge comment on this statement?

    We don’t believe it’s a fix for his “temptation” but it totally is. Also, be fruitful and multiply. HOW DOES THAT COMPUTE?

    GAH!

    Liked by 1 person

  40. Moreover, if everything is on the table, we do not believe the church has the authority to prohibit or “not allow” a lawful marriage.

    Well then, {cough} He shouldn’t have any issues officiating a gay wedding, {cough}

    Liked by 3 people

  42. Someone named Rose H. on the other blog said she’s later going to do a point by point refutation of Wilson’s latest post.
    Does anyone have the link / URL to Rose’s site or blog? She didn’t list a link to it at the other site. (Thanks in advance for any help on that.)
    ———————————
    BTDT said,

    “Well then, {cough} He shouldn’t have any issues officiating a gay wedding, {cough}”

    Thank you!
    I raised a similar point at the other blog just about five minutes ago. Wilson says he can’t prohibit a wedding the state says is legal.

    But does he not rant against homosexual marriage on his blog? I’m pretty sure he does.

    Well, didn’t SCOTUS rule just a few months ago that homosexual marriage is now legal? So, how is it that he’s complaining out the wazoo about homosexual marriage on his blog?

    Here is some of what I said about this on the other site:

    Has he written any posts in support Kim Davis, the clerk who refused to issue marriage licenses to homosexual couples, when homosexual marriage is now considered legal?
    (I’m not here arguing one way or the other about Kim Davis, only pointing to a possible double standard held by Wilson.)

    I thought sincere Christians were not just concerned about what is legal, but by what is moral, by way of biblical principles.

    There is something amiss with a guy who rants against homosexual marriage in some blog posts but is peachy keen with pedophiles marrying, and then on top of that, having children with the spouse that he later abuses.

    (You had to know that was at least a possibility if a pedo marries and has kids.)
    So while it may be legal in Wilson’s state for a pedo to marry an adult (and to have children by that spouse), is it moral, wise, or healthy? I don’t think it is. I think it’s at least questionable.

    Like

  43. govpappy said,

    So both you AND the judge think the best thing for a pedophile is for him to get married? Can anybody with actual professional knowledge comment on this statement?

    We don’t believe it’s a fix for his “temptation” but it totally is. Also, be fruitful and multiply. HOW DOES THAT COMPUTE?

    GAH!

    I noticed all of that too, and it left me scratching my head.

    There are several conflicting messages going on. There’s some fine hair-splitting going on.

    “Marriage to an adult is not a “cure” for pedophilia, but at the same time, we kind of think it kind of is, so we were happy to marry a pedophile off to a non-pedophile”

    And I wonder why kind of kook judge goes along with any of this?

    Liked by 1 person

  44. Wow – What a stinkin mess…

    Pastors? Marrying? Two people?

    Where, the hell is that found in the Bible?

    There is NO Crying in baseball…

    And there are NO Pastors marrying anyone in the Bible…

    And there are NO Disciples of Jesus with the “Title” pastor in the Bible…

    Wow – What a stinkin mess…

    Jer 22:22
    The *wind shall eat up “ALL thy pastors,” (*wind = ruwach = breath, spirit)
    and thy lovers shall go into captivity:
    surely then shalt thou be ashamed
    and confounded for all thy wickedness.

    Like

  45. Wilson thinks that one of the primary duties of a husband set by God is protection.

    He said: “If the guardian is corrupt, what is a wife supposed to do? This means that the protector must never himself inflict physical threats or harm, verbal threats or harm, or the pain of treachery and marital infidelity.”

    http://dougwils.com/books/foundations-of-marriage-xi.html

    We don’t know at this point if Sitler was ever physically or verbally abusive toward Katie, however, I think it is very clear that he was treacherous and sexually unfaithful. And, Wilson knew that Sitler was a child molester when he married them because he had counseled Sitler about his “issues.”

    Go ahead, Wilson. You keep talking your big words and making people think that there’s nothing to see there. Unfortunately for you some of us are able to sniff the b.s. out.

    Liked by 1 person

  46. Just in case I forget… or begin to doubt…

    There is NO Crying in baseball…

    In the Bible…
    There are NO Pastors marrying anyone…
    There are NO Disciples of Jesus with the “Title” pastor…
    NO Paid, Professional, Pastors, In Pulpits, Preaching, to People, in Pews…

    In the Bible…
    There are NO Pastors marrying anyone…
    There are NO Disciples of Jesus with the “Title” pastor…
    NO Paid, Professional, Pastors, In Pulpits, Preaching, to People, in Pews…

    In the Bible…
    There are NO Pastors marrying anyone…
    There are NO Disciples of Jesus with the “Title” pastor…
    NO Paid, Professional, Pastors, In Pulpits, Preaching, to People, in Pews…

    In the Bible…
    There are NO Pastors marrying anyone…
    There are NO Disciples of Jesus with the “Title” pastor…
    NO Paid, Professional, Pastors, In Pulpits, Preaching, to People, in Pews…

    In the Bible…
    There are NO Pastors marrying anyone…
    There are NO Disciples of Jesus with the “Title” pastor…
    NO Paid, Professional, Pastors, In Pulpits, Preaching, to People, in Pews…

    In the Bible…
    There are NO Pastors marrying anyone…
    There are NO Disciples of Jesus with the “Title” pastor…
    NO Paid, Professional, Pastors, In Pulpits, Preaching, to People, in Pews…

    Pastors? – AAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH….

    When the hell will His Ekklesia, His Church, His Called Out Ones….
    STOP paying these guys to do…. errr… stufffff, NOT in the Bible???

    Like

  48. Jesus calls HIMself…

    The “Good” Shepherd – The “ONE” Shepherd

    John 10:11-16
    I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep…
    …I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine…

    …And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
    them also I must bring, and they shall “hear My voice; “
    and there shall be “ONE” fold, and “ONE” shepherd.

    If not now? – When?

    One Voice – One Fold – One Shepherd – One Leader

    {{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}

    Like

  49. For the record, I attend Christ Church. Christ Church has a population of over a thousand. About 30% are under 18. I think I briefly met Sitler once. A lot of misinformation about Doug’s character is being presented here. He is not in favor of women being doormats. Just the opposite in fact. Reading his books, if you bothered to read them would show you that. Many of the people on this board profess Christ, yet except for a couple of posts, there is no charity on your part here. You are acting like the Christians who are devouring one another. Paul warns against this. Sitler has not violated his parole since his actions have only been between his ears so he can’t be arrested.

    Was the marriage unwise? Yes. Sitler should have married someone who couldn’t have kids. A lot of pedophiles don’t touch their own kids, but their friends would be at risk. I am very active on a blog written by a woman who was married to a pedophile for forty years, bore him eleven children and didn’t know until the very end. Her husband, John Hinton was a pastor of a Church of Christ in Pennsylvania. Her middle son, Jimmy, also became a pastor and had to call the cops on his own father, when he found out what was happening. I don’t have my head in the sand about this. Whether Doug was wise to officiate the wedding or not, here we are. Screaming at Doug is not going to make anything better. Cursing patriarchy the way many of you do is not godly, so don’t expect God to bless it. Like I said, I have only met Sitler once. I don’t know him. Repentance can be a very ongoing thing. Maybe Sitler really does want to change. Look how you are all reacting when he admits under polygraph that he has been tempted? Something practical you Christians can do is not cursing Doug and start praying for him. after you get the more out of your eyes, engage him on his blog, but not until you stop cursing him in your hearts.

    Like

  50. DW did not approve of the marriage? On TWW, someone said the marriage video was online. Not only did he marry them when he could have refused, he prayed – so say someone who saw the video clip – for them to be blessed with many children!

    If he didn’t approve of the marriage, he wouldn’t have officiated. Yes, the video used to be online and I watched some of it when it was online. The picture above is a screenshot of the wedding as it was on Vimeo.

    I have the sermon from the wedding and there is nothing mentioned about having children, welcoming babies, etc. In the sermon, I see the word family mentioned one time in this context:

    In the context of this grace, Christian husbands and wives can remember the second great commandment, and couple it with the realization that marriage and family are the proving ground, the testing ground, for obedience to this great commandment.

    Like

  51. I’m going to address one thing in your comment, Lloyd.

    We absolutely will curse patriarchy here, as it is false doctrine, evil, and it hurts people, and this blog has documented case after case of this.

    Liked by 4 people

  52. Jesus said…
    They shall ALL be taught of God….

    Joh 6:45 KJV
    It is written in the prophets,
    And they shall be “ALL taught of God.”
    Every man therefore that hath heard,
    and hath “Learned of the Father,” cometh unto me.

    John, the apostle said…
    You need NO man teach you…

    1 John 2:26-27 KJV
    These things have I written unto you
    concerning them that SEDUCE you.
    But ”The Anointing” which ye have received of him
    abideth “In You,”
    and ye need NOT that “any MAN” teach you:
    but as the same “Anointing teacheth you” of ALL things,
    and is truth, and is no lie,
    and even as *it (*the anointing) hath taught you,
    ye shall abide in him.
    ————

    Jer 50:6
    “My people” hath been “lost sheep:”
    **THEIR shepherds** have caused them to *go astray,*

    1 Pet 2:25
    For ye were as *sheep going astray;*
    BUT are now returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

    {{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}

    Like

  53. You are acting like the Christians who are devouring one another. Paul warns against this.

    I believe Paul would disagree with you. We are Christians who are upset that a man o’ God put defenseless lives in harm’s way.

    Was the marriage unwise? Yes. Sitler should have married someone who couldn’t have kids.

    Now we’re talking. Has your pastor owned up to this? If not, why not? Why is he defending this marriage? I believe your pastor is a fool.

    A lot of pedophiles don’t touch their own kids, but their friends would be at risk.

    Good grief, just saying that sentence gives me the willies. So let’s marry off all pedophiles because there’s a chance they won’t molest their own children, but will molest other children. Eenie, Meenie, Miney, Moe. Blech!

    Whether Doug was wise to officiate the wedding or not, here we are.

    Yes, here we are with your arrogant pastor who refuses to admit he was wrong, and instead defends himself and calls everyone else slanderers, fill-in-the-blank negative words about our spiritual state. That’s not cool.

    Cursing patriarchy the way many of you do is not godly, so don’t expect God to bless it.

    I don’t know what you mean by cursing. Most people in my circles are not publicly cussing. They are angry, and rightly so. I believe God is blessing this. He wants his Church, pure. It is not pure when “godly shepherds” put others in harm’s way.

    Look how you are all reacting when he admits under polygraph that he has been tempted?

    Um, isn’t that the purpose of a polygraph? The polygraph does not give details, but generalities. I have been studying about pedophiles for years because there are several in my family. They are sneaky, conniving, dishonest individuals. I think most even deceive themselves. He may in fact be attempting to clean up his act. The reality is that even after going through treatment programs. If he’s still having thoughts while around a BABY that lead to sexual stimulation longer than 10 years after abuses were first identified, this man is far from repentance.

    You don’t need to defend your pastor or Sitler any more, the evidence speaks louder than your attempts to defend. Thanks for stopping by.

    Liked by 6 people

  54. I got an e-mail from Rose that she asked me to post:

    I have just read Doug Wilson’s statement. I believe he is manipulating the truth, as he often does. I am working from primary source documents, to refute several of his claims. It may take me several hours to complete the task. Meanwhile, please take his self-serving screed for what it is, worthless.

    Blessings,
    Rose Huskey

    Liked by 6 people

  55. Julie Anne

    Yes… This was good – And accurate…
    “I believe Paul would disagree with you. We are Christians who are upset that a man o’ God put defenseless lives in harm’s way.”

    Like

  56. @R Lloyd,

    You speak of Paul. I will speak of Jesus. Jesus said that it would be better that a millstone be tied around a person’s neck and they be drowned in the deepest sea than they harm a child!

    Jesus protected children and commanded us to do the same.

    The perversions that Doug Wilson and your church are defending the Lord punished with the death penalty in the Old Testament. Ditto for what Jesus said in the New Testament.

    Sitler shouldn’t be married to anyone, who can have children or not. He should be sitting in prison. It is a travesty that he is walking our streets.

    Do you lock your home? Your car? Your valuables? And the care you give to your possessions ranks higher than that of children?

    On your *best* day you think it would be fine for YOUR DAUGHTER to date and marry a pedophile? Is this honestly your *best* thinking? Unbelievers have more discernment than this!

    Liked by 5 people

  57. R. Lloyd

    You gots some courage to post. I’ll give you that… BUT…

    You write…
    “You are acting like the Christians who are devouring one another.
    Paul warns against this.”

    Well, you calls it “devouring” – I calls it “rebuking,” and “reproving.”
    And Paul, he gots lots to say about rebuking and reproving… 😉

    Eph 5:11
    And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness,
    but rather *reprove them.*

    And, Patriarchy is certainly a work of darkness…

    1 Tim 5:20
    Them that sin “rebuke before all,” that others also may fear.

    And when you read verse 19 – Them refers to “elders.”

    2 Tim 4:2
    Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season;
    *reprove,* *rebuke,* exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

    Did any of His Disciples take the “Title/Position” pastor/leader/reverend?

    Why does Doug Wilson call him self pastor/leader?

    Is Wilson NOT one of His Disciples? Are you okay wit dat?

    Tit 2:15
    These things speak, and exhort, and *rebuke*
    with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

    If I remember correctly – Youse guys, at blog and mayblog…
    Do a fair amount of “Rebuking” those you dis-agree with. Yes?

    But, when youse gets a bit of your own medicine…
    It becomes “devouring one another.”

    Man-up – and put your big boy panties on…

    Shhheeeesssshhhh…

    Like

  59. Hey, Dee, I wish it were fun, but it’s sadness I feel for Christ’s church. So glad you’re covering this story, too. Celebrity pastors must be held accountable to keep children safe.

    Liked by 3 people

  61. R Lloyd said,

    A lot of misinformation about Doug’s character is being presented here. He is not in favor of women being doormats. Just the opposite in fact. Reading his books, if you bothered to read them would show you that.

    I’ve read some of Wilson’s blog posts and excerpts from his books on other sites, and yes, he encourages women to be doormats.

    In addition, the teaching Wilson espouses encourages women to be doormats, and a lot of that goes a long way to explain how and why a 23 year old woman (Katie) walked into a marriage with a known pedophile, and why she continues to stay in that marriage and put he infant son at risk.

    There are Doug Wilson quotes and excerpts on this following page, which shows his sexist views and horrible teachings that put women in danger and victim blames rape victims:

    _On Domestic Violence: How Conservative Christianity has Chosen Patriarchal Gender Roles Over the Protection of Victims_
    (this page has excerpts of Wilson’s awful views from books)

    R Lloyd said,

    Yes. Sitler should have married someone who couldn’t have kids

    No. I am a never married adult over 40. I had prayed for years for a spouse but never got one.

    I have been a super “goody goody” since childhood. I never slept around, never did drugs, was a clean cut, was a good student in school, respectful to adults, a good kid who didn’t rebel against mom and dad.

    One fairly common and presumptuous and rude comment I get from some Christians on some blogs or in books in regards to marriage is that God must be waiting for me to rid myself of some horrible sin, or some sin rut I am in, before he will send me a spouse.

    Some Christians teach that a person has to “earn” a spouse from God, by being good. Despite a life time of being super good, I have no spouse.

    Yet, I am supposed to believe that a slime ball child molester merits, or should have, a spouse? I don’t think so.

    I don’t think a child molesting deviant should marry, or that he even “deserves” a spouse, whether or not that spouse can have children.

    R Lloyd said,

    Cursing patriarchy the way many of you do is not godly, so don’t expect God to bless it.

    Patriarchy is Satanic and evil; God does not like it or bless it.

    And seriously, you are more concerned over defending patriarchy than Wilson is putting women and children in harm’s way? Your priorities are gross.

    I explained on Page One of this conversation thread some of the ways gender complementarianism (which is a watered down form of patriarchy) harmed me personally. I lived it for decades.

    Gender comp / patriarchy are sexism under the guise of being “biblical teachings,” and they harm women.

    R Lloyd said,

    Maybe Sitler really does want to change.

    If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

    I want to be the Queen of England, that does not make it so.

    R Lloyd said,

    after you get the more out of your eyes, engage him on his blog, but not until you stop cursing him in your hearts.

    I am not being a hypocrite on this, as I don’t molest children, nor do I teach content on blogs, books, or sermons that sets up an environment for abuse to happen and for abusers to receive cover for more abuse to happen, like Wilson does.

    R Lloyd said,

    Screaming at Doug is not going to make anything better.

    Sure it does, or it can, because this is forcing you and other fans of Wilson to think about Wilson and his teachings.

    He is being confronted on his damaging theology and practices. He had to write a blog post answering his critics just last night or today. He is being held accountable to some degree.

    I don’t think Sitler is the only pedophile Wilson got married off, I believe there was another one, but I cannot remember the other guy’s name.

    R Lloyd said,

    Many of the people on this board profess Christ, yet except for a couple of posts, there is no charity on your part here.

    I’m a bit of an agnostic, a bit of a Christian now.

    I no longer abide by this fake nicey nice, naive form of Christianity that is all rainbows and lollipops, and we should all just sweep these things under the carpet in the name of unity or presenting a false facade to the un-saved world.

    No charity should be shown to a preacher (Wilson) who harbors such sexist views of women and willingly married a known pedophile to a young woman and which in turn put her child in danger, or may have.

    Also, Wilson’s priorities or areas of focus are hypocritical. From what I have seen of his blog myself and read of it by others who visit it more often than myself, he spends quite a bit of time railing on his blog against homosexual marriage and abortion, but is fine of marrying a young, naive, trusting woman to a known pedophile. That is very messed up.

    Liked by 1 person

  62. @BTDT:

    As for Katie, having grown up in a Patriarchal bubble, she will have had certain teachings drilled into her. For example…

    “The Man PENETRATES! COLONIZES! CONQUERS! PLANTS!
    The Woman lies back and ACCEPTS!”
    — Doug Wilson, ManaGAWD(TM), True Head of the One True Kirk(TM), Calvin to Moscow’s Geneva

    Like

  63. @R Lloyd:

    For the record, I attend Christ Church…

    A Good Little Kirk(TM) Member.
    Maybe he’ll get a pat-pat-pat on the head and a dog biscuit from Pastor Douggie?

    Liked by 2 people

  64. @Daisy:

    Also, Wilson’s priorities or areas of focus are hypocritical. From what I have seen of his blog myself and read of it by others who visit it more often than myself, he spends quite a bit of time railing on his blog against homosexual marriage and abortion, but is fine of marrying a young, naive, trusting woman to a known pedophile.

    Pedophilia isn’t HOMOSEXUALITY HOMOSEXUALITY HOMOSEXUALITY(TM).

    Guess it’s OK in the sight of Gawd to rape little kids as long as it’s opposite sex. Then you’re just PENETRATING! COLONIZING! CONQUERING! PLANTING!

    Liked by 1 person

  65. Hi 100pinkapples,

    Thank you for your encouraging post to me, about my advocacy for child sexual abuse victims.

    I am sorry that this evil against children has been perpetrated in your family for 100 years, caused incalculable damage and suffering, and cost people their lives (suicide), prison (drug addiction to deal with the pain), and life-long trauma.

    Thank you as always for your transparency, advocacy for children, and your gift of writing. I always learn a lot from you!

    Like

  67. HUG said,

    “The Man PENETRATES! COLONIZES! CONQUERS! PLANTS!
    The Woman lies back and ACCEPTS!”
    — Doug Wilson, ManaGAWD(TM), True Head of the One True Kirk(TM), Calvin to Moscow’s Geneva

    I was skimming one of Wilson’s book on Amazon yesterday, per the suggestion of someone at the other blog – it was a book about fidelity in marriage.

    There’s a section in the book where Wilson answers questions from people, and one of them was from a married guy who was complaining that his wife will give in to sex whenever he wants it, BUT.

    He was saying his wife is not enthusiastic about it, does not participate. This married guy was asking Wilson how to get the wife more “into it.”

    I don’t remember much of Wilson’s response, except he told the guy to address the topic in a non-sexual context, and not in the bedroom.

    In the larger scheme of things, I thought, well, there you go. No surprise.

    When you teach Christian ladies that sex is a DUTY, that it’s for the man’s enjoyment, that married men are entitled to sex from the wife whenever and however they want it, and married women don’t want or enjoy sex, what do you expect?

    (Oh, and I’ve yet to hear a male preacher coach married men that married women want sex and prefer certain sex acts, so they better get to it. Married women are just assumed not to have a sex drive or sex needs in these gender comp and patriarchal churches.)

    So, if you teach all this nonsense, that women want to be passive, that they should be passive and colonizied and penetrated and just lay there like a rock in the mud during the sex act….
    You are (NO DUH) going to get married women (if they buy into or were brainwashed with Wilsonian marital sexual teachings for years) finding sex to be a horrible or boring CHORE, and not be excited and active during the act. DERP.

    I swear, these guys set up and create some of the VERY THINGS they want to avoid with their stupid teachings on gender, sex, and other things.

    Liked by 4 people

  68. Daisy, (September 5, 2015 @ 5:21 PM)
    Thanks. That was difficult to read. It’s ironic, I was raised this way in a non-Christian family. As a compliant child with a controlling father, I had difficulty with the concept of boundaries, and I still (nearly at retirement age) have trouble making decisions.

    It’s got to be 100 times worse, or maybe 1000, when this kind of de-personing of persons has the apparent “blessing” of God and the Bible.

    Like

  69. Above I said, “He was saying his wife is not enthusiastic about it, does not participate. This married guy was asking Wilson how to get the wife more “into it.””

    The older I become, I am more and more mystified why Christians ask other Christians for advice, especially on stuff like this.

    Why would anyone go to Doug Wilson (or Driscoll, or Pat Robertson or any number of these other sexist or flake Christians) for dating, marriage, sex, or whatever advice? These guys don’t know any better than you. You’re an adult. You can make your own decisions about stuff.

    If you’re a married guy with a wife who shows all the enthusiasm of a zombie during the sex act, ASK YOUR WIFE ABOUT IT. (All caps for emphasis, not yelling.)

    That guy should have gone to his wife and asked her,
    “Dear, I notice during our Sexy Time you don’t seem too enthused. Can you please tell me why? Is there anything I can do or change to make things more exciting for you in the sack? Am I doing something to turn you off? I can stop doing it, whatever it is. Or, maybe you don’t want to have sex as often? Maybe we can cut back.”

    Ask your wife about it. Don’t write Mark Driscoll, John Piper, Doug Wilson, or these other weenies.

    Liked by 2 people

  72. Headless Unicorn Guy,

    Did Doug Wilson really say “The Man Penetrates! Colonizes! Conquers! Plants! The Woman lies back and accepts!”

    And this man represents Jesus? Seriously? Where does it say that in the Bible?

    This man needs to get a real job and leave innocent people alone, perhaps he could get his hands dirty working on our farm ‘penetrating, colonizing, conquering, and planting’ the soil with the machinery necessary in getting the job done. Then he can help pitch some manure to ensure good animal husbandry, all the while working up a sweat and busting a blister or two on his soft hands.

    All the while this woman lies back and accepts a little time off from hard farm labor as this body is aging and deteriorating.

    I believe the Apostle Paul still made tents by the work of his hands all the while ministering the Gospel of Jesus Christ so as to not be a burden to those he preached to. What work can Doug Wilson do in the real world so as to not be a hireling?

    Liked by 4 people

  73. Daisy,

    At my former church, I sat under women who followed the teachings of Pat Robertson, until I began researching for myself, the doctrines he espoused.
    After hearing/reading of his false teachings, I couldn’t believe those women followed that man! Yuck!

    Liked by 1 person

  74. refugee said,

    Thanks. That was difficult to read. It’s ironic, I was raised this way in a non-Christian family. As a compliant child with a controlling father, I had difficulty with the concept of boundaries, and I still (nearly at retirement age) have trouble making decisions.

    It’s got to be 100 times worse, or maybe 1000, when this kind of de-personing of persons has the apparent “blessing” of God and the Bible.

    Oh absolutely, even women who were not raised in religious homes can grow up with the same issues.

    I’ve read a lot about this stuff, material by both Christian and Non-Christian authors.

    Women can be codependent if they were raised in non-religious families where they were emotionally neglected as children, and/or if one or both parents had a mental health problem, or alcohol or drug addiction, or if there was physical or sexual abuse.

    Or, it can be due to other factors, like having a controlling parent, like in your case (one of my parents was a ‘helicopter’ parent who didn’t encourage me to make my own choices or to be a risk-taker.
    My other parent was hyper-critical; he turned me into a perfectionist who plays it safe and was afraid to try new things; and this stuff also contributed to my situation.
    My mother led me to believe that these traits and habits were what God wanted in girls and women).

    In Christian households, this stuff is taught under the guise of it is “God’s will for women, it’s biblical.”

    Maybe in a way it can be harder to break away from this behavior if you come from a religious family and you are serious about wanting to please God and be a good Christian, because you are taught if you reject gender comp/ patriarchy (the religious forms of codependency), that you are supposedly compromising the word of God, you have been influenced by secular feminists, etc.

    But absolutely, women who did not grow up in Christian or other religious families can learn the same mal-adaptive coping skills and carry them into adulthood, such as avoiding confrontation, being passive, lacking boundaries, having a hard time making their own choices, etc.

    Secular culture still pressures girls and women to be shrinking, nice, passive little violets who don’t rock the boat. Women are discouraged in secular culture from being assertive and penalized if they are. And then you have churches which double down on this crud, and tell women it’s their Godly design or woman role to play in life.

    Like

  75. R. Lloyd
    September 6, 2015 @ 9:23 AM

    For the record, I attend Christ Church. Christ Church has a population of over a thousand. About 30% are under 18. I think I briefly met Sitler once. A lot of misinformation about Doug’s character is being presented here. He is not in favor of women being doormats. Just the opposite in fact. Reading his books, if you bothered to read them would show you that. Many of the people on this board profess Christ, yet except for a couple of posts, there is no charity on your part here. You are acting like the Christians who are devouring one another. Paul warns against this. Sitler has not violated his parole since his actions have only been between his ears so he can’t be arrested.
    I forget what fallacy this represents. A summary would be “If you don’t go to Christ Church, you have no right to hold, much less express, an opinion.”

    Regarding the bolded text, what standard did Jesus set in the Sermon on the Mount? (In specific, Matthew 5:27-30)

    Was the marriage unwise? Yes. Sitler should have married someone who couldn’t have kids.
    Paul said that not marrying was an equally valid option, even superior in some instances. Marriage is not the be-all and end-all of existence. Think of the life-sentence you are condemning his wife (barren or fruitful) to serve. Wilson was right that all this proceeds from Sitler’s original criminal actions. What I don’t understand is why you seem to insist that there be no continuing consequences to protect future victims?

    A lot of pedophiles don’t touch their own kids, but their friends would be at risk.
    Really? Do you have any statistics to this effect? And all that aside, what kind of family life are you espousing? Kids who can never invite their friends home with them, without endangering their friends. Sheesh.

    I am very active on a blog written by a woman who was married to a pedophile for forty years, bore him eleven children and didn’t know until the very end. Her husband, John Hinton was a pastor of a Church of Christ in Pennsylvania. Her middle son, Jimmy, also became a pastor and had to call the cops on his own father, when he found out what was happening. I don’t have my head in the sand about this.
    Actually, I think you do. I used to go to a church where Doug Wilson was invited to come and teach on occasion. Similar teachings were presented at that church by the teaching elders. I read all of Wilson’s books and tried my best to apply it in my life. The teachings were toxic and our doing our best to live out those teachings nearly destroyed our family. We are much healthier now, after being out of that culture for months, but healing our relationships, for one thing, may take the rest of our lives. Our adult children bear permanent emotional scars from being raised in that culture.

    My head is not in the sand, not any longer, but I think when I was in the middle of it I would have been unable to recognize my own blindness. So forgive me for being skeptical about the veracity of your own perceptions.

    Whether Doug was wise to officiate the wedding or not, here we are.
    Too true. Where do we go from here? Any solution is going to be painful. Leaving the child in the family risks the child’s well-being, no matter how carefully chaperoned. What kind of family life will they ever be able to have? Imagine a father, unable to pick up his hurt child, weeping over a scraped knee. (Oh, wait, this child is male, and in that culture, it’s more common to discourage a male child from weeping over a scraped knee.) Imagine a father, unable to hold a child in his lap, or sit close to a child, reading aloud classic literature, or teaching Bible truths?

    Screaming at Doug is not going to make anything better.
    I don’t believe I am screaming. Do you?

    Cursing patriarchy the way many of you do is not godly, so don’t expect God to bless it.
    Patriarchy is an unBiblical practice, actually condemned by our Lord (Luke 22:25, for starters). In Christ there is neither male nor female. Patriarchy, as exemplified in the OT, was hardly a shining example of godliness.

    Like I said, I have only met Sitler once. I don’t know him. Repentance can be a very ongoing thing. Maybe Sitler really does want to change. Look how you are all reacting when he admits under polygraph that he has been tempted?
    It is because of the logical progression of what can follow temptation, and how high the stakes are. We are talking about something that, if it is allowed to happen, will haunt this innocent child for the rest of his life. Perhaps you were never molested as a child. I congratulate you on your ability to avoid such grief. It might make you less empathetic, however, and less convinced of the importance of protecting children from molestation. Believe me, it is horrific and once done, cannot be undone. And it is something that the child will live with for the rest of his life.
    (14But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death. –from James 1)

    Something practical you Christians can do is not cursing Doug and start praying for him. after you get the more out of your eyes, engage him on his blog, but not until you stop cursing him in your hearts.
    I am not cursing him as a person. I do pray for him. However, that does not preclude me from pointing out the harm of his attitudes and actions, nor the very real fact that he appears to be a wolf in sheep’s clothing and a false teacher.

    Liked by 3 people

  77. Families were not told by Doug Wilson that Sitler was a pedophile. When Sitler boarded (or visited) in their homes he sexually abused their children. The father
    of one young female victim was threatened with church discipline at Wilson’s church:

    The father of the girl in the second incident told the Intelligence Report that church officials tried to keep that quiet as well. At one point, he said, they threatened to bring him under church discipline for failing to protect his daughter. “It would be like me getting robbed and the police coming over and arresting me because I didn’t have five locks on the door, only one,” he said. “It was just bizarre.”

    https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2006/idaho-pastor-hard-liner-exception-or-two

    Like

  79. Daisy,

    I really appreciate your response to R Lloyd. You didn’t pull any punches. I don’t know if I could have been as forthright as you were in spelling out all the problems with Wilson, patriarchy, etc. so plainly. Thank you!

    Liked by 2 people

  80. Katy,
    “Then he can help pitch some manure”. No, not that!! Isn’t DW already pitching enough manure????? lol

    Like

  81. Thank you, Daisy and Refuge for your well written comments.

    R. Lloyd, the motes in our eyes? That Bible passage suggests that people whose sins are great want to criticize those who sins are smaller without doing anything to their own. It doesn’t apply here. Nothing I have done in my entire life is as bad as molesting a two year old girl. Nothing. That is true for the people I know here as well. Yes, I consider myself better than a child molester, so is Julie Anne, Daisy, Refuge, etc. What do you think – are you better or the same as Sitler?

    And guess what else I haven’t done? Matched up a young woman with a pedophile. Sitler and Katie were not exactly two crazy kids in love and determined to marry. Katie ASKED Christian elders for help in finding a Godly man and Wilson and Iverson failed her.

    I would have talked her out of it and I know this because I talked a former Sunday School student out of marrying a man with sexual problems (and they weren’t even illegal). No young woman deserves to sacrifice herself because some young man hopes she will be the solution to his nonheterosexual desires.

    There is no point in engaging Wilson on his blog because he will never ever admit that he could be wrong about anything.

    Liked by 4 people

  82. R. LIOYD,

    Having read your post I’m assuming that you are one of those 18 year old members or perhaps a bit older, thus I’m going to go easy on you and just say you have taken scripture so out of context that it’s to the point of bastardizing the text. You need to place yourself under a decent , well balanced church that teaches the Word or maybe enroll in a bible college. There are many introductory Bible courses that can be taken on line for a nominal fee, and it is well worth the time and cost. I would also recommend Kay Author a very sound Bible teacher and author of How to study the Bible. She has a huge number of verse by verse courses available.

    Once you have mastered a basic understanding of God’s Word you will clearly see that patriarchy is NOT a Bibical teaching but a divergent theology created and promoted by very weak men, many of whom apparently have some very specific problems in the area of sexual perversion. We have watched many of these men fall hard already and you want to heed that example and steer clear of this false teaching.

    By your own admission Christ churches seem to have a problem with patriarchs that want to have intercourse or other sexual contact with with children . The church you mentioned in Pennsylvania doesn’t shock me and neither does the current matter at Doug Wilson’s church. I am shocked when adults ( Christians or NOT) defend this behavior by supporting a false theology that promoted it. Patriarchal teaching always leads to sexual abuse. The previous mentioned examples, the SGM issues, Doug Phillips, the home school family into group incest from Scott Brown’s integrated church , Bill Gothard, the Duggars, Jack Schaap………

    The list is endless and if I searched another blog I could expand this list ten fold. There is nothing ok or acceptable about sex or inappropriate touching with children. If you are a minor or young person that was subject to any kind of bad touch by adults please seek help. Talk with a counselor at another church, the police or call child protection services. Tell someone and begin healing. There is no excuse for defending evil.

    Liked by 2 people

  83. My husband and I are giving up trying to convince the people we know who are Doug Wilson worshipers. They refuse to listen. We are coming to the conclusion that they are very cult-like.

    Liked by 4 people

  84. RLloyd,

    I can understand how and why you might approach this issue in the way you. Many of us here, have at some time or another, been involved with certain thought reform groups. We might have been attracted to the pseudo intellectualism or being a part of the “in group”. We might have even thought such groups were pious.

    As to your comment, I have read a lot of Doug in the past and followed, at a safe distance, his bizarre doctrine and popularity trajectory with the YRR. So, it is not just this situation but taking all of his teaching (Black and Tan which was Slavery As It Was until the scholars creamed it, not to mention his conquer/ penetrate/colonize remarks concerning women and much more) into consideration when looking at this issue. From my perspective and experience he comes off as one with serious narcissistic tendencies. He seems to crave an audience.

    As with many thought reform gurus, his pseudo intellectualism with a deterministic patriarchal foundation is catching up to him in real time. His brand of cheap grace is dangerous to babies and other children.

    You are very concerned there be charity for your leader but not so much for a baby. I do understand the need to save face for the decisions we make but at some point, we must come to grips that we are selling our souls to do so. Don’t sell yours. Get out and seek protection for that baby. His Grace is really not that cheap to take chances with the most vulnerable of our society.

    Liked by 2 people

  87. Note: I removed the above screenshot from Katie and Steven’s wedding by request from the person who took the video. You can still see the image at the linked site mentioned in the article, but I suspect he’s going to try to get the owner of the website to remove it as well.

    Like

  88. @lalacy1

    My husband and I are giving up trying to convince the people we know who are Doug Wilson worshipers. They refuse to listen. We are coming to the conclusion that they are very cult-like.

    It may take a crisis in their own lives to wake them up. Even that might not do it. The advice I’ve read in a cult recovery book is to maintain the relationship as much as possible. Continue to be friendly. If they ever do make that break, you’ll be there for them.

    Like

  90. Scott said:

    Patriarchal teaching always leads to sexual abuse.

    Wash, rinse, repeat. Patriarchy is a man-made ideology. Jesus never married, so if we’re going to follow His example . . . I marvel at people who equate Patriarchy with Godliness.

    Like

  91. As a single guy I feel weird even mentioning this BUT since daisy did already….

    Why are people asking pastors & leader wannabes sexual questions related to performance and satisfying their spouse ? Do people really think these folks are like sex experts or something ? Only your spouse can answer these questions anyway so why not just test all things and see what works? Asking some idiot like Wilson for sex advice is like asking ” hey how can I objectify my wife” ?

    I just don’t get it, what’s up with that ?

    Liked by 3 people

  92. I don’t get it either. Maybe those men are going to certain pastors to be reassured that – once again – it is the wife’s fault if that aspect of the marriage isn’t satisfactory. As Scott and Daisy point out, anyone who genuinely wanted to know how to improve things would just ask their spouse. Because that actually does work.

    Like

  93. Scott, you and Daisy do have a good point. I’m married, and there’s no way the missus or I would go to a pastor for help on our intimate lives. Why would we do that? Why must these guys over-spiritualize things? There’s this painful insistence on complicating things: dating–sorry – courtship, sex…. Everything must have rules and authority, and a Biblical™ answer. Why would you WANT to give someone that much of a foothold in your personal life?

    My own mother and half my siblings can’t even burp without wondering if the pastor approves. What darned way to live.

    Liked by 2 people

  96. Mr. R Lloyd shows all manner of solicitousness and concern for Doug Wilson and Steven Sitler, yet makes it ABSOLUTELY clear that he does not give one good goddamn about the children that Sitler has victimized, and that Doug Wilson has helped Sitler victimize, INCLUDING Sitler’s own BABY CHILD. What in God’s name is wrong with you? Are you deranged???

    Mr. Lloyd sir, your post here disgusts me beyond all description. I genuinely feel nauseated by your words. I literally feel the urge to vomit and defecate simultaneously at your words . I cannot possibly express my contempt for your apologetics any stronger in this context without resorting to obscenities. How on earth can you defend these pathetic excuses, these horrifying counterfeits for human beings and look yourself in the mirror? Are you utterly barking mad??

    This. This. Is. Why. I. Will. Never. EVER. Set foot in another church. Damn your words. You don’t show Christ. You show the exact opposite in every possible manner. Viper. Whited sepulcher.

    Liked by 2 people

  97. This story literally makes me blind with rage at that stupid, stupid church. Why is there no concern for the victims, none whatsoever? Why is there only concern for the image of Doug Wilson’s ministry and the welfare of a convicted pedophile? WHY DO THE VICTIMS NOT MATTER AT ALL?? ARE THEY MERE COLLATERAL IN THE SERVICE OF THE CHURCH??

    Liked by 3 people

  98. I hear ‘ya, Dash (both of your posts).

    In case you missed all of the outrageous ways they have enabled this pedophile, they threatened another one of his victim’s father with church discipline for NOT protecting the child! When it suits them they use the ole *repentance* card and when it does work out and a child gets sexually abused they will *blame the victim* and the *family*.

    “The father of the girl in the second incident told the Intelligence Report that church officials tried to keep that quiet as well. At one point, he said, they threatened to bring him under church discipline for failing to protect his daughter. “It would be like me getting robbed and the police coming over and arresting me because I didn’t have five locks on the door, only one,” he said. “It was just bizarre.”

    https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2006/idaho-pastor-hard-liner-exception-or-two

    Like

  99. Pingback: Doug Wilson’s Defense of Child Molestor Steven Sitler | Homeschoolers Anonymous

  100. I do not follow Doug Wilson, nor any patriarchal pastor/man/system at this current time in my life so take this comment/question with a literal grain of salt.

    I wonder if Doug Wilson or any other patriarchal type and shadow of a religious lord it over authority would marry their OWN daughter to a pedophile, like the man in this article? Would these pastors counsel their OWN daughters and covertly “arrange” a marriage with a known pedophile attending their churches?

    Or, would these patriarchal men do everything in their power to prevent their own daughter’s from becoming involved with sexual deviancy?

    Note to Scott: “Why are people asking pastors and leader wannabes sexual questions related to performance and satisfying their spouse?”

    Because pastors and leaders make you believe they love you, desire god’s best for you, and tell you over and over again that our Holy Scriptures command us to place our trust in the ‘church’ leadership system. Then after they have gained their victims’ trust, they will use that personal information like a gnat over a hungry snake against you if you do not tow the religious party line…….another words…..everything you say and do, goes back to the ‘church board, pastor, eldership minions’ so they can manipulate and control everything that you do. And if an individual chooses to follow Jesus, instead of men and women, that snake with gulp you up in one swift bite!

    Does Doug Wilson truly love Jesus’ sheep as Christ loves his ekklesia? Really?

    Liked by 1 person

  101. I followed a link someone posted on the Wartburg Watch and saw a scan of a letter to the judge written by Sitler’s probation officer. Of concern was his failure to pass a lie detector test PLUS admissions he did make.

    “Mr. Sitler took another polygraph test on August 22, 2015 and failed another question. Attached in a sealed envelope are the polygraph results. Of concern is [specifies paragraphs throughout the report]. With these new disclosures and the heinous nature of these violations, Idaho Department of Correction Section Two Supervisor Rene Behrens ordered Mr. Sitler completely off his residence property and ordered him to have no contact with his son.

    In this polygraph, Mr. Sitler disclosed that he told his wife about some of these incidents. Since she did not report them to probation as required of a chaperone, she is no longer an approved chaperone by the Idaho Department of Correction. Mr. Sitler has not been disclosing information to his treatment providers but has been to Dr. Wilson who is not a specialized sexual offender treatment provider approved by the State of Idaho Sex Offender Management Board (SOMB). Mr. Sitler continues to do things his way and continues to make disclosures while still failing the polygraphs to which leaves one to think how much he is not disclosing.”

    This tells us that whatever he did disclose is heinous and that his wife knew about at least some of the incidents. The word ‘incidents’ does not suggest to me that the violations were only thoughts as R. Lloyd indicated in his post. Despite everything he apparently told, Sitler still cannot pass a polygraph to indicate that he has told everything.

    And finally Wilson’s meddling is problematic. Sitler will tell Wilson information that he won’t tell the therapists whose reports could have his probation revoked.

    Liked by 2 people

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