Mark Driscoll’s New Website, New Image, and the Stuff He Forgot to Mention

Mark Driscoll’s new website: what he’s sharing about himself and what he leaves out of his story

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Surprise, surprise, surprise! About one week before all of the Mars Hill churches that Pastor Mark Driscoll founded some 18 years ago are about to close, Driscoll has published a brand new website.

On the front page you can find blog articles, sermons, and a free e-book. Clicking on the “About” page, you are greeted with. “About Pastor Mark” with

this size font, because it’s all about Pastor Mark . . . ya know:

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As I read through the About page and the nauseating details that were chosen to highlight his accomplishments, I noticed some missing elements of his past years in ministry and thought it might be helpful to fill in some gaps.

The first paragraph is more self-aggrandizement, including a link referring to Driscoll being one of the 25 most influential pastors of the past 25 years. Major yawn moment:

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Pastor Mark Driscoll is a Jesus-following, mission-leading, church-serving, people-loving, Bible-preaching pastor. In 2010, Preaching magazine named him one of the 25 most influential pastors of the past 25 years. He’s grateful to be a nobody trying to tell everybody about Somebody.

There’s more:

Pastor Mark is the author of many books, has written for CNN, Fox News, and The Washington Post, and has been featured as a columnist for The Seattle Times.

Ok, that sounds impressive, until you read this part which was conveniently left out: “Seattle’s Mars Hill Church paid a California-based marketing company at least $210,000 in 2011 and 2012 to ensure that Real Marriage, a book written by Mark Driscoll, the church’s founding pastor, and his wife Grace, made the New York Times best-seller list.” (Source)

The following paragraph to me is the most disconcerting sentence of all (bolded by yours truly):

With a skillful mix of bold presentation, accessible teaching, and unrelenting compassion for those who are hurting the most—particularly women who are victims of sexual and physical abuse and assault—Pastor Mark has taken biblical Christianity into cultural corners rarely explored by evangelicals.

Remember, this is the guy who has hurt many women by his misogynistic teachings. Scores of families left Mars Hill spiritually wounded because of abrasive and heavy-handed authoritarianism. If Driscoll had such “unrelenting compassion” for the hurting, there would be no need for these websites set up specifically for Mars Hill refugees: Mars Hill Refuge, Joyful ExilesWe Are Not Anonymous, Re-connect, Musings from Under the Bus.

Also missing from the About page is Driscoll’s opinionated views of sex. I’ve never heard a pastor speak so strongly regarding sexual practices that husbands and wives should be deciding for themselves in the privacy of their own relationship.

“A Manly Man Uses His Penis” Pastor Mark Driscoll

In 2000, Driscoll participated in an online forum and admitted using the pseudonym William Wallace II. The posts by “William Wallace II” were disturbing. Many of the posts (140 pages) can be found here. There were so many shocking excerpts, but take a look at a couple of screenshots showing how preoccupied he is with his manhood (including his manly member).

 ******CRUDE LANGUAGE WARNING******

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Source Page 58

 “[P]ussified – any man who has lost his rocks and completed the process of remaining biologically male but become female in all other ways.”  

~William Wallace II aka Mark Driscoll

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Page 105

Page 105

After these posts resurfaced this year, Driscoll did issue some sort of apology about it, but he didn’t apologize about his other sexual teachings, so that seems to make his apology meaningless.

If you are new to Driscoll’s fixation on sex, check out this excerpt from a message delivered in Edinburgh in 2007 (ladies, brace yourselves):

[In recounting the story about the man who started coming to Driscoll’s church because his wife began performing oral sex:]

She [the wife] says, “I’ve never performed oral sex on my husband. I’ve refused to.” I said, “You need to go home and tell your husband that you’ve met Jesus and you’ve been studying the Bible, and that you’re convicted of a terrible sin in your life. And then you need to drop his trousers, and you need to serve your husband. And when he asks why, say, ‘Because I’m a repentant woman. God has changed my heart and I’m supposed to be a biblical wife.’” She says, “Really?” I said, “Yeah. First Peter 3 says if your husband is an unbeliever to serve him with deeds of kindness.” [Laughter from audience] How many men would agree, that is a deed of kindness. He doesn’t want tracts. Those won’t do anything. What we’re talking about here could really help. (Source)

It’s odd that Driscoll would leave his favorite topics of sex and manhood out of the About page, isn’t it? Going back to Driscoll’s About page we read:

He has been grilled by Whoopi Goldberg and Barbara Walters on The View, gone head-to-head with Piers Morgan on CNN, debated the existence of evil with Deepak Chopra on ABC’s Nightline, bantered with the gang on Fox and Friends, and explained biblical sexuality on Loveline with Dr. Drew.

Oh yes, and he has also gone head-to-head with Janet Mefferd (The Janet Mefferd Show) in which she strongly questioned him about the material he used in his books. You can hear the infamous interview here:

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This exchange exploded on the internet with blogger, Warren Throckmorton, discovering even more examples that seemed to be plagiarized.

The About summary continues with Driscoll taking credit for the Acts 29 Network he founded. However, it’s funny that he didn’t mention this note published by the Acts 29 board only a few months ago in August of 2014:

It is with deep sorrow that the Acts 29 Network announces its decision to remove Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church from membership in the network. Mark and the Elders of Mars Hill have been informed of the decision, along with the reasons for removal. It is our conviction that the nature of the accusations against Mark, most of which have been confirmed by him, make it untenable and unhelpful to keep Mark and Mars Hill in our network. (Source)

Also, in Driscoll’s account, he is given credit for helping in the Haiti earthquake and founding a ministry with James MacDonald, but yet we read another sad account on how he treated a female missionary, Yvonne Trimble.  Another detail missed.

So, meanwhile the Mars Hill empire is closing at the end of the year with a bang and the final sermon will be preached by Saddleback Church’s pastor, Rick Warren, and what does Driscoll ask on his brand spanking new website?  He asks people to . . .

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Yes, the donations he wants you to give will go to Learning for Living which is “an application-pending registered 501(c)3 nonprofit organization.”  (What in the heck is Learning for Living?)  How timely for this website to go public so people can get their charitable giving done by December 31, 2014.

photo credit: William Brawley via photopin cc

80 comments on “Mark Driscoll’s New Website, New Image, and the Stuff He Forgot to Mention

  1. Tim, Jeremiah 13:23 is completely accurate for the occasion. It didn’t take Driscoll long to find a new money making scheme. You’d think he would run out of ill informed people willing to give him money

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  2. Surely this is the final nail in the idea that Driscoll has been in it for anything but money and personal glory. Complete whitewashed tomb, he is.

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  3. How can someone still call themselves a pastor if they don’t have a church to pastor? Sounds like title worship to me.

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  4. I had never listened to the Mefferd interview before. Does anyone know whether anything happened as a result? Was the citation issue corrected? What denomination is Janet Mefferd?

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  5. Gracie asks, “How can someone still call themselves a pastor if they don’t have a church to pastor?” It depends on the meaning of the words “pastor” and “church.” If a pastor is somebody who enters the limelight behind the pulpit every Sunday, and spends the rest of his time acting as the CEO of a 501(c)(3) organization, the main focus of which is to attract members, create a name for itself, and raid it’s victims’ bank accounts, then a man without a church cannot call himself a pastor. I would contend that a man who leads such a church cannot call himself a true pastor in the biblical sense of being a shepherd.

    If a pastor is somebody who shepherds or ministers to the Ekklesia, to the called out members of the body of Christ, and if he does so without office or claimed authority to impose their will on others, then s/he can be a pastor without an organized “church.” To the extent I might profit from such a pastor, I would not look to “pastor” Driscoll.

    Though I will not mention names, for fear of omitting somebody who deserves to be mentioned, there are many who regularly post here who are true pastors, meaning shepherds. There is/have been more than one who do so from within the context of an organized church.

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  6. Thanks Gary. I agree with your comments about MD. I have never seen the title of pastor used outside of a church, but yes, I can see how any good shepherd could be called pastor.

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  7. So much for Driscoll’s repentance, eh?

    Honestly, if I didn’t know Driscoll was masquerading as a pastor I’d have assumed he was part of the manosphere. Is it just me, or does anyone else have difficulty imagining Jesus preaching the Sermon on the Mount and mentioning “how a manly man uses his penis?” Would that come somewhere after how the meek shall inherit the Earth?

    it doesn’t surprise me one bit that he’s asking for money. Seems like that’s what the institutional “church” is ALL about these days, including Driscoll.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Keith B –

    I’m curious as to why Janet Meffords denomination matters.

    FYI – she caught all kinds of grief publically and behind the scenes for that interview. An interview, mind you, that Driscoll’s people set up . . . to promote his book.
    She did what no one else would do. She called MD to task on what she found in the book.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. BTDT,
    I can’t imagine Jesus preaching on the subject at all, much less on the Sermon on the Mount. I don’t recall him saying anything about what goes on in the bedroom, living room floor, kitchen table or back seat of the car. Oops, my mistake that is John Piper.

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  10. Bridget,
    Was the grief that Janet M caught from the Driscoll camp? I can’t see where she said anything at all out of the way whatsoever.

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  11. See, here’s the problem. I would like to attempt a more measured approach than what I frequently have indulged in the past. Then these preachers come along talking about manly men and their urinary prumbing. I can barely restrain myself.

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  12. Gary W- Glad you are back, or did I miss your comments of late? “Then these preachers come along talking about manly men and their urinary prumbing. I can barely restrain myself.”
    Markymark sure doesn’t restrain or hold back! Good on you for attempting to take a more measured approach. However, I cheer from the side lines when you tell it like it is. Merry Christmas!

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  13. Just in time for Christmas…. the present that no one wants. And he can call himself anything he wants, just like the self appointed apostles and prophets of the NAR. Religion leaves itself open to all kinds of narcissist with no checks and balances. They just have to find vulnerable people to be brainwashed.

    Liked by 2 people

  14. This was my favorite line in his bio:

    “He’s grateful to be a nobody trying to tell everybody about Somebody.”

    He’s “grateful to be a nobody” who’s trying to prove that he is somebody. Somebody worth your time and energy and money.

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  15. Good morning Gail, and thanks for the welcome back. You are right, I have gone missing for awhile, and may continue to be rather more absent than not. Lots of stuff going on, and even when I could have made time for blogging I have tended, rather, to seek the refuge of a good book and the ol’ recliner.

    Merry Christmas to you and all!

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Keith B –

    I’m curious as to why Janet Meffords denomination matters.

    So it can be used against her in “Consider the Source” denunciations for Apostasy, Heresy, and FALSE Doctrine, of course.

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  17. He obviously worships mostly himself and his “manly parts.” I have a feeling he’ll be in the news again – this time with some story about an odd sexual perversions he’s “working through.” (Gag.)

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Bridget R. I am curious as to her denomination for two reasons 1) I don’t see any mention of it on her blog, although she displays a quote from Luther, which piqued my interest 2) It helps me to understand the dynamic between three parties mentioned in the interview, MacArthur, Driscoll and Jones, and the interviewer.

    Headless: I cannot understand your prejudice regarding my motives. Further, I do not know how to remedy it. Do you always put the worst gloss on the questions of others?

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  19. Headless: Stated more directly, you are wrong about my motives.

    They might not be your motives, but a LOT of MD Fanboys will take that tack and run with it. Saw the same dynamic when Mike Warnke was exposed as a fraud, and in most every Fundagelical sex scandal.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. @Carol:

    He obviously worships mostly himself and his “manly parts.”

    Just like all those Baalist fertility cults that surrounded ancient Judaism.
    And the Cult of Priapus in Rome.
    And the sacred “lingams” (stylized phallic columns) of India.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. Headless: “They might not be your motives”. They are not my motives, and it is shabby of you to have implied otherwise.

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  22. I really cannot stand this obsession with sexuality, especially using coarse/profane/obscene lanuage, while describing this as the essence of manliness.

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  23. It is shameless, isn’t it. welcome to the face of American evangelicalism. It is brand managed and consumer driven. and he will have a whole new set of followers in no time to go along with his “cheap forgiveness” current sycophant followers.

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  24. And for some reason, there are going to be lemmings that will bankroll him all over again. I have no doubts there are folks just itching to have him back onstage and “preaching” again. I don’t get it, but nothing surprises me anymore.

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  25. Keith, Mefford almost lost her job over this. in fact she had to make a sort of retraction. and she was eviscerated by the evangelical crowd. But lo and behold she was right and it all came tumbling down soon after. Along with Throckmorton.

    and I have not seen any of those same people taking her to task on Twitter and in the blogosphere admit she was right. if I recall correctly ingrid schlueter left that radio channel over this.

    unless you have been in that world you cannot believe the pressure that comes from trying to out a celebrity “pastor”. the wagons circle because there is so much money involved. be prepared to be ruined if you make your living in the evangelical realm. that is why it goes on for so long.

    what scares me the most is that Driscoll was so popular for so long. I was listening to him many years ago and saw the major red flags. he was a false teacher back then too. but he preached a macho Jesus and people loved it.

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  26. Anita, Driscoll has given us clues. He is going with the wise old uncle shitck sprinkled with charismata.

    the bad boy in your face for Jesus wearing Mickey Mouse t-shirt and puka shells is passe. he is too old to pull it off and knows it. so he is rebranding. I noticed the tweed jackets not long ago.

    what concerns me is Grace aging. if we take the whole of what he has communicated about women over the last 15 years, she could be in real trouble.

    I only wish that she would have gotten out. but those kind of women learn to live with a sociopathic narcissist. it becomes near normal and there is the money. What would she do?

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  27. I think the celebrity pastor phenomenon seems to happen much more in non-liturgical churches. Just a thought.

    Apropos “macho Jesus”, it seems they have traded the historical person for a one-dimensional character, just as the “wimpy Jesus” supporters did.

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  28. Keith, Mefford almost lost her job over this. in fact she had to make a sort of retraction. and she was eviscerated by the evangelical crowd. But lo and behold she was right and it all came tumbling down soon after. Along with Throckmorton.

    and I have not seen any of those same people taking her to task on Twitter and in the blogosphere admit she was right. if I recall correctly ingrid schlueter left that radio channel over this.

    Ingrid Schlueter posted about it in comments here on my blog right after the interview – she resigned her job (working with Mefferd because of this mess), and then I was asked to remove the comments. But Warren Throckmorton already got the screenshot of her comments and posted about it. This seriously went down in minutes. It was a mess. There are some powerful people who wanted Driscoll to remain on the throne at any cost. Ingrid was part of that cost, but Mefferd thankfully kept her job.

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  29. I really cannot stand this obsession with sexuality, especially using coarse/profane/obscene lanuage, while describing this as the essence of manliness.

    Keith, if you read the 140 page link I referred to in the article, you can see that he was creating some sort of mens club where they were discussing how to be men. It really did remind me of Mens Rights groups. The focus on genitalia and sex, coming from a pastor, is disgusting. It sounds more like Doug Wilson’s conquer and colonize wording. I think I’ll add a “crude wording” warning on the post.

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  30. I’m still a bit uncertain about how that Mefford interview played out in the end. I remember listening to it and thinking how it was good that someone was finally standing up to him, asking hard questions and not backing down. Then she ended up apologizing for how she was during the interview. I thought an apology was unwarranted. Julie Anne, do you know if she’s ever addressed her apology after everything that has happened?

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  31. And cue the cries of those who will say we can’t judge Mark because “we don’t know his heart,” but if any one of us non-famous, non-influential Christians engages in the same behavior, we’d probably be called on it.

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  32. No, I don’t. Actually, although I agreed with her in content on the interview, I said in a blog post or comment somewhere that I thought she may have crossed the line in her tone with him I can’t say that I wouldn’t have done the same thing if I had the opportunity – – who knows what other information she had that was fueling her anger. People were upset at me for expressing that opinion. Oh well. The point is that she was the one who stuck her neck out and asked the very tough questions that the Band of Brothers refused to address.

    I’m sure it also didn’t look good that a woman did the calling out. All this business about the importance of manly men in authority and they were the ones who were weak. Janet was the strong one.

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  33. We’re “known by our fruit,” are we not?

    Yes we are, but since Mark is plastic fruit in a fake fruit bowl it is difficult to see the bruises and imperfections for a lot of people

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  34. With Mars Hill closing and asking for money and Driscoll opening another venture and asking for money, no restitution has ever been made by Mars Hill or Driscoll for the enormous harm they did to pastor/elder Paul Petry (a godly man) and his wife Jonna, the firing of Petry, and the shunning of the Petry family.

    Does anyone know how to set up a giving campaign so that they rest of us who are decent folks could give to Paul and Jonna Petry?

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  35. We are, indeed, to know them by their fruit. What form does the fruit sometimes take? Well, Jesus said, “But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.” To say that we are unable to know Driscoll’s heart is simply bogus. We have his words.

    Plus, where in the bible does it say we must passively accept wolves, vipers, snakes, pigs, Pharisees (and the occasional rock star pastor) because we can’t or don’t know their hearts? Rather, I say that if anybody wishes to hold themselves out as a somebody, the burden is on them, not their target audience, to prove the goodness of their heart. It isn’t even that we should trust but verify. It is incumbent upon us to verify first.

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  36. Brenda,

    I wish I could air-mail some to ya. 🙂
    This is the first time we’ve had them from Rosa’s. We usually get them from one of my husband’s employee’s mama. These are really good, though.

    We’re going to settle down afterward to some movies, cookies, hot drinks, and the cat, too. 🙂 She’ll choose from several warm laps. My husband and kids have never seen “It’s a Wonderful Life,” so I’m requesting they watch it at least once.

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  37. I finally broke down and bought the movie and intend to watch it sometime before the first of the year. Have a good time. I’m actually enjoying these movies without interruption. Tomorrow will be lounging by the pool and hot tub at the hotel.

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  38. Brenda,

    That lounging sounds just blissful. Now I’m the jealous one. 🙂
    Enjoy your peaceful holiday. Feliz Navidad.

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  39. “I think the celebrity pastor phenomenon seems to happen much more in non-liturgical churches. Just a thought.”

    Oh, I am starting to see that more. The pastor is not front and center. “He” is not the message. My problem is most liturgical churches are Reformed and I am totally anti Reformed. My beliefs are more Ana Baptist in nature. Total libertarian free will for me. No state church mentality allowed in my world. No Luther or Calvin allowed for me. I cannot stand them. Read too much of them and don’t agree with them at all.

    I am finding some Baptist (not in the typical evangelical mold) churches that are becoming more and more liturgical from a bit of a different standpoint. It is refreshing. I attended one tonight for Eve service. Very majestic music and the King was front and center. Not the speakers.

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  40. “And cue the cries of those who will say we can’t judge Mark because “we don’t know his heart,” but if any one of us non-famous, non-influential Christians engages in the same behavior, we’d probably be called on it.”

    As if there is something different in his “heart” than what comes out with words/deeds. Right.. This is one of my pet peeves in most of evangelicalism to excuse bad behavior.. it is nothing but an excuse. We can only judge words/actions. And if what is in his heart is different than his words/actions, then he is responsible. Intelligent people NEVER dismiss words/actions. Narcissists are well known for saying we cannot judge their heart. Well, who needs to? What they do and say is our clue to who they are.

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  41. Lydia said, “the bad boy in your face for Jesus wearing Mickey Mouse t-shirt and puka shells is passe. he is too old to pull it off and knows it. so he is rebranding. I noticed the tweed jackets not long ago.”

    Yep. He said so in an article I saw months ago. He was purposefully growing a beard, wearing jackets with patches on the elbows, because he wants to brand himself as a “pastor to pastors,” which means he had to dump aspects of the frat boy persona, though IMO, he still has the frat boy attitude and opinions, he’s only changed the trappings (clothing, facial hair, etc)

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  42. @ Keith Blankenship.
    I’m sorry if you felt offended by HUG asking about your motives or making assumptions about them, but this happens all the time on blogs that criticize churches, the Christian faith, or famous preachers.

    I’ve seen this happen over and over and over on blogs and forums since I’ve been on the internet for over ten years. You have people who are so slavishly devoted to a particular doctrine or denomination, they will defend it no matter what.

    Which means, for instance, even if a man who is a preacher is a grandma-mugging, candy- stealing- from- babies jerk and a half, his church members (his fans and groupies) will come on to blogs that dare criticize him at all, because they dig his theology.

    If they agree with the doctrines that he teaches in his books, blogs, and sermons, his fans will overlook, rationalize, or defend his grandma- mugging tendencies.

    IMO, with guys like Driscoll, it’s more than just doctrine. I think some of his fan boys defend him no matter what because they also like his image – the macho guy who wears converse sneakers on stage, it’s not just about doctrine with them, he’s their hero, or the older, cooler big brother figure.

    Anyway, when you come on to a blog such as this one, where people have been hurt in one way or another by a church, group of Christians or a denomination, some of us do tend to be suspicious when one of the first things a person asks in a dispute is “what is so and so’s theological beliefs / church / denomination.”

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  43. @ Kathi said, “Julie Anne, do you know if she’s ever addressed her apology after everything that has happened?”

    In the several months after it blew over, yes Meffered addressed the whole situation a time or two on her show, which is archived here,
    http://www.janetmefferdpremium.com/

    I cannot recall the exact shows/ dates/ times where she discussed it, and my memory is a little hazy. On what little I do recall, she said she was not sorry for going after Driscoll in the end.

    I think she may have said she was under a lot of pressure behind the scenes to air an apology in public on her show(?)

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  44. @Missdaisyflower: Headless could simply apologise for writing that. I have posted here on and off for some time, and have never written anything that was pro-Driscoll. I was simply asking questions.

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  45. Keith, Asking a persons denominational ties has become touchy on many blogs because everyone is scared of a food fight on doctrine. I tend to think it might, in some cases, give us some clues as to where someone is coming from. Not always, though.

    As you know I am totally anti Reformed. Cannot stand it that theology and think it impugns God’s character. However, for many years the Presbyterian seminary here were my clients. They were the liberal crowd, though, who focused more on social justice than the determinism of the current neo Cals. They tended to ignore Calvin. Wonderful people.

    When you get into the more conservative (for want of a better word) Reformed groups like OPC/CREC/SBC and others, they tend to love arguing and control.

    There is a ton of what I see as cognitive dissonance going on out there. IFB folks are Protestant, albeit free willers, but act like a controlling state church. In essence, they act like the Neo Reformed crowd. However, I have met and worked with Lutherans who seem to act as if they do not believe like Luther, that reason is a whore and suffering is essential to piety and are quite into free will— ignoring their own confession.

    I think all of this a good thing. I would hope all this chatter makes us think long and hard about what we believe and what we are supporting, even indirectly, in those beliefs. We should question our links with denominations and what that means in the larger picture.

    Do words or names mean anything anymore? That is the question.

    Liked by 1 person

  46. Okay, Keith Blankenship, but it’s common on some forums or blogs (especially ones where people who have been hurt by churches or Christians) for someone to say, “Now that I know your denomination is X,” or, “Now that I know your theology is Z,” that, “I will no longer listen to you or take your points seriously. I will just totally dismiss anything you say because you believe A about Z, but I believe B about Z.” That happens quite a bit.

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  47. I was nauseated when I read that MD has started his new website — so nauseated that I had to wait a day or two before I read this whole post.

    Can an Ethiopian change his skin or a leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil. —That verse from Jermiah is perfect for MD.

    And this one also:

    For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness SUPPRESS THE TRUTH. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are WITHOUT EXCUSE. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but THEY BECAME FUTILE IN THEIR THINKING, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. (Romans 1:18-23)

    He reminds me of the Emperor Nero, wreaking mayhem and vile crimes with his gang of sexually perverted thugs as they prowled the streets of Rome, and then fiddling while Rome burned.

    As for those who may follow Mark Driscoll now, what comes to mind is this:

    Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thess 2:11-12)

    and
    Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the LORD has declared disaster for you. (2 Kings 22:23)

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  48. I was nauseated when I read that MD has started his new website — so nauseated that I had to wait a day or two before I read this whole post.

    MD remains as full of himself as ever.

    Liked by 2 people

  49. Just wondering. Lydia and lydia00, are you the same person, or two different people?

    GaryW, glad to see you again. Your voice of reason was one of the reasons I didn’t completely walked away from the Bible when we left our old church, though I came close, and some days am still teetering in the balance. Sad (for me at least) to say, both our teens have walked away from faith in Christ. One of them still believes in a God of some sort, though not heaven or hell or even the Bible (saying things like the god of the old testament was a sadistic, psychopathic, egotistical bully), and the other doesn’t believe at all.

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  50. JA,
    “unrelenting compassion for those who are hurting the most—particularly women who are victims of sexual and physical abuse and assault”

    Yes, that was what jumped out at me when I went and read the website, before reading through your blog post. Unrelenting something, maybe — (“predation” comes to mind), but I wouldn’t call it compassion.

    Reading that particular phrasing turned my stomach — actual, physical nausea. There may be men out there who live that sort of compassion — I have read some comments here on this blog from men who sound as if they truly resonate with the pain of the abused, though I don’t know them personally and, frankly, don’t find it in me to trust anyone at all at this point — but I would not number MD as one of them.

    Yes, Jeremiah 13:23.

    Liked by 1 person

  51. As you know I am totally anti Reformed. Cannot stand it that theology and think it impugns God’s character. However, for many years the Presbyterian seminary here were my clients. They were the liberal crowd, though, who focused more on social justice than the determinism of the current neo Cals. They tended to ignore Calvin. Wonderful people.

    When you get into the more conservative (for want of a better word) Reformed groups like OPC/CREC/SBC and others, they tend to love arguing and control.

    Lydia, add the PCA to your list (yeah, I know, you weren’t trying to post an exhaustive, comprehensive list). I understand now some of the reasons why a friend of mine sneered at Presbyterians, early in our acquaintance. Ironically, she is now a big fan of John Piper.

    The people at the neo Cal church we used to attend were really good at putting reformed thought in terms of showing how incredibly great god’s love is. You weren’t supposed to focus on the poor lost souls going to hell/damnation/eternal torment, you were supposed to marvel that god was generous and loving enough to save anybody at all. Now it feels like a rabbit-hat trick to me. You know, that diversionary thing a magician does to distract your attention from how he does the trick.

    Liked by 1 person

  52. Pity the women related in any way to these ungodly men–starting with Mark Driscoll, whose foul, crude, and demonic hearts crush the spirit of their loved ones in the name of God.

    Liked by 1 person

  53. “Narcissists are well known for saying we cannot judge their heart”.
    Omigosh!! They have HEARTS?????? :-0
    Could have fooled me.

    Like

  54. For those interested, I just posted on my blog a series of pages that captures my 2014 research work about failures of pastoral, organizational, and non-profit systems at Mars Hill Church.

    This used to be a series of posts, but it was difficult to find some topics because the posts went live over a five-month period. So, I reduced duplication, reorganized the material, and hopefully made it far easier to navigate.

    To access the material, click on the main page for Mars Hill Church Case Study. There you will find a complete Table of Contents, with links to the subpages.

    https://futuristguy.wordpress.com/mars-hill-case-study/

    Like

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