Doug Phillips & Vision Forum: Multi-Generational Faithfulness and Video of Young Boy Explaining the Importance of Having Many Children for 10 Generations

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I’d like to spotlight some of the common teachings and practices that Doug Phillips and Vision Forum promoted.  Many of these teachings go far beyond Doug Phillips and Vision Forum and have spread via homeschool networking, family-integrated church networking, the internet.

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Doug Phillips and His 200-Year Plan for Multi-Generational Faithfulness

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Over at Bluebehemoth.com, one of Vision Forum’s websites, I found an audio series available called: The 200 Year Plan: A Practicum on Multi-Generational Faithfulness.  I have discovered a certain lingo that is popping out while reading a lot of Vision Forum material.   I have bolded the keywords.

The speakers in the audio are Doug Phillips and Geoff Botkin.  Here is the introduction to the series:

Our age is defined by warfare against the Christian family, and one of the casualties experienced by many families is the death of multi-generational victory. Psalm 128 teaches that it is the hope of the righteous man to see the generations that come after him persevere in Christ

Only God’s grace can produce such a blessed result, but the Bible teaches that parents can make strategic choices which either impede or bless generational faithfulness.

The fact is that Christian families suffer today because they fail to capture the hearts of their children. Too often they fail to communicate vision, convictions, and wisdom to their children. In the battle between pagan culture and the Christian family culture, paganism often wins. The sad response is that too many Christian parents simply give up. Others set their goals so low that their best strategy is simply to see their children “survive” a little bit longer, or to lose the battle for the generations as slowly as possible.

We believe more is needed. Our message is this: To achieve victory, first you must seek it. In the battle for the family, this means making God-honoring and strategic choices which cultivate an environment of honor, faithfulness to Christ, and generational-minded strategic choices. For our children to be mighty in the land, we must embrace a long-term vision of victory, and this will only be achieved if we take steps now to plan and implement multi-generational goals for our families.

If you buy the audio series, it includes over 9 hours and 30 minutes of teachings and 11 lectures.   In addition to the lectures, here are a few slide presentations offered:

Strategic Considerations for Multi-Generational Vision

How to Draft a 200 Year Plan Part 1

The Family Investiture

More can be found at the website.

JA’s questions:

  • What do you notice with the bolded words?  Any common themes?
  • What does it mean to be mighty in the land?
  • What does multi-generational victory mean?
  • How does planning ensure our children will follow the path we’d like for them to travel?

Before closing, I’d like to leave you with this video,  part of the another Vision Forum Project, the “Everyday News Network.”   Families submitted short 30- to 120-second video stories of their every day life.  It’s only 1 minute 45 seconds.

Description from YouTube:

Uploaded on Aug 13, 2008

Julia introduces her family’s new baby and, along with her little brother, describes how children are a blessing from the Lord. Presented by Vision Forum, Doug Phillips, and the Everyday News Network. http://www.visionforum.com

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Do you see any correlation between this video and the multi-generational vision description above?

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60 comments on “Doug Phillips & Vision Forum: Multi-Generational Faithfulness and Video of Young Boy Explaining the Importance of Having Many Children for 10 Generations

  1. This charming little girl who is playing the newscaster wouldn’t be allowed to be a real newscaster when she grows up. THAT is what is sad to me in watching this video clip.

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  2. Coding of the language……..use of new words to bring in “fresh vision and ideas”.
    Actually it is just the same ole’ stuff, just repackaged making people think they are getting new knowledge (Gnosticism)

    Like

  3. Thanks for all your sleuthing, Julie Anne. As someone who used to love everything about Vision Forum and Doug Phillips, I have to say it’s embarrassing to think how I subscribed to all of this. Watching your articles has been a little like watching someone else dig up a corpse. It’s smelly, disgusting, important work. The sooner we can jettison man-made systems like this and get back to loving God and loving our neighbor, the better. Press on!

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  4. Maryl, that is such a good point. I’ve seen this video before, and it bugs me that having 10 billion descendents in 10 generations is seen as a worthy goal. At some point, isn’t it going to get crowded around here?

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  5. And with 10 billion children raised in a restrictive, abusive system we will have 10 billion adults with complex trauma and PTSD. Guess we need to train more mental health professionals to support this coming tide of wounded and broken people!

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  6. As was the case with the Jews of Jesus’ day, these reconstructionists/dominionists are seeking a political salvation and a worldly kingdom. It is all quite opposed to what Jesus taught: “Jesus answered, ‘My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.’ ” (John 18:36, ESV).

    Those who were seeking the wrong kind of Kingdom in Jesus day lost everything in 66–73 A.D., and their defeat was sealed in subsequent skirmishes culminating in the Bar Kokhba rebellion of 132 A.D. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_War. If my understanding of the ending verses of Matthew 25 is correct, those who do not love, including those who are obsessed with the pursuit of worldly religious dominion, may find themselves assigned to the lot of the goats rather than to the reward of the sheep. They may find themselves among those who are “left behind” at the resurrection of the dead.

    Let us not attempt to enlist our children in a battle for worldly domination in the name of any cause whatsoever. Rather, let us endeavor to introduce them to Jesus and to that Kingdom which is founded on Love, not on political clout or any other form of power whatsoever.

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  7. ” Guess we need to train more mental health professionals to support this coming tide of wounded and broken people!”

    Especially since, as I understand it, these Vision Forum style participants in the kingdoms of the cults strictly prohibit anything mental health professionals have to offer.

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  8. Really cute little girl, boy and newborn baby. Yes our children are indeed a blessing! But yeah…. this philosophy is practically identical to that which is found in Islam– “victory through numbers/ breeding more muslims”. It’s all Global Dominionism in the flesh. Physical victory is the goal here. But in the NT we hear Jesus and the apostles teaching and demonstrating that we may physically die for our faith in Christ, and that victory is not at all physical, it is spiritual, through the power of the Holy Spirit. The great “cloud of witnesses” did not and does not strategize for millions of physical/flesh descendents for victory. Their victory is via their faith and enduring, it is by the blood of the Lamb, and the word of their testimony (of Christ) and they love not their lives even unto the death. (Rev12:11). Dominionism is desiring more than anything else, a physical victory over the physical world.

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  9. Multi-Generational Faithfulness and Video of Young Boy Explaining the Importance of Having Many Children for 10 Generations


    OUTBREED THE HEATHEN.

    “We conquer the lands of the Infidel! Our Wombs shall be our Weapons!”
    — attr to Extremist Euro-Mullah

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  10. @Brenda:

    And with 10 billion children raised in a restrictive, abusive system we will have 10 billion adults with complex trauma and PTSD. Guess we need to train more mental health professionals to support this coming tide of wounded and broken people!

    Depends. Does the complex trauma and PTSD make them easier to control by God’s Anointed?

    Like

  11. P.S. That’s “Doug Phillips, ESQUIRE”.
    He really likes that Title of Nobility.
    Uses it all the time on his blog and public announcements.

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  12. @Gary…”As was the case with the Jews of Jesus’ day, these reconstructionists/dominionists are seeking a political salvation and a worldly kingdom.”

    That’s what I’ve discovered in my research in regards to this movement.

    JA: I’m new to posting here, but not new to your blog, which I’ve been following for the past 6 or so months.
    I am/have homeschooled for 18 years and have seen inside the Gothard ideology but not so far inside to be trapped into following his principles. Both my husband and I called Gothard a “whackjob” (the very nerve of him to tell us how to be married and raise a family, when he’s never done any of that..kind of like the childless woman who said having babies is like having a bowel movement…really?). I didn’t ever buy DP’s “bill of goods” either..spotted him as a huckster right off the bat.

    I didn’t know anything about Dominionism/Christian Reconstructionism until 2010 when I began doing some research after a friend cautioned me about posting anti-Dominion/Reconstructionist articles to a local online group because there were plenty of them around in our local area (I kept posting anyway).

    Here I was, in my own happy little world of lovin’ and teachin’ my young’uns (I’m from the South) at home and, then…BAM! Kids who were growing up, becoming adults from the HS days back in the 80’s/90’s, were coming out by saying that homeschooling wasn’t as pleasant (mildly speaking) for them as it was for others. My heart just breaks for these kids. I have older kids and 2 still at home, but we allowed the Lord to show us how to raise them. Sure, we didn’t want them to make the same mistakes we made, but in the end, we quickly found out that they make their own as they get older. We just love on them, support them, and are there for them… may not agree with what some of the things they’re doing, but we’re real people and living in the real world and not on some “high and holy ground.”

    Please let me commend you for allowing a place for others to come share their stories and in doing so, seeing the healing take place. I’m sorry you had to endure abuse yourself, but I’m a firm believer that any suffering we go through is to be able to use it and help others who are in need.

    I was abused as a young child by some extended family members. I didn’t know any better at that young age. It took me a long time to get over the pain of what took place, but in time I’ve learned to forgive (and side-step those rattlesnakes) and move on, helping others in their struggle. Nothing to me is worse than someone calling you a liar and/or not believing what’s happened to you.

    Kudos to all of you on here who are helping others.

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  13. Thank you Ozarkmom for your support and sharing your experiences. I remember being shocked finding out about the Reconstructionist movement fueling most of the homeschool leaders who were elevated to hero status at conferences, etc.

    It’s time to bring some balance to all of the rhetoric these guys have been pushing.

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  14. “As was the case with the Jews of Jesus’ day, these reconstructionists/dominionists are seeking a political salvation and a worldly kingdom. ”

    What did the Puritans call their colony? The “New Jerusalem”. They wanted to set up their own theocracy in the New World. Of course, they were going to do it right!

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  15. “But yeah…. this philosophy is practically identical to that which is found in Islam– “victory through numbers/ breeding more muslims”

    Bingo Loretta! The parallels to Islam are astonishing!

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  16. I read the article you referenced Julie Anne. Do you find it to be accurate factually?
    What about this quote: “Homeschooling families come from varied backgrounds—there are secular liberals as well as Christians, along with an increasing number of Muslims and African Americans—but researchers estimate that between two-thirds and three-fourths are fundamentalists.”

    I am finding it hard to believe that 2/3 to 3/4 of homeschoolers are fundamentalists.

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  17. Ironically, at the very time this event was recorded, the individual who was waging the most dedicated war against Doug Phillips’ family was…Doug Phillips.

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  18. Hey Mimi:

    I am finding it hard to believe that 2/3 to 3/4 of homeschoolers are fundamentalists.

    That’s a good question, Mimi. In our Navy travels and participation on homeschool forums, e-mail groups for years, my guess would be that Christians account for about 2/3-3/4th of homeschoolers. The distinction is the fundamentalist part and how does one define that word? The spectrum is very wide. The Doug Phillips “brand” of homeschoolers certainly would not be 2/3 of all homeschoolers. (no, I still haven’t read the article – just got home and this Mefferd thing is exploding.)

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  19. If you want ten billion mindless followers, it much is easier to groom children to be unquestioning adherants than to reprogram adults. The comment of the beautiful little girl at the end is disturbing. Motherhood is a beautiful dream for a girl her age, for any woman, and ideally a wonderful experience. But when she gets there, if she is a mother within this system, it won’t be a beautiful dream or a wonderful experience. It will be a life of failing to live up to impossible, unbiblical, tyrannical demands on her body, soul, mind, and time. Sooner or later, the plan falls apart. When it does, I hope there will be still be something left of the bright, happy little girl she once was. But I hope she will be wiser, able to question and find answers, not smiply holding onto and parroting back what she has been taught, or what the next person tries to teach her in its place.

    I’m afraid for her, because in general this system does not teach that kind of wisdom to daughters. Theirs is not to question authority, but to honor, obey, submit. And have lots and lots of babies, regardless of whether that’s ideal for them and their families.

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  20. Couldn’t help noticing that this little gem from Doug Wilson (as quoted by himself on his blog) matches up with your post, this video, and the little girl newscaster.

    “Mary overcame in the way women are called to conquer — by giving birth to conquerors, or by giving birth to daughters who will give birth to conquerors. And this explains how the Magnificat can have been composed by a woman and still be so gloriously militant. Godly child-bearing is militant. The seed of the woman has crushed the dragon’s head” (God Rest Ye Merry, p. 26).

    And on this Christmas I am glad to remember that it was the seed of the woman, not the seed of a human patriarch, who conquered the serpent, as foretold.

    I always thought the whole virgin birth thing was strange but now it just seems fitting. It wasn’t through patriarchy that our Savior– God incarnate in the body of a man– was brought into this world.
    Patriarchy didn’t accomplish it. God’s miraculous hand did it, using and the faith and willingness of a young woman. And in that Savior, men and women alike are redeemed from sin into the family and kingdom of God in Christ Jesus.

    Merry Christmas everybody!

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  21. ““Mary overcame in the way women are called to conquer — by giving birth to conquerors, or by giving birth to daughters who will give birth to conquerors. And this explains how the Magnificat can have been composed by a woman and still be so gloriously militant. Godly child-bearing is militant. The seed of the woman has crushed the dragon’s head” (God Rest Ye Merry, p. 26).

    – Militants, God’s army, battlelines, war, a supposed war on Christianity, a supposed war on Christmas even for goodness sake!

    Sounds like the Inquisition all over again.

    I wonder when these people will ever just come to accept the religiously and culturally pluralistic nature of this world and respect the concepts of religious liberty and freedom of choice.

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  22. “Our age is defined by warfare against the Christian family…”

    OH SHUT UP. No one is waging war on the Christian family. America is not persecuting Christians. I grow increasingly frustrated with the imagined martyrdom of Christian fundamentalists.

    As for “multi-generational goals”, real life doesn’t work that way. No matter how much Christian patriarchy fathers try to instill a “generational vision” in their children, some of those children will reject it and live their own lives. They’re entitled to be their own people, not their father’s foot soldiers. Unfortunately, Christian Patriarchy leaders seek to estrange followers from mainstream society in an attempt to keep children in the fold.

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  23. “As for “multi-generational goals”, real life doesn’t work that way. No matter how much Christian patriarchy fathers try to instill a “generational vision” in their children, some of those children will reject it and live their own lives.”

    – And some fathers stand in their own way by trying to keep their aging daughters at home forever ala Botkin style.

    “Unfortunately, Christian Patriarchy leaders seek to estrange followers from mainstream society in an attempt to keep children in the fold.”

    – These guys, and particularly Geoff Botkin, talk a lot about “taking dominion” of mainstream culture and “changing the culture”. And yet they don’t engage with “the culture” at all.

    So much for “changing” it – who the hell outside of maybe a few thousand religious nutters and their critics (like us) has ever even heard of “the Botkin family” or any of the home movies they made or Ben’s “soundtrack” album for that matter?

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  24. Re: “the battle between pagan culture and the Christian family culture”
    Just yesterday, in a comment to his Please Forgive Me post on the NCFIC blog, Scott T Brown wrote:
    “On whether I believe that rappers are “weak willed cowards who bow to the world:” Yes they are and so am I. We are all cowards in facing cultures that oppose the kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ. So Yes… but I also include myself. Let me add this. It is not always our personal cowardice that causes our compromises. We may compromise for many different reasons. For example, our cowardice may be as a result of lack of knowledge of scripture. Or, perhaps when we are saved we may sort of be born into cowardice. It could have been that we faithfully followed our spiritual fathers who were cowards at some level. So all cowardice is not exclusively related to being intentionally cowardly. Can we agree on this: It is cowardly not to confront evil in our cultures, but it does not mean that those who do not confront it are always doing it out of some sort of personal self aware cowardice?
    I would like to be clear that the men on the panel have no illusions about how cowardly, and compromising our own “grumpy old reformed,” “white,” mainstream culture is. Each of feels the same way about our own cultures, and we have taken many positions against elements of those cultures.”

    What the bleeding blazes? We can call fellow-Christians “weak willed cowards” because — so am I and my buddies, of course, we were born into it, totally depraved, doncha know, when it comes to the all-important culture war blah blah…
    Someone with insight into these guys and their culture warfare– analyze this horrid comment in more depth for me, please. Hot off the press of the heir apparent to the Doug as new captain of the patriarchy ship.

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  25. So Scott T Brown is quoted as writing, “It is cowardly not to confront evil in our cultures.”

    Well, Woo Hooo! Mr. Brown unwittingly acknowledges that our own Julie Anne is no coward!!

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  26. What the bleeding blazes? We can call fellow-Christians “weak willed cowards” because — so am I and my buddies, of course, we were born into it, totally depraved, doncha know, when it comes to the all-important culture war blah blah…
    Someone with insight into these guys and their culture warfare– analyze this horrid comment in more depth for me, please. Hot off the press of the heir apparent to the Doug as new captain of the patriarchy ship.

    Dave A A: They are consumed in their sin and forgot some very important verses that apply for all Believers:

    For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world–our faith. 1 John 5:4

    (And that’s from the ESV version approved by a lot of Reformed folks.)

    They made Jesus’ death on the cross meaningless by all the obsession of sin. Did Christ die on the cross for our sins or not?

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  27. Brown “Or, perhaps when we are saved we may sort of be born into cowardice.”
    Paul:’For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”’. Rom 8:15
    Approved ESV

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  28. @Maryl:

    This charming little girl who is playing the newscaster wouldn’t be allowed to be a real newscaster when she grows up.

    Little girl?
    You mean the future Quiverfull womb?
    Breeding living weapons for the Culture War?

    Like

  29. @LynetteD:

    Can someone tell me, because I didn’t see it, where is Jesus in all that? It sounds like some cheesy scifi movie about taking over a planet.

    Well, in Left Behind and other Christianese fiction, when a character “Says the Sinner’s Prayer”, they seem to turn into Praise-the-LOORD Pod People.

    Like Invasion of the Body Snatchers with a Christian coat of paint…

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  30. In a sense, this is kinda Mormanish, in their beliefs of polygamy. Lot’s and lots of children. In the VF way, it’s the same, but with one wife.

    And, it sort of reminds me of the movie Braveheart, where the King states that the problem with Scotland is that it is full of Scotts, and therefore, the King states, “if we can’t kick them out, we will breed them out.

    Ed

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  31. In a sense, this is kinda Mormanish, in their beliefs of polygamy. Lot’s and lots of children. In the VF way, it’s the same, but with one wife.

    If he was with this other woman for 10 years, Ed, it almost seems as if he was practicing polygamy – – maybe like FLDS?

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  32. J A — If he was with this other woman for 10 years, Ed, it almost seems as if he was practicing polygamy – – maybe like FLDS?

    I’ve seen a video of Beall doing the talking, while the alleged other woman sits next to her holding little Virginia. Just like Sister Wives. Of course, Beall may have been oblivious to what was going on in her own home — 8000 square feet, after all!

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  33. Patrice, I really don’t have a lot of information.

    I will say that the stance I have taken on this whole situation with regard to Driscoll’s alleged plagiarism, Janet exposing it, and Janet’s apology has not changed one iota.

    Like

  34. On Scott T Brown and Christian rappers: Could he be creating a diversion? He’d much rather take the rap at the moment for comments about rappers than for “How close were you to to Doug? What did you know, how long did you hide it from the public and why?”

    Like

  35. Why not just build 10 billion robots that look exactly like the Botkin ladies. Have a on and off switch that controls their ability to speak well scripted limes:

    Oh Daddy, Daddy you are my Lord and master.
    I hope I find an android that is as manly as you Daddy.
    What time do you want me to wake up daddy?
    Do you like my ball gown daddy ? It’s from the 1800s, so we had a hard time roller skating.

    Are we having a daddy daughter tea today daddy?

    Look at what I cooked today daddy.
    Look what I baked today daddy.
    Look at what I sewed today daddy.
    I’m a good girl daddy.
    All the other girls are worldly whores daddy because they wear jeans and show their knees to the whole world.

    How can I serve you today daddy ?

    Like

  36. All the other girls are worldly whores daddy because they wear jeans and show their knees to the whole world.

    How can I serve you today daddy ?

    Scott – I think I just gagged.

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  37. CA, Gary, and Retha– thanks for the thoughts on Brown’s rap. It probably is a diversion, since he’s got to be busy with lots of Vision Forum mop-up right now. Who else is running things there, if not him? When JA brings out her Scott Brown post, I’ll revisit his very odd rapology.

    Like

  38. @CindyK….I guess Mr. Botkin ain’t doin’ so well on his 200 year plan since neither of his stunning young-but-growing-older daughters have married….

    Like

  39. I’m new here – been reading for quite awhile, though. I have just a general thought/comment on the DP situation. I’m quite familiar with the DP “community”. We took a walk in that world, saw stuff that scared us, looked at our precious, unique children and ran as far and fast the other way as we could. After our sojourn, I began to wonder about certain things:

    1. Why would a Christian man, who is interested in bringing about a more Christian
    nation want to discourage (and shame) half of the Christian voting population
    (the women) from voting? Whose purpose does it serve? The women on the
    other side of the aisle are certainly going to continue to vote – why discourage
    half of “your side” from voting?

    2. Why would a Christian man, who is interested in furthering the cause of Christian
    homeschooling rail against/demonize the educating of women – the very people
    who will be teaching the next generation? Why deny them not only college, but
    also call into question the “need/wisdom” of teaching things like higher math and
    science to young women…who will be later (supposedly) teaching the next
    generation of….”godly” men? How does that serve “the cause”?

    3. Why deny the young men a college education? Why keep them ignorant and
    most likely in a state of poverty due to their lack of education? And then tell them
    to marry young and have unlimited children?

    4. Yes…. WHY?

    5. The conclusion that I have come to is that NONE of the above stances help
    to further the best interests of the homeschooling or Christian community. In
    fact, they are stances that virtually ensure that a new Christian “underclass” will
    be created- a group of economically poor, undereducated, stressed-by-too-many-
    children people who will have no power. They will have no economic power, no voice, and no ability to change either their own lives or to influence others around them. But they will be easily “lead”. Easily “represented”. Easily “awed” but others who *are* educated, wealthy, and *successful*. How very convenient.

    6. If I had tried, I could not have formulated a better plan to ensure that homeschooling fails, that the “Christian” life presented would be a miserable existence ( and thus unattractive to the offspring raised this way), and that the next generation of conservative Christians would have
    their voices effectively….silenced.

    7. Somehow, the Trojan horse comes to mind.

    Like

  40. Excellent comment, just a shadow!

    It’s so important to talk about this – – to identify these things oddities because there are many reading who are wondering “what is so wrong with what I’ve been doing – – I know something is not quite right, but I can’t quite identify it.”

    When you’ve been in a system for a long period of time, what may seem off to those outside the community seems pretty normal to those inside.

    Like

  41. Aha!! Just a Shadow, you have just hit the nail on the head!
    I have been wondering about this ever since I read all too many comments on blogs put up by conservative Christian women who were saying they “had to” stop voting.
    Say what??
    But then , my own grandmother voted in the first election where women were allowed to vote. And stayed around afterwards, until the polls closed, providing cover for other women who had to make their way through a mob of “concerned conservative Christian” men–and women–who were pelting them with garbage for “forgetting their place”. (My grandfather was at home, on his knees in prayer for the safety of all the women who were risking their safety to vote).
    Funny how the same old wooden horse keeps rising out of its grave to seeking prey upon whomever he may destroy……

    Like

  42. PS: My grandparents were devout Christians– and (very) conservative ones. They managed to detect the snares of the enemy’s “horses”, & fought for the freedom that is found in Jesus Christ–and in their country.
    Oh, for more like them!!

    Like

  43. Zooey111 –

    Yes, who needs enemies of biblical causes when you have “friends” telling you stop voting altogether? Or perhaps the enemies and “friends” are one in the same? It’s just all too convenient. What is outrageous to me is that thousands of Christians ( grown ones, mind you) swallowed that line and stayed home from the polls. I know MANY of them personally.

    I am so very thankful that God gave me grace to stay on my knees during our walk through *that world*. I remember it well -, there was one moment of crystal clarity, one moment where I saw the group’s mask fall away and saw what was underneath. One moment that the lightening bolt hit me and I grabbed my kids (metaphorically), started running the other way, and kept running until I was sure we were safe.

    Thank God for your grandparents and people like them. Would that we had more like that in Christian circles today.

    God cares about more than the plumbing we were born with, I am sure. There are too many women of the Bible that testify to this.

    Jesus Himself testifies of this. He was the original “anti-patriarch”. Think of the question posed to him of the (hypothetical) woman who was married to 7 brothers who died in succession. The questioners basically wanted to know who the woman “belonged to”. He brings them up short, telling them they have it all wrong, and that it is not this way in heaven. In other words, the woman didn’t belong to ANY MAN in heaven. Scandalous thought in that world. Still a scandalous thought in Patriarchy world – why, of course, she’s *got* to belong to SOMEONE – either her father or her husband! She *can’t* just be viewed as a child of God.

    Sorry for the long comment. I think I am experiencing some catharsis.

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  44. Sorry for the long comment. I think I am experiencing some catharsis.

    Oh, please don’t be sorry. That’s what this place is for.

    In other words, the woman didn’t belong to ANY MAN in heaven. Scandalous thought in that world. Still a scandalous thought in Patriarchy world – why, of course, she’s *got* to belong to SOMEONE – either her father or her husband! She *can’t* just be viewed as a child of God.

    Wow – – that is powerful. I’m so glad you had your catharsis publicly and on my blog. This woman needed to read that comment!!

    Like

  45. Anonymous2, I’m reading the 13 Rules, and I see especially this one: “Ignore the [sociopathic claim] that goes, ‘You are just like me.’ You are not.” This hit home hard, because much wickedness has been excused among Christian leaders because “we are all hypocrites.” As I’ve written elsewhere, unless we’re hypocrites ourselves, we will cry out against such sins as Jesus and others did. All sins are not equal: http://www.heresthejoy.com/2012/08/all-sins-are-not-equal/

    Like

  46. Pingback: Christian Patriarchy Group: God Demands You Marry and Have Babies to Defeat Paganism and Satan. Singles and the Childless Worthless | Christian Pundit

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