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Doug Phillips, founder of Vision Forum, the man who preached and taught men how to be godly fathers and husbands and how to have godly families, stumbled hard when he admitted that he had dishonored his marriage vows by having a physical relationship with a woman who was not his wife.
This disturbing news sent shock waves in the Christian community, but especially though the homeschool communities across the States and perhaps the world.
What did this man teach? How was he able to fall so far – and for so long? What has been the fruit of his teachings? Why are we starting to hear from young adults and parents about “system failures” in their own families. The perfect family image that Doug Phillips presented has not always produced the good fruit he advertised. Many families are breaking apart. Why is that?
In the article, In the Wake of the Doug Phillips Affair, a Mother Grieves and Seeks Our Prayers, we read the tragic story of a mother of 10 who followed these teachings and her family has fallen apart. In the comments, others shared their stories and heartache of a system failure.
One of the key components of the teachings of Phillips had to do with fathers being heads or priests of the home. At Vision Forum website, you can find an MP3 available for $15, in which you can listen to Doug Phillips narrate the entire volume of poems. Hurry now before the day after Thanksgiving rush.
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Let’s take a look at one of the poems included in the MP3, written by Doug Phillips.
More noble than the valiant deeds of shining knights of yore,
More powerful than earthly plights that make the rich man poor,
More kingly than a royal throne or a lion with his pride,
Is he whose babes sleep well at night sure Daddy will provide.
There is a spirit in this land and Jezebel’s her name.
She’s calling you to leave your home for power, fun, and fame.
She wants your wife, your children too — she’ll never compromise,
Until your house is torn in two by listening to her lies.
The rest of ht poem can be found here: The Patriarch
~Douglas W. Phillips
For those of us who heard Doug Phillips speak, this is par for the course. I’m curious to know how others outside of homeschool circles would view this particular patriarchal poem – especially those who may not have had exposure to patriarchal teachings. How does it line up with Scripture? Or does it?
- In the Wake of the Doug Phillips Affair, a Mother Grieves and Seeks Our Prayers (spiritualsoundingboard.com)
- Doug Philips Resigns from Office of President at Vision Forum, Discontinues Speaking Engagements (spiritualsoundingboard.com)
- Supporting Survivors of Doug Phillips’ Apostasy (spiritualsoundingboard.com)
- Doug Phillips: His Power and Control Using “Godly” Patriarchy (spiritualsoundingboard.com)
- A Closer Look at Doug Phillips’ Clarification Statement (spiritualsoundingboard.com)
74 thoughts on “Doug Phillips: The Patriarch and His Personal Failure”
It sounds like he’s been living his life in fantasy land.
Oh my. If you know the teachings of Doug Phillips, this is almost laughably stereotypical.
The Jezebel spirit, according to the poem, wants to call you away from your home? The Bible talks of no Jezebel spirit. It talks of two real Jezebels. The first worshipped Baal (a god whose name also mean “master” “husband” or “owner” – a name that combines husband-ship with being in charge!) and gave her husband the vineyard he wanted (pleased a husband, achieved his desires) by plotting to kill the first owner.
The second Jezebel told men to get the idol-offered meat they want and be sexually immoral with her – an absolutely man-pleasing message.
The Jezebels in the Bible was man (as in adult male, not as in human) pleasers and are never mentioned in relation to homes – wrecking or keeping them. And they were not spirits!
And the “Your wife is your helpmeet, my friend, and not another man’s” is utterly crazy if you know the meaning of “helpmeet.”
Like this: “Your wife is your equal, made for the same tasks God made you and all of humanity, male and female, for. She is not another man’s equal, made for the same tasks God made that man and you and her and all of humanity, male and female, for.”
1. It’s doggerel, not worthy to be called poetry.
2. It’s non-scriptural:
a) Jezebel in the Bible did not call Ahab to leave his home or neglect his family responsibilities. She incited and fed Ahab’s selfish moodiness and egged him into authorizing fraud and murder. So Phillip’s concept of Jezebel has zero relationship to the Bible.
b) “look only into their sweet eyes to find your ministry” — apart from the sickening meaning this can imply in the emotionally incestuous hothouse created by the Patriocentricity (girls taught to be emotionally incestuous with fathers) this is utterly unbiblical. Never does the Bible tell men to find their ‘ministry’ in the eyes of their offspring. Sure, if they have kids they are to be caring fathers, but ‘finding your ministry’ in fatherhood (or motherhood) is blowing up the bubble of family idolatry way out of proportion. Some fathers (and mothers) may find that the main work in their lives is to care for their kids (e.g. a parent of a disabled child) but for most parents it’s just a season and even then may not be the entire focus of their work for that period in their lives. The NT has lots to say about how we are to put family secondary in relation to God, and be prepared to let family ties go in order to follow Christ.
3. Why is this garbage still being sold on their website(s)? I thought they were winding up VF. That should mean they cease trading forthwith.
That’s enough. I could say heaps more, but I’m off to bed.
I love that second verse, I can’t stop laughing. I guess he just missed that portion of the show where she comes wrapped in a cloak emblazoned with “Biblical Patriarchy”.
Proverbs 31:24 Speaks of a woman going outside of the home for trade.
“She makes linen garments and sells them,
And supplies sashes for the merchants.”
Where are the scriptures to support what he teaches?
“More kingly than a . . . a lion with his pride,”
This may be more revealing more about his outlook than Phillips intended. Setting aside the question whether lion prides are patriarchal or matriarchal, “A pride of lions consists of related females and offspring and a small number of adult males.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion. The wikipedia article indicates that the number of breeding males in a pride is generally limited to one or two, with young males being excluded as they reach maturity. This is all quite reminiscent of an article I recall having read about polygamous FLDS communities.
When I first suggested that the natural direction of “Biblical” patriarchy was toward polygamy, the notion seemed to me to be a bit over the top, at least as a general rule. I now see that others are suggesting the same thing. Certainly Phillips’ allusion to a lion’s pride is corroborative of his mindset, if only as an artifact of where his imagination tends to lead him. “But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart. . .” (Matthew 15:18a, ESV)
But it gets worse. the wikipedia article referenced above doesn’t specifically address the issue, but it certainly appears that a pride’s male(s) will breed their own female offspring. I have observed first hand evidence of emotionally incestuous attachment between father and daughter in a family I know to have been influenced by Phillips’ teaching.
It is all just sick, sick, sick.
Substitute “God” for “Daddy” and it works a bit better.
I found the whole poem posted in this article http://jensgems.wordpress.com/2007/06/25/doug-phillips-refuses-to-hire-women-at-vision-forum/ Pretty interesting article too.
I took on my performance poet alter-ego persona for a moment and did a declamation recitation of *The Patriarch* aloud … but in about double-speed plus rappin’ rhythm — a bit faster than the pace of the mega-pop hit, “What does the Fox Say?” — and U NO, ‘t workz.
[Of course, neither speed nor syncopation negated the torturosity of the content and didn’t deepen the meaning.]
Torturosity, indeed. Is that a word? It works for me. Yes, that’s about the only way to get through that poem.
What I find ultra creepy is the complete arrogance and exaltation that Phillips does about fathers. He puts them in a god-like status and expects everyone to follow suit. That is why children and wives in this environment are expected to “serve” any patriarch, not just their own.
And sisters also practice by treating their brothers as patriarchs-in-waiting.
I have a friend who told me that she expected her daughters to serve their older brother because it would be good practice for them once they got married. So, consequently, many boys take on that arrogance at an early age.
I’m curious–why is Jezebel associated with anti-patriarchy and sexual temptation? From what I remember in the scriptures, her main transgression was leading Ahab and Israel into idolatry. Is it because she was somewhat domineering?
My grandmother used to call me Jezebel when I was a child. I pretty much react badly to this kind of crap. At this point I assume anyone who goes around talking about a Jezebel spirit or ranting against Jezebel women is a spiritual abuser.
It’s ridiculous and prideful. I’d laugh except I know people who have bought into this pack of lies, and my heart hurts for their children.
The poem leaves me with a big YUK! He sounds like a man who has been living a delusional life for quite some time. He was just able to cloak it all in ‘biblical’ language and sell it.
What bothers me even more is his lack of emotion regarding his wife. She is his beloved bride, along with other descriptors, but I never get the sense that she is a gifted person made in the image of God, Beall. It’s as if he owns her and he is more sorry for breaking his vows (before God) than he is sorry for the way he has treated Beall. He never even uses her name, much less the names God, Jesus, and the Spirit.
Am I seeing this correct? He capitalizes daddy when referring to human fathers?
Bridget – that’s a good observation.
You know, I’m beginning to think the same thing. I have a list of names people call me when I expose spiritual abuse and Jezebel is probably the #1 name. My friend, Alex Grenier, who is the middle of a lawsuit brought on by his father/pastor Bob Grenier noticed this and has nicknamed me Jezzy 🙂 Gotta have some fun with this craziness!
“There is a spirit in this land and Jezebel’s her name.”
That is a direct rip-off of the late 80s/early 90s Bojangles chicken franchise commercials:
There was a Cajun cook and Bojangles was his name.
That, my friends, is plagiarism. Please get me Janet Mefferd on Line 1 — stat.
interesting response from Peter Bradrick over at Jen’s blog……..
Here is the link to Peter’s Bradrick statement: http://jensgems.wordpress.com/2013/11/25/doug-phillips-and-blissful-ignorance/#comment-19512 Read down further where there is another statement.
You know, all the extra rules and layer upon layer of protections and heart-guardings and courtship and all the patriarchy stuff was supposed to prevent such an affair from happening. But there’s another side to the story…
“If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.” Colossians 2:20-23 (NASV via Bible Gateway)
Self-made religion? No value against fleshly indulgence? Hmmmm. Maybe there’s a lesson here.
Powerful, powerful, stevescottpew!
Ok, Julie Anne, there should seriously be a warning or something before that “poem.” Stupidity of content and narcissistic meaning aside, aesthetically and structurally this poem is to western literature what Plan 9 from outer space was to great science fiction epic films. I. Am. In. Literary. Pain. Misery. And. Agony. I seriously wish I could unread that atrocity!
Oh, please, somebody with an English degree tear this poem apart. It won’t really be like clubbing a defenseless baby seal because this poem is actually crying out for someone to put it out of its miserable existence.
Also, I wonder if this poem was written after the affair started, and if Phillips can even see the weirdness in how he blames the woman for decieving the man when all his patriarchal melarky is based on the proposition that we women are so innately gullible that we must have a man with his inborn manly wisdom to teach us and protect us from this big bad world and from bad men who want to seduce us and steal our purity.
The VF source recommends these poems because the quality of twentieth century literature just isn’t up to standards. But Mr Phillips Poems for Patriarchs “are neither fluffy nor frilly, foppish nor foolish, but virile and often sage, both as to their composition and character.”
Virile and sage?
Oh, my guts are hurting from laughing so hard.
That poem is right out of Don Quixote
So later on in the poem it says:
Your wife is your helpmeet, my friend, and not another man’s,
So care for her and keep her far from Mistress Jezi’s plans.
So we finally know the name of the woman with whom he was having an affair?
I tell ya, this whole thing is scaring me into panic attacks. I’ve had to deal with enough abuse and it’s causing flashbacks due to longstanding PTSD. It’s started affecting me physically, reading all the comments from Chalcedon and those from the patriarchal movement.
“waitingforthetrumpet2 on November 27, 2013 at 4:45 PM
I tell ya, this whole thing is scaring me into panic attacks. I’ve had to deal with enough abuse and it’s causing flashbacks due to longstanding PTSD. It’s started affecting me physically.”
Please hang in there, my friend.
You are not alone.
How can we help you?
I need to take a break and step away from my computer for awhile. It’s really affecting me at the moment, physically. I don’t know why, but it is.
P.s. waiting for the trumpet,
You said some very strong and insightful things over on the comments with Martin Selbride. I want to thank you for that again,
I cracked a lot of jokes over there with pink bunny hats and stuff but this far out from my experiences joking is still a critical survival tool for me. Underneath, this stuff really isn’t a laughing matter, though. When I first discovered this site, the nightmares came back, I was there again, it was 20 years ago, I had to figure out recovery on my own it was so long ago. But it does get better
The strength and wisdom that you and others here have shared have made me realize after all these years that I am not alone. That those people are not going to get away with fooling everybody all the time. They don’t own us anymore. They can’t keep us silent anymore. Jesus is raising up a band of survivors and friends.
I am praying for you. I wish I knew what to say to help. I do believe you and I believe in you.
What if they win? What happens then? I’m terrified.
Take a break for a while. That’s what I have to do sometimes. And then . . . we keep speaking up as long as we’re able. More people are taking notice. You are among friends here.
Have a peaceful day tomorrow.
“waitingforthetrumpet2 on November 27, 2013 at 5:18 PM
What if they win? What happens then? I’m terrified.”
You are “waiting for the trumpet.”
We know who is going to win! We know that Jesus has promised to redeem his church, not hand ot over to them and their glory! He keeps his promises. Includig the ones about what happens to false prophets and the like. They are messing with God’s people. I pity them( they have touched the apple of God’s eye. This is not going to end well for them. Just look at how they are all throwing Phillips under the bus now.
As for the short run, are you in need of any immediate help?
They don’t own you.
If you don’t feel it is wise to share anything personal about yout present situation on this thread, and you to speak to someone, email Julie Anne privately. I’m sure she can put you in touch with someone who can help you.
Also, been there is right. I have to take breaks too and remind myself that this
stuff isn’t all there is, put it in a different perspective, get my feet under me, play with my dogs, go for a walk,
talk about something else entirely to some people who have never even heard of this kind of stuff. Don’t worry, we’ll hold their feet to the fire till you get back. Rest is good.
It’s also important not to feel alone, too. Even if you need a break, know that we are praying for you.
Hardly worthy of the title “poetry.” Yes, it rhymes. Lost me after the first stanza.
“Treating older brothers like patriarchs in waiting”. Icky ! That makes my skin crawl.
In regard to the word Jezabel, that’s the christianized form of calling a woman the B Word. Since the word Jezabel is in the bible people think it’s an acceptable meat cleaver to hurl.
“ColleenInWis on November 27, 2013 at 8:56 AM
I’m curious–why is Jezebel associated with anti-patriarchy and sexual temptation? From what I remember in the scriptures, her main transgression was leading Ahab and Israel into idolatry. Is it because she was somewhat domineering?”
A long-time puzzle to me as well. My best guess– maybe because her response to jehu’s arrival was to put on some eye makeup, do her hair, and talk to him through the window. You know, try to use those feminine wiles! Then there’s the (suspiciously familiar) theory that of course it was jezebel who led ahab astray from God with those same feminine wiles, just like the jezebel in the poem. Well, that whole blame the wily woman for fooling me thing ain’t nothing new. Adam started that, and it was a lie when he said it, too.
But … considering Jezebel helped seduce God’s people away from God and into heresy and idolatry, I’m not so sure she isn’t more properly representative of the patriarchists themselves than to the archetypal female seductress of an otherwise perfect man. When it comes to seductresses, other Bible women were a lot better at it, anyway. Delilah. Tamar (the first one). The list goes on. So, I dunno why Jezebel got to be known for that.
“Sergius Martin-George on November 27, 2013 at 10:12 AM
That is a direct rip-off of the late 80s/early 90s Bojangles chicken franchise commercials: ….
That, my friends, is plagiarism. Please get me Janet Mefferd on Line 1 — stat.”
I tried, Sergius, but she hung up on me.
Well, after I stopped talking to her.
New post over at Jen’s blog :
Vision Forum Inc. to Permanently Close December 31
The dominionist rabbit hole runs deep, innit?
Following links provided by Julie Anne and her commenters at this site such as this one, http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2008/12/who-is-geoffrey-botkin-vision-forum.html I’ve come to learn that one of the Botkin sons plans to become prime minister of New Zealand in his mid to late 50s.
According to one of the blogs I was directed to from here, when Papa Botkin gave his “200 year plan” seminar at a Vision Forum retreat, he revealed the outline for the timeline and prep work that his son would have to follow in order to reach that goal. I’m not sure if the aspiring prime minister is David or the other, older, more low profile older son who never married (as of yet) despite being well into his 30s. However on the link above, as well as at the origin of the comment (provided in the link below) David Boktin is mentioned along with his father in a comment from some concerned New Zealand citizen about the Americans that have come to destroy their country;
“Larry, what I share with you, I do not want to be opened to the New Zealand media. I am in a difficult to impossible situation and it would damage me further. But, I must share with you and hope that I can trust you – as having been a victim of this man and his cohorts.
“This man, Jim McCotter, has destroyed the lives and livelihoods of so many people here, (one work mate committed suicide this year), homes have been thrown into dissent, professional lives have been damaged, local businesses have been ‘hood winked’ – under the banner of Jim McCotter’s christianity, with Roland Ripamonti as his ‘right hand man’. These are men who claim to be christians and doing things as per christianity. Their hands are stained with blood.McCotter and his henchmen have the audacity to claim this country and our city as their own and yet talk of getting rid of our government, etc. They talk of destroying certain businesses and engineering the destruction of people’s lives.
“Do they work for or are they being funded by a christian organisation? There is obviously a lot of cash in-volved as these men and their families stay in expensive hotels and recently McCotter has bought a very expen-sive home in Christchurch.
“They live the lives of the very wealthy, and talk in terms of money being the great reward.
“Please, who are the people behind them?
“The men who are involved locally are; Jim McCotter (American), Roland Ripamonti (American Italian) and his 15 year old son, Andrew and wife Marizia, Geoff Botkin (American) and his son, David, Louis de Beer (South African), Shannon Hunt (McCotter’s daughter), Jonathon Hunt (English)(Shannon’s husband), Simon Hunt (Jona-thon Hunt’s brother and his wife), Holly LeFors (American).
So basically a big part of Geoffrey Botkin’s 200 year plan is the takeover of New Zealand!
Wow, thanks for that, Monique.
waitingforthetrumpet2: Please do whatever you have to do to protect yourself. I understand completely why some are triggered by this nonsense. You are coming head to head with evil.
When I read what you wrote here, I was hooping and hollering because you have nailed it:
While you are dealing with the emotional aspects of triggers and dealing with PTSD, your words are exposing truth and may save many families. Your words are powerful and you need to know that I’m getting thousands of people searching Phillips and landing on my blog. We will have no way of knowing how many will read your words and for some, the light will finally click for them. No, it does not take away your pain, but I wanted to let you know in a real way what is happening here. I am taking all of this very seriously and I thank you so much for sharing your knowledge on this atrocity that has infiltrated the Homeschool Movement.
If you need to talk, please contact me: spirituals@gmail dot com
Big hugs to you!
This stuff is very serious, yet it’s also very important to laugh and that pink bunny hats was a good outlet. With all of the spiritual abuse I deal with on a daily basis, I have a team of people I can call at any time to process whatever I’m struggling with (another reason why we got the SSB forum going). This stuff has taken a toll on me, but I know the destruction it has had on my family and the necessity of exposing it. I am still not sleeping right – 5-7 hrs p/night when pre-lawsuit, I required 8 hrs. Today, I had the best nap I’ve had in a few years. I’m just sharing this so you all know that I am not exempt from the effects of this stuff and to confirm that it is a process.
Amen!!! I’ve greatly appreciated your contributions, Free At Last.
Thank you, Free At Last, BeenThereDoneThat and Julie Anne, for your kindness, patience, prayers and friendship. I’m ok now. Yes, I AM waiting for the trumpet. Every night, including tonight (even when it’s freezing outside), I go outside and stand on the front porch of my apartment building and look up into the night sky, marveling at the stars, and I ask Him if tonight will be the night. Oh how I long to go Home!
teachings of Phillips had to do with fathers being heads or priests of the home
The Bible says that all believers are priests, not just husbands.
Jesus is the lone High Priest, but all believers are priests. I do not know why patriarchal, gender comp guys insist on maintaining the “husband is the priest of the home” stuff.
It reminds me of poems my dad told me when he was a kid. I found them funny.
I can’t remember all of them, or all the words, but one went something like this (attention Headless Unicorn Guy – I figure he might dig this, if he visits this page):
“In the days of old, when knights were bold,
and toilet paper had not been invented,
men wiped their …es on prickly pears
those tough sons of ……s”
In Christinaity, there are all kinds of flavors. All kinds of outlooks and approaches exist, and some are better than others. Sometimes they’re just different. But in the case of these strange movements, people seem glued to the Old Testament. They seem incapable of embracing Christianity on New Testament terms.
Waitingforthetrumpet2, I hope you are ok today. When I have flashbacks, I often have a day afterwards that feels somewhat like being at the end of a flu: dragged out, a little witless, achy all over. If this is the case for you, I hope your Thanksgiving Day is spent with kind low-key people. If not, I recommend getting out early and taking good care of yourself. My thoughts go with you
Waiting for the Trumpet, please contact me through Julie Anne if you’d like to connect with someone who has been through what you are describing. How well I know those panic attacks and a multitude of other stress-induced illnesses. I have found hope and strength in Christ through the various trials and His Grace is sufficient in all things. Would love to share what the Lord has done in my own life because I chose to leave the confines of a wrong belief system. He has given me courage and boldness in speaking truth and I wholly trust Him as I walk by faith despite the constant resistance and antagonism. God is good and His mercies are new every morning!
Beenthere, that’s the best day after description I’ve heard!
“waitingforthetrumpet2 on November 27, 2013 at 9:27 PM
Thank you, Free At Last, BeenThereDoneThat and Julie Anne, for your kindness, patience, prayers and friendship. I’m ok now. Yes, I AM waiting for the trumpet. Every night, including tonight (even when it’s freezing outside), I go outside and stand on the front porch of my apartment building and look up into the night sky, marveling at the stars, and I ask Him if tonight will be the night. Oh how I long to go Home!”
Waiting, I just wish I could be there right now to put my arms around you as a sister and tell you that you are beautiful to God. Your life here and now does matter very much to him and He is with you. One day, I promise, you will be glad you waited for him. There will come a day when you can look back and see that he is even now using you to encourage others.
Because of what you have been through, you will find in the process of survival and recovery that you have developed incredible strength and compassion because you passed through this fire — and because of that incredible strength and compassion you will be the one person who can do what God has for you to do. You might not see that now in this season of recovery, but it won’t always feel like this. Jesus is victor, and in him you won’t just survive, you will find that there really is victory in Him.
Look at Julie Anne, if she hadn’t been through hell, she wouldn’t have this blog and we wouldn’t be here. But now she has a unique credibility, a voice, and a ministry. Hurting people are discovering they are not alone and that they can make it. The truth is spoken onto computer screens around the world, and folks are waking up to what is being done behind the authoritarian curtains of patriarchy and the like. For you, it might not be a blog, it might be another person who needs rescuing, I don’t know, but one day, you’ll see, what seems like devastation and agony now will turn out to be a source of strength and ministry.
It sounds trite when it’s typed out here, but God does use our sufferings. And there is joy too. It won’t always hurt this bad. Hang in there.
I just wish I could turn back the clock. I want my little boy back the way he was, when he was taken from me when he was 5. I want to teach him how to ride a bike. I want to witness his first lost tooth. I want to hold him in my arms. I want to undo the damage that was done to my daughter because of false accusations hurled at her when she was only 8, and I want to erase the stigma attached to her name and her psyche because she was falsely accused of rape and sodomy of my son, in order for my son’s dad to use as grounds to steal my son away from me. I want to turn back the clock to a time before any of this ever happened, and then run away with my kids, somewhere where my son’s dad wouldn’t find us. I want my life back, and I want my kids’ lives returned to me.
What heartache. I wish I could take it away for you.
Everything I try to type just sounds so lame in light of what you just shared. That’s a lot of pain to carry.
Time has not lessened the pain much. It’s been 20 years since he’s been gone. He’s now a man, but has grown up without me. I miss him and want him back, returned to me the same way he was when he was taken from me. I know that can never happen, though. PTSD, flashbacks and depression are very real.
Folks, I would like to ask that those of us who have the strength to pray to please lift our precious sister, waitingforthetrumpet2 to the throne of God.
Holidays are often very difficult times as we encounter painful family issues head on.
WFTT2: I am praying that God will show you His peace in a very special way today and will sustain you through the encouragement and prayers of strangers who care. Big hugs to you, friend!
<<<< in tears here.
I have another thought for you, WFTT2, while you are having these challenges with PTSD, please feel free to “hang” out on another thread.
This topic has been triggering for others as well and maybe conversing at a place that feels more safe will be helpful – – especially if the hot subject comes up again. You can jump in on the Thanksgiving thread 🙂 Don’t worry if it’s a change of subjects – – we do that all the time.
Edited to add: Oopsy – never mind the above. When I am reading the comments, I’m doing it “behind the scenes” and WordPress does not label the title of the thread, so I thought you were still commenting in the Reconstruction thread. This is a perfect place.
No, I’m deliberately avoiding the Reconstruction thread, for obvious reasons. My mom and brother will be coming over in about 3 hours, for Thanksgiving dinner. She’s bringing the food. I baked brownies. My daughter and her family are visiting her mother-in-law for Thanksgiving. My son and his wife are in NY, so I don’t know what they will be doing for the holiday.
Ok, good! I hope you have a lovely day with your mom and brother.
Praying for you waitingforthetrumpet your story just brought tears to my eyes.
Praying for you.
The holidays are such a trying time.
We should be full of joy- and many are grieving.
My little boy of college age is home for just a few days and I am already grieving his departure.
May his peace be with you and anyone depressed during this holiday season.
” I want to undo the damage that was done to my daughter because of false accusations hurled at her when she was only 8, and I want to erase the stigma attached to her name and her psyche because she was falsely accused of rape and sodomy of my son, in order for my son’s dad to use as grounds to steal my son away from me.”
What?!?! A father accused his own 8 year old little girl of “rape and sodomy”?!?!
What he a member of the patriarchy cult? Wow. Their hatred for females runs all the way to tiny little girls. Disgusting.
Different fathers. I was divorced from my daughter’s father years before I met my son’s father.
WFTT2: Praying for you as well. May you feel and experience God’s love and have peace. I don’t always post when I’m praying for someone, but I try to always lift up those who post their struggles here. I’ll bet there are lots more praying for you too that just haven’t posted 🙂
I have been following the Doug Phillips story closely although I have no connection to the patriarchy movement. I’m fascinated by Doug’s narcissism and the countless hours of video he’s posted of himself talking nonsense–super creepy! Even for someone like me with limited knowledge, it only took a few clicks of the mouse to determine who the sexual abuse victim is in this case. I became interested in the patriarchy movement after seeing the Duggar family on TV and learning about Bill Gothard, whom I consider a cult leader. I hope this story gets more attention by the mainstream media. I fear for the women involved and my heart goes out to them. I will continue to tune in and give kudos to the excellent detective work being done by Julie Anne, TW, and Jen of “Jen’s Gems”. BTW, does anyone know if Katie Botkin (niece to Geoff Botkin) is the owner of the “rethinkingvisionforum” blog? I’m a fan of her personal blog and noticed that the formats are almost identical.
Phillips’ poem was self-serving purple prose … and VERY ironic in light of his misconduct.
I have no experience with the patriarchy movement (praise God!). I only learned about it a few months ago, through a friend, and have been doing a little reading about it. You asked how the poem sounds to someone outside the movement – it sounds completely nutty. It boggles the mind that people believe and follow this stuff. My simple assessment as an outsider is that it’s a form of idolatry – “fatherhood” or “the father” become the object of worship.
That’s not poetry. That’s……
Well. Not going to say what I think it is.
But– you may step in it if you walk immediately south of a northbound horse.
LOL, zooey111 🙂
“Different fathers. I was divorced from my daughter’s father years before I met my son’s father.”
Oh I see. Did he ever show love for your daughter? Did he ever accept her as his own (or at least act like it?)
No, he didn’t. I never married him. He was already married to someone else (we were “engaged”, but he “forgot to tell me” he was already married). She couldn’t conceive, so they took my son so they could raise them as their own.
“No, he didn’t. I never married him. He was already married to someone else (we were “engaged”, but he “forgot to tell me” he was already married). She couldn’t conceive, so they took my son so they could raise them as their own.”
– Hold on. He impregnated you without telling you that he was already married, and once you gave birth to his son, he fought in court to gain sole custody rights?
Was that his plan all along or was he planning to bring you home to live as his “second wife” in co-relationship with his first, i.e. polygyny?