Jordan “J.D.” Hall Grumps about Women Who Shouldn’t Attend Shepherds’ Conference

Shepherds’ Conference, J.D. Hall, Women, Church #ShepCon #ShepCon2016, John Mac Arthur, Pulpit and Pen, Bunker


 

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This week quite a few pastors and men have been at the Shepherds’ Conference at John Mac Arthur’s digs in California. Traditionally, women are not allowed to attend, yet evidently, women did attend at least one day per Pastor J.D. Hall‘s account quoted in his private Facebook group, Pulpit Bunker :

 

JD Hall, Jordan Hall, Pulpit and Pen, women, misogyny, male headship

The quote reads:

Is it just me or was #ShepCon infiltrated by an inordinate number of ladies in the last day or so? I can’t find a seat in the spill-over room, but I’m counting close to 200 wives in there. Which is interesting, because I don’t think they’re supposed to come, or so I thought. I know I seem like a grump, but when there’s [sic] hundreds of seats filled by people who technically shouldn’t be there and we can’t get in, it’s kinda “grrr.”


I’m trying to think of why J.D., or any man for that matter, would be upset that his wife would want to grow spiritually, and would hinder her from attending or complain about other women attending. Yet, J.D. Hall seems to think women attending is wrong because, “I don’t think they’re supposed to come.”  

Who said they are not supposed to come?  And why?  Is that Biblical?  Seems like J.D. Hall is trying to stick with man-made traditions and John Mac Arthur’s Shepherds’ Conference letter of the law. The Bible talks about following man-made traditions:

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.  Colossians 2:8

I do not see a precedent of men-only meetings in the Bible.

Snark alert: Good for you for complaining, J.D., we wouldn’t want any other woman to be more spiritual than you. I hope you booted some lady out of her seat and made her stand for the inconvenience. And while you’re at it, I hope you asked for a partial refund. Shame on them, grrrrr!

 

 

117 comments on “Jordan “J.D.” Hall Grumps about Women Who Shouldn’t Attend Shepherds’ Conference

  1. ahh yes the “shepherds’ conference”.

    They may as well just call it to “charlatans’ conference”.

    Jesus taught us to speak truth, after all.

    JD is the type of guy who speaks the loudest but has nothing important worth listening to. He’s in my ‘Kanye basket’.

    Embarrassing and not in the slightest bit relevant.

    I’m eating toast at the moment and it’s delicious.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Over the years I have come to be pretty uncomfortable with “men’s conferences” and, frankly, “women’s conferences” also. I am not claiming that such activities are clearly sinful and thus should never happen. I suppose someone did some good through these avenues sometime or another. But the idea of “ok guys, let’s all be sure and get ourselves down to the Men Must be Men for Christ retreat this week and learn how to be men and husbands and fathers and leaders…..”. The usual show is to bring in some celebrity figure as a hyped up hyper speaker in order to get all these guys renewed. And quite often, if not overtly then covertly, the teaching elevates men and places the women on a lower plane in these guys’ minds.

    So, the shepherds’ conference. Even if (as is the case with this conference) the doctrine is that women are not to be pastors or elders, why not permit….no, invite the men’s wives to come? I’m probably not being very clear, but I see nothing “spiritual” in separating husbands and wives from each other. Inevitably the agenda for such conferences effects this separation, even if the wives do come. “Ok, now, it’s time for the theological discussion, all you ladies head out now to the women’s tea we are putting on for you.” Ugh. I don’t like that at all. It promotes an unbiblical power trip mindset that these attendees are going to take back to their churches.

    Liked by 4 people

  3. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

    “‘These people honor me with their lips,
    but their hearts are far from me.
    They worship me in vain;
    their teachings are merely human rules.’”

    Liked by 2 people

  4. This is just another men vs women thing. Let’s not let women out of their place. Why isn’t that women can’t be shepherd’s? They are much better, in general, at nurturing. It totally reminded me that the Gospel Coalition Women’s Conference is coming up. Any man that wants to go can have my seat. I won’t be there.

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  5. in the church I used to attend women weren’t even allowed to pray together as a group or even hold a woman’s tea party as an official church function without the Pastor or a church elder present….. The women had to wear hats in the church service but ironically could wear low cut dresses or mini skirts with make up pancaked on!!!!!

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  6. He’s so much more important but he can’t get in! How sad. All those ‘wives’ (I guess single ladies are right out!) taking up space that should be his.

    If this guy were my pastor I would be gone just because of the whine factor, but honestly being fed up with the ‘every man on staff is a pastor/every woman something else’ is what drove me out of the baptist church. Tired of it.

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  7. Poor J.D. was relegated to try and find a seat in the spill-over room and there wasn’t even a spot for him in there!

    If I remember Miano’s and CON’s tweets and Instagrams from previous years, women have been there to serve the men, but they didn’t sit in on the “learning.” Perhaps this year they were given the opportunity to hear at least one speaker.

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  8. Exactly, Kathi. You know what, he’s really airing his complaint inappropriately. Notice how he blames the women? Well, obviously, the women are not to blame if the Shepherds’ Conference leaders are allowing it. Why is he not voicing his complaints to the powers that be at the Shepherds’ Conference??? Oh, I know, I know, because it’s more fun to blame women . . . . cuz it’s always their fault.

    Liked by 2 people

  9. JD’s complaint occurred on the final night of the conference, and I’ve been told (by another pastor who attended) that at that point, it’s opened to the church family and Pastor’s wives so they can attend the final sessions. And so, the seats were “legitimately” filled with women as well as men, and no doubt there was an overflow crowd at that point.
    What irks me more about this is, JD Hall disapproves of almost every single Christian women’s Conference speaker and would rather women not attend them – but now it seems he’d deprive them of hearing a teacher that he respects, like John MacArthur, as well. Maybe in his mind, women have no place being spiritually fed in the same degree as men. I just don’t know, but that’s the way it seems.

    PS: If it’s JUST a “Pastor’s Conference” (as I was told by a Pastor) okay sure, then keep everyone else out, men including women. But it seems there were a lot of men there who weren’t Pastors, which would suggest a troubling double standard.

    Liked by 2 people

  10. First of all, it is misplaced anger – – if he’s mad that women are there, he should not be mad at women, but the leaders who made that decision.

    Secondly, the conference is geared to pastors/leaders, but any man can attend. My suing pastor brought as many men from his church that he could.

    Re: JD, if you watch him engage with women, you will see a pattern of angst against them. Interestingly, privately, on the phone, he is polite and respectful. At least he was to me.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Male attendee: “I learn best when my wife and I learn together.”
    Conference : “No, you don’t.”
    Male attendee: “Really, it’s true.”
    Conference: “No, it’s not. Leave her at home and come alone.”

    Liked by 2 people

  12. I have to respectfully disagree with many of the comments here. Although I don’t agree with this man’s manner, I do believe there is significant value in men coming together separately from women, just as I believe it is appropriate and beneficial for women to come together separately at women’s conferences and retreats. I think it would be odd for my husband to show up at a women’s retreat, and it would definitely affect the air of such an event.

    My husband attended a Promise Keepers event many years ago, and it was life-changer for him, to be in an arena filled with men confessing their sins to one another, humbling themselves and calling upon the Spirit to inspire them to be leaders in their workplaces and their homes, and to hear the voices of 40,000 men lifted in worship. I don’t see why anyone would have a problem with that.

    There is a commonality and fellowship that is uniquely different from situations where the genders are blended. While in some situations, there may be an us-versus-them kind of mindset, we should not always assume that a lording-over ideology will dominate. Men should have the opportunity to come together to “speak man” to one another and worship in one voice and bolster one another’s faith in ways that are uniquely powerful. I see nothing wrong with that. In fact, I wish we had more of it. We support young boys’ and men’s groups like the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts (let’s not get political here) for similar reasons. I believe the gender differences should be appreciated and celebrated, that we need godly men to be leaders and protectors in our homes and communities and to have the opportunity to build one another up – without women present.

    Perhaps we shouldn’t paint every situation with the same, broad brush.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Tom, I gather that J.D. Hall may be a patriarchal, control-your-woman kind of pastor-teacher. However, if his teachings are the issue, then let his teachings be exposed for what they are. The subject here is whether women should attend a conference designed for men. From my perspective, the answer is ‘no.’

    If men are influenced by that man’s teachings resulting in harm to themselves and their families, then those men must be easily manipulated, lacking in discernment and godly wisdom and will ultimately suffer for their failure to identify those false teachings and likewise failing to stand up for truth. If those are the real issues, then those should be clarified, but that is not what I am seeing here.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. I’m in agreement with Cindy Burrell so I won’t be repetitious.
    Yes, Julie Anne – I agree; what stood out to me from the beginning is JD’s attitude. I’m glad his true nature is being exposed. Will be interesting to see how many others have been vocal like him and how this will affect the popularity of the Shepherd’s Conference?

    Liked by 1 person

  15. Jeff said,

    “Ok, now, it’s time for the theological discussion, all you ladies head out now to the women’s tea we are putting on for you.” Ugh.

    From Luke chapter 10:

    As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him.

    39 She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet listening to what he said.

    40 But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!”

    41 “Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, 42 but few things are needed—or indeed only one.
    Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.”

    Didn’t Jesus know that per J D Hall, Wayne Grudem, John Piper and every complementarian ever, that the women were supposed to be fixing dinner or attending tea parties while only the men participated in theological debate or learning?

    That Jesus of Nazareth, so unlearned and clueless.

    Liked by 4 people

  16. Re “I believe the gender differences should be appreciated and celebrated”

    Most of those differences are socially conditioned.

    A man should not feel embarrassed or reluctant to admit his sins or problems in front of a Christian woman, barring any super male-centric issues – like he has some funky physical problem with his male genitals that he would only feel comfy hearing the men hear about and pray over.

    Like

  17. Cindy B said,

    “However, if his teachings are the issue, then let his teachings be exposed for what they are. The subject here is whether women should attend a conference designed for men. From my perspective, the answer is ‘no.’”

    Another issue that Julie Anne has brought up is that JD Hall is blaming women for being there – but it’s not their fault.

    If this is a comp church that thinks only men have “say so,” the men should have barred the women from going in the first place.

    Secondly – J D Hall is blaming women for women being there, when he should have taken this issue up with the MEN who put the thing on and made the rules.

    This reminds me of complementarian church members who complain about churches supposedly being too feminine

    Well, who is in charge of most of these churches (which tend to be comp)?
    Men, that’s who.

    The men blame women for their inability or reluctance to put limits on women doing things like pinking out floral print curtains, or choosing pink colored carpet for the church, or singing “I Love Jesus, Jesus is my boyfriend” type songs.

    Guess what? You only have those girly pink carpets and “Jesus if my BF” songs in your comp church because the men are permitting it to happen. You can’t blame women for where the men are falling short, but they do.

    Someone above said that this was a Preacher only event, yet male non-preachers were apparently allowed to attend. If that is so, if non-preacher men were allowed to attend a preacher only event, why can women not also be there?

    Liked by 2 people

  18. ” – like he has some funky physical problem with his male genitals that he would only feel comfy hearing the men hear about and pray over.”

    As long as there is no anointing with oil or laying on of hands.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. Cindy Burrell, you wrote: ” The subject here is whether women should attend a conference designed for men. From my perspective, the answer is ‘no.’”

    However, women WERE allowed to attend on the last day of the conference in question, it was the only time (I’m told) that they allowed the ladies who were there to serve, and the wives that accompanied their husbands, to sit in and take in the final sessions. This was the context for which JD Hall was complaining, the women were allowed in, and they’d taken all his seats, and he was grumpy about them being there.

    Like

  20. Rather than blame the “women” why not blame the conference organizers. If people are paying to be there wouldn’t you think the organizers would provide a seat for each attendee or stop selling tickets or sell tickets stamped standing room only. I’ve organized plenty of events and the math really isn’t that hard. # of tickets sold = # of chairs needed.

    Liked by 3 people

  21. I don’t have the spiritual maturity and ability to be a class A “Epologist” nor do I have the discernment / polemic skills of Mr. Hall (thank you Jesus), but get up earlier and get there to get a seat.

    Liked by 2 people

  22. My biggest problem with Mr. Hall is Braxton, it was less than 2 years ago, he had a chance to learn a dear, life changing lesson and did not. Of course, I do not blame him alone for what happened or even if there was a direct link between the twitter dialog and Braxton. But he had a chance to learn a life lesson that had a huge price tag and he squandered it for cheap polemical stardom. The first suicide I was close to was in my friends house at the same time he killed himself in the garage I was in the living room. It was about the same time the ambulance arrived. I remember every single detail and hold those lessons close. I watch for the signs and get involved at times at a great cost. In this article, he really seemed to get it and if he would have he could have reached his tribe with such a powerful lesson. But he did not. That is my biggest problem with Mr. Hall.

    http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2014/august/suicide-pastors-kid-soul-searching-ergun-caner-braxton-hall.html

    Liked by 2 people

  23. In this type of pastor/men only conference…..what types of things are they teaching the young men that may be impressionable? In the screen shot that JA referred to, I would like to know the answer to that question also…..”by what means does a man get control of his wife?”. Is he to tell her to give up her seat for a man? That doesn’t sound like a real gentleman or godly man. Is he to slap her, as John Piper has said she should endure for a season? JD’s tone sounds a whole lot abusive to me and that makes me want to turn over a few tables.

    We have ladies meetings at church. That is to get to know one another and hear from female missionaries who come to our local church from time to time. We also have the opportunity to share our needs with one another and know how to pray for each other. It is a good time of fellowship with other women. We don’t go to talk about how to control the husbands or who should control their man. It is just nuts that it would be spoken about by either gender.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. There is no way to “control” your spouse without being abusive. The very thought is abusive. The word “control” means forcing outward compliance to do something they do not want to do. Parents have a duty to control their young children to protect them from harm as they learn how to control themselves (the ultimate goal). Spouses have no such right to control one another! That these men can say openly “control your wife” shows how out of touch they are. It’s sick.

    Liked by 3 people

  25. With all due respect, I have never noticed a difference in the spiritual maturity of men who attend these men’s events above men who don’t. They are gimmicky and promote will worship rather than true spiritual growth. The new testament does not promote making lists of “promises” and trying to keep them. It promotes relationship with Christ who set us free from trying to clean up our old nature. Yes, it’s possible some individual men have heard something at one of these conferences that inspired them in some way but by and large I find that Christians do not grow through attending seminars and retreats and special events but by walking humbly with God through the normal events of their lives.

    I’m not a fan of men only or women only events, myself. They have their place but often they are just so stereotyped and limited. As if men’s souls and women’s souls have different needs.

    YMMV this is just my own observation after 40 years as a Christian.

    Liked by 1 person

  26. Shy1 said (in regards to JD’s post about husbands controlling their wives):

    There is no way to “control” your spouse without being abusive. The very thought is abusive.

    I am reminded of this:

    Control: The Reason The Gospel Coalition and CBMW Cannot Actually Condemn Spousal Abuse

    There is nothing in the Bible telling husbands that they can or should “control their wives.” Even if one believes in gender complementarianism, thinking that husbands can or should control their wives is even more eisegesis at work than comp is already built upon – one has to read in a lot of assumptions into the text to arrive at that view.

    To interpret the Bible in that way to arrive at that conclusion, J D Hall would have to think to himself,
    “I believe the New Testament says husbands are the “heads” of wives, with an understanding that headship assumes ‘Authority Over’: the husband is a boss figure to the wife (not an equal partner), and the wife must take his orders. Ergo, a husband has the right and responsibility to “control” his wife.”

    The whole thought process is based on an infused on sexism. The Bible teaches the concept of individual personal responsibility.

    Also, I have never married. What the holy hell would J D Hall do with a woman like me? He cannot make an appeal to my husband to “control” me, as I have no husband. He would have to deal with me directly, one adult to another.

    He should be dealing with other men’s wives as adult to adult peers, not as little girls who need their daddy figure (husband) to tell them to sit down and shut up.

    How about I suggest that Mrs. J D Hall control her husband, J D?

    Like

  27. There is another troubling element to this, that of affiliation. Those of you who are familiar with Chris Rosebrough of “Fighting for the Faith” on Pirate Christian Radio, should know that while he publicly calls out other Preacher/Teacher/Conference Speakers for heresy ALL THE TIME, he remains a friend and stalwart defender of JD Hall. Why? I suppose it’s because he doesn’t preach enough heresy. It’s sad that being an abusive Shepherd gets a free pass with people like Rosebrough. Bear that in mind if you are a frequent listener, especially if you financially support his program.

    Liked by 1 person

  28. I have read on other sites that Promise Keepers damaged marriages.

    I’ve read of Christian women who said after their husband went to PK, it harmed their marriages. Sometimes I just saw a few short sentences by these women on other forums or blogs in passing, and they didn’t always go into detail. I don’t recall the specifics.

    I’ll see if I can find other sources that criticize PK.

    Here’s a page that is critical of PK (I’ve not read the whole page, so me posting this is not necessarily an endorsement of all its views):
    _Promise Keepers: Seven reasons to watch out_

    The section under “5 Masculine Spirituality” looks like it might be interesting.

    Here is a snippet from that part:

    Men should “worship God as phallic kinds of guys,” not like “the feminized males so popular in many feminist-enlightened churches,” according to Hicks.

    Hicks characterizes Jesus Christ as having “all the inherent phallic passions,” and blames feminists for neutering Christ and downplaying the penis that made Christ “very much masculine.”11

    Hicks says that the church needs to establish masculine initiation rites because men experience more gender role conflict than women do. He urges church elders to congratulate young men on passing milestones of masculinity, and to wink at behavior (such as premarital sex) that the church typically condemns.12

    Exactly what happens to the young women confessing similar indiscretions is not spelled out.

    A “phallic Jesus”? What The?

    And this:

    ..blames feminists for neutering Christ and downplaying the penis that made Christ “very much masculine.”

    WHAT?!

    I didn’t realize that feminists were so powerful that they could “neuter Christ.” Those are some tricky, crafty, powerful feminists.

    How often does the New Testament describe Jesus or the faith as being “masculine” or “feminine”? Zero, amirite? The Bible doesn’t get into categorizing the faith as being manly or womanly, so why do evangelical Americans do so?

    I also dispute this PK guy’s claim that young men struggle more with sexual or identity issues than young women do. I disagree on that.

    Christians often teach young women that they only become fully adult if they marry and have children – secular culture also teaches this concept: that the only initiation in real, honest to God adulthood is to have sex.
    (This message is also presented to men, but it seems women get hit with it a bit harder.)

    The snippet under the “Women” section drips with sexism and makes a lot of unfounded assumptions about women who don’t buy into gender comp views:

    Women
    The only women you’ll see at a PK stadium event are those hawking hot dogs or selling T-shirts, or those carefully cloistered away from public view in the VIP box or the baseball dugout.
    PK says that the absence of women allows men to open up more and discuss male issues in a male context.

    This male exclusivity is problematic because of what PK says about women: that they are weak and incapable of shouldering responsibility.

    Speaker Gary Smalley told PKers to view their wives as “weaker vessel[s]” at RFK stadium in May 1996.
    In his book, PK speaker Tony Evans says that women were intended by God to be “helpers” for men and that they were “never meant to bear the burden of responsibility for home and family.”15

    In a chapter entitled “No More Sissified Males,” Evans says that men’s leadership roles have been taken away by “society and feminists.” He thinks that “feminists of the more aggressive persuasion are frustrated women unable to find the proper male leadership.”

    …PK says that women should submit to their husbands. In Seven Promises of a Promise Keeper Tony Evans admonishes men to “take back” the leadership of their homes from their wives, saying that “there can be no compromise” on this issue. Women are instructed to submit to their husbands, “for the sake of your family and the survival of our culture.”

    …PKers are told that women want to be dominated by men in an affectionate paternalism.

    Why is that guy assuming all women need or want ‘male leadership,’ when Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 7 it is better for men and women to stay single
    (hence, no “male headship” or “male leadership,” other than Christ Himself, is needed for single women. If it’s not needed for single ones, hint: it’s not needed for married ones, either.)

    If the reason Christian men have a man-only event, and they intentionally seek to bar women from full or meaningful participation, is so that they feel more comfortable “trash talking” women behind women’s backs, then no, I don’t support that.

    This part caught my eye:

    McCartney [PK leader] called homosexuality an “abomination against Almighty God” and said homosexuals don’t deserve civil rights because they are “a group of people who don’t reproduce.”

    Yeah, and infertile couples, child-free couples, celibate adults, and adults past child bearing years also don’t reproduce, either.

    If Christians want to dispute homosexuality, I wish they would find another argument other than the “they don’t naturally pro-create” one, because there are plenty of hetero couples who cannot or do not wish to pro-create, either.

    Liked by 1 person

  29. sh33ple said

    There is another troubling element to this, that of affiliation. Those of you who are familiar with Chris Rosebrough of “Fighting for the Faith” on Pirate Christian Radio, should know that while he publicly calls out other Preacher/Teacher/Conference Speakers for heresy ALL THE TIME, he remains a friend and stalwart defender of JD Hall.

    Why? I suppose it’s because he doesn’t preach enough heresy.

    It’s sad that being an abusive Shepherd gets a free pass with people like Rosebrough. Bear that in mind if you are a frequent listener, especially if you financially support his program.

    I used to listen to the PCR show. I don’t so much anymore.

    I have noticed that Rosebrough will “give a pass” to anyone who misbehaves, so long as he approves of or agrees with their theology.

    To put this another way: if it were JOEL OSTEEN (one of Rosebrough’s most reviled preachers whom he regularly mocks and criticizes on his show) who was behaving as J D Hall were, Rosebrough would be dedicating 67 billion hours of his radio program to denouncing Osteen over it.

    But because CR digs JDH’s theological views, he’s all cool with it.

    Rosebrough it also a gender complementarian who derogatorily refers to women preachers using the word “Pastrix.”
    He thinks that brand of sexism is cute – coming up with cute terms to disparage women in ministry. What would CR call Junia of the New Testament, an Apostle-ette?

    If you want to be a gender complementarian, I think that’s sad, but at least don’t be a smug or condescending jackass about it, when discussing women or women preachers.

    Like

  30. And that begs the question. If a Pastor is beating his wife behind closed doors, but preaches the truth on Sundays, is that acceptable to Chris Rosebrough. Because, a lot of bully preachers do exactly that, Someone needs to ask him the hard questions in a way that he can’t avoid answering.

    Liked by 1 person

  31. sh33pl3 said,

    And that begs the question. If a Pastor is beating his wife behind closed doors, but preaches the truth on Sundays, is that acceptable to Chris Rosebrough. Because, a lot of bully preachers do exactly that, Someone needs to ask him the hard questions in a way that he can’t avoid answering.

    I was re-reading portions of a book I had this morning that echoes that.

    by Dwight L. Carlson, M.D., from the book Why Do Christians Shoot Their Wounded:

    What’s the difference between people and lobsters? Human beings are soft and warm on the outside with a hard skeleton on the inside; lobsters are soft and vulnerable inside but wear a hard shell on the outside.

    The church needs to be more like people: the skeleton of solid beliefs on the inside, but warm and huggable on the outside. Who needs a church like a lobster – hard and sharp – even if it is doctrinally “right”?

    The crustacean may be safe inside its armor, but no one ants to hug a lobster!

    … Their [some Christians’] fellowship [in the church they attend] may be doctrinally sound, but the people are harsh, legalistic and judgmental.

    Rosebrough is a little odd on this, IMO.

    He does believe in grace for some people – like the preacher who confessed to adultery (Tullian) – but in other ways seems legalistic. Or, he’s selectively legalistic: he thinks people should be held accountable for their sins – unless they agree with his brand of theology.
    I find both sides of that troubling. Some Christians seem too lax about sin, while others seem too legalistic or harsh about it.

    sh33pl3 said,

    And that begs the question. If a Pastor is beating his wife behind closed doors, but preaches the truth on Sundays, is that acceptable to Chris Rosebrough.

    I think Doug Wilson, Paige Patterson, and J D Hall definitely fit that description. You can do whatever you want to people and sin all the day long, so long as you publicly align with their preferred theological beliefs.

    Liked by 1 person

  32. Daisy:

    “Also, I have never married. What the holy hell would J D Hall do with a woman like me? He cannot make an appeal to my husband to “control” me, as I have no husband. He would have to deal with me directly, one adult to another.”

    Then you should be submitting to your father. Your father’s not around? Then you should probably be submitting to a spiritual father figure. You must always have a man acting as a covering over you. Because, you know, it’s in the Bible. I think I read it in 1 IMakeThisStuffUp 2:25

    Liked by 1 person

  33. The kindest thing he could’ve done would’ve been to grab a woman and throw her out of her chair…then she wouldn’t have been subjected to a conference put on by John MacArthur and attended by J.D. Hall.

    Like

  34. I think Doug Wilson, Paige Patterson, and J D Hall definitely fit that description. You can do whatever you want to people and sin all the day long, so long as you publicly align with their preferred theological beliefs.

    Purity of Ideology, Comrades.
    Purity of Ideology.

    Like

  35. A “phallic Jesus”? What The?

    “Ah don’ care if it rains or freezes
    Long as Ah got mah Phallic Jesus
    Sittin’ on the headboard of mah bed…”

    Christians often teach young women that they only become fully adult if they marry and have children – secular culture also teaches this concept: that the only initiation in real, honest to God adulthood is to have sex.

    I’m a guy raised well outside the Christianese bubble, and I got taught that concept; first from the guys in the high school locker room, then by my stepmother. That I wasn’t really an adult until I Got Laid. Period. (I have carried the carrion stench of virginity for all my adult life.)

    He should be dealing with other men’s wives as adult to adult peers, not as little girls who need their daddy figure (husband) to tell them to sit down and shut up.

    The same “little girls” who are expected to be sexually available to those same daddy figures (husbands) whenever/wherever/however HE gets Urges in his Areas. (Including both ends of the alimentary canal or when she’s puking her guts from morning sickness — chuckle chuckle.) Are these comp guys & Reformed preachers closet pedos or what?

    Like

  36. And this:

    ..blames feminists for neutering Christ and downplaying the penis that made Christ “very much masculine.”

    WHAT?!

    Obviously some ManaGAWD’s mistaking Jesus for Priapus.

    Liked by 1 person

  37. Shepherds’ Conference, J.D. Hall, Women, Church #ShepCon #ShepCon2016, John Mac Arthur, Pulpit and Pen, Bunker

    Wasn’t Pulpit & Pen those Holy Net Drunks who harassed Braxton Caner to suicide to get back as his father?

    Like

  38. I am amazed at the amount of hatred that has been put most of these posts, these are the type of comments that I would expect of those who are of the world, not those who profess to love and follow the Lord Jesus Christ as their savior. Most of these comments are just pure hatred because you disagree with the persons political/theological views, and instead of pointing out in love what you disagree with from your “brother”, most of you including the “author” of this blog have decided that hate filled rants are the best way to go at this.

    I will pray that the Lord Jesus shows you the error of your ways, and I hope that you will examine the way that you approached your “brother in Christ” and see that it was indeed unfruitful.

    God bless.

    Like

  39. I do not think he actually meant disrespect to women.
    Women are obvious attendees.
    He was kidding about not getting a seat.

    Like

  40. David: Let me guess if we do not agree with J.D.’s views–we are just bitter? If you are going to pray for the you’s who might that be or are you going to just pray a generic prayer.

    I personally find your post unhelpful.

    Liked by 2 people

  41. MacArthur’s Shephard Conference is designed to meet needs if pastors (shepherds).

    #1- if there is a need for seating for shepherds to attend, it seems (rules or not) to be in bad form for women to attend…

    #2 even if it is pastor wives attending, would it not be in the best interest for those attending, to prioritize seating for pastors?

    #3 the writer above doesn’t seem to grasp the biblical qualifications of a pastor/shepherd.

    So – if the conference is established for pastors, the seating should be for pastors. This is particularly true if there is overflow/standing room only.

    And a word to JD— next time, get there earlier!

    Liked by 1 person

  42. “instead of pointing out in love what you disagree with”

    David, I see a lot of people pointing out what they disagree with – whether it is in ‘love’ or ‘hatred’ is sort of individual, yes? I do not know this man, so I neither love nor hate him. I do know that he sounds awfully self absorbed and whiney – which I would find disturbing if he were my pastor. Do you have any comments on that?

    Like

  43. Col 4:6 Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.

    Like

  44. I was grieved to read Daisy’s comment that gender differences are “socially conditioned.”

    That is a slap in the face of the God who created us male and female. If anything, we have been socially conditioned to accept that there is no difference between the genders, while they are intrinsically beautiful in their uniqueness and complementary nature. If God intended us to be the same, He could have created us unisex.

    But He didn’t.

    Liked by 1 person

  45. Cindy B said,

    I was grieved to read Daisy’s comment that gender differences are “socially conditioned.”

    That is a slap in the face of the God who created us male and female.
    If anything, we have been socially conditioned to accept that there is no difference between the genders, while they are intrinsically beautiful in their uniqueness and complementary nature. If God intended us to be the same, He could have created us unisex.

    But He didn’t.

    You’re over stating your case.

    Groups of people complementing one another is fine – but Christian gender complementarianism teaches MALE HIERARCHY.

    How Christians teach gender, yes, most of it is socially constructed, not based on the Bible.

    I myself don’t fit into the approved gender role box created by gender comp Christians. I was never a girly-girl, though my mother tried darned hard to raise me to be a June Cleaver housewife clone.

    I was far more interested as a kid in running, climbing up trees, and play acting “Bat Man” with neighborhood boys. I did not like dolls or playing Barbie with neighbor girls.

    As a woman, I’m still not into a lot of the preferred gender distinctions that Christians such as yourself say I am “supposed” to emulate, enjoy, and participate in (e.g, I’m not keen on being around children or baking casseroles).

    My lived experience does not bear up to what you think the Bible is teaching about gender.

    I think the genders are more alike than different, but I never said they are 100 percent identical – that is putting words in my mouth.

    Women who don’t fit the Christian-socially invented gender roles (which are often based on 1950s secular American culture, but said to be “biblical” – but are not) marginalize and/or ostracize any women who does not meet them.

    Marginalizing people or denigrating them for not meeting, or for not living out or living up to, certain gender roles (which are not even biblical in the first place) is what is a “total slap in the face” to women and men both in and outside of the church.

    Of course, some gender comps, such as Pastor Mark Driscoll do the same thing to men:
    Men who don’t meet the Christian- socially conditioned state of ideal manhood (such as loving sports; participating in fighting; hunting; acting macho and tough) get derided and insulted by Christian guys like Driscoll for supposedly being wimpy, girly men who aren’t fulfilling their so called “biblical manhood” roles.

    Women like me who never marry and never had children are lectured or scorned by Christians such as yourself who cling tightly to prescribed gender roles, as we are conditioned by Christian culture (and sad to say, even secular culture) to think a woman’s only or most important role in life is to marry and have kids.

    (All of that runs contra to apostle Paul’s instructions in 1 Corin. 7, which say it’s preferable to stay single and ergo childless. But do Christians who attempt to enforce these gender roles care about what the Bible really says?
    No, apparently not, because they have an agenda to push and issue guilt trips over, so they water down or gloss over the portions that invalidate their world views, which are again, informed more by secular culture and assumptions about gender roles than by the Bible.)

    There Are No Biblical Men by Brandon Robertson (on Patheos)

    Like

  46. I am taken aback by the level of hostility in Cindy Burrell’s post to me.
    I don’t think anything I said or did justified that response. I don’t recall having issues with her on this blog in the past.

    My parents were gender complementarians, and I was raised to be one as well. My parents believed in old fashioned gender roles.

    Gender comp teachings seemed suspicious to me as a kid and teen, but I tried my hardest to believe in them.
    Until I got to my mid 30s or so, which is when I realized once for all that the Bible doesn’t support comp. I saw that the Bible really is not teaching what comps think it’s teaching.

    I’ve not been living as a gender complementarian for years now, and it’s certainly not harmed me. I’m a lot better off having left that thinking behind.

    Cindy Burrell might want to read this page, and ones like it:

    _On Being a Woman After God’s Own Heart – Biblical Womanhood, or Cultural Womanhood?_ by J R Armstrong

    Liked by 1 person

  47. JD Hall is an idiot. Seriously, the best solution is to stop paying attention to him. Stop giving him money, stop legitimizing his “ministry” with quotes and controversies, stop lending him any credence whatsoever, and if you feel you must acknowledge him at all, just point, laugh, and openly mock and jeer. He’s not a “man of god,” he’s just another mush-brained self-important nitwit who takes himself way too seriously.

    Also, the entire Bunker can cram it. Morons.

    Liked by 1 person

  48. “That is a slap in the face of the God who created us male and female.”

    Did He create us spiritually male and female? If so, then there is a pink and blue salvation. Is there a pink or blue relationship with Jesus Christ? God came as male so this gender focus gets tricky.

    Perhaps we do make too much of gender distinctions that are not biological.

    Like

  49. OOOO THE BIG BAD BUNKER, WHERE THE SELF-ANOINTED OF GOD GATHER ONLINE TO CIRCLE-PREACH AND STROKE EACH OTHER’S EGOS AND ARM THEMSELVES PARA-MILITARY STYLE WITH COMPLETELY INADEQUATE COMMERCIALLY-AVAILABLE GUNS TO PREPARE FOR ARMAGEDDON AND WORLD WAR II.5. You silly sods. To quote the great Jim Jeffries, YOU’RE BRINGING GUNS TO A DRONE FIGHT. Good luck with that.

    Liked by 1 person

  50. I am shocked JD Hall has any credibility at all. We are talking about a grown man who went after a teen on Twitter because he hated his dad. Not long after the boy committed suicide. I doubt JD’s horrible treatment of him and trashing his dad to him helped in his teenage angst. This is a “pastor” we should take seriously? He definitely fits into the world of McArthur.

    Liked by 1 person

  51. I’m sorry but everything – E V E R Y T H I N G – about JD Hall makes me laugh until I’m blind and semi-conscious. How can I possibly be expected to take this dude seriously? He’s like a leaky hot-air balloon and he serves no useful purpose.

    Liked by 1 person

  52. I tried to start an argument on Twitter with JD Hall at one point. One of his minions picked up the slack, and I humiliated that guy so badly that he quit responding and blocked me. It’s pointless. These guys are so stupid that they don’t know how stupid they are. It’s classic Dunning-Kruger.

    Liked by 1 person

  53. what I am reading is oozing the arrogant condescending piety that pretty much defines that camp. The big mistake is thinking there can be conversation that disagrees. They are specially anointed to use the rebuke card with the peasants. They are “bitter” as they accuse others of bitterness. It is positively hilarious. I often wonder why anyone cares what they think. What they hate the most is not being able to control people.

    Liked by 1 person

  54. Hi Lydia,

    I am a much-hated member of the Pulpit & Pen Bunker, hated for the fact that I leak screenshots to expose how things really are in JD’s world that he controls. They do have a point, sharing screenshots IS against the Bunker rules, and one day the Lord will weigh whether my rule-breaking was justified or not. Every day I tell myself, “I’m done with this” and then they slander some other person (they have their favorite whipping-boys, and Julie-Anne, the author of this blog, is one of them) and I feel they have a right to know what people are saying about them behind closed doors, because it’s usually slanderous gossip, and a whole lot of marginalizing and lampooning, not to mention name calling – not stuff you’d expect within a “Christian” group.
    Anyway, I digress. You said, “The big mistake is thinking there can be conversation that disagrees” and you are right. No one in the Bunker can question the behavior, or stick up for a person who is being picked on, and survive for very long. I usually count about 2-3 posts that go against the flow, before the person is either asked to leave, or gets kicked out.
    You asked (as others have often asked) “why anyone cares what they think”. Well, the number of folks who cares what the P&P crowd thinks, is dwindling quickly. There are still those who don’t know how they are behind closed doors, who quote them or link to an article, and secular media,which obviously has no clue, quoted them heavily on the Heaven Tourism story a year ago. But in Christian circles they are quickly losing steam as they lose their best writers, and some of their best-known colleagues who finally see them as they are, and disassociate themselves.

    This is actually a pity, and I don’t often get to say this: JD Hall and Pulpit & Pen are often right when they call out heresy. Lifeway DID deserved to be called out over their promotion of Heavenly Tourism, Prosperity Gospel, and Joel Osteen books etc. etc. It’s just too darn bad the Bunker crowd go about it in a bullying manner that turns everyone off the main message, even good people who would normally support them if they’d turn down the snark and nastiness. Unfortunately they think snark, character assassination, defamation, and stunts like putting Karen Swallow-Prior’s image on a bag of Doritos to tie her to the Gay agenda, are all God’s tools for “fighting the Good fight”. And so, they shoot themselves in the foot, and rather than make a difference, they cause those who should repent, to turn a blind eye and ear, and those who would help them, to shun them and their antics.

    Liked by 3 people

  55. It’s just too darn bad the Bunker crowd go about it in a bullying manner that turns everyone off the main message, even good people who would normally support them if they’d turn down the snark and nastiness. Unfortunately they think snark, character assassination, defamation, and stunts like putting Karen Swallow-Prior’s image on a bag of Doritos to tie her to the Gay agenda, are all God’s tools for “fighting the Good fight”. And so, they shoot themselves in the foot

    They’re bullies precisely because they’re idiots. And calling out heresy is not that difficult. When you have heretics and idiots calling out other heretics and idiots, the whole lot of them deserve each other and the rest of us will figure it out for ourselves just fine.

    It’s like two stupid Three-Card Monte barkers arguing over who has the right to work that side of the street, and meanwhile the intended audience has assessed that the whole situation is bogus anyway and has wandered off to do something worthwhile.

    Liked by 2 people

  56. Charles

    Wow – You write @ MARCH 14, 2016 @ 6:43 AM…
    “Pastor’s conferences are for pastors.biblical pastors are men.”

    Hmmm? “biblical pastors?”
    It’s probably NOT your fault.
    You probably just believe.
    What someone with the “Title/Position,”
    pastor/leader/reverend, taught you.
    😦

    Have you ever done your own research about pastors? In the Bible?
    When you do, you’ll find almost nothing today’s pastor gets paid to do…
    Is in the Bible. 😦

    Here are some questions to keep in mind…
    If you ever decide to search the scriptures about pastors for yourself.

    In the Bible, can you name…
    One of His Disciples who called themselves pastor? Or leader?
    One of His Disciples who called another Disciple pastor? Or leader?
    One of His Disciples who took the “Title” pastor? Or leader?
    One of His Disciples who was ordained as a pastor? Or leader?
    One of His Disciples who was Hired, or Fired, as a pastor? Or leader?

    Seems, in the Bible, NOT one of His Disciples, desired, or needed…

    The “Title/Position,” pastor/leader/reverend…

    Like

  57. “You asked (as others have often asked) “why anyone cares what they think”. Well, the number of folks who cares what the P&P crowd thinks, is dwindling quickly”

    Even I noticed that on some Neo Calvinista pastor blogs. I think they view him as an out of control dirty bomb not worth the potential fallout. JD is so narcissistic he thinks it is because they are heretics. :o)

    I fully expect to see him don the costumes of the original ‘downgrade’ heresy period in England as the next Spurgeon. Kinda like Doug Phillips did the costume thing to portray the manly man.

    Spread the word: if JD insults you, it is a huge compliment.

    Liked by 2 people

  58. TweetiePie, you bring up an interesting question. Is it possible that all the snark, name calling, backbiting and stuff you wouldn’t expect in a Christian group are not extraneous but are the natural outcome of their beliefs? I’m just wondering. As it says in Matthew 7:

    “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.

    “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

    Liked by 1 person

  59. Most of these comments are just pure hatred because you disagree with the persons political/theological views, and instead of pointing out in love what you disagree with from your “brother”, most of you including the “author” of this blog have decided that hate filled rants are the best way to go at this.

    “David,” I have to guess that you do not talk with people who disagree with you very often if you automatically assume peoples’ hearts are filled with hate just because they call things like they see them.

    I would like to point out in love that it was horrendously unloving of J D Hall to contribute to the downfall of a young man who later committed suicide.

    [Mod note: I changed wording of last sentence for legal & integrity reasons. We do not know for a fact what caused young Braxton Caner to commit suicide. We do know JD was foolish in engaging with this young man and the exchange was highly inappropriate. ~ja]

    Like

  60. Hi Shy1, you asked, “Is it possible that all the snark, name calling, backbiting and stuff you wouldn’t expect in a Christian group are not extraneous but are the natural outcome of their beliefs?”

    I’m really tempted to call out a certain Christian belief group on this, but I’ve refrained since I do know at least a few from this certain Christian belief, who are genuinely nice people and do display the Fruit of the Spirit. However, most of the people from this group that I’ve come across on Social Media, are some of the most militant, unbending, rude, snarky (and they say snark is a Biblically-accepted way to interact with heretics), downright mean, and devoid of any display of Spiritual Fruit- people I’ve ever come across. I suspect you already know the group I’m talking about, (Someone even covered the song, “Why You Gotta Be So Rude” changing the lyrics slightly to reference them) and others also tag them as rude. Again, not naming names, but considering the founder they idolize so much had people burned at the stake for apostasy, could be why they seem to show little in the way of love for their enemies.

    Again, I don’t want to paint all with the same brush, but the short answer to your question is, “I believe you’re onto something”. 🙂

    Like

  61. One more comment regarding the Pulpit & Pen Bunker:
    I am despised for the fact that I lurk without commenting and take screenshots when they slander people like Julie-Anne behind their closed doors.
    Yes, what I do is “against their rules” – however, they usually post screenshots within the Bunker, often from Twitter or Facebook, in order to gossip about others. Granted, Twitter is a public forum, but the fact that they drag your comments into a secret place to gossip and slander about you is still no more right than the fact that I drag their filthy comments back out to the light of day.

    JD has accused me in the past, of posting the Bunkerite’s private struggles and prayer requests in order to make what I do sound much worse. The truth is, I’ve never posted prayer requests (by the way, JD rarely EVER responds to prayer requests… I thought he was a Shepherd.. hmmm….) or private struggles. If you search my Twitter history you’ll only ever find screenshots where people such as Julie Anne, Karen Swallow-Prior, Tom Buck, Dr. Randy White, and others, are being lampooned, gossiped about, back-stabbed, hated on or slandered. That’s all I do.

    If the Bunker people would actually act like Spirit-filled Christians, and discuss the theological problems without assassinating people’s characters, I’d say “Praise the Lord” and get involved, write letters, promote podcasts, who knows. Screenshots would be a thing of the past. I hate heresy too. But these people are filled with hatred, and make no bones about showing it in private, and they then hate me when I show the people they hate on, how much they are hated by JD Hall & company.

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  62. Thank you for speaking out, Tweetie Pie. I’ll bet they do think twice about what they post now because of your presence. Sad, though, because shouldn’t they always be mindful of their words?

    Liked by 1 person

  63. That’s the weird thing, Julie Anne. They know I’m there, they’ve even called me out and dared me to screenshot somethingorother and post it on Twitter. But it doesn’t seem to cause them to restrain themselves in the least. Haters gonna hate I guess, to use an overworked slogan.

    Liked by 1 person

  64. After reading many of the replys (not all, I just don’t have the time) I noticed that you all are missing a few points….
    1. The conference is designed to encourage, build up, and encourage pastors. The focus is not on the wives, though they did try including them one year and it was crazy packed.
    2. The size of the campus limits the number of people who can attend. It is a crush of people.
    3. I can understand the frustration of the pastor’s post. He paid for the conference, to have seats taken by wives (though I am sure they are lovely ladies) who did not pay for a spot. Many of these men save all year just to attend. As sweet as the ladies are, they are “stealing” seats they did not pay for. They can enjoy the sessions via the live streaming.

    As someone who helps out at the conference, hears many men who are ready to quit because their flocks are difficult come away encouraged and ready to ‘excel still more’, and watches the men encourage each other, it is so disheartening to read the cruel posts judging the men and the conference when 1.you haven’t attended, 2 . haven’t talked with these men personally, and 3. Have no desire, it seems, to know or hear while jumping to holier than thou oppinions. Please stop attacking.

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  65. It seems to me, in retrospect, that I’m taking on an increasingly ranting and angry tone at those who pop up on these threads to defend figures I don’t like. I get this way occasionally and I can see that it’s ugly and gross, but I get so furious with all the BS that it’s either be an acerbic assh*le, or shut my mouth and choke on my own bile.

    JA or Kathi, I could use a reality check here. If I’m getting too over-the-top in my replies and it’s becoming counterproductive, please let me know and I’ll take a few weeks off from commenting. If the purpose is to engage people in constructive dialogue and I’m just ranting and raving, then obviously I shouldn’t be doing that. I’m a bit unhinged in case anyone hadn’t noticed.

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  66. MBraun – Thanks for stopping by.

    You write…
    “As someone who helps out at the conference,
    hears many men who are ready to quit
    because their flocks are difficult…”

    Well, you sound kinda sincere…
    But, your first mistake is, you, and paid pastors, think…
    The congregation, the Pew Peons, are their flocks???

    NOPE 😉

    WE, His Sheep, His Disciples, His Servants…
    Do NOT belong to anyone who gets Paid to call them self **pastor.*

    Jesus said…
    MY Sheep – Hear MY Voice – and I know them – And They Follow ME.
    John 10:27

    WE, His Sheep, His Kings and Priests, His sons, His Ambassadors…
    Belong to – The “ONE” Shepherd.The Good Shepherd.

    {{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}

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  67. MBraun

    Have you considered the reason, at the conference, you…
    “…hears many men who are ready to quit…” IS …

    1 – These men, “ready to quit,”
    Have been bamboozled into taking…
    A “Title/Position,” pastor/leader/reverend…
    That does NOT exist in the Bible, for one of His Disciples?
    And they are just tired of hiding this fact from the congregation?

    In the Bible – Can you name…

    One of His Disciples who had the “Title/Position,” pastor/leader/reverend?

    Have you considered the reason, at the conference, you…
    “…hears many men who are ready to quit…” IS …

    2 – These men, “ready to quit,”
    Know they do NOT meet the qualifications…
    For elder/overseer found in 1 Tim 3, and Titus 1…
    As hard as they try, and try, they know they do NOT…
    And, in order to maintain their Power, Profit, Prestige…
    They have to “Ignore” and “Twist” these tough Qualifications…
    To Bamboozle the Pew Peons, Pretending, they meet these Qualifications?
    And they are just tired of hiding this fact from the congregation?
    Knowing they do NOT meet these tough qualifications?

    Like

  68. MBraun, you are cracking me up. You sound like a Mormon. “Sweet” Ladies. “Lovely” Ladies, etc.

    Years ago, there was a similar McArthur conference here and they did sell tickets to women. I know some who went. They oversold and then asked the PAYING women to give up their seats for the men because the men needed to learn more than them.

    Why any thinking person wants to attend these conferences, I will never understand. They are money makers for the organizers and do nothing more than further separate pastors from the pew sitters as Demi-gods. You drank the kook aid, MBraun. But I suppose they make you feel like a manly man and you need your fix.

    Like

  69. Dash, I was glad to read your 2nd comment. Most of the time, I leave your comments alone. The last one was too strong to be directed to someone who was trying to have reasonable dialogue, so I just removed it.

    An idea: if you start feeling unhinged as you say, why don’t you send me an email with the comment first?

    You know I always appreciate your presence and contribution here. Thanks, Dash.

    Like

  70. “Many of these men save all year just to attend. ”

    So true. I see it all the time here with T$G attendees. While the speakers and organizers make 6 figures and double dip with conference payouts. It’s a business using Jesus for profit. I am just sorry the poorer attendees think these charlatan men are more worthy of that money than their own family.

    Liked by 2 people

  71. Pingback: Doctrines, Theological Views, and Biblical Hermeneutics Have Real-Life Consequences – Personal Experience Vs. Sola Scriptura | missdaisyflower

  72. MBraun, you wrote:

    “After reading many of the replys (not all, I just don’t have the time) I noticed that you all are missing a few points….

    I can understand the frustration of the pastor’s post. He paid for the conference, to have seats taken by wives (though I am sure they are lovely ladies) who did not pay for a spot. Many of these men save all year just to attend. As sweet as the ladies are, they are “stealing” seats they did not pay for. ”

    Well, it shows you didn’t read ALL the posts, because you missed the ones that pointed out that what JD Hall was complaining about, was the final session on the last day, where the wives and ladies who helped to serve the conference, were INVITED to attend and sit with the men. So no seats were being stolen. They were invited, and you know, there’s lots of men who simply won’t travel without their wives (I don’t blame them) and their wives had to otherwise amuse themselves for the rest of the conference. It was nice they were finally allowed to sit with their husbands on the final day.

    Anyway, this is old news. Mr. Hall has bigger fish to fry these days, since some SBC church deacon isn’t living out his faith perfectly in the manner that JD Hall thinks he should be, and he’s got the whole Bunker on the warpath in an attempt to destroy said Deacon’s livelihood in revenge. Stay tuned.

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  73. A.Amos Love

    “Have you considered…?”

    No critical thinking occurs in Sunday Religious Social Clubs.

    Despite “prove all things, hold fast that which is good.”

    Liked by 1 person

  74. “The LORD is my Shepherd, I shall not want.
    He makes me lie down in green pastures;
    He leads me beside still waters.
    He restores my soul:
    He leads me in paths of righteousness for His Name’s sake.”
    Psalm 23: 1-3

    Thank-you A.Amos Love once again for pointing out exactly Who our true shepherd is…..and it brought those life saving (eternal) Scripture verses to mind. In complete agreement with you, dear sister!

    Grew up in the church system, attending every Sunday and never missed Sunday school ever, unless we were extremely sick, which was rare. And in those days, in our small rural church, we never heard nor read in our bulletins, concerning the pay for profit/prophet conference scam operating within the visible church. Maybe we were too ‘rural’ out in the back woods of society, or better yet, they didn’t exist back in those days. Never heard of the mature adults boasting and bragging of attending this Billy Graham conference or that Benny Hinn fake miracle road show, or that false revival from some slick speaking pastor man faking all kinds of ‘supernatural manifestations’ all the while having an ongoing adulterous affair with his children’s babysitter behind the scenes, even while he was ‘leading like jesus,’ a trumped up revival in Lakeland, Florida. (A self proclaimed “prophetess” boasted to me of their grand trip to Florida in attending Todd Bentley’s revival(?), then encouraged me to listen to this blasphemer on the internet because, being the unfortunate lower laity dog that I am, she decided that I needed his ‘ministering.’)

    No, I grew up in the church, but never heard of such a phenomenon: PAY THE PASTOR MAN A FEE TO HEAR THE GOSPEL

    Today, even in our rural community churches, these institutions charge money at the gate to come inside and hear a speaker speak. Churched women send me invitations to come to ‘their’ conference for $20, $50, $100, and in some cases $200, and this does not include the cost of travel, meals, and in some instances, motel rooms. Then of course, it is a must to bring extra funding to purchase all of the books, cds, dvds, and other trinkets that the pastor is SELLING for PROFIT because he knows a jesus better than you and as the advertisement says, “he wants to encourage you and build you up in your faith in HIM, oh sorry, must be a typo, I mean a jesus figure.

    In my former abusive church system where the wolves in sheep’s clothing sharpen their teeth, drooling over the prospect of another innocent sheep entering their building, imagining more dollars for their own pocketbooks, a more lavish personal lifestyle, and most importantly, a greater fan base to stroke their insecure egos…..the visiting conference speaker, whether a man or a woman, would always, always, always, have their table set up right by the church door consisting of their own authored books, their latest cd’s and dvd’s, their t-shirt with a scripture verse and their OWN names inked somewhere to promotes themselves, and other misc. junk. We could not escape their profit tables, nor the “would you like to buy one of his/her latest books?” question by the profiteer because there was no other way out of the building. It was a scam, a racket, and just plain wicked and evil….to be made to feel guilty for not buying the wares from tares…..just plain wicked.

    And now, we have grown men (well, they are supposed to be grown up, however, considering the comments that were made, it is dubious concerning the maturity level of such religious men) whining and complaining about women having a seat at a money making conference. Seriously?

    Where is the shame in all of this? And please tell me someone, where do we read in our Holy Scriptures where Jesus held a conference, charged money at the gate to come and hear Him, God in the flesh, speak? And where do we find in Scriptures where Jesus and his disciples/Apostles charged money for all of their books, cd’s, dvd’s, t-shirts, jewelry (all of the jesus junk afforded to us today to make us appear holy in the sight of men and women)? Where is the Scripture verse that says “Ye shall pay handsomely for a ticket to come and hear me share the Gospel, and then ye shall be saved! ????”

    Or the Scripture verse that says, “If thou shalt not have a seat to sit, it is ye duty and right to whine and complain before the religious magistrates, for thee shall be seen by all of man and your case shall be made.” I know men and women of religious importance have a difficult time receiving instruction from those they look down upon from elaborate turrets overlooking their little kingdoms, but if I may offer up a suggestion to those who regard themselves as leaders, it would be this…….

    The Gospel message is free. The Gospel is free to all who desire to receive this life saving, eternal Word from our LORD Jesus, the Christ. And may He have mercy and grace upon all of us who make a big show of profiting off of the harlot religious system all the while Jesus came to set the captives free from all of this whoredom.

    And I keep thinking, LORD…..I would rather break bread and fellowship with a prostitute who has repented and found that her faith lies in the only One Who can save, Jesus Christ, than sit in the presence of a religious man who believes a woman is not worthy of a seat at our Master’s feet.

    Liked by 3 people

  75. lifewithporpoise

    Much agreement when you write @ MARCH 28, 2016 @ 11:30 PM…
    “No critical thinking occurs in Sunday Religious Social Clubs.”

    “Despite “prove all things, hold fast that which is good.”

    I agree because – That was me at one time. Oy Vey!!!

    But, It’s amazing how “Pain,” “Abuse,” and “Tears,” can wake you up… 🙂
    And, you begin to go straight to Jesus, NO middle “Man.”
    And, you begin to ask different questions…
    And, you begin to get different answers…
    And, you begin to Follow Jesus…

    And, you find out, almost nothing of what goes on in the…
    “Sunday Religious Social Clubs” is in the Bible…

    And, you can NOT be like those in Berea… (prove all things)
    Who, “searched the scriptures daily,
    whether those things were so.”

    Because, what they, church leaders, christian leaders, spiritual leaders…
    Be-a-doin, teachin, ain’t even in the scriptures…

    2 Peter 2:3
    And through covetousness shall they with feigned words
    make merchandise of you:

    Like

  76. Katy

    Preach it sistuh. You’re on a roll. @ MARCH 29, 2016 @ 4:52 AM…

    Good stuff…

    “…we never heard nor read in our bulletins, concerning the pay for profit/prophet conference scam operating within the visible church.”

    “Never heard of the mature adults boasting and bragging of attending this Billy Graham conference or that Benny Hinn fake miracle road show…”

    “…the wolves in sheep’s clothing sharpen their teeth, drooling over the prospect of another innocent sheep entering their building, imagining more dollars for their own pocketbooks, a more lavish personal lifestyle, and most importantly, a greater fan base to stroke their insecure egos…”

    “The visiting conference speaker, whether a man or a woman, would always, always, always, have their table set up right by the church door consisting of their own authored books, their latest cd’s and dvd’s, their t-shirt with a scripture verse and their OWN names inked somewhere to promotes themselves, and other misc. junk.

    “We could not escape their profit tables,” 😉

    ”It was a scam, a racket, and just plain wicked and evil…” 😉

    ”Where is the shame in all of this?”

    “And please tell me someone, where do we read in our Holy Scriptures
    where Jesus held a conference, charged money at the gate
    to come and hear Him, God in the flesh, speak?”

    The Gospel message is free.”

    “The Gospel is free to all who desire to receive this life saving, eternal Word from our LORD Jesus, the Christ.”

    ”…Jesus came to set the captives free from all of this whoredom.”

    Thanks Katy, you made my day…

    Like

  77. and the greatest irony of all…

    wait for it…

    it’s usually the women who see this.

    Katy & A.Amos love,

    everything you have written is exactly how I view the ‘church’.

    It’s just not what Jesus had in mind.

    What deception.

    He warned us, didn’t he?

    Just a read of Matt 6 (how hypocrites pray) and Matt 23 reveals the modern day zealot.

    Talk about blinded by the (false) light.

    Like

  78. I’m new to your blog. I have read a few of your posts and many of them resonate with me on some level. The church I left about 4 months ago wasn’t an outright cult. What I mean is, some of the things other people describe–the pastors or the elders yelling at you, affairs, the leadership telling wives to stay with abusive husbands. These things weren’t obvious to me while I was in the church. The thing I finally realized was they were just a bunch of hypocrites. They stood up at the altar and talked about love, love, love and grace yet when I approached them, they’d tell me I was the problem. I fear even posting this here as now that we’ve left, certain members have found comments I’ve made and attacked me “How dare you say such things about the church?” How dare I? I dare because I am still so hurt by all they did. There’s so much I could say, but this post reminded me of one of the things they did. Women were there to pop out children, serve in the nursery, and help with women’s ministry crap. Women weren’t allowed to make decision or even give advice. No, this wasn’t said, but it was frowned upon. I offered to help with their website. I worked hours and hours on it. The Pastor got up and announced to the church that the website was getting updated and my husband was the contact person. Why my husband? I’m the one working on it! He didn’t do a thing. Just aggravated me. The pastors wife had 9 kids so everyone felt like it was some sort of competition–let’s all be Michelle Duggar. No thanks. My husband went to a “Fathers Council” meeting and he came home upset. He said “I just don’t fit in with those guys”. I asked why. Apparently one of them made a family crest–took 2 vacation days to meet with his wife in a hotel so they could come up with a family crest. Another dad talked about how he read all these books and led his family. The dumb thing was, all their kids were snotty jerks just like their parents. The church was not loving. The church was mean spirited, gossipy, and judgmental. I could go on and on about that, but I’m basically still really pissed off at the entire experience. Our family has chosen not to return to church. I still have a lot of anger about it though.

    Liked by 2 people

  79. Elle – I hear you loud and clear and I can understand your anger. I’ve been there.
    I had to contend with churches who condoned apathy in the men. Praise God that your husband and you are one. Mine played the Christian game and now does not profess Christ or want to be my husband. Long story but I left the church many years ago… tried returning but so many preach a false Gospel … and I felt I had to join their programs to be truly a part of their fellowship. Questioning was not always welcomed. 😦
    Homeschooled three children. As adults they now have gone the way of the world and I have been blamed for much … I know much of it is because I will not back down on the purity of the Gospel; like the man I married did. They have chosen his family, the yoga and other eastern mind-set about peace and harmony, etc.
    Take care, Elle. The Lord is our strength and many of us have had to draw away in order to worship Him.

    Liked by 1 person

  80. Good words of encouragement to Elle, healinginhim. We praise our LORD Jesus for you! Elle, Jesus called out His ekklesia/assembly to worship Him in spirit and in truth, to love each other like His Love for us, to bear one another’s burdens, to confess our sins to one another, and to pray, pray, and pray for one another as taught by Him. We are His chosen people, a people so different from the world that the world has and will always hate what Jesus loves; His sheep.

    Julie Anne has been called out to do this ministry here in the Name of Jesus, for His Name’s sake. The Body of Jesus Christ is ministering here to a number of saints who have been so wounded by wicked and evil men and women within the institutional church who are posers, imposters, those who seek important titles and dominance over other people. This is the world’s system of manipulation, power and control, it is not of our LORD Jesus, the Christ.

    Praise God, there are some amazing wonderful people commenting on this site who have assisted, with the help of the Holy Spirit, in being real, in bearing one another’s troubles, in praying people back to the only One Who saves, Jesus. His Ministry was and is like no other human being and will never be, for He is still God.

    Liked by 2 people

  81. And A. Amos Love, obliged to ‘make your day!’ You are the salt of this earth, a dear saint in Christ Jesus, alone for salvation.

    I love you, dear sister! For the freedom we have in Christ allows us to love one another without even meeting face to face on this side of Heaven. The Holy Spirit leads us together in Jesus’ love! Keep teaching, keep preaching on this site, for I will always need to be ministered too.

    Liked by 2 people

  82. Hi Katy

    Yes, Thank you – “the salt of this earth”
    I am a little salty, having been in the Navy.

    And yes, I’m honored, you call me “Dear Sister.”
    After all, We be both a part of “The Bride of Christ.”
    And, in Christ We be “one.”

    And, for future reference, I am my mothers only son.❤️

    Like

  83. That did have me going there for a minute. I’ve always called you brother, Amos. But Katy is right, too, we are all the Bride of Christ. My brain is easily confused though. If I met either of you in this world, it would help to have the gender right. lol

    Liked by 1 person

  84. Wow! Precious Amos, you are my brother in Christ Jesus! Amazing, I did not know, so very, very sorry to confuse the issue. My humble apologies to you personally, here in the public forum. So glad to know a little more about you….Navy…..salt……and a saint in the Bride of Christ. So blessed to know you and Him….Jesus.

    My training is far from the Navy to be sure…..was trained in fashion design and now sew wedding gowns/bridesmaids dresses/alterations on everything…including repairing ATV (four wheelers) seats. Also do a bit of design work on the side. Currently sewing on memory bears for a dear sister in Christ whose mother passed away when she was a teenager. She delivered her mother’s wedding gown and some special woolen coats she once wore to have special cuddly bears made for each of the daughters and all of the grandchildren. A truly special way to remember their loved one who meant so much to the daughters.

    And the cool thing was this….when she came to my home, we ‘ministered’ to one another for she loves Christ and she loves people….what a beautiful daughter of our KING! Bride of Christ…..oh how we can truly love that Jesus calls us out as His own! Praise Him in His sanctuary….which is everywhere!!!

    So dear Amos, thank-you for understanding my misunderstanding and making light of it instead of throwing it back in my face. The precious fruits of God’s Spirit live in you and you so eloquently displayed that here today.

    Now you, Amos…..made my day!

    God be with you…Blessings!

    Like

  85. Katy

    Cool…
    “was trained in fashion design and now sew wedding gowns/bridesmaids dresses/alterations on everything…”

    My Mom “was trained in fashion design” also.
    She could draw the design before sewing it.

    She did lots of work on
    “wedding gowns/bridesmaids dresses/alterations” too.

    That skill requires quite a talent. Good for you.

    When I was young my Mom shopped at lots of Rummage Sales…
    (Used clothing sales for fund raising, at churches, Boy Scouts, etc.)

    I might have worn second hand clothes…

    But, with a few straight pins here and there…
    A few chalk marks and a quick run through that Singer Sewing Machine…

    Those second hand clothes always fit well. 😉

    And – “God be with you…Blessings!”

    Like

  86. Elle

    Thanks for sharing your story.
    Sounds familiar. Oy Vey!!! 😦

    I understand, and am with you when you say…
    “Our family has chosen not to return to church.”

    I now say it this way…
    I have chosen NOT to return to the…
    501 (c) 3, Non-Profit, Tax $ Deductible, Religious $ Corporation…
    That the IRS calls church.

    As one of His Disciples, should WE, His Kids, call an IRS corporation…
    The Church of God?

    NOPE…

    I love being a part of “The Body of Christ,” The Church.

    Where – The Scriptures say…
    The “ONE” Leader, The “ONE” Teacher, The “ONE” Shepherd, IS…

    {{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}

    Like

  87. Elle

    Browsed your blog and enjoyed your writings.

    Especially…

    “It’s a New Dawn”

    “Right now, I just feel at peace with Him.
    When I was at church, it was all about serving the church
    and dealing with toxic people
    and keeping up with whatever unwritten rules I had broken.
    With God, I am free to just be me.
    I don’t have to force myself to be an extrovert.
    God loves me as I am.
    He meets me where I am at.
    He likes the person I am and made me this way.”

    The pain caused by the screwy-louie “church leadership” cabal…
    Stinketh…

    But, when you can believe, and write…
    With God, I am free to just be me.
    God loves me as I am.

    You’ve come a long way…

    The liberty to “just be me,” is pretty much worth it all. 🙂

    AHHHH – Freedom…

    2 Cor 3:1
    Now the Lord is that Spirit:
    and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

    Like

  88. Elle,

    “Women’s ministry crap”.

    This statement shows insight into the way things are in the Sunday Religious Social Clubs.

    Forced religious activities.

    THE ministry.

    “I’m called to full time ministry”.

    No, you’re not.

    You’re speaking Christianese.

    Every single believer is called to ‘minister’. It is simply SERVICE!

    Elle. Smash plates in secret if you must. The anger is justified. Jesus turned over tables.

    Keep your eyes on Jesus.

    He is Everything

    Like

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