Tullian Tchividjian is Back, Fully Endorsed by His Pastor, Kevin Labby

Tullian Tchividjian, Pastor Kevin Labby, Liberate Network, Repentance, Clergy Sex Abuse, Restoration


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The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to you shepherds of Israel who only take care of yourselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock? You eat the curds, clothe yourselves with the wool and slaughter the choice animals, but you do not take care of the flock. Ezekiel 34:1-3

***

I have a disappointing update on Tullian Tchividjian. To recap events, I am posting an excerpt from an earlier post:

In June, Pastor Tullian Tchividjian resigned as lead pastor of Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida. Here is part of the original statement Tchividjian released to the Washington Post from June:

I resigned from my position at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church today due to ongoing marital issues. As many of you know, I returned from a trip a few months back and discovered that my wife was having an affair. Heartbroken and devastated, I informed our church leadership and requested a sabbatical to focus exclusively on my marriage and family. As her affair continued, we separated. Sadly and embarrassingly, I subsequently sought comfort in a friend and developed an inappropriate relationship myself. Last week I was approached by our church leaders and they asked me about my own affair. I admitted to it and it was decided that the best course of action would be for me to resign (Source).

 

Last month, mid-February, Tullian Tchividjian tweeted the following:

 

kl2

 

Here is the statement from the Board of Directors at Liberate Network:

Dear Friends:

It is with much excitement that we announce the relaunch of LIBERATE.

As many of you know, LIBERATE was founded in 2011 by Tullian Tchividjian as a resource ministry whose mission was to connect God’s inexhaustible grace to an exhausted world through books, conferences, television, radio, social media, and a variety of other mediums. Over the next several years, LIBERATE grew to become a unique and vibrant ministry.

In light of what has transpired with both Tullian and LIBERATE over the past year, you may be asking, “What will Tullian’s involvement be as LIBERATE moves forward?” Today, Tullian continues an encouraging season of rest and healing as a part of the Willow Creek Church family in Winter Springs, FL. The elders of Willow Creek Church are presently overseeing a care plan for him, one involving routine worship, prayer, fellowship, study, professional counseling, and more. The process is going remarkably well, and we are very encouraged by his honesty, humility, repentance, and commitment to healing.

Our prayerful hope and expectation is that Tullian will join us fully in this great work one day. In the meantime (and in keeping with his care plan) he is presently on sabbatical from the board of the Liberate Network.

Thankfully, the Liberate Network is ultimately about the message of the gospel, not any particular messenger, and so we’re moving forward together. To God’s glory, we look forward to the Liberate Network sharing the good news of God’s inexhaustible grace to an exhausted world for many years to come.

Please be sure to connect with us on Facebook (facebook.com/LiberateNetwork) and Twitter (@LiberateNetwork) for exciting news and ministry content.

Sincerely,

Board of Directors
Liberate Network, Inc

Dr. Chris Crawford, M.D. – Partner, Dallas Associated Dermatologists
Dallas, TX

Mrs. Barbara Juliani – Editor, New Growth Press
Philadelphia, PA

Rev. Matt Popovits – Lead Pastor, Our Savior New York
New York, NY

Rev. Kevin Labby – Lead Pastor, Willow Creek Church
Winter Springs, FL

Mr. Peter Ouda, J.D. – Peter Ouda Law
Somerville, NJ

Ms. Lana Trombly
Ft. Lauderdale, FL

Mr. Dwayne Williams – Executive Vice-President, Frontline Insurance
Winter Springs, FL

Ms. Catherine Wyatt – Vice President of Development, Key Life Network
Winter Springs, FL

Rev. Dr. Paul F.M. Zahl – Retired Episcopal minister and author
Winter Garden, FL


Notice who is listed above?  Rev. Kevin Labby is Tullian’s new pastor.

This tweeter had an appropriate response:

 

Here is a tweet from the Liberate Twitter account – a timely tweet promoting a quote by Tullian Tchividjian:

 

 

On the following tweet, we see a speaking opportunity for Tullian Tchividjian:

 

And here is a live (sold out) speaking event this weekend (already concluded at the time of this post):

 

***

Pastor Kevin Labby gives Tchividjian his pastoral blessing by posting this tweet:

 

Here’s my beef:

 

 

I don’t want to call it an affair because Tullian Tchividjian was in a position of trust.  In Florida, it appears there could be legal ramifications for someone who has sex when they are in a professional relationship with a client, in this case, congregant:

 

Florida 491.0112(1): “sexual misconduct with a client or former client when the professional relationship was terminated primarily for the purpose of engaging in sexual contact”

There are two fractured families that we know of because of the clergy sex abuse, emotional abuse, and spiritual abuse. However, the whole congregation put their trust in their pastor, and for Tchividjian to be preaching Christ, the gospel, and grace from the pulpit, while engaging with another woman in an emotional, physical, spiritual, and sexual way, is harmful to the Body of Christ. It takes time to get over that kind of unfaithfulness. This is especially difficult for individuals who are already struggling with trust issues with people in authority.

While Pastor Labby is currently the pastor of his own flock, which now includes Tullian Tchividjian as congregant, did he consider the hurting flock Tullian left behind at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church when he started tweeting about Tullian?  Was he sensitive to the ongoing struggles of Tullian’s own family, the “other woman’s” family?   . . . or was getting Tullian Tchividjian back in the speaking circuit his primary goal?

I question the wisdom of Kevin Labby as pastor. What is in it for Labby to have Tullian Tchividjian speaking again?  Or Tchividjian’s involvement in Liberate Network – the group in which Labby is on the Board of Directors?

I have seen true repentance. I have witnessed the fruit of true repentance:

True repentance shows the utmost concern for victims who were harmed.

The victims are the primary focus. Abusers who fully repent willingly forfeit their rights because they will do anything to help victims recover.

We do not see that displayed here. Why do I say that? Because a pastor who understood the full extent of their sin and abuse would not put themselves in a teaching position. Speaking at events is a teaching position. It is a trusted position for leaders. Using social media as a platform to his 108,000 Twitter followers is akin to a teaching position.

For crying out loud, even his Twitter handle has “pastor” on it:

kl4.JPG

 

My favorite response I read a while back comes from Christine Pack of Sola Sisters fame:

 “My summer pedicure lasted longer than his so-called repentance/restoration season.“ (Source)

 

Update:  The speaking event was held at Spring Hills Community Church, a sold out event.

Here is the event summary (which may be too small to read in the image above):

Bestselling author Tullian Tchividjian is convinced our exhausted world needs a fresh encounter with God’s inexhaustible grace—His one-way love. Sadly, however, Christianity is perceived as being a vehicle for good behavior and clean living—and the judgments that result from them—rather than the only recourse for those who have failed over and over and over again. Tchividjian convincingly shows that Christianity is not about good people getting better. If anything, it is good news for bad people coping with their failure to be good.

 

111 comments on “Tullian Tchividjian is Back, Fully Endorsed by His Pastor, Kevin Labby

  1. Just beat the grace, love, mercy drums loudly enough and the crowds will swoon and flock in. This is not the church of the Lord Jesus Christ. This is celebrity showcase, corporate big money, giant narcissistic egos, and one big joke in the eyes of the non-Christian world. It is disgusting.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. “I’m back!” Of course we cheered when cousin Eddie (Randy Quaid) said that as he did in the alien mother ship. But when guys like this and Mark Driscoll reappear “onstage” (and make no mistake, that is what their “pulpits” are – a stage) no genuine, thinking Christian is going to cheer. The Apostle Paul rebuked the Corinthians (1 Cor 5) for their arrogance. Why? Because they allowed a wicked man in their midst and boasted about how gracious they were. And that is precisely what we have here in these “churches.” Arrogance.

    Liked by 6 people

  3. It’s funny about grace and the church, I have never received any to be honest. It was always required one needs to be in possession of a soul to warrant grace. If I learned one thing in the evangelical industry is that I don’t have one of those, a soul that is. So grace and restoration are merely carrots held out so when one bites they can be beaten back down. I get that, well actually I don’t but I should. There is a tiered plan for restoration, which is geared towards one earning power for the franchise and that is made clear.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Sorry, I’m not buying the pessimism here, and choose to believe that God is as much at work in restoring TT as He was removing him from ministry. I’m glad he’s back in the saddle, trust that he’s been humbled, is repentant, and that God has moved through the Spirit, people, the board of Liberate, etc., to restore–everyone. I’d rather be a fool for trusting in someone like this than a person who laid on a burden that wasn’t deserved.

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  5. Doesn’t the Bible say that a dude who has an affair is disqualified from being a preacher period? Or no?

    Regardless…. Thanks again, Christian culture, for making my decision to start having sex prior to marriage with the first steady boyfriend I get again no big deal. You guys will overlook adultery, so a little fornication between two singles is obviously not such a big deal.

    Liked by 2 people

  6. Ken: You said:”Sorry, I’m not buying the pessimism here, and choose to believe that God is as much at work in restoring TT as He was removing him from ministry.”

    So God removed him from ministry? Really? How about TT removing himself from ministry.

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  7. Hi Tom. Thanks for reading my comment, and responding! I see the hand of God at work whenever a church is protected, and a pastor/leader, etc., reproved. God doesn’t always accomplish that in a way that makes sense to me, or that allows me to see the intricacies and circumstances of all the hearts involved, but I do see Him at work, in both removing, and restoring.

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  8. @Ken Garrett

    Where I disagree with you is that you seem to equate grounds for forgiveness and restoration to fellowship with grounds for restoration to a place of trust and responsibility. Being adopted as a child of God, and even being restored to fellowship following transgression, may be based on unmerited favor, but one must be qualified before being entrusted with a place of responsibility. See e.g. 1 Tim 3:1-7.

    It may be pointed out that Paul was a great sinner before he was made an apostle. The difference, however, is that Paul’s great sin did not occur while he was a believer–much less during his tenure as an apostle.

    While we may suppose that Tchividjian’s fall has not been so profound as to render him irredeemable, it may nevertheless be that it behooves all to be careful lest one be restored to a position of trust and responsibility where there is good cause for concern that the following verses apply, even if only in the realm of practical effect in terms of ministry fruit, as opposed to personal soteriological finality:

    For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned. (Hebrews 6:7-8 ESV)

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  9. I’m not sure if everyone was able to see the description of the 2-day event in which Tullian spoke at Spring Hills Community Church. Here it is:

    Bestselling author Tullian Tchividjian is convinced our exhausted world needs a fresh encounter with God’s inexhaustible grace—His one-way love. Sadly, however, Christianity is perceived as being a vehicle for good behavior and clean living—and the judgments that result from them—rather than the only recourse for those who have failed over and over and over again. Tchividjian convincingly shows that Christianity is not about good people getting better. If anything, it is good news for bad people coping with their failure to be good.

    I will update the post.

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  10. “Bestselling author Tullian Tchividjian is convinced our exhausted world needs a fresh encounter with God’s inexhaustible grace—His one-way love. Sadly, however, Christianity is perceived as being a vehicle for good behavior and clean living—and the judgments that result from them—rather than the only recourse for those who have failed over and over and over again. Tchividjian convincingly shows that Christianity is not about good people getting better. If anything, it is good news for bad people coping with their failure to be good. ”

    Don’t you love these write-ups? Great marketing here.

    Years ago, my mom knew a guy who wrote glurge for Guideposts or some similar Christian magazine. He was not even a believer. But he knew the formula.

    Don’t get me wrong. I do believe there is forgiveness for every failure repented of. But there are also consequences. I agree it looks like cheap grace. I believe it will have the affect of encouraging cheap grace in the minds of followers. But they will find it’s “do as I say, not as I do.”

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  11. Hi Gary @ 9:09… I understand your application of a biblical understanding of how exactly, and when, a person is “restored to fellowship.” However, it is not my fellowship that TT is/isn’t being restored to, since I don’t go to his church, he’s not my pastor, and I’ve never met the man. It’s probably not your church either–and since Paul’s admonitions about the restoration process are all, without exception, written to actual, local churches, dealing with very specific, local issues (cf. 1 Cor 5, 6, 2 Tim 1, etc.) it’s a bit of a theological/exegetical stretch to claim a “restoration to fellowship” issue here. What exactly does “fellowship” with a pastor look like, when you’re (like me) in Oregon? Shall we start clicking on his website again? Or, stop clicking? (I highly doubt any of us have sent him money, so I’ll leave that issue aside…) In truth, all we’re left with is either to grant him kind words sent out into cyberspace, usually addressed to people who mostly agree with us, most of the time, or unkind words, again, sent out in cyberspace. That’s cheap, costless quasi-engagement. Is is just because the internet now exists, and we are privy to the events in other churches, thousands of miles away, that we have claimed the right to treat other churches’ business and other Christians’ issues–as if they are our own, or as if we are in some sort of position of granting or withholding restoration? I don’t think so…
    So my point is, I highly doubt that any negative information about TT is coming from an unbiased source–say, a friend of his, so I believe my role is to learn from the situation as I best can read it, withhold judgment until I personally have a conversation with all of the parties involved, (of which it’s safe to say I won’t be doing that), and look to my own life, house, and ministry to continue the onward stumble of faithfulness, being careful, lest I myself fall!

    Liked by 1 person

  12. Frankly, I could not possibly care less about Tullian Tchividjian. Gothard, Wilson, Piper, JD Hall: who cares. None of them matter. The modern church is one giant reality TV show, and I am not interested at all. F**k these people.

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  13. Seneca:

    What was insightful about it? Is your “amazing grace” because TT is a man? Would you be so grace filled if this was a woman christian leader??

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  14. In this whole mess, his former church was harmed. They are still without a pastor. What would full restoration look like to a harmed church? How about his worldwide audience? Wouldn’t there be something more said about the harm and pain he has caused? The focus seems to be on him and not victims. This is a typical pattern we see in abuse cases.

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  15. JA, what does “have their faith intact” even look like? Does that mean “believe what they are told unequivocally without question and feel compelled to make reality align with their beliefs, lest they feel sad”? Because if that’s what we’re meaning here, I don’t even agree that that is a healthy outlook.

    People who live in ignorance should be disillusioned. People who truly believe that “Christian” leadership is somehow above fault should be disabused of that notion. The world is flawed. Get used to it, folks. Otherwise, you may as well join the Catholic Church and buy into the notion that the Pope is divine. Why is that any less ridiculous than believing that a pastor should be “above reproach”?

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  16. Ken – your response was wise. But we are humans and humans care about one another. We hate it when others are hurt. It makes us cringe. We may have friends at one of these churches. Maybe we have family. With today’s world, we have family and friends that live many places. We want people to behave like we wish they would. So we vent about their sins. Maybe it’s called gossiping. Hard to say on this one. When we hear of pastors abusing their positions, it hurts us to our very core. Maybe we have this false idea that pastors should be above that, but they aren’t. I speak from experience after seeing one too many ministers fall into sin and corruption. We think that these men are preaching the gospel to us and really they are no better than us. It never gets easier seeing these things happen. What we really want is these men and women to leave the ministry. Get the appropriate care they need. Reconcile with God. But we don’t want to see them anytime soon back in the ministry. Makes us doubt their repentance. We are still human and we err, but but we can still be forgiven.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. @Ken Garrett:

    I’d rather be a fool for trusting in someone like this than a person who laid on a burden that wasn’t deserved.

    People like you are the reason why Donald Trump, Bernie Madoff, and Benny Hinn are successful. Good luck with that. Let me know if you have $10,000 you’d like to invest, I’d be happy to help you with that.

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  18. Thank you Ken for your thoughtful response of 1:37 PM. I see your point about Paul having addressed particular persons and groups of people with whom he was in relationship. The difference is that, in Paul’s time, the scandal of the few impacted only a few. We live in times where the lines between local and universal are significantly blurred. You appear to recognize as much yourself (although you also appear to be dismissive of the fact of our connectedness in view of its relative thinness). The misconduct of a Tullian Tchividjian, or Bill Gothard scandalizes a nation and probably even, to some extent, the world at large. If nobody will speak out, if nobody will say this is wrong, if nobody will will stand up and say that a very public administration of cheap grace and restoration to ministry is simply wrong, how many hundreds and thousands may come to despise the Faith, along with our Lord in whom we place our faith?

    If all I am able to do is make a few aware that they are not alone in thinking that much of what goes by the name of Christianity is anything but acceptable, and if I may thereby encourage even one or two to look past the charlatans, wolves, hypocrites, and snakes–that they might see our Lord–then that is what I will do.

    Liked by 2 people

  19. much of what goes by the name of Christianity is anything but acceptable

    Much of what goes by the name of Christianity is a con job perpetrated by cynical, evil slimebags. It’s no more Christian than a Ponzi scheme is a retirement plan.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. Dash, you ask “[W]hat does ‘have their faith intact’ even look like?” It may be that all who are not in utter despair have an intact faith. It is just a question of faith in what or whom. The person, thing or cause that is the focus of my thoughts, pursuits, time spent, advocacy, hopes, aspirations, trust, willing obedience, expenditures, love and pursuit of recognition, meaning, purpose, and reward is the person, thing or cause in which I have imposed my faith. My view (and I understand you may disagree) is that faith as so defined is idolatrous if not placed in Jesus.

    I am an idolator. Long years have been spent not even seeing the idolatry involved in the pursuit of success in my profession, financial success, prestige, and such like. The biggest stumbling block had to do with the way I invested my my thoughts, pursuits, time spent, advocacy, hopes, aspirations, trust, willing obedience, expenditures, love and pursuit of recognition, meaning, purpose, and reward in “the local new testament church.” Preachers demand my idolatrous devotion to themselves and their organizations, and I too willingly gave it.

    Well, I’m being called to supper, so I will just close by saying that I have in a very real sense had to walk away from organized church so that I could pursue Jesus. I simply cannot have faith in both.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. It may be that all who are not in utter despair have an intact faith.

    So being in “utter despair” is some kind of a sin? Gee thanks, thanks a lot. This is why I utterly reject modern evangelical Christianity. Kick people in the face when they’re already down, just like Jesus would have done! Idiots.

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  22. Jesus did not kick people in the face when they are down. Kathi’s selection for SSB Sunday gathering showed how Jesus was compassionate towards the woman with the issue of blood – – that his heart went out to her. If there is anyone who cares, it’s Christ. If there’s anyone who understands Pharisees, it’s Christ. If there’s anyone who understands abuse, it’s Christ. He gives me hope when no one else does.

    Liked by 1 person

  23. People like Ken Garrett who claim to be “Christians” need to stop being so stupid about the way they treat other people.

    Matthew 7:22 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

    I mean come on, guys. It’s like you haven’t even read your own Bibles, or else you’re simply too willful, too arrogant, or too stupid to see how it applies to you. At the very least, learn some manners.

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  24. No, Dash. Being in utter despair is no sin. It is a condition. If you you are saying you so suffer, I am sorry. Both that you suffer and that I said to you what appears to have been harmful.

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  25. I think I’d make a GREAT preacher by the standards of the modern church. All I’d need to do is dress up real nice and stand on a stage on Sunday morning spouting a bunch of useless crap platitudes based on my own selfish twisted interpretations of the Bible and collect a fat offering to pay myself a huge salary with and use guilt to control people.

    Hell, I can’t think of an easier gig. I’m in the wrong profession. Excuse me, I’m going to go find an internet diploma mill so I can get my D.D. degree and get started on my new 6-figure career. Or maybe I’ll just play it like Doug Wilson and not even bother with a degree. First I need to throw up though, my lunch isn’t sitting well.

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  26. And then, maybe I can start my own seminary!! Yeah, that’s it. That’d be a HUGE cash cow. I could specialize in recruiting pedophiles and then protecting them when they get caught, and use extortion and veiled threats of violence to shut their victims up when they go public. Fantastic. But first I think I’ll gouge my eyes out with a grapefruit spoon, Jesus said something about logs in my eyes and I want to be right with Scripture.

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  27. Gary, I’m past the point of caring what anyone says about anything. Thanks for the gesture though. I’m just pointing out that you might want to think about what you say and how it comes across. Whatever.

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  28. Ken Garrett is not stupid, Dash. You both are survivors of some awful stuff. We all tend to respond out of our own experiences and I have a hunch that if you two had the opportunity to sit down and talk with each other, you would see that you are not all that different. I know Ken well enough that I’m sure he’d have coffee with you if you came to Portland. He’s that kind of guy.

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  29. That’s fine JA. I don’t know the guy so I can’t speak to his general character. All I can go by is what he posted on this page, and giving Tullian the benefit of the doubt is precisely the sort of wrong thinking that allows abusive preachers to have a platform in the first place. We need to stop giving people in power the benefit of the doubt and start requiring them to earn an appropriate level of trust.

    Liked by 1 person

  30. A Facebook friend of mine just shared a post of Chuck DeGroat with his thoughts on recent quick restorations to ministry of some prominent evangelical and Reformed megachurch pastors. He finds the process doesn’t treat sin with much seriousness.

    You might find my responses of interest. Here’s the research side of it, and I’ll add some links to practical materials I developed in a follow-up comment.

    As one exposed to Lutheran, Reformed, and Anabaptist traditions, I find your post a helpful analysis — thank you for posting it, Chuck. Much to continue reflecting upon here, because the issue of “restoration” has emerged as a crucial issue in the wider Christian community.

    As a student of, and research writer about, spiritual abuse, it seems we’ve missed a theological and practical step in what is supposedly a restoration process for leaders whose character/actions currently disqualify them from these roles. We seem to equate giving such leaders grace with a guarantee of their transformation — and skip right over the required process of rebuilding character and re-earning of trust. I do not see where grace negates the necessity of character-based trust as a qualification for ongoing leadership. If a repentant leader demonstrates trustworthiness over time, then perhaps the pulpit can be restored; the pulpit is not the place where trustworthiness becomes restored.

    The celebrityship connection with spiritual abuse seems to have become far more prominent in recent years. I’m finding in my research that it cuts across all theological stances and related denominations. With it, the “abuse survivor communities” have increasingly documented the situations and have been calling out high-profile pastors, seminary professors, authors, etc. for abuse of religious position and power through manipulation, sexually harassment, verbal and emotional abuse, misuse of church discipline, and more.

    In the past four or five years, at least five civil lawsuits have been filed — in part because the churches, denominations, and/or non-profits involved with the celebrity leaders accused of spiritual abuse have refused to address the allegations and evidence of disqualified leaders. In some situations, these leaders continue on without interruption … and with apparent harm to whole new waves of victims.

    And that leads to a what I believe is a crucial point about “grace” and restoration. Healing is based on demonstration, not mere declaration. From what I’ve seen, restoration not based on long-enough demonstration of repentance and journeying along the road of transformation ends up harming others. So, is this “grace” true if others continue to be hurt? Or is it a counterfeit?

    I am not for a formulaic law about how long in a transformative process of repentance is long enough before restoration is warranted. But I am also not for a flimsy grace that really sees nothing restored except for someone’s position and power.

    Liked by 1 person

  31. If you’re interested in some relational and organizational guidelines on restoration that I developed, it’s in this section of a series I did on Responsibility for Spiritual Abuse. This came out of long-term studies on organizational systems and spiritual abuse, and while writing about Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church in 2014.

    https://futuristguy.wordpress.com/2014/09/20/responsibility-for-spiritual-abuse-part-3d/

    [MODERATOR NOTE: Edited to correct the link.]

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  32. Brad – you said it perfectly about grace and restoration. We want to see the real fruit of the restoration. Even though it has been many years since the fall of Jimmy Swaggert, I still cannot watch him on tv. I know many still like him, but I can’t do it. I used to watch the Coral Ridge Church on tv with their beautiful choir. Perhaps many of us did. It was what I had on the tv while getting dressed for church on Sunday mornings. It is hard to see congregations destroyed by the sins of the minister and his family.

    Liked by 1 person

  33. I had a gander at the Coral Ridge website. Rob Pacienza is currently serving as something called “executive pastor”, which I didn’t know existed in PCA polity. I’m guessing he doesn’t want the position of senior pastor and is still praying they find somebody else. I really wish they wouldn’t whitewash their history tab and would instead be fully honest as to why they are currently looking for a new senior pastor.

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  34. Often Christians will say to those who leave the faith (or refuse the faith) that they did so because they “just want to sin.” Now, that’s almost certainly not the case, but that is the accusation. However, the deal TT has here is much more the license to sin. He gets to go back to business as usual; you need to never suggest it might not be appropriate; and he can use his prior sin as a marketing tool to further his career. It’s “win” pretty much all around for him at this point.

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  35. From Gary:

    The difference is that, in Paul’s time, the scandal of the few impacted only a few. We live in times where the lines between local and universal are significantly blurred.

    Especially when guys like Tullian actively seek out audiences that are national, or even international, rather than local. With so many people listening to him, why should those people not be allowed an opinion as to whether he’s ready for another position of trust?

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  36. Dear Ken,

    Sorry, I’m not buying the pessimism here, and choose to believe that God is as much at work in restoring TT as He was removing him from ministry.

    Even though, as JA points out, Tullian might have violated state law?

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  37. Off topic, but go check out Natalie Greenfield’s new video at her blog. It’s a talk she gave to a class at the University of Idaho about her experiences last week.

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  38. Hmmm?

    “However, the whole congregation put their trust in their pastor…”

    Well, that’ll teach im… 😉

    Maybe this congregation shoulda read the Bible before Hiring a pastor.

    In the Bible…
    Did any congregations Hire, or Fire, one of His Disciples as a pastor?

    ++++++++++

    Jer 17:5
    Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man…

    Ps 118:8-9
    It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
    It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.

    Ps 146:3
    Put not your trust in princes,
    nor in the son of man, in whom there is NO help.

    Isa 30:1
    Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD,
    that take counsel, but NOT of me;

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  39. Serving Kids in Japan MARCH 7, 2016 @ 7:08 AM
    Well, I suppose if there is a concern that the state laws of Florida were broken, Julie Anne can contact the government officials of that state and file a report. I really don’t know what to say other than that–

    Like

  40. Gary W MARCH 6, 2016 @ 5:25 PM
    Thank you for interacting with my comments, Gary! I think we’re in complete agreement of the horror and damage done by an unrepentant, sinning leader, and although we might wrangle about whether TT could/should be deemed “abusive” really depends on our individual understandings of the word. And while his sin and weak (at least in public) response to it has certainly hurt him, his family, church, etc., we probably could have a debate as to the degree that you and I out here in cyber-land have truly been “abused” or damaged by it. It hasn’t made any real difference to my life, but I admit, that’s just me, here in Oregon.
    I wonder if the very fact of a pastor sinning, falling, denying, justifying, etc., and then entering a process of restoration that some/many find deficient might serve as a trigger to survivors of spiritual abuse (like me) that tends to provoke a stronger response than, say, finding out a senator or congressman has had an affair, betrayed his/her spouse, etc. It hits closer to home for survivors, I think.
    As for the very assertion that a larger (even nation or world-wide) group has a role in implementing restoration processes (which others have suggested in this blog), which is really a process of church discipline (a very loaded word for survivors who have had it applied to them in a non or sub-biblical manner) –I’m not ready to sign off on the idea. I’ve always felt the best “discipline” of a errant or unrepentant leader, and certainly an abusive leader, is for everyone to walk away, stop giving money, stop visiting his/her websites, stop reading their blogs and twitters, etc., and deprive them of the very means that has enabled them to continue to prosper in their condition. I haven’t explored this story to the degree that would allow me with a good conscience to respond that way to TT, and suggest that perhaps we observers might ourselves benefit from the same demand that many of us are making of TT: spend more time observing, listening, and seeing how God is at work.
    Long reply, sorry! Thanks, Gary!

    Like

  41. Good stuff Ken. I perceive that yours is a shepherd’s heart. Me, not so much. Perhaps the most I can hope for is the satisfaction that is promised to those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. You, as a peacemaker, can anticipate being recognized as a son of God.

    But what do you think? Would it possibly be appropriate for one who is not a member/participant in a church organization to write a polite letter. The letter could describe how a particular situation involving that church organization is affecting the letter writer, and how it is perceived that the situation is affecting the Kingdom, Body and lost world. Would it possibly also be appropriate to also suggest what is perceived to be a better, more fruitful, course of action than what is being reported in the media and cyberspace? Not that I’m terribly excited at the prospect of writing such a letter myself, I freely admit.

    Like

  42. Brad

    You write @ MARCH 6, 2016 @ 10:52 PM…
    “I do NOT see where grace
    negates the necessity of character-based trust
    as a qualification for ongoing leadership.
    If a repentant leader demonstrates trustworthiness over time,
    then perhaps the pulpit can be restored;
    the pulpit is NOT the place where trustworthiness becomes restored.

    ++++++++++

    NOT your fault, but…
    Over the years I have developed quite a heart dis…ease…
    When I hear the words, Trust, together with…
    Leader, Leadership, The Pulpit.

    I break out with either fits of un-controllable laughter…
    When a Leader* suggests they are to be **Trusted. (Never again.)

    Or, great sobs of sorrow that I believed, and supported…
    “Today’s Abusive Religious System” that has Leaders,
    Who should NEVER be Trusted. 😦

    And, Today, it’s ALL because of that damn Pulpit.
    Whoever gots, and controls The Pulpit. Gots the Power…

    I know what the problem is. And the ultimate answer to the problem. 😉

    It’s the “Pulpit.” See, Pul… Pit… Puuuullll…. Piiiitttt…. A funny word. Yes?

    See, The “Pulpit” is really from the “Pit.”
    It’s from Satan, and it’s job is to “Pull” Pastors into the “Pit.”
    He has been quite successful convincing pastors The Pulpit. is theirs…
    Along with, the Power, Profit, and Prestige, that comes with The Pulpit.

    Just get rid of The Pulpit and the Pulpiteers…
    And the Prevailing Problem of Abusive Pastors is Prevented. 😉

    In the Bible…
    Are there any of His Disciples who became…
    Paid, Proffessional, Pastors, in Pulpits, Preaching, to People, in Pews?

    Like

  43. Hi Gary

    Oh NO…
    Jesus has also left you with His P’s… 😉

    John 14:27
    P’s I leave with you, MY P’s I give unto you:
    not as the world giveth, give I unto you.
    Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

    Really liked what you said…
    “… I have in a very real sense
    had to walk away from organized church
    so that I could pursue Jesus.
    I simply cannot have faith in both.”

    Me Too…

    Like

  44. @ Gary W, 9:30am: Wow, Gary! Seems to me communicating like that would be very powerful and kindhearted, esp. as treated like any other type of confrontation in a faith setting (ie, private, direct, humble, etc.) As for the propriety of reaching out, yes, I feel a genuine desire to communicate, esp. in respect and humility, should always be acted on. I imagine the response you received (or didn’t) from such a letter would gain you a much deeper insight into the situation, too.
    I appreciate the discussion, Gary!

    Like

  45. I can understand the sold out speaking engagement. People want to be fed on easy believism. Hey, if a pastor can have an affair…er…commit adultery and then be back under the shining lights, displaying himself publicly on stage in less than a year – then the thinking goes: maybe I can fool around and be back in the good graces of my church in no time at all. Embezzle the congregation? No problem. In less than two years you can make a come back and start your own church (sic). Commit adultery with a parishioner? No problem. You can be back on the speaking circuit in less than a year! The possibilities are endless! And of course, it’s all about GRRRRRRAAAAACCCCCEEEE!!!!

    Like

  46. Actually…it’s all about MONEY. These supposed pastors are not interested in going out and finding a……hear it…..real job. Instead, they reinvent themselves and hoodwink the gullible masses to toss their hard-earned money at them. Hey, that’s a good con-game going there.

    Like

  47. “The modern church is one giant reality TV show.”

    Dash, you are right! Now if only the masses of gullible Christians would come to understand that, then maybe…just maybe these charlatans could be put out of business. I certainly won’t be tossing any money their way.

    Liked by 1 person

  48. “These two Pastors said one to another:
    Pastor unto Pastor o’er the world is Brother…”

    Like

  49. The Presbyterian Church in America’s Book of Church Order, 6th Edition, states:

    34.8 A minister under indefinite suspension from his office or deposed for scandalous conduct shall not be restored, even on the deepest sorrow for his
    sin, until he shall exhibit for a considerable time such an eminently exemplary, humble and edifying life and testimony as shall heals the wound made by his scandal. A deposed minister shall in no case be restored until it shall appear that the general sentiment of the Church is strongly in his favor, and demands his restoration; and then only by the court inflicting the censure, or with that court’s consent. The removal of deposition requires a three-fourths (3/4) vote of the court inflicting the censure, or a three-fourths (3/4) vote of the court to which the majority of the original court delegates that authority.

    *The “court” referenced above is the PCA court, which could be either the session, the (specific) Presbytery, or the General Assembly.

    In cases when the teaching elder is the one under discipline, the jurisdiction first falls on the Presbytery and then to the General Assembly. Since the session is at the local church body level, it does not have jurisdiction over the discipline of a suspended or deposed teaching elder (i.e., Tullian). Therefore, restoration to any office is not determined by the local church or any single elder.

    In other words, only the specific Presbytery can pronounce TT fit for ministry; did they?

    Like

  50. As someone who originally was enamored of this guy and his grace message… and didn’t see what was missing until about 2011-2012, two to three years into it, this whole thing disgusts me. He must have highlighted Romans 6 with a black sharpie.

    Like

  51. No, he wasn’t under discipline, because apparently even though he cheated on his wife too he had grounds to divorce her 8 weeks after all this crap became public. The presbytery fell down on the job, brushed their golden boy’s sins under the rug, but what’s new.

    Like

  52. Dash, 100% feeling you.

    The concept of TT being ‘repentant’ in order to go back to ‘THE Ministry’ (whatever that is) is just so ridiculous to me.

    It assumes that the whole production has anything to do with Jesus to begin with.

    I stand ‘across the road’ from Christianity… Faith fully intact. Jesus has nothing to do with Christianity I’m quite sure.

    How on earth could John 4 have ANYTHING to do with “churches” and/or “pastors”.

    What deception.

    Christians today are following men, not God.

    Two years away from the institutions is enough time to see it all for what it is.

    Bait and switch.

    Like

  53. Question for the “pastors” reading…

    Would you guide people like a shepherd, for no pay?

    If not… Maybe you’re the hireling and not the shepherd you think you are.

    No member of the body should charge another for use of gifts.

    Twisting Paul to justify salaried professional pastors is insane.

    Like

  54. You’re so right, Julie Anne. I’m resting in the fact that indeed the truth will come out . I myself, along with others whom I call friends are personally connected to/affected by this whole story. Thank you for caring and looking out.

    Liked by 1 person

  55. I think that is what is most troubling about this situation. There are still people hurting and trying to make sense of what happened to their pastor, their friends, their loved ones, and he’s out on the speaking circuit. Something is surely amiss here.

    Liked by 1 person

  56. His wife had an affair, but he had an inappropriate relationship. Semantics. I think every church covenant should lead with expectations of those in leadership, and with clear biblical penalties for sins committed by them, rather than dealing with leadership on a totally discretionary basis. The church is a joke. A huge flipping joke.

    Like

  57. ” I think every church covenant should lead with expectations of those in leadership”

    Churches are anxious to get people to join. I propose that somebody should prepare a model form of covenant prospective members could require church leaders to sign, individually and on behalf of their 501(c)(3) entity, before joining.

    Like

  58. Ken,

    Well, I suppose if there is a concern that the state laws of Florida were broken, Julie Anne can contact the government officials of that state and file a report.

    Excuse me? Julie Anne file a report? Why should she — or anyone else here — have to do that? Hasn’t anyone in Tullian’s church reported him? And if not, why not?

    Like

  59. Good morning Gary

    Got to thinkin bout what you said…
    “…had to walk away from Organized Church
    so that I could pursue Jesus.”

    I’m-a-thinkin Jesus wanted His Church, His Body, Organized. 😉
    Check out the Organizational Chart Jesus, and Paul, described.

    In Mat 23:10 NASB
    Jesus teaches His Disciples NOT to be called Leader.
    For you have “ONE” Leader – The Christ.
    And ALL WE, His Followers, His Ekklesia, are His Servants.

    In John 10:16 NASB
    Jesus, teaches He is The “ONE” Shepherd.
    And ALL WE, His Followers, His Ekklesia, are His Sheep.

    In John 10:27, Jesus says
    My Sheep – Hear My Voice – and – They Follow Me.

    Nice and simple, a Two Layer Organizational Chart.

    Jesus on top of the chart, The ONE Leader.
    Then, on the bottom of the chart, ALL His Followers,
    His Servants.

    Jesus on top of the chart, The ONE Shepherd.
    Then, on the bottom of the chart, ALL His Followers,
    His Sheep.
    ++++++++++

    In Col 1:18, I also like the Organizational Chart that Paul described.
    Jesus, “He is the head of the Body, the Church.” (The Ekklesia)

    Nice and simple, a Two Layer Organizational Chart.

    Jesus on top of the chart, The Head.
    Then, on the bottom of the chart, ALL His Disciples, His Body.
    ++++++++++

    Now this is the Church Organized
    Where WE, His Ekklesia, His Church, can prosper, and enjoy…
    Because in us lives…

    The ONE Shepherd The ONE Leader

    {{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}

    Like

  60. But Amos! All you are giving us is Scripture! You can’t possibly suppose that Scripture alone is sufficient. Scripture cannot be correctly understood except through proper man-made theology! If we try to read Scripture ourselves, without having it explained away, er, I mean explained to us by our intellectual superiors, all organized church authority will absolutely break down. And we all know that relationships between Christians must be organized on the basis of coercive authority–and certainly never on the basis of Love, which never demands its own way! Sheesh!!

    And no, I would never, ever, dream of being sarcastic. Or maybe I would.

    Like

  61. Gary

    Now, I have to admit, the way Jesus “organizes” His “organization” of…
    The Ekklesia of Jesus Christ, “His Body”
    Does NOT always make a lot of sense. 😉

    Do you know of any temporal organizations, religious organizations?
    Who Organize their Organization like Jesus?
    Who will openly Declare?

    1 – Those members of the organization
    which seem to be weaker – are necessary? Huh???
    2 – those members of the organization
    which we think to be LESS HONORABLE,
    on these we bestow GREATER honor.
    (I’ve never seen this in a 501 (c) 3, IRS Corporation, that the IRS calls church.)
    3 – But God composed the organization,
    having given GREATER HONOR to that part which lacks it,

    1 Corinthians 12:22-27 NKJV

    22 No, much rather, those members of the body
    which seem to be weaker are necessary.

    23 And those members of the body
    which we think to be less honorable,
    on these we bestow greater honor; and
    our unpresentable parts have greater modesty,
    24 but our presentable parts have no need.
    But God composed the body,
    having given **greater honor
    to that part which lacks it,**
    25 that there should be no schism in the body,
    but that the members should have the same care for one another.
    26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it;
    or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

    Yeah – I’m-a-thinkin – Only Jesus can build His Church – His Way.
    1 – The weaker are necessary.
    2 – Bestowing GREATER HONOR on those
    we think to be LESS HONORABLE,
    3 – God, giveing GREATER HONOR to that part which lacks it,

    I dare any temporal organizations or religious organizations
    To Organize their Organization like Jesus?

    I double dare them… 😉

    Who cudda thunk of such a way to build an organization?
    With the least of these my brethren? – But…

    {{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}

    Liked by 1 person

  62. What is with that “season” stuff? All the Calvinistas use that word, including my erstwhile boss, a textbook-case micromanaging control freak who nearly drove me off the deep end. It’s like these folks have their own weird lingo. They talk funny…not like normal people. Sorry if this is a tangential comment, but “season” always pops out at me. And since it reminds me of my former boss, it’s triggering.

    Like

  63. Ken –

    You’re certainly not a hit-and-run troll or mindless celeb worshiper based on what you write here. However, it’s not out of bounds for people to make public pronouncements about public ministries, people are quite right to say “Hey, that guy just had an affair with a parishoner, used the exposure of his sin as an opportunity to make a public disclosure of his wife’s infidelities as justification for his own infidelities (you couldn’t make me or most other guys do that sort of vicious, passive-aggressive garbage if you held a gun to our heads), and pretty well acted as a weasel, at least based on his public pronouncements. For such a guy to be thrown back up on stage under the spotlight just months later is a travesty, it’s absurd.”

    This sort of public rebuke of public figures happened repeatedly in the Bible, Paul very often named names and circumstances, and one can presume they were not all people with whom he was in some type of intimate fellowship. Additionally, the argument of “Well, it’s not affecting YOU or ME directly, ergo why should we discuss it?” seems so weak as to scarcely even merit a response. Surely you wouldn’t apply that rationale to other things, would you? (there were some people who used that rationale about 80 years ago in the western European country from which my ancestors came, and we all know the end result). Surely Jesus and Paul and Peter and James and John and myriad others didn’t take that position and only worry about what went on within their immediate sphere.

    I see an injustice, I see a wife publically exposed to justify a public figure’s sin, I see her fade into obscurity and shame, I see the husband lifted back up onto an undeserved pedestal within months, my sense of outrage shoots to the moon. You might be a great guy, Mr. Bonhomie, if JA likes you, you can’t be all that bad, but dang, man, haven’t you got a better argument?

    Liked by 1 person

  64. Question for the “pastors” reading…
    Would you guide people like a shepherd, for no pay?
    If not… Maybe you’re the hireling and not the shepherd you think you are.
    No member of the body should charge another for use of gifts.
    Twisting Paul to justify salaried professional pastors is insane.
    …………………………………………………………………………………………………..

    That’s the truth. Going back to Paul, not only did he not demand a big salary and conference honoraria and book deals with royalties and high salaries with benefits packages, he gave up all that plush lifestyle he could’ve enjoyed as the most esteemed and brilliant pharisee of his generation, he may have given up his family and friends, he gave up everything, including his health, his comfort and his life to tell people about Jesus.

    Liked by 1 person

  65. Pingback: Tullian Tchividjian restoration pulls a Hillsong Hoo-ha? | churchwatch central

  66. Yes, plenty of people: friends, congregants, family members, have all been affected in so many ways. I am disappointed in the way some things were handled … Lots of details glossed over… not enough digging…The Lord is in control. He’s seen it all. I trust that he is faithful and just.

    Like

  67. Additionally, the argument of “Well, it’s not affecting YOU or ME directly, ergo why should we discuss it?” seems so weak as to scarcely even merit a response. Surely you wouldn’t apply that rationale to other things, would you?

    Yeah, that’s kinda what I thought too, Truth Detector. It reminded me of Tim Challies’ reasoning regarding the SGM lawsuit. The logic felt flimsy and wishy-washy when I read it from him.

    Like

  68. There’s nothing strange about Springhill removing the event page from their website. The event has already happened and many church webpages remove events that have already occurred. Their facebook page has all the conference highlights.

    Like

  69. Been watching some of the back and forth on Twitter . So many defending T ( and many mean well I’m sure) but no one is asking “I wonder if that ‘friend’ he had was the only one”. And I wonder which version of events pirate Christian received from T when he ‘personally repented’

    Like

  70. Truth Detector @ 4:15pm: “…dang, man, haven’t you got a better argument?”
    No, I really don’t, sorry!
    …………………………………………………………………………………………..

    That’s fair, kind of a funny response, good sense of humor. You’re definitely not Mr. Snark or Mr. Passive Aggressive Cult Guy. No wonder JA gives you thumbs uo, I’d have a beer with you anytime. We have a difference of opinion, but fair enough, for what it’s worth, I honestly hope the guy’s the real deal, hope he understands what he did to his wife on his (startlingly temporary) way down, hope he learns from this and really is repentant and follows wherever Jesus leads, hope the “restoration team” or whatever they are was listening to Jesus rather than pure nonsense. Hope you’re right and I’m dead wrong.

    Like

  71. Keeping it anon right now because I’m closer to this than I want to admit, but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Less than 9 months and he’s back at it? I don’t care if his pastor and elders are involved – it just comes off very poorly.

    Like

  72. This has been the finest marketing strategy to restore a pastor back to the ministry. Shameful! Oh, but it’s ok because it is part of the “care plan” and GRACE!!:-(

    Liked by 1 person

  73. Honest question: Is it correct to use the term “on sabbatical” to refer to pastors who have committed adultery? I just heard an interview on the radio where Pr. Labby used the term to refer to TT?

    Liked by 1 person

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  76. JA, what is the source of the info that TT’s affair partner was a congregant?
    A good friend of mine attended the event at Spring Hills. I saw him Saturday and he was quite upset to hear about TT’s recent scandalous history. He feels mislead and intends to email this blog to the lead pastor and ask for some answers.
    I expect he will hear crickets.

    Liked by 2 people

  77. Yes. Makes it far, far worse for TT and his enablers.
    These folks are just frauds.
    Looking forward to the rest of the story coming out some day.

    Liked by 2 people

  78. Coral Ridge had just lost their beloved Pastor, this was the only Pastor they had known for eons. They were in a vulnerable state that could easily be exploited. There was a huge wedge put in place between members when Tullian came on board. He demanded that people be loyal to him. Friends and family members were divided over it. Some stayed to try and make Coral great again. Others saw the handwriting on the wall and left forming their own church. The whole thing was sad, but I think if Dr. Kennedy had mentored his second string to take over the church, and it’s ministries, his death would not have left a large vacuum where a power struggle occurred. No one would have been able to exploit the situation and manipulate members’ emotions. There is a lesson for everyone in this. If we want our churches to be safe for all members I hope we learn it well. It is sad.

    Liked by 1 person

  79. Mrs. C. —
    Thank you for that comment. We’ve seen that happen in a lot of Christian ministries. Typically when a visionary leader dies, it leaves a vacuum. And an opportunistic person who aggressively steps into place is often a bad choice (although seen as a “savior” a first).

    Succession planning with a clear message to the public on who will come next is very important, but in an effort to horde power, the egos of these older leaders cannot do it.

    I agree they have to train the next generation and be humble enough to hand over the reins.

    -Anonymous2

    Liked by 1 person

  80. Pingback: Tullian Tchividjian and Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church Discussion: “He demanded that people be loyal to him.” | Spiritual Sounding Board

  81. Pingback: Resource Bibliography on System Issues Related to the Tullian Tchividjian Situation | Spiritual Sounding Board

  82. I really would like to figure out how to avoid this problem in the future. It gets hard to keep reading these stories and seeing the hurt over and over. What is the take away lesson here that we can use for the future, or even pass down to the next generation of pew warmers? I would hate to believe that this is the new normal in the church. We just can’t keep betraying each other in the church and expect everything to be great. The church will implode.

    If my husband was an elder that knew the Pastor had an affair and covered it up, along with not disclosing the affair to the Pastor’s wife…I would have some serious trust issues with my husband, the elder. If a man is OK doing that in the church my first thought, as his wife, would be to question what in OUR marriage is he OK with covering up? If I was a member in that church, while this whole thing went on, I would have some serious thoughts about how they view women. See how this is a cancer that eats away at everything?

    Like

  83. “Typically when a visionary leader dies, it leaves a vacuum. And an opportunistic person who aggressively steps into place is often a bad choice (although seen as a “savior” a first).”

    Believers have a visionary leader, Jesus Christ.

    “Succession planning with a clear message to the public on who will come next is very important, but in an effort to horde power, the egos of these older leaders cannot do it.”

    This reminds me of the Jews who were convinced they needed a king like the Pagans had. This made God angry because He was their king. He gave them what they wanted because they did not want to be mature adults seeking His wisdom.

    Isn’t it sad that sdult believers cannot gather together to learn and fellowship with one another without someone in charge of them with a vision that God did not share with all of them.

    The reason we have charlatans is because we have bought into these systems that do nothing to help us mature as believers but keep us looking to gurus.

    Like

  84. What if the woman he had an affair with turned out to be a 17 year old youth member at his church? Does he still get all that “grace” and forgiveness poured over him by other pastors? Does he still get to be Mr. Spiritual Leader again? Christians dole out all that wonderful grace conditionally. We happen to live in time where Pastor’s are easily forgiven for putting their penis inside the vagina of another man’s wife – after all he’s only human and that sucks he got caught. No biggie, see you at your book singing! This guy is a narcissist and an ego maniac and he will keep doing what he wants to do. After all, God forgives, so why not?

    Liked by 1 person

  85. What if a woman in leadership had done what TT did? Would the elders be so lenient? Imagine someone like Joyce Meyers did something like this?! All good questions and I think we can guess at the answers. I think the churches should be held accountable for the counseling of the women, since harm is done to them, but the perp gets all the counseling perks. Pastor perps are babied and the women are discarded like trash. I don’t like his equation.

    Like

  86. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2015/09/02/pastor-of-willow-creek-presbyterian-says-church-reaction-to-hiring-tullian-tchividjian-is-overwhelmingly-positive/

    Here is a quote from Labby that answers questions:
    “I think it would be helpful and important to clarify a few things. First, the South Florida Presbytery of the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) deposed Tullian from what we Presbyterians call the office of teaching elder (what most American Christians would label “pastor”), but did so without further censure. He was not excommunicated. Since his deposition did not include excommunication, Tullian is not precluded by our church polity from serving on a PCA church staff per se. His deposition simply means that he cannot do so as a teaching elder.”

    I guess there is a bright side and a not-so-bright side. So the PCA did depose Tullian, which means that he’s not going to be a pastor in any Reformed/Presbyterian church anytime soon, and that is good. The not-so-bright side is that people like Labby are going to find out all sorts of ways to put him in positions that “use his gifts” without those positions being legally classifiable as exclusive to the office of teaching elder. Something like seminary professor, for example.

    The other somewhat positive is that the only court that can restore Tullian is the court that deposed him. I’m not sure what would be required for that restoration, since the deposition probably happened because his sin permanently disqualifies him from holding office.

    Like

  87. Another used slick snake oil salesman back in the pulpit who stands to gain from all the monies he brings in? Was he out for a minimum of two years and in hardcore counseling NOT of his choice? This is where Herb Goldberg and Susan Forward and Dr. Laura need to be their counselors and ALL THREE determine if fit to go back; people who you can’t B.S., NOT what stupid church inept leadership determines who are so unhealed themselves and that’s why all these dead ministries that SHOULD NOT EXIST! Some of the comments were righteous!

    Like

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