Misuse of Scripture, Spiritual Abuse, Spiritual Bullies, Street Evangelism, The Gospel Coalition, Tony Miano, Voddie Baucham

Disagreeing with Someone’s Opinion Makes You Like Satan?

It really is okay for you to have a differing opinion with a Christian leader!

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There is so much tension in the media regarding the Ferguson fiasco. I wish everyone could just hold up a “free hugs” sign like this young 12-yr old in Portland and it would all get better:

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Sometimes pastors put themselves in the political spotlight by commenting on popular news stories. It concerns me when pastors speak out about these issues because of their spiritual position, for the primary reason that many people will hold their opinion as gospel when it has little to do with the gospel.

We have to be careful that we don’t interpret a Christian leader’s opinion as something more than an opinion and I especially appreciate it when a pastor is humble enough to admit that his opinion is just that, an opinion.

Pastors Thabiti Anyabile and Voddie Baucham recently published articles regarding the Ferguson case at The Gospel Coalition website:

Thabiti Anyabwile – The Ferguson Grand Jury Has Given Us Our Marching Orders
and
Voddie Baucham – Thoughts on Ferguson – Baucham posted the same article on his Facebook page and as of now there are over 4,000 “likes” and 8,000 “shares.”

If you read the articles, pay attention to how these pastors come across in tone. Do they identify that the article is their opinion? That’s important.

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Now, you might think I want to make this post about the Ferguson situation. I do not. I repeat – this article is not about the Ferguson situation, but about behavior in response to the Ferguson situation. 

Take a look at this. Open air preacher, Tony Miano, clearly likes Voddie Baucham’s article. That’s fine. He’s entitled to his opinion.

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Tony Miano on Twitter   Thank you Pastor  VoddieBaucham for this article. For me  it is the definitive piece regarding  Ferguson. Nuff said. http   t.co KNvR2ZmuFZ

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However, now look at how Tony Miano goes after Thabiti Anyabwile publicly on Twitter. Keep in mind that Tony Miano has been tweeting a lot about this case, occasionally mentioning his prior job as deputy sheriff as if to bolster his words.

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Christian Janeway on Twitter    ThabitiAnyabwil  sir  this gentleman is well known for stirring up conflict. I d recommend shields up and warp 6.

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Gotta love it when Twitter Super-heroine Christian Janeway comes to the defense of Anyabwile with a warning. And kudos to Pastor Anyabwile for handling Miano’s aggressive and divisive behavior with grace.
In the following Twitter exchange, you see someone arguing with Tony Miano. Look what happens when @Cvofromthemo dares to disagree with Miano:

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Screen shot 2014-11-27 at 11.49.48 PM

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Lest you be like Satan?????  Did Tony Miano really say that?

It’s one thing to have an opinion about a political situation, it’s a whole other thing to apply your spiritual interpretation of what is going on politically and then insist that your interpretation is the only correct interpretation. It really crosses the line when someone is so convinced they are right about their interpretation that they accuse someone who doesn’t agree with you that they are like Satan. Give me a break. This is bully behavior.

Thank God Tony Miano is no pastor, but there are pastors who behave just like this. If you question them and their opinion, you may be accused of being divisive, a Jezebel, or even Satan. Watch out for spiritual bullies!

I had to laugh at this last tweet from Tony Miano:

https://twitter.com/TonyMiano/status/538019307050266625

173 thoughts on “Disagreeing with Someone’s Opinion Makes You Like Satan?”

  1. Ed, you know this isn’t a debate blog – you’ve got to drop it a few notches here. It’s about respecting individuals and their opinions, not about proving you are right.

    But check your e-mail, I’m not done!

    Like

  2. Ed,
    I have a concordance, but I don’t let it define what a human being is saying. People, being human, misuse words. They can be unclear in their message and if sitting down having a halfway intelligent conversation can say, “let me put that another way”. I personally have cognitive issues that don’t allow the words I want to hit the surface right away. It doesn’t mean that I lack knowledge or intelligence. It just means that I have a misfire in that portion of the brain at times.

    I don’t think tweets are a good way to communicate. I don’t believe the man using the term “dude” should have been an issue. That is just the way he speaks. A man who twists scripture such as Miano should not be accusing a young man of twisting scripture lest he be like Satan. Then seriously dismiss him by saying “good night”. End of discussion, Miano has deemed himself right. He claimed himself the victor.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Ed, it appears to me that you have a lot in common with Mr. Miano with regards to your argumentativeness. Aren’t you glad I don’t have the power to pronounce you as unconverted?

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  4. These guys are already blowing it by debating each other in a public forum….biblically you are supposed to go in private if you are offended by your brother….get a life, guys………………

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  5. Julie Anne,

    I know that this isn’t a debate blog. But I do dissect what people say. When things are said that doesn’t sound right to me, based on Bible, because this is a “spiritual” abuse blog, then I feel the need to find out, “Well, where in God’s name did they get that weird idea from, because that isn’t what I read in the Bible”. If they are gonna get all “spiritual” about it, there had better be some sort of Bible reference to back it up.

    But your article is based on two people that was in a debate, which is why I was focused on the topic of debate so heavily.

    Respectfully,

    Ed

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  6. I don’t think tweets are a good way to communicate.

    In 140 keystrokes, it’s hard to say anything more complex and/or profound than “I Made A Poopie!”

    I don’t believe the man using the term “dude” should have been an issue. That is just the way he speaks.

    Guy has never heard California Surfer-speak. “DUDE!”

    End of discussion, Miano has deemed himself right. He claimed himself the victor.

    “For in the Devil’s theology, the most important thing is to be Absolutely Right and to prove that everybody else is Absolutely Wrong. This does not exactly make for peace and unity among men.”
    — Thomas Merton, “Moral Theology of the Devil”
    http://thegroundoffaith.net/issues/2008-10/Merton.htm

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  7. @JustaBeliever:

    get a life, guys………………

    Too late. They’re on Twitter, texting 24/7.

    “A life” exists in Meatspace, and they have Left Meatspace Behind.

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  8. Ok Ed….

    Here are the ground rules with me and why. This is a blog that deals with abuse which means many people here have been abused in different ways. I was questioned about being a pacifist and mentioned that a pacifist is not necessarily passive. I don’t take bullying or any other of the BS you’ve been dishing out. Since violence isn’t the answer not entertaining the garbage is my only recourse…

    From the outset you’ve approached this as a “debate” and I approached this as a “discussion” There is a big difference. In a debate the goal is going for the kill to win. In a discussion, the two parties walk away sometimes with mutual agreement sometimes without.

    As for the comments about my sensitivity to your sarcasm, let me tell you that your comment made me furious. You do not know me, you don’t know my background (Julie Anne does some because we have communicated in the past) and, to top it off, you were not reading my replies to you well enough to even be conversational — you misread them to keep going for the kill. What you exposed to me seemed to be arrogance and pride, definitely not something that fits in the “fruits of the spirit” basket. I nearly responded to you and felt the Holy Spirit ask me not to so I cut it off.

    I will not discuss this any further, at least at this point, but do encourage you to read the verses about fools in context, maybe my meaning will be clearer.

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  9. “get a life, guys………………”

    I think Miano lives on Twitter. One day, just for fun, I decided to count how many tweets/retweets he did over a period of three hours. I think I counted over 30.

    “Get a life……” I would agree.

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  10. Dear Ed,

    I’m not sure that “C. Vo” is necessarily arguing from a politically leftist perspective. I wonder if he could be speaking as a pacifist. Many Christians that I know here in Japan are strongly pacifist, and are strictly opposed to war and to any taking of human life. And they would probably argue that point using verses similar to those quoted by C. Vo.

    Personally, I’m not a pacifist. I think that sometimes it is necessary to take someone else’s life, even though it’s an enormous responsibility. But even though I disagree with the conclusions of my Japanese friends, I’m not going to accuse them of twisting Scripture. That’s because I know them, and understand some of their reasons for being opposed to killing. And I certainly won’t accuse them of being like Satan. I find it hopelessly cruel of Miano to do so.

    Further up, Ann compared Miano’s attitude to that of some Scientologists. That similarity struck me as well. If a member should disagree with some action or teaching by the “church”, other Scientologists would be quick to label the offender as “suppressive” or “degraded” or “out-ethics”, or any number of nonsensical terms that Hubbard made up to insult people. Even though these terms might be supported by their “scripture”, their actual use as a thought-stopping technique is (at best) rude, and (at worst) it keeps people from communicating and sharing opinions. This tactic has given Scientologists the well-earned reputation for being impossible to argue with.

    I can see Paul asking out loud why the believers in Galatia were so foolish. They were in danger of turning away from the main point of trust in Jesus — that we can’t earn our salvation. Miano might have been using jargon to warn C. Vo against abusing Scripture, but as I see it, invoking the name of Satan just isn’t right. It seems calculated to hurt, and to spook C. Vo into shutting up and going away. Not very Christlike to me.

    Sorry if I’m barging in. Must sleep now.

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  11. Ed,

    Let me ask for forgiveness for my last line in my response above. It wasn’t appropriate.

    Here is what I heard you saying (I’ve heard others use this logic so I’m not unfamiliar with it but may have misinterpreted).

    Jesus said don’t call someone a fool but Paul called the Galatians fools so I can too. Here is my, as concise as possible, response…

    If Paul really did call the Galatians fools, then he would have been sinning. And he would have been sinning in our holy book. So maybe we take that out of context when we think that way.

    I don’t know what Bible translation you consider “best”, one that I appreciate takes Galatians 3:1 and translates it as “Galatians, don’t act like fools! Has someone cast a spell over you?” This points out that Paul didn’t call the Galatians fools but was admonishing them not to be fool.

    As I said… Discussion closed.

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  12. Joel,

    This is what began my conversation with you:

    ” I am fascinated that we return to Old Testament (or better said “Old Covenant” thinking when trying to point out or, for that matter, justify sin. To go to the 10 commandments to discuss whether the 6th was talking of killing or murder? Many in my circles would say that Jesus taught us to lay down our arms and prepare to take whatever violence comes our way because that is what Jesus did.”

    Followed by the words, “What would Jesus do”.

    So, I read the article of reference. I disagreed with your premise, and explained why. I was astonished at your fascination by your rhetorical statement “that we return to the Old Test…to justify sin”, when I found no sin to begin with. What sin? And how did you come to the conclusion that what you are discussing is sin to begin with? What was your source to identify sin?

    “Spiritual” sounding board:
    Yes, many have been abused in numerous ways, but the focus used to be on how that abuse became spiritual abuse, i.e. the church leaders victimized the victim in various ways, such as blaming the victim, condemning the victim, threatening the victim, defending the perp, denying secular counseling, and wanting to handle felony crime “in house”, so that no one outside the church would ever be able to prosecute, and, pastor suing a former congregant for negative google reviews. The abuse was all “spiritual” in its orientation.

    Now, some of us, ME, have never been abused spiritually. However, I have seen it in action. I know my Bible pretty well, and I am able to discern when scripture is abused, used in an incorrect manner to put people into bondage. Well, that same Bible also shows that those in bondage can be freed from bondage. People are taught things incorrectly, and that is abuse. Now, is this a topic where it’s just going to be a discussion, and we let those who abuse scripture continue to abuse? Or are we gonna defend those who are spiritually abused by being ascertive and bold against those who use the Bible to put people into spiritual bondage?

    I know you don’t like my style, but what I see is what God said, and he said this:

    Hosea 4:6
    My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge.

    Knowledge is important, and God gives it. To me, it isn’t about “I’m right and you are wrong.”

    To me, it’s “Why don’t you know? You have a Bible.”

    Respectfully,

    Ed

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  13. Ed, if God gives you knowledge and you believe that others who disagree with you do so because they don’t know the Bible as well as you, then there is no point in ever having a discussion with you, is there?

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  14. Marsha,

    God gives YOU knowledge too. We should all be pointing scripture out to people who don’t know, so that they will know how to avoid abuse in the future. That is what I try to do. God wants us to know what HE has to say.

    Take note of verse 12-13

    John 10:1-15
    John 10 King James Version (KJV)

    10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

    2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

    3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

    4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

    5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

    6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

    7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

    8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

    9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

    10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

    11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

    12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

    13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

    14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

    15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

    Ed

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  15. “A man who twists scripture such as Miano should not be accusing a young man of twisting scripture lest he be like Satan. Then seriously dismiss him by saying “good night”. End of discussion, Miano has deemed himself right. He claimed himself the victor.”

    That’s his shtick. And he thinks he is being just like Jesus while doing that.

    I need to know- is twisting scripture the same as interpreting scripture? Miano likes to use that *twist not* phrase because he feels the person with whom he is interacting is not interpreting scripture the “correct” way, right? I wonder if Miano has ever said the *twist not* phrase to Ray Comfort. Ray very much disagrees with Minano’s women cannot “herald” the gospel in public (OA preaching) views…so he and Miano disagree. But isn’t someone “twisting” scripture to fit their view? Someone has got to be twisting/interpreting the verses differently because they use the same ones to support their different views on women preaching.

    Yet Miano says Comfort is one of the godliest, super duperest Christian men he has ever known. (High praise, indeed.) So is *twist not*only reserved for special kinds of people – certainly not your friends or those you may wish to impress/have a job with someday?

    Liked by 1 person

  16. So if God gives Christians knowledge, Ed, and they don’t come to the same conclusions, then what? See, this is the problem. It’s the Young Earth vs Old Earth, Complementarian vs Egalitarian, Calv vs Arm, etc. – these old debates will never come to a resolution where everyone agrees. The problem I have is when there becomes a climate where quieter ones don’t feel like they could ever get their voice heard, or when it gets personal. I think that happened yesterday and we need to figure out how to not let it go that far. In a debate forum, that’s fine. In a place where people had no voices in their churches when they questioned their pastor or had a different opinion, it makes it unsafe and can be triggering, so we need to always be aware of that.

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  17. Diane,
    I wish I had an answer about a difference between twisting/interpreting scripture. I’m not sure there is any. I do know when scripture is taken out of context or is improperly translated things get complicated. (Sorry JA, I’m going to get way off topic) I happen to believe that divorce is allowed for abuse, abandonment (even when the offender has not left the home) and adultery (sexual immorality). There are many who would not agree with me on that, but I find those principals to be Biblically sound by reading the entire Bible, Old and New Testaments. I also believe that remarriage is allowed for the non offending party. I will probably have more opposition with that stand.

    The rapture is another big doctrinal difference. I could go on and on with more areas of disagreement. The bottom line is that no one person has a total infallible knowledge of the Bible. We can’t have. We are not God. I am open for discussion and have changed my views through prayer and God changing my heart’s views over the years. I think they might call that maturity.

    I hope that the tweet masters are very happy. The officer who shot the 18 year old has quit his job. Now all of the protestors, rioters and looters across the country can go home.

    Liked by 1 person

  18. I get what you are saying Brenda R.

    I find it humorous that Comfort and Miano can disagree/twist/differently interpret about such a huge deal (wimins talking about God) yet neither one is evidently *twisting not*…and both are awesome men of God, in their opinions.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. “What he really means to say is that he will only allow you an opportunity to speak with him if you agree with him – just like a bully.”

    As evidenced by the comment policy on his blog. Preapproval required AND he gets the right to use your comment however he pleases. You know, make a blog post about it all in the name of teaching.

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  20. Brenda R,

    I don’t know that I have “the answer” when it comes to “twisted scripture” vs. interpretation but here is my shot at it.

    We all interpret scripture rightly or wrongly. A biblical example would be the Pharisees. They, from what I can tell, for the most part properly interpreted the scriptures they had. On the other hand, they twisted it to their advantage. They twisted it to build themselves up and put others down. Interpretation of scripture is meant to edify. It can do so by encouragement or through conviction or though comfort.

    For example, let’s look back at John 9 – the woman accused of adultery. Those that were attempting to trap Jesus by stoning the woman were right, they had every moral right to stone her to death. How then, did they twist scripture? Where was the man, adultery takes two and the Bible says she was caught in the act. Where was the man? Scripture was twisted.

    Let’s then look the interaction between Miano and C.Vo.
    1) Not documented here but online, we see Miano use John 7:24 to attempt to shut down the conversation to his advantage (his win).
    2) C.Vo. quote the 6th commandment but continues to attempt to express his belief that we should unconditionally show love.
    3) Miano shuts down with the “twisted scripture” comment.

    It’s a little hard to see who was twisting what… Maybe some happening on either side. The question would be the motives of both Miano and C.Vo. Hard to tell but…

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  21. Julie Anne wrote:
    “What he really means to say is that he will only allow you an opportunity to speak with him if you agree with him – just like a bully.”

    …I have the one-and-thee-only-truth from the Bible… Eerily similar to what Wahhabi Islam has done with their Qur’an, no?

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  22. Joelfrederick,
    Good examples. I’ve heard many a sermon on the accusation of the woman caught in adultery. The only time that the subject of “where was the man?” was brought up in a ladies Bible study group. It is good to hear someone else asking that question. Miano’s abrupt retreat reminds me of the kid that isn’t winning and takes his marbles and goes home.

    Like


  23. Julie Anne commented: “So if God gives Christians knowledge, Ed, and they don’t come to the same conclusions, then what? See, this is the problem. It’s the Young Earth vs Old Earth, Complementarian vs Egalitarian, Calv vs Arm, etc. – these old debates will never come to a reso”

    I know that the format will be terrible for this reply. Bear with me. Its my phone. Julie Anne, I , based on your own admission that you could care less about those topics that you mentioned. That tells me that you have yet to be a berean and research the topic on your own. We are instructed of God to seek God. You minimize the power of the holy spirit to guide you into all truth by dismissing those topics. Gods word means something. We need to ask ourselves why do we believe what we believe? What is our basis? Is the bible Gods word or not? Does God want us to have knowledge or not? Does God expect us as individuals to seek his knowledge and wisdom or not? Does he expect us to SEEK His Logos or not–

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  24. Julie Anne, I , based on your own admission that you could care less about those topics that you mentioned. That tells me that you have yet to be a berean and research the topic on your own.

    Ed, whatcha drinking in your coffee, brother? Where did you get an idea that I could care less about the aforementioned topics? I think you know me better than that. The fact of the matter is that this place is not used for me to spout off my opinions/my convictions/my studies about highly debatable topics. This place has a purpose and that is to discuss spiritual abuse and be a safe place.

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  25. A few things:

    1. I live in the St. Louis area, and the Ferguson situation is far more complicated than the media makes it sound.

    2. We run into problems when we declare our interpretation of the Bible to be the only valid interpretation.

    3. Say what you want about the Huffington Post, but it was because of their religion page that I was able to keep my Christian faith, as I was involved with a church that seemed to marry the Christian faith and the Republican party platform and implied that they were one and the same. Reading Huffington Post articles helped me understand that you can be left-leaning and wholly devoted to Christ as well. (let me also state that there is nothing wrong with being Republican-leaning, just that it is not required to be Christian)

    Liked by 1 person

  26. @MuffPotter:

    …I have the one-and-thee-only-truth from the Bible… Eerily similar to what Wahhabi Islam has done with their Qur’an, no?

    Complete with God’s Sovereign Omnipotent Will, the place of wimmenfolk, and what should be done to Infidels and Heretics.

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  27. More Miano behavior that I described above: Now he’s going after Randy Alcorn because Randy tweeted something about Luis Palau. Luis Palau is said to be friends with Catholics. Catholics are the enemy (he seems to be taking the lead from CON – CON does the same thing). He’s exhibiting more bully behavior – – he cannot let Randy Alcorn decide for himself whom he will connect with, endorse, retweet. If Randy engages TM and does not concede, it could get ugly (from unfollowing, telling Randy to repent, questioning Randy’s salvation).

    This is the pattern to watch from bullies. “It’s my way or the high way.”

    https://twitter.com/TonyMiano/status/539158473154764800

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  28. This is really sad. Jesus ate with prostitutes, tax collectors, pharisees and lawyers. Maybe the Pope will be converted. TM stop tweeting you are showing bad fruit.

    Liked by 1 person

  29. It makes me sick. At my cult church, we were told who we could associate with. After we left and were shunned, those who didn’t shun were put in church discipline and also shunned. I have a real hard time with people trying to tell other people who they can associate with, who they can tweet, etc. They are presuming to be the Holy Spirit, they are not allowing you to choose, to think for yourself. It is bully behavior and so inappropriate.

    Liked by 1 person

  30. I am coming into this late. as usual, but having friends who are RCC does not make one an enemy of Christ. I am not sure what Palau did which merits such a statement.

    Miano calling Anyabwile “young man” is patronising, although at his age maybe he should welcome it. (Don’t know how to make a smiley). I don’t see how Miano can say that Anyabwile is being like Satan. His analysis is based on the facts known to him. Perhaps he has other sources of information which inform his perspective. I certainly disagree with Anyawible’s proposals regarding our “marching orders’, but don’t see anything in them that is “like Satan”.

    Liked by 1 person

  31. I am a YEC (horrible term), but don’t think OEC’s are “like Satan”, they are just wrong. Similarly, most of the folks I interact with don;t homeschool, but again, I don;t think they are “like Satan” or “enemies of Christ”. I think this type of language substitutes for debating the merits of one’s position. I think Miano has the absolute right to use this language, but this is not the equivalent of convincing hearers/readers of his positions.

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  32. One last observation. are not both these men Baptists? Does one baptist pastor have authority over another one? I thought they were radically congregational.

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  33. I was at a business dinner back when OJ Simpson was acquitted of murder. There was a very intelligent, highly educated, middle aged black woman at the dinner. Whilst we were discussing the verdict her opinion was as follows: “I don’t care if he was guilty or not! This is pay back for how black people have been treated all these years.” The same attitude still lives today, despite the fact that we have a black president.

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  34. And again, this is why I don’t want to live in a theocracy. God help us all if what we should believe or do is determined by politicians who don’t just think their position is the best one but who think they are speaking for God and their opponents are speaking for Satan.

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  35. @Marsha:

    And again, this is why I don’t want to live in a theocracy. God help us all if what we should believe or do is determined by politicians who don’t just think their position is the best one but who think they are speaking for God and their opponents are speaking for Satan.

    As in they are Israel in the Promised Land and their opponents are the Canaanites already there. (As the Massachusetts Puritans saw themselves and the native tribes.) Let the Cleansing(TM) begin.

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  36. @JulieAnne:

    More Miano behavior that I described above: Now he’s going after Randy Alcorn because Randy tweeted something about Luis Palau. Luis Palau is said to be friends with Catholics.

    Reminds me of a song lyric I heard on YouTube some time ago but haven’t been able to find since:
    “Jesus didn’t die
    So you could be an a-hole;
    Jesus didn’t die
    So you could get rich…”

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  37. @BrendaR:

    This is really sad. Jesus ate with prostitutes, tax collectors, pharisees and lawyers.

    That include gamers, Furries, and Bronies, too?

    Maybe the Pope will be converted.

    Or maybe the Pope will convert them.
    Whose church has the longer track record?

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  38. Plausible Deniability plus “Let Bubba do the Dirty Work.”

    Great. I don’t show up early in a thread, and HUG blames me for everything. :^)

    Seriously, I glanced–sorry didn’t read everything fully—at the list of comments here, and one thing that strikes me is that, whether I agree or disagree, the vast majority of comments are longer than 140 characters, including mine. It might be stated that theology in general is not well discussed on “Twitter”, despite the fact that Jesus’ responses to Satan in His temptation would fit into Twitter format. (the Devil’s accusations do not, FWIW)

    Regarding the specific accusation, I would argue that (this is that Twitter limitations thing again, really) we really ought not hastily accuse others of being of Satan. Now the Prophets, Apostles, John the Baptist, and our Lord DID on occasion make that accusation, but it seems to have followed a clear history and context for making the accusation. To use a soapbox I know and love, we’re talking “after Matthew 18:19” as a reasonable starting point, and even then, God tells us to use another phrase to describe it.

    Quick bit about Miano; read through the theology on his new ministry and on the page of the church that he now submits to, and it is basic Baptistic theology, even if the churches don’t claim the Baptist name. And knowing from experience, we Baptists are all too often hasty to separate and gloss over the real differences. I can’t say whether this is the case for Miano, as I’m not terribly familiar with him.

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  39. Julie Anne wrote-

    “More Miano behavior that I described above: Now he’s going after Randy Alcorn because Randy tweeted something about Luis Palau. Luis Palau is said to be friends with Catholics. Catholics are the enemy (he seems to be taking the lead from CON – CON does the same thing).”

    CON, and perhaps James White. Miano seems mildly… um…fascinated with Dr. White, who is very outspoken with his critique of the RCC. Remember when Miano tweeted the picture of his new TV a few weeks ago and tweeted one of the reasons for getting such a large TV was being able to watch Dr. White’s Dividing Line show– with White’s face showing on his TV screen? lol…he does retweet lots of White’s tweets too. Maybe Miano is on a new bandwagon now…searching the internet far and wide for anyone tweeting anything about anyone who ever said anything even remotely pro Roman Catholic.

    Tony Miano @TonyMiano · 1h 1 hour ago

    More from @DrOakley1689 regarding @RickWarren’s capitulation to #RomanCatholicism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfOfKUujVJo&feature=youtu.be

    Like

  40. HUG,
    I’m not at all sure what “gamers, Furries, and Bronies,” are, but the Catholic Church started 300 years after Christ. Christ established his church while he was here. I would bet that Christians were meeting in secret so as not to be found out and killed. I am not saying that there are not Christian Catholics, because I know some that have said that they stay in the church to pass on the good news of the Gospel and are not required to confess their sins to a priest. They can go directly to the High Pries, Jesus Christ.

    Like

  41. Julie Anne,

    You had said:
    ” Where did you get an idea that I could care less about the aforementioned topics?”

    I do believe, if my memory is correct, that YEC vs. OEC are topics that you could care less about.

    However, my point was that
    1. People use scripture to abuse.

    2. Why are we NOT being a berean SO AS TO COUNTER that abuse?

    Being a Berean mean that YOU:
    1. Don’t believe everything that a preacher preaches until you check it out for yourself.

    The Bible states it this way: Search the scriptures daily to see if those things are so.

    Now, I know, people will say that they don’t have the time. I know. Do we really want God to ask us why we didn’t have the time to seek him in HIS WORD? In Isaiah 9:6 he is called COUNSELOR.

    How do we expect to counter spiritual abuse without consulting God? He will show is in his word.

    Knowledge.

    If you use biblegateway.com, and choose, say, the KJV for example, seek out that word, “knowledge” in the whole bible, and you will see a lot of references. Proverbs is a great place to start out. But God expects us to have knowledge.

    So, when I see statements that Jesus wants us to lay down our arms, I need to counter that with scripture to say, “Uh, no he doesn’t”.

    Abuse of scripture.

    Ed

    Like

  42. Ah, yes, Ed, the OEC/YEC is one issue that I find that doesn’t interest me as much as others and it’s not a primary doctrinal issue, either. There are others, however, in the list where I do hold a strong opinion. But again, I try to keep the focus of this blog centered on topics of abuse, not debates.

    Like

  43. Julie Anne,

    In your last sentence, I think you missed my point. My point is that spiritual abuse…SPIRITUAL abuse is BASED ON abusing scripture.

    How do you counter that?

    Answer: Scripture.

    When Jesus was tempted of Satan…Did Satan abuse scripture with Jesus? Yes, he did.

    What did Jesus do to COUNTER that?

    Answer: Jesus quoted scripture back at him.

    People were abused BY scripture. We need to counter that abuse with scripture.

    Is that really defined as debate?

    That is my point.

    Ed

    Like

  44. Ok, Ed. I don’t agree that spiritual abuse is always based on abusing scripture, at all. I believe a lot of it is based on people sinning and trying to assume a position of authority that is not theirs.

    Like

  45. Julie Anne,

    And you don’t think that is in the Bible? We’ve discussed that authority word in numerous blog posts before. A Amos Love makes it a point to discuss it in almost every comment. I as well. Maybe I am missing something, I don’t know.

    Ed

    Like

  46. Ed – time out. White flag. I’m spent. Just got home from my evening math class that I’ve spent so many hours studying for.

    Sure, abuse of authority is in the Bible. I was talking about those other specific topics to debate. I”m not going there.

    Like

  47. Oh, sorry…When we both have some more time, let’s talk on email. I was unaware of your schoolwork/test. I’m back to being busy again, as well. It’s really hard to keep up with your blog these days. Many posts and comments I haven’t had time to get to. Hopefully you have a beer and relax!!

    Ed

    Liked by 1 person

  48. This is how Miano spends his day, arguing on twitter, and people send him money to stay home and do this?!? The blindness and ignorance are amazing.

    Here’s more of Miano’s bullying….

    Tony Miano ‏@TonyMiano 10h10 hours ago
    @between2worlds and @TGC: For whom should I have empathy? http://twitchy.com/2014/12/01/san-francisco-police-show-injuries-to-officer-protesters-peaceful-demonstration-tools/

    ‏@TonyMiano
    . @between2worlds @TGC See. You can’t bring yourself 2 show support for law enforcement. Don’t worry, though. They’ll still come when u call
    Reply Retweet Favorite

    BetweenTwoWorlds ‏@between2worlds 10h10 hours ago
    @TonyMiano what??

    BetweenTwoWorlds ‏@between2worlds 10h10 hours ago
    @TonyMiano @TGC sorry, Tony. I misunderstood your tweet as a good-faith q (and my answer includes POs) instead of trolling.

    Tony Miano ‏@TonyMiano 10h10 hours ago
    @between2worlds @TGC Ahh. That’s convenient, isn’t it.

    BetweenTwoWorlds ‏@between2worlds 10h10 hours ago
    @TonyMiano @TGC sorry–no point in dialoging if you’re going to misunderstand and misconstrue everything I say.

    Miano is also using the Ferguson incident to speak of his support of law enforcement and continues to lie about how he is a retired 20 year vet, even though he quit his full time position after 13 years – http://www.police-writers.com/miano.html. From the article – “Tony Miano has been a deputy sheriff for the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department since 1987. He served full-time until 2000, when he left full-time duty to pursue the ministry and to become a law enforcement chaplain. Since then he has continued to work as a police officer, serving as a reserve deputy sheriff. ” { a reserve deputy sheriff is a voluntary position which does NOT count towards years of actual active full-time service; this is a non-paying position}
    Why is he no longer a law enforcement chaplain? What happened there? Here’s the thing, Miano has a lot of ‘irons in the fire’ and when that doesn’t pan out, he never mentions it again. For example, he speaks of attending Master’s College, but he never tells the whole story. Miano never completed his studies there, he quit. Does anyone else see a pattern here? Here’s another example, he bought an $800.00 recording system to use to record dead men’s sermons and sell them, which is quite disturbing. That didn’t go so well either, which is no surprise. You can get Spurgeon’s sermons on the internet for free, why pay somebody?He does not follow through with things. That shows up in his twitter exchanges, he confronts others foolishly and picks a fight, and instead of following the argument through to the end, he either blocks his victim or he throws out a Paul Washer cliche.
    This is how he gets out of his own messes that HE creates- @TonyMiano
    @Menn0knight @fredpricejr I blocked him. Too easy to stumble with guys like him.
    Notice how he throws the blame back on his victim! He doesn’t want to ‘stumble’, so he blocks the man. Isn’t that telling? So much for caring about the eternal state of those he deems to be lost sinners. Is that how an evangelist is supposed to think?!

    Miano thinks he is the sole authority of all truth, his way of thinking is superior and supersedes everyone else’s. In reality, what he presents as ‘truth’ is often twisted, tainted, and motivated by pride and arrogance. He WILL win every argument he starts, that’s his goal. He gets much delight in thinking he rules the twitter world. He could care less about lovingly correcting a brother or sister in error, nor does he care if someone’s beliefs are erroneous, which may lead them into danger. He attacks the PERSON, and NOT their error. His only goal to to prove himself right, so he can exalt himself as ‘king of the hill’. This is some sick game to him; what’s even scarier are those who support, defend and befriend him – men like Phil Johnson, Dr. James White, Chuck O’Neal {birds of a feather}, Bjorn Storm and a handful of others. Is it any wonder the Bible warns us NOT to follow or put our trust in man? If this is what evangelism looks like, America is in dire straits! This type of bullying is not what Christ commands and must be shunned. It certainly is not worthy of financial backing and support, Mr. Miano needs to quit using God as an excuse to NOT work so he can spend his day picking fights on twitter. He also needs to quit telling others what to do and follow his own ‘set of standards’, considering he frequents Starbucks, which is pro-gay marriage and pro-abortion – wouldn’t that cause him to possibly ‘stumble’? His hypocrisy is astounding.

    Like

  49. Wow. Palau is an enemy of Christ. Isn’t that the same as calling someone Satan?

    I would argue that it would suggest that the accused is an “antichrist”, and 1 John makes clear that there are many antichrists and one Antichrist.

    So it’s close to calling Palau Satan, but not quite. And not being terribly familiar with Palau’s work, I personally take no position on whether he is an antichrist of any kind, let alone “the” Antichrist.

    On a hopefully constructive note, I would argue that the “twitter wars” (and you need “twit” to spell “twitter”, no?) really release what is worst in the “prooftexting” culture of evangelicalism. If we can’t say it in 140 characters, or at most a Chick tract, all too many of us are incapable of comprehending. And if this characterization of Mr. Miano is fair, I do hope that those around him start to say “Tony, you need to try some decaf and learn some theology.”

    Or a glass of wine, like our gracious hostess. The Nouveau is nice this year.

    And I will confess that it strikes me as odd that we have 45 minute sermons in “fundagelical” churches, but an attention span that won’t get us through a commercial for Coca-Cola. Go figure. And pray. And try some of what He made from water.

    Like

  50. @lyn:

    This is how Miano spends his day, arguing on twitter, and people send him money to stay home and do this?!?

    All I can say is NICE RACKET.

    Liked by 1 person

  51. “Tony Miano has been a deputy sheriff for the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department since 1987. He served full-time until 2000, when he left full-time duty to pursue the ministry and to become a law enforcement chaplain. Since then he has continued to work as a police officer, serving as a reserve deputy sheriff. ” { a reserve deputy sheriff is a voluntary position which does NOT count towards years of actual active full-time service; this is a non-paying position}

    “Los Angeles County Sheriff” is one county over from me, and during the years 1987-2000 they did NOT have a good reputation. Ended up with some major shakeups.

    Like

  52. @BrendaR:

    HUG,
    I’m not at all sure what “gamers, Furries, and Bronies,” are…

    They’re fandoms I’ve been involved with that are looked at askance by “mundanes” and have rep of being major losers.

    Like

  53. Brenda, oh, you are delightfully humorous. Love , love, love that….please stick to the country bumpkin phraseologies for we redneck losers out in the middle of no where understand them beautifully! Although it is an interesting experience to learn of the dealings of man within the urban and suburban environments, that’s for sure.

    Personally, not familiar with the preaching and teaching of Tony Miano, for lately there is a calling for me not to aggrandize nor embrace any big name, big celebrity, nor big business preacher or teacher of Christianity any longer. This personal choice is not because I am so special, nor so holy, nor do I know more…..it is because I have been slashed and burned at the stake within the 501c. 3 church system for far too long, following the furrows of man’s opinions.

    One begs to ask the question, “Just who exactly are we worshiping in the church these days?” (Permission granted to roll thy eyeballs, or laugh out loud, or yell at the computer calling thee names, and the like…..have experienced all of that and then some in every 501c. 3.) No, really, here folks…..in the everyday conversations within the church system, the average pew sitter NEVER talks about Jesus, or the wonderful, life saving truths they are learning form God’s Word (maybe perhaps they never crack open their Bibles and could grow a healthy crop of sweet corn from the dirt and dust compiled on its cover. And maybe deep down believing their own infant baptism, weekly church building attendance, signed church covenant, glossy membership card, and believing they are “good people”, or perhaps expecting the pastors salvation to cover him when Jesus returns for His Second Coming.) Talk about Jesus in your churches and most attendees will avoid you like the plague for you are one of those “Jesus freaks.”

    1 John 2:24-27
    “Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you will also abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise He has promised us — eternal life. These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. But the annointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone
    teach you; but as the same annointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.”

    I haven’t been called satan lately, but have been referred to as having a “jezebel spirit” from a pastor of a charismatice/pentecostal church. On that very Sunday morning, as he proudly paced back and forth from this pulpiteer stage talking about spirits, he smuggly made eye contact with me and another woman in the congregation who did not subscribe to his “signs and wonders/prophetic annointing” and the “we are little gods” belief system (Joyce Meyers/Kenneth Copeland/Benny Hinn trilogy). So was it possible he was calling me out as a jezebel or having a jezebel spirit? I believe he was and that was the very last time I set foot in that church, sitting under his authority.

    God is always merciful and He is always faithful to those that completely trust in Him. BTW, that abusive pastor was relieved of his duty a couple of weeks following his “jezebel sermon” for making inappropriate sexual advances to a few of the married women under his watch. And the leadership covered his back with what is called in the secular as “damage control”; no public admittance of sin, nor humble repentance to those he chose to “lord over.” And like Tony Miano above, the pride and arrogance portrays more darkness than light.

    It has taken this sinner/saint several years to heal from the fallout of this church/pastor/leadership system, but in the end, I can be very thankful this happened to me, for I ran to the Scriptures for truth instead of placing my hope in a man/woman/or religious system of which I was accustomed to do given the fact that I was taught to “be submissive” from a charimatic/pentecostal viewpoint, not God’s truth in context. Praise our Father still today, for He truly loves those of us who call upon His Son, our Savior, for redemption, mercy, and grace. Oh, what a Savior we have.

    Psalm 118:8 “It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.”
    Psalm 118:9 “It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.”

    .Sorry, Julie Anne, for this lengthy post. It is my hope that it doesn’t sound too soap boxish.

    Liked by 1 person

  54. (I have not yet read this comment thread.) This last year I’ve learned about Narcissistic personality disorder. There are about 100 (“many”) different behaviors that are commonly associated with each person who could be considered in this category (cluster B in the DSM V). One of the behaviors is that they are extremely emotionally/ verbally abusive towards anyone who will not submit to them/ admire them/ capitulate to them/ obey them/ agree with them/ and are thus (potentially) psychologically/emotionally dangerous and harmful to anyone in their vicinity: family, friends, co-workers, acquaintances. In my opinion, it seems that many religious leaders in Evangelicaldom are thus emotionally cruel and abusive and are unsafe for being involved in any kind of work that involves caring for the emotional and spiritual needs of people.

    Like

  55. It’s true, religion drives you mad. Miano is going off the deep end, attack any and all he sees fit to attack. He’s setting himself up as the sole possessor of what he deems to be truth, and making himself the judge of men. This is so dangerous, and extremely sinful. However, I believe he’s nearing the end of his run; his schtick is about over and his ministry will soon topple down to what it truly is….nothing. God will not be mocked.

    Liked by 1 person

  56. Who is he that anyone should be concerned if they’ve lost his ‘respect’? He is using the ferguson situation to exalt himself – he continually references to his ’20 years of service’, even though he quit after 13 years, as if that mattered now. He was a bully as a deputy sheriff, that hasn’t changed. This man is cruel, evil and should be shunned. He has no authority and he does not speak for Christ. His ‘religion’ is dangerous, destructive, forceful and driven by his own pride. It’s sad that Miano is steeped in sin himself, and yet, he has the audacity to dare attempt to remove the specks of others. This is what outward religion looks like, it drives its followers to the point of madness.

    Liked by 2 people

  57. I don’t understand that need to put this in such stark terms on either side of the divide. I disagree with many folks about Ferguson and wish we would only look at individual behavior of people and stop trying to make it a race war. On one side, you are a racist of you don’t agree and on the other side you are not a Christian if you don’t agree. I saw some saying that if you don’t agree it is the same as supporting slavery in the confederacy. Now Tony is saying not agreeing with his view is not being a real Christian.

    Where are the folks who can discuss and sharpen iron? It is obvious with this sort of vitriol on both sides there can be no real progress on solutions. Only one side winning and another losing. That is what a class and race war brings. And you can only have race and class wars when we ignore individual responsibility and accountability no matter the color or position.

    Ferguson is one reason I no longer read twitter.

    Like

  58. I was lurking through Miano’s account to see if he has posted anything about the Eric Garner death. He hasn’t posted much, but had a conversation with someone stating that because he resisted arrest, that was enough for the officer to take the action he did.

    Like

  59. And who is Miano that he should determine resisting arrest is enough for an officer to take the action he took? Miano knows NOTHING of the entire situation, other than what the media provides. To make a definite decision based solely on that is foolishness, which is typical ‘Miano fashion’. He goes off half-cocked and determines his view is the only accurate one without even knowing for certain. He was not there, so he has no right to make any decisive statements, nor does he have a right to claim loss of respect for those who differ. His arrogance truly is astonishing.

    Like

  60. “If you question them and their opinion, you may be accused of being divisive, a Jezebel, or even Satan. Watch out for spiritual bullies!” Yea, this sentence sums up my experience. I disagreed with one pastor (actually, “pastor”…they gave themselves the title) and 4 of them attacked me! I know you understand, Julie Anne. I need to get back to reading this again. Sorry I’ve been away.

    Liked by 1 person

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