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Those of you who follow me on Twitter (DefendtheSheep), know that I have been trying to get to the bottom of the quote by Pastor Kevin Swanson, the popular homeschool leader who reported he had heard from certain scientists and doctors that: “there are these little tiny fetuses, these little babies, that are embedded into the womb. They’re just like dead babies. They’re on the inside of the womb. And these wombs of women who have been on the birth control pill effectively have become graveyards for lots and lots of little babies.
This comment has upset me on many levels for various reasons. When a popular Christian homeschool leader says something, people listen. If he says he has heard from scientists and doctors, he needs to provide proof so that his listeners can then have information they need to make wise choices.
I have tried to connect with him on his Generations Radio Facebook page, sent him a personal e-mail and have tagged him numerous times on Twitter asking for credible sources for his outrageous statement. He has given NO response.
I have asked his friend, R.C. Sproul,Jr. about this. Remember, both Swanson and Sproul are connected with the Birth Control movie I wrote about here. Sproul told me he might ask Swanson on Thursday (2 days ago).
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Minutes ago, I tweeted Sproul to see if he got a response from Swanson and will report back if I hear something.
On the Generations FB page, one of my comments was removed for most of the day (I had a group of my friends check to make sure I wasn’t imaging things and they confirmed it for me). This morning, I see, they have uhid my comment, but perhaps my 2nd comment here might explain why they put my other comment back up.
Here is my interpretation of events on FB Generations Radio page:
- Moderator saw my first comment.
- Moderator replied to the first one.
- Moderator, however, didn’t like it and hid my comment.
- After reading my 2nd comment, moderator had second thoughts about hiding my first comment and “unhid” it after reading my second comment saying that I had screen shots and would be posting on my blog.
I’m calling out this behavior as SPIRITUAL ABUSE.
On this occasion, I have decided to adopt new code language for my readers here: Just Like a Spiritual Abuser = JLSA
Off the top of my head, here are JLSA patterns I have observed. If you think of others, please leave them in the comment section and I will add them to this post.
Popular Christian homeschool leader, pastor, speaker, and radio personality Kevin Swanson speaks out authoritatively on subject inducing fear into those women who currently or formerly use birth control pills = JLSA
Popular Christian homeschool leader, pastor, speaker, and radio personality Kevin Swanson claims he heard this info from scientists and doctors, making his words sound credible, but fails to provide evidence = JLSA
Popular Christian homeschool leader, pastor, speaker, and radio personality Kevin Swanson avoids, ignores numerous requests by me and many others for credible sources of his information. = JLSA
Moderators of Swanson’s facebook page have removed comments (damage control/ image control) = JLSA
Another note: I cannot seem to find that any Christian leaders who have challenged his words (hmm, just like CJ and SGM).
I found topics of Swanson’s talks he presents at workshops, homeschool conventions. Take a look:
Getting Along in the Sandbox – Biblical Conflict Resolution
Conflict is inevitable in the sandbox of life. Whether it is in our families, our churches, with our friends or at our places of business, we will experience it in every relationship that has any depth. We can avoid conflict or recognize it as an opportunity, an opportunity to strengthen our relationships and to glorify God. But how do we do this? In this session Kevin will discuss several Biblical principles for responding to, dealing with, and resolving conflict.* *
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Public Letter to Kevin Swanson
Dear Mr. Swanson,
You have a public conflict on your hands. Let me remind you of these comments from your Facebook page:
Look at these people who are waiting for your response and you have ignored them. I would also like to point out that Tim Calahan’s comment has been removed. Why? Because there may be some truth to it?
As a pastor/teacher/homeschool leader, you need to deal with it this Biblically and publicly since you stated this publicly. People like Lauren Haines and her family believe you are teaching the truth and even the 4-year old is listening to your words. Are they truthful?
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You’ve had plenty of time to look over your notes on Biblical conflict resolution. Let’s get this resolved. God is not amused when you present yourself as a pastor and homeschool leader yet tell unfounded statements that can inflict emotional harm to countless people. You are not acting like a good shepherd. It’s time to come clean with the people who are blindly following you as well as the public who is watching you.
Julie Anne
Spiritual Sounding Board 
Hmmm…..when i teach my son about the Scientific Theory, Kevin Swanson would be an example of what junk science entails. This has to be called out for what it is…..also, his claims that homosexuals are coming to take away your homeschooled children and raise them in their corrupted environments. I call this stuff “scaremare theology” – if you scare people enough into thinking their “world” is in danger, they will cling to you for security. As in this case, we see these guys in the neo-calvinist gang doing exactly that.
Listen I say this humbly, I’ve been there and done that. I have been raised in the fundamentalist backgrounds and know exactly how this plays. I have even done it myself and I ask forgiveness for all those I misled. I had to ask it from my children and husband.
They will preach this: Armageddon- any shape or form they want to play it or act it out. The difference between me and others like me from these jokers is that we learn and grow from our mistakes. We have asked the good Lord to forgive us and then we move on and grow in love. This is where then we can be used by Him.
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Julie Anne,
I’ve started contacting OBGYNs (“womb doctors”) and pathologists (those who do study tissue for pathology on macro and micro levels – who would qualify as “womb scientists”) for statements about this strangeness. (Two people I talked with already thought it was insane, but thought it would be best to contact people with more specific experience.)
I’ll let you know what I hear when I hear it. I appreciate your attention to this kind of thing. 😉
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Cindy (undermuchgrace) – I’m glad you are asking questions to get this thing settled once and for all. It makes me wonder if you hide the initials behind your name when asking because I imagine it is a bit embarrassing to ask such a thing with your education and experience. I mean, really?!?! LOL Please do let me know what you find out and I’ll blast it out on this Sounding Board. Just doing whatever I can do to keep the truth, the real truth. Womb doctors – lol.
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trust4himonly: I’ll bet you’re a great hs-ing mom. I think you are absolutely right about the scare tactics. It is an abuse tactic because it presents the leader as the one who has all the answers and is going to save the day. Who wants to be left behind? These abusers think they are like Superman. Instead of wearing a big Superman shirt with “S” on it, it should say SA = Spiritual Abuser. I wonder if my resident artist can draw that up for me. I think I’ll ask 🙂
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You know, also, even if you play devil’s advocate and pretend that every fertilized ovum does end up riding in a woman’s uterus, the “thousands and thousands” issue is insane. But let’s play along and pretend that women always retain fertilized eggs and never pass them when the menstruate every month (when the whole lining of the uterus sheds because of the lack of pregnancy hormone created by an implanted egg).
It is widely accepted within the field of OB/GYN practice that the healthy, sexually active woman at the peak of her childbearing years who USES NO Birth Control (BC) will achieve 4-5 fertilized ovum per year. This is because conception is easy. It’s implantation that is more of the trick. You also don’t need a 100% endometrium for this to occur, otherwise there would never be such a thing as an ectopic pregnancy. (Part of the reasoning that Swanson’s claim seems based on is the anti-oral contraceptive (OC) argument that you need a fully rich endometrium to sustain a pregnancy. Most OCs primarily work to inhibit ovulation making this argument largely moot anyway.)
But lets assume that each conception did end up in the uterus and was retained, somehow magically surviving a woman’s period every month when even the lining itself is fully shed….
If the sexually active woman on no BC at all has 4-5 pregnancies, and for the same of argument, she maintains this level of fertility through out 30 of her prime years of childbearing which does not happen, because fertility drops off after age 30, and then starts plummeting at 35 years of age. But let’s cut Kevin a break. How many babies could this be? Lets assume 5 conceptions each year, just to help Kevin out. Multiply that by 30 years. This is 150 babies. Now lets throw in an extra factor for the release of multiple eggs which sometimes happens, resulting in paternal twins. Lets give Kevin a generous extra fifty conceptions.
Ignoring the fact that these normal conceptions are not retained by the body, but the then naturally dying cells pass from the body with the inner uterine lining during the menstrual cycle, lets play along with Kevin’s assumption.
What’s wrong here? Just with this much information, his “thousands and thousands” number is way off. Using this most generous and exaggerated number, just to make him not look so bad, a woman on no birth control could have no more than 200 of these “dead babies in her womb graveyard.” AND THAT WOULD BE IN A WOMAN USING NO BIRTH CONTROL FOR 30 YEARS WITH NO PREGNANCIES.
Women who take most forms of OCs don’t ovulate. One study I’ve read using advanced ultrasound techniques which monitors follicular changes in the ovary indicating single ovulation and multiple ovulations in the same month puts the most effective OC at a breakthrough ovulation rate at 0-3 eggs released in a five year period.
Let’s throw Kevin another bone and pretend that a woman on BC has ten ovulations in 5 years. The woman on OCs would only be “aborting” or “mummifying in her womb graveyard” a SWAG estimate (Scientific Wild A_ _ Guess) no more than about sixty babies.
Kevin, sixty is much less than thousands and thousands, and by your reasoning, a woman using no BC at all is much more unethical. She produces far more dead babies for her womb graveyard. You see, even assuming that these pills don’t work all that well, sixty is still much less than two hundred. 😉
There is also the issue of disease. In the normal, healthy woman, the uterine lining and any products of conception pass from the body every month. This alleged “physiologic fantasy” of Kevin’s is not a state of normal health but would be, so far as I understand things, a state of pathology. This wouldn’t even apply to all women, and it wouldn’t apply to most women.
But folks, please consider that Kevin Swanson said at the CHEC Summit in 2009 that he only needs the Bible, or I believe more specifically, the book of Psalms to homeschool his kids. He also teaches his sons algebra in the car as he drives to speaking gigs. Oh, yeah. And though Jesus often goes by the term The Word, the logos in Greek, Kevin also tells us that it’s not a big deal if your 13 year old son in the US in this Century cannot yet read. RC 2.0 agrees with him to some extent, as he talks about something similar in his book on Multigenerational Faithfulness. It’s okay if your ten year old daughter cannot read, so long as she can do her kingdom gender mandate of taking care of little ones and doing domestic chores.
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Cindy – – After reading your above comment – which I am tempted to highlight into a post because it is so good- – we can all see why your blog name is “Under Much Grace,” with all the cutting slack/grace you extended to him there. You were much too generous, but for a point. He used some gross exaggerations. It really boggles my mind how he could conjure up such kookiness. The sad thing that you and I both know is that women will believe him and will spread his flapdoodle (I’m working on expanding my vocabulary on words like nonsense and drivel because so much of what I expose fits the same category.) I quite like flapdoodle, don’t you?
I hope Swanson will read this post/comments. I tagged him on a tweet after posting this article. I also added this link to the Generations Radio Facebook page. So far, it’s still up there. Like a good blogger, I did take a screen shot. Let’s see if they keep it up or . . . if they act JLSA = just like a spiritual abuser 🙂
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Swanson’s standard of excellence in homeschooling:
http://www.johnscorner.blogspot.com/2009/05/chec-mens-leadership-summit_3810.html
RC, Jr’s standard for girls:
http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2009/02/rc-sproul-jrs-take-on-multigenerational.html
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Julie Anne,
Check my simple math. I’m at restaurant watching basketball, so I’m doing these calculations over a late lunch. I may be a bit hyper from the Stevia and caffeine in my iced tea. But post this if you like. Let me know if you want me to make some diagrams. But I’m sure that your ten year old who drew that love bomb art recently could do just as well at creating a graphic based on these numbers. 😉
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UMG,
That was a good comment and will have to read over carefully again since I am in the middle of writing out lesson plans for my two boys. I am very fond of your blog UMG – it was a great source for me as I was coming out of these exact “doctrinal” teachings.
Go Grizzlies!! sorry had to interject my on preference of which team I want to go to the playoffs.
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trust4himonly,
Thanks for your kind words. The links to the statements made by Sproul and Swanson are waiting in moderation — probably flagged as spam because of the links. IR tellin the truth! 😛
The Grizzlies are in my back yard, so I’m glad that we are rootin’ fer that same team.
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Yes, the links must have held the comment in the spam box. Iced tea in the winter? Love it. Good idea about drawing out diagrams!
I agree with trust4himonly, Cindy, your work has been so valuable to so many. I can get lost there. I would love to be a bug on the wall to see how many people have been able to sever ties with unhealthy churches/groups because of the information you have shared. Thank YOU!
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Julie Anne,
Thank you for your encouragement. Glory to God for His help through so many others that reached out to me. I had good teachers everywhere, from Sunday School when I was tiny, up through to the homeschooling moms who helped me see inside their experiences. (I just end up repeating the wise stuff other people who came before me have said, anyway.) And I’m grateful for people like you who have stepped up to the plate. There’s all plenty of madness and an obvious never ending string of it to decipher. High demand groups keep people off balance (and pliable) by switching up and creating new craziness, so it never ends.
I decided to take the pain of my experience which I’ve rung like a dishrag to squeeze every bit of good out of it that I could in the hope that no one would ever have to suffer in the same way that I did. God has been kind to bless it, It think, and I’m humbled by it. He gets all the glory and thanks.
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Yes UMG- He does get the glory!
I think something that has helped me tremendously was to keep things simple, even looking at the gospel. I thought well if Jesus said we must have faith as that of a child that is pretty darn simple. It has helped believe it or not to siphon out any confusing doctrines that always seemed to be changing like you said. I think this is where I was hurt most – was the complication of the gospel not what Christ really taught us to look for in Scripture. I grew up with fear of what was going to happen to me spiritually I did not realize it until later. The array of churches I had been to all taught the same principle – you could lose it. I am still trying to shed (through the help of the Holy Spirit) that fear of losing it. Now looking at His Word as one that is to encourage and uplift the believer is how I see it and not a book to fear. I am really not angry at the pastors who are perverting the gospel- I feel sorry for them for they do not have the simple joy and peace that Christ said He would bring in abundance. They are constantly in a state of covering up the next sin instead of experiencing the forgiveness and rest of God. They are probably in fear of their own salvation.
I can rest in the simplicity of Christ.
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Julie Anne – I like “flapdoodle” because it’s spoken in one of my favorite movies, The Night Of The Hunter (1955). Others: balderdash, claptrap, blarney, blather, hogwash, guff, tripe, drivel, gobbledegook, bilge, piffle, poppycock, twaddle, codswallop, bushwa, applesauce.
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B***S*** is a popular word for what has been offered by Swanson, but I do not like it for obvious reasons and some less obvious. Bovine feces has a use, it is a good fertilizer if composted or spread thinly enough, a natural form of recycling. More accurate would be AG, the gas that comes out the same orifice and from the same orifices of humans. Like BS it stinks, but it has no positive value or use. It is just an annoyance and an embarrassment. So what Swanton has done is a verbal F***.
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Applesauce, Jeff? Oh, that’s funny. I’ve never heard that one. Be looking for a surprise appearance of that one.
56 years – “Like BS it stinks, but it has no positive value or use. It is just an annoyance and an embarrassment. So what Swanton has done is a verbal F***.”
That pretty much says it for me, too!
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Yes, “applesauce” is listed as one of the synonyms for “nonsense” in the Oxford Compact Thesaurus. It’s one of three listed under “N. Amer. informal”; the other two are “flapdoodle” and “bushwa.”
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Truth be told, I’m not really surprised at Kevin Swanson saying this. He’s always had a . . . habit (?), no, problem . . . of saying inflammatory things. Though not at this level.
I remember when I first heard him I didn’t like how focused on modern sins while not preaching Christ to that situation. While we need men and women to stand up on secondary issues, it’s sad when that issue replaces the gospel (and it happens all too frequently). That imbalance unfortunately leads to lies like this.
Thankfully, God saves us even when we screw up massively for everyone to see. May God grant Kevin the grace to repent of this, and to demonstrate that repentance by a public retraction of this statement.
P.S. Julie Anne: it’s been a while since I last commented here (ironically, I believe it was on the movie that Swanson was most recently involved with), but I’d like to say that your son is very blessed to have a mother who is interested in spiritual things and talks to him about it. (My own mother’s interest in religion is essentially only what makes her feel good, not what’s true and honoring to God.)
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Jordan,
I think that Swanson fancies himself as the Theonomist shock jock equivalent of Howard Stern. His tone is garish. It is propaganda at its finest.
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Under Much Grace – Great comments! Wow! I love your thinking.
I’ve been homeschooling for 10 years now, and honestly, this is the first that I’ve heard of Kevin Swanson. However, there’s a reason for that. After some wary meetings with some of the leaders of the Oregon Christian Homeschool Association, I learned that I was not really on the same level with the people that this group promotes at their conferences. So, I’ve avoided the Christian homeschooling circuit all these years. I am so glad that I made the decision to stay distanced from this nonsense. However, it also saddens me that many families buy the rhetoric hook-line-and-sinker brought about by the likes of Swanson and regurgitate it down one more generation.
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Kathi, I really am bummed that we never knew each other when we lived in Beaverton. I could have learned a thing or two from you!
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When I mentioned the regurgitation of rhetoric to the next generation, I immediately thought of something Naked Pastor would draw. Children sitting at a table, pencils in hand, with their heads open exposing their brains. Mothers (or fathers – although, most likely the mothers – that is their duty, you know) are standing above them spewing out thoughts into their minds.
After following your story, I wish I would have known you too. We most likely crossed paths at some point and didn’t even know it!
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thanks for holding these people accountable. and wow.
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Kathi, i was in the same situation you were in regarding HS groups- I was instantly repelled to certain groups that held to strict codes of HS. So became a loner HS mom.
Trying to keep my sister, who is a HS mom, away from these patriarchal groups- scary.
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Trust4himonly – I was fortunate in the first 7 years of my homeschooling to be a co-leader of a group that was sponsored by a church. The other mom and I decided that we wanted our group to be open to anyone – members, non-members, Christians and non-Christians. No fees, no rules, just a homeschool co-op. We were fortunate enough to have a church that supported us.
My 8th year we went with a different group because we thought the church was selling the building and the two of us were burnt out. The other group was so full of rules and we had to sign a “contract” of sorts and pay a fee to be a part of it. Ugh. I hated it! It was such a bummer, too, because the church before ended up not moving and we could have kept the group going.
These past two years I’ve been somewhat on my own. My daughter did a science co-op with some friends and at least we were somewhat connected there. This year, with her going to school, my son is not connected at all with any other homeschool kids other than one friend that he plays online games with. At times it feels a bit “lonely” but more for me than my son. He has friends in the neighborhood he plays with. Since we are not a part of a church or a homeschool group, I have lost several connections with friends.
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I am sorry and I understand. I have been in that situation for about 4 years now. No friends; but the good thing is I have family here, so even though I do not get to see them all the time I know that they are there. The one thing that the Lord has been teaching me is to get out into the world more and mingle with those who are not Christians and I did not do that before; out of fear that I would become more worldly- crazy thought I know. If one has the Lord Jesus, why should one fear? Right? Seeing how the churches today have completely lost their marbles, it has been a breath of fresh air just to get out from my bubble and show my witness of Christ to those around me. As hard as they have been, these 4 years have been the most productive years I have ever had in my spiritual growth. I have met such wonderful like-minded people on the blog that are lights in the darkness. Praise God!
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Trust4himonly – We’re on the same page and learning the same things! It’s not as though we don’t “do anything” or interact with anyone because we’re not a part of a group. It’s just different now.
It has been sad to see that over the past 3-4 years that we’ve been out of church that not one person that we were “friends” with at church has worked to maintain any contact with us. We have tried over the years, but it seems that once you’re outside the club you’re forgotten. And, we all live within 5-15 minutes of each other.
We have, however, built some new friendships with people who are not Christians, and we have found these relationships to be the most honest ones we’ve had in a long time. Every once in a while I get in a “I’ve got no friends funk” but I snap out of it quickly.
I tell my kids all that time that if they leave our house only knowing a couple of things, I would hope that it would be: that I have taught them to be kind and compassionate to all people, to have a faith in God, and to find a job that they can sustain their own living on.
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Kathi and Trust4himonly, Remember that Jesus hung out with the sinners, and it really ticked off the religious folks. Relationships with people who don’t know Christ helps lead them to Christ. Isolation away from “the world” is not a good thing. The Apostle Paul went out into “the world”, and he was met with some pretty angry non-believers, but that still did not stop him. He didn’t teach people to be isolated in their groups. Those who spend too much time in a church building don’t do the world any good. Love your neighbor as yourself. Our neighbors are not only believers, but unbelievers as well. What does love look like? Isolation and fear? As Kathi states, be kind and compassionate to all people, having faith in God.
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Ed – that was another thing that helped me to detach from my former church. I put my kid in the choir at the public high school and actually met and engaged with :::::gasp::::: heathens – – and I actually liked them and got along with them. 🙂 I fully realize this is pseudo blog fodder of how I have gone to the other side. Oh well.
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Yep Chap… you are sooo right. Realizing that fully (for I always wanted to be out there but fear paralyzed me) has been an eye opener, and a humbling one.
Yeh Julie Anne one of the nice things about being a HS mom are the choices you have to expose your children to a lot of different venues. My son goes to Vanderbilt University every summer for Computor tech camp and this year…..oh no…he is going to spend the night with and “engaged with :::::gasp::::: heathens” – as you put it. Plus, I have my kids with public school activities, such as basketball, etc… so no I am not a HS mom who just sticks to Christian circles, even though it is important to have those fellowships with Christians.
This is the problem of Christianity today- it is all about the “cult” leader and personality of the church, NOT the fellowship to grow and mature as a body. This is wrong and not Biblical- sorry. These celebrity pastors are just a nuisance- please go away, please…….
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I’m officially announcing that due to embarrassment over the ridiculous nature of the issue that Kevin Swanson has posed, the pathologists and OBGYNs I contacted won’t give me publishable statements because the whole matter sounds ignorant. Put it this way: It’s basically like calling NASA and trying to get rocket scientist or an astrophysicist to give me a position statement on whether or not there is evidence to the moon being made of green cheese.
People I talked to had plenty to say, and one histologists’ comments couldn’t be posted even if he’d given me a statement, due to how rude it was. Informally, I was told that this was insane. No one wants their good name and professional reputation associated with this religious fringe-oid mess.
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I’m not surprised one bit, Cindy. It’s obviously ridiculous. Someone took down the broadcast at Swanson’s site. But I’ve not seen any retraction or apology (just like a spiritual abuser = SLSA). But it’s still in cyberspace, easily accessible with simple searches for those who begin to question. Let’s pray that more people who have been drinking the Kool-Aid change their drink of choice and start questioning and searching to find the truth.
The reality is that there are many pro-life doctors and scientists. If if was true that birth control pills caused dead fetuses to embed in “wombs”, don’t you think we would have found out about it from THEM, the scientists and doctors, not some conspiracy theorist who has an agenda to populate the world with little Christian warriors? GMAB – give me a break!
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