R.C. Sproul, Jr. and The Birth Control Movie

 

I was going to follow-up with a few notes in the comments section on the last blog post, but it’s easeir to make another blog post, especially when I show you what I found about R.C. Sproul, Jr. regarding his tweet.  If you recall, this morning he sent out this tweet:

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One person who challenged this tweet was Kenny Kerr who has a blog here (earlier blog reader opinemine noticed Kerr used Piper and Mohler’s names in his post to promote his point of view).   Sproul took up Kerr’s invitation to visit his blog and left this comment to help explain his short sweet.  Kerr and I both responded after Sproul’s comment (if the font is too small below, click here).

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Ok, so I thought that was going to be the end of that, but something prompted me to do another Google search:  R.C. Sproul, Jr. birth control and I stumbled upon a goldmine.  Yes. I found the reason why  Sproul is so adamant about birth control.  I’ve been noticing that people who tweet enticing tweets usually have an agenda.  I think I found it right here in the movie:  “Birth Control:  How Did We Get Here?”

Here’s the  blurb on the movie:

“This engagingly fast-paced documentary takes a historic look at the modern church’s public embrace and overwhelming acceptance of child prevention as biblical theology.

The reinterpretation of Scripture and rejection of our church history in the mid twentieth century allowed for responsible planned procreation. No longer was the raising of godly seed seen as the primary purpose of marriage; but now marriage was redefined as a union “intended for companionship and mutual spiritual aid“. This new view, brought on by the European spread of eugenics, brought rise to a departure from centuries of universal agreement among all branches of the church. In essence, the church was complicit in championing “privacy in marriage” to allow the liberty of responsible planned parenthood, heedless of scriptural authority or precedence.

How Did We Get Here?  took the team around the United States capturing captivating interviews with authors, historians, theologians, radio talk show hosts and others, such as Dr. George Grant, Dr. Allan Carlson, Geoffrey Botkin, Dr. R.C. Sproul Jr., Lila Rose, Kevin Swanson, and Julie Roys.”

Take a look at those names.  These are key people in the homeschool movement who promote the full-quiver lifestyle, Patriarchy, courtship, homeschooling, Reconstructionism.  It’s the same ol’ stuff, same people, same agenda trying to get you hooked into it with their spiel because they have the right interpretation of scripture and if you aren’t doing it their way, you are wrong.

So, there you have it.  His tweet was part of his agenda.

Oh, before I forget.  R.C. Sproul, Jr. did respond to some of my tweets here:

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So he says he’s not Reconstructionist.  Ok, I suppose it really doesn’t matter.  Here, you decide for yourself.    There’s one thing I’ve noticed about Reconstructionists.  I’ve never heard of any self-identified Reconstructionist.  I’ve never seen any church labeled as Reconstructionist.   But if you look at what they believe and watch their actions, it sure seems like evidence speaks for itself.  You know the saying, “If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s probably a

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DUCK!!!

photo credit: loquenoves via photopin cc

51 comments on “R.C. Sproul, Jr. and The Birth Control Movie

  1. Well as someone who was in the grip of a severe addiction to bulimia for years (now free of all that, thank God) I am deeply offended by R C Sproul Jnr’s tweet. He seems to have no compassion, not only for married women who may wish to avoid pregnancy for health reasons, or for couples who choose to use non-lethal types of birth control for other reasons, but for bulimics as well. The scornful tone that can be interpreted from his tweet it devastating.

    Moreover, the analogy between bulimia and birth control is NOT sound. With bulimia, the sufferer often binges on a vast amount of food, way more than a normal person would consume at one sitting, and then deliberately vomits it up. Sorry to gross you out, folks, that those are the facts. So it’s not just the intentional vomiting, it’s also the intentional bingeing that is part of bulimia. And the addiction usually develops because the person has found that this behaviour helps them (appears to help them) cope with deep seated emotional problems. [In my case, I became bulimic because I was sexually abused in my childhood.]

    In contrast, birth control is not normally practised in conjunction with an over-indulgence of sexual intimacy. Healthy married couples are having normal, healthy, mutually satisfying (we hope) intimate relationships, with no addiction or excessive self-gratification, nor with either of them using sex as a way to cope with suppressed pain and emotional problems.

    So the analogy is pretty shaky, Mr R C Sproul Jnr. And I suggest you give more thought to sufferers of bulimia before you start using their devastating disease as a teaching point for one of your pet doctrines. A bit more compassion from you would be most welcomed.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. You’re right, Barbara. It was a rude and insensitive remark intended to ruffle feathers so he could feed you his agenda. Of course as someone who formerly suffered from bulimia, his words would have special significance. What a shame he used such stinging words in a heartless manner. I hope he reads this.

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  3. Julie Anne – Re: your comment on the other blog: Except *most* (and this seems to be the general consensus) that use NFP would never equate it with artificial birth control (and Catholics would never refer to it as birth control at all – to do so with a practicing Catholic would result in a rather harsh rebuke), since the marital act even at infertile times is still “open to life” as it bars any means which would prevent fertilization and implantation of an egg. That’s the “official” Catholic position. Of course, I am familiar with those who believe that NFP is a “lesser sin” than other forms of “birth control”, and those who don’t see any difference in artificial or natural means of preventing or spacing pregnancies. And then, as I’ve mentioned before, there are those who go “beyond” letting “God space their children”, and use things like NFP and ovulation predictors not space children, but to have as many children as possible. Tell me there’s no agenda associated with that!

    I seem to remember hearing the comparison of birth control to bulimia before. I don’t think it’s original to him. It probably came from a Roman Catholic apologist.

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  4. Sometimes when I see pastors promoting something else(the birth control DVD) besides it being an agenda, I always wonder if it’s a way to make money on the side?
    I don’t know. I just know that some pastors can “hide” under their 4013c, have a non-profit “business” on the side that they are some how donating or “channeling” money to or vice versa where in the end, they are basically tithing to themselves and getting paid tax-free!
    Just a thought. But, I know the main issue is Sproul’s tweet was just ridiculous and insensitive…not to mention nothing close to non-judgment and love.
    I’m not trying to minimize the real problem of him being an insensitive jerk and hurting those who use birth control or have struggled with bulimia.
    Again, it was just a thought.

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  5. There are so many words in that documentary description that just hit me in the wrong way.

    “acceptance of child prevention as biblical theology” – Really? Churches have moved that far to make it a theological point? Well, I guess his has and I say his “theology” is way off.

    “fast-paced documentary” – Which makes me wonder if they really have all that much to say if you can go through a subject so quickly.

    I think these are my favorite words: “raising of godly seed” – I guess those men don’t want to waste their sex if they’re not going to get anything out of it. Forget enjoying being with your wife and expressing love to her. If there aren’t any “godly seeds” running around the house with snotty noses, it ain’t worth it!

    Shesh. Way to make a non-Biblical issue a “Biblical” issue.

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  6. Matthias – Reading your post reminds me I need to tell my personal NFP/Quiver-full story. If I can only quit getting distracted by people who tweet foolish things!

    Ed – I’ve been noticing the Catholic/Reformer thing, too. It’s baffling. They practically despise anything to do with Catholics, but wow, they seem to resemble them in many ways.

    Tammy – I have definitely seen people with a divided agenda for $$. One church we attended had an overhead in front of the sanctuary promoting the pastor’s books/materials that were being sold in the lobby. Yes, an advertisement to buy the head pastor’s books right before the service! And I remember them mentioning, “be sure to stop by the book table” during announcements – – really?

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  7. Kathi – it goes beyond that – – – with these groups you don’t waste any “seed.” I’ve read that Mrs. Duggar of the popular TLC tv show (what is she on 20 something kids now?) intentionally weans early so her cycles come back early to make more babies. In the Bible, you read of moms nursing for much longer than we are comfortable with here in the US. The wonderful natural “gift” that God gave us with nursing is that most of the time, it suppresses ovulation so that the mom can have an extended break from cycles/fertility. (I typed “most of the time” there because I’m one of those oddball moms whose fertility returned a month or two after birth despite round-the-clock nursing, but whatevvvvv).

    And once again, like we see the CBMW making the biblical roles of husbands/wives a “gospel” issue. I think these full-quiver folks believe that this is one of those “gospel” issues. It is of primary importance to them.

    BTW, this morning I noticed my daughter, Hannah, put her $.02 in on RC’s tweet and he responded to her. I joined in on the conversation.

    (https://twitter.com/rcsprouljr/status/294818795913109505)

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  8. Barbara, I, too, am a recovered bulimic, and I also found that part of his comment offensive.
    And to this statement: ‘No longer was the raising of godly seed seen as the primary purpose of marriage; but now marriage was redefined as a union “intended for companionship and mutual spiritual aid“.’ may I quote Genesis 24:67. “Then Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah’s tent; and he took Rebekah and she became his wife, and he loved her. So Isaac was comforted after his mother’s death.” Sounds like companionship to me.

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  9. Amen, BTDT. And I’m not sure how much of Solomon in the Song of Solomon was talking about procreating. They seemed to be pretty enthralled with body parts and the “interconnectings” of them. 🙂

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  10. My tweet was, ” That is just remarkably inane.” I don’t tweet often, but that was just too stupid for words. I enjoy your blog by the way. I’m a lawyer and I followed your legal doings with great interest.

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  11. Before anyone considers birth control to be a sin in the first place, it must be identified in the Law of Moses from Exodus 20 to the end of Deuteronomy. There are 613 laws. 1 John 3:4 defines sin as the transgression of the law [of Moses]. Therefore, those who consider birth control as a sin, must identify which of the 613 laws covers this topic. What is the #? Is it the 413th law? No…which is it? Oh, but wait, we are not under the law of Moses, so what’s up with those who preach that it is a sin to begin with? If we are Christians, there is no sin that can be counted against us, past, present, or future. I do know that Calvinists believe in once saved always saved. And if Mr. Sproul’s message is for the saved, then what is his point? Is he saying that those who practice birth control are sinning, and are not saved? So then, those who use birth control go to hell? Is that what his point is?

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  12. Juniper – that’s interesting. I personally know of a handful of lawyers who read here but most do not come out and say they are a lawyer. As you can imagine, I love the profession now. I found my case fascinating and now can see why people would want to pursue a law degree. When I received the subpoena, it scared the living daylights out of me. After the initial shock, I dove in trying to understand what was going on. It was very interesting and I was in very capable hands.

    “We” – as in Brad/Futurist Guy and I – primarily Brad – have a ahem little project that we have been working on that you might find interesting. I have to do just a bit more proofing, right, Brad? LOL

    Regarding Sproul – – these guys are revealing their true colors when they cannot leave a simple comment like that up there. He put it out for shock value, what does he expect? These patriarchal folks all talk about men being leaders, yet they show themselves to be weak in their responses.

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  13. Well, Sproul, Jr., apparently practices what he preaches. According to Wikipedia, he has eight children. (A disabled daughter died last year, and his wife died of cancer in 2011.)

    His father is also a postmillennialist. I don’t think Scripture supports the view that the world will become more and more Christian and less and less evil before Christ returns, though I would hope that it’s true. For one thing, Muslims are reproducing at a faster rate then believers in Jesus. That would certainly tie in with the wish for believers to have large families. Of course, God could cause mass conversions among Muslims as he will with Jews (Rom. 11:26-27).

    At any rate, Scripture, as well as observation, seems to point to the world becoming worse before Jesus returns.

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  14. Again I’m struck by the need for these clergymen to focus, not on the teachings of Jesus the Sage and what should have been the Society reforming message of the Sermon on the Mount, but upon beating women over the head with their Bibles, diminishing and devaluing their nature, individuality and intelligence. Such a need for these men to utterly control a woman’s sexuality and anatomy, not to mention her thinking and how she regards herself. Women who use birth control are women who are having S E X without “consequence” and that is against God’s Plan (TM), apparently. And the weak-minded still buy into this attitude out of fear of some foolish notion of God’s “punishment”.

    I simply cannot grasp the dichotomy between attempting on the one hand to control, limit, or prevent a woman’s access to birth control, and the attempt to prevent access to abortion on the other. One only has to look at the statistics from the “Red” States to realize that where “abstinence only” is pushed at the school level and more families claim to adhere to “fundamentalist” (for lack of a better term – perhaps, “Bible-Believing” is better) Christian beliefs, teen pregnancies are the highest and these States have among the highest rates of women under 19 seeking abortions.

    I find it striking that we’re still missing one of the key messages of Victor Hugo’s Les Miserables. Jean Valjean, acting under the guise of Monsieur Madeleine, is known by the community of Montreuil-sur-Mer as being not at all rigid and rather liberal in his social and religious attitudes except for one: He segregates his factory by male and female, and while his only requirement of the men in his employ is, “to be honest”, he naively insists that the women in his employ be morally pure and virtuous as he does his best to adopt and adapt to both society’s and the Church’s views on how an “upright” woman should conduct herself. This leads utterly to the degradation, shame and fall of Fantine, the mother of Cosette as well as to his own “fall”. It is his realization that because of him, Fantine has fallen into prostitution after having been sacked by a foreman thanks to the gossip of her peers, in order to allow her to continue to have her daughter “cared for” by the likes of the Thenardiers, that he intercedes on her behalf during an incident with a man perceived to be a respected member of the community, exposing Valjean to Javert’s scrutiny.

    If men through out the years had only conducted themselves with HALF of the virtue and morals they expect out of women, how far we might have come by now in the way we regard our neighbor and our planet!

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  15. Julie Anne, I’m flabergasted at this move within evangelicalism to condemn birth control. During the 2012 election I was surprised evangelicals didn’t call out Santorum on his comments on birth control. But I guess this kind of explains it. The partriarchy, homeschool, full-quiver, Calvinist, reformed movements have gained strength enough to be acceptable in mainstrean evangelicalism. Back in the day when I was entrenched in the movement, that kind of video would have been considered conservative Catholic fringe and no self-respecting mainstream evangelical would have touched it with a ten-foot pole!

    Notice the rationale for Sproul, Jr. It’s always, “…the key issue is what the Bible says.” My contention is these ultra-conservative notions (condemn birth control, quiver-full, etc.) are rooted in how the church views the Bible. They beleive it’s an infallible, heavenly, instruction manual, so if they find some verse(s) that implies marriage is only for procreation, they take that as gospel law and condemn anyone who doesn’t agree… (Apparently my wife and I have been practicing sexual bulimia for 28 years as we tried to space our four children and then I got a the big “V”, so what does that make me?). When you look at the Bible that way, as if Paul or Matthew or King David wrote a daily rulebook to be followed to the letter even by cultures far removed from theirs two to four thousand years in the future (and people like Sproul, Jr don’t bother to understand original meaning and application–there is no direct command against birth control that I’ve ever seen), then any nut who has a large enough audience can manipulate people to follow a course, because, after all, it’s in the Bible and you have to submit to it! This is what I call Bible abuse.

    Incidently, even people who do this, are what I call “selective literalists.” They’ll point to some verses and say, “see, we shouldn’t practice birth control,” and ignore other verses that argue “we are no longer under the supervision of the law,” or “love is the fulfillment of the law and whoever doesn’t harm their neighbor has fulfilled the law.” So, how does practicing birth control harm my neighbor? By preventing life to come into being? Then they should condemn single people for not marrying… that’s birth control too. Or condemn single people who wait ten years to get married. By that logic, abstinence is birth control…. even telling your spouse you have a headache could be construed as birth control!!! Jesus’ addage applies to such legalists… “They strain out a gnat (condemn birth control) and swallow a camel (harm their neighbor by spiritually abusing others).”

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  16. Of course on the other hand, I still can’t seem to grok the idea that supposed “sexual immorality” is still treated with greater scrutiny and importance than, oh, I don’t know…murder, theft, rape, child abuse, spousal abuse…yeah, Jesus forgave that guy over there for murdering a store clerk, but that gay guy over there who couldn’t live his life lonely and “chaste” will burn in Hell for eternity. I have to wonder if it should be legal to force this belief system on children, I really do. Sorry, I’m off topic here, I know.

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  17. Most people find the legal system both terrifying and confusing. It really bothers me that some churches use it as a weapon.

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  18. Awesome comment, Michael Camp! Don’t forget the expense of raising children in today’s economy. Does Sproul plan on taking up an offering to feed and clothe all the children he insists we be having? Assuming we can to begin with. Or is he so certain that God will provide. Perhaps he doesn’t read the news when it reports yet another domestic abuse/murder story of a family in financial straights. Talk about myopic.

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  19. Just a thought here, off topic, but related. I wonder if RJSJr’s birth control beliefs include animals. Does he believe in the spaying and neutering of pets or are they to be quiverfull too?

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  20. I would suppose they don’t take literally, “It is good for a man not to marry,” because that would mean that they are unable to sow their seed. No sex! How would they ever survive?!

    He would have been appalled at me during my last mammogram appointment. The radiologist asked me if I wanted a lead covering for my ovaries to protect them in case I wanted more children. I just laughed and told her to zap away because I was too old to start up on the baby side of raising kids again!

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  21. Michael – You, my friend, are in sin big-time with the disclosure of that “V” procedure you had done. Whoa. That’s serious. You are rejecting the blessings that God wants to give you. Most likely, they’d pull you aside to convince you of this fact and by Monday, you’d have your reversal appointment all set up (regardless if your wife was still capable of having children) because – remember how old Sarah was, don’t you? Repent, brother!

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  22. If food gives pleasure and energy, the marital act gives pleasure and drains all our energy! Haha! 😉

    Honestly, he’s not making sense any more.

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  23. Reconstructionist?

    You mean HANDMAID’S TALE FOR REAL types?

    “Outbreed and Overwhelm the Heathen” Quiverfulls?

    — I think I found it right here in the movie: ”Birth Control: How Did We Get Here?”

    And what are they charging per copy? (Plug!)

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  24. “If food gives pleasure and energy, the marital act gives pleasure and drains all our energy!” — Kathi

    Not to mention “Our Precious Bodily Fluids” — Dr Strangelove

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  25. “For one thing, Muslims are reproducing at a faster rate then believers in Jesus.” — Jeff Brown

    As I understand it, Islam has its own Quiverfull/Reconstructionist faction.

    “We conquer the lands of the Franks! Our wombs shall be our weapons!”

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  26. “Ed – I’ve been noticing the Catholic/Reformer thing, too. It’s baffling. They practically despise anything to do with Catholics, but wow, they seem to resemble them in many ways.” — Julie Anne

    I’m Catholic. And these “Reformers” seem to resemble only the DARK SIDE of Catholics. Like a Crapsack fanfic where they took out all the good parts to fixate only on the Dark and Edgy Crapsack parts.

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  27. Didn’t Jesus say nice things about eunuchs? Talk about birth control. Obviously, Be Fruitful and Multiply didn’t apply to them, and Jesus praised it. This is CASTRATION. Isn’t this birth control, too? Jesus didn’t have a problem with it at all.

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  28. It seems like the basic argument in this video is the church has always done it this way…(whew, crusades, inquisition, indulgenses anyone?) to change now is to follow the world into depravation. The same old fear of the secular that drives the ulta-fundamental into their fishbowls of homeschooling and separation. Even connecting birth control with “European Eugenics” adds that bit of Hitler-terror to the paragraph. I HATE these scare tactics.

    And I believe 1 Cor 7 shows us that sex in marriage is under the authority of each spouse….not a nosy churchman who wants to gain influence by naming sins and calling it God’s word.

    Headless UG: A Haindmaiden’s Tale is the scariest book ever written.

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  29. About all I can conclude from reading Sproul Jr (especially the last tweet that JA posted), is that he understands nothing about bulemia. What an insult to those who’ve suffered it.

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  30. @Headless Unicorn Guy: A Handmaid’s Tale should be required reading. Still, and I’m going to keep harping on this every chance I get, as you and I both discussed on the previous thread about Tomczek: How do people get themselves to such a state of mind that they can buy into this crap? Not faith, not Christianity (or any other religious belief). But THIS – these “institutions” that allow people who are interested in utterly controlling the LIVES of other people – how? Should we as a society allow those who in turn, disrupt and hurt other family members because of their own weak-mindedness, an “out” because we “just don’t understand” what life was like while they were members of these Churches? That we “just don’t understand” what they thought was at stake (the “souls” of their loved-ones for example)? Should we?

    A Handmaid’s Tale is the future of the US if we continue to except or make excuses for these institutions to flourish, since the form of Christian Doctrine they cling to has so much influence on voting Conservatives. You and I discussed in the other thread why those who leave these places still continue to “hang on” to a form of Christianity that is inherently misogynistic, even if they don’t practice what might or would be defined as, “spiritual abuse”. If you leave a place of where “spiritual abuse” is allowed to flourish, what good does it do to join another church that still holds onto the same type of belief system?

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  31. @HUC: I cannot imagine how anyone who is aware of and/or part of, the sort of spiritual abuse described in such detail on this blog, could in all seriousness, say *anything* negative about some other form of Christian belief. Really?

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  32. Just when you think you’ve seen and heard it all. Have a look at this site! T-shirts etc. that say “Birth control is for sissies!” and “I love to obey my husband.” Seems to be an affiliate of Vision Forum!

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  33. Well…to be fair, I am aware of at least one form of spiritual abuse that is practiced not so much in the Church, but by the parents of large Catholic families. I’d like to think that it is rare these days, but I knew a woman personally who was subjected to it: The belief that God commanded us to have a very large family (in her case, 8 kids) and that YOU (she was the eldest) don’t have time for school or a career. YOU have a responsibility to this family to help us raise your brothers and sisters. Yes, you have to work a part-time job to help us pay the bills. But don’t even *think* about going to school or working a full-time job or leaving home! How can you be so selfish? Not until all of your siblings are able to take care of themselves!

    At 20, she ran away. Her Dad did his best to pursue her, to threaten and bully her into coming back home, even trying to drag her from an apartment she shared with friends who were in College, except fortunately neighbors and her friends interceded and made him leave. She had to get a restraining order against him.

    I’ve lost contact with her – we’re both about the same age. This was 30 years-ago. I do know that in her case, when her parents tried to get their parish priest to help them, he had the good sense to tell them both that he wouldn’t do any such thing. Their belief system had been formed decades before and he didn’t support it.

    What was she supposed to do when her brothers and sisters were grown to such a point that she would have been “allowed” to leave? What job would she have been qualified for?

    Again, I don’t understand *any* so-called faith that brings families to such a point of existence.

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  34. Another one: Yes, Vision Forum would approve that web store as an affiliate. I couldn’t find any other information on who is running it, but the links on the side bar tell you all you need to know.

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  35. HUG – I was raised Catholic (in addition to going to Protestant church on my own as a teen) and you’re right – that is definitely the dark side of Catholicism. This day and age, I’ve heard most Catholics do not adhere to Vatican rules on birth control. When we were engaged, we took a Natural Family Planning class (approved birth control for Catholics – not to be confused with rhythm method) and we were the only young couple.

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  36. Hey all, my daughter, Hannah, is still debating with RC Sproul, Jr. on Twitter. I just retweeted one of Hannah’s tweets, so you should be able to click to see it on the sidebar. It’s quite entertaining.

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  37. “Well…to be fair, I am aware of at least one form of spiritual abuse that is practiced not so much in the Church, but by the parents of large Catholic families. I’d like to think that it is rare these days, but I knew a woman personally who was subjected to it: The belief that God commanded us to have a very large family (in her case, 8 kids) and that YOU (she was the eldest) don’t have time for school or a career.”

    AKA “Quiverfull with Rosaries.” The RCC has its own Complementarianist factions, too. I’ve seen them in action once or twice, with the same side effects of domineering husbands and silent infantilized wives. And my writing partner tells me about an RCC Reconstructionist fringe group trying to bring back Monarchy by Divine Right.

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  38. Pingback: Sexual Bulimia?????? You Can’t be Serious, Dr. Sproul!!!!!!!!! « Old Testament Studies Blog

  39. Pingback: Kevin Swanson Spews Nonsense from His Mouth to Further His Agenda | Spiritual Sounding Board

  40. Pingback: Kevin Swanson Fails to Provide Sources for Ignorant, Unsettling Statement | Spiritual Sounding Board

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