Tullian Tchividjian article at ExPastors.com, clergy sex abuse, suicide, repentance, restoration
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Only one month after Tullian Tchividjian remarried, he has publicly released a new article at a site for former pastors, ExPastors.com. In the article, The Freedom in Losing it All, Tchividjian shares lessons he has learned about himself since his sexual scandal.
The following is an excerpt from the article:
But as shocking and painful as all these losses were, my instinctive response shocked me even more: the rage, the blame-shifting, the thirst for revenge, the bitter arrogance, the self-justified resentment, the dark self-righteousness, the control-hungry manipulation, the deluded rationalization, the deep selfishness, the perverted sense of entitlement. Maybe these disgusting things which flowed from my depths with such natural ease shouldn’t have shocked me. After all, I was well known for talking about my own messed-upness, talking openly about my sin and selfishness, my faults and fears, my pride and pains.
In the article, Tchividjian also discloses a suicide note that he wrote (boldface in the original):
This disgusting truth about myself (and the desperate aloneness that I felt because of it) made me want to commit suicide. In my darkest moment (after researching for two hours the best way to kill myself), I wrote this:
Words cannot express the pain I feel for the hurt I’ve caused. It has become too much to bear. Based on what I’ve done and the pain I’ve caused, I have concluded that it is safer for all those I love that I just disappear.
Life without hope is death.
At the end, I tried. I really, really tried. God knows that my apologies and my expressions of love were real. So real. But what does that matter when the people you want so bad to believe you, don’t? I understand why they didn’t. Given my recent track record, why would they? So when it became clear that those I love most wanted nothing to do with me, the choice I needed to make became clear.
Initially, I got angry and defensive when I was told that I’m a monster, evil, disgustingly dangerous, etc. But it has sunk in and I finally believe it. I am all those things. Lord have mercy.
One final word to the church: when people screw up bad, try to help them. Do your best to sacrifice anything and everything to help them. More than likely, they screwed up bad because they need help. Don’t turn your back on them. Pursue them. Something isn’t right with them and they need help. Even if they have hurt you bad, do everything you can to help them.
“It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known.”
The article concludes with this message:
The gospel doesn’t just free you from what other people think about you; it frees you from what you think about yourself.
Here are a few preliminary responses on Twitter to Tullian Tchividjian’s new article:
And here are a couple of comments posted on the article:
Spiritual Sounding Board 
“After all, I was well known for talking about my own messed-upness, talking openly about my sin and selfishness, my faults and fears, my pride and pains.”
There it is. #Narcissism
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OK? And those are some gushing responses too, aren’t they? But let somebody skip church for a few weeks or talk back to her husband and bam, the hammer falls.
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“It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known.”
I truly hope that he seeks restoration, but this quote left me with a really bad taste.
This quote is from Dickens’ “A Tale of Two Cities” where a brilliant, but alcoholic attorney trades places with a completely innocent man who was condemned to death for being the son of a horrible aristocrat. The attorney is saying the masterpiece of his life is to die in place of a good man.
So, the note smacks of the same abuser as victim mentality so prevalent in the church. The tax collector who was converted had a different approach – all that I have wronged I will repay. I think it will be incredibly hard for him to seek that reconciliation when his circle of friends (e.g. Paul Tripp) are blowing smoke.
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I just can’t have any sympathy for Tullian. Pastors, teachers (my profession for the past 35 years), medical professionals, therapists, etc. are all held to a higher standard. We have a fiduciary relationship with our clients/students/patients that is sacred. If you can’t honor the fiduciary part, you need to be in a different profession. I believe God forgives, but if people in helping professions are prone to damaging relationships, they should no longer exercise that profession. The possible damage is just too great.
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“Initially, I got angry and defensive when I was told that I’m a monster, evil, disgustingly dangerous, etc. But it has sunk in and I finally believe it. I am all those things. Lord have mercy. ”
I’ve never seen a pastor admit to this. I hope he will have people who will have mercy and sympathy to help restore him to spiritual and emotional health.
I realize the comments and responses above probably come from years of hurt but if a pastor or leader can’t come out and admit fault, admit to suicidal thoughts and plans, where and how is the problem of shame, dysfunction and abuse to get better?
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OMG, always the center of attention.
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Maybe I’m just being cynical – if so, on my own head be it – but this comes off as something to tick off the “redemption list” as he barrels towards getting back to “star pastor” status. And as those first responses show, many people are willing – perhaps irresponsibly so – to welcome him back to the fold, to help him tick off stuff on that redemption list.
The fact that he played the pity card and included his supposed suicide note seems suspicious to me. Okay, maybe it’s an attempt to be “real”. But considering the theme of this post, it just feels like an attempt to “prove” all this self-hatred he talks about. Because how do you argue with a suicide note? “Poor guy is so broken up – we should just give him a break!” I’m not saying this was his intention. But he does come across as a narcissist, and this is a classic narcissist move.
I don’t see repentance here, just pride paying its dues.
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I honestly don’t think he could have said anything that would have made everyone happy. If he stayed silent, people would criticize. He speaks honestly, people not only criticize, they psychoanalyze. You cannot diagnosis someone as a narcissist from a few sentences, and I am not recommending having sympathy either. These behaviors have become more common in leadership, in my opinion because there is something that happens when a person is put in a position of power, especially over a church, that if they don’t get a handle over it right away, can escalate to a feeling of sovereignty, or of being almost untouchable. The problem also lies with us, who allow these people to have authority over our lives. That is a collective “our” not calling out anyone here.
Having been in a church, a very tight knit one, whose pastor had an affair with a member of the congregation, I must say he never ever came to the place of regret as Tullian did. He left angry and bitter, with no restoration, and went on to move to another state and pastor another church with no thought of those he left behind.
Yes, he is called to a higher standard. If we would stop making pastors Christian celebrities and hanging on their every word, and they would stop seeking to put themselves on some supreme level above all their peers, things could be different. But, we get what we create.
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He mentions blame-shifting and the like, but not specifics. Now maybe an editor took it out, but that’s an important part of repentance. So I’m uneasy with this.
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I do not share the sentiment that some expressed in the article’s comments that TullIan is a victim of the church shooting it’s wounded. He victimized women in his congregation, his family and others who went out of their way to help. He lied repeatedly when he had the chance to come clean. Because of that, nobody in their right mind would take this article at face value.
He needs to get off the stage, do some honest work for a while while trying to make restitution to those he wounded.
While off the stage.
Unless this is really about his ego, then this is what I would expect.
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Lee, I think it is literally impossible to be too cynical with these people.
That entire article was ‘poor poor me’ and he acted like whole marriage/ministry loss came out of nowhere when he took specific, deliberate steps on the way there! Ridiculous.
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He should take time away so that all involved can start healing. Instead, he uses a public platform to complain that others aren’t on his time schedule. When these guys screw up, they want immediate acceptance and do not want to deal with the painful consequences of their behavior!
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I got the impression that he apologised to his wife and she wouldn’t have a bar of it. Then he launched into “you really should help people like this”.
I got the feeling that it was a minor slap in her face for not ‘helping’ him by forgiving him.
Dude. What you sow is what you reap.
The first part made me cringe.
Jesus is The One Shepherd.
You were just a hireling for tickling ears.
If you truly love God you will stop making filthy lucre off his name and go get a real job doing something hard… like labouring.
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Why did he write that silly paragraph about how the church needs to sacrifice anything and everything (what does that even mean?) “when people screw up bad?” Don’t turn your back, pursue them, help them, even if they hurt you badly help them…It’s like he believes the church should do all this chasing after and work and pursuing while the person that “screwed up bad” is to be coddled because he is too screwed up to know any better than to have multiple affairs–“something isn’t right with them,” to use his words.
He insists on people not giving up on people that “screwed up bad,” and says to sacrifice everything- all while he remarries way too soon to someone with two minor children in her home and moves to Texas because he has a new family to care for.
Who’s going to be a dad to his 14 year old daughter in Florida who still needs a dad?
How come everyone but the one who “screwed up bad” has to do the sacrificing?
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Salty – Kim Tchividjian has been very silent on the case except for this comment:
Here is Tullian’s original statement about Kim where he throws her under the bus:
What Tullian failed to note in his pseudo confession is that he was also with another woman before Kim had an affair. I will not say that Tullian had an affair as he was in a position of church leadership which means that there was a power differential. This was clergy sex abuse. We can define Kim’s relationship as an affair because there was no power differential.
But for Tullian to leave that important information out and focus on Kim as the reason why he was with another woman (the 2nd that we know about) AFTER Kim’s affair is completely dishonest and actually cruel.
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Diane – she’s 15 years old today. Isn’t the timing of his article incredible? He gets the focus on his daughter’s birthday.
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I’ll bet his ex wife has heard the same stuff for years. TT exhibits classic narcissism. People are very drawn to their personas.
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Julia, I happily admit that I’m not any kind of psychologist, but I have experience with both narcissists and spiritually abusive leaders and I recognise certain patterns of behaviour. I draw these inferences from months of observation. But they still are only that – inferences. The fact that he has consistently placed his own redemption over and above others; the way he frames what happened; to me these are troubling indications of self-interest. But I digress.
As for whether we have a part in creating these kinds of problems in leadership – one has to wonder, which is the egg and which is the chicken in this scenario? Could it be that people ill-suited to church leadership – narcissists, for example – are drawn to leadership exactly because it places them in a position to be “untouchable”?
I sincerely hope there’s more to his repentance than this exhibition.
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“Could it be that people ill-suited to church leadership – narcissists, for example – are drawn to leadership exactly because it places them in a position to be “untouchable”?”
That is absolutely true in the case of my old pastor. He was very convincing, very suave, very persuasive. He refused to see himself as “just a man”, in fact being called that made him angry. He, without a doubt, wanted more than anything else to be in a position of authority. But we all saw red flags and did nothing. We heard things and did nothing. That’s just “how he was”. By the time we did something, it was way too late.
Also, I had no idea he remarried and left children behind. I think that should have disqualified him from being a pastor in the first place. That’s despicable.
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He has been in the church and he knows that repentance, particularly dramatic repentance, is currency. In a church context, I think any general rules about narcissists not being able to admit wrongdoing fly out the window – they will admit wrongdoing BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE. Because in that environment, it’s a way to gain popularity. It isn’t genuine.
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“Initially, I got angry and defensive when I was told that I’m a monster, evil, disgustingly dangerous, etc. But it has sunk in and I finally believe it. I am all those things. Lord have mercy. ”
I’ve never seen a pastor admit to this. I hope he will have people who will have mercy and sympathy to help restore him to spiritual and emotional health.
I realize the comments and responses above probably come from years of hurt but if a pastor or leader can’t come out and admit fault, admit to suicidal thoughts and plans, where and how is the problem of shame, dysfunction and abuse to get better?”
What you might not understand about TT’s teaching these past years is that we are all monsters and that is ok. Jesus hung on the cross for all our perpetual monster behavior…..so you can do whatever…..
Hide the children and lock up the silver.
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“You cannot diagnosis someone as a narcissist from a few sentences, and I am not recommending having sympathy either.”
Pattern of public behaviors over a span of years and what he taught? Oh yes –one can say narcissistic tendencies when they know what they are. He is classic.
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Sarah Hyatt,
Bingo! Yes, it is a currency.
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Diagnosed NPD Tony Jones, emergent leader, did something similar using his then 14 year old son that was quite vile when the backstory came out. He even made a film that was shown at a conference where he was supposed to be using his own son for cover.
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So when you are washing dishes with your spouse and they slam the dinner plate to the floor in anger and it smashes to pieces, can you forgive them? What if they say say they are sorry, but it was your fault because it was soapy? I am guessing you don’t do dishes with them again.
And the dish is still broken.
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“I’ve never seen a pastor admit to this. I hope he will have people who will have mercy and sympathy to help restore him to spiritual and emotional health.
I realize the comments and responses above probably come from years of hurt but if a pastor or leader can’t come out and admit fault, admit to suicidal thoughts and plans, where and how is the problem of shame, dysfunction and abuse to get better?”
………………………………………………………………………………………….
The issue, Sovann, is not with a church leader who’d really believe this and repent, it’s with the potential for further manipulation of the public from a master manipulator. He chose a very public stage to vent this and becomes so magnificent in his self-loathing, so melodramatic (“researching for two hours the best way to kill myself”) that it veritably begs for soothing strokes from adoring fans. It calls the attention right back to him, TT. We’re cynical not just because of years of abuse, we’re cynical because of years of Tullian. And cynical because we see people, such as Sovann, so quick to give him just want he wants.
When in the spotlight for which you lust, play up your goodness, your authority, the justification for your exalted position and wealth, and bask in the praise–and when you destroy it all by doing evil, hurting those whom you should protect, throwing your victims under the bus and are caught red-handed, then lay low for a very short time, marry the one whom you’d formerly cheated on your spouse with, set up the book deal, and make a show of great self loathing such that you get the spotlight right back and everyone feels so sorry for you–the perp, the one who’s now getting what he always wanted: praise and admiration and glory and sympathy and simple-minded people wringing their hands over concern for him (while simultaneously forgetting and/or shouting down his victims).
Cynical of Tullian, cynical of those who’ll come right to his defense under these circumstances. I think you’re being fooled and foolish.
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He releases this on his daughter’s 15th birthday? The daughter he left behind in FL as I understand it. That right there speaks to his self centered need to be in the limelight. Tells me all I need to know about him, what a terrible thing for him to do. I hope she has no way of finding this out, it is her day. We should all say a prayer for her.
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Can we not just be silent and work out our stuff privately? I’ve been guilty of working things out in public myself. It seems to be a characteristic of our age that everything be exposed.
I realized a long time ago that transparency and vulnerability are not the same. Transparency creates an illusion of vulnerability, but I am still holding the power by revealing what I want to reveal. Tullian Tchividjian affirms this himself when he states, ” After all, I was well known for talking about my own messed-upness, talking openly about my sin and selfishness, my faults and fears, my pride and pains.” He wasn’t talking openly as he did not disclose he was having two affairs. Transparency is still image management.
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“I realized a long time ago that transparency and vulnerability are not the same. Transparency creates an illusion of vulnerability, but I am still holding the power by revealing what I want to reveal. Tullian Tchividjian affirms this himself when he states, ” After all, I was well known for talking about my own messed-upness, talking openly about my sin and selfishness, my faults and fears, my pride and pains.” He wasn’t talking openly as he did not disclose he was having two affairs. Transparency is still image management.”
Excellent point. Smoke and mirrors.
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I understand I lack the spiritual insight many of these professionals have but what about the people hurt by this situation. When you are in the pulpit and in the public eye speaking the “word of God”. The times I have apologized, even when I really did not feel I did something wrong it was basically, I’m sorry please forgive me then I left it alone. I tried to make restitution in time and money if required or going to someone else explaining what happened etc but always at the person wronged I’m apologizing too behest. It takes much longer and its harder but I found it worth it. Of course I’m not a true Christian so I am wrong. At least that is what I was often told.
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Sovann, I know and care for you and your family IRL. However, I also know, intimately, that you do not understand the dynamics of abuse and narcissism. The info is out there (“The Verbally Abusive Relationship” and “Why Does He Do That?” are excellent starting points.) I feel that as a marriage counselor, and being familiar with ARMS, you should be a little more aware.
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I saw the screenshots of the comments on Twitter, Andrew so totally nailed it! ha ha… Oh, these ex-pastors… I guess the gift of pastoring doesn’t include the gift of discernment?
People sure can be suckers. A guy can freely offend and victimize people, wait a little bit, then get up on a stage and wail, “ohh, worm that I am! The chief of all sinners! A monster! The worst monster ever to have existed!” and then listen for the applause. No change of heart, no transfer of allegiance from self to Christ, no restitution, no nothing but a performance on a stage. And people will buy that for ‘repentence.’
Narcissists and gullible people fit together like a lock and key.
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Sorry. Tullian immediately got on facebook, and twitter, to give his groupies blow by blow insights into his Christian reality show. When did he have any time to do the hard work of working on his issues? Who was his therapist? The church just eats this up because it has so much drama, but unlike the Housewives franchise it is clean..no alcohol, no sexy details, no smoking, no dancing etc…So the church can justify it’s flesh by getting involved in these Christian dramas guilt free. Take your pick ..Swaggart, Tammie Fay, etc….The church is great at producing the drama favor of the year to keep the folks in the pew entertained! Christian entertainment brings in $$$ as well.
I say stick a fork in Tullian..he is done in my opinion. Move on, nothing new to see here. Someone needs to direct Tullian to BRAVO!
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FWIW, my Dad shacked up with another woman (who left her husband and teenage child in another state) when I was a teenage.
That single action caused so much upset in my young adult life.
The rejection and hurt was and still is hard to manage.
I hope Kim meets someone lovely and gets a second chance at ❤️. I hope Tullian pulls his head out of his own you know what and realises that the universe does not revolve around him.
His teenage daughter needs a Father.
He just come off as so pious.
“Oh how wonderful grace is!”
I think Tullian needs to tattoo Romans 6 onto his man bits. For him and his lady friends.
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“Sorry. Tullian immediately got on facebook, and twitter, to give his groupies blow by blow insights into his Christian reality show”
That is exactly his mentality! Better for everyone if he went away quietly and got a real job….with no stage.
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Surely he is deserving of being crucified [ as discernment blogs do so well – dryly ]. But then, aren’t we all deserving of being crucified? I know I am.
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“FWIW, my Dad shacked up with another woman (who left her husband and teenage child in another state) when I was a teenage.”
I am so sorry. The ripple effects of such selfishness is impossible to measure on the lives involved at the time.
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Seneca is back. Never met a charlatan he didn’t like.
Also using a violent and inappropriate metaphor for a guy who is still seeking the limelight after wrecking havoc on hundreds of people.
One thing we haven’t mentioned about Tullian is how he was taking people’s money under false pretenses. Tullian is a user
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However this blog is not about YOU, seneca! We are discussing Tullian. Nuff said.
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The thing is, he didn’t DO anything to these people! They are not the ones who should be forgiving him. It’s not pious to forgive someone for something they did to another person.
His kids. His ex. Some of his affairs maybe and their families. These are the people who were hurt. These are the people he needs to apologize too, instead of whining to a bunch of strangers to get validation.
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Seneca – We all are deserving of death. But that doesn’t mean that all of us are foolish enough to buy into just any superapostle’s public displays or foolish enough to go on a blog and sarcastically demean those who don’t buy into it.
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Also, that Ex Pastors site is full of people talking about how amazing Tullian is, without seeming to notice that he’s clearly NOT SORRY for anything he did! That’s kind of important.
One unrelated article they link was about protecting marriages by someone, I went to one of his other ‘protect your marriage in ministry’ articles (http://chucklawless.com/2015/08/9-ways-pastors-let-ministry-harm-their-marriage/) and found this which I thought Julie Anne might find interesting:
Others of the opposite gender turn to us for comfort. They seek us for guidance. They share their pain. They respect us as the “men of God.” The attention becomes attractive, and we convince ourselves that the next step is acceptable. That’s really stupid.
It is more than ‘really stupid’!!!
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He did not lose everything!! He needs to go away for a long time IMO. He is clueless about the gravity of his actions and does not need to be giving advice.
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To be honest I really questioned the wisdom of the man who runs that site in getting Tullian’s “story”. Then it occurred to me that there is a reason the site is called EX PASTORS..like that is something to be proud of. Surely if they ran their churches with the lack of wisdom, like on this site, I can see why they are the ex in the relationship. Maybe the guy who runs that site is one of Tullian’s groupies?? I am really sure the controversy will boost his readership. All I know is that the story causes many of his EX churches pain. Maybe Tullian gets off on causing others pain? Is there a name for that?
I am really, really over Tullian. It is like he doesn’t know when to quit for his own good. I feel for his new bride and all the stress his public story will cause in her life. I hope she realizes what a ride she is in for. Please God, don’t let there be any innocent babies brought into this mess!!
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She was apparently sharing it proudly on facebook, so I doubt she’s stressed. She’s probably completely taken in by him. Is he a narcissist? I wonder if anyone has asked him because I see traits..
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“One final word to the church: when people screw up bad, try to help them. Do your best to sacrifice anything and everything to help them. More than likely, they screwed up bad because they need help. Don’t turn your back on them. Pursue them. Something isn’t right with them and they need help. Even if they have hurt you bad, do everything you can to help them.”
One word to the church…Yes, help those who “screw up bad,” but give extra help to those who are affected by the screw ups. Don’t turn your back on the abused, pursue them. They never wanted to be hurt by the screwer upper, so do everything you can to help them.
That’s how the story should go.
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Oh, and church, don’t feel bad about turning your back on abusers who really show no desire to change. And, don’t fall for their lip service. Really focus on whether or not their words stick with their actions. Don’t be fooled, become wise.
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What’s interesting is when TT went to Willow Creek (Winter Springs, FL) and Pastor Kevin Labby, he was quick to say he was being cared for by Labby and I assume the elders there. Labby was also interested in making sure that Kim and the family was cared for financially, emotionally. Now where is Tullian going to church? Who is shepherding him or holding him accountable? Who counseled him that it was wise to get married so quickly and move far from his children?
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There’s a profound difference between feeling bad because you got caught and because you can no longer think well of yourself (and making a big fantastic show before the world of self flagellation so at least you can salvage something, and feeling bad because you hurt an innocent person and being genuinely contrite.
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“REAL or SPIN?”
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“Who counseled him that it was wise to get married so quickly and move far from his children?”
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If someone counseled him to do that, he had a foolish person for a counselor, and if he was his own counsel on that, then every morning when he looks in the mirror he looks at a foolish counselor. Having had a child grow up and move out, I can attest to the little hole in the center of your being at no longer having them around day-to-day. Simply can NOT imagine finding a honey willing to cheat with me, then moving away to start a new life with the honey and leaving my kids far behind. Might as well stick a knife in them, would hurt about the same. My wife grew up with dad thousands of miles away, and it wasn’t even the cheatin dad who moves in with his paramour many miles away thing–yet still, 40 years later, there are scars that do not heal, my wife is totally unsentimental, doesn’t like holidays, forget giving her flowers, considers that she doesn’t really have a family.
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TT reminds me of one of our goats, Leo. If you take hold of his collar, even very gently, he pulls and chokes himself and makes little strangling noises to show you how much you make him suffer– never mind that he wasn’t supposed to be in the garden anyways!
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Now where is Tullian going to church? Who is shepherding him or holding him accountable? Who counseled him that it was wise to get married so quickly and move far from his children?
He’s remarried already? Seriously?
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Yes, he is remarried. August 26. More on that later.
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I find it darkly hilarious that the people who complain about some Christians shooting their own wounded continue to shoot other wounded Christians whom they subject to their own self-righteous “othering.”
I remember many years ago when a wise old man told me that people become what they hate. He was so right, and that truth is why I will never again call myself “Christian.”
But, hey, y’all keep on hating each other, and I’ll just keep on shaking my head…
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“From murder to adultery, from liars to thieves, the Bible is chalk full of flawed, imperfect human beings all in need of Gods love mercy and grace.”
And apparently, God only uses the imperfect vessels There are no others.
Should Tullian EVER return to the pastoral ministry? Very tough question. Surprisingly, it’s the “Neo-Calvinists” mostly likely to oppose Tullian in a church pastoral role. People like McArthur, Piper, Mohler and Mark Dever are the men who would be opposed to Tullian’s return in that capacity.
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I guess you’re right, Eric, you know, when a celeb pastor gets thrust back into the spotlight a few weeks after he married the one whom he was having an affair with–not his first affair as pastor–after he left behind the wife and kids and gets all ready for his book deal and such, heck, who are we to judge? What do I know, I’m just the husband of a wife who was devastated and literally cried herself to sleep virtually every night for five years after mom and dad broke up when she was six (and she didn’t even have to deal with dad playing up the sympathy card in public and watching all these people come to his defense and shout down his victims and their defenders), a wife who still bears scars 40 years later.
Heck, what do I know, let’s all just get behind ol’ Tullian, poor ol’ “wounded” Tullian. If he wants to have a dozen affairs and leave a dozen families behind to die slowly inside, what’s that to us? Why God only uses imperfect people.
Thanks for setting us straight there, buddy.
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Eric:
Your comment makes absolutely no sense.
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OK, Now I am pissed. Julie Anne, if you want to delete my response you can but I am going to unload now. First of all, I am NOT Neo Calvinist and I don’t think Tullian should EVER be in a position of authority in the church. I would welcome him as a member though. I am not alone in my position. What you don’t know is that many many of us would even go so far as to doubt this man is truly a Christian and that goes way back before his sexual activities were disclosed. His behaviors even before these affairs came to light cause MANY to doubt his walk. Saying that only Neo Calvinists would have a problem with Tullian in the pulpit is a bold faced lie. You said it so you own it. You haven’t done your homework.
Second, as far as Christians shooting their own! SERIOUSLY!!?? WE are shooting Tullian? You have to be joking. Not only did he betray his wife and kids he also betrayed a whole church.There is a huge ripple effect to what he did. He was so aggressive and demanding as a Pastor that he almost 400 people left Coral Ridge and started another church. That is not counting the hundreds that left during the course of time to find another church because they couldn’t stand Tullian’s behaviors and his teachings.
He threw Doctor Kennedy’s daughter under the bus repeatedly and now we find out all that was lies. He caused Mrs. Kennedy a lot of personal pain as an innocent bystander but someone that helped build Coral up sacrificially. Members were told if you don’t like then leave…members that put all their blood, sweat and resources into making Coral Ridge into a church that reached unbelievers internationally. BTW those ministries that work internationally from Coral were shocked and now they are hurting as well. His behaviors had an immense financial impact on everyone. He promised one thing to a group in Coral and did another.
He caused so much dissension among brothers and sisters within Coral that the statement of shooting Tullian is laughable. Tullian fired a whole lot of people at Coral, many were older and couldn’t find jobs, and put his own cronies in those positions claiming that work should be done for free. Why didn’t anyone from Coral get the option of volunteering for the job? ANYONE that dared to question him was hassled or Tullian got ride of them. More dissension among the brothers and sisters.
He caused many new believers to doubt their faith, doubt the message of Christ and doubt themselves. He put Jesus’ name to shame and now Coral Ridge has a tarnished reputation in the Ft. Lauderdale community rather than being a beacon of light that it once was. SO WHO IS SHOOTING WHO IN THIS SCENARIO?? I think the guy in the pew is the one that got shot repeatedly and on many levels over and over and over. You all are nuts if you think Tullian’s behaviors just affected his family and the women he got involved in. Most of those people that are hurt by the ripple effect are trying to heal in their own personal way.
Yes, God uses imperfect people but that is NOT to be used as an excuse for any believer to cross over the sin line. The fact we are imperfect should humble us and make us even more dependent on the Lord and His Spirit rather than self reliant. If we screw up there are consequences. No imperfect person in the Bible ever got away from consequences. If you think differently then you need to grow up!!
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lydia00 wrote:
“What you might not understand about TT’s teaching these past years is that we are all monsters and that is ok. Jesus hung on the cross for all our perpetual monster behavior…..so you can do whatever…..”
It’s a sick and twisted religion that I’m glad to be finally free of.
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Julie Anne said,
I can’t manage to get married once (tho I was engaged at one time), but pastors who pork around with numerous people (while married!) manage to get married more than once.
They must not take marriage or marriage vows very seriously.
As for my view. I don’t think people who have had affairs should be church employees or work as preachers or write Christian-themed books, or go on Christian conferences (especially if they are paid fees). IMO, it just leaves a bad taste in one’s mouth.
Guys like this or Mark Driscoll should not be making any sort of paycheck having anything to do with Christianity. They should go back to school and pick up some other vocation. Become air conditioning repairmen, dental assistants, etc.
Speaking of careers – Nothing to do with Jesus or making money off Jesus.
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Eric Fry said,
Could you draw us a diagram and label it? I’m not sue I follow.
Unless you’re a Tullian Fan Boy tut-tutting us for thinking a pastor (ex or no) was wrong to hit on women in his church while he was their pastor. Is that where you’re coming from?
I don’t think I’m hurting Tullian. Looks to me like Tullian hurt his first wife and the women he cheated with. And his son.
Someone claiming to be TT’s son was on social media a week or two ago getting into unhinged, barely coherent rants at people for even politely asking about the TT situation or Tweeting links about it.
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P.S. Re: Eric Fry’s “you become what you hate” remark.
That’s also incorrect. I’m not a preacher.
Most churches are sexist, and due to their idiotic gender complementarian leanings, I could not be a pastor at their churches even if wanted to be.
Also, I’m not a married preacher who is having affairs with women/men in my church.
I also just noticed that Eric Fry “liked” his own post above 🙂
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A P.S. to my comment here:
“I don’t think people who have had affairs should be church employees”
I’d have to give that one more thought. I know I’m at least uncomfortable with someone like Driscoll or Tullian working in some kind of teaching / preaching / leadership role in a church.
If a church wanted to hire those guys to type church memos or sweep the sanctuary out, I guess that wouldn’t bug me so much.
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Kay, there is no way I am going to delete your comment. I know you are telling the truth because I have a number of e-mails telling me the same story stored in my files – from people who did not want to go public, but who wanted to share what they went through. I believe you are correct about the bully behavior, the firings, the my-way-or-the-highway behavior, the spiritual abuse, etc. This goes far beyond the clergy sex abuse scandal. Tullian has left a huge mess in his wake.
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Daisy, when Coral Ridge was leading up to taking a second vote on Tullian many “family” members got on social media to rant against the dialog. Someone claiming to be Gigi was a part of it as well. Disrupting the discussion is a common practice for them. Tullian has hired a PR firm, according to Throckmorton blog, so this could be a strategy dreamed up by his team. Obviously Tullian, and his team, want to control the dialog by any means. This is also common for Tullian. He often “preached” that church members needed to shut up about what happened inside Coral or they were gossiping, BUT he was free to go to Christian and secular media to control the whole dialog about Coral. Actually, most of what he said in a public arena were untruths about what the problems were. No one had problems with him not wearing robes like Tullian claimed. Dr. Kennedy himself never wore robes when he preached at the contemporary service at Coral. No newspaper took up the other side of the story because Tullian was berating church members from the pulpit to shut up. Tullian is a very clever man. Don’t ever under estimate his intelligence and survival instincts!!! He has many resources available to him that the common man only dreams about.
Soon after Tullian got defrocked he took to Facebook and Twitter to give us blow by blow takes on his suffering. When did he have any time to do therapy or the deep work of looking at himself? Anyone that questioned Tullian on his forums was attacked or put down in some way. At that point MANY of us said he was gearing up for his next book and he has proved us right. I am sure it will contain therapy language but his father was a PHD therapist, in private practice around Ft. Lauderdale, so the language could be what he heard around the dinner table growing up. Doesn’t mean he learned anything from all this and only time will tell. Surely Tullian should be on a probationary period for a long time!!!
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Julie Anne this is your blog and if I go over the top you can reign me in. I understand.
Team Tullian went into the children’s Sunday School class at Coral and told the kids if their parents didn’t back Tullian the adults were being disobedient to God. Who does that to kids??!! Tullian made it clear to the Choir that you can’t stand behind me in the choir seats if you are not on board with me. If you are not on board you are disobedient to God. One elderly Choir lady broke out in tears one time when Tullian gave one of his “talks”. He got up right in her face to give her a talking to. Just like a drill Sargent. This is the real guy behind the “broken and suffering” mask. Watch what Tullian does and not what he says! Make your decisions on what this man does in his life and not what sweet words drip from his mouth.
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Kay, I have heard stories similar to your choir story. There will be no reigning in by me. Ive been waiting for this for a long time. It’s time that the truth is exposed.
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One phrase struck me: So when it became clear that those I love most wanted nothing to do with me…
This would ring true if he had said ‘those I ought to have loved’. He didn’t love them, as shown in his actions. He betrayed them. If the righteous shall live by faith, he wasn’t. This makes me wonder if his faith was actually inherited intellectual assent to Christian doctrine, but of course this is only speculation.
The question he has to face is what has he got to do to put all this right in the sight of God? He has contracted an adulterous marriage. The immoral cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Should he break it up as an act of repentance? Or would that in itself be sinful as Jesus told us not to put asunder marriage by divorce? He’s trapped. The dilemma is caused by disobeying something Jesus has told us to do. He doesn’t tell us what to do if we disobey him, because he doesn’t expect his follows to disregard and disobey his teaching in the first place. Who’d want to be in a position of having to sort this kind of mess out?
It is important not to deny the grace of God to him in the forgiveness of his sins if he genuinely meets the conditions for this being granted, lest we deny it to ourselves. None of us is any better. This ought not to be confused with him returning to a ‘ministry’, not least because he could never again be well thought of by outsiders, and is not the husband of one wife. He is permanently disqualified.
A man preaching a sermon on the commandment not to commit adultery will not be made more authentic if anyone thinks personal experience of this would make him ‘uniquely qualified to speak real experience and truth into some lives who may find it difficult to hear from someone who hasn’t shared a similar fall’. I think this is a misguided way of thinking from one of his supporters.
I’d much rather have an ‘ordinary’ bog-standard pastor or vicar who you know has a contented wife he is loyal to. In other words, you learn from his example as much as from his words.
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“Pork around”.
Daisy, I just laughed very loudly.
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What concerns me about these “ex-pastors” is that they view shepherding as something which you cease doing once the payments ceases.
A TRUE shepherd IS a pastor without filthy lucre. Without the podium and without the need for Matthew 23 status. GOD provides the overseers, not seminaries.
This ‘ex-pastors’ site should be called ‘ex-salaried religious professionals’ because there is nothing ‘pastoral’ in their behaviour.
They are gurus.
Jesus would have none of it.
Muff, I get you. Religion sucks. But the God I know is so good and has filled my heart with love and peace and joy. I hope you still have faith in Him.
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“And apparently, God only uses the imperfect vessels There are no others.”
Just how imperfect? “Christian Pedophiles”? Christian Rapists? Christian Adulterers? Christian Embezzlers? I mean, if one can’t trust the Christians, what is the point? Fire insurance?
The false dichotomy of sinless perfection or charlatan. So the charlatans are excused and even celebrated because we are all such sinners…..
It’s why I don’t do religion anymore, either. It makes no sense because it basically serves to dumb down and excuse very bad behavior.
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Wait, what?
This marriage is far from his biggest problem.
I believe the proper response is ‘go and sin no more’.
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“None of us is any better. ”
Moral equivalency/sin leveling.
We do have free will in our choices to do right or wrong. It is certainly not easy or profitable, though, to resist the wrong. But we are not animals.
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“This marriage is far from his biggest problem.”
Bingo. Straining at gnats and swallowing camel’s….
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To all those (and you’re a minority) that seek to tear down Tullian and his story – using this forum as a place to spew vicious attacks and accusations, shame on you.-GregAtkinson from ExPastors
Guess Greg is only reading comments from his own blog to come to broad conclusions like above, like EXpastors is the only one talking about this, and he also monitors who gets on there to comment, which I think is unfair. I am sure ExPastors is getting more traffic than ever before by posting such a controversial piece which will boost their readership. When will he allow the victims/concerned parties to speak out on his blog ExPastors and create a real atmosphere of healing and balance? Does he have the guts to do this? Or is the good ol’ boy system in place outside of the church that we also see inside of the church?
Just for the record Greg…those of us that don’t agree with Tullian are not a minority. Get your head out of the sand. Please allow all people to talk on your blog in order to be truly fair and balanced. Otherwise you are contributing to the problem. You are an EX Pastor, like Tullian, which means you are bias. So let those of us that aren’t bias speak up on your blog!
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Now, just sitting back waiting for Paul Tripp and Steve Brown to chime in. Just saying…..
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“Now, just sitting back waiting for Paul Tripp and Steve Brown to chime in. Just saying…..”
And Wade Burleson who was a big cheerleader for Tullians cheap grace views.
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Gotta admit I am also blessed by some of Daisy’s comments, and amused by the one gentleman who liked his own comment. Ok….
For my part, it just boggles the mind that TT can persuade some woman to marry him just months after he was exposed as a man who had not only committed adultery once, but at least twice, and had thrown his ex-wife under the bus in doing so–and put the elders of the church he served in a rough position, too.
I mean, what a catch, no? He has no likely means of support, huge child support payments, and quite the history….OK, he may support himself by writing books for people who don’t clue in he’s not qualified to be a pastor, but honestly…
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FYI-Tullian comes from a wealthy family on both sides. Billy Graham is a multi millionaire. Tullian had pictures of his childhood home in Ft. Lauderdale on his twitter account and it was well over a million $$ from the looks of how large it was and how manicured it looked. His father seems to come from money according to some. They lived overseas for many years, including a stint in Israel, and actually Tullian has said that French is his first language. I personally doubt he is strapped for $$.
I agree with the rest though. Birds of a feather flock together? Bonnie and Clyde?
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They are not ‘ex pastors’ though! eyeroll You would think they would see the utter lack of concern for victims in his little article, but apparently they don’t or they don’t think it’s important.
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He’s probably a good catch, if you don’t mind that pesky adultery thing or if you think you are ‘special’ and it was only for you or his wife just didn’t understand him or what have you.
And there are marriages that start as affairs and end up lasting. I wouldn’t want to start one that way but I’ve seen it happen.
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or if you think you are ‘special’ and it was only for you or his wife just didn’t understand him or what have you.
Oh wow! Yes. I see your point. He is basically saying you are special because I am so special and only special people understand each other. Basically the woman is an extension of him in a sense. What a hook for a woman with low self esteem. Wonder if he did that with all of them to reel them in? What happens when the special-ness wears off? He cuts bait and runs around? Will there be a sequel to his story? Good insights, Lea.
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Try to do your best not to serve God and mammon. Matt 6 : 24
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Yep, that’s Calvinism for you: self-centred, self-righteous, self-important, selfish,man-centered, fake humility, me-me-me, etc., etc. Really, who listens to this false teacher and his despicable lies and his false gospel? And what is it with all these perverts in that man-made thing called Calvinism? All things sexual run like a rotten thread through its dark existence. Appalling!
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Kay; yes the family is wealthy, and he’s been successful, but quite frankly his mom isn’t dead yet, and for that matter neither is one of his grandfathers. Catch my drift? After a “divide by two experience” (divorce) on his net worth, I’d guess he’s prosperous but not flat out wealthy.
Pure conjecture on my part, of course, but having seen a few divorces in my time–thankfully my name not on the papers–I like to think it’s an educated guess. And even if he is flat out wealthy, I think his notoriety/celebrity might have a lot of women singing along with Reba in “Little Rock” after a while, if you catch my drift. So the quick remarriage just baffles me, even apart from the Biblical issues.
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Bubba, His paternal grandfather was a wealthy Swiss businessman. Gigi met his son when she was 14 as they vacationed in Switzerland during the summers. She married him at 17. Stephan was 21. In some bios out there, it was described as something of an arranged married by the families as they had little contact outside those vacation months. As Gigi said, our familiess had lunch together. She was the first daughter to marry.
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Salty wrote:
“Muff, I get you. Religion sucks. But the God I know is so good and has filled my heart with love and peace and joy. I hope you still have faith in Him.”
Let me be clear here. I hold to the tenets of The Apostle’s Creed and especially its supernatural components. The rest of the stuff? I pick and choose what I believe and what I disbelieve based on my conscience and moral compass within. To me faith is not certainty, it is hope. My hope is in Messiah’s very literal and very real person, nothing more, nothing less. I’m a lot like Dorothy Gale clicking her ruby slippers together…
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From that Ex Pastors guy:
Do we really have to consider multiple affairs a ‘speck’??? What on earth is their qualification for a plank?
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Also, do they not understand that speck’s and planks are different sizes? Where does this fit in with their ‘all sins are the same’ mantra?
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No, they don’t, Lea. I read in a comment that all sins are equal. A whole lot of sin leveling going on at expastors.com
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expastors,com’s support of Tullian speaks loudly to me why they are ex-pastors.
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“I’.m done preaching (forgive me, I’m a pastor and I take this ministry to the hurting and broken in our world very seriously). May we all (including me) take the PLANK out of our own eye, before even attempting to point out the speck in another’s eye.
Do we really have to consider multiple affairs a ‘speck’??? What on earth is their qualification for a plank?”
They always teach those passages wrong. It’s about hypocrisy being worse. But they use it for moral equivalency excuses.
I dont think TT was a hypocrite at all. People just did not take his teaching to its logical conclusions so they were shocked when he lived as he really believed. You see, he taught that Jesus obeyed for us on the Cross so we don’t have to. (The resurrection didn’t seem to mean much) Jesus justified and sanctified us all in one!. We don’t even have to attempt to be decent in any way!!! We can do whatever we want as professing believers and it will always be forgiven. If only Pol Pot had known this! . It’s a great thing….if it were true.
But……There are no such people as perpetually evil Christians. Justice counts here and now, too. In their religion it really sucks to be a victim. So, Get over it. Expect it, even! And stop sinning by not instantly forgiving and trusting the indecent Christians who victimized you.
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“I dont think TT was a hypocrite at all. People just did not take his teaching to its logical conclusions so they were shocked when he lived as he really believed. You see, he taught that Jesus obeyed for us on the Cross so we don’t have to. (The resurrection didn’t seem to mean much) Jesus justified and sanctified us all in one!. We don’t even have to attempt to be decent in any way!!! We can do whatever we want as professing believers and it will always be forgiven. If only Pol Pot had known this! . It’s a great thing….if it were true.”
Wait, what? I do not understand that at all. What kind of church is that?
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Related post up at The Wartburg Watch:
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2016/09/29/are-tullian-tchvidjian-and-expastors-playing-it-straight-time-to-get-real-and-grow-up/
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Juliaasked,
Tchividjian used to have a TV show called “Liberate” that came on every Sunday up until a year or two ago. I watched it every week. He was very heavy into the message of Grace.
You can probably get a feel for Tchividjian’s theological views by listening to some of his preaching, which you can find on You Tube:
_Tullian Tchividjian on You Tube_
Tchividjian’s views sound quite similar to me as those of TV preacher Joseph Prince, but for some reason I cannot fathom, Lutheran pod cast host Chris Rosebrough will defend Tchividjian out the behind and all night long (especially for his preaching on grace), but he is highly critical of Prince including for his preaching on grace).
I have listened to numerous sermons by both Tchividjian and Prince, and they sound the same to me, concerning Grace, so I have no idea why Rosebrough gives one guy a pass and wants the other guy’s head on a platter.
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Kay said,
I used to watch Tchividjian (I so wish this guy had an easier last name such as “Smith”!!) on TV back when he had a weekly show on TBN.
He talked often on that show about grace, how God loves us anyway – he also wrote a book about the topic and he went on various Christian shows to promote it. He seemed like a nice enough guy.
Knowing that he’s had affairs is bad enough but to find out he verbally berates choir church ladies is 10x more disappointing and shocking. I never would’ve guessed that the nice guy I saw on the weekly show could be such a jerk.
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Salty
I am glad I made your day! 🙂
I’m just trying to keep things PG-rated.
And it’s pretty accurate, too. Looks like Tullian was doing lots of porking around.
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Daisy, Tullian’s mother also has an arrest record in Florida. She attacked her second husband on a road and bystanders called the police. She also has a habit of going downhill then writing a book to remake her image so Christians bring her back in the fold. The template has been set. I know the Graham family are the Christian royalty, and untouchable, but facts are facts. The church should not make exceptions for the rich and famous among us. Many in the church simply cover up these things because someone has a famous last name. A lot goes on Florida that doesn’t make it beyond our borders.
The 59-year-old Florida woman, the eldest child of Rev. Billy Graham, is facing a domestic violence rap for allegedly choking and pushing her husband during a bizarre roadway dispute last Friday.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/billy-grahams-daughter-arrested
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“He was very heavy into the message of Grace.”
It’s the sort of grace that has them instantly defending people who do harm to others. That is what bothers me most. They play lip service to victims then insist on publicly defending the instant repentance of the “Christian” cons. As Lea said in another comment forcing such things or hearing nice things about the abuser hurts the grieving process of the victim. It stifles healing. These sorts of pastors do more harm than good. There is nothing wrong with calling evil, evil or wrong doing, wrong. But they claim grace overrides that. They assume everyone is rotten to the core so we cannot judge fruit.
It’s not about whether God loves the abuser. It’s about whether the abuser loves God. It’s their choice.
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Bike Bubba, I am also baffled too. I would think all of this controversy would be stressful on a new marriage. I would not want to be thrown into it.
My point about his family was that there are many options out there for Tullian that others don’t have. Here are some suggestions but no proof. Could TT be a trust fund baby? His family has a multitude of ministries they could easily hire Tullian quietly and pay him a large salary. This is one way the family could “support” him.
Keep in mind that Tullian travels in some weighty circles. He talked about being a child and driving in a car with Johnny Cash to hear grandpa speak. A pretty girl from average means/connections might find this circle attractive to be involved in. Dazzling women with his connections/Graham name is sure to impress. Women might find a marriage advantageous to their career. I don’t know for sure.
From Kim’s facebook page she ran out got a new hair do and a job.She has her own means of support as well. I don’t know what it is but I admire that she is keeping her mouth shut and living her life. She is showing some class in my opinion. I seriously question she had an affair since the only proof I have seen is that Tullian said it. Since he has a habit of lying and covering his tracks, I don”t believe what he says. I really wish others would stop saying she had an affair until proof is presented. We are all just throwing her under the bus for Tullian’s sake in my mind. I dislike that.
I wonder how Tullian could be so suicidal and be cultivating a relationship to be honest? Any sane woman would be encouraging him to seek help and not seeking a marriage with someone that displays such deep depression and suicidal tendencies. How did he manage to muster up the strength to woo her? That puzzles me. For many months Tullian was on Facebook and Twitter giving updates. There is nothing in his tweets that suggest he was that low that I can tell. He disappeared for months then reappeared to say he had back surgery so that is why the silence. Soon after he got active. I am not a therapist so maybe someone who is can comment.
I find a lot of this story baffling. Seems most are willing to give Tullian a pass and I think it really has to do with his Christian royalty bloodline in my opinion. I seriously doubt EX Pastors would have Tullian’s article on there if he was not a part of the Graham family. Any average Joe would have been passed over in my opinion.
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