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Ex-Pastor Tullian Tchividjian Speaks Out at Website for Ex-Pastors

Tullian Tchividjian article at ExPastors.com, clergy sex abuse, suicide, repentance, restoration


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Only one month after Tullian Tchividjian remarried, he has publicly released a new article at a site for former pastors, ExPastors.com. In the article, The Freedom in Losing it All, Tchividjian shares lessons he has learned about himself since his sexual scandal.

 

The following is an excerpt from the article:

But as shocking and painful as all these losses were, my instinctive response shocked me even more: the rage, the blame-shifting, the thirst for revenge, the bitter arrogance, the self-justified resentment, the dark self-righteousness, the control-hungry manipulation, the deluded rationalization, the deep selfishness, the perverted sense of entitlement. Maybe these disgusting things which flowed from my depths with such natural ease shouldn’t have shocked me. After all, I was well known for talking about my own messed-upness, talking openly about my sin and selfishness, my faults and fears, my pride and pains.

In the article, Tchividjian also discloses a suicide note that he wrote (boldface in the original):

This disgusting truth about myself (and the desperate aloneness that I felt because of it) made me want to commit suicide. In my darkest moment (after researching for two hours the best way to kill myself), I wrote this:

Words cannot express the pain I feel for the hurt I’ve caused. It has become too much to bear. Based on what I’ve done and the pain I’ve caused, I have concluded that it is safer for all those I love that I just disappear. 

Life without hope is death. 

At the end, I tried. I really, really tried. God knows that my apologies and my expressions of love were real. So real. But what does that matter when the people you want so bad to believe you, don’t? I understand why they didn’t. Given my recent track record, why would they? So when it became clear that those I love most wanted nothing to do with me, the choice I needed to make became clear. 

Initially, I got angry and defensive when I was told that I’m a monster, evil, disgustingly dangerous, etc. But it has sunk in and I finally believe it. I am all those things. Lord have mercy. 

One final word to the church: when people screw up bad, try to help them. Do your best to sacrifice anything and everything to help them. More than likely, they screwed up bad because they need help. Don’t turn your back on them. Pursue them. Something isn’t right with them and they need help. Even if they have hurt you bad, do everything you can to help them. 

“It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known.”

The article concludes with this message:

The gospel doesn’t just free you from what other people think about you; it frees you from what you think about yourself.

 

Here are a few preliminary responses on Twitter to Tullian Tchividjian’s new article:

 

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And here are a couple of comments posted on the article:

Tullian Tchividjian clergy sex abuse

 

 

 

152 thoughts on “Ex-Pastor Tullian Tchividjian Speaks Out at Website for Ex-Pastors”

  1. Kay, Gigi has been married 3x. Bunny (Ruth), 4. Franklin has a jet and is quite wealthy. I have an extended family member who works for him.

    The first time I met Graham was when I was about 8. I would not remember it except he drove up in a very fancy Limo. He officiated the wedding of some mutual friends of my parents. My mom played the piano. It was shocking to see a limo at church so it etched in my mind.

    The whole celebrity culture of Christendom is not great for families, IMO. I have also known many missionary kids who were a mess when they come stateside for school.

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  2. I hope my sentence It is important not to deny the grace of God to him in the forgiveness of his sins if he genuinely meets the conditions for this being granted, lest we deny it to ourselves. None of us is any better was not misunderstood as sin leveling. That believers should go easy on Tullian.

    It is very clear that some sins are very much worse in their effects than others. Blatant sin in Christian leaders is particularly serious as its effects are rarely confined to just one or two individuals. It can lead to the name of God being blasphemed amongst the ‘gentiles’ when it hits the headlines.

    What I had in mind is that a little Pharisee lurks within each one of us. In all evangelicals! Manifests in self-righteousness, I thank thee, Lord, that I am not like … I’m very grateful to a brother who very directly pointed this out in me on one occasion. I didn’t like it, but it needed to be said.

    We may not have broken God’s laws to the same extent, but one transgression is enough to condemn us (For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it), leaving us all in need of grace and forgiveness. In this sense no-one is any better than anyone else. We all need mercy. It’s terribly easy to forget this sometimes.

    It does not mean we should fall for the old ‘judge not lest you be judged’ as a way of covering up sins of leaders. Touch not the Lord’s anointed! Someone who is having multiple affaires or who has their hand in the till etc. etc. is not the Lord’s anointed, and ought to feel the touch of a large left boot from their ministry.

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  3. @Boston Lady, I agree with you about much of what Calvinism has become. Remember, though, that Calvin lived back in the time where religious enemies of the church were put to death for heresy, and the “c”hurch placed itself as the ultimate authority on every aspect of life. Much of what he taught was right on, but there are general problems. He taught an authoritarian view – that those under authority should submit to all “lawful” commands. But, he tempered that against the divine right of kings thinking, in the he felt it was okay for the lower magistrates to lead a rebellion against a tyrannical king.

    The problem today is that Calvinists have deified Calvin and Westminster and have doubled down on the authoritarianism and lack of grace that can be seen in their documents.

    I go to a Reformed church, but the leadership does not buy into everything Calvin and Westminster. They recognize that the Spirit is poured out on all believers and not just the ordained leadership. They recognize that beating up Christians on works is legalistic and abusive.

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  4. Daisy, Lydia, I don’t know whether to thank y’all or to be rather grouchy about the fact that you’ve now acquainted me with the riches and, quite frankly, rather messy lives of the Graham family. What a mess; I had always been somewhat uneasy at the “bigness” of his events, but had not expected his family to resemble something like Billy Sunday’s.

    I’ll be thankful to y’all, but sad. How’s that?

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  5. Julie Anne wrote:
    “No, they don’t, Lea. I read in a comment that all sins are equal. A whole lot of sin leveling going on at expastors.com”

    All sins equal huh? It’s a lie from the father of lies, whispered into their ears just like Grima Wormtongue would do.
    All the more reason I’m glad to be free from their sick and twisted religion.

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  6. “Should Tullian EVER return to the pastoral ministry? Very tough question. Surprisingly, it’s the “Neo-Calvinists” mostly likely to oppose Tullian in a church pastoral role. People like McArthur, Piper, Mohler and Mark Dever are the men who would be opposed to Tullian’s return in that capacity.” Seneca

    They didn’t have a problem with Driscoll’s lying and deceiving nor with Mahaney’s blackmail and covering up abuse.

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  7. “Daisy, Lydia, I don’t know whether to thank y’all or to be rather grouchy about the fact that you’ve now acquainted me with the riches and, quite frankly, rather messy lives of the Graham family. What a mess; I had always been somewhat uneasy at the “bigness” of his events, but had not expected his family to resemble something like Billy Sunday’s.”

    It would not be a surprise at all except for it was all pre internet. Information was much easier to contain in those days. Honestly, I never really understood the purpose for the Crusades even as a kid who attended a few. They coordinated with local churches which is why they were so big. It was kind of neat that all demoinations participated in one venue. But it was mainly Christians who were encouraged to bring unsaved friends.

    To say such things in Baptist Circles is not good. However a lot of the Reformed can’t stand him. Iain Murry in his book, Evangelicalism divided (or something like that) blames him for ruining American Christianity. Go figure.

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  8. I hear ya. I think a concentrated effort to expose predators is great. Keep in mind they have a machine behind them. Most folks fold when the machine kicks in. They have resources that the common guy only dreams of. I hear what you are saying though. I agree with most of it. I just think the church is becoming an unsafe place and that bothers me.

    Liked by 2 people

  9. Kay: Hate to tell you, it hasn’t been safe for a very long time (left this type of regime in 80’s; exposing the same items since early 80’s-hardcore)! Right now go read what posted on other site about ex-pastor’s she might remove because brutal)!

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  10. I suppose you are right. It is hard to admit. Even though I am not a direct victim of TT I feel sadness over this. It really is not a joyful thing to go through for any. On many levels I would like to see justice. Not revenge but justice.

    FYI! DARVO—>Etymology
    Acronym of “Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender”. Coined by Jennifer J. Freyd in “Violations of power, adaptive blindness, and betrayal trauma theory” (1997), Feminism & Psychology.
    Noun
    DARVO ‎(uncountable)
    Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender. A behavior of perpetrators of wrongdoing (especially sexual offenders), when accused of attacking their victim, reversing the roles of victim and offender.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/DARVO

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  11. What’s worse, is we don’t want to and in DENIAL over seeing Pastor’s/Priest as Warlocks and or Witches because we are NOT judging fruit and reading our Bibles and content to live without Glory, Anointing, and what Jesus talks about in his Word!

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  12. Lydia00 “What I had in mind is that a little Pharisee lurks within each one of us. ”

    Well, stop it. You have a choice. :o)

    After you …

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  13. KAS, a Pharisee must be male and a religious leader or it doesn’t work. People can have all the opinions they want but to count as Pharisetical, those two characteristics must be present.

    The question to ask yourself is why Jesus spent so much time going after the Religious rulers of his own tribe but not the pagan rulers.

    It would help you to contemplate on such as you seem to be very concerned about your Religious leaders today over their victims.

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  14. lydia00 – I doubt if any believer has not at some time thought to themselves ‘I thank thee Lord I am not like … ‘ Including you.

    Being blind to our own faults while seem them in others is an equal opportunties employer. It applies to both religious leaders and their victims.

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  15. “lydia00 – I doubt if any believer has not at some time thought to themselves ‘I thank thee Lord I am not like … ‘ Including you.”

    You keep moving the goal posts. You said “Pharisee”. That is specific. The above prayer you quote could be universal even to pagan gods. It has a determinist feel to it, too. Sort of like, ‘there but by the Grace of God, go I’. A typical saying in many circles but an insidious insult to both God and the human referred to.

    “Being blind to our own faults while seem them in others is an equal opportunties employer. It applies to both religious leaders and their victims.”

    So basically you are saying commenters here must lay out their faults/sins before they can point to the wrong doing or wrong teaching of a pastor public figure? A pastor public figure who has marketed themselves as role models and teachers of Gods truth?

    Got it.

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  16. I am saying that anyone – including commenters here and elsewhere – needs to guard against the willingness to see the faults in others but not to see their own faults.

    The parable of the Pharisee, and self-righteousness coupled with despising others, has a universal application. For every one who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted. This is not limited to Pharisees and tax collectors, they are just examples.

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  17. The question to ask yourself is why Jesus spent so much time going after the Religious rulers of his own tribe but not the pagan rulers.

    Jesus spent basically zero time going after ‘people who complained that religious leaders were doing evil like charging too much in temple’.

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  18. but not to see their own faults

    How do you know people don’t see their own faults, simply because they dont’ discuss them. They are not on topic!

    You would never be satisfied, even if everyone listed every fault they had, before commenting.

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  19. Lea – I’ve never suggested that anyone list their faults.

    I contend that people don’t see their own faults because if any poor soul suggests they do, meaning they should be aware that they also need grace and forgiveness, they run into a brick wall of resistance to the very idea.

    I must have seen different evangelicals turn up on a blog 5 or 6 times and at some point politely comment on the tone of the posts – incipient bitterness or whatever – and basically be told to shut up.

    ‘We can say what we like about Johnnies MacA and Piper …, but don’t you dare criticise us’.

    Not only so, but on one occasion a poster who addressed this direct was told she should ‘tone down your posts’. You don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

    Have you not noticed that expastors.com are not listening to criticism of TT because of nasty comments? They put commenting on hold.

    Anyway, I reckon there is a spiritual problem behind this, and the internet is probably not the place to deal with it, apart from pointing it out.

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  20. “I am saying that anyone – including commenters here and elsewhere – needs to guard against the willingness to see the faults in others but not to see their own faults.”

    So what sort of solution do you have specifically for people here. Be specific, please. Give exact examples. You have said listing our sins/faults first is not needed. Ok, then what?

    “The parable of the Pharisee, and self-righteousness coupled with despising others, has a universal application. For every one who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted. This is not limited to Pharisees and tax collectors, they are just examples.”

    So, again we have been over this ad nauseum. You think that pointing out wrong doing by “Christian” public figures who sought position and stages to model and teach truth of God is “self” righteous? I am assuming, once again, this is because you believe we are all sinners. By using the above example, you want me to believe that pointing out wrong doing by “Christian” public figures, who make a living off Jesus, is actually the sin of exhaling ourselves?

    Honestly, KAS, you sound like you were taught by CJ Mahaney.

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  21. “Have you not noticed that expastors.com are not listening to criticism of TT because of nasty comments? They put commenting on hold.”

    This reminds me of the abuser who blames the victim for “making him mad”.

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  22. This reminds me of the abuser who blames the victim for “making him mad”.

    The expastor people couldn’t handle the reality of Tullian’s deeds. It’s much easier to talk generically about ‘hitting bottom’ as if he wasn’t responsible for anything that actually happened when people don’t point out all the stuff he did in the comments.

    incipient bitterness or whatever

    LOL. When someone comes into a discussion and just says ‘ya’ll sound bitter’ that adds basically nothing. It’s a silencing technique and it is treated as such.

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  23. “LOL. When someone comes into a discussion and just says ‘ya’ll sound bitter’ that adds basically nothing. It’s a silencing technique and it is treated as such.”

    There is an irrational response that fits the irrationality of such a statement:

    You sound bitter over my bitterness.

    Hee Hee. Two pronged silencing!

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  24. You think that pointing out wrong doing by “Christian” public figures who sought position and stages to model and teach truth of God is “self” righteous?

    I’ve never said it is wrong to expose the wrong-doing of evangelical big wigs. Actually the opposite.

    I have only ever criticised self-righteous critics, who have no idea the damage they do to the credibiltiy of attempts to uncover pastoral failures and evil.

    As for examples, coarse jokes, stupid references to ADOLF HITLER or comparing church leaders with concentration camp guards, hard-hearted personal attacks implying someone is a lunatic, sometimes in defiance of blog rules. Group think and party spirit. Blatant hypocrisy.That kind of thing. Often a pretty good reflection of the group being criticised. And I’ve given some examples of this, there is no need to repeat this ad naseum as you rightly say, and I have no desire to do so.

    Even where there are brilliant and useful comments (I’m not saying it is all bad) a little leaven of the above type leavens the whole lump, and renders it useless.

    And no, I don’t believe we are all still sinners. We are saints, not yet made perfect. We are born again, born of the Spirit, but there is a battle between the Spirit and the flesh that will continue until we die. I think it is highly questionable whether serial abusers are Christians at all. I do not see how you can abuse someone and simultaneously have the Spirit of God, and a hallmark of authentic Christianity is that a person does not ‘go on sinning’. (If it means what I think it means, I do not believe in progressive justification.) You assume too much!

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  25. You sound bitter over my bitterness.

    I’m totally going to start saying that. You need put something gosspelly after it, though, like ‘you should go home and pray about that’.

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  26. Kas, I said specific as in the commenters here. Cut and paste. We have been down that road.

    As an aside, If you have ever read Shirers “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” and other in depth narratives, you would recognize some of the “early” tactics used to bring people willingly on board. Just think of it. The Lutheran church pledged allegiance as the party used Luther’s writings to convince. A few like Bonhoeffer saw through the tactics. But not enough did.

    The key is referring to the similar tactic. We can and should learn from history.

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  27. Lydia00: Fully 1/3 of the liberal state church voted against the NSDAP-sponsored “German Christian” party. As i have suggested before, Siemon-Nettos book “The Fabricated Luther” gives a more accurate account than Shirer. Also, please remember that the Old Lutherans played no role in the state church at all.

    As regards the “celebrity pastors”, they should be held to the same standards as anyone else. If a church condemns adultery, I do not see how it cannot also condemn pastors exploiting their position and their congregants.

    The bottom line is that the laity need to watch their pastor closely, apparently more so where the pastor is a “star”. Respect your pastor, but don’t let him be unaccountable. I would think that good pastors would have no problem with this idea.

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  28. Keith, we have been down this road before. The Lutheran Church, even in the 30s, was a quasi state sponsored church. Even when you mention a vote you make it sound like pew sitters voting. It was Very top down as German society was– attached to and always looking to strong leaders to follow. I know these things are insulting to present day Lutheran’s but they shouldn’t be.
    Thanks for mentioning the book. In a few minute research, it did not take me to Amazon but bizarre sites rewriting history to make mist of Luther own writings a myth because we just don’t understand what he really meant. Thanks but I have read enough Luther to know better what he thought of Jews. I’ll take the account of the agnostic Shirer who was there.

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  29. I said specific as in the commenters here

    I’ll stand by my comments as to the damage thoughtless commenting does, but although in my opinion it does exist here, it is much diluted. It is very much worse elsewhere. I have found some examples here though. And there is a definite tendency to close ranks if anyone (like me!) appears to be critical of another poster.

    You do have a fair point that I may have lumped others I have read (or read about) together in my thinking about the whole celebrity pastor verses watch blog scene. But there is a fair overlap in countering the excesses of patriarchy and ‘extreme’ complementarianism, for example, with a rejection of any meaningful differences in ‘roles’, so maybe I can be forgiven for considering one form of disobedience is being countered by its opposite, which is terribly common on this particular subject. (Don’t go there, it’s pointless!)

    I have in the past spent too much time reading men (e.g. Mohler) who it now turns out don’t just have feet made of clay. This is hugely obscured by some of their critics.

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  30. “I’ll stand by my comments as to the damage thoughtless commenting does, but although in my opinion it does exist here, it is much diluted. It is very much worse elsewhere. I have found some examples here though. And there is a definite tendency to close ranks if anyone (like me!) appears to be critical of another poster.”

    Why not share your superior views with those other blogs that are so much worse. I am sure they would benefit from your corrections.

    I agree or disagree with individuals. The only time I close rank is when an individual goes after a victim.

    I hope those who have been harmed by the church or spiritual gurus read our comments and come away knowing that there are all sorts of ways to try and keep them silent and fearful of speaking up. They may not do it properly, you know. (Sigh) Some tactics are more subtle than others. I hope they see yours for what they really are in the end: Protection for the platform abusers.

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  31. Why not share your superior views with those other blogs that are so much worse. I am sure they would benefit from your corrections.

    They suppress dissenting opinions.

    How do you get from my disillusionment with the likes of Al Mohler (despite some of his critics) to wanting to protect platform abusers? It don’t follow.

    I don’t, incidentally, rate Shirer as an historian. Alan Bullock is much better, or read a compendium of the original documents for the early part of the Third Reich.

    Some celebrity pastors, or more likely heavy shepherding gurus and their appointed elders do sometimes act like little Hitlers. The tendeny to Gleichschaltung or suppression of dissenting opinions (enacted in the early days of the Reich) is reminiscent of dictatorship, and can be mirrored in the mentality of some churches and groups that demand a high level of theological or other conformity. But no-one in the modern evangelical scene actually acts like Hitler.

    Hyper-calvinism where everything is predetermined is also dangerously close to Islam in its view of God, but such calvinists are not the Taliban or ISIS.

    In maintaining that these kinds of comparisons are gross distortions of reality, I am not trying to silence anyone, and would not dream of trying to do so.

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  32. Lydia00: Uwe Siemon-Netto was the former UPI religion editor, from Leipzig, who is much closer to the events than Shirer was. Siemon-Netto is not some quack. He received a Ph.D. from Boston University. You are absolutely wrong if you are asserting that the Old Lutherans were part of the liberal state church. They left it after the forced Prussian Union.

    By the time of the vote between the Bekennende Kirche and the Deutsche Christen factions within the EKD (the State Church, a church of mixed Calvinist and Lutheran confessions, but dominated by liberal theology) the Old Lutheran churches had been independent for decades. Despite this, 1/3 of the delegates at the assembly voted against the so-called German Christians who mixed racism and paganism into the already diluted Lutheran, Calvinist and Liberal views of the EKD. It was called a Kirchenkampf, or church battle, because Bonhoeffer, Niemoeller and others fought the monstrous hydra which took over the EKD. In any event the EKD had long ago ceased to be an orthodox Lutheran body.

    I really encourage you to read the book. i do not know the sites you are referring to, but it is available from Concordia Publishing House. If you would like, e-mail me and I will send you a free copy. Or if you have a third party where i can send the book to so you can maintain anonymity, i would be happy to do so.

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  33. Some celebrity pastors, or more likely heavy shepherding gurus and their appointed elders, do sometimes act like little Hitlers…

    But no-one in the modern evangelical scene actually acts like Hitler.

    KAS, you realize you just contradicted yourself there, don’t you?

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  34. Have you not noticed that expastors.com are not listening to criticism of TT because of nasty comments? They put commenting on hold.

    Of course we noticed that, KAS. We probably noticed it before you did. What I didn’t notice were the “nasty” comments, though. There were some pointed and critical ones, which the oh-so-caring ExPastors probably would’ve had a tough time answering. (I made a few myself, under a different screen name.) ExPastors.com had it coming, they way they presented Tullian’s story — those who actually know the man and experienced life under his “care” were bound to come along and offer some perspective.

    Either exercise due diligence, or expect to be called out on it.

    Liked by 1 person

  35. KAS, you realize you just contradicted yourself there, don’t you?

    Well done. 🙂

    I should have put little HItlers in quotation marks as “little Hitlers”. Too late now.

    I personally try not to get too bothered by the occasional non-serious description of those who have swapped pastoring for celebrity status as being like said dictator. It’s breaking Godwin’s Law, but then we are not under law.

    What I do object to is the diminishing of the horrendous suffering Hitler caused, and the evil he induced multitudes to engage in, unprecendented up to then, by equating it with what goes on in evangelical churches. They do not actually act this way, they don’t have a Gestapo nor do they order the execution of opponents, they do not set up concentration camps or administer Zyklon B leading to an agonising death 20 minutes later to men women and children. Fortunately only rarely, but I have come across comments that could only be described as vile in this vein. Where this suffering is used to vent anger at some well-known ‘ministry’. The only defence would be pig ignorance of what went on back then, but such ignorance is itself indefensible.

    Having said that, maybe it would actually be better to refrain form this kind of talk altogether. Perhaps I should actually be bothered about it even in jest.

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  36. What I do object to is the diminishing of the horrendous suffering Hitler caused, and the evil he induced multitudes to engage in, unprecendented up to then, by equating it with what goes on in evangelical churches.

    I’ve said this before but… no one (that I can see) is comparing his or her sufferings to those of Holocaust victims. They’re only comparing the attitudes of some current evangelical leaders to those of tyrants. There’s a difference.

    They do not actually act this way, they don’t have a Gestapo nor do they order the execution of opponents, they do not set up concentration camps or administer Zyklon B leading to an agonising death 20 minutes later to men women and children.

    Yet.

    Personally, I’d hate to see what would happen if Mahaney, Mohler or Piper ever had the powers of the state at their disposal. Their current treatment of victims and critics (though comparatively mild) does not speak well of them.

    The only defence would be pig ignorance of what went on back then, but such ignorance is itself indefensible.

    Tell you what, KAS. When a Holocaust survivor comes onto this blog and objects to the comparison, saying that it diminishes the scope of his or her suffering, I’ll take that seriously.

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  37. Tullian slept with two women not his wife. Tullian lied, then deflected. Now he has remarried and there is no way this fits with the Scritural (does anyone remember the Bible?) allowances for divorce and remarriage. This according to the Lord Jesus Christ (I think Jesus understood the Gospel.)

    He has been removed from two ministries he started. The first ministry he could have sought reconciliation but did not.

    Tullian spoke a lot about the “Gospel.” Some called his teaching “hyper-grace,” though the grace aspect has always been more of Tullian’s opinion than exegesis. It is time now for Tullian himself to step aside for the Gospel’ sake.

    To his followers, I suggest they think about the Bible’s qualifications for leaders stated in the Scriptures. Tullian cannot hold a Biblical office ever again. Yes, he can be forgiven, thank the Lord Jesus, however, he will not ever be above reproach.

    For me, if Tullian is truly repentant, he will humble himself under the mighty hand of God and submit the the just consequences of his deliberate choices and sinful actions.

    It is a pity he has allowed himself to become a “shipwreck.” It is only by the grace of God any of us are kept safe. Yet, I believe it is the right and decent thing for him to step out of the ministry, get gainful employment, and allow the men and women who have remained true and pure to carry on the great work of the Gospel.

    His place is no longer in the pulpit. Those who continue to encourage this improper involvement must put away their sentimentality and encourage Tullian to move on with his life and serve Jesus in any way still available to him.

    I would strongly encourage Tullian to publicly end the debate and the division his actions have caused. For his sake and his family, I hope Tullian realizes that he will always be associated with his sin whenever he speaks publically.

    No books, no series, and no attempt to financially gain from this horrific betrayal and tragedy. Be grateful for Jesus’ forgiveness and live a simple and quiet life.

    In His grace and mercy,

    Kenny

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  38. “What I do object to is the diminishing of the horrendous suffering Hitler caused, and the evil he induced multitudes to engage in, unprecendented up to then, by equating it with what goes on in evangelical churches. They do not actually act this way, they don’t have a Gestapo nor do they order the execution of opponents, they do not set up concentration camps or administer Zyklon B leading to an agonising death 20 minutes later to men women and children. Fortunately only rarely, but I have come across comments that could only be described as vile in this vein. Where this suffering is used to vent anger at some well-known ‘ministry’. The only defence would be pig ignorance of what went on back then, but such ignorance is itself indefensible.”

    It is ignorance on steroids not to take a very deep look into the factors that took a supposedly civil society to that point. What where the presuppositions? Why did they believe lies? Why were the majority fooled early on until it was too late and power consolidated? They even had the writings of a revered religious leader to affirm the position on Jews.

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  39. ‘Personally, I’d hate to see what would happen if Mahaney, Mohler or Piper ever had the powers of the state at their disposal. Their current treatment of victims and critics (though comparatively mild) does not speak well of them.”

    Based upon their total focus on authority and their past behavior as leaders, I am very grateful for our so called Deist Founders. Our Founders were not that far removed from Puritanism. It is interesting to read what John Adams had to say about them.

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  40. Two factors that helped pave the way for Hitler were the theories of Charles Dawin, where everything is a struggle (‘Mein Kampf’) in an amoral universe, and the rise of liberal theology. Which country spawned this new way of looking at the bible as just a human document, with no moral absolutes?

    I don’t think worring about what might happen if Piper & co ever got political power has any point; concern over who might actually get power is a much more pressing concern.

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  41. Oh brother. Here we go. German society was always top down oriented. Obeying the ordersoff the authorities was considered moral. The breakdown of that order after WW1 just paved the way for what they craved. It was not about independent thinkers taught to make free will responsible choices. But good Germans obeying leaders. It was more like, who are my leaders to obey?

    Hegal’s dialectic was more influencial than Darwin! Most of what came out of German academia was more influencial in England and later the USA.

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  42. The tragedy of Tullian T’s story should serve as a warning to us all. It is the fruit of the false gospel he believes, a half-truth, effectively an untruth. Yes we are saved from the penalty of sin by Christ’s death on the cross and God’s grace, but we are also saved from its power by the same grace. That is what’s missing, as is any reference of the need to fear God. It is the whole counsel of God’s word we need to heed not just the parts which make us feel comfortable. Scripture in numerous places exhorts us to repent and flee from sin (not just feel sorry), to pursue holiness (without which no one will see the Lord) and to deny self and take up our cross daily. The road to life is, according to Jesus, narrow and difficult but by God’s grace and power we can walk it.

    Peter M

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  43. I would disagree KAS. After considerable research in this area, I believe that very same anti-Christ spirit is still at work today in this post modern era, working harder than ever to fulfill Almighty God’s prophecy leading to Jesus’ Second Coming.

    Prophecy unfulfilled would make our Holy LORD a liar, which He is not.

    Dean Good has an interesting talk concerning the state of affairs concerning visible Christianity, entitled, “As Goes The Church, So Goes The Culture.” He touches upon a few points that are worth pondering and praying over.

    And Hitler DID value the filth of the pseudo theologian, Martin Luther, in highest regard pertaining to his hatred of the Jewish/Christian/Gypsies/ Weakest and Helpless People of his day. Our Scriptures clearly state, out of the heart, the mouth speaks, thus the hatred Luther felt for a group of people is not inexcusable.

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  44. Katy,

    Wow, yes, I fully agree with your whole comment.

    I fully realized about ten years ago that prophesy must take place, whether we like it or not, whether we disagree with it or not.

    For example, one prophecy already fulfilled, of course, but it sets the example, is that of the Prophecy that Jesus will come from the family line of Judah.

    So, to me, this is a spiritual issue between God and Satan, having nothing to do with Onan, who didn’t want to have kids.

    Satan did his best to make sure that prophesy of the birth of Jesus did not happen, and he tried in many areas of history, but failed. This was one of them, because in order for prophesy of Jesus to come from the family line of Judah, since Onan was not a willing participant, and neither were his brothers, Judah had to sleep with the widow of Onan. There was no other hereditary way to make it happen except through that means. Conclusion, prophesy fulfilled.

    Satan vs. Jesus, we fight not against flesh and blood, but spiritual forces. Satan interferes with man to thwart prophesy, but God intervenes to make his word stand.

    At least, that is my understanding.

    Ed

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