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Pastor David McGee of The Bridge Church publicly excommunicated or disfellowshipped four members via his Facebook page.
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On Thursday, Pastor David McGee of The Bridge Fellowship in Kernersville, North Carolina, posted a comment on his Facebook account publicly naming and “disfollowshipping” four church members. I repeat – this was done PUBLICLY on Facebook, not in the context of a church meeting among church members.
Check this out:
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David continued with his comment by quoting about 30 – thirty, not 3, verses justifying his actions. Some of the verses were quoted in different translations and guess which verse was included? Of course Hebrews 13:17 (“Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account.”), but take a look at the last verse quoted. Why do you supposed he ended with this verse?
Heb 13:7
Remember your leaders who first taught you the word of God. Think of all the good that has come from their lives, and trust the Lord as they do. NLT
You can read more about this story, including video here: Couple says they were banned from Kernersville church by pastor on social media
I like to dig a little bit when I read words. Do you see the contradiction in the following two comments by Pastor McGee? Take special note of the tithing references. The 2nd comment was posted 16 hours after the first comment.
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There were other comments claiming this was not really about tithing, but if it wasn’t about tithing, then why is it mentioned at all?
Here you can see some pushback and then a member defends her pastor. I noticed the word “covenant” in this comment, but did not see a membership covenant at the church website.
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When people publicly speak out against a pastor, they are frequently labeled as the enemy.The pastor is on the right side and anyone who questions him, is labeled as divisive, disobedient to God and His Word:
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I found another contradiction. Here McGee says he won’t defend himself publicly:
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But wait . . .now he is going to the media to share:
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This little note is revealing. And 31 people liked it! Yea, it’s really important that your pastor has lots and lots of friends . . because that makes him right and reputable and all Christiany.
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Of course we do not know all of the details of this case and can only make conclusions based on what we see publicly. But what I see publicly is troubling.
I have heard of stories where church members have been abusive to pastors. We often talk only about abusive leaders, but that is not always the case. Even if members are abusive, we need to ask how does a shepherd appropriately handle members who are divisive? If Pastor McGee is correct in saying that these folks have been divisive, how should a pastor respond? Do you see godly fruit in the behavior?
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Spiritual Sounding Board 
I expect nothing less, David. My former suing pastor Chuck O’Neal and his minions stalk me and like to discredit me wherever they can. ::::yawn:::: I’ll sleep fine tonight.
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I’m starting to think that hey, maybe *I* should become a pastor! Apparently I can start a church with zero credentials, and I’m a pretty decent guitar player, and I have a pretty convincing public speaking voice. This David McGee guy is making way more money than I am; I’m obviously in the wrong line of work. Who wants to donate to my church startup? Send money to my paypal account: justkidding@notreally.com Large denominations only please! I’d like to collect a million dollars by noon tomorrow.
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…Um, “in the name of Jesus,” of course. Yeah, that’s what I meant. Praise God! I can feel that million dollars rolling into my bank account right now.
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Just some reference, the church’s name is a reference to a Navigators Gospel tract I used way back when, and his speech and demeanor (I listened to one sermon; JA, calculate the confidence interval! Ha) reminds me of little so much as an aging campus pastor–OK, he’s actually an older Christian musician, so close but no cigar on my part.
The sermon? Well, true to form for a campus pastor/traveling musician, he made the passage–from 2 Cor. 11–into a simple Gospel presentation. He’s more or less changing Paul’s plea to retain the Gospel they’d learned (people didn’t object to Paul because they agreed with what he was teaching, after all) to a plea for people to accept the Gospel in the first place.
Translated for here; he may excel at getting people their old Navs/Crusade mood from college, and may do well at leading people to Christ. But in this case, I’m wondering if he simply lacks the skills needed to administer a church Biblically–but is rather just rehashing the college experience with bigger budgets.
Put in terms of what Dash is arguing for, it is debateable whether he’s “apt to teach”, as Scripture requires. And that might be helped by some seminary of the right sort.
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The biggest issue for me here, music and flawed Biblical interpretations aside, is David McGee’s lifestyle. If he really does own a home worth in excess of $1 million USD and drive a Lexus, then like so many other heretics of the “Prosperity Gospel” (Joel Osteen, Creflo Dollar) he is not conducting himself in a fiscal manner in keeping with the responsibilities of a good shepherd. He should be living modestly within the means of an appropriate income duly appointed by a God-fearing Board of Directors, and the rest of that money should be going to help people: feeding the poor and all the rest of it.
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The bonds, the large house, and buddies with the coca cola president are all things I can say I have also had awareness of. The music aspect is very interesting, in that I agree it’s contrived to bring about an emotional response. Most think he’s fabulous, what I don’t think they know is his vocals go through an auto-tuner…..
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The worst is not the incompetent musicianship, the screeches of a hyena that pass for vocal stylings, or, perhaps, the pathetic exegesis, the most grating thing from the pulpit is the mega pastor who thinks he’s funny. My goodness! There must be some book somewhere they pass around entitled “Pastor’s Book of Catastrophically Bad Jokes”. And everyone laughs at them, I suppose because they think they’re going to hell or missing out on some heavenly (or more likely earthly) reward if they don’t. This does the pastors no good, they come to think they’re funny, a regular Richard Pryor or Lenny Bruce. I have never seen a funny pastor, not one.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/opinions/outlook/worst-ideas/prosperity-gospel.html
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I found it interesting that the late J. Vernon Mcgee and Chris Rosebrough were mentioned with approval here. The former explicitly, the latter perhaps implicitly. Why are they liked? How does their approach compare to Mcgee?
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No, no , no Dash. I will be the pastor & you can be the minister of music and “almost famous in the 80’s” traveling guitarist. Just make sure you are back on Sunday for your cut of the offering, or I might be tempted to embezzle the whole offering ( since I’m not in an accountability group) for a trip to rehab or a new Lexus. I heard you can get a Masters in Devinity for $79 from Freedom University but it takes a week if you pay by check. The only question is can I be the pastor and NOT join the church?
I just hope Julie Anne doesn’t post any Google reviews on our church.
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Dash & Scott – If you guys get to form your own money and adulation-grab cult, can I be the naysayer who’s the first one excommunicated?
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Nope, sorry Truth Detector we are saving that for the first person to criticize Dash’s guitar playing. Well, on second thoughts if you post google reviews………
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Ha, hey I’ll be glad to criticize anything, but if he plays well, I don’t think I can do it. I was frankly more interested in criticizing your preaching. : )
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Patrick Reece. Your comment makes sense and I don’t know P. McGee’s reason for lashing out publicly. I can’t say I agree with his actions but that’s between him, God and those involved. I am just very disgusted by the bashing that is going on and find it unnecessary, but not surprising. I too am hurt by many leaders who have disobeyed God and have led many astray, but I would not cast stones and spread vicious rumors as many have here when there is no solid proof. If there is solid proof then let it come to light and justice will be served one way or another. Jesus showed mercy to Mary Magdalene knowing full well she was guilty of adultery, did he not show mercy and did not allow her to be stoned? No, because everybody who wanted to stone her were guilty of a different sin (John 8:7-11). As all of you know, there are no degrees of sin as some denominations wrongly teach, sin is sin. I see no mercy shown here, but rather rude and hurtful comments about his preaching, his lack of credentials and guitar playing. Are you kidding me?!!! So he has an $800,000 home? $800,000 in this market is nothing these days. Why not bash Joel and other pastors who boldly steal from the masses who own billion and trillion dollar homes. PLEASE!!!
For the record, I am not a follower of man, but of Jesus. That may have been me at one time but the scriptures in the Bible have taught me otherwise as well as the selfish leaders and congregations I was once a part of. Also, a degree doesn’t define a man, God defines us, not a piece of paper, for those who are also bashing P. McGee’s credentials. I don’t there is anymore to say but leave this sad situation to God and sign off with how 2 verses from God’s word instructing us how to handle ourselves. God bless!
Galatians 6 (NKJV)
1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. 5 For each one shall bear his own load.
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2 Timothy 2 (NKJV)
24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
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“As all of you know, there are no degrees of sin as some denominations wrongly teach, sin is sin.”
Oh, sure. Little white lies are just as bad as murdering someone. No. That’s just sin-leveling.
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Angela, your unfortunate attempts to defend Mr. McGee only serve to highlight the damage done by heretical leadership. And in case I didn’t make it clear enough the first time: OF COURSE Joel Osteen is a scumbag. The “prosperity Gospel” is a widely acknowledged heresy by the consensus of many legitimate organizations. That doesn’t give McGee a free pass. You make me sad, you really do.
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Actually Angela when your “surf dude” pastor took “church discipline ” to Facebook he proved himself an idiot. He also placed the matter in the public realm. Not everyone in the church world is going to be dumb enough to protect or honor an elder that doesn’t rule well according to scripture. Since he clearly can’t handle himself scripturally (according to the two verses you quoted above) why should we have an ounce of respect for this man with a long history of lies and deception. The guy is a total fraud, unfit for ministry according to the Word of God and taking advantage of nieve believers that can quote scripture but not see how their leader misses the mark by a wide margin.
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“As all of you know, there are no degrees of sin as some denominations wrongly teach, sin is sin.”
No, I don’t know this at all. All sin can be forgiven by Jesus at the foot of the cross, but what you are saying is sin-leveling. A murderer can face life in prison or possibly a death sentence. Someone who writes a bad check will get a fine. Probably poor examples, but it’s all I had off the top of my head.
$800k for a home where many of the congregation may not have a home, but required to tithe to support someone else’s lifestyle is just wrong. The Lord is in charge of any vengeance that need be. Justice, however should be taken care of sooner than later. If this man is leading people astray, he is guilty of murdering the soul. Those who preach and teach will be judged more harshly than those who don’t. I wouldn’t want to be many of the preachers including Joel Osteen and other prosperity Gospel teachers on judgment day. Dash is right: McGee doesn’t get a free pass.
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Angela –
Don’t you understand that Mary Magdalene was a defenseless woman set upon by abusive church leaders who held all the power in a public forum?
How can you not see that this is exactly what David McGee did to the Gates and Yarborough family, which included two women, Amanda and Christiana (who must know a lot about what it feels like to be Mary Magdalene)?
And then you use that scripture, of all scriptures, to defend the leader who was trashing these people on a public forum after they’d left?
If you can’t see the irony in that, Angela, you are blind and brainwashed. For the sake of your faith and spiritual health, please think. Please seek Jesus, please get out.
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Scott & Dash, I love you guys. You are killing me here. I can’t give you any money right now, but if you will let me join your church, I will get back into my work as a lady of the night to support your ministry. ( ;
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One more thing: How much mercy did David McGee show to Amanda and Christiana? How would you like to have him send out a mass posting about you and destroy your relationships with friends? Where’s the mercy, Angela?
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I disagree, Angela. This man is your pastor and if he’s going to do this to 4 people, he could do it to you. He does not own you. The way he treats members IS your business because he is supposed to be working for you!
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“So he has an $800,000 home? $800,000 in this market is nothing these days.”
What world do you live in Angela? That $$$ is on the backs of Christians who support his ministry.
Do you really believe that a 800,000.00 house is what Jesus would live in?
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“The median home value in Kernersville is $146,600.”
http://www.zillow.com/kernersville-nc/home-values/
$800,000 is a big chunk of change for this area. Not sure where Angela is referring to when she says “$800,000 in this market is nothing these days.”
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“So he has an $800,000 home? $800,000 in this market is nothing these days.”
What world do you live in Angela? That $$$ is on the backs of Christians who support his ministry.
Do you really believe that a 800,000.00 house is what Jesus would live in?
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Of course, we all know that $800K is a very nice, high-dollar home in this market, and it appears that he has at least one other home. $800K alone is 4 to 5 times the average home value in the U.S. today, it’s the kind of house that wealthy people live in, millionaires. Angela isn’t even trying to make sense at this point, she’s just grasping at straws.
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Apparently, Angela doesn’t know anything about property values or might be in the same tax bracket as Mr. McGee. What happened to living a simple life and giving to widows and orphans? Good catch, BTDT.
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Keith Blankenship, J Vernon McGee loved God, loved people and loved The Bible and knew it inside out. He was a plain spoken, rubber meets the road kind of pastor. His radio program ” Thru The Bible Ministries” ran for decades and is still available
.if you google him you will see all his books and you can access his radio programs.
In the 80’s I akways started my day listening to him. He always made me laugh and feel closer to God. I recommend him to everyone. His down to earth preaching and love of people will put a lot of present day pastors to shame.
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David McGee evolved, around a decade ago he said he felt uncomfortable talking about finances from the pulpit. Then he begged Phil Cooke to help him grow the ministry (who also helped Joel Olsteen and I believe Joyce Meyers). You see the connection? Now if you go to the church website under “donation” and look down under “Living a Generous Life” you will read him telling people all the bad things that will happen to you if you don’t tithe and the good things if you do. Basically causing people to give out of fear of being cursed. The churches statement of faith says they dont believe in posistive confession but isn’t this some form of it? Also Phil Cooke did a mini interview with him in which he said he secretly went away for a couple of weeks to a rehab center to relate to the men and this birthed his vision of starting the Bridge House Ministry. I found it strange he secretly went MIA and to a drug rehab place. For anyone who still doubts the value of his homes the Forsyth County Tax Records clearly show his and Nora’s name on two homes here in Kernersville (one valued at over 200k and the other over 800k plus I believe a 2008 Lexus).
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@ Dash :
Thanks for the Keaggy vid. And yes he’s definitely top notch, no question there. Truth be told? It’s pretty and a very ethereal type of sound, but I’d rather listen to Muddy Waters do Hoochie Coochie Man or Joe Bonamassa do his thing at venues all over the world.
This is probably virtual heresy for some of you here, but I believe that music can be for music’s sake and not necessarily have a Christian message.
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Well, I sure hope so, Muff Potter, I sure enjoy a lot of music and jam it loudly, and even brake to the beat of the music when coming to a stop at stoplights (and embarass my kids).
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“I believe that music can be for music’s sake and not necessarily have a Christian message.”
Muddy Waters and Joe Bonamassa are great in my book!
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David McGee simply followed Protestant protocol. He’s being a good Protestant. How many citations do you want from the Calvin Institutes and writings from Martin Luther? This isn’t an abuse issue–it’s a Protestant issue.
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OK, here’s an example of one of Mr. McGee’s sermons, chosen more or less at random from his vast archives:
http://www.crossthebridge.com/Media/teachings.php?request=select&id=3720&teacher=Pastor%20David%20McGee&title=Galatians+3:19-29+Light+a+Candle&play_type=audio
I couldn’t make it through 5:00 minutes of this crap. It’s rambling, disjointed, self-referential, and just plain boring. Mostly it’s Mr. McGee telling inexplicably disjointed personal stories with no apparent context with or relation to the supposed scripture verse at hand. I tried skipping around and at about 22:00 in I happened upon a segment where Mr. McGee claims that there are Ph.D.’s who can prove Creationism. Um, no, that never happened, dude- they’d have won a Nobel Peace Prize and it would be on the front page of every news outlet on the planet.
Mr. McGee’s preaching is an incoherent mess. If Angela is representative of his congregation, I feel really sorry for these people because they’re being misled by a guy who isn’t even focused enough to successfully pull off a sidewalk con playing Three-Card Monty. He’s not even sharp enough to swindle a 4th-grader out of lunch money. How on earth has he managed to convince several thousand people that he’s a “Man of God”?
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OK, the bit about Creationism is at 9:30. McGee uses the irreducible complexity argument which has been thoroughly debunked. It’s fine to argue in favor of Creationism, but don’t try to pretend like there is a scientific basis for that which is based solely on belief. You do a great disservice to both Christianity and science alike by trying to pretend as if one has anything to do with the other. If the existence of God could be proven scientifically, what need would we have for faith?
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“In the 2005 Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District trial, [Michael] Behe gave testimony on the subject of irreducible complexity. The court found that “Professor Behe’s claim for irreducible complexity has been refuted in peer-reviewed research papers and has been rejected by the scientific community at large.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity
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Dear Angela (in case you’re still reading),
Defenders of Marc Driscoll and C.J. Mahaney have said much the same thing before now. And I say to you the same thing I’ve said to them: It doesn’t really matter how many people have been saved through your precious pastor. No amount of soul-winning outweighs or excuses spiritual abuse and browbeating leadership. And if abusive behaviours are ingrained into a church deeply enough, all those notches on the pastor’s Bible won’t keep the church from collapsing, just like Mars Hill did. The truth will come out, and the pastor’s empire will come crashing down.
Or is that the end result you’re afraid of, and the reason why you’re protesting here so shrilly? Trying to fend off the inevitable?
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“As all of you know, there are no degrees of sin as some denominations wrongly teach, sin is sin.”
No, I don’t know this at all. All sin can be forgiven by Jesus at the foot of the cross, but what you are saying is sin-leveling.
^This.
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Dash – Thanks for providing the humor here! You know, for about $25 you can get yourself an ordination certificate online. I only know that because my husband got one so he could marry some friends of ours. He now goes by “Most High Reverend,” but he hasn’t cashed in on that yet. If you need another associate pastor, he could brew the beer used for communion.
Julie Anne – If Idolatry Exposed’s Twitter feed indicates what’s going on there, the (you know what) will most likely hit the fan soon.
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So he has an $800,000 home? $800,000 in this market is nothing these days.
Hellooooo. I live in “this market,” and, believe me, $800,000 buys a heck of a lot of house hereabouts.
A freaking mansion, in fact.
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I am new here, but I want to share my experience with “The Bridge”. A few years ago I went to The Bridge to see one of my favorite Christian Rock bands Petra on their reunion tour. Immediately when I walked in the place I could sense something wasn’t right. I grew up in church all my life as my grandfather was a pastor for a church. The vibe in the building among the people was strange. I couldn’t put my finger on it, but I was there to see my favorite band and I was happy. I purchased the VIP experience so I could meet the guys and get them to sign my records. They were awesome and the concert was great.
One thing that sort of put me on alert was when Pastor D made an appearance at the meet and greet. Immediately I could see the way the members looked at him and it was strange. The makeup threw me off as well. But having done plays in school I knew that people wear mascara in order to accent their eyes. It still threw me off. Pastor D came out with the band to do a guitar solo with the band and for me it ruined the song. However, at the end of the show he did an alter call and that’s when my radar went off. I looked around at some of the members and it seemed they were in a trance.
Having studied Jim Jones and the Jonestown massacre, I could see the signs. I wanted out of there and fast. Inside I felt the urge to run. No this wasn’t the holy spirit compelling me to go forward, it was God telling me to get out of there. I have been a Christian for a long time, and I could feel Satan moving in that place. I was scared. I had to get out. It was a long alter call and I kept getting more and more nervous. Once he said Amen I was out like a shot. From that moment on, I started my research into David McGee. On one website I read that we was with Bon Jovi. I can tell you he wasn’t ever with Bon Jovi. The unfounded lies started to mount. I was glad I got out of there and prayed for the members there that they see the wolf in sheeps clothing soon and leave.
Then came the report on the news about the members being kicked out of the church. Once again it sparked my interest. I started reading further and investigating. He truly is an actor. He is stealing from others and living large. Has anyone checked tax returns on he and the church? What are his charitable contributions? Pastors are supposed to lead their congregation not fleece them. I pray for the member of the church daily and hope the wool is lifted soon.
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Dash, I’ve got the funny idea that a “court of law” is not where you go to find scientific information. Just sayin’.
Also, if you take a close look at the papers that “debunk” Behe, they’re talking about a hypothetical generation of one protein sequence. Behe’s examples are dozens, so what you’ve got there is more or less the biology community closing ranks around the standard hypothesis and persuading the judge. No surprises anywhere there.
For that matter, “debunking” a theory usually means that the thinking of the debunkers is sloppy and the theory is safe and sound–as you’d expect from such a sloppy word as “debunking” to begin with. It certainly is in this case.
And really, we don’t need to bring the theories of origins into this. If we go back to what Paul notes in Timothy, it is sufficient to note that Mr. McGee shows clear signs of being a lover of money, has failed to use Biblical methods for church discipline/has been quarrelsome, has applied church discipline over fairly trivial matters, and mishandles Scripture and is not apt to teach.
Isn’t that sufficient reason for not choosing a pastor, or for removing him once installed?
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@Bike Bubba- Fair enough. The Creationism bit just caught my ear is all; it seemed like a truly odd digression given the context of Galatians.
I will say, however, that the day a scientist comes forward with a genuinely supportable theory of Intelligent Design, I’ll be one of the first in line to read it. And that person would win *ALL* of the prizes, not just one or two. Let me know if that ever happens.
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Bike Bubba: Good comment. I would say Behe could tangle with the best of them. I still don’t understand why people get so worked up about YEC. Most Christians believed this view until relatively recently in history, and some large denominations are YEC. Evolutionists really need to explain the close association between their faith and racism and genocide.
As regards this church in NC, I marvel about the amount of money involved and the sheer size of the place. I compare it with the little churches I have attended and it is simply amazing to me. Is it entertainment? Being a part of something trendy? We try to help folks out in our community, and a fair number of people come by wanting help. Right now our fund for this purpose has about run out. We just don’t have it. I wonder if some of these huge churches would be willing to send a little our way. We are just a small church in a small town, but there a lot of people in need out there.
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“Jesus showed mercy to Mary Magdalene knowing full well she was guilty of adultery, did he not show mercy and did not allow her to be stoned? ”
You have your Mary’s mixed up. Mary of Magdela had 7 demons cast out. There is no mention of adultery. She deserves to be represented correctly–not a small thing to be accused of adultery even 2000 years later. Not only that but you are engaging in sin leveling which makes someone yelling at their kids on par with a pedophile. . Should we not expect higher standards of behavior from long time Chrsitians who make a living teaching others about Jesus? No?
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“$800,000 is a big chunk of change for this area. Not sure where Angela is referring to when she says “$800,000 in this market is nothing these days.”
There are a lot of people out there who want a pastor who is rich. Osteens church is one of the largest out there made up of very middle class folks who make make him quite rich. You cannot imagine all the defenses i have heard about mega church pastors who live far above their members. Some people want an earthly king to worship.
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I, like Mytwocents had the same exact experience. I started going to “Calvary Chapel” now the Bridge in 2003. I left in 2006. The same creepy feeling was over me for three years. On and off because I was thinking at the time that it was the Enemy not wanting me to attend. Well, as I prayed and prayed about this church things got stranger and stranger. I was in a volunteering position at the church and one Saturday morning, D McGee and his entourage were walking around the church and saw me putting bags together to give to the children. He sent one guy over to where I was working at a table, and he picked up the papers trying not to be obvious. He then walked back over to D McGee and gave it to him….like I was being spied upon. There were so many strange and creepy things going on, but I couldn’t put my finger on it…
So, for three years I endured the pain. One Thursday night service, something was not right, that underlying gut feeling that this was not the Holy Spirit. This was an evil spirit, and those of us that discern spirits will know it. On another night, that feeling of wanting to run out as fast as I could was so overwhelming…I finally got up, and walked out in the middle of the service as fast as I could, only to be met by Nora, his wife. She was standing in the foyer, all by herself as if waiting for me! She tried to stop me, asking me what was wrong, I let her know, ” I am getting out of here” I have to go! She tried to stop me and I was running at that point. Jumped in my truck and I was out of there as fast as I could go, never to return. Yes, I remember Jim Jones…I watched it live, horrified at the site of those hundreds of dead bodies laying there…All I have to say is The Bridge is another Cult..I pray for friends that are still there. Oh, and once you leave the church, the members are not allowed to have anything to do with you ever again…
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Julie Anne, I noticed Britta Carpenter’s tweets to you yesterday, bringing up CON’s lawsuit against you, and using it to try to paint your coverage of McGee as defamation. I wonder if she’s the true face behind “Angela” upthread… They both seem to suffer from insufferable true believer syndrome.
And I just started reading the heat you got from that one O’Neal devotee on Reddit. In a word: Yikes.
How many flavours of Kool-Ade do we need?
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Trish, I wish more folks could do like you did. If so, then these charlatans could not stay in business.
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Serving, are you stalking me? Hahaha
Edited to add: Isn’t it bizarre how “strangers” come out of nowhere and presume to know my court case 3 years later? Crazy stuff.
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Dash, my view of the current state of evolutionary biology is that if you found a notebook in one of the lower strata authored by Adam under some Stegosaurus bones, they’d still not believe it. It’s that politicized.
And that said, one of the big reasons Behe doesn’t sound that convincing to you is because his central task is to exclude the alternative hypothesis of evolution by demonstrating it is unlikely. Since you don’t “prove” the null hypothesis (creation in this case), but rather “retain” it, a certain degree of humility must be retained by anyone trying such a demonstration.
By the way, I’ve got a friend who works at the Mayo Clinic in immunology, and if you think that DNA and proteins pose a challenge to evolution, white blood cells are many orders of magnitude more complicated.
OK, back on topic or JA will need to lash me (yet again) with a wet noodle; thanks to those who are sharing personal stories about this.
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Yeah, you think ? Especially when you WON the case and they are insinuating that you defamed the hyperbolic MANLY man.
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I should have noted that our gracious hostess would justifiably lash me with a wet noodle, BTW. :^)
Agreed that it takes a certain degree of chutzpah to bring up a case the plaintiff lost as an example of why the winning defendant doesn’t know what they’re talking about, BTW.
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@Bike Bubba- While the theory of evolution may be incomplete, the problem with teaching ID is that it stifles all intellectual inquiry. How did DNA come about? “God did it.” How did the human eye form? “God did it.” Wow, how very simplistic. What about all these bacteria colonies that keep mutating to resist antibiotics? “Micro-evolution, doesn’t count.” Uh…OK. What about the fact that we can see light from stars that are tens of millions of light-years away? “God put the light there 6000 years ago. It travelled instantly when He made it.” Um…
This is the whole problem with ID: you’re required to *begin* with the assumption that God exists. A supernatural force is inherently unscientific, because it can’t be measured, weighed, or tested. Even the Catholic church supports evolutionary biology, because evolution does not preclude God’s existence. ID is far more politicized than evolution.
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@Bike Bubba- Stifling intellectual inquiry is the scientific problem with ID. Creating a political minefield in the classroom is the *political* problem with ID. Here’s how that works:
TEACHER: Children, today we are going to learn the wonders of Intelligent Design! Modern science believes that God made everything, because it’s all so complicated.
HINDU STUDENT: You mean scientists believe Vishnu made everything?
TEACHER: No.
MUSLIM STUDENT: Allah?
TEACHER: No. Scientists agree that the Christian God Jehovah made everything.
HINDU/ MUSLIM/ OTHER STUDENTS: …uh…
TEACHER: And of course, you MUST believe in Jehovah God Creation because it’s in Genesis in the Christian Bible! God created everything in six days! Hallelujah!
ATHEIST STUDENT: But I don’t believe in God.
TEACHER: Shut up.
…etc.
Ergo, Christian Creationism is FAR more of a political bombshell in the classroom, because it is religiously polarized. Evolutionary biology is politically neutral because it can be challenged by anyone of any faith. If you want a Christian theocracy in the science classroom, by all means teach ID. But you’re being completely dishonest if you claim that ID isn’t politically motivated.
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There seems to be a lot of data from multiple sources on the Internet related to Pastor David McGee and this Bridge Church, how can a city the size of Kernersrville miss the mark that badly on very disturbing information?
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Erika, welcome! You raise a good question. As I’ve been watching stories like this with other churches, we often find that there are connections outside of the church that prevent the story from becoming public. A recent story regarding The Village Church and Matt Chandler was set to be published by a media outlet in Dallas and was scrapped at the last minute. Sometimes it is bloggers who do not have any political/financial ties who are able to bring attention to wayward pastors/leadership. It’s pretty sad that adults turn a blind eye to this kind of thing while claiming to be Christian.
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It is sad when the local news gives more coverage to how some woman gets her hair curly than a church that is filled to the brim with scandal. No wonder the NC Leadership Academy build their school so quickly, they didn’t want to continue paying millions of dollars a year to use the bridge as a temporary school house. The Bridge is in it for the MONEY, come on people open your eyes already. This is a place of secrets and it will all be brought into the light.
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Not sure where the 800,000 home is coming from if you zillow his address it is worth 1.1 million it’s a 7500sqft 5 bedrooms and 3.5 baths for him and his wife.
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The 800k figure is coming from the Forsyth County Tax Office for the year 2014. In regards to people not speaking out sooner about all this could be several reasons. One is most of the sins coming out were hidden from the congregation. Now when two assistant pastors from there were involved in sexual sin David McGee did have them step down. So of course who would suspect David McGee was or would be doing the same thing? The ownership of his now million dollar home was hidden and his other house (at the time worth in the 200k range) was used for the bond offering information. Who knew he had two houses? The financial info in the bond offering had salaries lumped together, though it did list outrageous housing allowance for the “pastor”. And the person attesting to these statements was another Calvary Chapel pastor. Some people, including myself, are too blindly trusting of pastors and others in leadership. And of course by a person attending Calvary Chapels you are brainwashed to just trust your pastor and obey him and you will be blessed. After all he is God’s anointed man. So baby and weak believers are preyed upon and cohearsed into giving (the tithe of course) and serving out of fear of being cursed. And they don’t teach doctrine because they say they don’t want to divide the body of Christ. Very corrupt authoritarian system,
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The value of DMs 800k plus house is from the 2014 Forsyth County Tax office valuation. The congregation was not told he owned two houses. The bond info only listed his home that had a value in the 200k range.
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Sorry I duplicated some info on two posts, I didn’t think the first one went thru. But I will add you are taught from the pulpit not to question the pastor and if you disagree to just quietly go away.
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As many of you are aware, Idolatry Exposed is also covering the Pastor David McGee, Bridge Church issue from a slightly different angle than this initial article although there are still some similarities. Does anyone have and questions for us?
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@Idolatry Exposed- You’ve made it clear that you purportedly have evidence that David McGee has been allegedly engaging in one or more extramarital affairs. When can we see this evidence, if it exists? What legal action are you currently involved in?
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lydia00 – I know, but when you get so sucked in by the Pastor, you want to believe in your heart that this is truly a Godly man…when you start feeling the “pull” to get out of there, you do question as to “why”. You don’t want to believe or even think that this could be a “Cult”. I heard so many jokes about “where’s the kool-aid.” Years ago during some kind of out door activity, there was food, games for the kids, etc…this was when it was still Calvary Chapel…so my husband, which refused to go to this church with my son and myself always said there was something weird about it, but I didn’t listen, (wish I did!) So, he decided to come with us and when Nora finally convinced David to come and “meet my husband” the only thing that David McGee said was “Hey man, I like your hair.” REALLY? IS THAT ALL THIS SO CALLED PREACHER COULD SAY TO MY HUSBAND? That is the God’s honest truth…I think my jaw dropped to the ground….My husband laughed and said, “LET’S GO.” My husband immediately said to me, “David McGee is a kook, and he knows that I know he is a fake.” Just by making this idiotic comment to him, that said it all….David McGee is a phony, with a depraved sick mind…I pray more people have the discernment to get out of there. It’s not the Holy Spirit, it’s an evil spirit running that place…
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@Idolatry Exposed I have a few questions– how long did you attend The Bridge and were you on staff? Do you have any news station that is working on this? I know MS posted she can’t reveal info until Dec 10th, is this info anyway related to hers? I can only continue to pray that all this is exposed soon and bring an end to the lies, deception, manipulation, abuse and financially ripping Christians off.
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Dash, if that logic is correct, then I stifle inquiry all the time by retaining the null hypothesis. Ugly reality, though, is that any decent researcher does that all the time–the biggest trouble we have (all those unreplicable medical studies, all those studies on coffee, etc..) is actually that nobody ever gets promoted for retaining the null hypothesis. Guess where the finger is placed on the scale?
Reality is that ID does no such thing as you allege; it merely says that if the alternative hypothesis works in method A, then it must be abandoned because the likelihood is wrong. It does not prevent a review of method A, let alone a review of methods b, c, d,….etc..
Really, it seems that all too often that evolutionary biologists are working from that Far Side “and then a miracle occurs” cartoon in terms of their logic, and this case is no exception. It’s not a surprise, though, as “Origin of Species” has anything but tight logic in coming to conclusions.
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@Idolatry Exposed- You’ve made it clear that you purportedly have evidence that David McGee has been allegedly engaging in one or more extramarital affairs. When can we see this evidence, if it exists? What legal action are you currently involved in?
Dash, the information about the affair came from a former Leadership female who got married to a man and left the Church and told him that she had one with the Pastor, and they had ongoing conversations about it via text messaging until she divorced him 6 months later and our sources within the Church are now telling us she will say that she lied to her then husband about everything. And, there are pics of this same female in various poses around the Church while naked. And, we are now getting internal reports that the female is back to working at some level with the Church. We have no legal issues with the Church or anyone.
As for seeing the data, you can understand that nobody is going to put those pictures online or allow for them to be online, but our party with the data who we are working with is fine putting the text messages online but is involved in a divorce that is final I think sometime in Dec.
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“lydia00 – I know, but when you get so sucked in by the Pastor, you want to believe in your heart that this is truly a Godly man…when you start feeling the “pull” to get out of there, you do question as to “why”. You don’t want to believe or even think that this could be a “Cult”. ”
Trish, you don’t have to explain how it works to me. Been there, done that and have the t-shirt. And yes, these guys are very leery of folks like your husband. They can sense who sees through them like that and who they don’t have a proper “hold” over. If they can somehow convince us not to question, they win. Some will try and win others over if they have enough gravtias to matter but other charlatans try to avoid them because they can sense the danger. It is all about people buying into the perception/image. So maintaining the image is all that matters.
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@Idolatry Exposed I have a few questions– how long did you attend The Bridge and were you on staff? Do you have any news station that is working on this? I know MS posted she can’t reveal info until Dec 10th, is this info anyway related to hers? I can only continue to pray that all this is exposed soon and bring an end to the lies, deception, manipulation, abuse and financially ripping Christians off.
Kitkat, we have never attended the Bridge, only working with people inside who are still working but want change who are upset after the Yarbrough/Gates issue and also told us about the guy on the Coast that was married to Leadership for 6 months who had information.
Yes to date we are working with 3 News organizations.
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@Bike Bubba- Assuming the existence of God as your null hypothesis is inherently unscientific; supernatural forces cannot be weighed, measured, or tested. You cannot prove the existence of a supernatural force by definition. You may as well use the null hypothesis “Magic fairies created everything.”
Also, you haven’t addressed the politics of teaching Intelligent Design- which is a Christian belief- in a public school classroom full of students who have differing beliefs. Teaching Intelligent Design violates the First Amendment in a public school. The courts have been very clear on this, and I agree with them.
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So, I am the Matt Gates from this article. What a shame that this man calls himself a pastor. He is an egomaniac, and a fraud. His lies, deception, control, ego, pride, and lifestyle is catching up at an alarming rate. I am watching all of this unfold and can’t help but think, “is he going down with the ship?” Or will he actually admit his wrong doing and be somewhat redeemed? Something tells me the former. Pray for all those who are fooled by the “image” Christ is all that needs to focused on, but at the Bridge the focus is on Davis McGee and his trademark. Too bad, if he had been living for Christ instead of self, this would never have happened. I know firsthand of the ways of this place.
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@Idolatry Exposed- Does your source have any direct communications from Mr. McGee implicating him in an extramarital affair? Do you have evidence of him communicating directly with your source? Do any of the photos place your source and Mr. McGee together?
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Matt, welcome to the blog. I’m sorry you have had to experience this mess. I know the emotional and spiritual toll it can take. I think your story going public has helped others to come forward and that is a good thing when truth is exposed. Your story may help a lot of people to get out of a very destructive environment. Thank you for speaking out!
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Dash; and in the same way the evolutionists cannot use “no God” as their alternate hypothesis….but it doesn’t seem to have stopped Steven Jay Gould, Richard Dawkins, and others from attempting just that.
Reality is that the “no supernatural hypotheses” rule is a twisting of something Newton noted in his Principia, where he disdained the medieval habit of attributing everything to a miracle. Newton would not have recognized your formulation, however.
So if we are going to speak to the science of origins, we must admit the possibility of an Originator. It is a logical imperative.
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Idolatry Exposed, if indeed you are aware of, or if indeed you are in possession of, such evidence as you suggest, I’m going to suggest that you owe it to Mr. McGee to bring that evidence before his church board. Might even want to talk with a lawyer, as I’m guessing the accused will not take the accusations lightly–remember your first consultation is free with many lawyers, and some will work pro bono.
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Thanks JA! Hey I’m on with all this. My wife however has been severely hurt, lost many “friends” and has been having a hard time dealing with it. Fortunately for her, we both have a strong faith in the One True God and even through all of this ****storm we hold our heads high. All the folks who stand in line to bow down to David McGee are lost. But we pray for them everyday. I’ve asked to meet with David, would love to publically interview him or just have a q&a session. He is so far gone it isn’t even funny. But he could make it somewhat better by repenting, publically admitting his sins, and asking his flock, God and the public for forgiveness. Funny how the bible says “pride goeth before destruction” looks like his is coming quick. Will he own up? Nah, better to hide behind lies and deception. But, as we all know, we will stand before Him and give an account. Until then, I’m keeping the popcorn at hand!! 🙂
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OK, it’s time for me to have my say. Matt, unfortunately David McGee and The Bridge will weather this storm, but it’s clear that storms keep coming quicker and quicker as we have all seen since the Church moved in to the new building and everyone got starry eyed. Eventually, it is going to fall. Mike Crump left, but didn’t have the guts to say why. Jim Graham has no spine and has known for years but for whatever reason has a thing for David. DA Brown needs a place to live and car to drive, Kevin has no spine and everyone else for whatever reason feels like The Bridge is something big when in reality outside of Kernersville nobody knows his name except in the weird tele-evangelical circles. David’s time is short, and without his charisma The Bridge falls and all the little idolatry princesses that follow him like groupies go back to be nothing. It’s going to fail, the addiction will get worse, he ego will get bigger after this and he will push harder feeling infallible, and it will eventually end without anyone there every becoming what they all apparently want to be is some Christian super star that everyone on the planet despises instead of just being a Church for God.
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There is no board at The Bridge, it is a single Pastor lead Church. There is a “Yes Sir” man who has a designation as the board but this is a sole owned business, David McGee can do what he wants, his days are numbered medically and he has no fears. I agree with the comments above, this place is destined to fail. They are as big as it’s ever going to get and those with superstar needs are going to get their feelings hurt. Stand firm Matt, you know the truth, your wife knows the truth, many others know the truth, and let the idolatry seekers have their day. Half the staff can’t manage their own marriages, Bob is 60 and trying to run some video business in small town USA, Jim can’t even get a furniture company off the ground, DA can’t provide for his wife and needs PD’s car and home to live, Nora’s head is in the sand protecting her investment, Mike is gone. Our stuff, nor the Yarbrough/Gates thing will be what ends this, but it’s been chaos since the new building and things are getting worse. Just a matter of time before the internal structure implodes.
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We are expecting an outing of all of this at 5 pm today. Where will we see that at? My family and I attended there for about 8.5 years and we left when more and more things were coming to the light. I confronted David last week about an alluded to affair and I was accused of lying by him and her and I was told I ought to be ashamed of myself. Well this vindicates me. I was truthful all along and God knew it. I only hope the world will know who David McGee really is before this day is out.
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Ok, it is 6 pm and we have not seen any thing yet. Is this evidence going to be on here, the news, the church, what????
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I’ve had people ask me here (and privately) about info released at 5 pm. I read the same thing from a tweet from Idolatry Exposed. I do not know what that is about or where it will be posted. I’ll let you know if I hear anything.
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vindicated, I did not release 2 of your comments because they repeated the same as the 3rd 🙂 Sorry, I was on the phone and couldn’t moderate quickly enough.
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@Bike Bubba- “[I]f we are going to speak to the science of origins, we must admit the possibility of an Originator. It is a logical imperative.”
While I don’t disagree with this statement, I will again make the point that the primary reasons for excluding any mention of an Originator in public school science classrooms are indeed political in nature, and they are strongly in keeping with the First Amendment. If we introduce the discussion of an Originator into a school classroom, then whose Originator do we discuss? Hindu? Muslim? Buddhist? It’s a political minefield. The Kitzmiller v. Dover ruling was spot on, even if you disagree with the reasoning behind the verdict.
I honestly think we agree on this subject more than we disagree. The purpose of evolutionary biology is simply to gather evidence. How that evidence is interpreted is open to debate. I agree with the part where the evidence is gathered and studied; what I disagree with, in keeping with the First Amendment, is the teaching of specific interpretations in public schools. ID is repackaged Creationism, which is evangelical Christianity in origin, and is therefore at conflict with the First Amendment.
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JA, apologies for hijacking the comments section but the ID debate is fascinating to me. That’s what I get for listening to one of David McGee’s sermons.
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vindicatedatlast: There is going to be no outing, we have simply asked questions based on information given to us. We can’t out anyone the congregants of The Bridge aren’t willing to oust. If his staff is OK with the allegations and a majority of the congregants, nothing is going to happen. In reality, everything we have asked has been brought up for years, it’s really nothing new. He has a staff who wants to be super star Christians and on TV and the radio and they don’t care. The congregants (or at least a majority) seemingly don’t care and like being a part of a “mega church” so it’s not like we are going to out or oust him. The Bridge is a business owned by David McGee, if he wants to claim he is a fish and ppl give him money nobody can do anything about him until rational people simply tune him out and he has surrounded himself with people that wanted the Joel Olsteen life and he has only delivered small town NC weird tele evangelical nobody’ness as the sun sets on his health. In reality, now that we have thought about it, the fix to all this is just sitting back and waiting a few more years and either the ego get’s the best of him or illness and then staff can point to the one of two pictures that make it out of Kernersville and pretend they were something big. I guess in retrospect if people want to pay for his Lexus and homes and hear some good guitar picking let em for a few more years until the bank takes everything when there isn’t another charismatic person to take the place of the show.
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No prob, Dash 👍
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at idolatry Exposed…. I would at least like to see the proof. I don’t care to see pictures but at least the text messages b/w the two or more parties. If you have this evidence I think you need to come forward with it especially since you made it so well known on your twitter account that you would. I am not saying I don’t think there is proof but I do find it funny that all this has played out up til this point and now nothing.
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I agree. I would love to see some proof as well. Show some texts if nothing else. Or at least an update on when and where the blog will be.
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I think those who were members there for so long and have left deserve to see this evidence. We need that closure. I know for me personally the hurt after leaving this place after saying over and over I never would, the times where I stood by the pastor and defended him to those who bashed him, dropped friends who left because of the negative comments made towards David McGee… I need to know that I did the right thing by getting out of there. For me it is closure. I need peace about this. You don’t know how many times I woke up crying from horrible dreams about this place. For our sake please share what you have.
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I feel lied to. You hyped all of this up on Twitter & then nothing, nada. It makes me wonder if you faked this all along.
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@idolsexp Let me clarify. What I meant is you said that at 5 pm today there would be a long blog that would reveal everything and we have not seen that. Has that blog not been released? Did plans change?
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I’m doing mom taxi right now. When I get home, I’ll type a response to share what I’ve seen from my side.
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Unfortunately in this matter, the ONLY proof there is are pictures and by law that can not be released. The text messages between our source and Bridge staff will be dismissed by that person saying she was simply angry and lying. We never promised PROOF, we have said all along we have text from the highest levels but the Bridge will just say she was lying. Until there is a reason for someone to subpoena my records, we can’t give closure. We aren’t releasing the pictures, and the texts mean nothing if there are only 5 or 6 people disgruntled and the rest of the flock OK with the allegations. In retrospect, in looking over the 29K text messages, everything in them are allegations that have been around for long before we even knew about the Bridge, so it’s a case where there are 2,000 seemingly fine with the allegations and OK with paying for their Pastor’s lavish lifestyle.
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It could really be hype and a grand hoax. I agree with what some others are saying. This needs closure.
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Thank you Julie Anne. Any update would be nice.
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In reality, the high level person to my understanding is back with the flock and will just say she lied in the text messages. Until there is a board demanding to see the data, or a lawsuit, or a crime, what we have will have no bearing on anything. There is no board, there are no crimes, and nobody is going to file a lawsuit because staff is fine and think they are some big renowned super stars.
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All I can offer anyone is that the entire staff at The Bridge is aware of the pictures and text messages, they involve affairs, drugs, lying to congregants, publicity stunts to draw money in to the bridge, and one man with a super high ego who loves his tithing money and finer things in life and a staff who does not care and a majority of congregants that do not care. The Bridge is a NC corporation that calls itself a Church. Now if someone wants to find legal precedence that says any congregant can sue if the tithed to have the records released my heavens we would LOVE to. And there may very well be that precedence. If they have tax exempt status then I’m sure it can happen.
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I can’t believe I’m saying this, I actually HOPED I would draw a lawsuit from The Bridge so the records could be released. But in reality if 2,000 people in small town NC want to tithe to a frog representing to be from Pluto our laws allow for it.
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So basically, what you are saying is that you went from this: Have questions? Concerns? Tomorrow at 5pm we will have a several thousand word blog written that explains EVERYTHING.
To this: I really don’t have anything of significance. All I can offer is the entire staff knows about it. The person will just say she lied.
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I can offer this, the MEDIA in the triad is ALL ABOUT THIS, outside that Church everyone knows it’s a weird group of people. But there is no law in being naked in a Pastor’s office, having affairs, and alleged drug use and publicity stunts and immorality. All they can do is ask David McGee to comment and if he refuses, they can’t do anything. Even if they plastered the pictures all over the news, the weirdos that stay at the Church don’t care nor do the staff. Someone find a way to force a subpoena of Church records including this person’s Church phone and I will deliver it with cake.
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I offered a 2,000 word blog of allegations yes, never said PROOF. I mean there is proof, I just can’t release it.
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