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Questions for dads to ask young men who are interested in their daughter
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This was posted on Todd Friel’s Wretched Facebook page and is entitled:
Not Rude Questions for a Young Man by Robert Bowen and Todd Friel
We are not barbarians. Dads should not threaten a potential suitor with a fire-arm. At least not a loaded fire-arm. But that doesn’t mean a Dad shouldn’t put the young man on the hot seat.
Below are some questions that may help you determine if a young man will have access to your daughter. Your mileage may vary. Start with #30.
- Share your salvation testimony.
- What is the Gospel.
- Share the most recent Bible verse you have memorized.
- Can you recite all 66 books of the Bible in order? Try.
- How often do you read your Bible?
- When was the last time you read your Bible?
- Tell me about your participation in your local church.
- Can you recite the Nicene Creed for me?
- If you are a virgin, why? If you are not a virgin, tell me what you have learned.
- Tell me everything you know about the Protestant Reformation.
- What is your approach to protect your sexual purity as well as my child’s?
- What Scripture verses guide your interactions with the opposite sex?
Please see the rest of the questions here.
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What do you think? Are these the most important questions to ask? Do you think these questions are appropriate? Are there any questions they left out?
Spiritual Sounding Board 
Hate to admit it, but his questions are generally better, less invasive, and less condescending in tone than those of Doug Wilson or James MacDonald.
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Julie Anne, I’ll BET you can predict my response. These questions make me feel like barfing. That phrase – “Have access to my daughter” – I mean, really? As if she was a truck???
We have three daughters and about the only question either of us – as parents – that has ever been in our minds is, “How much do you love her?” However, it has never been uttered, as the men who are in relationships with our daughters are fine, honourable, decent people. As are our daughters.
I should also add that we’ve never thought anything any different about our daughter-in-law. It’s so very obvious that they love each other that we’d never think to ask any of those questions. They’re adults, all of them. That’s what adults do – make decisions on their own.
What baloney. Sorry, I know you’re thinking – “Tell us how you REALLY feel!”
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I didn’t ask any of these. My daughter was 34. She was perfectly capable of making up her own mind. When she wants my advice she asks for it.
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So pharisaical. Like knowing details about the protestant reformation or reciting the nicene creed makes a person’s heart right. And what’s with all the references to “my child?” I’m assuming we’re talking about adults here. This is just a sick power trip.
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… help you determine if a young man will have access to your daughter.
Boy, this really….
The implications….
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My daughters can make up their own minds; they were taught to use their judgment. And they both know that I’ll take care of anyone that would be stupid enough to lay a hand upon them in anger.
My experience has taught me that the guys that give the “right answers” to these questions are the last ones I want near my girls.
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If the guy gets the answers correct does he get a gold star? Except for the sex part, it sounds like the poor guy is trying to get into seminary instead trying to get into–oh well, you get the gist.
But seriously, my brother was like this when his 26 year old daughter was dating her future ex-husband. At the wedding my brother gave the groom her “purity” ring as if dad owned her virginity and was passing it to the groom. (The sight of that added two extra years to my therapy). Well Mr. Perfect was cheating within six months. He disappeared after 18 months, just leaving a note. His new GF moved with him to a new city. The GF gives up her job in her old city and buys a house in the new city so they can live together. Update— he has recently gotten another (married) woman pregnant and left his GF stuck with house payments in a strange town after giving up her career. Now he is shacked up with the married woman.
My poor niece had never been allowed to develop any interpersonal skills, but just trusted her dad. She never saw the red flags, because she was “under her father” and his word was golden. Thank God, she has moved out of the house and is dating a guy who is a believer and is wild about her. He is courting her and dad is being more in the background and letting her be an adult! Sorry for the rant, but this list is disgusting!
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“Have access to my daughter” as though my daughter is holed up in a vault deep in Fort Knox and you need a special pass to gain access or something. As though your daughter is property to negotiate access to her.
But I digress.
Share your salvation testimony.
If this fellow wasn’t such a jerk, he would be able to have a normal conversation during which the status of the young man could be discerned.
What is the Gospel.
See the above.
Share the most recent Bible verse you have memorized.
You go first, old man.
Can you recite all 66 books of the Bible in order? Try.
I don’t see the value in such recitation. I’m sure the devil has them memorized in order big whoop de do.
How often do you read your Bible?
Again, thump-thump, the Bible isn’t supposed to be like the Spanish Inquisition. same with the next question.
When was the last time you read your Bible?
Tell me about your participation in your local church.
If they are filled with jerks like you, Sunday is for sleeping in.
Can you recite the Nicene Creed for me?
Like the rock band, dude…
If you are a virgin, why? If you are not a virgin, tell me what you have learned.
Were you? And is the next part creepy to anyone else? Like tell me all the juicy parts in detail (lunch on its way back up, gag me.)
Tell me everything you know about the Protestant Reformation.
Naw, my area of interest is the Catholic Counter-reformation, dude, tell me everyyyythinggggg you know about that or botanical sexual reproduction for that matter.
What is your approach to protect your sexual purity as well as my child’s?
Would a young man, any young man stay around long enough for this question. The jerk is “protecting” his daughter by being a jerk and repelling any normal men.
What Scripture verses guide your interactions with the opposite sex?
This makes me wonder what this guy would do if his poor daughter was a lesbian and he was dealing with the same sex.
But honestly, the frikking devil is legalistic and can recite and regurgitate the facts to be able to answer all but the first question.
This dad needs to live his own life and back away from the traiwreck he’s making of his daughters.
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My daughters are quite capable of asking their own questions. They are both very strong, independent women with good heads on their shoulders. Since the older daughters dad hasn’t been heard from in 20 years, I will be giving her away next month when she marries. She is marrying a caring man who loves her very much. He made calls to me to get to know me better before the wedding. I thought that was pretty cool. The youngest, who’s dad is deceased, says she is never getting married, so I guess there won’t need to be any questions.
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I thought this was a parody, and kept waiting for the punch line…and there wasn’t one. For some reason this one seems more clueless than most to me.
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It appears these questions were formulated within a courtship scenario, not a dating one. My own kids will probably be dating (hopefully that, instead of “hooking up”).
If a daughter were still a teenager and living at home with us, then a few questions might be appropriate, besides general getting to know you stuff. Questions like
!. Going anywhere in particular?
2. Will you have her back by such-and-such a time?
The only question for my daughter would be, got your cellphone?
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What in the world???? This makes Miano’s *what he must be to marry my child* look tame.
I think number 9 should have been worded a bit better- the “what have you learned” part.
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I am such a rebel. My parents didn’t meet my fiance until after we were engaged and the wedding was planned. I wouldn’t even let him ask my dad for permission to marry me. I’ll be traveling back to tx in about 2.5 weeks to visit my family and still their only questions are “Do you love him? Are you showing him love daily through your actions and your words?”
For whatever its worth, I’m actually excited about a layover for the first time. I just learned that my favorite Austin restaurant has a location within the airport so I plan on pigging out the entire two hours. 😀
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Oh, wait a minute. Since this is real, and not a joke, who in their right mind could ever imagine asking your daughter’s potential (date? suitor?) if they’re still a virgin! Huge yuck.
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@Persephone-
And…if they’re not (still a virgin) what have they learned? What??????
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I think these types of questions are for daughters to ask a future husband. (not the parents)
I can only emphasize to my daughter is find someone with similar Christians values as her and avoid dating guys who hate and curse God.
question # 9 is strangely worded
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Question 9! Can you imagine if the young man thinks the girlfriend’s father is asking for tips?!
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That’s my point!! How could Friel not have seen that? UGH I guess you all know where my mind goes lol but I say what the heck was he thinking writing it that way.
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Ugh, there are 30 questions? An extra Yuck on #9.
Why do they always have to put the guy on the defense? Hot seat?
One question that was left out:
“Do you have any questions for me?”
(such as where’s the nearest exit?)
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This question was also left out….
Why you gotta be so rude
Don’t you know I’m human too
Why you gotta be so rude
I’m gonna marry her anyway
Marry that girl
Marry her anyway
Marry that girl
No matter what you say
Marry that girl
And we’ll be a family
Why you gotta be so… rude
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8 of the 30 are on sexual purity issues. I swear things guys are obsessed with sex.
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17 are related to spirituality/doctrine/spiritual relationship:
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These are the only questions I found that deal with the daughter. I wonder if the daughter might have other questions that would be of concern to her?
3 questions are related to sex.
3 questions are related to role of husband in marital relationship
1 question is on children
1 question on $$
This questionnaire is obviously male focused on what men think is important. I’ll bet most women would want to know about:
~the importance of communication, spending time together, companionship
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“What is your approach to protect your sexual purity as well as my child’s?”
“Have you crossed those boundaries in your relationship with my child?”
“Is your conscience clean before the Lord in your dealing with my child?”
What’s with the “child” references? This is totally grossing me out to no end. It could not be more poorly worded.
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“When was the last time you looked at pornography?”
Wow…presume much there, dad?
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It’s like there are no boundaries with this extreme courtship/patriarchy/date your daddy/purity ring/daughter is a perpetual child crowd.
JA wrote~ “I swear things guys are obsessed with sex.”
OT, but equally disturbing, I found this the other day when JA did the Kirkland post:
http://vassaloftheking.blogspot.com/2014/07/pray-for-sexual-purity-of-your-elders.html
Hmmm, I can think of a lot of other things to pray about for elders before I would ever think to pray for that…like covering up child abuse, nepotism, spiritual abuse, financial transparency, forbidding divorce for spousal abuse and the list goes on.
Besides, I just do not want to think about purity in regards to my pastor. UGH. Please– just keep this prayer request to yourself pastor/elder (or with another person should you choose) and pray about it youself…no need to broadcast it on the internet, imo.
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Did anyone check out the comments on the original link? I could have sworn there were challenging/negative comments there, too. Now I don’t find them. hmm.
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In context, Todd Friel is a former stand up comedian, and while the general gist is illustrating what kind of guy he would want his daughter to marry, having followed him for years, I believe much of this is in half-hearted jest. If you ever watch Wretched TV, I think your take might be a bit different.
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I see lots of negative comments on his FB post.
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Larry,
I have never seen Wretched TV. It sounds like reason to throw the set out the window.
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I found this tidbit at the Christian Post:
According to porn watchdog organization Covenant Eyes, 91 percent of self-identified fundamentalists are more likely to watch porn than regular church attendees.
Maybe the kid should ask to see Pop’s computer history before he dates his daughter.
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Julie Anne nods her head at ^^^^ comment. Yup!
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First, Congratulations Brenda! That is just awesome that you will be giving your daughter away at her wedding, what a wonderful act of love! Your day will be incredibly blessed!
When I read the list from these men, a sudden wave of oppression washed through me. And yes, I too was concerned with all of the sexual questions. I have a question or two that may add some depth to the list, since marriage is relational every day living involving two people, not one:
1) In every day problems of living, are you prone to taking responsibility for your own sins and own mistakes and making amends through repentance when necessary, or do you have a tendency to blame other people, in this case, your future spouse for all of the wrong that happens?
2) How do you handle your anger; do you believe in shoving, yelling at, or hitting your spouse under during stressful situations?
3) How is the jealousy/envy factor in your life; would you allow her to have healthy relationships with her family and friends outside of the marriage, or would you choose to isolate her as your very own pet?
4) You say you are a Christian, what is your definition of following LORD Jesus Christ?
5) What is your definition of Chrisitan leadership in the home?
I guess this is more than a few questions, however, to me these are important to anyone who is seeking to have a healthy marital relationship. And let us be honest here, can the majority of the churched in the western culture, actually tell you what the Gospel of Jesus Christ really entails? There may be a drought in the land.
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Jkpvarin, you hit the nail on the head!! If I was a young man o’ God, I would like to interrogate dad before I “bought the cow”. Questions like. “Can you guarantee your daughter has not been blemished by sexual activity?” “Did you use the Pearl’s method of discipline on her?” “Did it work?” “Can you guarantee she is fertile and can bare me 8, 10, even 15 children?” “Will she submit to my authority without question?” “Will she give me morning BJs to keep me from straying (cite Mark Driscoll)” Can I dump her on your doorstep if she gains 20 pounds after she delivers all my children?” (Her mom looks a little hefty now). The list is endless!!!!
JA, Obviously your husband didn’t ask your dad these questions or you wouldn’t have this blog and your old pastor would be his best friend! 🙂
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Katy2,
I like your questions and believe they are far more pertinent to a long healthy marriage.
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I like Ann’s suggestions, mostly because she so well illustrates the absurdity of it. If I had a son, and some girl’s father interrogated him like that, I would go nuts. This is cultic, tribal behavior. While Christians in the middle east are suffering for their faith, American Christians are creating these kinds of doctrinal prisons for people. May God deliver us from these kinds of leaders. Maranatha!
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I have coined a phrase….it’s called the ‘Eddie Haskell Syndrome’. That is what I call someone, usually a child or young person, who is too polite, too everything! Anyone who answers these questions would probably fit into that ‘syndrome’.
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Ok, this date interview idea has been around since the 80’s. I don’t know if the questions have changed somewhat. I did not have a Dad, so my MOM did this date interview when I was invited to go on a double date with my best friend.
Best friend’s boyfriend was from out of town and was coming to see her–and bringing his friend along with him. So, I was invited to go to the movies with them. It was so humiliating. I had never met this guy before–and probably would not have seen him again after this date. But, Mom covered many of these purity questions. And she laid down very clear “rules” that there would be no parking allowed. It could not have been more awkward had she just come along and sat between us the whole night. I still feel sorry for that poor fella for having to endure that scrutiny for a blind date. I didn’t date again till I moved out of my mother’s house.
I cannot see how it would be much better scenario with a dad doing the interview. So heavy handed controlling is really not necessary.
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This is a great list to give to young men looking to avoid having controlling inlaws. “If her father asks these questions… Run away.”
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[At the risk of repeating what I put in my FB comment on your post of this list, JA]
Do you know who I think should decide who has access to my daughter? My daughter.
P.S. Almost completely apropos nothing in this most – tomorrow is my 27th wedding anniversary, woo hoo!
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Amen Randy…..Alleluia and another resounding amen!
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Congratulations, Tim and to your bride, too.
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Congratulations, Tim!
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Well, I am with Carmen on this one!! Barf. As someone already noted, these questions are not for dating, they are for courting. I Don’t believe in the latter. Having said that, I would only say, “If you are going to go to the drive-In, you’d better be WATCHING the movie!”
Just kidding. My goodness, stay away from religious questions. Get to know the guy first, outside of religion.
If not an adult:
Most of all…stay out of it. Learn to trust your daughter, based on values taught throughout her life. If the trust is violated, make readjustments accordingly. Let the daughter ask him the questions when she wants to, not when you want her to, or not when you want to. It’s not appropriate at that moment in time.
If she is an adult, void all questions. It’s none of the dad’s business.
Ed
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“Questions for Dads to Ask Young Men Who are Interested in Their Daughter”
Just from the title alone, this is going to end up with the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.
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@JulieAnne:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_images_in_the_Soviet_Union
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Experience while growing up taught me that Politeness is the mark of a sociopath. Psychological abuser sub-type.
“But he’s so POLITE!”
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This is rich. The pastor who sued me bought Tony Miano a body cam for legal protection.
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Ann, the next time I meet a lady’s parents I’m hiring you to go along with me. I’m just going to introduce you as my mom or ” concerned sibling” and set back and listen to you question her pops, LOL
You do need to expand the list and ask him if he ever hits his wife ( including RC Sproul style wife spankings) and if he has ever been sexually inappropriate in a Doug Phillips short of way with a nanny or his own daughter. “Since these sorts of things impact marriages you have a right to know”. Maybe you should ask him if he has a normal, successful sex life , or just fantasizes about everyone else’s in some weird patriarchal way. Oh and don’t forget to ask him if he has ever had sex with a man, transgendered person or department store mannequins (including but NOT limited to cardboard movie house cutouts retrieved from the dumpsters at the local multiplex).
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Too many questions. And if he can answer them “correctly”, the daughter has to comply. Setup for abuse.
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I think Ann and Scott have it exactly right: It’s time for a list of questions FROM the prospective suitor. If this is essentially a business transaction, well then, caveat emptor, right? The “buyer” has a right to ask questions, too. In the legal system, the discovery process is a two-way street (I know Judge Fall will back me here); why shouldn’t this be?
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@ Katy2:
Totally agree about “how do you handle anger” and “are you a jealous controlling weirdo” (or its near substitute, “can women have male friends”) being left off the list! (Though at least he included “do you actually have a job.”) And the Reformation question made me laugh – I’m a total nerd and I love history, but I would never make that some kind of dealbreaker. Somehow I suspect Friel didn’t put it there for historical interest reasons, though.
Also agree with others upthread that these are much closer to courtship questions, because the “access” thing is assuming that the dad gives them permission to enter into a relationship. It disturbs me that all these seemingly “mainstream” conservative evangelicals are drifting closer and closer to patriocentricity.
Personally, my dad doesn’t need to give me permission to date / marry anybody. That doesn’t mean he never gets to meet them until the wedding or something, but come on. And if I really wanted the answer to anything on this list, I’d be asking the question myself.
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I’d also point out that ‘Wretched TV’ is well-named.
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drive-In,
Ed, You must be living in the Twilight Zone. I haven’t seen or heard of a drive-in in over 20 years or more. lol
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Ed, don’t tell me YOU actually watched the movie at the Drive-in. .. 🙂
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Lol, Carmen.
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“Ithink Ann and Scott have it exactly right: It’s time for a list of questions FROM the prospective suitor”
What is her dowry?
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Brenda, Carmen and J.A. We actually still have a drive-in in our community in central Florida. There are two screen and they usually run movies as soon as they are out. Most of the time family movies play on one screen and more mature movies on the other side. When the Hobbit came out we saw it at the drive-in. So maybe Ed lives some place like I do.
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Brenda,
Hey, we have a drive-in about 10 miles from here, 6 screens. And, south of Seattle there is a drive-in there, too. I can’t remember if they still play movies at that one, but it is a popular place for a flea market on the weekends.
Carmen,
No, I wasn’t much of the drive-ins. But it’s not unusual for dates to find a “make-out” place. And that…I’ve done.
Ed
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There are still a few drive-in movie places scattered about. Several of them are within driving distance of where I live .
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Ed, that’s not a proposition, is it?? (wink!)
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Wisdomchaser,
I’m impressed. I really thought drive-ins were just a faded memory. I’ll have to start looking into these things in areas that I’m visiting. Thank you for the heads up!!
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Ed,
That is cool. I can’t imagine I will be in the Seattle area anytime soon. One of the vacations I dream of is doing a West coast tour of the baseball parks on that side of the country. If I ever get to make that a reality, I will have to remember that Seattle has more than the Mariners to look forward to.
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Dowry…I love it!
Reminds me of Rodney Dangerfield. He’d start out talking about something, then he’d expound, “Take my wife…”, but then he’d add, “No, really, take my wife, please!”
How much money is pops gonna fork out to the suitor for him to take his “old maid” daughter off his hands!!??
Brenda,
I’ve been to Mariner games when the Kingdome was still up. Haven’t been to the new stadium yet. Back then, you could practically count how many people were there. Not that many people. Seahawks was a different story, even when they were a loser team, the fans went wild.
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Julie Anne wrote: (SEPTEMBER 5, 2014 @ 1:54 PM)
8 of the 30 are on sexual purity issues. I swear things guys are obsessed with sex.
I’ve been noticing this in my online research. It’s incredible how many pastors blog and deal with sex, lust, gay issues. I haven’t been to Challies site in a long time, but he was on a roll for months it seemed. You would think our churches are filled with sex addicts.
I’ve come to the conclusion, and sadly it’s been proven true in a couple situations up close and personal, when a pastor becomes preoccupied with the topic and is passionate to an extreme, he might be preaching to himself.
From experience, I believe it’s a good thing to do your own “background check” on a pastor (so much available online) and I would suggest hiring a PI as well. Don’t forget his wife – she is part of the equation in some cases. We did our investigation after the fact in our last church and though too late to prevent the guy from being the pastor, it did answer a lot of questions and solved some mysteries as well.
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Ed,
For the past several years, vacations have been built around a baseball park that I haven’t seen yet. I do appreciate the parks that have a dome. My way of thinking is a west coast tour could get 4 on one trip starting in Seattle and ending in LA. I went to LA a few years ago. I won the trip, but it was the wrong time of year for baseball. : ( The Seahawks are football?? I would go to a game but would have no idea what was going on other than grown men slamming each other on the ground.
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There’s a drive-in about an hour away from me and I think there is one in a suburb of Portland. I’ve been meaning to take my kids some day just for the nostalgia of it.
When I think of drive-ins, I remember when my parents took me to a movie in a station wagon. I was probably 3 years old and their intention was for me to be asleep in my sleeping back in the back (save $$ on babysitting) because it was a late-night movie.
Well, I was a nosy kid and obviously something was of questionable material for a 3-yr old because I still remember my mom turning around and telling me to put my head down to go to sleep because I was peeking. lol
Ok, I remembered the song, Mrs. Robinson, from that movie. It was The Graduate and sure enough, it came out when I was 3.
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I’m guessing the only reason the dowry idea never took off in the patriarchal homeschooling world is because of the size of a lot or these families. Can you imagine even the Duggars forking over a few grand for each daughter they marry off?
As for playing 20 questions (or 30, 50, 100…), that’s just an effort to ensure the daughter marries an ideological clone of her dad/patriarch. I’ve known at least one father like this in our old church. He once caused a minor ruckus at an after-church gathering at somebody’s house, when he mentioned how he would advise his oldest daughter to only marry a Reformed man—not even a Lutheran, under the principle of not being unequally yoked. He was immediately challenged for implying that all non-reformed were the equivalent of non-Christians. He stood his ground though, arguing that the theological differences were significant enough to be problematic, especially if children came into the picture. In the case of this young lady, knowing her father, I think she would have to really LEAVE in order to cleave to her new husband, whatever his biblical views.
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I remember those days, too, Julie Anne! My mother would dress me in my pajamas. I’d eat my popcorn or snack and watch the first movie (usually Disney) and then sleep in the back of the station wagon while they watched a second movie (often something with Jack Lemmon). So much fun and no babysitter was needed.
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Brenda R –
4 teams on the west coast? Who doesn’t count?
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Just a wee bit of info… the book, What He Must Be if He Wants to Marry my Daughter is by Voddie Baucham, Jr., not Miano.
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Bridget,
There’s 5!! LA Dodgers, LA Angels, Seattle Mariners, SF Giants, Oakland A’s. I was leaving out San Fransisco. Wow!! what a great trip that would be as long as I could plan home games for them all in one trip. I didn’t leave out anyone else did I? I know more about the American League and don’t pay attention to the NL unless Detroit is playing them.
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Yes. There are six. One in the most beautiful city . . .
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Scott, like minds! 🙂 I have four younger brothers and a son so I do empathize with some of the hoops men have to jump through!!!
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@Kay:
Maybe they are. In high places. I long ago came to the conclusion that Christians are just as sexually messed-up as everyone else, just in a different (and usually opposite) direction.
They say you can tell when a preacher has a problem when he stops preaching about what he’s for and starts preaching only WHAT HE’S AGAINST. Like recovering alcoholic Billy Sunday’s Christless sermons against Demon Rum and for Prohibition around a century ago.
This is probably an attempt to self-medicate and self-treat a problem so taboo they don’t dare go public with it. Like Rush Limbaugh becoming Number One Fan of the War on Drugs while fighting a secret Oxycontin addiction. And preachers (especially CELEBRITY preachers) have to put up this public front of the Spiritual Superhuman.
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@Forrest:
Purity of Ideology justifies tolerance of any abuse.
Just like the Calvinistas and the Communists.
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@ NJ:
I’ve never heard them talk about dowries but some of them are into bride prices.
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“Just a wee bit of info… the book, What He Must Be if He Wants to Marry my Daughter is by Voddie Baucham, Jr., not Miano.”
Yes, but I was thinking of an ariticle Miano wrote – similar wording.
“The man who will marry my daughter must…
…not be an adulterer in any form, including pornography (Matthew 5:27-28).
…open car and building doors for women whenever given the opportunity. Chivalry is not dead (1 Peter 3:7).
…understand and accept his biblical role as head of the home and his wife (Ephesians 5:25-32).
…be able to provide, financially, for his wife and family (1 Timothy 5:8)–with the understanding that a man and woman are to remain married in times of plenty and in times of want.
…be able to physically protect his wife and family (Matthew 10:26-29; 2 Corinthians 5:1-10)–with the understanding that a man and woman are to remain married in sickness and in health.”
See the rest at http://www.crossencounters.us/2013/08/the-man-who-will-marry-my-daughter.html
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@Hester:
As in drop $20,000 in the Patriarch’s hand and get his daughter cash-on-the-barrelhead? Bought and paid for like any other piece of property?
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Lists like this are unrealistic, weird, and the dad needs to let the daughter make her own choices. By making all her choices for her, he is not preparing her for adulthood and independence.
As far as the sexual purity matters on the list. I have to at least give the man props that he is preferring or expecting a male to be a virgin.
Too often in Christian culture, only women are told to be virgins, and are expected to be virgins until they marry (if they marry), while the males get the “don’t look at naughty magazine photos or sites” lectures in Sunday School, but not near as much as the “stay a virgin until marriage” spiel.
The Bible expects both genders to stay virgins until marriage, but a lot of Christians only put the emphasis on women in this area.
Or they used to, I should say. In the past several years, there has been a backlash about virginity and celibacy by conservative Christians, who expect and assume all single adults over 21 or 25 are fornicating, though there are those who are still virgins past their 30s. Churches do not support older celibates. They act as if there is no such creature as a 30, 40, or 50 year old virgin, but there is.
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@Forrest:
And remember that successful sociopaths and abusers are masters at both gaming the system and camouflaging what they are. Including grooming third parties as allies. And an utterly selfish abuser has an incentive to groom the father and game his system.
“Four-one-nine just a game;
You be the mugu,
I be the masta!”
— Nigerian pop song “I Go Chop You Dolla”, about a con man
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Diane said,
“What in the world???? This makes Miano’s *what he must be to marry my child* look tame.”
I’ve actually seen another list or two that are kind of worse than the one on this page.
One was published by a Christian Fundamentalist college. Out of the two or three I saw by a Fundy college, one was not even for marriage or dating but for friendship, or just to spend time with an opposite gender person on a project or task (ie, school work).
That’s even more absurd, IMO, that some Christian groups over analyze male-female platonic relationships.
I may be mixing up my weird lists here, but I think it was the friendship list that had 100 or more items on it, and it was super nit picky, even worse than the one on this blog post at the top. I can’t remember if the 100+ long one had sex related stuff on it as this one does, but I just remember it was over- the- top and nit picky and so, so, soooo very long.
If I were a guy interested in a girl, and the father made me fill out a 30 or 100 question long quiz (or sit through a verbal inquisition), I think I would say “thanks but no thanks” and move on.
If I were a guy facing this, I’d rather fight a fire breathing dragon to save the girl, seems less monotonous and challenging by comparison to these goofy lists.
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@Daisy:
Problem is when Christianese Purity Culture bribes the boys to stay virgins until marriage with promises of barn-burning swinging-from-the-chandeliers dynamite married S*E*X 24/7 If You Only Wait. He’s going to be building up a LOT of highly-unrealistic expectations (probably fueled by porn — it’s almost impossible to avoid) and expecting his virgin bride to fulfill every one of those built-up expectations/fantasies/paraphilias IMMEDIATELY upon the wedding night. (Like Michael “plumbing supply line” Pearls’ account.) From Virgin-Unto-Death to Personal Porn Star at the flip of an “I Do” switch, WOMAN! SUBMIT!
There is no way this can end well.
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“If I were a guy interested in a girl, and the father made me fill out a 30 or 100 question long quiz (or sit through a verbal inquisition), I think I would say “thanks but no thanks” and move on.”
Yep and these controlling dads would be just fine with these guys saying no thanks and moving on (maybe even no matter how much their daughter liked the guy) because they know they would not be able to control them and who wants THAT? lol UGH.
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HUG said,
There was a study that was released about a week ago that showed that some male, evangelical virgins have problems after marriage with sex.
Like a virgin: chaste men sexually confused after marriage (page links to Fox news site)
I also agree with your assessment, that some male Christian virgins (if they’ve sat under years of a certain type of teaching about sex) will have unrealistic expectations on their wives and on sex itself, when (if) they marry.
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Brenda R wrote: ” I know more about the American League and don’t pay attention to the NL unless Detroit is playing them.”
I see you’ve become all too familiar with my Giants the last few days. 🙂
I love ballpark trips. My wildest was 8 games in 5 days in 5 different parks.
“Well, you see, sir, I plan on taking your daughter on a ballpark trip. I hear the beer is good in San Fran.” LOL
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Brenda R, you forgot the San Diego Padres. My family saw a game there a few weeks ago while on vacation. 🙂
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Steve,
Thanks Steve. I don’t want to leave anyone out. Actually, there has been a missions conference the last few days and haven’t even heard what my Tigers have been up to. I heard it hasn’t been going well, but they do make great come backs. 8 games in 5 parks–sounds good to me. I’ll skip the beer. I collect teddy bears with the team names on them.
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There is no way this can end well.
HUG,
No, it doesn’t end well. Without going into details, after 6 years then came the divorce.
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It seems to me that a father who conducts this kind of interrogation is taking certain risks. For example, the conversation could go something like this:
Q: If you are a virgin, why? If you are not a virgin, tell me what you have learned.
A: Well sir, to tell you the truth, there is a reason I thought I should marry your daughter. I can see now, though, that it wouldn’t work to marry into her family. Thanks for your time.
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Gary,
“If you are not a virgin, tell me what you have learned.”
My response: Never buy a car without checking under the hood.
________________________________
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Ha, ha, Ed. I had a minister who had a phrase for people who lived together before they got married – “On the job training”. 🙂
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Now, Ed,
Please allow me to go on record as believing fornication before marriage and adultery after marriage are sin. What God prohibits, he prohibits for our own good. I suspect, but do not know, that Ephesians 5:32 is at the heart of the matter:
““Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.” (Ephesians 5:31-32 ESV)
I do not condemn those who have failed to abstain before marriage (I have more difficulty with adultery). Our Lord forgives and is able to heal and restore. But I do think that we profit more from the living metaphor of marriage to the extent we have have succeeded, and even to the extent we begin to succeed, in joining ourselves to only one other, both physically and emotionally.
Still, the response you suggest regarding checking under the hood would be a good one, so long is it was made fictitiously, so long as something other than the truth of the assertion made was the intent.
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Gary,
While I understand that fornicating is a sin, and that I also understand that adultery is a sin, I do not believe that premarital sex before marriage is a sin, as many others do.
1 Corinthians 7:36-37
36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.
37 Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.
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Ed. Hmm. Way to wake things up around here. Lol.
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chapmaned24 said,
I can’t tell if that was an attempt at humor, or if you are being serious. (The phrase “premarital sex before marriage” is redundant.)
Premarital sex is a type of fornication, and the Bible does say God considers it a sin.
The penalty in Old Testament days for having sex before marriage was stoning, IIRC.
I’m a virgin past 40 because I was waiting until marriage to have sex, in large measure due to the biblical teaching that sex prior to marriage is sin. To say that pre-marital sex is not a sin is to make a mockery out of folks like me who have abstained this long.
In light of the fact I am
1. tired of waiting for marriage to happen and that
2. I see even a lot of conservative Christians are no longer supportive of celibacy / virginity, I am now open to the possibility of having pre-marital sex, whenever I get my next boyfriend.
Views that insist that pre marital sex is not a sin further chip away at any resolve I have for waiting longer.
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Miss Daisy –
DON’T! It’s great fun, when done responsibly. 🙂
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ooops – to be more specific, don’t WAIT! 🙂
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Misdaisyflower, don’t allow other people’s disregard for scriptural commands to take you down a path of distruction. I have seen many folks make this mistake and they regret it. God has a husband for you. He may not be exactly perfect to your long, long list but he is out there.
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Daisy,
A agree with Scott. I also have deep respect for you and your perseverance in the plan that God has for your life. Don’t allow ungodly teaching or the voices of those who have no respect for God’s word to lower your guard. I am sure there are many other things that you would refuse to do because of your righteous fear of the Lord and what you know to be right from reading His word. You’ve come to far to turn back now. God is faithful and good in all things. Everything is in His perfect timing.
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Daisy, remember – god (if you believe in s/he/it) gave you the libido, too.
Just sayin’. ..
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