John Piper, Need a Good Laugh?, Troubling Tweets

Say what? John Piper tweets about teenage couples making out down at the river?

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John Piper tweets about teenage couples making out down at the river

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Ever since retweeting this tweet, my phone has been going off like crazy with notifications. I’ve got to fill you in on this one because you just can’t make this stuff up (and because I need a mood lifter):

 

 

To see the responses on Twitter, click on the date link in the tweet.
Here is my favorite response so far:

207 thoughts on “Say what? John Piper tweets about teenage couples making out down at the river?”

  1. @Daisy:

    Also, (and ATTN Julie Anne),
    from John Piper’s blog,
    Is Oral Sex Okay

    Where have we heard that one before?
    Bee Jay Driscoll on Song of Songs, maybe?

    I read that page. He doesn’t mention if oral sex down by the river is okay or not. Someone should write and ask him if it’s okay down by the river. 😆

    Brings a whole new meaning to that hymn title “Shall We Gather at the River”…

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  2. @JulieAnne:

    It was absolutely a Calvin worship fest.

    Who needs Christ when you have CALVIN?

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  3. Daisy,
    I suppose JP was far less crass than Driscoll was about the subject of oral sex. He came right out and told women that Jesus commanded it.

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  4. @BrendaR:

    I didn’t make it past the half way point of the video. I’m not sure it he wants to be the new Calvin or the new Messiah…

    Is there a difference? (At least to him…)

    And if he’s the next Calvin (broadcasting from Geneva, no less), he can have Absolute Power over the city and its people. Building the Perfect Christian Society like ISIS building the Perfect Islamic Caliphate.

    Yertle the Turtle — GOD HATH PREDESTINED IT!

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  5. @BrendaR:

    I suppose JP was far less crass than Driscoll was about the subject of oral sex. He came right out and told women that Jesus commanded it.

    Well, now we know HIS “special preferences”…
    (And that’s all I can say that Julie Anne won’t bleep out…)

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  6. I liked reading the Song of Songs far more before I heard Driscoll “preach” on the book. He made a beautiful book into a porn novel. I felt so sorry for his wife. How embarrassing for her to have her husband announce all of that for the world. Shouldn’t that be private?

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  7. “If we made a drinking game out of every time these guys say “Gospel” we would need rehab within a week!”

    And if we made a drinking game out of every time these guys say the name of Jesus we’d all die of thirst.

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  8. And if we made a drinking game out of every time these guys say the name of Jesus we’d all die of thirst.

    Sad, but true.

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  9. Yep. Good, law, grace, gospel, justification, the written word, providence, Calvin, McArthur, Peeper, and maybe even Satan. But not so much about Jesus.

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  10. Hey, new game. Every time they say the word “Gospel” I get to eat a pretzel m&m. Feel free to play with your favorite candy.

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  11. Miss Daisy Flower, the two of us have critiqued some of Mark Twain’s works, though I’m not a big literature fan. And I consider Robert Lewis Dabney’s Systematic Theology to be a work of fiction! We crack it open for a good laugh or two. :o) I’ll also admit to my love of apple cider (as I don’t drink alcohol), but no tiddly winks so far!

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  12. Hey, new game. Every time they say the word “Gospel” I get to eat a pretzel m&m.

    The Gospel M&M game! 😀

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  13. I wish they had never made pretzel M$M’s. Sigh. I look for any excuse and a new game is perfect.

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  14. Well then, this is for Lydia (or anybody else who is playing) :

    Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel Gospel

    Just, do stop before you are I’ll.

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  15. Party ’till you puke. (Humor, folks. Humor.)

    Be like Daniel and abstain from the king’s dainties. That’s Biblical Biblical Biblical Biblical Biblical Biblical

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  16. The only time I remember looking unhappy driving back from a make out session by the river was when I was driven out there against my will and date raped. Thanks for the help while you must have watched, Piper.

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  17. Maybe this is why John Piper retired: He’s losing his grip on what’s appropriate and relevant.

    I’ve watched this in other careers. It’s a problem that a lot of retired leaders have. As they lose influence in their field, they feel they have to say something brilliant and clever. Then they look around and wonder why people are smiling and nodding condescendingly—or laughing at them.

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  18. pattij553,

    My original thought about that tweet was something similar. Piper can be profoundly absent from reality sometimes and his words cause a lot of pain. I’m sorry he (both of them) did that to you.

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  19. Gary and Cindy,

    It doesn’t count when you say it. It can only be said by a Member of the Official Gospel Gang.

    (Yes, I said “gang.”)

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  20. pattij553.
    I am so sorry this happened to you. Perhaps the “she” JP mentioned in his tweet had a similar experience and maybe he should have been paying closer attention and could have stopped this horrid thing from happening. Many men do not comprehend that no means no and don’t want to.

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  21. (Yes, I said “gang.”)

    Gang, cult, society, clan, abusers, elitists, cowards. Let me see, I think I can probably come up with more after my cup of coffee.

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  22. Barnabasintraining,

    I had wondered if that wouldn’t be a problem. I have thought of one or two solutions, but I would be required to self identify with with hurtful, harmful folly, and I prefer not to do that. I so apologize to any who may be disappointed at this collapse of my little scheme.

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  23. It’s alright, Gary. You are on the M&M side of things, which certainly has its perks. Munch away!

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  24. It’s kind of crazy how this is bothering me so. I must confess that I lied a wee bit about the river. It was actually under the Narrows Bridge so that would be the Puget Sound waters. Back in the 70s there was nothing there on the Gig Harbor side. I could tell he knew the spot well. I was 15, he was 18. I just keep having this horrible picture of Piper standing by the bridge going tsk..tsk..tsk..you should not have gotten in the car with him…you were warned about boys and their sex drives. That’s why I feel like he wouldn’t have done anything to help even if he knew what was happening.

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  25. tsk..tsk..tsk..you should not have gotten in the car with him.

    Once again the victim is responsible??? I don’t think so!! It doesn’t really matter where it happened, pattij. The fact is an adult male took advantage of you and it was a criminal assault. Peeper Piper apparently sees all and knows all, so I am sure he could have very possibly been right there watching.

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  26. — TRIGGER WARNING RE PATTI —

    pattj553, in that “horrible picture” you have, Piper the Peeper is USING your date-rape to Promote His Own Righteousness and polish his halo. THAT’s the disgusting part. All it means to him is just another opportunity to Advance HIS Agenda and Prove HIS Righteousness and how HE is so Important and Correct. (If he’s Calvinist, he’s Proving to Himself that HE is Truly Elect.) Just like when he shoots his mouth off after every natural disaster.

    “For in the Devil’s theology, the most important thing is to be Absolutely Right and to prove everyone else to be Absolutely Wrong.”
    — Thomas Merton, “Moral Theology of the Devil”

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  27. @CindyK:

    Be like Daniel and abstain from the king’s dainties. That’s Biblical Biblical Biblical Biblical Biblical Biblical

    Even if the King is King Piper I or King Driscoll I and every other word proceeding from the Royal Lips is “Biblical” or “Gospelly”.

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  28. “Acts 29 Network Removes Co-founder Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church From Membership”

    Well Hallelujah!! Progress being made.

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  29. Somebody could earn a PhD. in Psychology by studying the behaviour of men such as John Piper and Mark Driscoll.

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  30. I have mixed feelings on this Acts 29 decision. Of course I’m thankful for this move. However, nothing has changed about Mark Driscoll in the last 10 years except the public outcry. If they had integrity, this would have happened years ago. It makes me wonder if this response is solely due to the overwhelming public outcry.

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  31. JA,
    It is possible they did make the move because of the public. It could be to save face. I know very little about the organization, but any news that might take some of the wind out of MD is good news.

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  32. Don’t get me wrong, I am thankful that Acts29 finally did it,and I hope that this move will be pivotal for the people who attend Mars Hill churches.

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  33. “I have mixed feelings on this Acts 29 decision. Of course I’m thankful for this move. However, nothing has changed about Mark Driscoll in the last 10 years except the public outcry. If they had integrity, this would have happened years ago. It makes me wonder if this response is solely due to the overwhelming public outcry.”

    You are correct. The gory details piled up and made it a PR decision. We can read Ron Wheelers story and find he sent Acts 29 Board a letter back in what? 2005 with serious information they ignored and just turned on him. OVer the years I have heard some similar stories.

    The big cheeses from Ed Setzer to Matt Chandler to John Piper have all been very aware of Driscoll shenanigans of firing elders, the coup de tat to consolidate power and even his vulgarity in pornodivinations, etc and it was ALL ignored FOR YEARS. Not only ignored but they continued to actively promote him until the Elephant room and plagiarism charges. Even then, it was a quiet subtle PR move away.

    This was a decision based on money and reputations. Driscoll DNA is all over Acts 29 churches all over the place.

    And the irony of all ironies is that Ron Wheeler was there from the start and talks about the Acts 29 founder David Nichols (Ever heard of him? No?) who brought in Rich DeVoss of Amway to school them on how to structure it. A cultic structure of uplines and downlines hierarchy.

    The best thing to happen would be all those churches fail. Sorry but the damage they are doing to people will be felt for years to come.

    But now they can say, we got rid of the bad person and play the “mark who” game as they are doing in my neck of the woods. But the truth is worse.

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  34. Something else about Piper’s motivation being Proving his own Righteousness:

    Slacktivist mentioned once that the word usually translated as “Righteousness” in English-language Bibles actually has a meaning more like “Justice” and that the two are related. (There’s also the possiblilty that the meaning of Righteousness in English may have changed since King Jimmy.)

    Going back to Patti’s trigger, her image of Piper tsk-tsking her after her date-rape is Righteousness without Justice. And in English, the Bible translation may encourage that kind of Righteousness.

    P.S. In a way, always trying to Prove YOU are one of The Elect is a Calvinist version of “Are You Saved? Are You SURE You’re Saved? Are You Certain You’re Sure? Are You Sure You’re Certain You’re Sure?” etc. I experienced the non-Calvinist version of that during my time in-country, and I can attest That Way Lies Madness.

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  35. Actually, the Acts 29 thing does bring up an interesting question more related to this thread: What will Piper say?

    (And how many M&Ms will we need?)

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  36. “Slacktivist mentioned once that the word usually translated as “Righteousness” in English-language Bibles actually has a meaning more like “Justice” and that the two are related. (There’s also the possiblilty that the meaning of Righteousness in English may have changed since King Jimmy.) ”

    HUG, I am so glad you mentioned this! I did some study on that word a while back and found Justice to be a big part of the definition. It is often taught as some sort of outward piety, I think. God is perfect justice but He expects us to be just. He does not force us to be.

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  37. who brought in Rich DeVoss of Amway

    Amway??!!!

    I know, right? I could not believe my eyes. Have you read Rob Wheelers open letter? DeVoss is also a billionaire. But Amway organizational structure for its business consultants is extremely cultic. With the advent of the internet I have noticed many lawsuits in that world. Did you know that shepherding cults use the same structure?

    I bought a bag of pretzel m&m’s at Walgreens earlier in preparation. Now to hide them from the kids.

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  38. Maybe this will make it through moderation. I misspelled my name. Anyway, on the blog “We Love Mars Hill”, today Ron Wheeler “temporarily” took down his letter to Driscoll. He said he needed to sort through some issues. Something must be going on behind the scenes. Also Throckmorton has posted Mars Hil’s response to Acts 29 firing Driscoll. Sounds like Team Driscoll is digging in their heels.

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  39. “Eagle
    AUGUST 6, 2014 @ 7:26 PM
    @Lisa…here’s the problem. How does John Piper know his family is saved? Especially as a Hyper-Calvinist? I mean his wife could be predestined to hell. He has no confirmation that his family is saved. None, zip, nada!”

    John Piper is not a hyper-calvinist, nor has he ever been one or claimed to be one.

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  40. Of all I’ve read from Mr. Piper, this is the saddest. Not the most infuriating or insulting or offensive, but certainly the saddest.

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  41. Have you read Rob Wheelers open letter?

    I don’t think I did. Was it on the We Love Mars Hill site?

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  42. “Today Ron Wheeler “temporarily” took down his letter to Driscoll.

    . I hope someone got a screen shot.

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  43. “John Piper is not a hyper-calvinist, nor has he ever been one or claimed to be one.”

    Right. That entire NC movement is hyper. They are on “mission” to spread Calvin. So the missions part does not convince me as I live at ground zero and cannot swing a dead cat without hitting a YRR/NC

    Give me my old friends at Louisville Presbyterian Seminary. . Mohler says they are rabid liberals. Great people when I did business with them. Honest, integrity, compassion, etc. I will take those Calvinists any day!

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  44. Ann,

    It is still there.
    http://ronwheelerjr.wordpress.com/2014/08/07/i-am-not-anonymous-2/

    I thought maybe Amway got wind of it and had it taken down. They are mighty powerful with lots of big lawyers.

    Here is the Amway part:

    “Then you met Pastor David Nicholas. Remember David Nicholas? The “co-founder” of Acts29, who often has been written out of the Acts29 story. The one who actually came up with the name Acts29 and already had a church planting system in place. Soon we were flying back to Boca Raton Florida to figure out how we could work together with this seasoned older PCA pastor (Presbyterian Church of America), you with your connections to all these church planter candidates flying under-the-denominational-radar, and David with his years of experience, his connections (friends like Tim Keller and Amway founder Rich DeVos), and his very wealthy church resources. I loved David, and he loved us. He was fatherly to us. He could barely relate to our strange Northwest culture, and yet he partnered with us out of a passionate commitment to church planting.

    I remember during one of our conferences somewhere around 2002, sitting at the table with you there in Boca, when you interviewed Rich DeVos on how he structured his business model. I remember soon thereafter when you started talking about how it wasn’t that important that you knew your people or led them yourself, but that you “led the people, who led the people, who led the people”. Unlike the Chief Shepherd who knows all His sheep by name, knows their voice, and they, His, you distanced yourself from them. In fact, I remember you bragging about how you had this back corridor between your office and the stage and you didn’t have to be interrupted by anyone before or after church. I was so confused. I bought in to the meaning, truth, beauty, mission thing. I certainly didn’t buy into this.”

    Reminds me of how Larry Tomzack was written out of SGM. His cofounding history erased. Methods worthy of the old USSR.

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  45. Reminds me of how Larry Tomzack was written out of SGM. His cofounding history erased. Methods worthy of the old USSR.

    Anyone up to filking “Joe the Georgian” to “Mark the Preacher”?

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  46. Back to the title of this posting, Piper gives a whole new meaning to that hymn “Shall We Gather at the River”, doesn’t he?

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  47. Piper gives a whole new meaning to that hymn “Shall We Gather at the River”, doesn’t he?

    He surely does!!

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  48. @CindyK:

    He’s basically declaring that he’s the new Calvin. From about the five minute mark to the end, he’s basically saying that God needs him to come in and deliver the world’s untold millions through the secret knowledge on which he seems to corner the market – or for which he is the only reliable and effective mouthpiece.

    “Sekrit Knowledge”?
    You mean “OCCULT GNOSIS”?
    (Loose translations into Greek are so much fun. And clarifying.. “Gnostic” means something like “He Who KNOWS Things”. Like Johnny Carson’s “The Great Carnac” skit?)

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  49. @BrendaR:

    Piper gives a whole new meaning to that hymn “Shall We Gather at the River”, doesn’t he?

    He surely does!!

    And having a dirty mind helps.

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  50. Except, if Mark the Martian should happen to land in the same place as Joe the Georgian, I don’t wanna be anywhere near. Dancing or no dancing.

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  51. “You crazy kids better stop driving past my house and making me look to see if you liked your make-out sessions or not!”

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  52. True Christians strive for sexual purity. If you’re scoffing at Piper’s comment, that probably shows you don’t understanding that impulse which probably suggests you may not be a Christian. Examine yourself.

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  53. John, are you still talking about the comment that this post is about or did I miss another comment somewhere in this thread. If it is about the main comment then what impulse are you talking about? Maybe Piper isn’t a true Christian because he has impulses towards sexual impurity by thinking about teen sex in a van down by the river?

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  54. “True Christians strive for sexual purity. If you’re scoffing at Piper’s comment, that probably shows you don’t understanding that impulse which probably suggests you may not be a Christian. Examine yourself.”

    John, can you define sexual purity? I know some (who sound like you) who think kissing before marriage is impure.

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  55. I don’t care whether it’s John the Peeper or John the commenter, the more a person thinks about being sexually pure, the less sexually pure they will be in their imaginations. For example, if John the commenter sees this comment, and especially if he takes up my challenge, he won’t be able to go the next 24 hours without thinking about (here insert any given female-specific body part) multiple times. If he tries to meet my challenge while watching for teenagers coming back from the river, he’ll fail before three seconds are up.

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  56. “don’t care whether it’s John the Peeper or John the commenter, the more a person thinks about being sexually pure, the less sexually pure they will be in their imaginations”

    Exactly.

    There is the other problem that women in burqua’s still get beaten for showing too much ankle because it causes men to lust. So instead of taking responsibility for their own thougths/responses, people in these types of movements tend to blame others.

    In my former church there were a two “purity culture” couples. I had no idea until they decided to marry. Then it became a big deal they had never kissed. (Both couples were in early 30’s and both males had been students at SBTS. Both are Piper fans)

    The couples were very proud of their stance and made it know to all the teens to follow their example. Thankfully most older adults (both single and married) teaching the teens made some very good points concerning their stance as it was discussed in all their classes. (Most of them thought it was ridiculous)

    The best one was this: Why do we know this? Why is it our business? And pointed out Matthew 6 concerning outward piety and that sort of thing is a private choice not a Christian law. And Barnabasintraining, you will be happy to know one youth teacher used your analogy with “Don’t think pink” as an illustration about taking our thoughts captive instead of dwelling on it and bragging about it.

    It caused quite a stir for about 6 months.

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  57. I think purity culture is risky. Maybe this is TMI, but sex is an important part of marriage and I didn’t know if my husband and I had real ‘chemistry’ until we kissed. We were great friends, we shared values, enjoyed each other’s company, and I thought he was nice looking, but I wouldn’t have wanted to say yes to marriage until he kissed me. That settled the issue very nicely.

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  58. “I don’t care whether it’s John the Peeper or John the commenter, the more a person thinks about being sexually pure, the less sexually pure they will be in their imaginations.”

    I spent over two decades in the “purity culture.” You wouldn’t believe the imaginative ways that kids (and adults) get their freak on. I was raised in “the world” — in public and private schools — and I was shocked at how impure the “purity culture” really is.

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  59. Barnabasintraining,

    Aaaaarghh…. Now you’ve gone and done it! I’ve been trying to stop thinking about pink elephants since the early ’70s. Still, maybe better that than to start dwelling on what images might or might not have been forming themselves in John the Peeper’s imagination as he spied on teenagers returning from the river.

    Then there is this: “To the pure all things are pure.” (not sure of the reference right now). Kind of makes you wonder why some seem to have such a compulsion to always be harping on purity.

    It seems to me I have a choice. I can dwell on things that come to mind when I obsess on trying to be pure. Or I can dwell on pink elephants. Our I can dwell on Jesus.

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  60. Hey John:
    I agree with your comment that “true Christians strive for sexual purity” because it is written of extensively in the Bible.

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  61. “True Christians strive for sexual purity.” Yes and no. My thesis is that true Christians seek Jesus. For those who seek Jesus, Sexual purity takes care of itself. Without Jesus as the focus of very beings, it is impossible to be pure, sexually or otherwise. However good the thing pursued, the pursuit of anything other than Jesus is idolatrous. John the Peeper and John the commenter are both quite wrongheaded in what is apparently their de facto, though probably unrecognized, descent into the pursuit of merit-based righteousness. Works are good, but only when derived from Jesus through the power of the Resurrection. All other works are as filthy rags.

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  62. “My thesis is that true Christians seek Jesus.”

    Precisely, Gary. All these rules and standards for purity or anything else keep us from fixing our eyes on Christ. We’re told that fixing our eyes on him is what goes with casting off sin (Heb. 12:1-2), not keeping a bunch of rules and checking items off lists.

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  63. The Bible tells us to refrain from sexual immorality but I don’t remember any passages prescribing sexual purity. I don’t even know what that means. Are faithful married people ‘pure’ or does one have to be a virgin? I think the current popularity of the phrase indicates a deep unease and fear of sexuality, especially women’s sexuality.

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  64. “My thesis is that true Christians seek Jesus.”

    Bingo. Seriously, it is everything BUT Jesus these days!

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  65. “I agree with your comment that “true Christians strive for sexual purity” because it is written of extensively in the Bible.”

    Polygamy. Solomon and his 600 wives and concubines who many think wrote most of the Proverbs and Ecc. I could go on and on. None of it was God’s intention but we see Him working through and around a very pagan cultural backdrop.

    The thing is, I want the teen who has been sexually active to KNOW FOR A FACT that Jesus Christ loves her and wants her for His child. I don’t want some “movement” to shame her away. I want her to know her value and worth as a human being.

    So, to that end, I will warn them of your shaming shunning movement. And pray she sees her worth in Christ to not look for love in the wrong places and to protect and respect herself.

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  66. Lydia,

    The thing is, I want the teen who has been sexually active to KNOW FOR A FACT that Jesus Christ loves her and wants her for His child. I don’t want some “movement” to shame her away. I want her to know her value and worth as a human being.

    Amen. That is what we as Christians should be telling others. No matter what you’ve done or what has been done to you Jesus loves you and is waiting for you just as you are. Our sins are not too big that the blood of Jesus can’t cover them.

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  67. “Maybe it’s that, if you embrace a doctrine, like total depravity, your theology begins to be reflected in your actions”.
    Or, contrariwise, maybe if you’re so totally depraved that you spend your free time watching teenagers in parked cars, it seems perfectly reasonable to you that everybody else is doing the same (or worse), so you declare total depravity as a fact.
    And its something to tell to the cops after the kids call them to report ” some creepy old guy with a super bright flashlight peeking into cars”. Piper can then say, “But, officer, you can’t arrest me, I was conducting theological research!”

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  68. Piper can then say, “But, officer, you can’t arrest me, I was conducting theological research!”

    And wouldn’t it be funny if the officer said: Oh, but it was predestined for you to be arrested, it was in God’s sovereign plan.

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  69. @BeenThereDoneThat:

    I spent over two decades in the “purity culture.” You wouldn’t believe the imaginative ways that kids (and adults) get their freak on.

    Weird (and Plausibly Deniable) Kinks, Fetishes, & Paraphilias?

    Or just redefinition of “sex” or “knowing someone Biblically” so that using other orifices “isn’t really sex” a la Douggie ESQUIRE? (According to an online slang dictionary, “Christian side hug” is slang for “non-genital sex, done to preserve technical virginity”. I wonder how it got that name?)

    Thing is, I was NOT raised in Christianese Purity Culture (far from it), yet I ended up internalizing ALL the traits and attitudes of it. (Including a massive case of virgin/whore dichotomy.) I still don’t know how that happened. My only theory (and it’s a weak one) is growing up as an emotionally-isolated kid genius with a steady diet of Fifties and First 1960s movies and TV must have had a similar effect.

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  70. @ zooey111, But Piper didn’t say he was watching teens in parked cars. You’ve misrepresented what he said and broken the 9th commandment. You must repent. Piper said he watches them returning, that is driving out. Making observations about people’s demeanor in public is not at all inappropriate or “creepy”. You interpret that way because slander is in your heart.

    And to the other scoffers here:
    If you’re really about seeking Jesus first, you won’t be making scoffing comments just to make yourself feel superior to a good spiritual leader like Piper whom you’re trying to run down.

    True Christians seek sexual purity. There is no seeking Jesus without it.

    And true Christians don’t lie about what Piper said and come here to scoff at him.

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  71. Methinks John is making me feel reviled and slandered.

    I suggest that he be marked and avoided. Then we should shun him. Before he gets the idea of doing the same thing to us. I would be SO grieved of John decided to boycott us. Especially given his humble attitude of HUMBLE rectitude.

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  72. By the way John, John Piper has done a lot of damage. I’ve seen a bit of it firsthand. There are nobody knows how many women and children who are being enslaved and terrorized by abusive husbands/fathers thanks to the teachings of Piper and his Ilk. I wish them the best insofar as their eternal destinies are concerned, but their satanic doctrines cannot be consigned to fiery hell any too soon.

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  73. John!

    “You’ve misrepresented what he said and broken the 9th commandment. You must repent.”

    9th commandment – Don’t give a false testimony. A false testimony is like defamation. It’s like what the Pharasees said about Jesus. It’s something that is completely not true, in an attempt to discredit them. It has no basis.

    Is she slandering him? Refer your next comment – “Making observations about people’s demeanor in public is not at all inappropriate”. Therefore, Zoe’s interpretation of John’s online demeanour, of his doctrine, his ministry, is an observation.

    “You interpret that way because slander is in your heart.”

    And you’re Jesus, right John?

    “And to the other scoffers here: If you’re really about seeking Jesus first, you won’t be making scoffing comments just to make yourself feel superior to a good spiritual leader like Piper whom you’re trying to run down.”

    Wow John, describing yourself there? Actually, your reply to Zoe is very similar to the Calvinist interpretation of the Ninth Commandment.

    “True Christians seek sexual purity. There is no seeking Jesus without it.”

    I take it you’re a true Christian then. You have also assigned the right to judging my salvation about my sexual purity.

    “And true Christians don’t lie about what Piper said and come here to scoff at him.”

    No, because lying is a sin. Like giving false testimony. Which is different to your making observations comment.

    Fruits mate, fruits. Besides…what WAS he doing??

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  74. John,
    Have you looked at any of the interviews of John Piper? Are you a member of his mega church? I was there once a few years ago, it is indeed a mega church with quite a following. He was on a writing leave of absence at the time.

    It is my belief that he is not as much a follower of Jesus as he is a follower of John Calvin. He is an oppressor of women, also my opinion based on what I have heard come from his own lips. I have read several of his books and conclude by that reading that he twists scripture to make his own rules and possibly Calvin’s and not what God has inspired in His word. I now pick up those books at thrift stores, garage sales or even the free books table at church so that unsuspecting people can’t get there eyes on them quite so easily.

    John Piper has been asked to answer questions regarding his theology at A Cry for Justice blog and doesn’t respond. There is oppression within the church and the body of those churches are allowing it to happen. They are not questioning those in charge, which is turning away people who need community and support. I don’t see scoffing going on here, but facts stated from people who are on to an abusive leader.

    Your last name wouldn’t happen to be Piper would it?

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  75. “Your last name wouldn’t happen to be Piper would it?”

    Or maybe it’s Peeper.

    Whichever. I’m thinking I’ll start referring to John the Commenter as John the Accuser of the Saints, maybe AOTS for short. Trouble is, I expect there would still be confusion whether I was referring to the Peeper or the Commenter. I know that when I tried doing a teaching from one of the Peeper’s books (yes, it was “This Momentary Marriage”), all I managed was to make one of the participants feel accused. Accused, not convicted.

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  76. @HUG
    “Weird (and Plausibly Deniable) Kinks, Fetishes, & Paraphilias?”

    Yeah, that. Growing up I’d heard of pedophilia, but I’d never actually known anyone affected by that. (Though I did learn recently that a teacher in my Junior High school is considered “one of the most prolific pedophiles in memory” by the FBI) After my time spent in a “church” of about 1000 people (give or take) who, in the words of commenter John, were “True Christians [seeking] sexual purity,” I now have the dubious honor of knowing pedophiles and those into bestiality and incest.

    Maybe everybody runs across people like this? IDK It took me being a part of the “purity culture” to find it. There were also plenty of kids (lots of elder’s kids) who were “getting it on” in the standard way. So, from my vantage point, the “purity culture” ain’t so pure.

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  77. And, for the record, I’m not against striving to be pure. I just agree that it shouldn’t be the legalistic focus on a walk with God. I wish that whole movement had more balance. I also knew of one couple who did follow the “rules” and remain “pure.” (They were actually a sweet couple when I knew them.) But, since they’d had no sex-ed, they weren’t able to get pregnant for a long time after being married. Some adults finally clued in, and I believe they finally got the education they needed. They have a rather large family now.

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  78. Gary, Hold on a minute. Perhaps John posseses one of the Piper Decoder Rings and can translate his vague platitude tweets?

    John writes:

    “@ zooey111, But Piper didn’t say he was watching teens in parked cars. You’ve misrepresented what he said and broken the 9th commandment. You must repent. Piper said he watches them returning, that is driving out. Making observations about people’s demeanor in public is not at all inappropriate or “creepy”. You interpret that way because slander is in your heart.”

    So Zooey broke the 9th commandment by saying he was watching teens in parked cars. But this is confusing because then John goes on to say that actually Piper watches them RETURNING …as in driving out. Returning from what? See the implication that is confusing. Now, if you recall the original tweet Piper was insinuating they had been making whoopee and he could tell this by the looks on their faces and they were not happy. (that seemed to be the point of his tweet thinking we will ignore the creepier parts)

    So I need to ask John a question. Since Piper did not see these many couples “driving out” in action making whoopee how do you know HE is not bearing false witness against them? Perhaps they were fighting. Perhaps they were discussing thermodynamics. I mean, Piper has no evidence of whoopee. He could very well be bearing false witness.

    and why would he position himself to watch these couples (it sounds to be over and over) driving out? What sort of creepy thrill did that give him if sexual purity is the goal?

    Sounds like Piper might have a 9th commandment problem. A judgement upfront without evidence. He assumed the worst.

    Now. John can you help us with “Deep to Deep” tweet? Piper seems fixated on sexual innuendos. Very creepy. Perhaps you can help.

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  79. Christians are under the law of Moses now? I thought we did away with that.

    Oh, ya, they believe law plus grace.

    I was reminded yesterday in a sermon a quote from the Bible, and it was said numerous times, so that we get it. That quote was: The Law Made NOTHING perfect.

    Zoey is not under the law, John. You can’t break a law that is dead to you. You can’t break the 9th commandment.

    But if you are under the law, just make sure that you don’t gather sticks on Saturday.

    Ed

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  80. Gary,
    “This Momentary Marriage” was the first book I read when I finally figured out that things were only getting worse in my marriage. This book had the same affect on me. I felt accused, hurt, sinful for not wanting to lay down my life for the “marriage”. What idolatry that was. Praise God for Leslie Vernick and Barbara Roberts books, which lead me out of the fog and the reminders of who I am in Christ, not who I am in marriage. I praise God for his rescue from the invisible prison.

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