Spiritual Encouragement, Spiritual Sounding Board Forum, SSB Sunday Gathering, Stories of Hope

SSB Sunday Gathering – August 3, 2014

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Spiritual Sounding Board  – This is our place to gather and share in an open format.  Feel free to join in the discussion.

 

 

Spiritual sounding board, SSB 257774_10151219754388653_279689057_o

 

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This is your place to share your church struggles and concerns.
Let’s also use it as a time to encourage one another spiritually.
What have you found spiritually encouraging lately?
Do you have any special Bible verses to share, any YouTube songs that you have found uplifting?

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Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ. Ephesians 1:3-10

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216 thoughts on “SSB Sunday Gathering – August 3, 2014”

  1. “The very next verse, Heb 13:18, uses #3982 peitho also.
    Only this time it is NOT obey. The word is TRUST.”

    Amos, I know. Interesting the word choices translators choose, isn’t it?

    Like

  2. O’Reilly never properly apologized to innocent kidnapping victim Shawn Hornbeck, for the horrible things he said about him on live TV. That was enough for me to abandon Fox News indefinitely…

    Like

  3. waitingforthetrumpet2

    Your story blows my mind. So proud of you! That might sound odd, but I have paid attention to the things you have endured… You are remarkable beyond definition.

    The mother that hurt you, you shower with prayer & love & care. That is grace & beauty. Oh my my. I can’t wait to have a chat with you on the other side.

    Like

  4. Oasis,

    Hi there!!

    The one thing that I love about Fox News is the debates, the disagreements, etc. There are things that I disagree with all of them from time to time. But not all Fox News employees are in lock step with each other, like the other networks are. Greta Van Sesturan, for example, debated the issue with him. No other network would even consider a debate.

    I’ve seen Bill go toe to toe in a very vain popping red face fierce debate with Jeroldo Rivera on issues. So what? Both sides are played out. That is what they call “Fair and Balanced”. They Report, We Decide.

    MSLSD would wimp out on such debate, and just default “blame the GOP” rhetoric. They Report, They Decide.

    Fox News is the Highest Rated by viewership by the Nielson Corporation statistics.

    I like Bill. I don’t always agree with Bill. But I don’t have to, to enjoy watching Bill.

    Ed

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  5. Gail, I can hardly wait. Be looking for me. I’ll be the one with the clear olive green eyes and huge smile. 🙂

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  6. waitingforthetrumpet2,

    You might want to carry a sign, cuz there might be many with clear olive green eyes and a huge smile!! I too am amazed at your grace towards others. You are a great example of what God is all about.

    Ed

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  7. Hi, Ed! I know you love a good debate, and I have no problem with them in general, either. But in 2007, O’Reilly crossed a personal line with me, and as it turns out, with many others. That year, the National Center for Missing Kids even cancelled him as a speaker at a dinner event they held, because of his comments about Shawn, and had John Walsh speak instead.

    Imagine if you were kidnapped at age 11 by a pedophile with a gun, who threatened your life, restrained you, and forced you into a pact which trapped you into enduring four terrifying years of sexual abuse, including being used in the production of child porn, and then forced you to help kidnap an additional boy…

    Then, upon rescue, at age 15, a man in a suit and tie who pretends to be a child advocate, goes on live TV and declares that there was something fun about your situation that you liked, because you did not try to get away. He essentially blames you for the situation, as though you were responsible and chose to be at the kidnapper’s house.

    How do you think you would feel about O’Reilly? Not sure why a young kidnap victim’s innocence is up for debate. O’Reilly did say he would apologize if it turned out he was wrong (as if there was ever any doubt), but he chickened out.

    Like

  8. Oasis,

    I get your point. There are many things that I disagree with Bill about. Everyone has opinions, whether right, or wrong. But his wrong opinion is not a deterrence for me to stop watching his show. Why? Because there is always a person on the other side to debate Bill with an opposing opinion.

    Bill did not kidnap the boy. Bill did not force the boy to kidnap another. He is not responsible for the situation of the boy/boys. Bill just gave an opinion.

    Many people, not just Bill, can’t figure out why a person just doesn’t leave, or escape similar situations when it is obvious that they can. Take an abused spouse for example. Many people ask the simple question, “Why didn’t she just leave?” We’ve discussed this topic on Julie Anne’s blog before. Some just can’t figure it out, and really think that the person could have left at any time.

    Well, do we condemn those who ask that question, because truly, they really believe that if it was abusive, they could leave the situation, “if they wanted to”. They have opportunities to leave, like when he’s at work, or whatever.

    We all have opinions, and everyone’s opinions are wrong from time to time. But who is really responsible for the actions taken upon the boy? Bill, or the kidnapper?

    Ed

    Like

  9. Everyone has opinions, whether right, or wrong.

    That is truly profound. I told a lady my story about the abuse and sexual assault I lived with through my childhood. She asked, “couldn’t you have said something?”. Unless you’ve been through it you don’t get it. I don’t hold her accountable for what happened to me even though the question was without empathy. This same woman said of the abusive X after I left my home, “He is so miserable.” Again no empathy for the victim. Again she has not lived it and X is a very good actor outside of the home. My children’s response was quite different. They were glad that I finally left and encouraged me not to listen to his false repentance. They were right!! He can be sweet as long as you believe what he says no matter how much of a lie it is.

    Bill O’Reilly is no different. He doesn’t understand what this boy went through and how the brainwashing he went through had put him into a fog. It doesn’t matter how old he was. He hadn’t matured in a right way. Bill could have been more empathetic, but all he saw was a boy “old enough” to make decisions. It just doesn’t work that way. On the other hand, O’Reilly has said some things that make a lot of sense.

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  10. Even the Patty Hearst situation had people on both sides wondering why she didn’t just leave. She was brainwashed to have sympathy for her kidnappers, and they convinced her to do things that she normally wouldn’t have done.

    From Wikipedia:
    “Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness.[1][2] The FBI’s Hostage Barricade Database System shows that roughly 8% of victims show evidence of Stockholm syndrome.[3]

    Stockholm syndrome can be seen as a form of traumatic bonding, which does not necessarily require a hostage scenario, but which describes “strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other.”[4] One commonly used hypothesis to explain the effect of Stockholm syndrome is based on Freudian theory. It suggests that the bonding is the individual’s response to trauma in becoming a victim. Identifying with the aggressor is one way that the ego defends itself. When a victim believes the same values as the aggressor, they cease to be a threat.”

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  11. It is not my intention to deter you or anyone else away from Bill or Fox News. Neither is it my intention to debate about either (my nerves could not handle it). I just wanted to explain why I am so disgusted with Bill, and it has to do with my total lack of tolerance for someone attacking (Bill never asked a single question) a young victim on air with premature and unfounded accusations. His failure to live up to his word and apologize, as a so-called advocate, also bothers me.

    So, I decided not to listen to anything else he had to say, and for me that meant changing the channel. I know this seems like an extreme reaction to some, and that is totally fine.

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  12. It doesn’t seem like an extreme reaction to me. I avoid people who lack empathy like the plague. I think it is our obligation as human beings to try to understand what others are going through.

    What is so hard to understand in this case? The boy bargained for his life when he was a very young child. He promised that if the man who was about to murder him would spare his life, he would stay with him and not tell. He was raised to keep his promises.

    On another note, I can’t think of a single time when I ever agreed with Bill O.

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  13. Oasis,

    I understand. There is a lot of people that take your position that I run into a lot, that if Bill states something that they disagree with, they change the channel. But, you know me. I am always up for controversy. My nerves can handle it. I am not defending Bill in this case, or any other. I’m just saying that I don’t mind hearing people’s wrong opinions. From time to time I also change the channel to see what the one sided news networks have to say on things. They mock and ridicule anyone that has an opinion that doesn’t match theirs. In my opinion, right or wrong, at least Fox presents both sides. But I understand your position.

    Well, gotta get to work. Everyone have a great day!!

    Ed

    Like

  14. Ed – Forget Work… 😉

    WOW…

    “Stockholm syndrome can be seen as a form of **traumatic bonding,** which does not necessarily require a hostage scenario, but which describes **strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently **harasses, **beats, **threatens, **abuses, or **intimidates the other.**[4]

    One commonly used hypothesis to explain the effect of Stockholm syndrome is based on Freudian theory. It suggests that the bonding is the individual’s response to trauma in becoming a victim. **Identifying with the “aggressor” is one way that the ego defends itself.**

    When a victim believes the same values as the aggressor,
    they cease to be a threat.”

    Could this “Stockholm Syndrome” be a reason why so many of us “Allowed” this abuse from “Pastor/Leaders” over the years. Listening to Heb 13:17, from the pulpit, again, and again. And WE, His Sheep, have been **harassed, **beaten, **threatened, with Heb 13:17, again, and again. “Obey your leaders, and Submit to them…” and I’m your “leader.” – “Obey your leaders, and Submit to them…” and I’m your “leader.” – “Obey your leaders, and Submit to them…” and I’m your “leader.”

    And WE, His Ekklesia, become that “victim”…
    WE, His Sheep, decide to “believes the same values as the aggressor”
    So that WE, His Servants, “cease to become a threat.”

    And just go along with the rest of the crowd who…
    “have been **harassed, **beaten, **threatened, with Heb 13:17,”
    And are also in lock-step with the aggressor… Obey your leaders?

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  15. As I was reading through these comments, I was thinking about empathy. If someone is unable to have empathy towards a person, it is as if they are rejecting part of their personhood.

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  16. Ed, since you mentioned the movie, “God’s Not Dead”, I thought I’d mention a couple reviews you might want to check out. (I’m not expecting that you will, however much I’d like you to) Dan Fincke, who writes on Patheos, actually IS an atheist philosophy professor and took great issue with this film. His review of it is his longest entry yet on his site, “Camels With Hammers”. Just today, another fellow who writes for Patheos has added his review – Neil Carter (Godless in Dixie) Both these men grew up in fundamentalist environments and were firmly entrenched in their beliefs. They also changed their minds for intellectual reasons and are now atheists. Here’s an excerpt from Neil’s review of the movie.

    “… it’s not loving people well to misrepresent themselves this badly. This movie caricatures, dehumanizes, and depersonalizes people like me, portraying us in the worst possible light. How could I not find this movie disgustedly offensive? Every single atheist in this film is a spineless, uncaring jerk.”

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  17. wftt2,
    I just read your story. You are truly a survivor. God be with you each step of your journey. A crown awaits you. (((((HUGS))))) You are in my prayer journal. God bless you.

    Like

  18. Ed, Bill did more than merely state something I disagree with, but I already explained this.

    “It doesn’t seem like an extreme reaction to me.”

    Hey, thanks, Marsha. I avoid them, too, and I think having been the target of a kidnapper myself at one point makes things like this even more personal for me. But regardless, in complete agreement with you about our obligation as human beings! To walk alongside a victim and listen, and attempt to hear him or her, without covering our eyes and/or ears, and without burying our heads in the sand…is love, and what he/she deserves.

    Like

  19. “As I was reading through these comments, I was thinking about empathy. If someone is unable to have empathy towards a person, it is as if they are rejecting part of their personhood.”

    So true, Julie Anne.

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  20. Ed, you asked me yesterday what turned me off about existence after this life and I told you that I just can’t accept it as a rational, sensible thing that happens to a dead body. I realize that in order to believe in the supernatural, one must accept things that have no basis in rationality, sensibility, or reason. It’s called ‘faith’. I gave a short answer yesterday because I was busy and didn’t want to go to the trouble of expanding on my reasons for rejecting faith. Today, it’s raining and I have more time.

    Please know that I have no quibble with anyone on this blog, personally. Your ideas about religion are what I do have a problem with, and I see fundamentalism (which rears its ugly head on this blog) as a huge problem in today’s society – in fact, I see it as a deterrent to civilized behaviour. It’s no secret that if christian fundamentalists have their way, many groups in society will be alienated, vilified, and eventually persecuted. We all know who those groups are. Here’s what I have against religion in general, and fundamentalism in particular.

    1) The idea of hell. To me, it seems abhorrent that a supernatural being would issue an edit such as BELIEVE.. or ELSE. That god (and every other god who expects this), I have rejected. I cannot accept this as a condition for allegiance.

    2) The bible. You already know that I think this collection of Bronze-Age mythical tales is full of inconsistencies, unprovable ( even completely bizarre ) tales of superhuman people and feats, and is reflective of a specific time period which has very little – if any – bearing on our world today. It was written BY men, FOR men. We have learned, on this blog, the problems that have arisen from men who take the written word and use it as a bludgeon, to justify what they see as their god-given right to rule – how many people want to argue with divine authority?

    3) The thinking that without god, there’s no morality. What a dreadful thing to think about other human beings. Of course we ALL have the ability to reason (we all have a brain), experience emotion, and know right from wrong inherently. We do not need an invisible spirit to provide inspiration or insight. We have that ability all on our own. Surely you must have read countless stories of people who have deconverted – are those people any different now than they were when they were going to church? I doubt it very much! Read their stories for confirmation.

    The stories you, Ed, and Brenda tell about your children – the children you LOVE – and their disbelief. Those stories upset me. I am a mother. I deconverted in response to my children, who have all become ‘Nones’. I respect, admire, and cherish my children and their opinions. Which is why I started re-thinking my position. I realized they were right and I was wrong. Your statements about your daughters break my heart – they both contain such disrespect for their opinions. Neither one of you are even willing to admit – for one moment – that YOU might be wrong. I honestly do feel bad for both of you, but more than that, I feel that the fundamentalist box that you are in prevents you both from letting the light of reason in. That was a heartfelt, sensible letter that I had Julie Anne send to you, Ed. I wish you had read it all the way through and actually thought about it.

    I really do wish both of you well.

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  21. Carmen – was the letter in the link? I sent Ed a link. If there was something else I was supposed to send him, please send it to me again. Too many frying pans going. See – I even forgot that expression – lol.

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  22. “Hey, thanks, Marsha. I avoid them, too, and I think having been the target of a kidnapper myself at one point makes things like this even more personal for me. But regardless, in complete agreement with you about our obligation as human beings! To walk alongside a victim and listen, and attempt to hear him or her, without covering our eyes and/or ears, and without burying our heads in the sand…is love, and what he/she deserves.”

    And rightly so. You can understand. It is a similar reaction I had over Braxton Caner. My kids have been targeted in the same way by adult “Christians” trying to drive a wedge between us. I know the dynamics well.

    Your reaction is healthy.

    With that said, I like to read both sides of an issue when it comes to politics, etc. I think both sides, right and left, can get into “ghetto” thinking just like fundy churches do.

    Like

  23. Yes, JA -the link was in the letter. I really wanted Brenda to be able to read it, too.

    I’ll re-send, just in case! Thanks!! xx

    Like

  24. “It’s no secret that if christian fundamentalists have their way, many groups in society will be alienated, vilified, and eventually persecuted. We all know who those groups are. ”

    And Carmen, it is no secret that if the other side has their way, people will be alienated, vilified and eventually persecuted. And many of us know who those groups are.

    It works both ways. That is why free speech is essential. even for all the jerks. When we all learn tactics we can make a choice on not joining a fundy group. But when it comes to government micromanaging speech we are losing our “choices”. We had best beware.

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  25. What’s obvious to me is that you don’t read any atheist blogs, Lydia. There is NO war on christianity – that’s what Bill O’Reilly, Michele Bachmann and others would have you believe. Honestly, start reading some decent literature.

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  26. Things that make me go – Hmmm?

    How does God give us Mere Humans the ability to put out a fire?

    Jesus, takes two *Highly Flammable* gases, Hydrogen and Oxygen…
    He puts them together in the proper amounts…

    And, we get some H2O, a liquid – that puts out the flames…

    Wow – How does Jesus think up this stuff… 😉

    Like

  27. Things that make me go – Hmmm?

    How does God bring heat to this Earth?

    He places a ball of fire, that hasn’t gone out for, err, a long, long, time…
    Over 92 million miles away. And during the day the Earth warms…

    Now the Sun is kinda hot – And on Earth we can feel that hot…

    But – Between the Sun (Hot) and the Earth (Warm)

    We call it space… It is very, very, very, COLD.

    So, God, gets *the heat* from the Sun – To the Earth…
    With nothing but COLD in between…

    Wow – How does Jesus think up this stuff… 😉

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  28. carmen,

    I love having you here and commenting because you see abuse issues in church and are so concerned about them. But I do want to be careful about challenging Christians to consider atheism. I am a Christian and while my blog’s audience is primarily directed to Christians, I welcome all to join in the discussion.

    Some readers have had their faith shattered due to spiritual bullies and atheism might actually appeal to them. However, I’d like my blog to be a place that facilitates spiritual healing as people renew their relationship with Christ in healthy ways, not look for other ways of spirituality and dismiss Christ altogether.

    Like

  29. “What’s obvious to me is that you don’t read any atheist blogs, Lydia. There is NO war on christianity – that’s what Bill O’Reilly, Michele Bachmann and others would have you believe. Honestly, start reading some decent literature.”

    Actually, I do read atheist blogs and have many Atheist friends. I agree there is no “war” on Christianity nor should Christians run around saying they are persecuted. That is ridiculous in light of Iraq and Syria right now.

    What I do know is that many Christians are censored in much the same way others say they are censored in fundy churches. If a Christian is uncomfortable with the popular notion of homosexuality as normal they are called “hateful”. It is often called hateful to disagree with any form of discomfort over that very organized movement in America. There are discernment blogs where someone not even dare hint they are uncomfortable with the idea scripture is not talking about monogamous homosexual relationships, then people go postal on them. You cannot even have a civil discussion much less a civil disagreement. They are accused of wanting to oppress people, not wanting them to have “civil rights” and imprisonment. It is ridiculous. You did it earlier with the “stoning” comment. It is over the top.

    And you did not need to insult me. I read plenty. and I have not even given my full opinion on the issue. I am simply looking at tactics, methods that are used in these discussions. Both sides need to grow up and stop using the tactics.

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  30. You know that I have great respect for you, Julie Anne. I was asked a direct question and I replied. I would think that, for persons of faith, it would be impossible for me to hold out any kind of appeal for atheism. After all, isn’t that what faith is all about?

    Besides, I don’t even consider myself to be an atheist – for now, I’m a non-believer in the christian god – a few of my reasons have been outlined above. I’ll try to control myself, however, ’cause I like ya. 🙂

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  31. Carmen, let me add that I have many good atheist friends who act more Christian than most of the Christians I know. That is why they are such good friends to me. I had an atheist boss who was the most compassionate, generous, full of integrity, honest man I have ever known. I used to tease him he would make a great Christian.

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  32. You are correct, Lydia. I did insult you and I apologize. I need to count to 100 before I press ‘send’. 🙂

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  33. Carmen,
    There has been a war on Christians since before the word Christian began being used. It began pointed at the Jews and after Jesus was crucifed it continued on. The Romans killed as many of them as they could get their hands on. Even Paul while still named Saul as a Jew, persecuted the Christians and sent many to prison and to their death.

    Being an atheist will never be an option for me and I will continue to pray until I take my last breath that my daughter comes to know, love and servce Christ as her Savior. He is not evil, he is love, but he is also just.

    Like

  34. Things that make me go – Hmmm?

    How does God give us Mere Humans the ability to put out a fire?

    Jesus, takes two *Highly Flammable* gases, Hydrogen and Oxygen…
    He puts them together in the proper amounts…

    And, we get some H2O, a liquid – that puts out the flames…

    Wow – How does Jesus think up this stuff… 😉

    Amos,

    You make me laugh. Thank you for that. I really needed it.

    Like

  35. Things that make me go – Hmmm?

    How does God bring heat to this Earth?

    Amos,
    Keep them coming. This is a great way to end the work day. My boss is on vacation and I have loads of time on my hands. lol

    Like

  36. wftt2,
    Proving the existence of God

    Not that I needed any proof, but that was a good article and a good way of explaining who He is and how He operates. He is I AM and God alone.

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  37. “You are correct, Lydia. I did insult you and I apologize. I need to count to 100 before I press ‘send’. :)”

    Thank you! I have learned from you and value your comments.

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  38. “There has been a war on Christians since before the word Christian began being used. It began pointed at the Jews and after Jesus was crucifed it continued on. The Romans killed as many of them as they could get their hands on. Even Paul while still named Saul as a Jew, persecuted the Christians and sent many to prison and to their death. ”

    Brenda, I feel the need to point out that when Christianity was made legal by Constantine, Christians started “warring” for converts and conquests. Even Augustine wanted to wipe out the Donatists because they had a problem taking communion from corrupt priests!

    Christian history is a bloody evil mess until our Founders eschewed the state church paradigm and most of Europe started dismantling the state church ties after WW1. (The archives were not even opened to outside scholars until after WW2)

    . We have much to be ashamed of in drowning those who believed in adult baptism, burning heretics who disagreed with the pope or Reformed doctrines, etc. England got a new religion because a king wanted a divorce! Martin Luther wrote vile things about Jews. Christianity is responsible for tons of persecuting throughout history starting with the “universal” church.

    If you get the chance, read Martyrs Mirror. You will cry your eyes out.

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  39. Lydia,

    Who are you considering our Founders?

    I have read Faithful Unto Death. I’m thinking it is a similar form of book to Martyrs Mirror. “So-called Christians” may have been involved in drowning those who believed in adult baptism and burning “so-called” heretics who disagreed with the pope and many other things, but all of that is not Christianity. That was a cult using the name Christian, an affiliate of the government and not followers of Christ. If they were Christians they would have believed in adult baptism, in following the same example shown by Jesus in his own baptism.

    People have been creating their own “churches” for various reasons for a very long time, mostly because they wanted to change God’s Word to suit themselves.

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  40. Ed,
    I haven’t seen “God’s Not Dead” yet, but it is available at Redbox so I plan to rent it sometime this next week. I looked at the reviews on several sites and the majority were positive. I have a friend that is going to come over and watch it with me.

    Like

  41. “Your reaction is healthy.”

    Thank you. Yes, a similar reaction, and I understand why you were furious!

    “With that said, I like to read both sides of an issue when it comes to politics, etc.”

    Yes, me too. In fact, I love reading all sides of an issue, or shall I say, the ghetto!…that is, until the blood temp gets too high, or unless something is too personally triggering. Then a boundary is drawn. Why torture myself? 🙂

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  42. “Who are you considering our Founders?”

    Our Theistic Founding Fathers. I love what Madison wrote for example:

    “Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize, every expanded prospect.”James Madison, letter to William Bradford, April 1, 1774 (He wrote this after finding some Baptists preachers in jail simply for publishing their religous views in Virginia)

    That Religion or the duty we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, being under the direction of reason and conviction only, not of violence or compulsion, all men are equally entitled to the full and free exercise of it according to the dictates of Conscience. James Madison, Amendments to the Virginia Declaration of Rights, June 1776

    It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage and such only as he believes to be acceptable to him. This duty is precedent, both in order of time and in degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. James Madison, Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, circa June 20, 1785

    The civil rights of none, shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretext infringed. James Madison, proposed amendment to the Constitution, given in a speech in the House of Representatives, 1789

    Conscience is the most sacred of all property. James Madison, essay on Property, March 29, 1792

    Among the features peculiar to the political system of the United States, is the perfect equality of rights which it secures to every religious sect. James Madison, letter to Jacob de la Motta, August 1820

    We are teaching the world the great truth that Governments do better without Kings & Nobles than with them. The merit will be doubled by the other lesson that Religion Flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Government. James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

    “I have read Faithful Unto Death. I’m thinking it is a similar form of book to Martyrs Mirror. ”

    I had better warn you. Martyrs Mirror weighs about 15 lbs! It is as much documentation as could be found about all the religous murders over about a 500 year period by “Christians” in power.

    “So-called Christians” may have been involved in drowning those who believed in adult baptism and burning “so-called” heretics who disagreed with the pope and many other things, but all of that is not Christianity.”

    Oh, I so agree! I always wonder about those who were forced to attend and pay homage. (I have always wondered how Calvin knew who was elect in Geneva since they were mandated to attend church services or be punished. :o)

    Here is our problem. The unbelieving world hears us use the same name. I am not suggesting ideas here. It is a conumdrum that plagues me daily. And so many of our churches are corrupt with so many people supporting the charlatans and gurus. I am so glad we have blogs that are saying, This is not of Christ! You can trust us with your life.

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  43. Hey Carmen,

    I was hoping that you would watch the movie, and make up your own mind. 

    However, the reason for the movie was based on what we have been discussing in regards to “hate speech”.  The credits at the end of the movie lists numerous, and I do mean numerous colleges throughout the United States that are in litigation about religious freedom being trampled on in our colleges.

    I can’t speak for Canada, but the United States was founded upon religious freedom, and we do, by our Constitution, have freedom of speech.  And we have people that want to classify OUR freedom of speech, as hate speech.  We have atheist left wing professors that are trying to dictate to our college students what they can and cannot read, or talk about or practice in our colleges.

    That was the point of the movie, to give, how you liberals say, “awareness” to the fact that we have the left wanting to shut down our freedom.  I’ve never heard such nonsense before in my life than I have the last 15 years.  We have now, in my lifetime, “thought police”. 

    Now, if we want to discuss atheism, I have a roommate that is an atheist.  He was raised a Catholic.  We have discussions.  I told him 3 times that if he is going to slam Catholicism as his basis for being an atheist, that I will shut him down, because whatever he states about Catholicism, I will always agree with him.  Catholicism creates more atheists than any other religion in the world.  George Carlin was a famous ex-Catholic atheist.

    But, MY point is that it is in MY soul that there is something MORE in my existence BEYOND this life.  Now, you keep using the word FUNDY, or the like.  IF by the word, you mean to disparage Christianity, then you don’t really know Christianity.  But IF, by that word, you are indicating the Calvinists, then hey, I will march right along side of you.

    But if you are going to use science as your means for unbelief, then I don’t buy into the argument, because science will never see the invisible.  Not even with a microscope. 

    I laid out my reasons as to why I believe.  An atheist review of a movie is not going to move me.  As I said, I live with an atheist.  We have great discussions, and he’s a great friend.  We get along really well.  My personal problems are with people who claim to be Christians, and do not reflect Christianity.  I think you call them FUNDY’s.  I call them hypocrites.  But that does not negate out the God that promises eternal life for those who believe, or eternal death for those who REJECT.

    If I am wrong, I have nothing to lose.  If you are wrong…you have a lot to lose.  The rules state that there is no apologizing if you are wrong.  You have this life to choose.  Once you are dead, it’s too late.

    Respectfully,

    Ed

    ________________________________

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  44. Lydia,

    You had said: “Brenda, I feel the need to point out that when Christianity was made legal by Constantine, Christians started “warring” for converts and conquests. Even Augustine wanted to wipe out the Donatists because they had a problem taking communion from corrupt priests!”

    My response:

    I was never Catholic, I was never Lutheran, I was never Calvinist, so what do I have to apologize for?  I be no denomination.

    Just askin!!

    Ed

    ________________________________

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  45. Brenda,

    Ya, I saw it 4 times in the movie theaters.  I loved it.  Most Christian produced movies these days are pretty cheesy.  This one was different.  I hope you like it.

    Ed

    ________________________________

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  46. Ed, I was speaking from the pov concerning Christians being persecuted. For much of history they were persecuting each other. You are not guilty. But I can see how an unbeliever would view it. I think we should own up to it and agree it was evil and not of Christ. And stop promoting persecuting tyrants like Calvin as heros of the faith.

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  47. Carmen,

    As far as I can see, yes, there is a war on Christianity in America.

    Kids today are not even allowed to recite the Pledge of Allegiance anymore. Why? Because the word God is in the Pledge.

    Kids today are not being taught to respect the country that they were born in. There is a loss of patriatism. I SEE IT. I am not delusional, along with Michelle Bachman, etc. I SEE IT every single day. I spent many years in the US Navy. There has been a major shift in the average American’s dedication to this country. We are losing our freedom.

    This is NOT the same America that I grew up in. It is getting worse and worse each day. Yes, we do have a war against Christianity going on here.

    Ed

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  48. I’m wondering, Ed. If the word ‘allah’, or ‘zeus’, was in the pledge of allegiance, would you see why it’s not right for kids to be reciting that?
    What you see as a war on christianity, I see as a pushback against christian privilege.

    Like

  49. Lydia,
    What a relief. You were speaking of the US “Founders”. By 6:00 in the evening my brain wants to shut down. I should just shut this thing off by then. I loose track of who is from where and loose ability to concentrate . I believe when our founding fathers spoke of religious freedom, they were only speaking of the belief in God alone, but there would be no wars over individual doctrine.

    Just as long as Martyr’s Mirror is in large enough type, I think I will tackle it. I recently purchased a commentary written by Matthew Henry and the type is so small I have to use a magnefying glass to read it. My bi-focals are not strong enough for that. “Faithful Unto Death” is about individual martyrs who were quite young, but continued to speak of their Faith in Christ to the last breath. I have read several books about individual Martyr’s. They are inspiring and humbling at the same time, while wondering if I would have the courage they had while being tortured the way they were. Well….so many books so little time. Books on cd would be great!!

    I have thought about the whole everyone calling themselves Christian and showing no fruit of the term quite often. My thought was that we who choose to follow Jesus and not a guru telling us how to think should go back to “The Way”.

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  50. Thank you, Ed; You said:

    If I am wrong, I have nothing to lose. If you are wrong…you have a lot to lose. The rules state that there is no apologizing if you are wrong. You have this life to choose. Once you are dead, it’s too late.

    I tried throughout yesterday to say that in the right words. Apparently, God chose to use you for that. Amen. I also, thought of, Romans 14: 11-12 “For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God”. When that happens it will be too late. There is no longer an opportunity to repent. The sand in the hourglass will run out. He is the potter, we are the clay. A potter can do whatever He wants with the clay. He is totally in control.

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  51. Ed,
    I agree about the cheesy part for most Christian movies. Most are so unrealistic that I don’t know why I bothered to watch the whole thing and don’t watch twice.

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  52. Brenda – re: your comment at 4:31. If you read the letter that I sent to you and Ed, that idea is addressed in it. I can’t be any more specific than that, because JA and I have an ‘agreement’. Above all else, I don’t want to p*ss her off. 🙂
    Hope you have a good day!

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  53. Carmen,
    I read it. I don’t agree with it. The writer is under the delusion that he can make the rules. Praise God, He, the Great I AM, is in control. If he thinks that he can say oops, I was wrong when he stands before God and that will be ok that is a sad mistake. When the book is opened and his name is not in it GOD WILL SAY, “depart from me, I never knew you.” Today is the day of salvation!!

    I hope you have a good day, also. I have prayed for you this morning.

    If the word ‘allah’, or ‘zeus’, was in the pledge of allegiance, would you see why it’s not right for kids to be reciting that?

    Carmen the founders of America would not have done this. Our founders were completely about the One, True, Living God. Any other would have been and is idolatry.

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  54. The Pledge of Allegiance has nothing to do with the Founding Fathers. It was written by Christian socialist and Baptist minister Francis Bellamy in 1892 and published in a magazine for youth commemorating Columbus’s discovery of America. The words “under God” were not added until 1954.

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  55. Marsha,
    Thank you for the history lesson. We studied the rules of how the flag was to be handled, but I was in 5th grade, that was a very long time ago. The words “under God” shouldn’t have been an oversite for that long in the pledge especially being written by a Baptist minister. I would have thought that there would have been some type of pledge created when the flag was made. I suppose Betsy Ross was too busy sewing.

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  56. Brenda, I hear ya about type. I was trying to read a tracking number on a UPS receipt yesterday and had to have my young’en read it to me. Frustrating!

    Bearing good Fruit is no longer fashionable. It has been replaced with “correct doctrine” and the mantra, “sinners, sin”. It is scary.

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  57. It is not just small type that is problematic for me these days. I had to buy an Ott light (it mimics bright sunlight) to cross stitch after I discovered that I had accidentally substituted ecru thread for white in the middle of stitching a white section the night before. I couldn’t see the difference until morning.

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  58. Lydia,

    Bearing good Fruit is no longer fashionable. It has been replaced with “correct doctrine” and the mantra, “sinners, sin”. It is scary.

    I’m not even going to go there and it is scary. Doctrine is a matter of interpretation, the Gospel is where it’s at.

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  59. Good morning Brenda – All

    I hope you’re still interested? I have more about those qualifications for pastor/leaders, bullies, who like to quote Heb 13:17, for themselves. “Obey your leaders, and Submit to them…” and I’m your “leader.”

    Heb 13:17, the way it’s “Used to Abuse,” to “Control and Manipulate,” is a pet peeve. And I love to pet my peeves. 😉

    1 – The First Qualifcation…
    For “Who” qualifies to be Obeyed, Submitted to…
    Is from Heb 13:17. – “for *they* are keeping watch over your souls.”

    If *They,* pastor/leader/reverends, are NOT watching for your soul…
    Are WE, His Sheep, His sons, required to “Obey and Submit” to them?
    NOT anymore – Thank you Jesus… 😉
    ———

    2 – The Second Qualifcation….
    For “Who” qualifies to be Obeyed, Submitted to…
    Became a list of 10 qualifcations for those who claim Heb 13:17.

    ARE these wanna-be pastor/leader/elders “who” teach, demand…
    WE, His Sheep, His Disciples, “Obey and Submit” to them…
    Living Examples of…

    1 – NOT lording it over “God’s heritage?” 1 Pet 5:3 KJV
    2 – Lowliness of mind? Phil 2:3 KJV
    3 – Esteeming others “better” than themselves? Phil 2:3 KJV
    4 – Submitting “One to Another?” Eph 5:21 KJV, 1 Pet 5:5 KJV
    5 – Prefering others before themselves? Rom 12:10 KJV
    6 – By love “Serve one another?” Gal 5:13 KJV
    7 – Laying down their lives for the brethren? 1 John 3:16 KJV
    8 – NOT speaking of themselves, NOT seeking their glory? Jn 7:18 KJV
    9 – NOT “Exercising Authority” like the Gentiles?” Mark 10:42-43. KJV
    10 – Being clothed with humility? 1 Pet 5:5 KJV
    10 – Humility – a modest, or low opinion of ones own importance.

    Are WE, His Sheep, His Bride, required to “Obey and Submit”…
    To a pastor/leader/reverend who does NOT Submit one to another?
    NOT any more – Thank you Jesus… 😉

    Are WE, His Sheep, His sons, required to “Obey and Submit”…
    To a pastor/leader who “Lords it over,” or “Exercises Authority?
    NOT any more – Thank you Jesus… 😉

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  60. Brenda

    3 – The Third Qualifcation…
    For “Who” qualifies to be Obeyed, Submitted to…
    Became a list of 17 qualifcations given by Paul, for apointing elder/overseers.

    If, pastors/elders/overseers, Do NOT meet those tuff qualifcations…
    Are WE, His Ekklesia, His Body, required to “Obey and Submit” to them?
    NOT anymore – Thank you Jesus… 😉

    And – I’ve noticed those are some tuff Qualifications Paul gives… 😉

    Today, I’ve noticed, most congregations looking to hire a pastor/elder/overseer, and most who desire to be a pastor/elder/overseer tend to “Ignore” or “Twist” the Qualifications in 1 Tim 3:1-7, and Titus 1:5-9. And today WE, His Ekklesia, His Church, His Disciples, can experience “many” pastor/elder/overseers who do NOT qualify according to Paul’s qualifications.

    For a bishop (overseer) “must be” *blameless,* as the steward of God…
    1 – Must Be **Blameless** — unrebukeable, without fault.
    2 – husband of one wife — married, male.
    3 – rules well his own house — have an obedient family and children.
    4 – not greedy of filthy lucre — Not greedy for money.
    5 – vigilant — no excessive wine, calm in spirit.
    6 – sober — of a sound mind, self controlled.
    7 – of good behavior — modest, unassuming, reserved.
    8 – no striker — not quarrelsome, contentious.
    9 – not a brawler — abstaining from fighting.
    10 – not self willed — not self pleasing, not arrogant.
    11 – not soon angry — not prone to anger.
    12 – temperate — having power over, restraining.
    13 – **holy — undefiled by sin, free from wickedness.
    14 – **just — righteous, virtuous, innocent, faultless.

    And, The pastor/elder/overseers children must qualify also…
    “having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly”

    15 – faithful — believing, one who trusts in God’s promises.
    16 – not accused of riot — Strongs – asotia — unsavedness.
    ………an abandoned dissolute life, lost to principle.
    17 – unruly — disobedient.

    Hmmm? Know any pastor/elder/overseers who have teenagers?
    That alone seems to dis-qualify a whole bunch… 😉

    If a pastor/overseers children DO NOT Qualify?
    Are WE, His Sheep, His Bride, required to, “Obey and Submit” to them? 😉
    NOT any more – Thank You Jesus… 😉

    Know many elder/overseers who are – “modest, unassuming, reserved?”
    “not quarrelsome, contentious?” “abstaining from fighting?”
    These three certainly disqualified me from being an elder/overseer. 😉

    If a pastor/overseer is NOT “modest, unassuming, reserved?”
    Are WE, His Sheep, His Bride, required to, “Obey and Submit” to them? 😉
    NOT any more – Thank You Jesus… 😉

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  61. Marsha,
    I was always very uncomfortable as a child pledging allegiance to a flag. It felt like idolatry to me.

    I can understand your point. Even though our flag stands for freedom (that is dwendling day by day) and all who died for that freedom, I don’t want to put anything above God. The church I attend just lost several members because the decision was made not to have the flag hanging in the sanctuary. It didn’t bother me that no flag was there. It is a symbol of country, I go there to worship God.

    I have the problem with colors, black and navy especially. I write what color somethings are on the labels of clothing. In the morning I can’t tell the difference, but as the day goes on I can see it and have had some pretty peculiar looking combos before I started marking things. I hope you weren’t too far into your project before you noticed. I can’t hand sew anymore. Tremors keep the needle in my fingers more than in the cloth.

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  62. Brenda

    Here is a closer look at three qualifications for elder/overseer from Titus.
    1 – For a bishop (overseer) “Must Be” *Blameless.* 2 – Just. 3 – Holy.

    Titus 1:5-8 KJV
    5 …ordain elders in every city…
    6 If any be *blameless,* the husband of one wife,
    having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
    7 For a bishop “must be” *blameless,* as the steward of God; not self willed,
    not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
    8 a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, *just,* *holy,* temperate;

    1 – That *must be* is the same Greek word. You *must be* born again. Jn 3:7
    *Must Be* – Strongs #1163, die. – It is necessary (as binding).
    *Must Be* – Thayer’s – necessity established by the counsel and decree of God.
    Seems to be a small word but very important. Yes?

    1 – Blameless
    Strongs #410 anegkletos – unaccused, irreproachable, blameless.
    Blameless, Thayers – cannot be called into account, unreproveable, unaccused.
    Blameless, Dictionary – Without fault, innocent, guiltless, not meriting censure.

    2 – Just
    Strongs #1342 – dikaios {dik’-ah-yos} from 1349;
    Thayers – righteous, observing divine laws, innocent, faultless, guiltless.

    3 – Holy
    Strongs #3741 – hosios {hos’-ee-os}
    Thayers – undefiled by sin, free from wickedness,
    religiously observing every moral obligation.

    Now that’s three tough qualifications for pastor/elder/overseers. Yes?

    Are WE, His Kings and Priests, His Ambassadors, His Kids….
    Required to *Obey and Submit* to someone who does NOT Qualify?
    To a pastor/leader who is NOT… 1 – Blameless? 2 – Just? 3 – Holy?
    NOT any more – Thank You Jesus… 😉

    How many pastor/elder/overseers today, who honestly examine themselves, seriously considering these three qualifications can see themselves as Blameless, Just and Holy, innocent, without fault, above reproach, undefiled by sin, and thus qualify to be a pastor/elder/overseer? And, if they can see themself as *blameless?* Is that pride? And no longer without fault? 😉

    Which Qualifications, are WE, His Sheep, His Ekklesia, allowed to Ignore?
    Which Qualifications are NOT important?

    If WE, His Ekklesia, His Church, His Sheep, His Kings and Priests, His Body…
    Take seriously the many tough Qualifications in 1 Tim 3:1-6, and Titus 1:5-9…

    The number of Biblically Qualified, pastor/elder/overseers, is quite small.
    😉

    I recommend for WE, His Kids, to *Obey and Submit” to…

    The “ONE” Leader – The “ONE” Shepherd…

    {{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}

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    CARMEN, this nation was not founded on the belief of zues, or other gods, or no god at all. It was founded on the belief of the Christian God. Freedom from the bondage of the church of England. Free to worship that God based on our own conscience. See our Declaration of independence. Lets not change the subject to zeus that is not the subject of that declaration.– Original Message –From: comment-reply@wordpress.comSent: 08/06/2014 03:47 amTo: chapmaned24@yahoo.comSubject: [New comment] SSB Sunday Gathering – August 3, 2014 carmen commented: “I’m wondering, Ed. If the word ‘allah’, or ‘zeus’, was in the pledge of allegiance, would you see why it’s not right for kids to be reciting that?
    What you see as a war on christianity, I see as a pushback against christian privilege.”

    Like

  64. Ed, you and Brenda are intentionally missing my point – but I understand. Others reading this thread won’t, however. That’s fine.

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    BRENDA, amen about giving account to God. Typing by phone at work. Be back tonight.– Original Message –From: comment-reply@wordpress.comSent: 08/06/2014 04:31 amTo: chapmaned24@yahoo.comSubject: [New comment] SSB Sunday Gathering – August 3, 2014 Brenda R commented: “Thank you, Ed; You said:

    If I am wrong, I have nothing to lose. If you are wrong…you have a lot to lose. The rules state that there is no apologizing if you are wrong. You have this life to choose. Once you are dead, it’s too late.

    I tried ”

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    MARSHA, not getting what your point is. I salute our flag.– Original Message –From: comment-reply@wordpress.comSent: 08/06/2014 05:39 amTo: chapmaned24@yahoo.comSubject: [New comment] SSB Sunday Gathering – August 3, 2014 Marsha commented: “The Pledge of Allegiance has nothing to do with the Founding Fathers. It was written by Christian socialist and Baptist minister Francis Bellamy in 1892 and published in a magazine for youth commemorating Columbus’s discovery of America. The words “unde”

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  67. Carmen,
    I don’t go out of my way to intentionally miss an individuals point. I get what you were saying, it is just a non issue for me. This country was not founded and dedicated to any idol god. It was with a strong passion to worship the Living God without tyranny that made this country great.

    I have even been known to change my mind about certain issues over time, but I will never renounce my faith in God or devalue the religious freedom in Him this country was founded on. I do not take these things lightly.

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  68. Carmen, Some of the Founders like Adams and Jefferson were big into Locke. They were men of the enligtenment, law as the authority and reason. Many want to paint the enlightenment as anti God. That is really a short sighted understanding. I believe God loves progress and reason. Some went a different route with it but that is understandable coming out of a rigid church state like France.

    They were interested in religious freedom even if the concept not exactly worked out in foundationally. The Continental Congress had Episcopalians, Congregationalist, Quakers and much more. Not long before that the Puritans were burning Quakers at the stake! But the focus was not on whose god was right. Frankly, less than a hundred years before those disparate sects could not have been in a room together.

    They most likely had visions of their ancestors the Puritans and where that led. The last vestiges of the evils of Puritanism were playing out in those days. Many of their descendents in the North East had turned Congregationalist or Unitarian.

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  69. Hi Amos,
    Always interested.

    Are WE, His Sheep, His Bride, required to “Obey and Submit”…
    To a pastor/leader/reverend who does NOT Submit one to another?
    NOT any more – Thank you Jesus… 😉

    I don’t believe we ever were required to submit to such a person, not should they be in leadership. We must be careful that the qualifications of such esteemed positions are met and continue to be met.

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    CARMEN, no i got your point. But since it was not based on my point, i steared it back to my point. I wont budge. Sorry.– Original Message –From: comment-reply@wordpress.comSent: 08/06/2014 09:15 amTo: chapmaned24@yahoo.comSubject: [New comment] SSB Sunday Gathering – August 3, 2014 carmen commented: “Ed, you and Brenda are intentionally missing my point – but I understand. Others reading this thread won’t, however. That’s fine.”

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  71. Amos,
    Know many elder/overseers who are – “modest, unassuming, reserved?”
    “not quarrelsome, contentious?” “abstaining from fighting?”

    These things describe the elders of my church pretty well. There kids are all well behaved or are grown and have their own ministries of one form or another. There is not ever going to be a man, woman or child that is perfect however. The only one that fit that bill died on a cross for my sins. I look at these things as guidelines.

    The whole husband of one wife thing. I don’t think it is manditory for a man to be married to be in leadership. Paul was never married. If a leaders wife dies, would we kick him out of his position. I don’t think so. I think he should not be married to more than one at a time.

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  72. Hi There again, Amos,

    I recommend for WE, His Kids, to *Obey and Submit” to…

    The “ONE” Leader – The “ONE” Shepherd…

    {{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}

    Agree completely. But, I do believe that we can get counsel from GOOD leaders, not the kind that try to make you feel like you’re lower than a snakes belly. I have watched the men who are called elders in my church. They are quiet, helpful, and more than willing to answer questions without accusation.

    Paul and Peter were leaders in the early church. They gave support and guidance to the flock if they were heading in the wrong direction. Thus all of the letters written by Paul to the church. People looked up to them. Were they perfect? Absolutely NOT. I know you know both of their stories upside down and sideways so I won’t waste my keystrokes on that.

    For me, I want to be with other people who believe as I do. Gain strength from them and help those who are in need. I find that in my church. I do not believe that we are to blindly obey and submit to church leadership or anyone else for that matter. The only one that I obey and submit to is Christ. He is the only one deserving of that. If leaders tell me something that sounds the least bit fishy, I open my mouth and start asking questions. If I don’t get the right answers I’ll be a lookin’ for another church.

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  73. It’s ironic that this right-wing conservative paper would be talking about curtailing free speech eh, Lydia? I was taught in university to always look for bias. You know, that ‘thinking for yourself’ business?

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  74. I would not expect to find it reported in a liberal paper, Carmen. Why not check the facts of the piece out. The personalities mentioned and their quotes?

    I was taught a lot of bias at University. I am glad I had parents that taught me to question everything.

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  75. Marsha,

    You had said:
    “The Pledge of Allegiance has nothing to do with the Founding Fathers. It was written by Christian socialist and Baptist minister Francis Bellamy in 1892 and published in a magazine for youth commemorating Columbus’s discovery of America. The words “under God” were not added until 1954.”

    My response:
    What you said has been troubling me all day long. It’s eating at me like you wouldn’t believe. I’ve got smoke coming out of my ears.

    To me, obviously, Francis Bellamy has more patriotism than those who take this country for granted. Besides, I know about when “under God” was added, and it is appropriate. Did you see the video that I posted above? Red Skelton actually said, “since I was a small boy, two states have been added, and two words added, under God. Wouldn’t it be a pity if someone said that was a prayer, and that would be eliminated from schools, too?”

    You see, I am a form United States Navy member. I was for many years. I have been literally around the world, and I have been to many many many countries and I have seen many things throughout the world. THERE IS NO PLACE LIKE HOME.

    I was stationed in Japan on the USS Cochrane DDG-21, USS Nimitz CVN 68, USS Enterprise, and the USS John C Stennis. I was shore duty at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard, and at Bangor Naval Base in Kitsap County.

    And…I was raised to say the Pledge of Allegiance. I have Love of Country in my bones. I think that every American should salute the flag, and say the pledge.

    I have absolutely no idea when, where, why and how anyone would even consider the flag an idol. Where did that kind of thinking come from? Sounds like a Jehovah’s Witness.

    Let me ask something here. Why do we have communion? Jesus said to do this in REMEMBRANCE of him.

    Also,
    Romans 13:7
    Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

    When WE salute the flag, it is to give remembrance and honor to those who fought and died to secure our freedom. How do you get idol out of that?

    We honor God, and we honor those who died for our freedom.

    There was a great country and western song a couple of years ago. It was called “Soldiers and Jesus”. In the lyrics, there are 2 people who have died for me:

    Soldiers and Jesus. Honor and respect and remembrance is what that flag is all about. I pledge my allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

    That means something to me, DEEP in my heart and soul. It may just be a nursery rhyme by some Baptist preacher to some, but that Baptist preacher got it. Some in today’s society just don’t get it. I am fuming that Americans flip their nose at that flag. NO RESPECT. Well, if they don’t like what that flag stands for…why won’t they leave?

    Ed

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  76. I don’t understand why you have been fuming. Isn’t that an accurate account of the origin of the Pledge of Allegiance? Brenda thought it was created by the Founding Fathers so I posted about its history.

    Or are you concerned about my unease as a child? Wasn’t I entitled to my own feelings? I had read in the Bible, which I started reading at a very early age, about worshiping a golden calf and here I had to pledge allegiance to a flag. A thing. I worried about it. Is that a problem for you?

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  77. Ed, Amen. As one veteran to another, I salute you. I still can’t say the pledge or sing the National Anthem without tears.

    Like

  78. Marsha, we don’t idolize the flag and worship it as our deity. They made the golden calf with their own hands and proclaimed that to be their deity, and crediting the calf as the one who led them out of Egypt instead of God.

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  79. Marsha,

    You had said:
    “Or are you concerned about my unease as a child? Wasn’t I entitled to my own feelings? I had read in the Bible, which I started reading at a very early age, about worshiping a golden calf and here I had to pledge allegiance to a flag. A thing. I worried about it. Is that a problem for you?”

    My response:
    Actually, yes, it is a problem for me. I don’t understand how you can equate a golden calf with a flag of the United States of America. Who put that idea in your head?

    But, you mentioned about the “Under God” being inserted. If you would have watched the video that I provided, it clearly said that anyway.

    But, why do I have a problem? Because it sounds to me that no one told you WHY to pledge allegiance to the flag. It doesn’t seem to me that anyone taught you about patriotism, that you SHOULD have a love of country, that you SHOULD have respect for the flag, because it stands for something, because it means something. Veterans from WW1 and WW2 salutes that flag. People are not being taught about respecting the country, because they are not being taught the symbolism of the meaning of the flag. It flabbergasts me. So yes, I have a problem with that.

    Ed

    Like

  80. Waitingforthetrumet2,

    I salute you as well!!!!

    As you know in base movie theaters, before the movie begins, we all have to stand and watch a video of the Star Spangled Banner. Before I got out, the video was of Whitney Houston singing it from the Superbowl. I always cried at her singing it. And I went to the Base movie theater a lot. The Best.

    Ed

    Like

  81. One of the last songs I heard while still in the Air Force was Lee Greenwood’s Proud To Be An American. I choke up everytime.

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  82. Lee Greenwood came on a USO tour to the Philippines when we lived there. This was a time when we were under treat conditions. We had base restrictions and curfew restrictions. I’ve never cried so hard. We all knew the price of freedom because 10 servicemen had been killed in the Philippines by communist insurgents during our tour. I lose it when I hear Proud to be an American and it takes me back to that moment.

    Ed, nobody can sing that like Whitney. We’ve been having Whitney wannabes ever since.

    Like

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