* * *
Romans 2:19-24
if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself?
You who preach against stealing, do you steal?
You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery?
You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?
As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
* * *
As details of the Doug Phillips story have been unfolding, an increasing number of people coming forward to share what they know, what they’ve experienced. This is to be expected. Many people have been silenced, perhaps in fear, and have been waiting for an opportunity to come forward.
Even though they may not have been involved personally, they are still affected because they were or are part of the community. They feel betrayed by a leader who taught and professed one message, but behaved immorally and reprehensibly behind their backs. He acted as a fraud and this is shocking, especially taking into account that Phillips pretended to be a godly leader.
As more people share, others will likely follow suit. I want to highlight a few comments that came in on an earlier post — they clarify what the word apostasy in this post’s title means. Then I’ll follow up with some important words to consider about how we can show support to survivors of Doug Phillips’ actions. That really is the key thing for us as a survivor community to focus on now, but those thoughts will make more sense after piecing together some information about Doug Phillips and the extent to which he lived contrary to the message he preached.
* * *
T.W. Eston NOVEMBER 13, 2013 @ 9:57 AM (Note JA added paragraphs for easier reading.)
Julie Anne,You seemed to appreciate the last time I cross-post one of my comments that I first posted at Doug Wilson’s blog. I do so again for the same reason — to ensure that if it gets deleted from there I at least have some confidence that you will not do so yourself. Thanks for your consideration.
_____________________________
Shannon, I’ll assume that you include me in “Some of these comments are ridiculous.” I can see that you’re having trouble connecting the dots. Let me help you with that in a way that, hopefully, will serve to encourage you not to be so dismissive of the seriousness of these matters.
Scott Brown, the man from whose sermon I quoted above, the sermon that was crafted especially for, and targeted at, Doug Phillips, is one of Doug Phillips’ closest friends and confidants and has been for a number of years. Scott Brown is also one of the three Board members of Vision Forum Ministries. He’s an insider, a man who knows far more the extent of Doug Phillips’ sins (and likely crimes) than do you, or Doug Wilson. He has good cause to vote, along with the other Board Members, to dissolve Vision Forum Ministries.The Board of Vision Forum Ministries would not have taken such an extreme measure had Phillips only been guilty of the sin of cheating on his wife. Boards of lucrative and financially viable ministries don’t ever dissolve over relatively minor scandals like this one. If that were all that had been all that had been going on the board would be more than competent to handle the damage control and move forward with someone else at the helm, at least until such time as Phillips went through the necessary steps of restoration. It’s been done successfully before.
The real scandals (and likely crimes) of Douglas W. Phillips are much more damning than an “inappropriately affectionate” relationship. The extreme measure of dissolving Vision Forum Ministries is commensurate with the egregious sins of Doug Phillips that made it necessary. Scott Brown also has good cause to direct an entire sermon at Doug Phillips and to speak of him as an “apostate.” Because of Scott Brown’s knowledge, and the knowledge of the other VFM board members, all of whom were close personal friends of Doug Phillips for some years, they acted swiftly to put an end to the most important venue through which Doug Phillips perpetrates his apostasy. Scott Brown isn’t charging Phillips with apostasy as it concerns moral beliefs and teachings. He and Phillips are on the same exact doctrinal page — home schooling, patriarchy, family integrated church, stay at home daughters, quiver full, etc. Just read his statement at http://www.visionforumministries.org/home/about/the_board_of_vision_forum_mini.aspx.
When Scott Brown speaks of Doug Phillips’ apostasy he’s addressing Phillips’ sinful behavior which is diametrically opposed to the messages that Phillips preaches, one of which would be “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” But that’s only one of the ways in which Doug Phillips has become, over the period of at least ten years, apostate. There is much more long term sin in Phillips’ life than just the sin of years of adultery, and those are sins that Phillips has never repented of and likely never will. Scott Brown is now aware of some of those apostasies and over coming days and weeks will become aware of even more. We’re talking heinous sin, even criminal acts, far worse than just cheating on his wife.
As Brown points out in his sermon these sins aren’t one time events of having “fallen into sin” (your mention, Shannon, of David would be an example of “falling into sin” — Solomon would not be such an example, but it would be a good example of what Brown calls “sliding into sin”). Brown is addressing sins that Phillips “slid” into and remained in willfully and unrepentantly over years and years. He slid down the slippery slope because he was drawn in by his own pride and lust — he was enticed by sin (as we all can be), but rather than hating it he toyed with it over and over, he drew closer and closer, and once he outright acted on it he justified it rather than repent of it. Doug Phillips still hasn’t repented because repentance must be robust and thoroughgoing, as does the confessing that goes along with it. Doug Phillips’ so-called “confession” is the confession of the crafty attorney that he is. He conceals far more than he discloses. The “smell of apostasy” indeed.
Most commenters here, including Doug Wilson, seem more than eager to trust in the sincerity of the so-called confession and repentance of an apostate. But that trust will evaporate in time as more and more of Doug Phillips’ sins and crimes become widely known. I agree with Doug Wilson that it’s wrong to be gleeful over the downfall of a religious leader, though I disagree that the gleeful are by their actions necessarily “enemies of God”. I tend to agree far more with Scott Brown that Doug Phillips is apostate, and that he needs to come to repentance.
I don’t rejoice that he had to step down nine months ago as the teaching elder of the church he founded, that he’s had to resign from his ministry, and that that [sic] ministry is being dissolved. It’s all very tragic, no doubt even more so for those who had put so much of their trust in the man. I pray for Doug Phillips’ repentance because, unlike so many others here, I don’t assume an apostate is repentant merely because he says he is. I’m still waiting to see some evidence consistent with repentance. “Bear fruit in keeping with repentance” (Matt 3:8). Such fruit goes far beyond a lawyerly “confession”.
****
Julie Anne NOVEMBER 13, 2013 @ 11:54 AM
T.W. Eston:
Feel free to continue cross-posting your comments. You obviously have a good understanding of the people involved, their ties with each other, and the culture. Your comments have been excellent and need to be seen. This is the perfect place for them
One question for you: You said that he had to step down as teaching elder and also from his ministry. Are you saying he was forced to, or he voluntarily did so out of his own sense of remorse? That is one piece of the puzzle that has not been made clear.
Frankly, if this is the case – that he has been forced to step down – I think the Board of Vision Forum Ministries should have made that clear in their public response.
*****
The affair was with a younger woman (girl) in her teenage years who was very involved with the ministries of both VF and the church. She also helped greatly with the family’s children as a nanny for many years.
This affair has gone on at least 10 years – although she is of age now, she was not when the affair began.
Sorry to reveal so much, I believe this to be true, and the truth sets people free.
* * *
Nikki,
Do you know this woman? (please do not name her) Is she in a safe place? Does she need help? If she needs help, please let us know. I am sure that we can spread the word and get some real help. Please feel free to contact me privately spiritualsb@ gmail.com
Edited to add: If this was a sexual abuse situation, do you know if it has been reported to authorities?
* * *
My head is spinning. I had heard this “affair” was going on for 6 years (unverified) and that was bad enough. *If* it is true that it has been going on for 10 years, this should be a loud and clanging wake-up call to the Christian community who has long supported Phillips. They need to understand the level of secrecy and control that has been going on in the Phillips Empire for a long, long time.
You have confirmed what I have heard many places about the woman being a nanny.
To have a facade of purity and modesty, godly families, godly fathers, stay-at-home daughters who dote and serve not only fathers, but men outside their home . . . .and then beneath that veneer, violate an innocent, unsuspecting young lady is at the height of cruelty and abuse. We must be enraged at this abuse. We cannot allow this type of abuse where men can take possession of women. I am seething.
Thanks Julie Anne for your courtesies.
I can assure you that Doug Phillips would have never ever resigned voluntarily from the church or the ministry that he founded, regardless of the sin. He was forced out in both cases. In all likelihood it was all handled much like a “plea bargain” is when someone is criminally charged: plead guilty to a lesser charge in exchange for a lighter sentence. Doug’s public “confession” and resignation would have been a condition of that plea deal. Whether or not the winding down of VFM was something Doug knew was coming or not is subject to speculation, but my guess is he did know of it. Otherwise the odds of a nasty lawsuit would be almost 100%.
When a board of directors fires its president they need to do so in a way that minimizes the risks of litigation, even more so when we’re speaking of firing a president who is an attorney. Scott Brown and his fellow board members are no ignoramuses and they must have some very serious dirt on Doug to have acted as boldly as they have and not be worried about getting sued.
Not getting sued by the president a board fires necessitates allowing the president to save face. Therefore, boards seldom fire their presidents. They ask them to resign, i.e. tender their resignation. If anyone asks either the board or the former president they’ll say he resigned. But the fact is a forced resignation is the same as being fired.
* * *
Nikki Ecala NOVEMBER 13, 2013 @ 2:13 PM
Please pray for this young lady, her family and the Phillips family. This woman went unmarried all through her 20′s to be there for DP’s every need and whim. When she finally realized she could no longer continue the affair, due to God’s conviction and disgust with the hypocrisy, she made it clear she would expose him if he didn’t confess.
I believe this will slowly be revealed in public. I’m so disappointed with this ministry and the people who have used and abused my family that I don’t care if the truth hurts them anymore. They all needed a massive wakeup call and this ministry, as an entirety, needs to repent.
The lavish home that he lives in is owned by VFM. It’s just a matter of time before it’s sold. It doesn’t appear to be listed yet though, so maybe Doug is negotiating terms to buy it himself. No doubt he can easily afford to pay cash for it.
*****
Ok, that was a lot of information to absorb. As I said earlier, when you get one account after another and they all sound alike, at some point you have to wonder how much truth is in them. The only discrepancy I have seen is whether the affair lasted 6 years versus 10 years — and that really should not make much of a difference — even a one-week affair was too long.
I want to be very sensitive here. Somewhere out there is a young lady who has had her life turned upside down because of this man. Scott made this excellent comment and I want his words to stand for Spiritual Sounding Board: Our thoughts and energies should be on survivors — doing whatever it takes to help them recover.
* * *
* * *
Scott, I will absolutely let people know if there is a way we can help. Thank you for showing compassion and love where it needs to be focused, on the true victim, the woman.
Since this person has not been identified, I can only surmise by what we know of this group, that women in this environment, regardless of their age, do not have a voice, PERIOD. A woman would not be able to tell a man NO. Even if she says it was mutual consent, I still wouldn’t buy it. Why?? Because Phillips is (was) a man in authority: authority at church, authority in ministry, authority in business, authority at home. She (if she came from Phillips’ church or ministry community) would have been subordinate and so any relationship with a subordinate would have wrong on his part. Not only that, if she happened to have been raised in this environment, regardless of her age, she is most likely emotionally repressed. If women in this environment have no voice, they have spent a lifetime of denying their feelings/desires/wishes.
* *
* * *
One last thing — although this woman may now be at the age of majority, there is a possibility that she could have been a minor when the beginnings of this “affair” occurred. Regardless of her age, as mentioned above in the comment, she was not in a position to say “no,” and because of that, she is a victim.
I strongly urge anyone who may know her identity to please protect her. If she herself decides to discloses her identity, that’s one thing, but she should not have to see her name on the internet publicly connected with this because someone else disclosed it without permission.
Also, this woman needs to be shown the real love of Christ. What she has experienced in Patriarchy was a complete fraud. Please pray for her and all connected with her. Pray that she will have people wrapping their arms around her.
Brad (“futuristguy”) Sargent wrote the following helpful support guidelines, inspired by Isaac Asimov’s classic sci-fi Three Laws of Robotics, which provided the framework for how to protect human life in emergency situations. Something to consider in the current urgent situation especially, to be of help to the survivors of Doug Phillips’ sick system and personal victimization.
Three Aspects of Support for Promoting Survivor Recovery
1. Believe the victim, so they may come to know they can become a survivor.
2. Do nothing that will harm the survivor, either through our actions (for instance, unauthorized disclosure of someone’s name and status as a victim of abuse) — or inactions (for instance, failure to report suspected abuse or other related crimes when that is mandatory).
3. Sacrifice of ourselves to provide relational, financial, and therapeutic support — for survivors themselves and for those who directly depend on them.
Related articles:
- Vision Forum Ministries Shut Down Due To ‘Serious Sins’ of Former President Doug Phillips (huffingtonpost.com)
- The Board of Vision Forum Ministries Announces the Closing of Vision Forum Ministries (spiritualsoundingboard.com)
- Doug Phillips: His Power and Control Using “Godly” Patriarchy (spiritualsoundingboard.com)
- Doug Philips Resigns from Office of President at Vision Forum, Discontinues Speaking Engagements (spiritualsoundingboard.com)
- Doug Phillips: Question about Pastoral Position, Timeline of Events, and Understanding True Repentance (spiritualsoundingboard.com)
- Vision Forum shuts down after patriarchy proponent’s ‘serious sins’ (religionnews.com)
- Christian homeschooling leader Doug Phillips resigns amid extramarital relationship but keeps his business (religionnews.com)
- An Infidelity Scandal Just Shuttered A Major ‘Biblical Patriarchy’ Organization (theatlanticwire.com)
Spiritual Sounding Board 
I’ve been praying for her. I hope she gets the help she needs.
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The good news is that a lot of the castles of certitude are poised to crumble. The bad news is that a lot of innocent people will be crushed under the collapsing walls.
This is the time when Christians can either shine or fade.
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So it was a “Commander’s Handmaid Ofdoug” situation.
Bet Douggie wishes he was FLDS, that would have made things SO much easier.
Makes me wonder if said plea bargain was a quiet way to get Douggie off the scene before the spotlight started shining on the rest of the Ministry(TM). As in suspicion of Cover-up; sacrifice the scapegoat in public, it’s all him, not us, it was Sexual (Juicy Juicy Juicy), nothing to see here, everyone move along (and Tithe, Tithe, Tithe…)
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“Makes me wonder if said plea bargain was a quiet way to get Douggie off the scene before the spotlight started shining on the rest of the Ministry(TM). As in suspicion of Cover-up; sacrifice the scapegoat in public, it’s all him, not us, it was Sexual (Juicy Juicy Juicy), nothing to see here, everyone move along (and Tithe, Tithe, Tithe…)”
Yep. The Board of Directors are in full damage-control mode. There’s no telling what’s going on behind the scenes to keep this under wraps. The institution ALWAYS comes before the well-being of the people.
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I have two emotions as I read this. First, sadness for the woman involved, who IMHO cannot be blamed because the patriarchy taught by Doug Phillips and his friends puts women in mental infancy. My hope is that she can see her way clear to a more balanced view of Christian life. (And I say this as someone who has left the church, I don’t want her to leave her beliefs!)
The other emotion I have is revulsion. Stark revulsion to the point of wanting to throw up over what Phillips is said to have done. If it is true (and I am still withholding some judgment on this, because we don’t have all the facts in evidence), it’s just the latest, but largest, exhibit to show how destructive patriarchy is. It doesn’t matter if it’s Reformed Christian patriarchy or FLDS patriarchy, it’s still abusive power over people to the point of slavery.
I wish the woman healing from all the crazy that was inflicted on your life, and for Doug Phillips, I want you to come clean on what you have been doing. Why? Because you’ve affected a lot of families and they need to see for sure that the way they are raising their sons and daughters is disastrous.
I may be outside the church now, but the fact is, Jesus didn’t live and die for patriarchy. Jesus said, “I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” (John 10:10) That didn’t mean, “Make half the human race slaves to the other half,” which is what patriarchy does.
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when I heard about the affair, this is what I figured was going on since there was so much “hush, hush” about it.
So sad for the victims (including Doug’s family) but for the girl this is tragic.
I am so sickened by the so-called “Christianity” of these men, and yet they turn around and blame the ones beneath them- calling out gossip and defamation!
Christ will not stand by and let His people perish- we see the true nature of these men who call themselves “men of God”. This is the start of the battle now.
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Southwestern Discomfort,
I completely agree with your comment. In the Patriarchy system, girls are raised to serve men even over God. Their husbands and fathers attempt to own their faith. In many of these homes, they don’t have permission to say no, to question, to have differing opinions. They are taught to put their own desires, dreams, opinions, emotions beneath those of their fathers or even other men.
Because of this, if they get out, it may take some time for them to even find out who they are, what they like, because thinking for themselves may be foreign to them.
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The worst part for me is that the women have to serve ‘the man’. They are brought up to do so, no questions asked. But when ‘the man’ is caught, they blame the woman. That is just pure evil. I wonder if he blackmailed her into this affair. “You will obey or be shunned, open to judgement/dsicipline, etc if you don’t let me do whatever I want to/with you”.
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That seems to be what Wilson is implying in his article – that and testosterone. How about say that the man chose to use his position of authority and coerce a young lady who was subordinate to him.
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I have so many friends still caught up in this and each with so many children, especially daughters affected. Currently one has a daughter in a religious “treatment facility,” known for all sorts of horrible things, because at 15 she stopped conforming to all things Vision Forum. This family has a large number of children and they are followers of Vision Forum as was my family. Another has three daughters, two of whom are 18 or over and refused to teach them anything past long division in math. These girls just sit around at home doing house work. I am sick over all this and glad we got our family out but so many are still in bondage. Praying!!
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“How about say that the man chose to use his position of authority and coerce a young lady who was subordinate to him.”
THAT is how I believe this whole relationship was likely initiated. Now that it’s come out, however, there may, indeed, be some blackmailing to keep her quiet.
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Hendersonfamily4,
My heart breaks for you and all of the women in this system. (And even some of the men! My own husband does not have a high school equivalent education!) It’s time to speak up. Thank you for sharing your experience.
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Speculating that she was underage does not help the credibility of those who are speaking out about this situation. She was not underage.
I’m sorry this comment is so short, but I wanted to urge caution in what we are saying. We don’t need to bring more hurt to this situation than there already is. 🙂
Gotta run!
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Thanks, Hensersonfamily4, for sharing your experience. I think this woman who somehow was able to say “ENOUGH!!” may be a hero. She may be responsible for many families taking a serious look at what they have been practicing and once and for all denounce it as extra-biblical and man-made.
That is my prayer.
Those of you who have been in this environment have an open invitation to tell your story. SSB is a place where you are free to share your story (send to spiritualsb@gmail.com) You will be safe and supported here. And the most wonderful thing about sharing is that you are likely sharing something that many others will connect with.
Sometimes it is in reading these stories that people get a wake-up call and can begin their process of healing. That is how I got my wake-up call.
[ADDITION: Some questions have come up about what exactly it would mean to have your story shared anonymously here on Spiritual Sounding Board, and what process we use to do that. Thanks for your interest — I’ll get some details posted about that shortly, and either put them here, in a separate post or page, or both.]
UPDATE NOVEMBER 14, 2013 – 7:50 PM – ABOUT SHARING YOUR STORY ANONYMOUSLY
When spiritual abuse survivors contact us with their stories, our prime directive is to believe them! That said, when someone entrusts us with their accounts of what happened, what they learned, how they are moving forward, etc., we want to act responsibly with what you’ve shared. We’re glad we’ve earned your trust to be able to share your story to help all our readers, and we need to maintain their trust as well.
So, part of our responsibility to you and to them is to discern whether this is an appropriate time to share your story publicly. We’ve found there are times when the story being shared with us was mostly meant to benefit the person who shared it to get it out of their system and be believed. There are times when taking that public isn’t in the person’s best interests. We don’t have a formula for this, but we are prayerful and discerning to determine if the person is still spiritually fragile and doesn’t need the pressure of public exposure of their story.
Also, sometimes we need to wait while we verify details that might be confidential or otherwise expose people who are not public figures and who haven’t authorized disclosure. We might need to edit details that are inappropriate for public consumption. We might need to correspond with you a while to clarify information and make sure we understand what you’ve shared.
All that to say, no one’s story gets used automatically, or just cut-and-pasted into a post and then published. But that gives an idea of the relational and discernment processes we typically go through with you, to work it out together. That’s part of our process to keep Spiritual Sounding Board a safe place for spiritual abuse survivors and others to read and reflect, find a constructive community, and be transformed.
This information is also now posted on a separate page, About Sharing Your Story Anonymously . Please contact me (spiritualsb@gmail.com) if you have questions or are interested in possibly sharing your story with Spiritual Sounding Board readers. Thank you!
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Also for those who are not aware Doug has issues a statement of clarification on his resignation in which he admits there was a physical component involved in his indiscretion and the woman was unmarried. http://www.visionforumministries.org/issues/news_and_reports/clarification_on_resignation.aspx
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Thanks for the kind words!!
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I get the feeling that Phillips was probably forced to “clarify” his sin, since the story is leaking out. Gotta love this, though, “The local church, not the Internet, is the proper forum for overseeing the details of a man’s repentance,”
It’s what Dr. Lifton called “Milieu Control – restrict what communication modes are allowed.”
http://futuristguy.wordpress.com/2012/05/16/the-hunger-games-trilogy-5a/
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“Serve” as in “Service”?
That’s what Honor Killings are for. Al’lah’u Akbar.
Sure these MenoGawd are Christian? Sounds like they’re not all that far from Salafi/Talibani Islam. Are they Calvinist? Both Calvin & Mohammed were into the Omnipotent Will of God and Predestination, and fanboys always take the original and run with it to the extremes.
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Note the indirect language at work. “There was a physical component…” Physical? As in a physical Organ in a physical Orifice? And issued as a Clarification after the initial announcement broke.
“(long Roman name): Have you slept with my daughter?”
“Not slept, Caesar…”
“Oh? Perhaps you did it standing up? Or on a couch, not a bed?”
— BBC miniseries version of “I, Claudius”
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“Once you have been Assimilated into the Church of the Borg, it takes a long time to come back. Just ask Seven of Nine.” — “The Church of Borg”, essay from a now-defunct blog
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Headless Unicorn Guy — There are more parallels between fundamentalist Christianity and fundamentalist Islam than either group would like to admit.
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“Please pray for the Phillips family, the Board, and the men who have made up the staff of Vision Forum Ministries. ” – words from DP’s clarification.
Still no ” please pray for the woman I was involved with” !
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I followed the link to the Vision Forum Ministries site for Doug Phillips’ “Clarification on Resignation.”
http://www.visionforumministries.org/issues/news_and_reports/clarification_on_resignation.aspx
I appreciate the detail there. His original resignation was too vague, especially coming from one who is trained as a lawyer, a profession which requires close attention to details. The original statement seemed to me to contain the seeds of plausible deniability.
It is therefore understandable that Mr. Phillips’ own words spawned a significant amount of recent internet speculation about the actual seriousness of his offense(s); and the appropriateness of severity in the resignation/dissolution, given his lack of clarity about the offense(s). I believe it was necessary to know at least the amount of official detail that has now been posted in order to quell that aspect of the controversies that Mr. Phillips caused.
Still, I would take some exception to this portion of his clarification statement:
“[…] The local church, not the Internet, is the proper forum for overseeing the details of a man’s repentance, but I just want to be clear for the sake of peace within the Body of Christ, that the tragic events we are experiencing, including the closing of Vision Forum Ministries are my fault, and that I am sincere that I should not be in leadership, but must spend this season of my life quietly walking a path of proven repentance. …”
My discernment radar went off upon reading that. It has me wondering if there is a hidden agenda here.
First, since his affair self-admittedly occurred over a number of years, Mr. Phillips’ current local church may NOT in truth be the best place for overseeing him in a period of repentance. Since his underlying attitudes and his overt or covert action escaped the notice of local church leaders and congregants for such a period of time (otherwise, would he not have confessed and been dealt with years ago?), how then will members of that local body overcome their own blind spots to those well-worn patterns of Mr. Phillips’ avoidance? There must be some sickness in the system, not just in his sins. I’m not sure all that seemingly needs to be addressed for the health of the church itself plus Mr. Phillips can happen at the same time.
Second, repentance and rehabilitation are not the same as restoration to ministry. While this may indeed be a season “to spend … quietly walking a path of proven repentance,” any consideration of potential restoration to public ministry in the Body of Christ does indeed draw in far more than the Phillips’ family and their local church. If Mr. Phillips is ever even possibly to hold a role of public ministry again, I would contend that the rehabilitation process must clearly be biblical, relevant, sufficient, *and public enough* to overcome his current DISqualification from service in a public arena. And that could indeed draw in internet oversight of him. Shouldn’t those who would be in public roles of service accept public forms of accountability by those they suggest they are serving? In the digital era of immediate access, the internet IS one such tool.
Truthfully, however, given the years of Mr. Phillips’ sinful actions and apparent simultaneous deceitful avoidance of oversight and accountability, I have significant doubts as to the possibility of his being established in the future as a man worthy of trust from the Body of Christ, nor in the public eye of politics or society as a healthy representative of Christianity.
And while that may seem harsh, actually, I don’t believe so. No one is owed a position of public ministry or influence; sometimes it cannot be re-earned once trust is as shattered as he seems to have done in this situation. Isn’t the dissolution of the non-profit he started substantial evidence of the severity of the situation? I do wish Mr. Phillips well on his pathway ahead, and I also truly hope that he isn’t considering how a path of repentance leads to automatic restoration. To me, that would show that a rehabilitation period needs to be far longer than imagined.
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This whole story has been so unsettling. I was once “that woman,” after I reported a powerful religious leader for sexual misconduct, and I know exactly how terrified and isolated she must feel. Doug Phillips abused his power to exploit her trust and steal her innocence. Now, the whole world is reading his “sincere” letters of repentance and gathering around him and his family, as my offender’s supporters gathered around him. But who is supporting her? Who is gathering around her?
I hope she is reading your blog. If she is, then she’ll know she isn’t abandoned. The community of survivors (of spiritual abuse, of clergy sexual abuse) is huge, though mostly hidden. It’s likely that thousands of us have been following this story and holding her and her family up in prayer. Thanks, Julie Anne, for affirming and supporting her so powerfully on this blog.
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“The local church, not the Internet, is the proper forum for overseeing the details of a man’s repentance,”
You mean that same group who was in oversight with Doug during the “lengthy” relationship? The group that removed him (or he resigned) 9 months before he stepped down from his public appearances? That group? The group that is still promoting false teachings?
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“Once you have been Assimilated into the Church of the Borg, it takes a long time to come back. Just ask Seven of Nine.” — “The Church of Borg”, essay from a now-defunct blog
Yes, these are horrible “Borg org” systems. They are hard to get out of & leave scars. I think it’s so difficult to leave because these orgs claim Godly, biblical authority. And what God-fearing person wants to go against God or the Bible? This is big-time control over lives.
The faithful & willing are asked to serve God, but don’t realize they are sacrificing their lives to the leaders. In reality they are servicing the leaders, not God. Servicing leaders will not usually have “a physical component” (what a Doug Phillips word dance!), but there will usually be personal sacrifice to the org. The ability & freedom to say “NO” for yourself & family (& the ability to walk away from a church while still maintaining faith in Jesus) is ALWAYS okay & an uncondemnable option in healthy churches. Jesus didn’t establish buildings, empires, govts with financial donations. That’s not His directive to us either. When Jesus ascended into heaven, He said the Holy Spirit would reside in the hearts of believers. The body of the believer is the building of God. That’s awesome! 🙂
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I don’t believe that “clarification” was only meant to silence the wider blog community from discussing these events. You can just bet that the people of BCA and VFM are being given the same instructions. It’s a no talk rule. “Let the local church handle it.”
The very people who need support have possibly been issued a gag order.
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yes but it can’t be too much of a “gag” order because many many details are leaking out and spreading.
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Phillips seems unable, like Bill Clinton, to say, I had sex with that woman.
I always knew there was more to the story. You don’t resign, close your ministry, and make two public statements over an emotional affair or a bit of handholding.
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Headless Unicorn Guy — Thanks!
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It’s difficult to look past the honorific with which Doug Phillips titles himself and believe that he’s offering up genuine repentance. Repentance comes from a humble heart, not pomposity.
Doug Phillips has been called out many times before over his use of “Esq.”, and that’s been prior to his being embroiled in a scandal. But even now with the cloud of this scandal hanging over him he’s still sending this pompous message. To use Esq. in the context of his Statement Of Resignation, and now a second time in his Clarification On Repentance, is as stupid a thing to do as I can think of.
Doug Phillips is a history buff and is probably aware of the English aristocratic origins of the title of nobility “Esquire.” It sends a message loud and clear: I am superior to you, the common folk. Pay homage to me. Oh, and don’t anyone forget I’m an attorney and will sue you if you say anything bad about me.
Doug Phillips does in fact fancy himself a superior class. The prancing about in 18th century aristocratic costumes and posting pictures of his manly dress up exploits on his blog only reinforces the message of the superiority that he wreaks of.
I have never seen any attorney bandy about Esq. the way Doug Phillips does. In fact it’s rare that attorneys use it at all. It’s pompous, prideful and pretentious. Judges are commonly referred to in court as “Your honor,” but not because it’s required. One can just as easily show respect for the office by saying, “Yes, judge” or “Yes sir” (or mam). Certainly one would never see “Esq.” or “His Honor” on a judge’s business card, letterhead or blogpost.
The emperor has no clothes. Time to bag the title of nobility, Doug. It’s not working anymore.
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“I have never seen any attorney bandy about Esq. the way Doug Phillips does. In fact it’s rare that attorneys use it at all. It’s pompous, prideful and pretentious.”
That it may be. And/or a “friendly” reminder of his “authority” in a court of law.
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NO S**T, HE REALLY DOES COSPLAY AS AN 18TH CENTURY ARISTO AND UPLOADS THE SELFIES ON HIS BLOG???????
P.S. Prolific Conspiracy Lunatic Francis E Dec also always titled himself “Esq”. (He was a disbarred lawyer, but he always gave his name in all his kook rants as “Francis E Dec, ESQ”.)
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This subject was brought up recently on another thread and the attorneys in the conversation were saying the same thing, T.W. Esq. is not used and it’s quite ridiculous for him to use it. But I guess Phillips is . . .special.
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The only people I have seen use it are known to be pompous donkey rears.
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Yeah, calling yourself “Esq.” or “Dr.” when you’ve got your J.D. is bad form, except maybe for a celebratory facebook post when you graduate, because when other than graduation are you expected to puff your self up like that?
And yep, @Headless Unicorn Guy, he really does cosplay in various old timey garb. When they did the anniversary of Normandy, he dressed up like he was storming the beaches. Pics of him in various period costume are all over his blog. He especially seems to like cosplay that makes him look rugged and manly.
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I know others have said things along the same lines, but one thing that seems to me to be missing from DP’s statement of resignation and its clarification is any acknowledgment of a need to make things right to the (apparently young) woman he dishonored. He speaks of his concern for his family, friends, ministry, board, staff and so on. But where is there any expression of concern for, or even acknowledgment of, the depths of devastation he no doubt inflicted upon the woman he must certainly have deemed to have been under his authority?
Does he not recognize that his very act of speaking so publicly must be working great emotional distress, and maybe even soul shattering trauma, to his victim? He seemingly seeks to absolve himself by his heroic, take-it-like-a-man (“see how brave and forthright I am?”) confession and profession of supposed repentance. But it is all as though his victim is a non-person, even a non-entity. It is as though she may be discarded as easily as some shiny sports car he might hypothetically have been obsessively and sinfully coveting.
All of these failings, I submit, are the natural and expected outcome of “Biblical” patriarchy (or any other ideology that elevates men to a position of authority over women). The fruit of “Biblical” patriarchy is bad indeed.
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ABOUT SHARING YOUR STORY ANONYMOUSLY …
As promised earlier in this thread, here is more about the process we use re: the possibility of publishing your story here on SSB anonymously (or with a pseudonym).
When spiritual abuse survivors contact us with their stories, our prime directive is to believe them! That said, when someone entrusts us with their accounts of what happened, what they learned, how they are moving forward, etc., we want to act responsibly with what you’ve shared. We’re glad we’ve earned your trust to be able to share your story to help all our readers, and we need to maintain their trust as well.
So, part of our responsibility to you and to them is to discern whether this is an appropriate time to share your story publicly. We’ve found there are times when the story being shared with us was mostly meant to benefit the person who shared it to get it out of their system and be believed. There are times when taking that public isn’t in the person’s best interests. We don’t have a formula for this, but we are prayerful and discerning to determine if the person is still spiritually fragile and doesn’t need the pressure of public exposure of their story.
Also, sometimes we need to wait while we verify details that might be confidential or otherwise expose people who are not public figures and who haven’t authorized disclosure. We might need to edit details that are inappropriate for public consumption. We might need to correspond with you a while to clarify information and make sure we understand what you’ve shared.
All that to say, no one’s story gets used automatically, or just cut-and-pasted into a post and then published. But that gives an idea of the relational and discernment processes we typically go through with you, to work it out together. That’s part of our process to keep Spiritual Sounding Board a safe place for spiritual abuse survivors and others to read and reflect, find a constructive community, and be transformed.
This information is also now posted on a separate page, About Sharing Your Story Anonymously. Please contact me (spiritualsb@gmail.com) if you have questions or are interested in possibly sharing your story with Spiritual Sounding Board readers. Thank you!
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“Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea.
Mark 9:42 nasb
Those who teach children blind obedience, and girls quiet submission to authority without equipping them to discern and disobey when the authority is wrong … Every one of those teachers should not be surprised when God holds them accountable when the children stumble when they get older.
And God cannot be put off with half apologies, secrecy, “accountability” to an inner circle, and maneuvers to avoid liability. I pray that every person who laid a patriarchal stumbling block in the path of children and young women will truly repent. Whether God withholds the millstone if they do is His business.
The courage it takes for a woman who grew up in that system to do what is right and stand up to power she was taught bever to speak back to…. That courage is so great, it can only come from God.
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Vision Forum Ministries is sending out the following “Go Away And Leave Us Alone” e-mail if you send them any comment via their website:
” Thank you for your inquiry and interest in Vision Forum Ministries (VFM).
In light of regrettable developments, the Board of Directors for Vision Forum Ministries has determined that it is the best course of action to discontinue the operations of VFM. For this reason, we are no longer responding to inquiries received at this address. VFM’s Board of Directors believes as strongly as ever in the message of the ministry to the Christian family and pray that it will prosper in other forms as God blesses it.
For more information about the closure of Vision Forum Ministries, visit:www.visionforum.org.
Cordially in Christ,
Vision Forum Customer Service”
I should note that I got this e-mail when I sent them a note asking when Doug Phillips was going to apologize to the woman involved.
Way to go, Vision Forum Ministries. First of all, you put forward teachings that make it well-nigh impossible for a woman to question what a man is telling her. Then when your founder is found to have fooled around, you throw the woman under the bus (by failing to apologize to her and her family). Finally, you’re trying to say, “Oh, our system still works” even as Doug Phillips’ actions affect at minimum two families, to say nothing of the families who followed Phillips’ teachings. Your responsibility (NOT) for the fallout the actions of your principal have precipitated speaks volumes, Vision Forum Ministries.
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I find it mind boggling that we are being told that the local church, not the Internet, is the place to handle a man’s repentance. These parachurch ministries and gurus use all media available to promote themselves and their causes. Then, when one crashes and burns morally, suddenly they run to the local church to hide. If the “local church” was so important, why did Doug spend almost 2 decades building a ministry outside of it? These men welcome any and all non-local church promotion of themselves…until they are exposed as frauds. Then suddenly they are devout believers in the “local church.” It’s ludicrous. You can’t have it both ways, boys.
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“Speculating that she was underage does not help the credibility of those who are speaking out about this situation. She was not underage.
I’m sorry this comment is so short, but I wanted to urge caution in what we are saying. We don’t need to bring more hurt to this situation than there already is”
Jen,
I am finding your drive by very confusing. Not sure we should be worried about your credibility. Some of the speculation could have come from reading your site and piggybacking on YOUR speculations concerning the “nanny” and knowing in that world, the nanny helper can start quite young learning the mommy functions to prepare her for life. Speculating is the natural outcome when a very public personality has done the very things he has not only spent his career preaching against but made a nice living off the same message. Defining “manliness” for us.
In fact, let me ‘speculate” even more. Since this news broke, I started to remember much of the Doug internet stuff not only concerning your story but the gang up by Matt Chauncey and others. The articles at Ministry watchman. Etc. As I looked back, I remembered that I had thought then that Doug’s brand of patriarchy seemed to be masking something else. The whole dress up thing, the drama, theatrical bent to being a “man”, the over appeals you did not find in other patriarchal groups….it was OTT. Like begging us to see him as a “man”.. We already know what guys like Scott Brown and Voddie Baucham think of women. We know what Doug really thinks of the female gender.
Now, fast forward about 7 years. I am having a hard time believing these guys closed VFM down over adultery with a woman of age. I don’t doubt the adultery but I am more likely to call it emotional rape because of the spiritual abuse. She was most likely trained to follow men instead of Christ.
So what is the ONE THING these guys could never explain away and would warrant it being shut down? Think like a patriarch. It would not be sex with a woman. That they could deal with. But it could be sex with a man. That would send them all running to the hills. How is that for speculating? (wink)
Add to that I think there are some financial shenanigans these guys want to distance themselves from. But if anyone thinks Scott Brown cares about young women, they are not familiar with his cult.
Now, you can really nail me for “speculating”. When it comes to Phillips’ I could care less about MY or your credibility. They don’t have that much control over me. I could care less what those creeps and thugs think.
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Ingrid,
The “local church” has become code speak for the refuge of scoundrals. I am seeing this taught everywhere. Not just in the weird fringe patriarchal movement but in the seeker and YRR reformed worlds as well.
My response is if they sought to market themselves OUTSIDE their “local church” in any way shape or form, they are fair game and they need to man up.
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If there was a “local church” in New Testament times, the term is not used in the ESV, the translation/interpretation I find it handiest to use. The word “local” itself does appear once in the ESV, at Acts 28:17, but the translators cum interpreters simply inserted this English word where there is no corresponding Greek word.
If there was anything to which we could apply the term “local church” in New Testament times, it was simply the group of believers who happened to be in contact with each other in a given community. The “local church” did not have its own separate existence, as an organized entity, in the sense that the term “local church” is used today.
Today, Christians are privileged to have instantaneous contact with each other by means of the Internet. To the extent the concept of “local church” has any legitimacy, it exists wherever Christians are able to fellowship, including in cyberspace.
Doug Phillips and other advocates of patriarchy have done great damage to individuals and families everywhere. I am personally acquainted with some of these individuals and families. These advocates of an oppressive and un-Scriptural ideological agenda have propagated their destructive heresy by public means which include the Internet. I, as a member of that “local church” that meets on the Internet, will play my part, on the Internet, to hold these false teachers accountable — even if all I can do is to help expose them.
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Southwestern Discomfort,
Thanks for letting us know about the response you received from VF.
I haven’t collected my thoughts for more of a response.
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Is anyone aware of a way we can financially help the young woman involved in this affair? I don’t want to know her name or anything about her, but would like to help out. God has placed her on my heart so strongly and I feel such a burden for her – we would even open up our home to her if necessary.
As far as speculation is concerned, a number of us have wondered for the last few years how soon it would be before Doug Phillips and the other patriocentrists would embrace some form of Christian polygamy (somewhat like the FLDS). When I first heard of the resignation, the first thing that popped into my mind was that Phillips had taken another “wife”, and someone outside of the inner circle had found out.
I don’t care one fig what these people think of me or my viewpoints – they have hurt my family enough, and they can’t hurt us anymore.
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@Sue:
Joseph Smith DID justify Plural Marriage(TM) with the example of the Old Testament Patriarchs…
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@SW Discomfort:
In fluent Christianese instead of English.
That’s because Honor Killings will have to wait until our Quiverfull Culture Warriors have Taken Back America and Established a Truly Godly(TM) Society.
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Gary W: I suspect Phillips’ announcement and “clarification” make no mention of the woman because Phillips believes she “defrauded” him (or, if you hew to Doug Wilson’s view, she “Delilah-ed” him) and is, therefore, not among the injured parties in this situation. Such is the blinkered thinking of the ardent patriarchalist.
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Cobber2076, welcome!
” if you hew to Doug Wilson’s view, she “Delilah-ed” him)”
Gotta love that new verb!
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Even if she did, it blows the whole patriarchal thing out of the water. If man is supposed to be the be-end all and that powerful….doesn’t say much when you get Delilah’ed. If you are that weak, especially over a period of years, maybe you shouldn’t be leading anything.
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Gary W: This may be OT, but I like your views on the “local church.” It makes perfect sense, and since the Bible don’t spell out what I should see as “local church”, the most sensible view is the one I’d adhere to.
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@kbrightbill:
One of my writing partners had an uncle who was at Omaha Beach. And another at Anzio. And one or two others at places like Saipan and Okinawa.
If he’s cosplaying any of those, he’d BETTER be with an actual Re-Enactor Group. Otherwise, if his cosplay uniforms include such things as Jump Wings or Special Forces Berets, steer him into some Veteran who won those wings the hard way. Honor of the Regiment demands the REAL Paratrooper/SEAL/Green Beret shove those fake awards down the poser’s throat. HARD.
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Ingrid & Lydiasellerofpurple — In a recent “Generations with Vision” show on the Vision Forum scandal, Kevin Swanson championed local churches over parachurch organizations. Given that Swanson COLLABORATED with Vision Forum for some time, his words were very ironic.
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“Kevin Swanson championed local churches over parachurch organizations. Given that Swanson COLLABORATED with Vision Forum for some time, his words were very ironic.”
Not just ironic, but hypocritical. I had to google “parachurch” to understand what they’re talking about. Wikipedia says: “Parachurch organizations are Christian faith-based organizations that work outside of and across denominations to engage in social welfare and evangelism, usually independent of church oversight.”
Interesting. By that definition Vision Forum qualifies as a parachurch organization. It was likely “independent of church oversight.” Now that Phillips has been forced to resign and shutter Vision Forum, he hides behind the “local church” like a toddler hiding behind mommy’s skirt. Too funny. And of course Swanson wants to drop that hot parachurch potato as fast as he can, and hide behind the “local church’s” skirt as well. Manhood, anyone?
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Retha,
Perhaps one reason so much is made of the “local church” is that we are conditioned to be submitted to organizations and institutions, whether governments, schools, the military, teams, clubs or whatever. We are conditioned to believe that organizations wield authority. Therefore, we tend to accept, without thinking about it, that “local churches” wield authority over our lives. Men claiming places of spiritual leadership can play on this conditioning to manipulate compliance with their agendas. It is likely that the perpetrators of this manipulation often do not even know what they are doing. The thinking is just that ingrained in us.
Whether Doug Phillips’ appeal to the authority of the “local church” is a conscious attempt to play on our habitual submission to organizations I do not know. What I do perceive is that it is in fact an attempt to manipulate.
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I know Scott Brown. I have been in his home, his church and was a friend to his daughter Kelly. He caused his own church to split because he was above the accountability of the people who loved him and who sought to uphold God’s Word. He is as power-posturing as Phillips and though he might say all the right things, he is a hypocrite. He is an ungodly man, portraying an image for the sake of the false doctrines of patriarchy. Perhaps he is speaking out against Phillips to distance himself? Regardless of his motivations, he has no credibility among those who have been abused and manipulated by his own pride and ungodly actions. Scott Brown should not be given a voice until he repents of his own sins against the body of Christ and acknowledges his own lack of godly leadership.
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@Joyelle:
AKA He exalted his own throne above that of the Most High?
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In the Dilbert Zone, this is called “CYA”.
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There will be more “resignations” like this, as there are many high profile leaders who are fleecing their flocks in the name of God. The Scripture if very clear: “…be sure your sin will find you out.” (Numbers 32:23, NKJV).
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@Joyelle – I was there a part of the church split…the NCFIC is as dangerous if not more so than VF. It is empowering a Doug Phillips wannabe in a church near you and needs to be taken down…
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From the Vision Forum Blog
http://www.visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/default.aspx?path=/2013/11/10958/
A Note from Doug Phillips
Last week, I announced my resignation from the presidency of Vision Forum Ministries, a 501(c)3 organization. I retain ownership of Vision Forum, Inc., a distinct and private company, but consistent with my desires to lead a quiet life focusing on my family and serving as a foot soldier, I will not be giving speeches or running conferences at this time of my life under the banner of VFI or VFM. In addition, Doug’s Blog will become the Vision Forum Blog and will be focused on publishing reports and articles by others, along with news and information from Vision Forum, Inc.
Posted by Doug Phillips on November 6, 2013
Yet another note:
Vision Forum Inc. is visionforum.com
Vision Forum Ministries is visionforumministries.org
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I have read most of blogs written about the Doug Phillips sex scandal but I haven’t read how all of this originally came out of secrecy, it would seem at least, last February if not before then and it took a while for DP to step down from church last February. Does anyone know who the whistle blower was?
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The thing that really saddens me about all this mess is the thought that this young woman may be about to be victimized again by the horrific theology of VFM. According to the Purity Movement, she has given herself to someone who could never have been her husband. Nevermind that she was manipulated by an authority figure and lacked all autonomy to protect herself: every man in that community has been conditioned to reject such women outright as damaged goods. It’s the perfect setup for egomaniacs like Doug and his ilk; no one ever has to exercise real understanding, humility, or forgiveness in relationships. I will be praying for her.
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April – – that is such a good point. It is horrific to think that he is all about Purity and then helped to make her as “damaged good” in that community.
But we in the rest of the Christian world know that there is no such thing as “damaged goods” when it comes to Christ and His redeeming work. THAT is the message that this young lady needs to hear. I pray she hears it.
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Me too!
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This is all making me more saddened and sickened by the day. It all hits too close to home for me, and the complete lack of care or compassion for the true victim is heartbreaking. I see no real repentance as yet, and I am convinced that we do not yet know the true extent of his sins. They are many and great. The whole mindset is so destructive, and seems set up to encourage and fall to sins of exactly this kind. Power corrupts, and when you set up a man with all his human faults to be lifted up, exalted and even worshiped as the ultimate authority in his world, he is almost inevitably headed for this kind of fall. Power and pride is a toxic combination. So tragic for everyone involved, not least the trail of destruction in the families that accepted him as an authority and subscribed to his teachings.
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One question for “Jen” if you come back to this site:
Are you “Jen” from “Jen’s Gems”?
First of all, I read all your blogs and appreciate all you share and agree with so much of your sentiments, however I don’t know how you can state with such certainty the “young lady” (who both you are I have known well for a number of years) was not underage when this affair BEGAN.
I whole-heartedly disagree, but if you can, prove me wrong.
Over 10 years ago she was a shining starlet to DP, the Boerne church and VF, this is a fact. [NOTE: JA removed content here that would have been searchable to reveal the identity of alleged victim.}
Jen, with all do respect, I think you are mistaken to assume all this began when she was “of age” however the fact of the matter is DP, VF and all of us who have ever been involved with VF need to come clean and stop deceiving multitudes who DESERVE to know the truth!
Not only did DP NOT apologize to this precious young woman who lived her life to serve God and obey her “authorities” but he did not apologize to the HUNDREDS of young children who looked up to him in the congregation, and VF, or to those who are now devastated by the loss of income over the now necessary collapse of this ministry due to his selfishness.
Jen, kindly continue the dialog if you are willing (if not, I understand and respect that) but please don’t post hit and run comments, which bear questionable accuracy, as this is something DP would do. More cover ups and “drive-bys” are EXACTLY what we are trying to avoid right now. Conceal the identity of the woman, yes, I agree, but conceal horrors of what happened, I don’t.
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Mod note: Please be careful about posting information that could be searchable on the internet and could possibly identify the young woman involved in the Doug Phillips scandal. I do not care if she was a minor or a legal adult, I view her to be a victim and the public does not need to have access to her name. Let’s give her the dignity and respect she deserves, please.
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Nikki, I’ll confirm that the Jen who posted above is the blog owner of Jen’s Gems. I happen to agree with your assessment and have challenged Jen on the same issue. Her view on this particular issue is based, in part, on the fact that the young lady and Jen’s daughter were very close, and that closeness at the time gives them a better perspective. Perhaps it does. However, sometimes our closeness can also cloud our objectivity, especially where we think we’re protecting our friends, or even former friends. In doing so maybe we’re not really protecting them at all.
I’ve asked Julie Anne to give me your email address so that I can dialogue with you further on this. Julie Anne is hyper-vigilant about privacy (no doubt motivated by having been sued by her pastor), just another reason to appreciate her. So at her suggestion I’m asking you to email her and give permission for her to give me your email address. Either that you can request my email address from her. We need to talk. I will ensure your confidentiality, and Julie Anne will, no doubt, vouch for that.
Note to J.A. Feel free to edit this comment, deleting the second paragraph, after we’ve exchanged emails.
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Okay, I am open to the private dialog…and I genuinely apologize for writing anything that could possibly lead to the victim’s name, that was not at all my intention. I primarily wanted to point out to Jen there are reasons to believe this started when the young lady was still a minor.
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Julie Anne, what is your email again please?
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Nikki,
I continue to pray for you. It takes a lot of courage to speak up when your world is crumbling.
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Nikki, no worries. I knew exactly what you were doing and why. I also appreciate your efforts to see the truth exposed if she really was a minor as you say. That is very important because then it changes the case to an alleged crime.
My email is spiritualsb@ gmail.com
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Hello, please message VERY IMPORTANT for GOD’S PEOPLE!
I am witness! great tribulation is almost here! the spiritual plagues coming into all churches on earth!
All churches on earth are spiritually apostate! They are following another jesus Revelation 17:8! the true body of Christ not in church buildings or behind the pulpit!
Hear my testimony on video just google,”Christ testimony of the churches around the world”!
God is calling his people out of the man made churches and their teachings on earth.
the outpouring of God’s Spirit happens just before great tribulation Joel 2:28-30;Acts 2:16-20; Revelation 7:1-3, 13-14, Daniel 12:7,10.
I am witness to seeing the beast ascended out of the bottomless pit. The beast is in perdition even as you read this message. This perdition is 3.5 years Dan 7:25; Rev 12:6,14,17; Rev 13:5-6; Rev 17:8.
I am witness thru the power and anointing of the Holy Spirit of truth in seeing image of beast, his mark, and the number of his name in the people of churches on earth Revelation 15:2-3.
The mark of beast comes from the churches Rev 16:14; Rev 13:6,7-8,16-18; Rev 18:23;1 John 2:15-17; Isaiah 9:6kjv vs. Isaiah 9:5Torah.
The mark of the beast is spiritual. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places Eph 6:12;Matt 10:28.
How does the devil deceive the whole world? Revelation 13:8
thru image of man- Rom 1:23, 25; Isaiah 14:13-14; Rev 13:18; Mark 8:33; 2 Thess 2:4; Matt 24:15; Rev 17:8; Rev 6:15;Rev 19:20.
thru churches on earth -Isaiah 14:17; Dan 7:21,25; Dan 8:12-13; Dan 11:22,31-32, ; Dan 11:39,45; Matt 24:23-26; Luke 4:5-6; Luke 17:20-23;Mark 11:17; Mark 13:1-2, 5-6; Matt 13:30.
thru their teachings- 1 thess 5:3,Dan 9:26; Dan 11:22, 31-32;1Tim 4:1; 1Tim 1:6-10; 2Tim 2:16; 2Tim 4:3-4; Titus 1:10-11; Matt 15: 5-6; Matt 16:11; 2 Peter 2:2-3, 18-19; 1 John 4:5;Jude 1: 12,16;1 Cor 2:13; Dan 12:4; 2Tim 3:7.
thru signs and lying wonders- Matt 7:22; Matt 24:24; 2 Thess 2:9-10;Acts 16:17; Rev 16:14; Rev 18:23; 2 Cor 11:13-15;Daniel 8:12.
God seals his people in their homes Joel2:28-29; Acts 1:13-14; Isaiah 26:20-21;Ezekiel 9:3-4.
In book of Daniel fourth kingdom will devour the whole earth Dan 7:23; Joel 2:3; Isaiah 14:17.
This fourth kingdom and her beast is the mother church in Rome called,” Mystery Babylon the Great the Mother of Harlots Abominations of the earth” Rev10:7; Rev17:5. This mother church spiritually connected to ALL churches great or small of Catholics, Christians, Mormons, Jehovah witnesses. this mother church in Rome spiritually connected Babylon, the Great City, which is spiritually called, “Sodom and Egypt” 2 Thess 2:7; Rev 11:8; Rev 17:9,15,18. This spiritual city is about to receive her hour of judgement Rev 17:1-2; Rev 11:13.
All churches around the world have same roots as mother church in Rome- pulpit /raised platform, image of man/host (idols), congregation, church buildings between the seas, communion wafer/juice, choir, instruments, celebrate winter/spring holiday-(Rev 11:10; Dan 8:12), weddings, birthdays, funerals, candles, and many more Revelation 18:22-23.
Man made church buildings are spiritual cages of the god of this world Isaiah 14:13,17; Rev 18:2; Matt 24:24-26!
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God comes not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. For as the lightning, that lights out of the one part under heaven, shines unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
Rev 18:4, And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues!
Seek God in prayer and ask for the truth! this will save you and your family members. I did for two years asking God for the truth about the churches, her leaders and followers and about myself. Hear my testimony on video just google, “Christ testimony of the churches around the world”.
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I wonder why he needed a nanny anyhow – why not do like the Duggars and have your older children raise the younger, if he’s of that mindset.
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Even in his confession, he requested prayers for himself, his family, the board, and *men* of VFM. Nowhere does he requests prayers for his victim or her family. Ugh.
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Very good point, well put, HJ!
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As horrible as these circumstances are, perhaps one good thing has emerged. This Vision Forum has reached its demise.
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It is a discusting sin for both of them, not just Doug. The girls he was having the affair with knew he was married- knew what she was doing was a sin. She is just as much in the wrong as he is.
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Would someone please respond to DJ so I don’t have to.? I might say something not very nice.
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DJ, you have no idea how this whole clan works. Years ago I had a friend who was slowly deceived into the cult of the Moonies. Her parents (who were not part of it) did a very brave thing. They snatched her. They took her to a nice resort and had a deprogrammer help her to think on her own again. It was NOT an easy task. It was YEARS before she could read her bible again without cringing at the misinterpretation ringing in her mind. this is not a simple matter with the VF Boerne group.
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I should add…it was three intense days just getting her to say ANYTHING that was her own simple thought.
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“It is a discusting sin for both of them, not just DouIt is a discusting sin for both of them, not just Doug. The girls he was having the affair with knew he was married- knew what she was doing was a sin. She is just as much in the wrong as he is.”
No she’s not.
1. She’s not the married one so she’s not guilty of adultery, and
2. He’s the cult leader and she is the brainwashed victim of the cult leader, and
3. It started when she was a minor, therefore he is guilty of statutory rape
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What Ri Ri said.
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I think that point 2. needs some more explanation for someone like AB Lever. We need to tell what messages this girl/ woman would have heard since childhood that would make her susceptible.
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Sorry, AB Lever! My eye looked wrong. Replace AB’s name in my previous entry with DJ, and it would be what I wanted to say.
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@ Everyone Thanks so much for your comments here. I have been reading them and its helpful in pulling this all together. My family and I left a NCIFC church just last year in wake forest and I can testify it was very difficult. Even to the point my husband was almost titled a wolf.(Long story) I am thankful that the Lord opened our eyes, and had given us friends that have left that shared the true gospel with us. IT IS BY GRACE WE ARE SAVED NOT THE LAW!!! I want to also add that I have been thinking about a excommunication that happened while my family and I were in attendance this man was found to be acting inappropriately with a lady that was apart of a ministry he had founded. During the excommunication meeting they made all of the information known to the entire church every detail from the beginning when it had been revealed up to the excommunication meeting. It was said by one of the elders there ( and I am paraphrasing) That he had to be shamed on the scale because of the level of prominence he had within the local body and the surrounding body ( i.e he was traveling and teaching on family intergrated services). Whats so ironic one of the elders of this church that carried out this communication is also on the board of VF. Why does Mr Phillips thinks he deserves any less exposure after all he was teaching to the world. I love the families at our old church wonderful people. I pray all the time for God to reveal truth to them.
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@colette, wake forest ncfic is very close to the heart of the beast…good for you for getting out.
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Welcome Colette! I’m so glad you were able to get out. It sounds like you were in a very scary place. Have you had any repercussions after leaving? Many times people have more difficulty after they leave (i.e., shunning). I hope not.
Very good point. Isn’t it interesting how they have really tried to keep this situation quiet? Maybe they would say the exposure needs to be done in church, not outside the church. I tend to disagree because Phillips had a very public ministry and was probably far more influential in his public ministry than back home. I also heard that he did not attend his own church very often because of his travels, so all the more reason for this to be exposed more publicly.
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“I love the families at our old church wonderful people. I pray all the time for God to reveal truth to them.”
I would expect for every single member to vote with their feet right now and just walk out. Why on earth would anyone stay at this point?
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Being very well know in these circles, giving any information would lead to my identity so I can’t say much. What I will say after having left, there is pain on top of pain on top of pain. Shunning isn’t the word for it. There have been times I would have welcomed a smack in the face, something to show me I was lovable in this world, something to show me I was cared for by another human being. No, nothing…..nothing. I’m still healing, I have a long way to go. DP and this scandal has opened wounds hardly healed in my heart, exposing the fact that though I am out, in my mind and heart I am not out all the way.
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