How has this election affected you as a Christian?

265 thoughts on “How has this election affected you as a Christian?”

1. I have been quietly analyzing the election (how I tend to deal with politics in general), and I have come to some conclusions that are important for me as a Christian:
   Phil. 3:20 Although the election is important and it affects me as a U.S. citizen (who has been voting regularly since the age of 18), my ultimate residence is in heaven, and I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of my Savior to take me home.
   Rom. 13:1-5 I must submit to the governing authorities, established by God (even if I don’t agree with them).
   Acts 5:29 When civil law and God’s law clash, I must obey God’s law first. This makes me think of Daniel in the lions den because he chose prayer over idolatry. Scripture has many other examples. I also must be ready to receive the consequences of civil disobedience if I truly believe the powers that be are in conflict with God’s commands.
   1 Tim. 2:1-2 commands me to pray for all those in authority (including someone/something I might not have voted for).
   I do believe that if believers got around to loving God and loving their neighbor in the way Scripture asks, we might have a much bigger, eternal influence on our society and the world than anything we could ever do politically. These are just my thoughts after going round and round with God in my prayer times these last few days. My hope is that I will truly live by them.

   (I posted this on FB this morning after reading so many posts of pain/surprise/anger/self-satisfaction because my guy won. They’re my own thoughts, and I humbly submit them to SSB.

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2. I do believe that if believers got around to loving God and loving their neighbor in the way Scripture asks, we might have a much bigger, eternal influence on our society and the world than anything we could ever do politically.

   I agree 100%.

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3. This has been the most contentious situation I have seen in years. What saddens me the most and has me pondering Christianity in a different light is that now I understand why people still are following Mark Driscoll and C.J. Mahaney. This is the first election where my vote is about voting against someone. In my situation I learned why rape and sexual assault is an issue in the United States military. So when I saw Trump boasting about grabbing people I was enraged. Then when I saw rape victims, and sexual abuse survivors on Facebook and more being vocal about supporting someone like Trump I was baffled. Does anyone else find it troubling to see people from Mars Hill, Acts 29 and Sovereign Grace support someone like Trump and be vocal about it? I am looking at Mark Driscoll’s comments about a pussified nation in a very different light. Is evangelical Christianity now a crude and corrupt faith system?

   I am actually having discussion with some atheists being the scenes at my blog. And it saddens me that the secular camp seems to be more concerned about sexual violence than Christians. It has me wondering if in the course of time if I am going to push back from Christianity and do so for ethics and integrity reasons. I cannot believe what I am seeing. Plus you also have other issues such as the myth of a Christian nation, and the fact that many Christians have forgotten that Paul didn’t seek out Rome to change the political system. I wrote about some of this stuff last night because of my deep frustration.

   Sorry for saying this but I am just disgusted. I cannot put into words how I feel.

   https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2016/11/10/the-united-states-is-not-a-christian-nation-lets-address-this-false-claim-plus-bill-maher-on-evangelical-christians-and-hypocrisy/

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4. I have had a hard time with some Christians who tend to confuse faith with cultural and political issues. Several years ago, a woman in my Bible Study was sincerely confused that some of the other members voted for Obama. She could not grasp the idea that that a “real” Christian could support a politician that did not adhere to “conservative values”. (However you define them).
   I do believe that God loves His creation. We are also members of a very privileged country. No, my candidate did not win. However, we can not let fear lead us to despondency or hatred. Ultimately, God has called us to love Him as well as others. If we can serve in our own small corner of the world as the hands and feet of God, we can make a difference no matter who holds political power.

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5. Great point, Ann. I have become increasingly annoyed with the idea perpetuated that Right Wing = Christian and liberal means non-Christian.

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6. I am a white, above 50 Christian but feel at odds with many or most in my population group. Often I disagree politically. I think white evangelicals can be an angry group and a group that has lacked in reaching out to those of different races and cultures. It is sometimes a fairly bigoted population.

   Being Republican (or Democrat) is not a hill to die on.

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7. Thanks for offering this venue. I’ve been hesitant to say much since the election because the division is so deep at this point between the two sides. I’ve been through a lot of elections and been unhappy with the results of a good many of them, but I’ve never felt troubled for the future the way I do today.

   I, personally, feel betrayed as a woman and it hurts deeply. And, I am frightened. I am fearful there will be unrest and chaos. I fear that antisocial elements in our society are emboldened. David Duke was on Twitter bragging about his part in getting Trump elected. I don’t think people understand that you cannot just cut half the population off without creating massive resentment and unrest. We’ll all pay the price for this. How is this going to affect our country on the international scene? We are part of a tenuous balance that affords relative peace; will it hold? Given Trump’s past record in business dealings, what kind of people will he appoint in all the areas of government and what will he do when he feels slighted by any of them? Will we see a lot of turnover and change? Those people who voted on specific issues, like abortion, why do you feel he will have loyalty to your issue? What if he appoints a judge who is prolife but a terrible judge in other respects? What will happen to our economy? He speaks of cutting taxes on one hand and of projects that require massive spending on the other. What is going to happen with our medical care? The system is a complete mess right now, will it end up in total chaos? Will we get the care we need, meanwhile?

   I understand that Hillary was not the ideal candidate, I had a hard time with her as well, but in reaction to that, our country has elected a con-man, a reality tv “star” with a track record of dishonesty, self-interest, greed and abuse, who has never even held a public office, with the expectation he is going to be trustworthy in office and will somehow work miracles. Common sense has me feeling apprehensive. We are all going to be guinea pigs for the next 4 years.

   I understand the anger that he tapped into and I understand why things he promised resonated with people, yes, there are a lot of good reasons people (including myself) are frustrated with developments in our country over the last years. But, I have anxiety. I hope my feelings don’t upset anyone, I am being honest about my misgivings. I hope I turn out to be worrying about nothing and everything works out fine.

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8. Just to add, yes, my ultimate trust is in God. But I also desire to “live a peaceable and quiet life” and would much prefer that to troubles and tribulations.

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9. Julie Anne-

   When all the stuff came out about Mark Driscoll and the “pussified nation” a couple of years back I looked at Driscoll as being a crude, coarse and an exception. Now in light of this past week I am wondering if Mark Driscoll is the way forward, has been validated, and if that is going to be the norm? One of the big winners as I see in all this is Mark Driscoll and his crude theology.

   I can’t believe I am writing this but its something that I am deeply wondering about. Can you take a stab at that?

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10. Yeah, I think the previous election was the triumph of the nanny state, and this election seems to be the triumph of cultivating fear and hatred.

    I’m more and more convinced that Christianity is designed to be a grassroots religion. Our society will not become more moral through laws passed to discourage or encourage good citizenship. Instead, the opposite has happened. That’s because of the “Religious Right” mentality – that somehow Christians using political power to effect change is a shortcut to holiness. Instead, the very tools Christians brought in with great rejoicing (like public accommodation laws and activist judges) are now being used against the Christian worldview.

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11. Linn, I think you said the same thing. Loving our neighbor is the Spiritual tool of societal change!

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12. But on Facebook, I have seen people lose friendships because of this kind of heated debating. It’s very sad.

    It is sad. I think what bothers me the most are the “christians” who “like” bible verses and other biblical stuff, then turn around and belittle the very people they said they wouldn’t gloat over. I can’t think of a single expression of love from these people on FB. Their christianity is just a veneer.

    @Ann

    I have had a hard time with some Christians who tend to confuse faith with cultural and political issues.

    Same. Neither party is inherently christian. I think christians can find issues on either side to support. But I scratch my head at posts saying that God answered their fasting and prayers to give them Trump. Because Jesus is totally behind sexual assault and nude pictures? Would God have endorsed either of the main candidates? I don’t believe He would.

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13. Oh, Dave, nothing can validate Driscoll. He remains a false teacher and a pervert par excellence on every level you can imagine; he’ll never be a winner. Don’t worry about that.
    And that those who call themselves “pastors,” such as MacArthur, Grudem, and the like (I shudder) had the nerve and self-given “authority” to tell/sway people whom to vote for was as sick as the potty-mouthed, sexual deviant Driscoll. Then again, I did not expect anything else from ’em. They’re all rotten eggs in the same basket.

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14. I think the outcome of this election speaks more to the fact that neither Clinton nor Trump was a welcome choice. I’ve spent the past 18 months just marvelling at how low our political choices have sunk. No outcome was going to be a good outcome, given the candidates. Well, now it’s Trump. Barf. I would’ve probably felt the same about Hillary. Let’s hope we can all survive the next 4 years.

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15. Boy I have a lot to say here.
    But I am not going too, as I might regret an intemperate remark.
    I did find a good representation of my feelings from Christian blogger John Pavlovitz:
    http://johnpavlovitz.com/2016/11/09/heres-why-we-grieve-today/

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16. The thing that annoyed me the most in all of the election madness was the e-mail from the DNC that was saying that the media should legitimize the most whacked-out candidates – specifically Cruz, Trump and Carson – and portray them as representing the Republican demographic, so that Clinton could walk away with the election.

    I think what that actually did was make racism, xenophobia and misogyny okay views to hold, and that is what is so disgusting about this election. The fallout seems to be that all the people with these horrible views now feel that they represent America’s values and are free to inflict those views on others.

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17. One thing that got me upset was people settling on a candidate, but refusing to acknowledge their bad issues – almost acting like they didn’t exist. For example, I know people who were staunchly pro-Trump and they came to the decision to vote for him not because of his behavior, but because he’s a Republican and they like the Republican platform. Yet they failed to mention anything negative about him: his comments re: racial minorities, disabled, women, the sexual assault tapes; yet when those subjects were brought up, they were dismissed, minimized, etc.

    The same thing happened with Hillary – they minimized how damaging Bill Clinton was towards women, her response to Benghazi, and other issues that have shadowed her.

    To me, it seems much more honest to say, “I’m going to vote for Trump because of the Republican platform, but I don’t condone the words he uses towards minorities, women, etc.” Or . . . “I’m going to vote for Hillary because she stands for more of the things I support, but I’m still bothered by unanswered questions about Benghazi, etc.”

    In the case of Trump, if you don’t acknowledge his misogyny and sexist behavior, it can have a chilling effect on survivors. And I guess you could say the same thing about Hillary. I don’t recall her addressing her husband’s sexual exploits in a way that could make survivors feel “safe.”

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18. I’ve been thanking God profusely that I’m nowhere near the USA 😂

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19. I had to get off of Facebook, the Trump supporters among my friends posting such rude comments, it hurts my soul. Yes, these are “Christians.” They do not see how they sound to others, or don’t care. This election has divided the country so deeply.

    Let’s not forget we now have a First Lady who has nude photos and sex tapes on the internet. I guess that’s all fine with the comps.

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20. Why would being a Christian matter? I dont get this thinking at all. I am not voting for a pastor in chief. I would love to vote for a Constitutionalist in Chief. But that is so old fashioned.

    My vote was about direction we are going economically and such. The outcome was a little over half repudiated an entrenched establishment elite on both sides of the aisle, the media, the crony wall Street vultures and pundits. And it is a start to send a message about elitism and using public service career ladder to sell personal access in order to get stinking rich off taxpayers you are supposed bro work FOR. We are turning into a Banana Republic by Exec Orders and paying a billion to rogue regimes. This cannot be the normal. We either have a governing process and rule of law or not..

    I have seen way too many hard working people slip into lower class from job loss, lose their homes and such. 100 million Americans of working age are unemployed. We had to try something drastic.

    One does not have to like a candidate to vote on “direction”. I don’t think it is unchristian to want better for your family and the opportunities to provide it instead of being regulated into oblivion. Why would any American think it normal to be required to prove to the IRS you have health insurance? That blows my mind and only telks me how well the Orwellian state has worked . The elite want us to hate ourselves so we look to them for answers while like rich pastors they live well off taxpayers and ate exempt from laws they mandate for us

    People talk about character but seem to forget one candidate knew about a predator since 2011 and did not report besides enabling and protecting another predator for political gain. That is not feminism in my book.

    Maybe protesting democracy in the streets is considered Christian these days. There comes a time one gets sick and tired of being called unfair names just because they disagree with policies/direction. But that has been the normal for too long in order to divide people into groups who think a like and claim hate on each side. It’s like watching Orwellian drama in reality.

    The establishment elite remind me of so many pastors who want to censor and divide people so they have power. You are a gossip/racist, slanderer/homophobe, rebellious/nativist.. It’s the same tactics to shut down debate/ideas they don’t want to get a hearing. They want people defending themselves against unfair characterizations. That is how it works now.

    The message was sent with a bombastic jerk. So be it. And we can try again in 4 years if he blows it.

    So, if there were democracy in the 1st Century would a Christian vote for Caligula or Nero if those are the only two choices. I would vote for the guy who would be least likely to burn down my city. :o)

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21. Lydia – when I referenced Christian in the title, I was referring to how evangelical Christian leaders have behaved in the election and their influence over “commoners.”

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22. One key issue I had to emotionally contend with was Trump’s misogynist comments and especially the crude words that were released about how he gloated about sexually pursuing married women, kissing them or “grabbing their pussy,” without consent. Although I have never experienced something like that, many women have, and it dawned on me that every time these sexual abuse survivors looked at Trump, those tapes of his words could play in their minds and cause emotional harm as they relive their own sexually abusive experience.

    The same could also be said about looking at Hillary Clinton. I think some sexual abuse survivors could look at her and how it was reported that she treated her husband’s sexual abuse survivors. Survivors could also have difficulty knowing that Bill Clinton was once again in the white house (not as president, this time). So, either candidate could bring back unwanted memories to the forefront for the next four years. In both cases, women were devalued and used for men’s sexual gratification.

    You hit the nail on the head. My visceral reaction to Trump was worse than Clinton, though, and it always got on my nerves when people brought up “Bill” as an “answer” to saying anything negative about their golden hope. I guess, for me, it came down to the fact that I didn’t see anyone coming out of the woodwork to say that Hillary sexually assaulted anyone, herself, not even that she set up unsuspecting women for her husband to prey upon (as some complicit wives might do, sad as it is). I don’t know how she might have enabled Bill’s behavior, but it was the actual words out of Trump’s mouth that sickened me.
    I might have had some respect for the man if, when that “locker room talk” recording came out, he had acted like he was horrified by his earlier behavior, that he had learned that women are people, too, not objects, and that he denounced such an attitude nowadays, no matter who expressed it. But no. He excused it. He dismissed it as “locker room talk” as if that made everything okay, just so long as it stays behind closed doors where poor, stupid, overreacting “broads” can’t hear it and get their little panties in a twist. He projected the attitude that women are only good for one thing: eye candy and copping the occasional feel (or more, if you can get away with it). Ugly women? Fat women? Women over a certain age? Well, they’re not good for anything. Obviously.

    I have zero respect for the man. When he comes on the television, I switch channels or switch it off. I don’t want to hear anything he has to say.

    But then, he wouldn’t care two figs about my opinion anyhow, or even acknowledge that I might have a brain or a right to have an opinion. After all, I don’t fit any of the items on his checklist for a woman.

    I might as well choose not to exist, and good riddance, in his expressed view. As a matter of fact, my existing might even be an annoyance to him. I had better stay out of his sight, lest he decide to urge Congress to pass legislation outlawing old, unattractive females.

    “Are you kidding? Have you seen her???”

    /rant

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23. Sorry, I get rage-y when I think of Trump’s expressed attitude towards women.

    In other news, I was talking with a scientist some months ago. His take was that even though he’d voted Republican most of his life, he was backing Hillary as our last hope to do something about climate change before it’s too late. He was serious. He wasn’t someone in it just for the funding (like people involved in the famous climate-gate memos) — as a matter of fact, his scientific specialty did not lie in climatology, but he’s a brilliant man and has done a lot of study on the matter on his own.

    I look at things like glaciers disappearing in satellite photos and mountain-climbing friends’ anecdotes, and a cruise ship offering a cruise in the Arctic Circle because an unprecedented amount of water has opened up there — polar ice cap melting? And hear news stories about low-lying islands that are having to deal with rising ocean levels. And I wonder.

    And now I read that “President-elect Trump has selected Myron Ebell, who disputes the scientific consensus around anthropogenic global warming, to lead the EPA transition team,” and I think of this guy and his sober, researched, and thought-out concerns.

    I used to poo-poo climate change, but after talking to this guy, I’ve done some reading and thinking.

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24. Refugee,
    Don’t put yourself down, okay?. I bet you’re precious to many many people, and in many ways. No one is going to outlaw you; not on our watch.

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25. This election cycle has been frustrating, but a blessing, as I’ve been forced to pray more than ever for the repentance of BOTH the crook and the combover, and I’ve become aware that too many in the “fundagelical” circles I inhabit do indeed have some rather opportunistic moral stands–specifically folks like Ben Carson, Jerry Falwell, and James Dobson.

    And now I get to pray and hold the President-elect accountable, something I should have been doing better for….let’s just say awhile, for Presidents of both parties. Our country is in deep as evidenced by the debt (the real GAAP one exceeds $100 trillion, BTW), a poisonous political atmosphere, and Hollywood celebrities who refuse to honor their vows to move to Canada. (just kidding on that last one….well, sort of) But we get to pray and act freely for now, which is more than our brothers and sisters in places like Cuba and North Korea can say.

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26. I have decided I do not trust church in any form. Christian church goers have been used to elect an evil man who can not be trusted. I have turned my prayers to God in the vein of Esther’s response to evil. I ask for this country to be delivered from this man’s hand, I mourn, and I seek forgiveness for my sins and those of my countrymen. I will not pledge allegiance to the flag as this country has no allegiance to women.

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27. I’ve become an independent in the last year, partly because of the election, and partly because of some terrible things sent to me by my former party. I’m fed up with both parties, and I don’t want to have anything to do with a political party again for the foreseeable future.

    I will make decisions based on people and what they stand for, which could mean voting for the least likely candidate. I don’t care anymore if other people think it’s a vote for the other candidate opposing their candidate, it’s still my vote to make.

    I have come away with a very strong belief that Christians need to be praying a lot more.

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28. Well, I’ve had such a dramatic change of perspective over the last few years re: politics. I believed in the past all the “America is a Christian nation” rhetoric, labeled those who disagreed as liberal, and had that kind of attitude, etc.

    So this election was a real challenge. Whenever I watched the news or heard political talk on FB or with friends, I literally felt sick to my stomach. No way I could stomach any Talk Radio, haven’t been able to for a long time. I’d see the snarky debates on FB from a few believing friends and just cringed because of the way they treated each other. I didn’t even think I could vote.

    I’m afraid to be honest with many friends about how I really feel. I’m afraid it would hurt our friendship and add tension. But then, I may have to eventually and see how it goes.

    But I did end up voting.

    It’s made me wrestle with the fact that I hadn’t really thought about how different the Kingdom of God was from this other political worldly kingdom that it seemed much of the church merged with the Kingdom of God, as if they were the same.

    I’m first and foremost a citizen of the Kingdom of God, and it’s not the same as the Kingdom of the World (America). I’m trying to see everyone through the eyes of a Kingdom of God perspective.

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29. This was a really hard decision for me. I don’t like either candidate. i decided to vote for Trump simply because I hope he will surround himself with people who will act in a conservative manner and also because I hope he will nominate pro-life persons to the Supreme Court. I was also concerned that the problems Hillary has had in terms of national security would play out during a presidency. I personally cannot stand the man but voted for policy, not personality. I am sensitive and a pro-Hillary coworker was sad and I did not gloat or mention anything about it to her. I think the nation is in a bad place to have come up with these two in the first place. A rock and a hard place…..

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30. Yes, Abigail, I was shocked that we were left with such poor candidates who had so much personal baggage. Surely we could have done better!

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31. This is the first year where I really think you could make no ‘christian’ argument for either of them. Both had serious moral flaws. So, vote on the issues and consider the morals a wash, is my practical thought. However, since my state was already in the bag for one of them, I felt free to toss a third party vote out in mild protest.

    If you are unable to allow someone to express their anger or sadness on their own Facebook wall as they grieve their loss, just unfollow them for a few days.

    I don’t engage on politics on Facebook because people get overwrought and many of the people who think differently then me would be angry to see literally any disagreement. So I discuss offline where people are more reasonable generally. My problem is not that people expressed grief, but when anger is along the lines of ‘i hate you everyone who voted differently because you are all – long list of obscenities and name calling? That’s a bit much.

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32. Why are we in despair? Either Trump helps us economically and by appointing good judges or he does damage to us personally (economically or by war ) and we cry out to God and repent–maybe even see a revival! Hopefully the distinction will become clear between patriotism and Christianity.

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33. Well, I just lost my marbles at Franklin Graham’s recent statement today on FB. Here is my response. https://www.facebook.com/julieanne.smith/posts/10154735109053653

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34. I’ll just answer your title simply: I will never again identify as an evangelical, we’ve moved churches because folk were unapologetically discussing white power tattoos as positively equivalent to black power tattoos (in the lobby of a mainstream -and diverse- evangelical church), and my worst betrayals for my love for Muslims, concern for abuse victims, and personal identity as a third culture kid (raised abroad) American have come from people I don’t recognize anymore as Biblical Christians. I also will not be completing my degree at Liberty University online, having heard their campus pro Trump watch party featured a “Hillary for Prison” display of some sort. This election broke my relationship with American evangelicalism entirely. There’s no place for me in it and I’m out.

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35. I posted the following on Facebook this morning:

    I’m in mourning

    I am in mourning for a nation where fear, not opportunity drives our election.

    I am in mourning for a nation where justice appears to be not only blind but bound and gagged.

    I am in mourning for a nation of people who sees their interests more important than integrity and justice.

    I am in mourning because of political parties who force us into a choice of evils rather than good.

    I’m in mourning because of politics that promise but don’t deliver.

    I am in mourning for Christians who have sold out to a party, believing that that party’s leadership will bring justice to those who are oppressed.

    I am in mourning because my friends of all races and religions no longer feel safe in this country after the last election.

    I am in mourning because those that believe they are the “winners” are gloating.

    Most of all, however, I am in mourning because I weep with those who are weeping and mourn with those who mourn.

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36. I ended up not voting for either of the 2 main candidates (I chose a different minor player)… out of respect for my daughter and the trauma that a certain candidate triggered as he reminded her so vividly of her narcissistic abusive ex. She is rejecting Christianity precisely because of Christians being so willing to side with abusers against victims… or in this case… to justify why it was okay to vote for an obviously abusive person. However, I am curious about the statistics being quoted… are there really THAT many “evangelicals” that they would account for 82% of his votes?

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37. Julie Anne, you sure make strong accusations of franklin graham. Can you prove that money had anything to do with his endorsement of Trump? Sure, I think Christians should have come together and supported a third-party candidate, but I am not going to pretend that those who disagree with me are corrupt.

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38. “Well, I just lost my marbles at Franklin Graham’s recent statement today on FB. Here is my response.

    You’re a warrior woman Julie Anne, and have not forgotten the face of your father. Their feathers needed rufflin’.
    I’m proud of you!

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39. I have to stay off Facebook as my pro-Trump friends gloat and chortle with glee and ignore his horrible statements and behavior.

    I am especially shocked that women who’ve been raped or been victims of domestic violence voted for Trump.

    But I am glad for this:
    Many Evangelical leaders came out strongly anti-Trump. It was the first really big political split in white Evangelical leadership I remember. And I think it’s a good thing. I hope the divorce between Evangelicals and lust for political power continues.

    In 2012 after the election, I received an email from a prominent Christian author in essence demanding a witch hunt to identify and “educate” the 6 million Evangelicals who voted for Obama. I don’t think I’ll get a similar one from him this year.

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40. JA, I really liked your post to Franklin Graham. How impudent of him to speak for God. Trump is only a man. What if he turns out to be a terrible president, what if he leads our country to ruin? What will FG say then? This is the kind of thing that has totally turned me off to evangelicalism. The pride and arrogance.

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41. Irene, as I said in my post. Follow the money. It makes no sense whatsoever for a pastor to endorse a man who breaks up marriages, thinks he’s entitled to married women’s genitals if there was not something in it for him.

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42. Mary, my heart goes out to your daughter. No wonder so many people reject Christianity.

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43. Julie Anne, it borders on slander to assume false motives for someone and pass it on as fact.

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44. The key word in your sentence is “false” motives. I believe my words to be true, Irene, so I’m fine. And for the record, I think you mean defamatory, not slander.

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45. Wow. I cannot understand how people who are angry at one side for not acting like Christians can talk so meanly about other Christians. That is also acting in an unchristian manner! Have you forgotten what unites us?

    I am so thankful for franklin graham and all the work he has done to help those in Haiti and many other places. Yes, he draws a large salary, but that doesn’t make him wicked as far as I am concerned.

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46. I have ample justification based on facts and first-hand accounts for my anger against him. Please don’t worry about my behavior. I don’t think God would mind me being upset about the very things He would be upset about.

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47. I was saddened about how the debate wasn’t about important issues that affect all Americans but rather personal insults. I found the whole thing hypocritical. I think the election was dummied down. I was also upset with what wasn’t talked about in the debates and how silent both camps were on issues that concern average Americans. I feel the media pushes emotions rather than looking at facts. It is so hyped emotionally that it is no wonder some feel this huge emotional explosion after the elections. I wish America would limit the election process like the UK. We don’t need to bombarded months on end for so long. It is traumatizing no matter what side one is pulling for. All disagreements are taken so personally when it is not meant that way.

    I really think Christian leaders should keep quiet about who they endorse. They are just adding to the emotional baggage like the media. Christian leaders are called to minister to Democrats, Republicans and all others. I believe all Christians need to vote, if they choose to, but telling folks who to vote for is off limits in my mind. Christians need to do their own homework and stop letting others tell them what to do. I am to the point where I don’t want to tell my brothers, and sisters, my views on candidates. I have Christian folks from the Obama/Romney election that won’t even talk to me in church anymore since I disagreed with them. It is sad to see believers act like unbelievers. The church use to be a place where we all loved each other under the banner of Jesus Christ. Now it has all changed.

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48. As someone thousands of miles away from the action, I felt very sorry for American evangelicals trying to maintain a clear conscience in the light of what seems to me to be two worst candidates in living memory. The endless ‘lesser of two evils’ debates, and how ‘evil’ does someone have to be before you can’t vote for them at all.

    There is more than a little parallel with Brexit, where an out of touch political class – both right and left – were shocked when the neglected and ignored hit back. Watching the coverage of the election on BBC World, I saw a Democrat using precisely the same language as disappointed Remain supporters in the UK – Trump’s supporters are “white racists, bigots and uneducated”.

    One strong difference between the UK and US is that any attempt by a pastor/vicar to influence how a congregation should vote is absolutely off limits. It’s not illegal, but just not done by common consent.

    I am also unhappy at how many US brethren tend to line conservative Christianity up with conservative politics and free market capitalism (Doug Wilson is a good example). I don’t think you can line the bible up with any one political and economic program, but bits of all of them. (Read Matt 20 1 – 15 and ask yourself whether Jesus was a capitalist – the owner of a business has sole rights over wages and conditions, or a socialist – equality for all is what’s right! )

    I said to a shocked American colleague of mine after the results “Are you sure you wouldn’t prefer a monarchy”?
    
    She replied “You mean King Donald”!

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49. If the 2 major ca candidates in this election had the highest disapproval rating ever, how on earth did they get to be their parties nominees? Simply put, the worst elements of both parties have etaken over. I have voted in many elections.and if you had told me even s few years ago we have this evil circus for a. Presidential election I would nothave believed it. I ha e been sickened by the entire spectical and am severely depressed. I am especially sickened that evangelicals openly endorsed a narcissistic serial abuser as “God’s choice”. God definitely didn’t have any favorites in this election.

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50. Sitting in the tractor, winding up with tillage on corn ground, I heard a radio program feature the woman who was raped at the age of 12. The rapist’s defense attorney was Hillary R. I sat in that tractor and listened to this abused, wounded woman repeat the statements Hillary said to defend that wicked and evil man. All statements were lies according to the victim, who was almost beaten to death by the rapist and his cohort during the attack.

    I cried and cried and cried for that rape victim, now an adult, but reliving history as if it were taking place today. Then is dawned on me, if Hillary is for women, women’s rights, and women empowerment, why then did she defend a rapist whom she knew was guilty? And why and how was all of the convicting evidence to convict the perp, conveniently missing before the trial, thus invalidating the testimony of the witness?

    I did not vote in the last several elections and have come to realize that our country is heading right for the one world globalistic leader, which has accelerated under that last eight administrations, regardless of the party flavor.

    Our insurance company dropped our policy like a hot potato. This makes me very unhappy and I believe it to be unfair. Have paid increasing premium fees over the years, our deductible increasing every year, all the while we have used the services minimally as our LORD has sustained our health thus far. Now, instead of having private health care, choosing our own medical staff for our needs, we are now instructed to sign up for the government health care plan in which we will be paying higher premium fees with a much higher deductible, and our medical choices are limited by the policy. We have lost our freedom and liberty in choosing the doctors of our choice as well as being penalized under ‘unaffordable’ care with skyrocketing premiums. I never dreamed I would experience this abuse of power during my lifetime.

    There is a phrase in my neck of the woods, and it’s called “We’re going to go insurance broke.” We have been lied to concerning ‘affordable health care’ and our family is a perfect example of the wickedness and evil being done in high places to destroy our lives, our work ethic, and eventually our faith in Christ.

    I voted this year and am not ashamed of my choice, nor do I ‘have blood on my hands’ as so many within the false church claim. This is rubbish. I believe our government has forgotten many of us and has thrown the average “Joe” under the bus. Psalm 118:8-9 explicitly states that as believers, we are not to place our hope in man or in nations, for they are not our LORD, but fallen vessels used by our LORD. This gives me comfort.

    Attended functions on both sides of the political fence, and the phrase, “Hillary is our only hope,” as well as “Trump is going to save us.” Misplaced worship, perhaps.

    WOW! To hear people placing their only hope, or their salvation in a man or woman tells me this, “It’s time to bring the missionaries home to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with its people.” I personally am thankful, our LORD chose for me to be born in the United States for this dirt farmer has been blessed above and beyond; can’t name another geographical location that I would rather be. Also, sing our LORD’S praises that I was born for ‘such a time’ as this, for I find it easy to speak the name of Jesus in everyday, casual conversation, with those who have an ear to listen. And I also know, from reading and studying the Scriptures for myself, not allowing a pastor, celebrity preacher or teacher, or any other religious individual, but rather relying on the Holy Spirit for instruction, that our Glorious God is still in control of all things and it brings me to my knees, having a peace and contentment that is difficult to put into human words.

    As an opposing woman at one of the rallies was holding up a sign promoting climate change to agitate the crowds standing in line, it was a joy to lovingly tell her, “All weather patterns are controlled by the God of the Bible, not man induced. In fact, Jesus has authority over all things that take place on this earth.” per Matthew 28

    And another born again believer behind me stated, “Amen! And Jesus is coming back again, real soon!”

    Brought tears to me eyes, ’nuff said.

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51. Sorry Julie Anne,
    Long winded; won’t be offended if you choose to delete. I respect your blog.

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52. Niteowl,

    Trump (and/or Hillary or whoever) is as much “God’s choice” as the dog poo on the bottom of my open-toe sandal. Thank you very much, dog in the park. People need to get over this “America is God’s nation” lie they’ve been told for the longest time (come one, how many pastors have been selling this lie?) And “pastors” (or God-channelers) such as Franklin Graham and his absolute ungodly, unscriptural drivel should just stop talking nonsense.Julie Anne is 100% correct in her critique and criticism of this false teacher. Here’s what he wrote (please spot all the obvious errors). Indeed, how does Graham know these things?

    ‘”Did God show up? In watching the news after the election, the secular media keep asking “How did this happen?” “What went wrong?” “How did we miss this?” Some are in shock. Political pundits are stunned. Many thought the Trump/Pence ticket didn’t have a chance. None of them understand the God-factor.
    Hundreds of thousands of Christians from across the United States have been praying. This year they came out to every state capitol to pray for this election and for the future of America. Prayer groups were started. Families prayed. Churches prayed. Then Christians went to the polls, and God showed up.”‘ ~Franklin Graham

    1) The God-factor? Whazzat? Does that apply ONLY to election time, and only to certain elections in certain countries when certain candidates are being voted for?
    2) Did God show up? Really? What kind of talk is that? Where has He been? NOT in California, it seems. Did people not pray there too? I mean, of ALL the places in the USA, that’s the one place that’s rotten from north to south. Did God forget that little disgusting and decadent strip? He did not show up there. Is He being inconsistent?
    3) Hundreds and thousands of Christians prayed for Clinton to win too, BTW. So, what now? And their motivations were also pure, you know? Same God, you know?
    4) But this sentence gets me the most: “Then Christians went to the polls, and God showed up.” Oh, I see, there’s a condition now. We do A, God does B. Rubbish

    As a born-again Christian, this election left a bad taste in the mouth. All I can say is trust not in man, but in God. Alone.

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53. Katy,
    Why must your post be deleted? You spoke from the heart and many truths. Nothin’ wrong.
    And I can add: Come, Lord Jesus!

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54. You are kind Boston Lady. Used to be heavily involved in the political process, on the phones soliciting information for the Republican party many years ago. Used to believe in the Republican party and saw no wickedness or evil in its ranks; was completely blinded.

    I worshiped politics; its important people, all of the lines coming out of the mouths of ruling authority and received a non-drug “high” off it all. Power is heady and one begins to feel like a god in and of itself, and a special “chosen one” for being asked to participate in certain events for a well known political candidate. It’s like the beta girls following around the popular girls in high school; you receive positive attention because your hanging out with the “cool kids.” Same effect.

    Then I began to see politics in its true form, the same tactics, the same lies, the same speech, the same selfishness, the same everything, pertaining to both parties. Frankly, I couldn’t believe some of the emails I received from a ruling elder of my former church, blatantly mocking the Democrats using filthy language and dirty, mocking pictures. I asked him politely to please never send me anymore political emails for I don’t appreciate that, and he did not respect my request. So I had to become a little more firm, and just plain outright tell him in a more descript way, “Don’t send me anymore emails, they disgust me. Thank-you sir, for respecting me.” He finally honored me as a human being with individual rights of my own apart from politics and apart from his pseudo religious authority over my life.

    And I have to agree with you actually, “this election left a bad taste in the mouth.”
    Me as well, for I believe there is displaced hope and salvation. I don’t worship big government, nor its people, but we’re still called to love Jesus and serve Him wherever He has placed us…..we are called to be His Ekklesia/called out ones, with our mouths, hands and feet wherever we go, 24/7.

    And Amen sister, “Come Lord Jesus!” There’s the Hope and the Salvation, right there!”

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55. Katy, your story is why I did this post. I sensed that we needed a safe place to unload our stories, our anger, sadness, and pain. Many of us made the choice to vote for someone we would never vote for, except for this election, the other candidate was even worse in our eyes.

    Thank you for sharing your story. It helps me to see through your eyes things I hadn’t considered before.

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56. Yes, safe places are so important. My FB literally “blew up” with rude comments from supporters of either side. I won’t contact specifically there as I just don’t find those kinds of interchanges productive or valuable. I actually unfollowed (not unfriended) a couple of people for the duration of the election because their comments were so caustic. I wonder if they would dare to say those same comments to my face at church?

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57. @JulieAnne:

    Well, I just lost my marbles at Franklin Graham’s recent statement today on FB.

    Franklin Graham (didn’t he make pilgrimage to Trump Tower early in the campaign to deliver The Anointing?) sounds like he’s angling for a night in the Lincoln Bedroom as Kingmaker.

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58. @Katy:

    And another born again believer behind me stated, “Amen! And Jesus is coming back again, real soon!”

    As a veteran/survivor of The Gospel According to Hal Lindsay and Christians For Nuclear War, I have a very different reaction to that statement.

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59. Thank you, all, for such respectful and honest conversation. I knew we could do it. 🙂 Carry on!

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60. Regarding “safe spaces”, I created one for myself and my family on Tuesday by turning off the TV and shooing my kids away from the computer. Didn’t let anyone log in until about 8am on Wednesday. We had a nice dinner, family devotions and some literature time, and went to bed at a reasonable hour.

    Don’t know how I would watch any politics if I had been sexually assaulted in a way that “stuck” with me. The list of politicians with a huge “ick” factor this way in both parties means that the trigger is stuck on full auto, more or less.

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61. I hadn’t planned to chime in but Julie Anne has been so very gracious to me over the years, and she encouraged me to let my voice be heard, so here I am. I don’t want to write too much, and have people not read through it, so I’ll be brief.

    I’m distraught and very angry. I’m sick of conservative evangelicals like Franklin Graham and Jerry Falwell, Jr. manipulating and deceiving people into a Republican vote, saying that whoever is the Republican candidate is “God’s man” for the job, and making believers feel as though, if they don’t vote Republican, then they are godless liberals. That is exactly what Franklin Graham said publicly.

    Hillary has had her problems and we all know that. Here’s one stark difference between Hillary and Donald: Hillary owned and embraced her errors; Trump doesn’t believe he has ever committed any errors. He has been hateful, divisive, racist, misogynistic, xenophobic, the textbook definition of a raging narcissist, and he just so happen to choose one of the most anti-LGBTQ running mates since Pat Robertson ran for president. But evangelicals, no matter how godless and despicable Trump proved himself to be, rallied behind him — the likes of James Dobson, Richard Land, Robert Jeffress, Ronnie Floyd, Kenneth and Gloria Copeland even being voluntary “spiritual advisors.” I am still beside myself.

    What I have concluded about the vast majority of conservative evangelicals is that they do not represent biblical Christianity but the religious branch of the Republican party. I am saddened, a bit fearful, and generally ticked off. I’m in a bit of denial that this is our reality and I’m struggling with hopelessness for many people in this country, especially foreigners (immigrants), women, and LGBTQ people. I cling to one primary truth: the Kingdom of God is not of this world.

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62. I will wait until I have good reason to trust the new President before I will become a supporter. I will of course continue to obey the laws of this country and I will pray for evidence of Trump’s salvation as I think such current reports are wishful thinking.

    I will support individuals who have been targeted by him during his campaign. I was raised to believe that this country is the melting pot of the world. I have been appalled that our children and fellow citizens have been intimidated by the uglies made bold by this big bully’s vicious mouth.

    I am inclined to view the results of this election as God’s judgement AGAINST this country. May we all learn what true repentance means, including those who think they have no need to repent. And may I be the among the first to humble myself at the foot of the Cross. May God have mercy on us all!!

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63. I have been appalled that our children and fellow citizens have been intimidated by the uglies made bold by this big bully’s vicious mouth.

    Their have been vicious, insulting comments coming from the other side as well. There was actually an interesting rant from a British lefty about how telling people they cannot express their pov without being called names is how you get people like trump and brexit. I do not forget that mitt Romney was called sexist for having a bunch of women he wanted to hire and that George w was called chimpy Mcbush hitler. So when another person comes along and people go to the same well it becomes meaningless (I am not speaking of this board but of the things I’ve been seeing from friends for months). Hillary herself called half of trumps supporters deplorables. I am so tired of this kind of talk and I know that others are too.

    Trump wasn’t my guy but when people call every candidate the same names no mater what their temperament people should not be surprised that they get tuned out.

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64. Lea,
    And all that name-calling for a little power that could be taken away at any moment.

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65. William, you express my personal thoughts so well. I especially agree with your conclusion that so many conservative evangelical leaders are promoting Republican party agenda, and then they label it as “Christian.” It’s very messy because if you happen to go against the establishment, people assume you are liberal and even non-Christian. Thanks for speaking out, William 🙂

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66. I was not surprised even though I went with the predictions thinking Secretary Clinton would win in an electoral and popular vote. It became rather clear that that was not going to happen early in the evening. Mr. Trump had a better ground game thanks to the RNC than his own organization had. There was a deep anger of people in the rust belt about a feeling being left out. Sad to say they will be left out again given the early leanings of President-Elect Trump’s transition team. I am somewhat disappointed but I am very concerned about funding for the people I work with. People with disabilities / mental illness are the very first to have services cut and well those services are rarely restored. There is the vile comments that bother me I am sort of use to it having listened to it most of my career, especially from real world faith community concerning government teachers being traitors to the country, or I dont love Jesus etc. The one I really struggle with is the “they are faking it”. So this rhetoric brings back emotions.

    I will be honest I am livid at people like Mohler, Phil Johnson, Burk and that ilk, they spewed all over Mr. Trump during the election but they are now all moralizing (kissing up) now that he is elected. It makes me want to barf. I have hopes in that his presidency might work. But the feelings of the religious right selling their convictions to be part of the power structure and the desire to get even. They spewed all sorts of nonsense about President Obama, outright lies, and they knew it. Now they all act hurt and want reconciliation. Barf. Talk about a group that blabbers on about personal responsibility yet take none. That is how I feel, I am personally tired of fighting, it has been 36 years of constant fighting and advocating. The other issue is how some have been emboldened to hate and be violent, on both sides.

    To be honest I am tired as a Christian where the very first requirement is to hate all aspects of my humanity and to see me and all others as vile filthy unregenerate rebellious God hating scum and we would be far worse without common grace. I dont find that in humanity to be honest. Thank you for letting us vent.

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67. How much of the animosity against Trump is against the “real” Trump and how much of it is against a media caricature? What I hate on both sides is when we are told to be horrified about something that an (R) or a (D) does only to find that the other party did exactly the same.

    Some examples:
    The “Individual Mandate” railed against by Republicans was actually proposed, in an earlier bill, by a Republican.
    Republicans were railed against for bringing us near a “fiscal cliff” when they refused to increase the debt ceiling (with Obama as President), but many years earlier, the same threats were made by the other side with Bush as President.

    I think that each election, the media hatches a plan to put their candidate in office. The plan this election seemed to be to give the most wacko Republican candidates the most airtime (aka Cruz and Trump) and ignore the more reasonable candidates (aka Kasich and maybe Bush). Once the opponent of choice got put on the throne, then it became a three-ring circus to paint him in the worst light. Do I think that Hillary Clinton spend over a year campaigning and never had a “Folders of women” moment, or an “Aleppo” moment? Of course not! In fact, when women said they felt silenced by Hillary after being assaulted by Bill, article after article came out attempting to exonerate her of any involvement.

    I’m really angry that Trump got elected, and I would have been angry, but not as much, had Hillary been elected. I think neither candidate represents the people of the United States. I think both are narcissists who have squashed anyone in their path to grab more and more power.

    I think the “official” Republican platform is one of self-reliance, self-determination, small government and economic freedom, but I have not seen a Republican president, in my lifetime, who shrank government or created more economic freedom. Instead, they have doubled down on the military-industrial complex. The Democratic platform is one of caring and compassion, yet it seems the laws put in place, rather than caring, have created an impenetrable barrier to escaping from poverty – so much that people will refuse pay increases so as not to lose thousands of dollars in benefits.

    So, I vote, but in terms of politics, I’m a “Done”.

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68. Interesting, Mark -Done to politics! May I join you?

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69. This has been a great conversation.

    Trump has been a public figure for quite some time, he’s said and done a lot of things of public record. One red flag is he doesn’t have long-time friends or associates. Did any of you read the article by the man who ghostwrote Trump’s book? It’s so interesting in terms of the man behind the scenes. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all

    I understand the platform is one thing and probably many, if not most, people voted for the platform while trying to overlook the person representing it. What I’d really like to see is a repudiation of that behavior by them. It would go a long way to hear them clearly say and demonstrate that they don’t support the behavior.

    I’m also finding myself musing on the persona evangelicals have for Hillary. A lot of people believe she is so powerful that she’s been able to avoid prosecution for serious crimes, including multiple murders. I think it’s an interesting question to ask if there’s some sort of Jezebel archetype that’s been tapped into?

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70. I think of the fiscal harm of how poverty can enable a victim to continue to be a victim with no where to go.

    Those of us who champion Liberal, Moderate or Conservative Ideology, realized that Clinton or Trump were going to win this last election.

    I read a few statements of Rand Paul’s Libertarian view,, he eloquently in a frank way exposed how toxic these two candidates are.

    I learned more about Hillary’s Ideology, History and agree with Bernie Sanders that the system is rigged as she was given questions for her debates and the progressive agenda backed by the likes of George Soros. I’m not a fan of Sanders, because he is a Socialist, but at least he admits it.
    As for Trump he has been exposed for much of what he has done as well. Both their personal lives are equal in my view. So neither will get a free pass when it comes to morality. I need to be careful because Christ reminded us.. “let those without sin, throw the first stone”

    There are those here that wanted Trump because he was a Republican or simply he is business/pro-growth minded and Hillary was too Liberal embracing big Gov’t.
    Then there are those that back Hillary, because she is Liberal, big Gov’t and yes because she is a woman, which is sexiest. The same could be said if a person who votes for a candidate strictly because he is a man.

    I would never vote for a candidate based on gender or race. In this case it came down to Fiscal Ideology, period. I have voted for both men and women based on who would do the less damage,, not a Socialist.

    The last eight years, the middle class got squeezed, which can’t be good for abused women,,
    If we are only focused on abuse or sexism it would not end with socialist/progressive Gov’t, but in fact it would increase in my view, because poverty is no friend to an abused woman. (speaking from personal experience watching my mom and what she instilled in me)
    If in fact the economy booms because of less Gov’t over-site on businesses, abused women would have greater opportunity to escape abuse and make it on their own and possibly the asset pie will be larger for her, to sue her abuser.

    I notice in some way or other, when is comes to politics all of us are spinning our political views and now it is being tied to abuse, when in fact both Candidates track record of how they treat others stinks and makes us look stupid and hypocritical by exposing our own political bias. We will magnify the one we like the least.

    Lets say Hillary and Trump are clean as a whistle,, you can’t tell me that some of you would vote for either Hillary or Trump because of ideology and bias. And truthfully we still have views that collide with our opposing Liberal, Moderate of Conservative ideologies.

    I think politics has no place in this thread,,

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71. Shy1; the simple answer about the sex scandals (I held my nose and voted Trump) is that one candidate had loutish behavior, and the other had been the head of her husband’s “bimbo eruptions” team. Choose your poison, no? It wasn’t Trump who paid close to a million bucks to settle a sexual harassment lawsuit.

    Both have few long term friends, really–Bill has them, Hillary not so much, and I’m not even quite sure Bill qualifies at times for her. My vote was predicated on a very simple factor; which party showed “their guy” the door when it was clear he was a crook?

    And writing as someone who has worked for two defense contractors, yes, Hillary has had a charmed life with regards to avoiding prosecution. Suffice it to say that when the FBI investigates one of the “little people” accused of mishandling classified data or worse, the FBI issues subpoenas, convenes a grand jury, and gets evidence in a matter of days instead of months. Yes, Mr. Comey gave Mrs. Clinton a huge gift by waiting months and failing to convene a grand jury, and then deciding not to recommend indictment based on ….really evidence that he never collected, but should have.

    And that’s why it was very important for me to vote for a guy from a party that showed Nixon the door, and not for the lady whose party did not show her husband the door for perjury and obstruction of justice. I don’t know whether Trump will drain the swamp, or even if he wants to, but the odds that GOP legislators will show him the door if he gets out of line are decent. Hillary, not so much.

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72. @Bike Bubba

    but the odds that GOP legislators will show him the door if he gets out of line are decent.

    They didn’t show Bush or Cheney the door when advisers lost 22 million emails from a private RNC server. The White House refused to comply with a congressional subpoena. Imagine the uproar if Hillary had tried that. Nobody called for Bush or Cheney to go to jail. No, the repubs will not show their man “the door.” At least not on any email scandal.

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73. Psalm 75:6-8
    [6] For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south. [7] But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another.

    Considering this passage, who are we to argue with God or charge Him with wrongdoing?

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74. Who’s arguing with God?

    Yeah, we’re getting a little off topic but I sure appreciate everyone sharing, it helps me understand where people are coming from and that brings a feeling of peace. Thank you!

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75. “They [the Jewish people] made kings, but not through me [the LORD]; they set up princes, but without my knowledge [or acknowledgment, approval].” (Hosea 8:4)

    Considering this passage, who are we to argue with God holding US accountable for OUR choices?

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76. I voted for neither but I’ve heard plenty of trash talk from people who didn’t vote for Trump. Just read a bunch of post on Facebook. One Black Christian calling those who voted for Trump white trash & pondering the women getting raped by their Uncle Bubba & how they were going to handle that. Other’s posting “Eff off” if someone voted for Trump, getting called a lower form of life.

    I read some of the commentary from Burk and Mohler. In my opinion I didn’t find them to be kissing up to the President-elect. But that is my opinion. I found them to be wondering what his presidency would be & that he should be prayed for. Hey I’m going to pray for him to do well. Does that make me a kiss up too?

    This election has brought out the worse in Evangeliclism both in the power brokers who are all about the power & having a place at the table & everyday folks being smug, denigrating and sneering.

    I believe worse, a crack is busted open in Evangelical Christianity & I don’t I don’t think the breach can be overcome.

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77. Katy says: “if Hillary is for women, women’s rights, and women empowerment, why then did she defend a rapist whom she knew was guilty? And why and how was all of the convicting evidence to convict the perp, conveniently missing before the trial, thus invalidating the testimony of the witness?”

    Hillary Clinton was ordered to defend the perpetrator by the judge in the case. She asked to be removed from the case but the judge refused. At that point, she had a legal obligation to do everything she could on behalf of her client. The material evidence was held by the prosecutorial team, who mishandled it and made proving the perpetrator’s guilt very difficult.

    We may not like the fact that rapists are defended, but the right of any defendant to counsel is guaranteed by the 6th Amendment to the Constitution.

    Hillary certainly has her flaws, but she does not, in my opinion, deserve the charge you have made. You might be interested in reading more about the case at
    http://www.factcheck.org/2016/06/clintons-1975-rape-case/

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78. Lydia00

    “I have seen way too many hard working people slip into lower class from job loss, lose their homes and such. 100 million Americans of working age are unemployed. We had to try something drastic.”

    The total U.S. Population is 325 million. That would mean almost 1 in 3 are unemployed. You might want to check your statistics.

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79. “The total U.S. Population is 325 million. That would mean almost 1 in 3 are unemployed. You might want to check your statistics.”

    It depend on what numbers you are reading. If you are looking at the unemployment rate the numbers are low. If you are looking at participation rate among adults–not including people in prison,etc. , the numbers are not such a rosy pictures. So you might read up on unemployment rate vs participation rate.

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80. RNC server.

    I must have missed this scandal but I would be surprised if there was classified national security information on an rnc server. Just because it involved email does not mean it’s the same thing.

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81. @Lea

    I would be surprised if there was classified national security information on an rnc server.

    According to a NYTimes article there was. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12emails.html

    I’ll let people google for themselves if they want more information. (I don’t want to turn this calm and thoughtful thread into another FB debate) There’s an excellent Newsweek article that comes up immediately in the search results. There was much less media coverage on the Bush White House email scandal, and it was almost 10 years ago. I’m not surprised people don’t know about it.

    The partisanship is one thing that really bothers me in this whole process. I don’t believe either party has any moral high ground. They both live in glass houses. All we can do is vote according to the issues that concern us most. I think Christians can find issues on either side to support, but evangelicals seem to think that God is a Republican. I don’t believe that. I think he weeps for all hurting people no matter who they vote for.

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82. There were three presidential candidates on the ballot in my home state, and I couldn’t vote for any of them. I wrote in Snoopy. That’s how disgusted I was with the slate being offered. For me, it all came down to a conscience issue, and in good conscience, I couldn’t vote for any of them.

    I’m very disheartened by the violence and — my word — “whining” I’m seeing from some who are very displeased by the election results. I use the term to describe the “cry-ins” I’ve heard about at at least one college.

    I’m also very disheartened by the reports I’m hearing of harassment and vandalism by people claiming to support Trump. I’m seeing pictures of swastikas, racist graffiti, and tweets about people being targeted. Admittedly, I wonder how many reports of harassment are true (there’s already been one person who made up a story about being attacked by a Trump supporter. The reason I tend to be skeptical of tweets saying that the tweeter has been harassed is because anyone can post anything on the Internet, true or not, and I’ve seen enough links on Facebook to fake news sites to make me question just about everything I see there.)

    And yet, as your site, the Wartburg site, the Watch Keep site, and others show, there ARE people who are abused and there ARE people who keep quiet about it for years. I have friends who are very angry about Trump’s election because they were abuse victims, or know people who are. Do I blame them for being angry? No. I’m a political and moral conservative, but why did it have to be THIS candidate that conservatives ended up supporting?

    I think I’m right to be skeptical of some reports of harassment; but I also wonder if my skepticism is because I just don’t want to believe that such things (such as a woman’s hijab being ripped off and Hispanic students being threatened with deportation) can and do happen.

    My own minister, thankfully, steers clear of partisan politics from the pulpit and in his Facebook posts. We are a congregation of many political leanings and many shades of skin. I’m sure that, when he preaches on Sunday, he will emphasize “love first” (our slogan, based on the Scripture “We love because he first loved us.”) I believe our church will be a welcoming place for all. But what about the places that aren’t?

    I describe myself as an imperfect follower of a perfect God, and I’m still trying to work through what is happening in this country.

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83. This conversation is a breath of fresh air! We certainly don’t all agree but there seems to be a feeling of respect here – so refreshing after all the hate.

    As a Canadian I must say I am quite concerned about what a Trump presidency will mean for the world. I have really been trying to understand the political climate that led to this and, while I think I am coming to understand the economic desperation felt by many Americans, I just can’t get behind Trump.

    People hate Hillary. I understand that. The two candidates presented were both pretty terrible. But – Hillary is a seasoned politician. She actually understands diplomacy and has a ton of experience. Trump has absolutely zero political experience and is really a pretty terrible business person. Add on to that the fact that he has normalized xenophobia, racism, misogyny, and hate and I think it’s a recipe for disaster.

    I really hope I am wrong. I hope he turns out to be a great president. Those of you who voted for him, I hope you really feel like he serves you well. I hope he really does help find solutions to the very real problems you face. You really do need a government that listens to you.

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84. Mom of 3,,

    Poverty is no friend to abused women and even worse if they have kids.

    It was “Seasoned” Politicians that created the massive meltdown in our nation and it was “Seasoned” Politicians bad no-growth policy that stagnated economic growth and kept much of the middle class barely able to support their families.

    Both Bush #2 and Obama have been using the same Keynesian Federal Reserve managing our Federal Reserve doing the same things for the last 16 years. And Hillary admittedly was going to continue riding the Bush #2 and Obama socialistic train of Gov’t over-regulation, which would make even more abused women enabled and trapped.

    The Clinton Foundation which is under serious investigation for corruption has received 250 Million Dollars from Middle Eastern Nations who is buying political influence, who by and large Hate Christians, and treat most of their women like they are second best. So I don’t really consider her a champion of women’s causes.

    Do you really want Middle Eastern Nation to influence the way Hillary would set economic policy with oil production?

    Rand Paul and Donald Trump were the only 2 candidates that criticized the Federal Reserve as others really don’t understand how money rotates in the Global Economy. Rand Paul dropped out so that left one candidate that has any economic savy.

    This election was ugly,, if Trump gets himself in hot water, Vice-President Pence will be a fine President as he is a man of integrity and has a clue of how and economy should work.

    One of the easiest ways for a women to escape abuse is economic freedom and I don’t see that happening with an Established Politician.

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85. Quite a few things come to mind for me. I can overlook the “entertainment” aspect of Donald Trump, very easily. I, too, am guilty of the things that Donald Trump has said about women, coming from a navy mentality. Who has never heard the phrase, “talks like a sailor”???? Ya, I talked and acted like a sailor in those days. Girl in every port? Ya, that was me. Locker room talk, ya, I can relate. Howard Stern gets paid a lot of money to talk about women the same way that Donald Trump did, and no one gets on Howard Sterns case about how he talks. He even has a woman co-host that condones it. I know many many people that enjoyed his late night TV and Radio show, both men and women. Yes, women, too. On social media blogs, I saw so much phony and fake outrage about Donald Trump’s remarks about women. I don’t know if some here remember those very late night 30 minute TV commercials called “Girls Gone Wild”? Flash the boobs at the beach? Our culture is entrenched in this stuff, and the women participate. Therefore, I can overlook what Trump has said about women, because the phony outrage came from mainly the republican establishment, and the left who didn’t want ANY republican in office to begin with, and if we do remember, John McCain was accused of having affairs when he ran for president as well. Accusations of sexual misconduct is a norm in the political field when republicans run for office. It’s nothing new. Then we see John F Kennedy that the women just adored, regardless of his famous affairs. His sexual misconduct just didn’t matter to a hill of beans, but Trump’s comments do? OK, so I was shocked to hear those words coming from Trump about Nancy Odell. But you know what? The actions of those words never happened. If you read the comments that Nancy Odell responded about, is that she did not like to be objectified like that. But there was absolutely no “grabbing of the pussy”. It was just, as he said, locker room talk. And I hope that women are not so naive to think that men, yes, even your good Christian men, are guilty of the same thing at some point in their lives. All men are guilty of looking at a woman to lust after her in their hearts.

    But how Donald Trump spoke about women is not my concern. As Donald’s wife said, and I have also said it, as well (and I get hammered for it), accusations of sexual misconduct should be handled in a court of law, not a week before a presidential election with Gloria Alred at your side, crying crockadile tears. I do not believe the women’s story to begin with, especially that one from the flight in first class, as she was OK with it for about 15 minutes on the breasts, but when he went below, that is where she drew the line???? Ya, that story didn’t hold up at all. Totally debunked, and Donald had a witness that was on that same flight. Airline stewardesses stated on many conservative radio shows that arm rests did not go up in those days in first class, and attendents were at your beck in call constantly, so where would there be time for Donald to do anything to that woman in first class?

    I can “read between the lines”, and I listened to his talk outside of the discussions of women. His rally’s were always live on his Facebook page, as well as Youtube, and I’ve also seen his Town Hall meetings live with the US Veterans, and others, as well. Policies were always discussed, but some just only heard “women” for some reason.

    The ’80’s!!!!!!
    I began my US Navy military career in 1983. I have been literally around the world, and to very many different countries world wide. Every time that I think of the 80’s, I’d give my right eye to relive the 80’s all over again. Ronald Reagan set a standard that cannot be diminished. A safer America is when our enemies fear us, and what do we have since Bill Clinton? They laugh at us. When Obama went on a world wide apology tour, I was flabbergasted, and outraged. So, I LOVE it that Trump demeans our enemies, because they do not fear us, as in the days of Ronald Reagan. Peace thru strength. Peace thru appeasement just does not work.

    Who would not love to relive the 80’s again? Best of times!

    I was outraged at establishment republicans, and self righteous Christians at Liberty University, and Russell Moore of SBC, and Mitt Romney, and House Speaker Paul Ryan, and many others attempting to DICTATE to me as to who I should not vote for. We get enough of “this is not who we are” from Obama dictating to us as to what “our values” are, and are not.
    I learned a lot about SELF RIGHTEOUS Christians that come from what is widely known as the “religious right”, and I, as a Christian, am appauled by the “religious right” who thinks that they speak FOR me, in my stead.

    I want a leader that is NOT afraid to speak his mind, and I don’t care if some do not think it’s “presidential”. It is indeed presidential, as far as I am concerned. Ronald Reagan got a lot of flack for telling someone to Tear Down This Wall. Some did not think that was so presidential.

    Hillary Clinton NEVER divorced her husband for the many many many women that Bill had sex with. Why? Because she loved him that much? I don’t think so. Bill was her stepping stone to become president. Without him, she’d never make it on her own. A normal wife would have divorced him long ago. She becomes a senator in New York to be more famous by people in a very visible area around the world, not because she cares so much about people, but because she had a plan to become president. I don’t need to talk about Libya, or Bengazi, or emails, or Clinton foundation stuff, because she already showed her phoniness to me in regards to not divorcing Bill for his numerous sexual misconducts, when a normal woman would have. And she did not divorce him, because she wanted to be President.

    Now, we have people being violent about this election, crying, needing counseling, schools canceling classes in order to console people about this?

    Ed

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86. Ed, Howard stern has never been a candidate (thank God). One thing that I will not allow here is putting down people for having an emotional response to his victory or her loss. I live in a community with many Hispanics and his words about deportation have been frightening to children. Something would be wrong with them if they showed no response.

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87. Its given me hope…all the Clinton scandals, the media bias, even the republican establishment. The people are tired of the Media and Politics,and the Liberal agenda being shoved down our throats…the outrageous OBoma insurance fiasco….on and on…Its suppose to be the government for the People…not the government screw the people….its not about funding ENTITLEMENT, its about giving people the freedom to choose their own destiny with out intrusive,laws and taxation. I for one do not want or NEED the government in my pocket, controlling my every move…I do not want their handouts..so they can own me.

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88. Julie Anne,

    Yes, I’ve heard the “he’s not the candidate” stuff before. Still, it does not matter to me at all. What matters is the policy that sets this nation back to what it was before…a respected nation that fears us. It’s a “don’t F*** with us” mentality that I want to get back to.

    We had a Sunday School teacher as a president once before. Didn’t work out so well. Jimmy Carter…a former SBC member.

    Many Christians had problems with Ronald Reagan, too. The Actor who had no morals because he divorced his wife. Ya, the religious right that is opposed to divorce, in which Ronald Reagan passed the No Fault Divorce in California, mainly due to his own difficulties in divorcing his wife.

    Therefore, I set aside the “entertainment” aspect of Trump, especially something that happened when he was not a political man. And, I’m sick and tired of political correctness. I’m tired of being demeaned by the progressives by being accused of being a racist, and a bigot, and ignorant, and uneducated, when the young folks doing that accusing is still wiping snot from their noses, and wet behind the ears. They have yet to live life, growing in wisom. Free education, legalize pot and gay marriage is their top priorities.

    We used to be E. Pluribus Unim. Now, we are out of one, many. Diversity.

    They threw everything, including the kitchen sink at Trump, and he’s still standing.

    Ed

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89. Julie Anne,

    I grew up in Yakima, the apple orchard of America. I know about Hispanics. They picked our fruit. Respect for the law is being diminished. I have respect for the law. No, it is not the childrens fault, but the parents are responsible for their children until they are of legal age. At least, it used to be. If the parents are deported, the children go with the parents. They will not be separated. It’s time that the law be respected and obeyed. What would happen if we had an undocumented airline pilot? We need to say, illegal, not undocumented. It’s not an “oops, I left my passport at home” moment.

    Abraham had to ask for permission to enter Egypt.

    Ed

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90. Ok, Ed, you spoke your feelings on this election. I don’t want this to get into debate mode. My Facebook wall already does that. lol.

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91. I am a champion of legal, orderly and safe migration,,

    Does the word “Legal” mean anything anymore.

    I have many Hispanic friends that came to America legally, who have expressed the need for a stable secure border,, as they had to go through the process of getting a Green Card and apply for citizenship.

    There is some serious tension along the southern border of Mexico with immigrants trying to get into Mexico. And Mexico is being as aggressive as the can to combat it..

    What makes us so special, that we can’t expect the same.

    Americans just can’t show up in a country and work illegally and then expect that nation to grant them citizenship,, we would get sent home or get thrown in jail. Canada is fairly strict, why aren’t we.

    What about the protest where someone was killed,, People just can’t form a group and shut city blocks and hold up traffic, break windows and vandalize cars.

    A 49 year old man was beaten Chicago by some punk thugs because the protesters thought the man voted for Trump..

    Listen, I was never a fan of Obama as he leans socialist,, I preferred Romney or Herman Cain,, but when Obama got elected, I didn’t protest or cry like a little baby, my daughters didn’t stop going to class,,

    It has been reported that these protest are being organized probably by George Soros.. so Liberals can create turmoil.

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92. A 49 year old man was beaten Chicago by some punk thugs because the protesters thought the man voted for Trump.

    Since tensions are so high right now, it’s crucial that we not pass on false, inflammatory information. This particular situation was over a traffic accident altercation. Yes, what those people did was wrong, but it wasn’t because the man voted for Trump.
    http://www.snopes.com/black-mob-beats-white-man-for-voting-trump/

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93. it was reported in the Media that way,, unless the audio and video were fabricated.

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94. It’s interesting to see the wide range of responses to the election results: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/november-web-only/trump-won-how-evangelical-leaders-feel.html

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95. Julie Anne,,

    This election was way more emotional than it should’ve been,,

    I think a lot of us at one time or another was exercising a lot more worry and concern and less faith. Though the ones supporting Hillary were probably feeling more confident the night before the election, I counted about 9 left leaning media outlets giving Hillary the thumbs up and good press and 1 for Trump. (and 1 critical of both,, Glenn Beck)

    Finally I had to give it to God the morning of the election,, because for me,, I had to realize the economy needed a boost which starts with being energy independent in North America.
    If this economy didn’t get some Gov’t over-site removed off of industry things would not improve,, geographically the map was nearly red with the exception of metropolitan areas. Rural America didn’t benefit with Metropolitan’s treating rural america like it was their park.

    Oregon is a perfect example,,, Alaska is another

    Like I have suggested a few time, Poverty is no friend to an abused woman and her kids trying to flee from abuse.,, sometimes a woman feels like she has to take it until it makes financial sense to flee. Socialistic ideologies enable women.. (and men)

    In my view a booming economy is the quickest way for a woman to flee and make it on her own, rather than a stagnant economy.

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96. I am very pragmatic. I realize that voters will vote for a liberal and then for a conservative. When I looked at England’s elections it was the same thing.

    I also took Constitutional Law in college and earned an “A”. It helps to have that under my belt knowing the checks and balances in government.

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97. @Headless Unicorn Guy,
    Concerning the belief system/worldview of Hal Lindsey: I completely understand your point of view for Hal Lindsey is not an individual that should be listened too. Period!

    Hal has propheted/profited well, using God’s Word, as his extra-Biblical revelations as his source of income/mammon. My soul has to stay completely away from the Trinity Broadcasting Network and God T.V. in order to keep my salvation in Jesus, alone, intact. Those octopus tentacles would most certainly pull me under the water, never to resurface.

    Appreciate your comment!

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98. Jesus is my savior, not any politician or political party. I am a member (subject?) of the Kingdom of God. I am but a sojourner in the land in which I was born. I prayed for God’s will in the election and not for any particular outcome. I continue to pray that His Kingdom, having already been established on Earth as it is in heaven, will be increasingly visible. The election drove me to embrace these attitudes and views.

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99. Mark, you are right about economic freedom freeing women. You are also right about the federal reserve and most people not understanding what a huge role it has in economics. Thank you for being a voice of reason.

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100. WOW! I THOUGHT this was pretty fairly a Christian nation, ya know, followers of Jesus Christ, I have learned QUITE the opposite, my goodness Democrats have PROVED that a great many are NOT Christians. The word Christian seems to be a broadly loosely used word to describe many people, these people have NO idea what the word Christian REALLY means, I mean REALLY means.

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101. BTDT, agreed that there may be some evidence that people should have stepped forward with Bush. Just make sure your source is a real journalistic source and not that Newsweak article, which in its uncritical citation of agenda groups is giving the term “hatchet job” a bad name, and is really starting to occupy territory generally occupied by conspiracy theorists and the Wobblies. It’s the journalistic equivalent of making the Yugo or the Trabant, really.

     But apart from that, there is yet a reason that I believe Drumpf could be removed from office more readily than could Hilliary or Bush; Congressmen of both parties hate his guts already.

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