JD Hall and his Bully Behavior on Twitter
It seems Jordan (JD) Hall is showing his true colors today.
He got all worked up after someone appropriately gave him some corrective criticism. Apparently, from the Twitter conversation that I read, JD Hall did not clearly cite an author’s works on his recent blog article . . or at least it was not clear to all. Even someone on JD Hall’s Facebook page responded directly to Hall as if he wrote the article. You can click on the link and see that he did not correct this woman’s wrong conclusion.
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I don’t get the beef. I have no problem whatsoever when people send me a note telling me about a typo or citation error, etc. It doesn’t offend me in the least. But JD Hall showed no grace in his response to his critic. He showed anger and rudeness. There was nothing pastoral in his response. He interpreted the suggestion as an attack and responded with Twitter cannons.
Oh . . . . but there’s one thing I left out. The person who corrected JD hall was . . . .
:::::::gasp:::::::
A W.O.M.A.N.
It would be one thing for a man to correct him, . . . but a woman? Oh my, my, my!
Have a look at the tweets that set him off. Put on your seat belt. They are sooooooooo mean and threatening to his personhood:
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It appears from the wording that the top two tweets are not even talking directly to Hall, even though he is tagged (@PulpitAndPen is his Twitter handle). I’m pretty sure the last tweet is directed to @CalvinistJohn, because his Twitter handle is first in the tweet. So, if I’m interpreting the tweets correctly, JD Hall was only tagged in these. Lisa did not tweet directly to Hall.
I noticed on Lisa’s Twitter profile that she’s an editor. So, of course she would take special notice of something important like a citation.
Remember, this is JD Hall who had a conference in his home state of Montana with the likes of Phil Johnson, Voddie Baucham, Paul Washer, etc. Here was the lineup from last summer’s conference:
In the following tweet, once again, Lisa is responding to @CalvinistJohn. I have yet to find one tweet where Lisa is in direct conversation with Hall (evidently @CalvinistJohn tagged Hall in his original tweet, so if you reply to the tweet, it retains all the people tagged unless you physically delete the names).
JD Hall jumps in on the conversation here:
https://twitter.com/PulpitAndPen/status/674620286059220993
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Now Lisa Cooper’s husband, Jordan, who happens to be a pastor, chimes in the conversation to defend his wife. (Jordan, good for you!)
https://twitter.com/PulpitAndPen/status/674623123275145217
https://twitter.com/PulpitAndPen/status/674623344969314304
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Here, Jordan is responding to @GSethDunn, and JD Hall responds back to Jordan.
https://twitter.com/PulpitAndPen/status/674631082914877440
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JD Hall believes that a husband should rule over wives. He is publicly rebuking a pastor for not controlling his wife’s behavior. Isn’t it interesting that JD Hall is going after this woman and her behavior and she did NOTHING wrong, yet who is the one with the behavioral issues?
Projection, people.
https://twitter.com/PulpitAndPen/status/674631509404332032
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Ceaseless berating? That is more projection, folks:
Psychological projection is a defense mechanism people subconsciously employ in order to cope with difficult feelings or emotions.Psychological projection involves projecting undesirable feelings or emotions onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings. Source
If anyone is a ceaseless berator (I made up that word), it would be JD Hall. Just ask Ergun Caner. You can’t ask Ergun Caner’s son, Braxton, he’s dead. JD Hall tweeted a few times to Braxton in a condescending fashion, which then brought a group of tweeters who ganged up on Braxton. Braxton clearly indicated he was done, but men continued hounding him about his lifestyle as a teenager, the way his girlfriend dressed, etc. Within weeks of this Twitter incident, Braxton committed suicide.
Back to Lisa, Jordan and JD Hall, if you’d like to skim through tweets for yourself, here are JD Hall’s recent conversations. Here are Lisa’s recent Twitter conversations. You can see if I missed any tweets directed to JD.
Is there a reason why I posted the photo of the Reformation Montana conference? You bet. It is commonly known that JD Hall behaves like a bully on Twitter, yet those public Christian leaders don’t seem to have a problem associating with him and speaking at his events.
JD Hall is pastor of an independent church with no one over him. (The elders whom he claimed were going to hold him accountable after the last public fiasco on Twitter have obviously failed.) These men, if they cared about Christ’s reputation, would have nothing to do with JD Hall. Remaining silent is being complicit.
JD Hall needs to knock it off, and those who claim to be Christian leaders need to put their big boy pants on, give up the Montana Reformation conference, and stop patting their bro on the back, for Christ’s sake.
Good grief. Enough already!
Spiritual Sounding Board 
JD Hall is a fat sack of sh&t. Why anyone pays any attention to him at all, I’ll never know. He’s an overweight clown and a congenitally stupid blowhard. If I ever meet him in person, it will take every ounce of willpower I possess not to ram his face through a plate glass window.
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Apologies to anyone who finds this offensive^^, but bloody hell I am sick of these dull-witted Reformed imbeciles.
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That reminds me of the bloke from my ex-church who kept emailing my husband when he had a problem with my behaviour. I offered to meet with him in person to discuss our differences, but apparently he wasn’t ‘man’ enough to do that…
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Wow. That first ad hominem attack from Pulpit and Pen (JD Hall) dropped my jaw. That is EXACTLY the kind of thing I’d get from my now ex-husband. And Lisa was graciously kind in pointing out everything she did, even gracious in her clarifications. She used facts to make her statements, speaking truth in love, as I read it, and was met with blatent hostility. My now ex-h used to do this so often that I eventually reached a point of stating that we needed to just use the facts and not ‘qualifiers’ (the word I chose to describe his adjectival attacks on me – “You’re so judgmental, unloving, dripping wife, nagging faucet,” etc.). It never happened. Like Hall above, he can only attack – whether at Lisa or her husband. (FWIW, I’m grateful to see a husband jump in and defend his wife. I’m not used to that, so it’s refreshing to witness.)
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Perhaps slightly OT, but I noticed the related post of JD Hall’s “confession” from the Fall of 2014 related to another man’s (pastor’s?) son’s suicide. Sheesh – his words are all self-aggrandizing. It’s false humility with a veneer of bravado. I notice Phil Johnson writes that Hall “bares his soul” in introducing the “confession.” I used to read Pyromaniacs (Phil’s group blog) now and again, but eventually tired of all the chest-beating and arrogant condescending attitudes.
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What a thug.
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Dash, your use of personal insults and threats of violence is no bueno. No better than what JD did
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I can’t help but hope we’re close to the breaking point with this guy. Meaning at some point in the near future he may just have a nervous breakdown or something, which might actually be a good thing for him. His reactions are nowhere close to proportional with what is actually being said to him here. It’s over the top force escalation – something he should know better than to do as a gun enthusiast. I have to wonder if his mind is tearing him apart inside – the pain of a thousand unresolved negative interactions and alienation of friends. Everything is a lashing out not against what is actually said, but what his mind is saying with what is said – like you said, a projection.
A soft answer turneth away wrath (not that she seemed remotely angry), I’ve heard. He’s not interested in turning it away. He wants her gagged. Stop the voices.
What a way to live. I pity him. I’m still infuriated that other people STILL give him a voice.
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As SR said: “I am also grateful to see a husband jump in and defend his wife”. The xh was also one with the attacks. In addition to nag, I was the devil carrying a Bible. Although, I completely disagree with JD Hall and his continued rants, good came from it. Satan has to be really PO’d right now.
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I agree with Govpappy. There is something very wrong with JD Hall and I think he is about to implode. His friends need to do an intervention and get him some help.
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paperthinhymn. AKA Dustin Germain. AKA friend of JD Hall.
Was wondering…
Are you still a friend of JD Hall?
You took the time to give Dash your opinion, correction…
About his thoughts toward JD Hall.
Did you take the time to give JD Hall your opinion, correction…
About his “ugly comments?”
Did you take the time to give the elders, who “serve” JD Hall…
Your opinion, correction… About his “ugly comments?”
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Great comment, Amos!
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Oh, JD, get over yourself. You are not that important of a person to be able to tell someone on Twitter how he should be “running his household.”
livingliminal – Perhaps if you told the guy you promised to bind your chest before meeting so not to tempt him he would have consented. But you have other lady parts that are equally tempting, so I doubt it. That’s what happens when guys like this see women only as sex objects. They fail to see women as human beings.
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Great article, Julie Anne!
“J.D. Hall Has Not Learned His Lesson on Twitter: Bully Behavior”
Yes – “Bully Behavior”
And bravo for Jordon Cooper who also called him on his behavior
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Amos, Good questions!!
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Dustin, if Dash had left the first comment by itself, I would have had issues. However, he clarified that he was responding in anger in the next comment. It’s important that SSB is like a sounding board and gives voice to expressions and feelings, especially when so many of us were told to dismiss our feelings and not allowed to talk.
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Hi Brenda
Good to hear from you. 😉
Be blessed, And continue to be a blessing…
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“JD Hall is pastor of an independent church with no one over him.”
There’s the problem right there.
I have learned not to trust any such “pastor”. They are de facto popes, only without the accompanying magisterium.
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Wonder if he is related to Dudley Hall, a NAR self appointed apostle in Dallas area?
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I’m sure that if a man had pointed out the “mistake” to JD he would have acknowledged it and made changes. But now his temper tantrum has me wondering if he intentionally made this “mistake” and was hoping no one would notice. Perhaps it’s time for Lisa Cooper to set up a male pseudonym account and see how men like JD respond to her helpful comments.
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Kathi, I have it on good authority that he blocked one of his long time close friends (On phone number terms), a man, for a gentle correction, very recently.
I think he’s truly losing it. And maybe he knows it.
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Hall has gone full Steven Anderson. I think it may be a good idea to try and ignore him from now on as best we can. He craves criticism; it validates his loopy “lone apostle” persona…
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She shows the fruit of the Spirit. He shows the fruit of the other guy.
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govpappy – I guess he feels like he is above everyone else. He’s perfectly willing and able to dish out criticism but can’t take it. That attitude will come back to bite him in the arse one day.
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If that bit of calm, constructive criticism from Mrs. Cooper was construed as “ceaseless berating strife” by JD Hall, I honestly fear for JD’s own wife. If she can’t bring a concern or complaint in a similar manner without being seen as a nagging, berating wife, needing to be “controlled” then one wonders what goes on in the Hall household.
How long before the RefMont speakers distance themselves from JD, like many of his other former colleagues have wisely done? I hope they do so soon and call this troubled man to repentance. By his own admission, JD has survived “two painful attempted coups” http://pulpitandpen.org/2015/09/19/why-god-has-likely-called-you-to-be-a-long-term-pastor/ It doesn’t sound like he has a healthy church or a healthy home.
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Did he specify how Jordan Cooper should do this? I mean, Domestic Discipline is acceptable in some of these circles.
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What JD needs to do is repent, find Jesus and humble himself. If he does not, sooner or later some real man will absolutely beat that arrogance out of him. And as all bullies, it would probably not take much to take care of him.
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As I said a year ago, JD Hall’s “confession” last read like the manifesto of a narcissist. I truly believe the man is an evil, malignant, vicious narcissist and a coward. When I think of Jesus and I think of JD Hall and his middle aged spread and his little pulpit in the 40 person conference room at the dingy hotel where he holds his state reformed conferences, I imagine that Jesus would overturn the little pulpit and run his fat butt straight out the doors of the Tic Toc Inn or the Super 8 or wherever.
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You know what, Dustin Germain? I think you need to stop defending abusive superapostles like JD Hall and start defending the ones whom Jesus defended., Maybe then you will start to see a bit of truth. Would you criticize Paul for saying the Pharisees would be better if they simply castrated themselves? Anyway, I’m probably speaking to the wind., I don’t expect a response from one who would even indirectly defend a coward like Hall, cowards defend cowards..
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Yeah I’m not holding my breath for anyone in the Grace To You possee to do anything about JD Hall but they do have a responsibility here. Tired of this kind of nonsense. Bet they’d flip a lip if someone treated their wife or family like that. (JD regularly makes it personal with anyone who criticizes his way of thinking- he has referenced my husband in his Bully Bunker, as he did publicly with JA’s and Janet Mefferd’s on Twitter.) But of course JD’s too smart to try that on for size. He knows on which side his bread is buttered. He’s well aware of what he does; it’s calculated, and he doesn’t just “have a bad day”. It’s called abusiveness and he’s been long disqualified from ministry. I no longer respect anyone who tacitly supports him despite his repeated bullying. This whole mess is serious wickedness on the part of his enablers as well as his own well-documented abuse. Distancing oneself quietly after supporting such a person publicly is not enough; actually calling sin sin and warning the Body is necessary. If that happens please could someone let me know on FB, because I’m off Twitter because of nonsense like this. When the “Christians” are crueller than the world it’s not worth the spiritual and emotional cost.
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I confess that when I began reading this exchange, particularly Lisa Cooper’s gracious note of editorial correction, I was wholly unprepared for JD Hall’s unwarranted, vicious attack on Lisa – and then her husband who appropriately rose to defend her!
If we know a tree by its fruit, then JD hall is rotten to the root.
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Melody.
I know you are off Twitter, but this should be tweeted:
When the “Christians” are crueller than the world it’s not worth the spiritual and emotional cost.
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JD Hall is a real con man. Nobody should be listening to anything he says for any reason.
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I don’t think Hall is losing it at all. I believe we are simply seeing the real character of the man. Be should not be a pastor.
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Brenda-feel free to use that as a tweet! If you want to cite me, you can link to my comment from above, but if it doesn’t fit it isn’t necessary. 🙂 I may go back on Twitter someday; right now I have too much going on to deal with the “Christians” on Twitter who randomly jump you for having a (even a perceived) different view from them. Or those who write you off over misunderstanding of your beliefs and judge you based on stereotypes rather than see you as an individual. Or faux leaders who support bullies while censuring those who point out abuse as worse for actually caring about people if those people don’t believe just like them. Kudos to those who can deal with that kind of nonsense graciously. 😉
With regard to my previous comment, I do think that ministries need to get on the ball with the fact that bullying of any kind is evil, and if they don’t expel evil people from their groups they won’t continue to get support from the people of God. They might have a nice little intellectual pastors’ book club (Reformation Montana), but they won’t have true sheep to minister to who are growing in grace and truth if they continue to try to replace the Shepherd’s place in the people’s lives. This constant trying to control people on Twitter indicates IMO a serious issue otherwise known as a god-complex. I have yet to see any true humility and repentance from JD Hall, and unfortunately he’s not the only one like that out there; he’s just one of the most obvious.
Like I said, you can quote me. Or not. But I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees this. God bless.
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“…should not be a pastor.”
No one should be a pastor the way JD Hall, John Piper, Mark Driscoll, any of them define “pastor”, because the way they define it does not exist except for Jesus Christ Himself.
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“I have yet to see any true humility and repentance from JD Hall, and unfortunately he’s not the only one like that out there; he’s just one of the most obvious.
Like I said, you can quote me. Or not. But I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees this. God bless.”
From the start I saw no repentance whatsoever in his “repentance”. I saw the words of a hateful, self-obsessed, malignantly narcissistic predator. In short, a human being given over to evil. I said it from the start and have not deviated from that position. I truly believe JD Hall is one of those whom Jesus warned us about, who might deceive even the elect. Fortunately, his schtick is so poorly conceived and he is so lacking in competence that he is able to deceive very few.
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What a great advertisement for the comp doctrine. I love how it came out in the open and love how you saved it, Julie Ann, for posterity.
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wow. This guy responds to a woman pointing out truth by saying, ‘woman you have no right to voice an opinion’
What a catch!
That conference line up is one big Loadship Salvation fest.
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NJ. I’m 100% with your comment.
They usurp the role of the Great Shepherd and carry on like white washed tombs.
I believe these are those who our Lord would say, ‘get away from me. I never knew you!’
Always searching the Scriptures… Never quite ‘getting it’.
These guys are lovers of Theology. Not lovers of God and certainly not lovers of men.
Indeed, ‘by their fruits you shall know them’.
False prophets. The lot of them
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I have a great affection for JD as a brother, but we are no longer close, no.
“You took the time to give Dash your opinion, correction…
About his thoughts toward JD Hall.
Did you take the time to give JD Hall your opinion, correction…
About his “ugly comments?”
I responded to the personal attacks that dash did. if he would have relegated it to critizicing jd’s methods and actions, i wouldn’t have said anything- same as i have not sought to correct anyone else in this thread who is frustrated with jd. as a side not to julie, regardless of dash’s follow up comment, i still find it crude and offensive. if i were to call someone here a “fat bitch” for example, [which i would never do] i would expect to be excoriated and skinned alive, and rightly so. me rationalizing it by saying that i was frustrated should not be accepted as legitimate reason.if dash is not a christian- then all the power to him, but if he is, i don’t believe that is cool at all.
“Did you take the time to give the elders, who “serve” JD Hall… Your opinion, correction… About his “ugly comments?”
No. i don’t usually believe in the practice of going to people’s elders to seek to hold them accountable for a mans’ actions, in the way i think you are suggesting. i would rather deal with the man directly.
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“Did you take the time to give JD Hall your opinion, correction…
About his “ugly comments?”
yes, I have made my thoughts to jd known with some of his behaviors
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you should know one thing about me, is that i always respond to my critics, in whichever way they desire. in this instance, you’ll have to be specific here. where have i defended jd against true accusations? i will defend him against false charges, absolutely, in the same way i would anyone, even my enemies who are being unfairly [key word] maligned
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I haven’t read this blog in a while, but thought I’d pop in to see what’s up. Wow! Funny thing – I was browsing JDs blog yesterday and read the article in question on my phone, for two reasons: one, because I’ve had some personal interaction with Jordan Hall and frankly the concept of being “pastoral” in his dealings with people seems, shall we say, out of his skill set. So I was kind of intrigued about what he would write on the subject – sort of like I’d love to read Donald Trump’s manifesto on humility or Obama on the virtues of conservatism. And my initial reaction was “wow, he actually did write this!” and it took me a minute to figure out he didn’t. Which made me kind of regret going through the article, of which I remember nothing anymore. Getting old.
Anyway, made the kerfuffle sort of intriguing to me, but really sad.
I agree with JD generally theologically. No, let me rephrase that. I’m reformed, as he claims to be. Let me assure you, the poison is not in the cup of reformed theology, however badly you may want it to be. The filth that spewed out of him on this event is not unlike the garbage thrown at me (though I’m not on social media hence its not public, nor will I say more than this to make it so) or several of my dear friends who’ve received similar treatment.
I see he and James White have parted ways. Good for Dr. White. I hope the other good men he borrows his fame from will do what they ought to do, and ought to have begun to do long ago for his soul’s sake, and as some of you have already suggested, for his family’s sake, not to mention the dear folks who call him their pastor, and try to turn him from his arrogance and pride, and the monster inside that feeds on feelings of martyrdom.
It’s more difficult for quiet, unassuming, lowly ministers of the gospel to be the face of reformed theology and ministry than it is for blustery, bombastic Luther- types, but for the sake of all of us, I hope Halls sheer idiocy will be either overcome by the still, small, voice, which I prefer, or that a truly righteous man with an equally blustery character (read “Paul” in Gal. 1) will rise up and end this young man’s course of self-destruction, which is sadly a course he won’t travel without taking out plenty of other innocent Lisa’s.
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Oh, I should also say that for the record I think where JD’s coming from with the whole subservient wives thing is ridiculous. He sounds patriarchal. I’m not egalitarian, but I’m complimentarian in such a way I’m almost positive my wife thinks I’m egal. Though I can’t say that even after 16 years of wedded bliss we’ve ever discussed it.
Just thought I should throw that disclaimer in…
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No Dustin, you’ve played the leveling game which you know so well. You have absolutely no right to say that Dash, being genuinely outraged and using strong words against a sick bully is no better than said bully.
Dustin, you are wrong. You are also full of unadulterated crap and you owe Dash an apology–provided you’re man enough to make it.
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I find when I listen to Mr. Hall’s shows on mute or read his tweets / articles with the monitor off he makes a great deal of sense. But that is just me.
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Melody, I signed up for Twitter, but have not used it. I didn’t want to quote anyone improperly and it just took too much thought to figure out how to do it successfully. I felt it better to leave it alone and not follow anyone. If God wanted me there, He’d give me the skills to write there. : ) I am glad for those He gives the ability….Yes, you Julie Anne, to fight those that can’t see their own hearts.
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TD, it’s cool, I don’t need any apologies from Dustin or whatever his name is. I don’t mind being decried as a bully. In fact, I don’t mind being informed repeatedly that I’m going to “burn in Hell for all eternity” or any of the other rhetorical crap that gets chucked at me. Fine with me! The sooner the better.
In fact, I will do all you reformed f%%keads a straight-up favor and seal the deal for you: No I am not a Christian and I don’t want to be. F**K YOUR GOD. I’ll gladly burn in Hell for all eternity if it means never having to deal with you assholes ever again.
If Hell is at the opposite end of the universe from the “Heaven” you maggots intend to spend eternity in, then I CAN’T GET TO HELL SOON ENOUGH, YOU PISSANT COWARD MOTHERF%%KERS. Send me there right now, I’m ready with bells on. You can even kill me if you want to, you’d be doing me a favor. I honestly don’t care. Jackasses.
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It was not my intention to level everything- but rather point out that what dash said would rank up there with the worse of what jd said- much more in terms of pure insulting terms. i did not intend to imply that dash was a bully, and i apologize if it came off that way
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I did not intend to communicate that I thought you were a bully, and I’m sorry if that’s how it came across. It also sounds like you’ve had some rough experiences with people calling themselves christians- if you want ‘d be willing to listen. I know we can be a pretty pathetic lot at times, and we need to be much more honest about that,
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Dustin, have you ever participated other “pulpiteers” in calling supervisors, emailing board members, tweeting at denominational officials or notifying town locals about an alleged theological or otherwise difference with the end goal of removing someone from their position, ministry or otherwise?
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One more thought I had worth sharing: see, I don’t think anyone would be so appalled at JD’s most recent behavior if it were not an established pattern for which he is unrepentant. We could chalk it up to a bad day if he did it once or maybe twice. But this thing is cyclical and seems to happen particularly when he is publicly held accountable for something he has said or done. Saying an isolated sorry no longer cuts it in this case: no one can trust him anymore. His friends need to warn him as a brother and disassociate until he owns it and faces consequences like finding a non-ministry job.
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I didn’t say “it was your intention to level everything.” I said you were playing the leveling game with Dash by saying his behavior was no better than Hall’s, I said it was a game you know well. Dustin, I think when you tell someone “Well you’re no better, buddy!”, it sure as heck should be expected that people will take you at your word and assume you mean to equate the behavior, which you absolutely did.
And to punctuate it all, you give an “apology” that JD Hall and Mark Driscoll would be proud of: “I did not intend to communicate that I thought you were a bully, and I’m sorry if that’s how it came across.”
Basically, no apology at all. None whatsoever. Worse than an insult, because what you communicated is that you didn’t intend to do what you danged well intended to do all along, and essentially, if there’s a problem, it’s a miscommunication, or perhaps a misunderstanding on Dash’s part, i.e., “I’m sorry, Dash, that you just took things the wrong way.”
What you have proven by your response is just how cowardly you are. You just talk bilge, man, nothing whatsoever like Jesus. No wonder Dash is in such a rage, the people round him who claim to be following Jesus parse their words always to make themselves look good and superior and holy. Dash doesn’t need your ungodly mealy mouth, he needs the real Jesus, do him a favor and don’t be “willing to listen”.
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JD Hall’s defensive behavior is so out of proportion in regards to Lisa Cooper’s corrections. I believe his response comes from a poor education, feelings of persecution, and arrested emotional development. When a person lashes out with personal insults towards someone who has objectively pointed out an error, well the one making personal attacks has already lost the arguement.
Hall seems unable deal with constructive criticism from an adult perspective, but immediately goes into attack mode using outdated constructs. Hall reads any dissent from his perspective as a threat. The only valid view for him is his own point of view and the small group who agree with him.
Hall’s opinions are a waste of time and any attention he receives (positive or negative) only fuels the fire. Believe me, there is nothing to see here!
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I think what Hall’s response comes from is known as narcissistic rage. The arrested development angle is an accurate one, I believe, because he comes across like a two year old from whom one has just wrested a favorite toy–a paunchy, middle aged emotional two year old with a tiny little bully pulpit in a backwater on the plains, the mouse that roared.
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Dustin
You say…
“I have a great affection for JD as a brother, but we are no longer close, no.”
Was wondering…
Do you have “any” affection, at all, for JD as a “pastor?”
Bridget writes…
“He should NOT be a pastor.”
And it seems quite a few agree with Bridget.
Do you, Dustin, also agree with this about JD?
“He should NOT be a pastor?”
Was wondering…
What is your opinion, correction, for JD Hall…
About his “ugly comments?”
Eph 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness,
but rather reprove them.
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Not with them, no. I have done it with two people, as far as I can recall. One is Ergun Caner, which I still do to this day, another is Gretta Vosper, an openly atheist pastrix in the United Church of Canada, and another is a man named Brad Jersak.
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I don’t know anything about the woman pastor but I have noticed that people who disapprove of women in the ministry use the term pastrix. No one else does.
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I don’t agree with your assessment of the situation, unfortunately.
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I have no issue with women in ministry, and love that my sisters in Christ get involved and serve others. I do however, have an issue with women being pastors. As far as the term pastrix, i heard it one one day and thought it apropos. Though now that you mention it, I think you’re right in that I only hear it from people who have issues with women pastors. that’s an astute observation- never thought of that before.
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***When I said “no better than what JD DID” I was referring to the Lisa thing, specifically, not the sum of his misdeeds.
that apology I gave is wholly appropriate if indeed that is the truth. if you assume evil and uncharitable motivations from me, and presume to know the motivations of my heart, then yeah, it doesn’t work. but i like to think that that most people would know there is no reason to do so, that i am sincere, and for that reason, i think it works well in communicating my intentions, which i expanded on in the first sentence ^^^ ***
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lest someone accuse me of bailing- I have to go to work now, but will be back on late this evening to answer any other questions that are posed. have a good day, peeps 🙂
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Dustin – You just sound like a liar. One who lies to the one person to whom he should never lie: himself.
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you’ll have to point to something specific i can reflect one, td142
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about six years ago our church became infested with young males touting the words law and gospel, reformed, apostate and other phrases they all had a favorite theologian idol that they worshiped and were generally calling themselves Calvinist on 3 points they didn’t agree with Calvin in regards to limited atonement. It got so bad that our pastor had to leave under duress. At the time the elder board had a graduate from the Masters College on it he was strong enough to have a unaccredited man in the Church he liked installed as the pastor this man was not prepared to create his own sermons so he preached reading John MacArthur sermons. If someone opposed that particular board member he called them apostate and the church apostate. JD Hall fits the profile perfectly of the young men in that church during that time I have seen many online profiles that fit JD’s profile perfectly It makes me wonder how they all came together with the same mantra and cult like fervor.
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They all follow like-minded leaders. After a while, they all sound like each other. Their cult-like fervor keeps men like JD Hall, CJ Mahaney, Mark Driscoll in leadership. Their doctrine is their idol. They have lost their first love. We read about folks like these in the Bible.
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Friends, I want to thank you for your continued support for those who have been harmed by church leaders. As can be easily seen in this thread, there are strong emotions and words that come out when we are reminded of abusive behavior. Some may feel uncomfortable with the intensity of the raw emotion and colorful language expressed, but yet you remain, you do not judge, but instead show grace and support. That makes me teary-eyed.
Where can we go to express these deep hurts and pain where we will be understood and believed? There are not too many places. It is safe here and so we need to expect it from time to time. It’s better to let it out here rather than to remain bottled. I believe that if we don’t allow ourselves to express pain, it will come out in other ways: health issues, anger, relational issues, addictions, etc.
Thanks again!
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I pity his wife. It would be nice if like-minded men had a mark on their foreheads, to warn women off from associating with them, especially to warn women that these are men who would be (how did Paul phrase it?) better off not marrying.
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From Melody: “His friends need to warn him as a brother and disassociate until he owns it and faces consequences like finding a non-ministry job.”
The silence from those Brothers who still, by their silence, endorse JD Hall, is deafening, particularly those who are on Twitter and have been tagged and should be aware of what’s going on. Chris Rosebrough, for example, as even been asked out-right, on his Facebook page, if he will call JD to account, and he’s not responded.
Chris Rosebrough, Phil Johnson, and Mike Abendroth, will you hold JD Hall to account for his ongoing words and actions, which are abusive, or will you continue to stay silent, and by your silence, endorse this behavior as acceptable?
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Julie-Anne: ” Their cult-like fervor keeps men like JD Hall, CJ Mahaney, Mark Driscoll in leadership.”
According to JD’s own Pulpit & Pen blog, his Montana church has tried to remove him twice. That has been confirmed to me by an ex-member. That they failed I suppose continues to feed JD’s martyr complex as the wronged one in all of this.
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Dustin,
I was taken a bit aback by Dash’s language, too. Especially the personal remarks about Hall. But my reaction to Hall’s words on Twitter was more than just “taken aback” — his behaviour absolutely beggars belief.
I’ve heard much, much worse directed at other cultish leaders than what Dash has said here. I’m thinking in particular of the current head of Hubbard’s Cult of Greed and Power. I occasionally stop by Tony Orgeta’s excellent blog on the subject, and while Tony himself is very civil and professional, the commenters there will call David Miscavige every name in the book.
A lot of those insults tend to make fun of his height (or rather, his lack thereof), which even Tony has noted is not directly relevant to the abuses of which Miscavige stands accused. However, one of those accusations is physical violence and verbal abuse towards his own underlings. This has led to the speculation that he has something of an inferiority complex, and compensates for his lack of height and education by domineering. If Miscavige weren’t so over-the-top abusive and hateful (and some of the commenters have been personally victimized by him), Tony might clamp down a bit the personal remarks against him.
I suspect that’s part of what’s driving some of the anger here against Hall. His reaction to Lisa is so irrational and chauvinistic, one has to wonder what’s driving it. Self-consciousness about his own weight might very well be a factor. And although it’s not very charitable to psychoanalyze a complete stranger, I’m afraid Hall brings it on himself by putting his dysfunction on unabashed public display, instead of getting whatever help he needs.
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Yet another blessing to add to my list today…
Jordan Hall is not my pastor.
My pastor is a great guy, and I hope all of you have the joy of having or finding a leader who is emotionally healthy and spiritually mature.
Merry Christmas to my online friends.
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Yes, Julie Anne, I agree, JD Hall and similar people have completely lost their first love.
In fact they have no love at all — except love for their in-group.
Jesus said loving your own peeps is no credit to you. Loving your enemies is.
That’s how we know Hall and his ilk are noisy gongs or clanging cymbals.
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SKiJ,
Well said.
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skij, i appreciate the thoughts, but i am extremely wary of psychoanalyzing people and don’t like to speculate on people’s motivations. Here is a question though- as Christians, when other people, either believer or non believer, say harsh, personal insults about our brothers and sisters in Christ [or for those who don’t believe this is the case with jd] another human being in general, ought we not to stand up and defend them? Or is the standard we’ve come to adopt that as long as the person is frustrated and upset, that it’s ok to say these things, and it’s not virtuous to stand up to where the vitriol is being pointed? not saying you feel this way, but simply pointing out my mindset. like i said, if the discussion that jd was being unloving or foolish or uinwarranted or hurtful in his comments, that’s fine and fair enough. if it’s that he’s a “fat sack of shit”, that’s undoubtedly going to get defended and rebuked, whether i am on good terms with jd or not
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“Tweetie Pie (@Sing_His_Song)
Side note, why do you have me blocked on twitter? I think it was because of I asked you why you have been calling out JD for a long time, while at the same time conversely defending Ergun Caner, but I really can’t remember. I ask because it’s pretty rare that people block me- i only know of a small handful, and was wondering if there was a way I could get off that list?
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” Dustin
You say…
“I have a great affection for JD as a brother, but we are no longer close, no.”
Was wondering…
Do you have “any” affection, at all, for JD as a “pastor?”
**not entirely sure what you mean by this. if you could expand that would be helpful 🙂
Bridget writes…
“He should NOT be a pastor.”
And it seems quite a few agree with Bridget.
Do you, Dustin, also agree with this about JD?
“He should NOT be a pastor?”
I don’t know enough about JD to know how he functions as a pastor and the role he has in his church and how that all works out. I think people, even extremely falliable ones, can be pastors.I don’t know enough about how he shepherds his flock. I think it possible to treat them in a wholly different way than he does the online community. such compartmentalizing can and does occur- i’ve experienced it in my own life- i also don’t know how much of his brusque personality bleeds into those interactions. I do believe him to be tremendously intelligent and gifted in preaching, more so than probably anyone i know. but would I want him as my pastor- or would i submit myself to him? No, I would not. Not at this point in his life, though in the future, if the Lord did a great work, then yes I could see that, but a lot would have to change, and a lot of time would have to pass.
Was wondering…
What is your opinion, correction, for JD Hall…
About his “ugly comments?”
I have spoken to JD several time in private, and have plead with him to find a way to be at peace with himself and with all men, and to stop fighting the battles that the Lord does not need him to fight.
Eph 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness,
but rather reprove them.
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Paperthinhymn: “Side note, why do you have me blocked on twitter? I think it was because of I asked you why you have been calling out JD for a long time, while at the same time conversely defending Ergun Caner, but I really can’t remember. I ask because it’s pretty rare that people block me- i only know of a small handful, and was wondering if there was a way I could get off that list?”
Hi Dustin –
Yes I blocked you during the Ergun Caner thing – what JD and his friends failed to see, and perhaps I didn’t make clear – was that while I didn’t defend Ergun’s theology or sins – actually I tried to steer clear of that issue since I didn’t know the man well enough to know his storied past and therefore couldn’t comment on it – I did defend his right as a human, and brother in Christ, to be treated with Christian charity. I got into it the day JD was tweeting Braxton, and I mentioned that I thought he was being a bully, and maybe he should stop – and JD Hall promptly blocked me. I let it drop until Braxton committed suicide. Believe it or not: When JD publicly repented for that, and, for a time, seemed genuinely broken over what happened, I preached forgiveness in the Christian groups I belonged to, and, lost friends over it. That’s a little known fact, and I doubt that JD Hall would care even if he knew. I told people to forgive him, and there were those that thought I was crazy and unfriended me, and one group even kicked me out.
And so, when JD went back to harassing Ergun Caner about 6 weeks after Braxton’s death, I began to speak out in protest, and of course, JD’s friends from the Bunker began to swarm me on Twitter to defend JD. Since you were, at the time, still in the Bunker and one of JD’s close friends, I didn’t trust you and blocked you.
If things have changed, by all means let me know. But I still have a distrust of JD’s friends, for good reason, since he detests me. One reason for that is that I dare to associate with the “Survivor blogger Gals” eg. Julie-Anne and Dee Parsons, and I’m friends with Ms. Karen Swallow-Prior, therefore I must be a raging liberal feminist with a wimpy husband who can’t control me.
I hate blocking people, since it cuts off communication, but I’ve had to block those that troll me. Not saying you did, and I don’t think you did, but I think in your case it was pre-emptive. If I’ve misjudged you, please forgive me.
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Dustin, as I said earlier, this place is a sounding board for people who have been hurt by spiritual bullies. Those who have been reading here for a while know Dash’s back story. We are very fortunate to still have him with us today. I’m grateful every time I see him comment. This is not the place to challenge or correct someone who is responding in anger based on their abuse. Please drop it. Feel free to DM me or call me if you like. Thanks 🙂
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Anon2, Merry Christmas to you and all here. It is good to hear that you are Spiritually healthy. Jesus is the only true Shepherd. Glad to hear of those feeding the sheep that are healthy, mature and not leading the sheep astray.
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Dustin, it is interesting that you believe that “extreme fallible” men can be pastors but no women, no matter how learned, wise, and gifted they might be.
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Brenda R – thanks for your kind wishes. Blessings to you and yours! -Anon2
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My 5th grade teacher would make a far better pastor than any of these guys. (Of course, she’s a Democrat, but the idea of her sending JDH, et al,into a conniption makes me want to giggle).
She is a keen lady, & a true Christian. She is also one tough cookie when it comes to dealing with bullies…..Oh gosh. Wish we could all see the look on JD’s face as he creeps off into the bushes to cry.
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I read the article, yet none of the comments, so please bear this in mind before assessing my comment so as to not offend anyone’s response.
I used to listen faithfully to J.D. Hall and am deeply repentant and remorseful for following him like a cult member. I held his type of theology, teachings, and lifestyle as an idol before me and believed every word he said as his version of the gospel truth. I placed him as a god, like other pastors and their versions of Bible teachings, first in my life instead of reading, studying, and meditating upon the Scriptures for myself, allowing God’s Holy Spirit to personally minister to me. I was wrong in trusting preachers like J.D. Hall in pointing me to Jesus, for the words and actions that I see and hear coming out of his mouth DO NOT clearly lead me to the cross of humility and repentance, but utter disgust.
I have learned from Jesus, not these preachers whose voices sound like shallow gongs, that the ground all the foot of that cross is level for co-heirs in Christ, where there is no room for lording it over others.
A word of advice to J.D. from another wo-man who loves Jesus as her own, with your teachings thank-you very much…..please go and wash your mouth out with soap for you are disgracing the Body of Jesus, the Christ. Amen.
I am not afraid of men such as these.
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One final pondering thought;
The real man in the moral of this very sad story is……………..
The pastor defending and bringing honor upon his wife. May our LORD Jesus richly bless this couple.
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Katy
Great comment. 😉
Specially this…
“I have learned from Jesus,
not these preachers whose voices sound like shallow gongs,
that the ground at the foot of that cross
is level for co-heirs in Christ,
where there is no room for lording it over others.”
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Katy — nicely said. These guys emulate the Pharisees not Jesus. They spend their time circling the wagons and protecting their little groupthink clique rather that reaching out to the lost. (Of course, when they do reach out, it’s only to make converts who are as much “sons of the devil” as they are.)
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Dustin
Thanks for engaging and trying to answer the many questions.
I do have a challenge with understanding…
And believing, this answer you gave…
When I asked you…
Do you, Dustin, also agree with this about JD?
“He should NOT be a pastor?”
You began your answer with…
“I don’t know enough about JD
to know how he functions as a pastor
and the role he has in his church
and how that all works out.
I think people, even extremely fallible ones, can be pastors.”
====== Tears ======
😦 😦 😦
I ask you to reconsider your last line, extremely fallible ones.
For me, that is a major cause of “Abuse,” extremely fallible pastors.
And, I’ve met way too many of, extremely fallible pastors. 😦
And – Is that what “the Bible” says?
extremely fallible believers can be pastors?
Doesn’t that sound dangerous to you?
Is that what the Qualifications for “elder/overseer” says?
If I remember, understand, correctly… Both you and JD Hall would say…
“the Bible is the Infallible Word of God?” Yes?
Why, now, is the Bible NOT “your” standard?
Why, now, don’t you “know enough about JD?”
Why, now, don’t you “know enough how he functions as a pastor?”
To answer? From the scriptures? And NOT what “you” think?
You do know enough about the Qualifications, and JD Hall,
To know if he Qualifies according to the Infallible Word of God?” Yes?
So, let me ask the question this way…
Do you, Dustin, also agree with this about JD?
“He should NOT be a pastor?”
According to the Qualifications in the Infallible Word of God?
According to the Qualifications in 1 Tim 3:1-7, and Titus 1:5-9?
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And Dustin
If you’re NOT familiar with the Qualifications…
Here is a closer look at just three qualifications for elder/overseer from Titus.
1 – For a bishop (overseer) “Must Be” Blameless. 2 – Just. 3 – Holy.
Titus 1:5-8 KJV
5 …ordain elders in every city…
6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife,
having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7 For a bishop “must be” blameless,
as the steward of God; not self willed,
not soon angry, (Doesn’t this one, alone, dis-qalify JD??)
not given to wine, no striker, (And this, contentious, quarrelsome person.)
not given to filthy lucre;
8 a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men,
sober, ( And this, a sound mind, self-controlled,)
just, holy, temperate;
1 – Must Be
Strongs #1163, die. – It is necessary (as binding).
Thayer’s – necessity established by the counsel and decree of God.
This must be is the same Greek word. – You must be born again. Jn 3:7
Seems to be a small word but very important. Yes?
1 – Blameless
Strongs #410 anegkletos – unaccused, irreproachable, blameless.
Thayers – cannot be called into account, unreproveable, unaccused.
Dictionary – Without fault, innocent, guiltless, not meriting censure.
2 – Just
Strongs #1342 – dikaios {dik’-ah-yos} from 1349;
Thayers – righteous, observing divine laws, innocent, faultless, guiltless.
3 – Holy
Strongs #3741 – hosios {hos’-ee-os}
Thayers – undefiled by sin, free from wickedness,
religiously observing every moral obligation.
Now that’s three tough qualifications for pastor/elder/overseers. Yes?
How many pastor/elder/overseers today, who honestly examine themselves, seriously considering these three qualifications, can see themselves as Blameless, Just and Holy, innocent, without fault, above reproach, undefiled by sin, and thus qualify to be an pastor/leader/overseer? And, if they can see themself as blameless? Is that pride? And no longer without fault? 😉
If WE, His Ekklesia, His Church, His Sheep…
Take seriously the many tough Qualifications in 1 Tim 3:1-6, and Titus 1:5-9…
The number of Biblically Qualified pastor/leader/overseers is quite small. 😉
So – Do you, Dustin, also agree with this about JD?
“He should NOT be a pastor?”
According to the Qualifications in the Infallible Word of God?
According to the Qualifications in 1 Tim 3:1-7, and Titus 1:5-9?
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Thanks A. Amos Love for that note of encouragement. I have learned the hard way through much suffering from ‘religious men’ pretending to be ‘great men of god,’ that the Jesus of our Bibles, treated and responded to the women of His day much differently than fallen man did and still does today.
“Lord of LORDS” does not refer to man, but Jesus……but you already know that! Love you A. Amos Love……keep ministering to those of us who are hungry for more of Christ.
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Amen A. Amos Love and Anonymous 2,
Preach it and teach it!
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And Dustin
Here are ten more Qualities for ALL WE, His Sheep, His Disciples…
That I now apply to those who “say” they are…
pastor/elder/overseers…
Since elders are to be examples to the flock… Yes?
Are these so-called “Titled” pastor/leader/reverends…
Living Examples of…
1 – NOT lording it over “God’s heritage?” 1 Pet 5:3 KJV
2 – Lowliness of mind? Phil 2:3 KJV
3 – Esteeming others “better” than themselves? Phil 2:3 KJV
4 – Submitting “One to Another?” Eph 5:21 KJV, 1 Pet 5:5 KJV
5 – Prefering others before themselves? Rom 12:10 KJV
6 – By love “Serve one another?” Gal 5:13 KJV
7 – Laying down their lives for the brethren? 1 John 3:16 KJV
8 – NOT speaking of themselves, NOT seeking their glory? John 7:18 KJV
9 – NOT “Exercising Authority” like the Gentiles?” Mark 10:42-43. KJV
10 – Being clothed with humility? 1 Pet 5:5 KJV
10 – Humility – a modest, or low opinion of ones own importance.
Now, that sounds like folks I would enjoy hanging out with. Yes?
Does this sound like many pastor/leader/reverends that you know? 😉
Having, “a modest, or low opinion of ones own importance?” 😉
The number of pastor/elder/leader/reverends; Who actually teach, and practice these 10 – Who practice ‘NOT lording it over “God’s heritage?” – Who practice “Submitting one to another” – Who practice “NOT speaking of themselves, NOT seeking their glory.” – Who are “Clothed with humility” having “a modest or low view of ones own importance,” is quite Small… Infinitesimal… 😉
How’s JD, doin wit these 10? 😉
Maybe that’s why, the only “ONE” in the Bible,
Who called Himself, or had the “Title/Position,” Shepherd/Leader – Is…
{{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}
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Hall’s behavior is deplorable and sexist.
I think we all have days where we lose our tempers and are rude to people IRL or on the internet, but this looks like a daily to weekly occurrence for him.
Hall seems to have a lot of anger, and he regularly lashes out on people on the internet, and sometimes stalks or harasses them. This guy should probably lay off social media, and I don’t think he is fit to be a preacher.
He was already in trouble in the past for tangling with and harassing with the teen-aged son of one of his adult theological opponents, which is immature and inappropriate behavior. He was strongly taken to task for that by many Christian bloggers. He seemed to show remorse at the time for that, laid low for a few months, but here he is, up to his old behavior.
I don’t see anything in the woman’s tweet to him that warranted such a strong backlash. I’d like to say, maybe he was just having a bad day and was already cranky, but I’ve seen this guy get nasty with other people before.
I think the thing I find most troubling and abhorrent about this incident is the mindset behind it, the Christian gender complementarian perspective that assumes that God wants Christian men to view women, wives especially, as being their property, or as dogs to be trained and made to mind by their husband.
Hall responds to the husband of the woman in question by telling him to “control his wife” or “make your wife shut up” (I forget Hall’s exact phrasing, but the sentiment is similar).
Hall will not even deal with the woman as a human being in her own right, but talks about her as though she is a child whose daddy figure (her husband) should make her behave.
Hall therefore infantilizes grown women, something I’ve noticed a lot of Christian gender complementarians or patriarchalists do quite often.
Complementarian Men like Hall have very low views of women, despite their frequent bluster in their blogs to respecting women, and to declaring that a wife is the man’s glory and so on.
They do not regards women as being separate persons also made fully in God’s image, worthy of being respected in their own rights.
They cannot seem to view women apart from relation to some man – a husband, father, brother, male preacher. It’s absolutely sexist and sickening and has no place in Christianity.
Anyway, this entire incident reveals Hall’s deeply ingrained sexism against women, which I’ve no doubt he probably rationalizes and justifies by use of gender complementarian thought processes and/or hermeneutics.
And I repeat: this guy is not qualified to be a preacher, and he should really lay off the internet, at least social media. He also needs to reexamine his views of women and how he treats them. Because he’s doing a p-poor job at it.
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Marsha said,
Excellent point, Marsha.
There is something very odd about gender complementarians that they will defend dirt ball men, and/or men who are obviously not qualified to be preachers being preachers, but won’t allow for even the best of women to be preachers.
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Oh me oh my, that Ergun Caner story.
I don’t agree with Caner’s deceptions (he lied about being Muslim or something or other, according to sites I read long ago), – however:
J D Hall buddies are oddly obsessed with Caner the way 15 year old girls are obsessed with Justin Bieber or One Direction.
The absolute, unrelenting hatred, obsession with, Caner and bringing Caner down is very unseemly and weird. The Caner detractors end up looking worse than Caner.
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I disagree with the bad day theory on the following points:
On my worst days, I don’t take out my day on others like he did. I just don’t. If I’m slightly short with my child in person due to being pressed on all sides or for time or whatever, I immediately catch myself, apologize, and tell her why I wasn’t able to fully attend as she was speaking or whatever. But I catch myself in the moment. As a leader of Christ’s people, he should exhibit the humility to know what he’s doing even in the moment and step back from anger, if it’s not righteous anger (which this was not).
If he were having an off day, he would come back the next day and say, “You know what? I was wrong and I apologize.” I see none of that.
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You’re right, Still Reforming. He is still defending himself in his private Bunker, and still blaming Lisa. She’s the bad person in this scenario. Shame on a woman to ever publicly criticize JD Hall.
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@ Still Reforming
I never said that Hall was just having a bad day and his behavior was excused.
I actually said in my post:
….but this [snapping at people in anger] looks like a daily to weekly occurrence for him [J D Hall].
Hall seems to have a lot of anger, and he regularly lashes out on people on the internet, and sometimes stalks or harasses them. This guy should probably lay off social media, and I don’t think he is fit to be a preacher.
@ Still Reforming said
I’m not like that, either.
I have a verbally abusive sister who gets angry at her boyfriend, job, boss, neighbor and takes it out on me. She’s been doing this to me for years.
Not only is it not in my nature to not usually take my frustrations out on another person, but I know what it feels like to be a victim of it (thanks to my sister), so I try to watch myself and not kick the dog because the boss ticked me off.
I rarely to never get angry at Person X and then turn around and take it on on Person Z.
I was not defending or excusing Hall in my post at all.
I was saying that Hall’s behavior was incredibly sexist, rude, and he should not be a preacher, nor should he be on social media.
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Hiya Daisy,
I wasn’t insinuating that you meant that Hall had had a bad day. I read that you didn’t think that was it. I was merely offering what I did because the idea about “having a bad day” was put out there as a consideration, and I wanted to nip that one that one in the bud right away lest anyone be inclined to consider that a possibility.
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