***
Pulpit and Pen’s JD Hall launches Voices in the Wilderness Radio with Faithful Theology and Faithful Preaching
***
The last we spoke of JD Hall and Pulpit and Pen was in this August 2014 article, JD Hall’s Public Confession Regarding His Twitter Conversation with Ergun Caner’s Son, Who Later Committed Suicide. JD (Jordan) spoke with both Dee Parsons of The Wartburg Watch blog and me after this public confession. Against the opinion of a lot of naysayers, we both believed Jordan’s confession to be genuine and hoped that his online persona and sharp personality would soften.
Hall did take a break from social media. It wasn’t a long break. For a while, the Pen & Pulpit Twitter account was turned over to the Pulpit and Pen contributors: Gene Clyatt, Dustin Germain, Kofi Adu-Boahen, Alan Maricle, and Seth Dunn. Late September, I saw that JD Hall had started his own Twitter account. Today I received confirmation that JD Hall, along with the Pulpit and Pen contributors, are manning the Pulpit and Pen Twitter account.
Additionally, JD Hall is also once again contributing at Pulpit and Pen blog (I think they forgot to update the contributor page to include Hall) and yesterday he announced the launching of Voices in the Wilderness radio today, January 1, 2015.
***
Here is the scoop from the website:
Voice in the Wilderness Radio (VWR) launches January 1, 2015. This new 24/7 streaming radio station will offer solid, Reformed Baptist preaching from true voices in the wilderness – pastors you might never have heard of but who offer solid, expository sermons – and preachers you’ve might have heard of like John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Albert Martin, Justin Peters and Paul Washer. VWR will also carry programs like Generations Radio, Cross Encounters Radio and the P&P Contributor Hour. Between sermons, we will play hymns and smaller clips highlighting the work of men like AW Pink and others. It is a treasure trove of rich, dynamic preaching and sound theology.
Hall also mentioned that they “will always be seeking new pastors to highlight on VWR” and welcome sermon submissions. Please note the focus of “faithful theology” and “faithful preaching” as shown on the screenshot of the website. It’s an important and very appropriate focus.
I have some concerns, however. Cross Encounters Radio is Tony Miano’s show and Generations Radio is Kevin Swanson’s program. Generations Radio is listed twice within a 24-hr period on the current schedule. I shudder to think what will come out of Swanson’s mouth after this nonsense (saying that women who have been on birth control pills have embedded fetuses embedded in their wombs). And my regular readers have a good idea what I think about Miano who says women shouldn’t read the Bible in front of men because the Bible is authoritative and they are not in authority over men. Here are Tony Miano’s words transcribed from the 18:22 mark of this video:
And whenever a woman stands up on a box to proclaim the gospel in the open air, or even read scripture aloud, she is taking on the role of a man. She is taking on an authoritative role over whoever is listening to her.
The mere reading of scripture is to exercise authority because scripture is the authority. (Source)
I think it’s important to bring up one more note while I’m at it. Recently there has been a Twitter brouhaha with the hashtag #the15 (click on the link to see what I’m talking about) involving JD Hall and the Pulpiteers leading the pack (Pulpiteers are followers of Pulpit and Pen). You can read more about the #the15 Twitter hashtag in Bob Allen’s article, Twitter post sparks hashtag war with LifeWay, SBC elite.
The point is that Hall and those who have joined in the #the15 hashtag are rightly calling out LifeWay (a branch of Southern Baptist Convention) for selling heretical books and asking them to remove questionable material. Many people have joined the #the15 bandwagon and sadly, some of it has been contentious. (Update: please be sure to read my comment below Larry’s. I do not appreciate the methodology employed by this group in going after LifeWay and may report on that aspect later.)
While the Pulpit and Pen groupies have been calling out LifeWay for selling bad books, I sure hope Hall applies the same criteria for his new Voices in the Wilderness radio programming. The examples I provided of Kevin Swanson’s talk on embedded fetuses in wombs and Miano’s teaching that women should not read Scripture in front of men are not good examples of faithful theology and faithful preaching – they are men’s ideologies just like the very bad ideologies #the15 are publicly calling out on Twitter.
Spiritual Sounding Board 
“The “tone” you have perceived is mild in comparison to the TONE of the Lord Jesus when he spoke to the self-righteous and deceived religious leaders of His day.”
EeeeeeeK! JA’s self-righteousness has angered gracealone1.
“I accuse no one of anything, NOR do I compare myself with Christ.”
Right.
“If I have become your enemy because I tell you the truth, so be it.”
Am waiting for the “shake the dust off of your feet” comment. It usually follows somewhere about now.
LikeLike
Wow, Julie Anne, it seems you are being ganged up on. Have the pulpiteers all logged in.
LikeLike
Definitely Pulpiteer lingo. Sime have diffuculty with our “upgrade” here. That we can know the love of Christ, share His undiluted Gospel message in kindness and see God’s work being done without sounding like a bully.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I don’t think people see God’s love as just “warm and fuzzy.” But warm and fuzzy is one aspect of love. Think of a parent gazing at their newborn, or laughing at the antics of a silly toddler, or a grandma cuddling her first grandbaby – all “warm and fuzzy” type of love.
But then there is “tough love” when dealing with a misbehaving child. And “letting go” love when watching your newly licensed teenager drive off in the car for the first time. There is “stand back and keep your mouth shut” love when watching an adult child make a decision you don’t believe is smart but you have to let them live their lives their way.
There is the “head over heels” love of the first days with your soul mate. There is the “committing” love of the wedding day. The “persevering” love in the tough days of childrearing and working and financial pressures. The “kind and gentle” love of a husband watching his beloved wife disappear behind the curtain of Alzheimer’s disease.
There are many aspects of love and I think God expresses them all. I want him to be tough with me when I need it, and to persevere when I keep making the same mistakes over and over. I want him to be gentle when I am at the end of my rope. And I especially want him to be “warm and fuzzy” and laugh with me when something funny happens and to be delighted when he sees me erupt in praise over an unexpected blessing he drops in my path.
LikeLiked by 5 people
Mom of two,
Such a good reflection of many kinds of love. I believe God gave us the ability to recognize all of these, because He loves in all of these ways.
LikeLiked by 1 person
The bolded part is bullying. You have been given verses to show that Jesus did not behave like a bully. Why are you rejecting those? Because of your sense of entitlement that you get to behave however you like as long as you get to beat people over the head with your version of the Gospel? The reason why it’s not going to work here is because it’s all about you. You don’t care about presenting Christ, but just an angry Christ that you want us to grab on to as you have done. Does it mean we don’t understand God’s wrath? Nope. Does it mean we don’t understand that God gets angry? Nope.
Examine ourselves for what? Are you presuming that because we are challenging you on your angry Gospel message that we are not Believers?
Why do you have to have any kind of rude tone? What’s up with that?
Oh, yea, I fully expected that last sentence. I suppose in your mind, if people don’t have ears to hear you, then you can wipe your hands clean because they weren’t elected anyway, right? You’ve done your job by presenting the gospel (small G because I think anyone who presents a bully gospel is a fraud and more interested in SELF and what HE can DO without care or love for others), so you get the Brownie points and then you get to move on to your next victim that you will label as “unbelievers” because they too will likely reject the small-g gospel you tried to share with them in a bully way. Your doctrine makes it so easy to not accept any responsibility for behavior, you know, because God is Sovereign, He will do his work through bully behavior.
I can hear it now: “But Lord, no one accepted the gospel I tried to present to them, but I did what You wanted me to do.You must not have elected them.”
I think God is going to have some surprises in store for people who think they get to be gospel bullies pretending to share love when they know not love. Darrel, you’ve got control confused with love.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Paul Joseph
You write @ JANUARY 5, 2015 @ 9:03 AM…
“…all of our elders are very wise and Godly men…”
Well, “very wise and Godly” is NOT part of the qualifications… 😉
“…who absolutely meet the qualifications…”
Well, everyone says their elder/overseers meet the qualifications…
Until you show them, one by one, the many very tough qualifications…
How do “you” know these “wise and Godly men” meet the qualifications? Have you interviewed them personally? And their children? Yup, elders must Manage Well their family and the kids gots to qualify. Otherwise how can they care for the church of God? 1 Tim 3:4-5.
That’s why I asked…
Did you ever check out the elder/overseers? To see if they qualify?
Did you ever check out JD? To see if he qualifies?
If you have NOT checked them out, just be honest and say so.
If you do NOT know what the qualifications are, just be honest and say so.
Giving words of “fluff,” “very wise and Godly,” does NOT work anymore.
When so many “very wise and Godly,” are responsible for Spiritual Abuse.
And do NOT meet the qualifications.
In my experience, the pew sitters, myself included, NEVER checkout the elder/overseers. Most pew sitters, myself included, just go along and do NOT know the qualifications. Or, they are afraid, cautious, to challenge the guys with the “Titles.”
Until it’s to late…
Then it’s their turn to experience Abusive Un-qualified elder/overseers. 😦
Then, after the shock, disappointment, pain of Spiritual Abuse…
the qualifications become real important… 😉
Fool me once shame on you…
Fool me twice – Hmmm? Not Likely… 🙂
Do you know what the qualifications are?
According to 1 Tim 3:1-6, and Titus 1:5-9?
LikeLiked by 1 person
grace1alone,
Mark 10:13-15King James Version (KJV)
13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.
14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
Gracealone1, you keep children from Jesus. Children have natural affections. Natural. Natural. That means that it comes from God.
Touch is the Greek definition “To Attach ones self to”. Jesus was not happy towards his disciples who wanted to keep CHILDREN from him, from holding, touching Jesus.
You don’t think that Jesus has emotions of love, just obedience to the father?
You don’t know Jesus. That is evident. You are the one who preaches a different Jesus.
Graceless is the disciple who rebuked the people bringing children to Jesus. Jesus rebukes gracealone1.
Ed
LikeLiked by 3 people
Gee. Jesus was so anti-“warm and fuzzy” that he actually wept to see Lazarus’ sisters grieving his death. He stood by a woman caught in adultery even though the law clearly stated that she should be stoned. That pesky Jesus. He just isn’t following the RULES. He even washed other men’s feet! He allowed a prostitute to wash HIS feet with her tears and dry them with her hair. Nope. No “warm and fuzzies” here.
In fact, it seems the ones He rebuked the most were the ones who were so full of themselves. He had pretty harsh words for those who thought they had it all figured out, but were instead full of dead men’s bones.
LikeLiked by 6 people
Graceless said: “As for my “tone”, perhaps it is the hearer that wants to hear anger”. No, lily yean, the hearer is just so OVER people yelping about their own holiness whilst they bash other people for entertainment.
Then he added:.” I have presented the truth of Scripture and the Gospel”. I won’t call you a liar (because that would be rude). Nevertheless, you need to get in the nearest shower, because, laddie, your pants are on fire.
Sheesh. How DO people get so much taurine fecal matter in their wee heads anyhow????
LikeLiked by 1 person
Graceless, you said: “If I have become your enemy because I tell you the truth, so be it”.
No, no, you still don’t get it, yean. You became an enemy when you decided to create a god in your own image. That puts you in the camp of the one who was called “a liar from the beginning”. Ergo, you are the servant of your father, whose works you delight in doing.
That’s probably the reason you keep spouting all the stuff you stepped in following the north end of a southbound horse……
LikeLiked by 1 person
“I don’t think people see God’s love as just “warm and fuzzy.” But warm and fuzzy is one aspect of love. Think of a parent gazing at their newborn, or laughing at the antics of a silly toddler, or a grandma cuddling her first grandbaby – all “warm and fuzzy” type of love.”
I will take truth and justice any day over warm and fuzzy for adults. It is not always what people think it is. All truth is good –even negative truths. And who does not like justice for themselves? That is not selfish. That is good. And we should want justice for others.. I think the problem boils down to how we view relationships and what we have been taught about that in most churches.
Our relationships are basically contractual (think covenant). If we do what we are supposed to do in our interaction, there are few problems. The problem is we have allowed (throughout history) man to decide what we should or should not do/be instead of Jesus Christ. This means justice is redefined, too. And that is such a shame. Now we tend to think justice is “mean”. A lot of this flows from the typical Protestant teaching that we have all swallowed that says we can be saved and live however we want.
Just another way Grace has been so cheapened.
LikeLike
“The “tone” argument is one of last resort for those who have no substantive Biblical argument with which to counter.”
All of us come to scripture with differing filters. Most of those filters have been ingrained and we accepted them without much questioning. The deterministic filter is the hardest one to change.
It is hard work to question and search because let us face it: You cannot ignore historical context. The biggest problem is the view that the bible is some sort of magic manual that only a few have decoded properly.
LikeLike
My name did it again! Weird.
Does the “sheeple” at JD’s church who commented here realize that JD is a “sheep”, too? Once we stop putting these guys on “shepherd” pedestals it would go a long way toward growing up and maturing past them.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Please be careful of your accusations and assuming that anyone who sits under a pastor of whom you do not agree to be a bilbically ignorant “sheeple” (whatever that means, idk, it sounds condescending).
I assure you that I know the qualifications of an elder as outlined in the Bible, I’ve gone through them one at a time, much like our Church does when adding an additional elder or if there a possible cause of concern. I do know the families of the elders. I’ve met their parents, siblings, children, grand-children, and great-grand-children (where applicable), and their homes are managed well. We do not handle lightly the position of elder or look at the qualifications based on one person’s interpretation, but the Church’s.
LikeLike
Lydia,
You had said:
“I will take truth and justice any day over warm and fuzzy for adults.”
The problem is, we need to be as children, not adults.
But the problem with that is, adults forgot how to be like a child.
Ed
LikeLike
Paul,
If the church (ecclesia, aka pew sitters) are ignorant of today’s technology, aka ignorant of JD Hall’s extracurricular activities on the internet, then found out, what did the pew sitters think about that, and do about it? Did they just say “Oh, OK, no biggie, praise God!”? It’s up to everyone, pew sitters included, to keep the pastor in line, isn’t it? Or is it just the elders job to keep the pastor in line? Did anyone in the pews bring up the idea of firing JD Hall, and getting another preacher, or is there a political hierarchy within his church that makes ecclesiastical decisions, without the pew sitters?
Ed
LikeLike
Paul, How can it be a false accusation When you have just admitted that you are UNDER JD Hall?
LikeLike
Seems like others within gracealone1’s own camp also takes issue with Darrel’s tone:
A man named Justin Edwards said to Darrel:
“Darrel, your tone for your reformed brothers is rather caustic.”
Ed
LikeLike
Ed, There is such a thing as taking a metaphor too far. We are also told to stop drinking milk and eat meat. We are told to grow in holiness mature and seek wisdom.
LikeLike
Notice how Darrel uses the word “feelings” in the following:
A person identified as 072591 said to Darrel:
“I remember you and your caustic rhetoric, Darrel, or would you prefer the name you used when you disparaged my name and personally attacked me without addressing anything I was saying – gracealone1. I am curious as to whether or not anybody can disagree with you on any issue without declaring that they are deceivers and liars.”
Darrel replied with:
“Gee, is that a privilege only for you, 07251? (Now that’s real anonymity!). As to the reason for the name change, you’ll have to ask word press. Since you have chosen to “personally attack me” (to use your own words) rather than address the concerns and questions brought up are we to assume that 1) you don’t have an answer or 2) they were too tough for you or 3) reasons known only to you which you don’t want anyone else to know or 4) ?????
Would it not be better to defend the faith and the character of OUR Lord than to be so concerned for the “feelings” of those who teach falsely? Or is false teaching to go unopposed?”
Seems as Darrel has an issue with “feelings”. This is to his own peeps, too. Feelings. He doesn’t like feelings.
Ed
LikeLike
Lydia, This may sound selfish, but I want it all. Warm and fuzzy, meat, maturity and seek wisdom. We all have our own way of doing these things. We are all made in His image, but we are all made different. I don’t want to be so wise and mature that I can’t throw up my hands and praise the Lord with complete abandon.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Lydia,
While I know that, it boils down to being like Adam and Eve before the fall. Children, ignorant, free spirited, not knowing good or evil.
Abraham didn’t have the law. He didn’t need law to tell him not to steal. But somehow, years later, God made a law to tell the Children of Israel not to steal.
Well, if ya love your neighbor, you are not stealing from your neighbor, are you?
What good did the law bring? If you are not thinking about law, you are not thinking about stealing. The righteousness of God is without law (Romans 3)
Those are the things we are to grow in for understanding what makes God happy. Being a child, carefree. Natural love, affection, yes, warm and fuzzy.
So, while I don’t disagree with you in the black and white, I disagree with you in outcome of the knowledge that we are to have.
TOUCH Jesus, Lydia. Touch him. Feel him. Hug him. Warm and Fuzzy, Lydia, it’s not wrong, no matter how much you are pulled away from the terminology “warm and fuzzy” by those who wish to think of Jesus just as an “obedient to the father” figurine.
I don’t like those who try to pull people away from the “warm and fuzzy” and just want to concentrate on the word “obedience”. We are to be obedient to Christ (Messiah), not the law of God. Faith vs. Rules.
Ed
LikeLike
Brenda R
i’m slow to response, but I appreciate your insight from my 1/4/15 12:56 p.m. post.
I think I scrolled down that you mentioned there may be a couple of rogue Puppets in the neighborhood. I wish they could read 2 certain posts in this thread that I wrote.
1st one on 1/3/15 @ 1:03 p.m and the other on 1/4/15 @ 12:56 p.m.
Trust me I repeatedly warned JD and the puppets (including John Carpenter) before the Caner tragedy, that they were going to far while lacking identifiable love and because of their repetitive heavy handedness by appearance failing to share their burdens with the Holy Spirit thereby lacking faith.
Not going to hold my breath.
LikeLike
Ok, I’m headed out for a few hours and to like a 50-yr old college student with my scariest ever course load. Here we go!
There are some hot topics going on. Please be kind to all.
LikeLike
I have a couple of observations apropos “love”. I agree with Ed Chapman that we have to be as children. Believers are adopted children of God. Lutherans, disliked by some on this board, really emphasise this. Our faith is like that of a child. Our relationship with God is like that of child to parent. God is just, but God is merciful. Sometimes this love makes one feel ‘warm and fuzzy”, sometimes one feels secure and serene in response, or able to take on some project to help others. God’s love is objective, but we experience it in subjective and various ways.
Regarding “rules” and “commandments”, it seems to me that these express God’s love for us. Each of the 10 commandments is good for us! Put God first, love others, don’t want what someone else has. He is looking out for us. It reminds of being a child and my dad taking me to coal preparation plants. He told me where not to step and what machinery not to touch. I did not always know why, but it was for my safety. No burden, just the care of a father who knows us individually and loves
LikeLiked by 1 person
Lutherans are disliked here? News to me.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Keith,
Good to hear from you! Been a while. Rest assured, I’m not against Lutherans. It’s the other reformed that I have a problem with. You make some great points.
Ed
LikeLike
Lutherans were mentioned by a poster above. I did not meant to distract from my actual point.
LikeLike
Lydia,
I guess that I need to also state that I am in total disagreement with those who equate “warm and fuzzy” with “cheap grace”.
Grace is cheaper than cheap. It’s free.
But that is not my point. My point is, every Christian is in a different place in their faith. No one is “tied for 3rd place” so to speak. A new Christian doesn’t automatically stop doing the things that he was doing. It’s a process.
If warm and fuzzy was cheap grace, then Paul wouldn’t have spoken about those who struggle with sin in Romans 7. But Christians seem to judge Romans 7 people all the time, telling others:
“He just said the prayer, he didn’t really mean it…look at him…he’s still sinning…he thinks that he can just do anything he wants, and later just ask God to forgive him…them cheap grace people, the warm and fuzzy people, God demands obedience!”
Well, those judgmental people have no clue the struggles that Romans 7 people have.
Ed
LikeLike
If what I have read regarding Hall’s conduct towards the boy who committed suicide is correct, I challenge anyone to cast it in any defensible light. “Kids are off limits?” If this was indeed his remark, someone needs to tell him yes, they are. Was Hall this child’s pastor? Why did he think he had the authority to go after this 15 year old?
LikeLiked by 2 people
Alistair Begg, Senior Pastor of Cleveland’s Parkside Church, is a well-known Calvinist. http://www.chrisitianitytoday.com/ct/2003/aprilweb-only-4-21-22.0.html?start=1
Alistair Begg on The Beatles:
It was always sad to me that people couldn’t see that he was crying out for something. I just always felt that in Lennon you had this guy who every so often would open the door to himself ever so slightly. Everytime he opened up, it never seemed to be the Christian response to say, “Hey, we’ve got an angle on that. We’d love to talk to you about that.” It was always, “Hey, get out of here, you long-haired nuisance. You’re destroying the youth of Great Britain and corrupting the life of the America..” We did this in the ’60s and, frankly, we are doing it again now.
Speaking of the religious community’s reaction to Lennon, there was a huge fervor after his comment. After that event he said, “I wasn’t saying the Beatles are better than Jesus or God or Christianity. I was using the name Beatles…as an example. But I could have said TV or cinema or anything else that’s popular. Or motor cars are bigger than Jesus.”
It’s a shame that it served the agenda of certain people to misunderstand that quote. What Lennon was saying is what people might justifiably say today about all kinds of idols and icons in relationship to young people in particular. He was in some ways bemoaning the fact. He was honest enough to say what was happening here is a phenomenom that is way beyond anything we could have ever conceived. The response, of course, was not particularly attractive…Such as when the band hit Dallas and all the youth pastors came to welcome them with bonfires.
There was nobody there who gained a platform to them at a time when they were willing to listen. The interviewer asked about the song “Help.” He said, “I wrote “Help” in ’65, and people hailed it as another advance in rock and roll.
It was the cry of my heart and nobody came to answer.
LikeLike
Why would he think the boy, who is of Turkish descent spoke Arabic at home? Why is he even concerned about some kid’s pictures? Any thought to letting the child’s parents know that the pictures might be inappropriate?
LikeLiked by 1 person
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/aprilweb-only/4-21-22.0html?start=1
LikeLike
Paul Joseph: Did your pastor do these things?
LikeLike
Lydia,
The problem that I have with your derogatory accusation was that it was just that, so please watch yourself because you are either being intentionally derogatory (which is a sin) against someone you know almost nothing about (and whose name you pretended to not know. Wow), or you don’t know what “sheeple” means (which I doubt).
I think a lot of people don’t realize how small of a part of JD’s life/time is committed to his online existence. JD spends time with his family, working on his sermons, doing business of the church, talking to and praying with members individually, assisting with our food pantry/shower ministry, evangelism, leading Bible studies, following up with guests and new members, checking-in on members who haven’t been around in a while, visiting people in the hospital, teaching at some of our youth events.
In some of the free time that he has, he has chosen to help edify others with a radio program and blog that he does on his time and with his money. I contact him frequently, and never once has he been in the middle of responding on twitter, or commenting on blogs, or anything that he wouldn’t drop instantly to be there for a member of the church. JD is a loving Pastor who cares deeply for the members of the church, as do all of our elders.
LikeLike
Ed,
Your quotes above from gracealone1 piqued my interest, so I googled the pseudonym. Wowee! He doesn’t even believe a person can be saved outside of reformed doctrine. And he could use some anger management classes. At least it’s not really personal against SSB.
LikeLiked by 1 person
“It was the cry of my heart and nobody came to answer.”
Sad. So sad. Another failure for churchianity.
LikeLike
BeenThereDoneThat,
“He doesn’t even believe a person can be saved outside of reformed doctrine.”
And then there are the people who don’t believe anyone who is reformed can be saved and is going to hell.
LikeLike
Carmen,
Almost everyone thinks that those from my background are heretics. 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
A young person possibly committing a sin is not the “enemy”. They don’t need their necks chewed, they need pastoral care. Jesus did not beat the sheep, he shepherded them. Pastors need to be mature enough to know the difference between contending for the faith and helping out sheep, especially younger ones.
LikeLiked by 1 person
How old is JD Hall?
LikeLike
“Lydia, This may sound selfish, but I want it all. Warm and fuzzy, meat, maturity and seek wisdom. We all have our own way of doing these things. We are all made in His image, but we are all made different. I don’t want to be so wise and mature that I can’t throw up my hands and praise the Lord with complete abandon.”
Brenda, I am not seeing how loving and seeking truth and justice is not warm and fuzzy or why being mature and wise would negate throwing our hands up in praise? I think it is the opposite.
The Warm and fuzzy misunderstanding is why so many people helped rehab JD Hall so quick thinking his PR apology was “repentance”. We could not wait a year to see if the “repentance” was real? No, he needed some good PR right then.
In my book antinomians are warm and fuzzy. Child molester at church? Just say sorry cos we are all sinners. Without truth and justice the warm and fuzzy can provide shelter for evil to continue.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I have seen quite a bit of JD online over the last 5 years or so. I thought he was bad before the twitter exchange. And I do know that followers of JD think they get to decide what is sin for others. The downgrade. the heresy hunting, etc, etc. I think you are in a cult. Your comments here reek of the typical fundy cultic bent. Of course, it is not a sin when JD is caustic and vitriolic and goes after people. He has a messiah complex and you are a follower and supporter of it. And I am well aware what lengths he goes to-to bring people down. Anyone who he considers a threat. I am safe because he thinks I am Peter Lumpkins.
I get it. You are part of the PR rehab. Follow Christ. Not JD. If you follow Christ you will be high tailing it out of that church.
He edifies no one but himself.
LikeLike
Keith,
I tried looking for Hall’s age when the fallout after Braxton’s suicide took place. I never did find it. For certain he’s well past the age of majority. Far too old to suggest that Braxton contact him privately to continue the discussion. (That really bothered me. You don’t initiate a “secret” relationship with someone else’s child with good intentions.)
I think he knew what he did was very wrong, hence the public “apology.” Some of us questioned whether or not it was a “repentance,” but only time (and fruit) could really prove that. It seems the “repentance” was short lived.
LikeLiked by 1 person
“f what I have read regarding Hall’s conduct towards the boy who committed suicide is correct, I challenge anyone to cast it in any defensible light. “Kids are off limits?” If this was indeed his remark, someone needs to tell him yes, they are. Was Hall this child’s pastor? Why did he think he had the authority to go after this 15 year old?”
Because he had been going after his dad for years and could not stop himself. Evidently, Hall did not think his dad suffered enough losing his job and moving across country to a much lower position. So he targets the son trying to turn him against his own father. JD Hall is despicable. My mamma bear is coming out big time.
He actually hurt his cause. A lot of folks who had problems with Caner were so appalled at JD’s prolonged hate campaign they started feeling sorry for Caner.
But really, you should be asking Paul, right, since he thinks so highly of JD. This was not some “mistake”. This was after years of repeated vitriol and hate directed at people. JD could not stop himself and still can’t. He is right back in the thick of it with another heresy hunting campaign. I think he has a personality disorder. Sort of like a small time Driscoll who cannot stand not having attention on a larger scale.
LikeLike
“I think a lot of people don’t realize how small of a part of JD’s life/time is committed to his online existence.”
I call bull honky on the above. Paul Joseph, I dont know how you could come to that conclusion based on the evidence we see publicly. And also, keep in mind he networks quite a bit to get material to feed his blog, podcast, and now radio show.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Julie,
Thank you for being civil. If you don’t believe me, unfortunately then there is really nothing I can do about that, which is fine. You see his online presence, and I see,speak, or interact with him more days than not, so it is just our words against one another.
Again, if there is any sincere question from anyone who doesn’t immediately pre-judge and ad-hominem anyone who attends JD’s church as a “fundy” “cultic” “sheeple”, I would answer it if I can. I don’t know the man’s every thought and intention, but I have seen him broken and have cried with him, so I would like to help if there are any misconceptions.
LikeLike
Well, i just know how long it takes me and I’m mom of 7 and have that multi-tasking thing down pretty well (Im at costco shopping/walking while posting. Lol)
LikeLike
“While I know that, it boils down to being like Adam and Eve before the fall. Children, ignorant, free spirited, not knowing good or evil.”
I look at it a bit differently. God’s plan was for them to grow in wisdom with Him as their guide. Eating from the Tree of the “knowledge” of good and evil sped up that process before they were wise and mature. And analogy would be like 5 year olds running around in 25 year old bodies and suddenly realizing they were naked. I think it is God’s intention we grow in maturity. I don’t think it was that they would ever know good and evil but that God wanted to share His wisdom and be in communion with them. (After all, evil did exist at the time)
I see wisdom as a theme all through scripture. God as our King, our guide, etc. Now it is the Holy Spirit.
Just another view. When we are told to be like children in the NT, I want to know how children were viewed in that time. I think we miss the point. Innocent, blameless
LikeLike
“I don’t think it was that they would ever know good ”
oops, that should read “NEVER” know……
LikeLike
“You see his online presence”
And it speaks volumes. In fact, we get to see a side of him that, apparently, even his own congregation is unaware of. A side that is so hurtful that he had to apologize to his own church for the harm it caused.
LikeLike
No “pre judging” here, Paul. The only thing you are trying to do is convince us s he is a different person ‘in person’ than online. That is even worse.
LikeLiked by 1 person
^^That’s literally a prejudgment^^ Just sayin’
LikeLike
Lydia,
2 Corinthians 4:18
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
According to Jesus, we are supposed to look up, not out.
Looking up, Evil doesn’t exist in heaven. What wisdom, justice, maturity, etc., will we need in heaven? Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is such as children. There is nothing that will get in the way of communion.
Jesus asked a simple question of Adam and Eve. That question was, “Who told you that you were naked?”
Now, why would God ask them that? God never told them that they were naked.
Set that word naked aside for a minute, because spiritually all that means is the word “shame”. Being naked, they had no shame. They were naked before the Lord, without guilt of anything, because no one told them about being mature. But once they knew that they were naked, they were in shame. Shame shows guilt, not because they ate of the tree of knowledge. It is because they got knowledge, and God didn’t give them that knowledge.
Satan wanted them to get knowledge. That tree gave them knowledge that God didn’t want them to have.
So, grow in maturity? I’m not so sure. For such is the kingdom of heaven…children. No evil. No thoughts of evil. No temptation to do evil. No knowledge of evil. That, to me, sounds like he wants children to be ignorant of evil, not knowing evil. When we are adults, we know evil. Being an adult sucks.
Do you remember what it was like being care free?
There is no hierarchy, as we know it in our wisdom of heaven. What’s his is ours. He sits on his Fathers Throne, and we will sit on His throne. It’s called paradise. We won’t be weeding the garden, building houses, or even trying to figure out why our computer won’t boot up. We won’t need an airplane, or car to travel.
That, to me, is wisdom. But, in the carnal life that we live in, we as adults need carnal wisdom.
Look up, not out. All of those things I said above is the wisdom that I believe that God wants us to learn from the Bible. He wants us to learn how to be a child. His child.
2 Corinthians 4:18
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Ed
LikeLike
Paul,
Seems to me that you are putting blinders on, singing “la la la la la” while covering your ears.
As Julie Anne notes, there is a lot of “evidence” to back up what Julie Anne states, of what you say that he has no time for. So, the evidence does not back up your insinuation that he doesn’t have the time.
And, I might add, my questions are legit, and genuine, for which you just seem to skip over mine. I interpret that as a badge of honor for my self, tho, not as a statement that you just don’t care to answer me, due to _____________.
Ed
LikeLiked by 1 person
Paul Joseph, perhaps you are assuming more on my side. I spent a few hours (on a couple of occasions) talking on the phone with him. We’ve correspnded on Twitter and email. I asked him a lot of questions. I suspect most of his church members have no clue how much time it takes to do what he does online.
I’ll bet a lot of my readers have no idea how much time I take behind the scenes and on social media. And he’s a busy pastor and husband/father.
LikeLike
Lydia,
I would not call taking time to see true repentance (still waiting to see it in the X) or wanting justice served for a child molester warm and fuzzy ever and if they are let out I am still very uncomfortable with them anywhere near a child. That is not where I come from at all. I speak out about pedophiles with what I should have–anger. If we are not angry about pedophilia then we become part of the problem. Once again we have different terminology for what we are feeling and trying to produce. No we do not sin level. We may all be level at the cross, but we are not level in sin in this world. There is a huge difference.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Lydia,
You had said:
“The Warm and fuzzy misunderstanding is why so many people helped rehab JD Hall so quick thinking his PR apology was “repentance”.”
My response:
I think that you and I are discussing two different “warm and fuzzies” here. My warm and fuzzy is about an affectionate God that gracealone1 doesn’t believe in.
Your warm and fuzzy is about a rehabbed sinner, or the lack thereof.
Ed
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ed,
Good word!!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Julie,
I apologize if I am assuming something about you that is untrue, I am not intending to. I am aware of the chats that you have had and have probably followed most, if not all of your twitter exchanges together, and I realize that you know more about him than most other online critics. The primary point I was trying to make isn’t that he spends more time doing it than his congregants realize, which is probably very true. The point I was trying unsuccessfully to make is that I think people online assume he spends a lot more time doing it than what he does. The impression I have received from most people online, and forgive me if I am wrong, is that they think he spends 90% of his time online and 10% of his time as a pastor and husband/father which is far from the truth.
Ed,
If you indeed had a sincere question somewhere in there that I missed, I apologize. To tell you the truth, I lightly skim some of the more recent posts before I comment to see if there is something pertinent to me, and if it is too long, too far back in the comments, or doesn’t seem to be directed at me, I’ve been ignoring them. Like I said, I’m busy, so I pop in when I have a minute and glance at the most recent comments to see if there is anything I should respond to, if not, I leave again.
The only things I had seen were you answering your own loaded question and then awarding yourself a badge of some kind for doing so. If that was all, then congrats to you, if not, sorry for missing it.
LikeLike
Paul,
Loaded question? No, Paul, my questions are simple. Seems like what you are trying to convey about both you and JD, including your pew sitters, is that all of you are so busy that you have no time to get online, and then there are congregants that wouldn’t know how to get online unless they took a college course. Busy, busy, busy, no time in life to understand what their preacher is doing outside of feeding the poor and writing sermons.
Ed
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thank you Ed, you said that much better than I did. My warm and fuzzy is towards Christ, not abusive clergy, pedophiles and other unrepentant sinners.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I’m not sure how much time people think he spends on time vs church, but I have a hunch he spends more time online than you and most of his congregants think. It would be difficult to add up the time just as it would be difficult for me to add up my time. I was checking in with my blog/e-mail in between classes, while at Costco, etc. With smart phones, one can easily multi-task.
I do believe, however, that he also spends a fair amount of time pastoring . . . and let’s not forget he enjoys hunting 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
Brenda, thank you for that.
When I made the comment prior to that, in regards to the Romans 7 people, that warm and fuzzy is being accused of those who struggle with sin, equating it to cheap grace, not saved, etc.
But you know what? I do not know ANY Romans 7 people that feel that way, and guess what, I know a lot of Romans 7 people. Drug addicts that do not want to do drugs, but wind up doing them anyway. And the actions, sins, that it takes for them to do those drugs, too, such as stealing, lying, etc. They are accused of the Holier Than Thou people by using the phrase “Cheap Grace” and “Warm and Fuzzy”.
Romans 7 people have the blessed assurance, and that indeed is a warm and fuzzy “feeling” that they should have, NOT equated to cheap grace.
So, I don’t know how, or why Romans 7 people are lumped into the same category of the term “cheap grace” equating that to the phrase “warm and fuzzy”.
The holier than thou people tell us, “They just said the prayer”. Spend some time with drug addicts, and you will see that stumbling is a part of the process until the day that we die.
We know that JD is not struggling with sin. He justifies his sins, thinking that what he did was indeed righteous. JD is not a Romans 7 person.
Ed
LikeLike
Julie,
He does indeed enjoy his hunting when he can. Which is a passion we do not share. If you have ever heard him occasionally on his show mention his vegan/vegetarian friend that has little in common with him outside of the love of Christ, that would be me.
I have no doubt whatsoever that he spends more time than what the congregants realize. What they do know is that they are never neglected on account of it. On multiple occasions he has taken a break or hiatus from his show/blogging as soon as he started to realize that it was taking too much of his time. He is also continually delegating more and more or his show/blog responsibilities to other contributors.
Ed,
It seems like every time you mention my church, you try to insult us more and more. I said “we’re not extremely tech-savvy” you said “ignorant of today’s technology” and “wouldn’t know how to get online unless they took a college course”. Please watch the ad-hominems, they generally reveal a lot about the user.
I’m not trying to use busyness as an excuse for anything (outside of my lethargy in responding). And no, not everyone in the congregation cares to stick their nose into the pastor’s business when he is not being a pastor. I’m as informed as I am because I carry a smartphone and grew up on the internet which keeps me posted while working 70-80 hours a week.
LikeLike
BTDT said: “I tried looking for Hall’s age when the fallout after Braxton’s suicide took place. I never did find it. For certain he’s well past the age of majority. Far too old to suggest that Braxton contact him privately to continue the discussion. (That really bothered me. You don’t initiate a “secret” relationship with someone else’s child with good intentions.)”
You are so right. That went beyond foolish; it even went beyond reckless. It was well into serious creeper territory. Makes me very, very nervous about his other interactions with young people.
LikeLike
Paul,
You are not answering my questions. You are only making comments about my questions. Nice deflections.
Basically, what I am getting is that no one really cares what his online activity is, just as long as their, the congregants, needs are met.
That is my point. No one cares. Why?
Ed
LikeLike
“You see his online presence”.
Yes,sir, I do, & I smell it also. It stinks to high heaven, yean.
LikeLike
Ed, you said: “We know that JD is not struggling with sin. He justifies his sins, thinking that what he did was indeed righteous”. I see the same thing. The man just plain reeks of self-justification.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I haven’t heard him mention you. That’s kind of funny, though.
Paul Joseph, do you consider yourself a Pulpiteer? Are you part of the Bunker?
LikeLike
“Corinthians 4:18
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
According to Jesus, we are supposed to look up, not out.
Looking up, Evil doesn’t exist in heaven. What wisdom, justice, maturity, etc., will we need in heaven? Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is such as children. There is nothing that will get in the way of communion.”
Ed, we obviously disagree on what these things mean and how to read them within their context. I also read Genesis very differently than you seem to. I believe evil already existed and had they stuck with God, He would have guided them on dealing with it. I believe we will spend eternity on a redeemed and joined heaven/earth. God is not going to totally destroy His creation, it will be redeemed. I think we will do very productive things.
AS to looking up, not out. I believe we are to do both here and now. We have to look “out” in order to protect the innocent and help those who are suffering. We are to live as much as the kingdom as we can and reflect Christ back out. I believe that what we do here and now either will or will not transfer to the redeemed earth. That should give us pause. Looking “up” only is what the Monks attempted to do with their isolationism.
Paul also says in 1 Corin that we would have to leave the world not to deal with evil. Even Jesus said be wise as serpents and innocent a doves. I at a loss as to why growing in maturity is a bad thing for believers. It is a constant theme for Israel and in the NT. When we are told to be perfect like our heavenly Father is perfect it is better translated as mature, fully developed. The child metaphor has been sadly misunderstood. It is about being blameless and innocent of wrong doing. It is not about being ignorant. And remember, there are many children throughout history who did not live carefree lives and would not relate to that at all. Even in the 1st Century when it was worse. .
LikeLike
“^^That’s literally a prejudgment^^ Just sayin’”
And that is a “prejudgment”, too.
See, Paul, I can play this all day but won’t. I know how your band of brothers operate and think. Why not use the same techniques on me you use for JD? You don’t know me. Perhaps I am a great woman of God off this blog “according to your definition of such things”. As if JD is hiding some godly persona from us online.
You are trying to convince us JD’s long time online persona does not count because you say so and are doing the PR thing here. You want to try and convince us of what? We did not read what we read from him for years? I thought the PR tactic was that he changed? But he is right back at it. And I agree with JA when it comes to online…..you seem to have no idea how much time it really does take to do what he does online. Perhaps you could be a better steward of your money you give to help pay such things.
Here is the deal because you sit “under” JD: You are being taught to think like he does. That tells me all I need to know.
LikeLike
Lydia,
Yes, Lydia, we definitely see things differently. Big time. Big Big time.
The here and now stuff isn’t gonna matter when we are dead.
Evil did exist, but Adam and Eve had no clue about any evil until they got knowledge.
Knowledge of Good and Evil is what matters.
Deuteronomy 1:39
And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad—they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it.
Now, the way I see that verse is twofold.
1. Carnal, which is what you care about, the historical, the here and now stuff
2. Spiritual, which is what I concern myself with. The next life.
Spiritual, those with no knowledge of good and evil get to heaven. Paradise. The Garden of Eden.
To expound on that, babies that die, go to heaven.
Notice that they had no clue of the knowledge of good and evil. And that was the name of that tree in the garden.
Crossing the Jordan River is our death date to the promised land.
All in all, I could care less about the here and now. But, I live in the here and now, so I need to concern myself with it. But that is not the focus. And it shouldn’t be yours, either.
Justice isn’t gonna matter when you are dead. Justice will come, with, or without you.
Ed
LikeLike
Lydia,
I noticed that I quoted the NIV of Deu 1:39. Here is the KJV
Deu 1:39
Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.
Notice the words, “No Knowledge between good and evil”
Ed
LikeLike
Paul Joseph,
Your pastor represents your church. Although, I believe he deserves a personal life with his family, HE REPRESENTS YOUR CHURCH in a big way. The congregation should know him well. If they don’t, then perhaps your church is too large for him to handle. His tweets and radio show do not benefit the church. One person cannot do it all successfully.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Lydia,
Colossians 3:2
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
I do not believe in a “redeemed” earth. I believe in a New earth that comes down from heaven, a place outside of our universe . The heavens (universe) will roll up as a scroll.
In the resurrection, we, as spirits, which is invisible, will get a new body that is visible. I believe that to be the same with the New Earth, not redeemed earth.
I see 1 Corinthians 15 explain these things about the word “body”. It isn’t just talking creatures body.
Ed
LikeLike
“All in all, I could care less about the here and now. But, I live in the here and now, so I need to concern myself with it. But that is not the focus.And it shouldn’t be yours, either.
Justice isn’t gonna matter when you are dead. Justice will come, with, or with”
IMO, It matters greatly to God here and now because it is about who were are in Him. What we do with what we know. If eternal life is the focus then what we do here and now is important to our eternal life. We are not justified to do whatever we want. We are to be the light of the world. Not ignore injustice and evil. We are to reflect Christ back out into the world and live as much as the kingdom now as we can. If everyone had taken that view, there would still be a state church, monarchies, slavery, etc. While there is still so much evil there are also very good things because people sought to change them. Would you tell the raped woman not to seek justice because it does not matter here and now?
I don’t mind disagreeing because I think such convos sharpen us. but please don’t tell me what should or should not be my concerns or focus.
LikeLike
Lydia,
You had asked me:
“Would you tell the raped woman not to seek justice because it does not matter here and now”
I already spoke that since we are in the here and now, carnally, we need to deal with it.
However, that is not supposed to be our primary focus. All of this here and now stuff is a spiritual reflection of the bigger picture. God vs. Satan. It isn’t about us. It’s about Satan wanting to drag as many people with him to his final destination. Hence, the term “spiritual warfare”.
Justice will not escape God. There is a white throne Judgment. This life is just a vapor. There is nothing new under the sun.
God is the judge. The thief on the cross was rightfully judged to be on that cross. It seems to me that it is the thief that you want on that cross. And you wouldn’t be wrong about it. He deserved to be there. And he knew it, as well. He got justice.
But you know what? He made it to heaven. So, all of the justice in the world for him didn’t really matter. What mattered was the final destination. Jesus is the judge, not us.
We definitely have a different opinion on the phrase “Kingdom now” stuff, that’s for sure. Yes, we are to reflect Christ. But we are not to be Christ. He is judge. Not us. We spread the gospel. We mete out carnal justice, not spiritual justice. We put the thief on the cross, rightfully so, but Jesus took that thief to heaven. Why?
Ed
LikeLike
Julie,
I’m not sure whether or not I consider myself a pulpiteer. I’ve never really done any of their pulpiteer things. These comments are probably the closest I have ever come to it. I don’t really like arguing with people, and I would definitely say that there are some pulpiteers that do too much of that. Being that none of them are perfect, and this is the internet, it’s kind of prone to happen. As is evident here with some of the fights that people are trying to pick. I guess I just have a little bit too much of the “peace, love, and happiness” vegan fluff still in me. In general, I try to treat people online the same way I do in person. I don’t walk around looking for fights or pick arguments with people with whom I know I disagree.
I stumbled across this article somehow, I don’t even remember, but noticed that a couple untrue things were said in the comments or a question was asked and I wanted to help clarify. I respect that you have taken the time to communicate with JD, and I don’t know if it is because of that, but you seem to be the most level-headed one here. I realize that you still have your issues with him and disagree about a lot of things, but you are still able to be civil, thanks for that.
Lydia,
It wasn’t a pre-judgement that I made, it was in fact just a straight judgement based on what you had just said. That aside, I’m not trying to tell you that he is a different person online than in-person. Obviously he talks to people who are not members of our church differently than he talk to members. As he should. I’m a teacher, but I don’t talk to everyone as though they were one of my students, but I will still advocate for truth, and correct their logic and grammatical errors (at times).
He is a Pastor to his church, yes, but even when he is not with one of the members, he still loves Christ and hates sin. Within a Biblical church, private sin can be, and is, addressed privately. Sin within the public/social media realm is addressed publicly or on social media. While a loving and gentle rebuke may work with a church member, large entities or evangelical celebrities ignore them. Which forces those desiring to see repentance to make a little more noise. In both instances sin is rebuked and repentance is sought, the difference is based on how the sin is committed and how much it is trying to be swept under the rug. I understand that you don’t approve of his methods, and I would never try to say that he has been sinless in them. He has been rebuked by his fellow elders, deacons, and church members, all of which he takes very seriously, and when he is found to be in sin, he repents. Many people here seem very cold and are quick with the name calling and arguing, but that doesn’t necessarily make it sinful (although name-calling usually is, no matter which side does it).
LikeLike
Lydia,
Here is a scenario for you:
An atheist woman gets raped. The rapist is caught, sent to jail, went to trial, found guilty, sent to prison for the rest of his life.
Justice served. Rapist gets saved while serving time.
But, what is the final destination of the atheist woman?
Carnal justice served. Rightfully so.
What is the outcome of the spiritual justice? Is that fair?
Ed
LikeLike
Lydia and Ed, im afraid people who are wanting to follow the JD thread are not going to want to wade through your theological debate. Do you want me to create a thread to carry it on there?
LikeLike
no JA. I had no idea we were discussing “spiritual justice” in the first place. I am done.
LikeLike
Paul Joseph, can you confirm that his elders gave the green light for him to get back into his online activities again?
LikeLike
Lydia,
It wasn’t a pre-judgement that I made, it was in fact just a straight judgement based on what you had just said. ”
Bingo. That is the exact standard I have used for JD and his online communication and behavior over the last few years. Lots of it, too. You judged me based on one blog thread.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Did we lose Gracealone?
LikeLike
“Did we lose Gracealone?”
I don’t know. His “tone” is pretty much the same on other forums. The moderator on SBCVoices threatened to ban him. One of the other commenters who shares his theological views called him an “embarrassment.” I’m afraid any dialogue with him might be impossible.
LikeLike
JA: Gracealone may have tired of being referred to by various modifications of his or her user name.
Paul Joseph: Do you think Hall had some pastoral authority over Braxton Caner?
What is your view of an adult male carrying on a conversation with someone else’s child on the internet? Does it make a difference if the conversation is secret or kept from the parents?
LikeLike
Julie,
I can’t confirm it with certainty that they gave him a green light, so to speak, but I do know that they are completely aware of it, and that he would not be online if they had decided against it. JD has a strong respect for the elder-led system, and will absolutely submit himself to their decisions, even if he is opposed to them.
Keith,
I do not believe he does, nor did he ever believe so. He has admitted that it was an unwise decision. My view on Braxton is going to differ from most. I work as a teacher, and I’ve worked with many 15-16 year-olds. I do not see them as these little children that so many people are claiming them to be. They work jobs, drive cars, commit themselves to long-term relationships, think for themselves, and are capable of making their own logical decisions. Possibly uneducated, unwise, or immature young adults? Yes. Little children? No. If it had been an 8 or 10 year-old, I would have absolutely had a problem with it. And I am extremely aware of the dangers that the internet poses to young children, but I see a lot of people intentionally reading misinformation into the event. No rational thinking person that is aware of what JD had been doing actually believes JD wanted to “have a relationship” with the young man. He chose an unwise way of trying to get a little more info on Ergun, and he regrets that. Unwise? Absolutely. Sinful? No.
His sin wasn’t in the action but that he wasn’t doing it out of a love for Ergun, which he has admitted and repented of. He lost sight of that in the midst of every thing which is why he dropped it and has left it alone.
LikeLike
These questions may have already been addressed here and I missed them for sure. So with that said, my questions are, “As a parent, would any of us find it appropriate and acceptable, let alone godly in any form, for a pastor of God’s Anointed Word, to address our children in such a fashion via the internet?” Especially if our child is struggling with pain and suffering from the cares of this world?
Would Mr. Hall’s approach be acceptable according to our standards for our own households?
Does Mr. Hall’s approach in confronting children via the internet public forum bring Honor and Glory to our King, JESUS? And is he above reproach? And who exactly is playing the role of God, the Holy Spirit, in this sad affair of this earthly life, man or HIM?
And are not all of us accountable before a Holy and Righteous God?
Julie Anne, seven children…..wow….I have great respect for you and am humbled all of a sudden! God Bless You!
LikeLike
It just means my bathroom/fridge/house is messier/louder and probably more chaotic than yours. No big deal. 🙂 Currently 1 has left the coop, another is leaving today back to school, another lives at home and is a full-time college student and so he is pretty much either at school, work, or in his room studying, so that leaves 2 high schoolers, 1 middle schooler, 1 in elementary school. So, we’re a pretty normal family now, except for the fact that they are tall boys and consume 1 cow a day with their eating habits. 🙂
LikeLike
You confirmed what I heard from JD – that the elders are genuinely trying to do their job. And that’s good. However, knowing what I know regarding the time involvement in blogging/Twittering/private forums (I don’t have experience with radio, so I can only imagine), podcasting, I’m not convinced your elders have a clue as to the extent of his social media involvement and time involved. Something is taking a hit, trust me on that, whether it’s family time or church time.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Keith, I saw one comment like that (may have missed others as I was away playing over the weekend and it may have slipped by), but I, too, am uncomfortable with modifying people’s names here. I think we can do better. It discredits us if we resort to that kind of thing.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I think you contradicted yourself, JP. You said he didn’t sin by going after Braxton, but did sin because it wasn’t out of a love for Ergun. Sooooo . . . . .he sinned by going after Braxton because it wasn’t out of love for Ergun, right?
LikeLiked by 2 people
Paul Joseph: His sin was in usurping the the natural order instituted by God, wherein the parents have authority over the children, not some third party who was “trying to get a little more info” on the child’s father.
LikeLiked by 1 person
For the last 7 years, I have worked as a volunteer at local public high schools. While my primary job is piano accompanist, much of it turns into being a mentor and I have the opportunity to get personal with some kids. There’s a difference in how I do it and the way JD did it. He had no relationship with Braxton. I have a relationship with the kids I work with. If I see them making bad decisions, I will question them on it in a loving way because I care about them and they know I care. If JD had no relationship with Braxton, no foundational respect going on, his heart intent was wrong. He was using Braxton to further his negativity campaign against Ergun. He used Braxton to publicly point out what a bad father Ergun was (because Ergun was allowing his kid to post pictures of his girlfriend in “immodest” bikini, using bad language).
Braxton knew clearly that JD was going after his dad. It’s already difficult enough being a pastor’s kid, but imagine finding out that your dad is hated among some (yes, hate, because the methods employed and behaviors shown by the Pulpiteers were hateful, not loving). That put a lot of unnecessary pressure on Braxton. Kids cannot just separate that kind of thing from their lives. They have to have a level of trust and respect for their parents. He was put on the defensive seat for his dad and no kid should have to do that. So when people say that JD is not responsible for his suicide, there’s no way one can know that to say for certain. I think JDs behavior certainly could have contributed to the already challenging life Braxton had because of the out-lash against his father.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Paul Joseph,
Your honesty and loyalty toward JD is sincere. You embrace JD’s brand of Theology and the way he delivers his message and you are exercising your “free will” to be involved in his church.
I don’t agree with his methodology whereas you can and do.
When JD revealed to me that he repetitively reminds his congregation 2 to 3 times every service of their unworthiness I find JD tipping the scales in favor a very heavy-handed ministry based on more of a Law, Sin, Self and Works Centered Ministry rather than Christ Centered.
Now we aren’t all clones, that type of methodology is something you embrace or need. I grew up Catholic and they too surround more time in a repetitive poems and repetitively focusing on unworthiness, the law, sin, works, self, which is one of the reasons why I stopped being a Catholic and became a Baptist which offered more balance and of unworthiness and redemption.
The people in our Baptist church understand how unworthy we are without Christ, We will never lose site of that unworthiness so we don’t “strictly” focus on just that part of scriptures 2 to 3 times a service 52 weeks a year. If we did we would only need to reference the Book of TULIP and not the Bible.
I can imagine that with JD’s blunt style that you will never lose site of being unworthy even if he made this proclamation once a month. (or even once a year) But that would go against his repetitive nature and cause him to come up with more material rather than being centered within the perimeters of TULIP.
This thread’s focus, is on the flaw and sin of his heavy-handedness that he exposed on his blog Pulpit and Pen and the tragic and simultaneous tragedy that occurred during his toxic crusade.
I started to warn him repeatedly that he made his heavy-handed message loud and clear long before the Caner tragedy occurred.
Some points he sometimes may have had some merit. But his relentless crusade by all appearances lacked love and faith because instead of sharing those burdens with the the Holy Spirit he continue to take matters on his own going too far.
“Canerize the Canerization” is term he invented in his blog and for the life of me i’m failing to identify “Love” or “tough Love” toward Dr. Caner in JD’s heart.
LikeLike
Julie,
Sorry for being unclear. What I meant to convey is that his comments weren’t sinful, his intentions were. If that makes sense.
LikeLike
Yes, that makes better sense. Thanks.
LikeLike
Mark – I wonder if JD could have a different persona at his own church than the one portrayed online. I know it happens all the time with people online. For the record, people tell me that I am exactly the same online as in person. What you see is what you get. I’m the same sometimes shockingly blunt person IRL. But others feel more of a freedom behind their computer screen to “let their hair down” in ways they don’t do in person.
When I talked with JD, he was a softer, kinder, gentler man than I see in his comments. Was that because he was talking directly to me as a woman? I don’t know. He invited me to stop by if I’m ever in Montana and I absolutely would do so. I liked the JD I heard on the phone. I liked the JD I heard when he talked about his wife, his church, the ministries at his church. Paul Joseph seems like a very likable guy. He seems to be talking about the JD I heard on the phone.
For the record, the reason I originally reached out to JD was because of a nasty Twitter exchange we had privately the year before. I felt his comments were rude to me. After his public apology with the Braxton incident, he asked people to contact people to “preach to him” – I think those were his words. I thought, what have I got to lose? I was angry that a pastor would treat me the way he did and so I contacted him privately. He took care of it graciously when we communicated.
LikeLiked by 1 person
“His sin was in usurping the the natural order instituted by God, wherein the parents have authority over the children, not some third party who was “trying to get a little more info” on the child’s father.”
I’m with Keith on this one. 15-year-olds may behave like adults in many ways, but they are not completely developed emotionally.(And boys tend to lag behind girls in maturity.) There’s a reason why they are still under parental guardianship at that age. They are bridging that gap between childhood and adulthood. (I, personally, remember it as a VERY difficult age.)
It’s understood that a teacher is going to have some interaction with a student. A parent has given permission for school employees to educate his/her child. Hall had no such permission to interact with Braxton– a minor. Whether anyone thinks it was innocent or not, it’s entirely inappropriate, period.
LikeLiked by 2 people