VCY America Founder, Vic Eliason, Sends Letter Threatening Legal Action to His Daughter, Ingrid Schlueter

***

VCY America Founder sends letter threatening legal action to his daughter, Ingrid Schlueter, via attorney Patrick Russell

***

 

There’s a section in the bible on civil lawsuits in 1 Corinthians. I remember looking up this passage after I was sued by my former pastor and church. I wondered how he could call himself a pastor and still be able to preach this passage from the pulpit with honesty and integrity after suing five former church members. Here is the passage on civil lawsuits:

1 Corinthians 6:1-11

Lawsuits Against Believers

When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases?Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded?But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers!

Now, what’s interesting is the following paragraph is also part of the “lawsuits” section.  Why would this paragraph be included under Lawsuits Against Believers?  The word, reviler, is one of the choice words my pastor used against me, yet he was the one who filed a lawsuit, going against clear biblical teachings. Perhaps this passage is saying that my pastor, the initiator of the civil lawsuit against Christians, was the true reviler:

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

***

Vic Eliason Threatens Lawsuit against Family Members

Today I share with you a very sad story of another threatened lawsuit brought on by one man against his adult Christian children. We’ve seen this before in the case of Pastor Bob Grenier of Visalia Calvary Chapel who filed a civil lawsuit against his son, Alex Grenier and Tim Taylor. The Grenier case is not over. It is two years old and is currently in appeals. Can you imagine the emotional toll on Alex and Tim and their families as they have this dark cloud and financial burden hanging over their heads?

But now that brings me to this very sad situation between Vic Eliason and his daughters, Ingrid and Lisa, and their extended family (be sure to check out the comments here to see the extent to which this conflict has affected even the extended family). It’s important to note that Schlueter has sought Christian mediation to help get resolution to these conflicts to no avail (see: Of Bullies, Cowards and Decapitated Squirrels).

Vic Eliason Background

Some may be unfamiliar with Vic Eliason, so here’s some background:

In 1973, Eliason led the Milwaukee Youth for Christ chapter out of the national organization, renaming it “Voice of Christian Youth.” Now known as VCY America, it is a Christian broadcasting ministry based in Milwaukee. VCY currently oversees 15-20 stations mostly across the Upper Midwest, depending on the source, not including its Internet site, a 24-hour a day, seven days a week, television station in Milwaukee, which is WVCY-TV 30, began in 1982, as well as several “translator” and “satellator” stations. The ministry is 100 percent funded through listeners’ and supporters’ donations. (Source).

That last line about donors is important to note – more later on that. Wikipedia also adds this info in the personal section:

Eliason is married to Freda M. Eliason (born 1935), and the father of three adult children – Andrew Carl Eliason (born about 1964), who is employed as an engineer at VCY; Ingrid J. Schlueter (born about 1966), former producer and co-host of the Crosstalk Radio Talk Show on the VCY America Radio Network (resigned from VCY America in May, 2011) ; and Lisa C. Turner (born about 1968), both of whom formerly worked at the radio ministry.

Notice the key phrase in the bottom line: “both of whom formerly worked at the radio ministry.”  In addition to Ingrid and Lisa formerly working for Eliason, Lisa’s husband, Russ was fired after working for Eliason for 24 years, and Ingrid’s  husband, Tom, also worked for the ministry for 20 years.  If you’ve been counting, we’re now up to four family members no longer working for Vic Eliason’s ministry. When you look at the length of time these family members worked for Eliason and now have left or been fired, it makes one question:  what is really going on?

Ingrid Schlueter Background

Some may be familiar with Ingrid Schlueter’s ministry work.  Here is part of her bio from her blog:

My name is Ingrid Schlueter and I am a wife to Tom, mother of six children and former talk radio host of 23 years. I also published the Slice of Laodicea news and comment blog for 7 years covering some of the big issues within evangelicalism. (Source)

ingridschlueter

Tom and Ingrid Schlueter

In my opinion, Ingrid has had solid understanding of biblical truths and a keen sense of spiritual discernment, especially when it comes to corrupt Christian leaders. Some blog readers might remember when she commented on my blog about resigning from the Janet Mefferd show after Janet Mefferd confronted Mark Driscoll about plagiarism. Schlueter has seen and studied spiritual bullies and abuse in church and Christian groups. She has written some wonderful articles and produced videos helping others understand it (Ingrid’s The Hope Blog has been listed in my blog’s side bar for quite some time.)

Ok, back to the threatened lawsuit situation – take a look at the letter Russell Law Associates, LLC, sent to Ingrid and Tom Schlueter (I have redacted personal home address):

 

Letter from Attorney

 

Vic Eliason, VCY, Ingrid Schlueter, Tom Schlueter

Family disputes are very complicated. But to file a civil and very public lawsuit against your own adult children?  Please, Mr. Eliason, let’s use some common Christian sense here.

First of all, if you’re going to find an attorney, find a good one with no baggage – I’m assuming this is the same attorney, it’s the same state.

Defamation – What does it really mean?

I sometimes have to laugh when attorneys use the “defamatory” word.  It is up to the courts to decide what word or phrase is defamatory or not, not some podunk Wisconsin lawyer throwing around legalese to threaten (disclaimer: this is JA’s opinion, lest some whacknut attorney try to sue me for defamation).  Mr. Russell, you would be wise to look up defamation lawsuits and see how many cases are in fact successful.  In my lawsuit, there were twenty-something alleged defamatory phrases and in order to meet the court’s definition of defamatory, two things had to be proven:

1) that I was intentionally lying, and

2) that my intentional lying was done with malice – the intent to harm.

Disclaimer:  I am no attorney, but the words I share are based on information I learned during my defamation lawsuit (from my attorney who is a leading attorney on First Amendment in Oregon, and other sources).

Now, if Ingrid Schlueter is telling her story as she see it, that is her perceived truth. In court, Ingrid’s perceived truth would not be judged as a lie (even if it is in fact a lie). The plaintiffs in a defamation lawsuit would have to prove that Ingrid (and her sister, or anyone else named in the lawsuit) intentionally lied.  I happen to believe Ingrid is telling the truth, but of course my opinion doesn’t matter in court.  Okay, this is only the first level of the legal definition of defamation. We now move on to the next part, malice.

Let’s say that it is proved in court that Ingrid has lied (again, very difficult to prove), now the plaintiff must prove the intent of Ingrid’s heart – or malice.  How in the world do you prove that?  Again, in my case, not one of the alleged defamatory comments met even the first-level criteria of the court’s definition of defamation. If one cannot prove that someone intentionally lied, it’s going to be very difficult to prove in court someone had the intent to harm.  Good luck with that one, Mr. Eliason and Mr. Russell.

Legal Letter:  Really a legal matter or form of bullying or reviling?

Let’s just cut to the chase. This letter from Attorney Patrick Russell is a farce. He is throwing around big words acting like he’s going to make a real case over this situation. He doesn’t have one. It’s a bully method to tell someone to shut up (disclaimer:  Julie Anne’s opinion).  Abusers and bullies use all sorts of methods to control and using civil courts and threatening letters is just one more method. It happened to me, it happened in the Grenier lawsuit, and now we see it here with Ingrid Schlueter’s father.

It’s important to acknowledge what this really is and what it is not. This letter is Vic Eliason’s attempt to control who can talk. It is not an honest attempt to resolve conflict in a Biblical fashion (as the Schlueters have attempted to do via a mediator). It is certainly not appropriate behavior for a Christian to sue another Christian. It is not loving and gracious.  Is this what the 1 Corinthians passage is referring to when they use the word reviler? There is no humility in paying an attorney to bully family members. Imagine what family times might be like with the Eliason, Schlueter, and extended families. I suspect Thanksgiving and Christmas will be a bit solemn as this fractured family reels with a pending lawsuit over their heads.

This shameful situation is now public. I hope Mr. Eliason will retract his attorney’s ridiculous letter and handle his family conflict using appropriate Biblical methods. This public display of suing family members in the civil courts makes him look like a fool and a bully.

Note to VCY America Donors

An important note to VCY America donors:  I sure hope VCY America donors realize that hiring an attorney costs quite a lot of money. If this threatening letter results in a court case, it will likely be a lengthy one. Unfortunately, Wisconsin does not have anti-SLAPP laws to protect private citizens from frivolous defamation lawsuits, so this could drag on for years, incurring quite a bit of legal costs.  The price tag of my very short defamation lawsuit  was around $100,000 with combined attorney fees and court costs. A lengthy court case could easily be much more. Mr. Eliason will most likely lose the case, as most defamation lawsuits are lost. When he loses, he will probably have to pay for the defendants’ attorney fees, as well as his own. When you donate, will your money go to support this unbiblical lawsuit?  Is this where Jesus would have you send your money?

 

related articles:
Of Bullies, Cowards and Decapitated Squirrels
This blog article outlines important details of ongoing struggles in this case:

“Vic Eliason recently sent a job termination letter to his son-in-law, Russ Turner, who has worked at VCY America for 24 years as a quiet, faithful and honest employee who is loved and respected by his co-workers. The letter of termination was laughable, particularly the claims that the buildings and grounds department (Russ and Paul) was being “decommissioned” (right as the snow season starts), and is being replaced with a “highly skilled team.” Vic signed the letter “the Governing Board.” The letter contained not a single thank-you for 24 years of faithful service.” ~Ingrid Schlueter

Vic Eliason Threatens to Sue Daughters and Families

“My sister called tonight and asked if I’d checked the mail. I hadn’t. Vic Eliason, our father, is threatening to sue us for attempting to get this shameful situation into biblical mediation with Peacemakers. He is characterizing all we have spoken, the truth, as defamation.” ~Ingrid Schlueter

“The present scenario facing our families has resulted in Vic and VCY America rattling legal sabers in an attempt to scare away natural consequences. The old secular TV game show of the 60’s and 70’s had it right–“Truth or Consequences.” The truth, which has slowly been coming out over the past three and a half years (actually over 25 years), is taking its natural course, shedding light on shadowy things–things that in the world of narcissism ought never be spoken.” ~Tom Schlueter

 

 

 

138 comments on “VCY America Founder, Vic Eliason, Sends Letter Threatening Legal Action to His Daughter, Ingrid Schlueter

  1. The thing is, terriergal, you don’t even have to understand the details of what has taken place – this public behavior speaks for itself. Refusal to attempt mediation and instead hiring an attorney to threaten and shut people down is bully behavior, period.

    It reminds me so much of my own case. He had already sued 4 of us and then once Meaghan spoke out publicly on my blog, she was added to the lawsuit. This was a clear message he was sending to her and to everyone else in the church that if you dared to speak publicly, you would likely get sued. This is ridiculous.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Terrible. Vic is a (rhymes with Vic, starts with a d).

    I feel bad for Ingrid and her sister. I know what it’s like. Vic is the typical bully. Only one way to deal with a bully abuser, hit them in the mouth. If that doesn’t work, hit them with a shovel. If that doesn’t work, grab a bigger shovel (metaphorically speaking).

    Gotta get the word out to Vic’s donors…they’ll be paying for his un-biblical defamation suit meant to bully his victims into silence.

    Like

  3. It occurs to me to wonder why VCY split from YFC. I am starting to see that wayward leaders tend to leave a pattern of messes in their wake, not just one blowup that makes the papers. Now these things DO tend to blow up all at once, as people formerly cowed start to speak up all at once, but I don’t believe that the signs weren’t there for people to see if they wanted to see.

    Like

  4. IMO this is exceptionally cruel in that Ingrid has a chronic illness that IIRC is stress sensitive. I want to say fibromyalgia or something similar. I know she’s written about it on her blog before. Eliason knows this perfectly well, surely, being her father.

    I mean, who does this to their own kids anyway?

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Methinks there must be something big worth hiding for Vic to go after his own family like this. That was certainly the case with the lawsuits against Julie Anne and Alex.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. BTDT; wouldn’t be surprised.

    One other thing that comes to mind is that church employment in general, and mega-church leadership specifically, seems to have attracted more than a fair share of narcissistic personality types. Read most of a book about “psychopaths in the board room” or some such thing about the same phenomenon in big companies.

    Not quite sure how to get rid of it, but it almost seems that every incoming deacon/elder ought to have an initiation ritual of a knock-down-drag-out theological argument to see how he responds. You only pass if you fight fair (real arguments).

    Or some such thing.

    Like

  7. BTDT said, “Methinks there must be something big worth hiding for Vic to go after his own family like this.”

    Yup, that’s my read. Usually the abusers resort to this when they know what they’ve done and they’re afraid of it going public so they’ll be found out for the jerks they really are. They use the lawsuit as a weapon to silence their victims.

    Wishing the best for Ingrid and her sister.

    Like

  8. Ah, how young and naive I was when I was told that revealing the truth to me could lead to “legal ramifications” – and I thought that meant that they could sue me! It would take me a decade to finally wrap my head around the fact that I was the one who could bring “legal ramifications” upon them. But, using those kinds of scare tactics did their job – they shut me up for a very long time. Some days, I truly wish I had the money to actually make them suffer “legal ramifications” – even though I’m a Christian, I think they proved that they were not.

    Like

  9. I would also hope that ‘ministries’ would not condone such behaviour and break ties with having any programming or interviews aired on VCY. I still have email correspondence in which I questioned ‘their’ association with VCY considering the situation. They said Vic had told them he was praying for reconciliation. There was no commitment to press Vic to ‘do more than pray’ and when I pressed them further; there was no reply …. I think my last email may have come across as a snarky, not meek and mild-mannered woman:-( I felt I had justifiable righteous anger:-)

    Like

  10. Reconciliation for Vic and his family is as close as getting in his car on I-94 and driving ten minutes to his daughters’ homes to ask for forgiveness for years of sin against them and his ten grandchildren, the youngest of which who doesn’t even know who he is. He has never once called nor contacted either Lisa or Ingrid in three and a half years, despite numerous attempts to reach out to him. If he was interested in reconciliation, he wouldn’t be sending legal threat letters when professional Christian mediators were requested. He would have welcomed it with open arms. He lies.

    Like

  11. When I first became a “Christian” I was told to love my church “family” and I had to let my earthly unbelieving family have that much power in my life. They were not “saved” ™ so I should not get too close as they were tools of Satan sent to decieve me. Well when I got the left foot of fellowship I had really no choice to go back to my earthly family. With all the stuff that happened to us as kids and all the crap we dealt with my parents would never sue any of us, they lacked that spiritual maturity and God centered view of revenge and intimidation. Even when we had a great lawsuit concerning my fathers death we did not sue because it would have dishonored him. We would have won and we would have got money (which is and always should be number one-ten thousand on the to do list.) But we did not, actually it never crossed our minds. Another reason we are scum and worshipers of Satan.

    A true follower of the Prince of Peace is one that is willing to go to war at the drop of a hat, especially with fellow family members. One should not forgive or take prisoners, we should not shoot our wounded that is far too merciful we should gut bayonet them so they bleed out slow and make sure everyone else sees it so they dont get uppity. It really is a very strange religion it really is.

    Liked by 1 person

  12. I didn’t know anything about this at all and now I think this man, previously unknown to me, is a jerk. It would seem to me that the threat to sue one’s own daughters is not only morally wrong but incredibly self absorbed and awfully stupid. I have no idea what this man’s problems are; most people in this country have never even heard of him, no matter how important he thinks he is. This bizarre threat makes me curious, however; I cannot help but wonder what he has done and to side with his daughters.

    Someone should tell him about the Streisand effect. She sued a photographer for publishing photos of her estate on the Internet – it was part of a photographic essay on coastal erosion. There had only been six views until she filed the lawsuit. Then the next month there were 420,000.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Some days, I truly wish I had the money to actually make them suffer “legal ramifications” – even though I’m a Christian, I think they proved that they were not.

    I hear you, Ellen. I had a LOT of people telling me to counter-sue my former pastor.

    It’s so important for people to realize that this behavior is emotionally and spiritually abusive – it’s not just about a civil lawsuit. My former pastor wrote an 18-page diatribe of why he was biblically justified to sue us. I wonder if he’s shared his notes with Mr. Eliason.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. I read the diatribe Julie anne no offense but your former pastor could not exegete his way out of a wet paper bag. If he personed up I hate the phrase manned up, he would have admitted he got ticked off at your review of his church, apologized reconciled and moved on. Its on him. Talk about people who need to grow up.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. you cannot imagine how much I appreciate Ingrid. in the early days she was one of the only ones blogging about all the junk going on in churches. I found her blog, Slice of Laodicea, somewhere around 2005 or 6and it was like finding manna in the desert at that time in my life.

    I am not entirely sure what the issues are but I sensed something was brewing several years ago. the only quibble I have with any of this is her calling on peacemakers. I do not trust them for many reasons which are too numerous to go into here.

    I do not buy into the idea of official Christian mediation.

    her dad is not young. has he really chosen to spend his latter years totally estranged from his children and grands? and not just estranged but trying to ruin their lives?

    there is actually a passage in the scriptures that speaks to this very thing. I have this very thing in my own family. part of it is the evil of hanging on to these so called Christian institutions and making them more important than actual people

    Like

  16. Not only should Vic have reached out for reconciliation, but he also should have begged Ingrid to come back to VCY America. Listening to Vic Eliason on the radio on Crosstalk made me cringe simply because he would put people on air and make assertions that were just woefully inaccurate, as I understood, making it clear to me that he had done little to no research before the radio program.

    Ingrid, on the other hand, was the only reason I listened to that program for as long as I did. She was always well prepared, had her topics well planned and researched, and the one time I pointed out something to her that wasn’t accurate, she quickly corrected her reporting. She was and still is, in my opinion, a class act.

    As the say, the surefire defense for an accusation of slander, or defamation in this case, is the truth. You can’t slander someone if what you are saying is true. I believe her, and this is why I believe this letter is an empty threat.

    Like

  17. Lydia,

    I agree with you on Peacemakers. That is the last place I would go to for Christian mediation. The idea is a good one, but they seem to have an agenda to defend churches/organizations first. A mutually accepted godly man/pastor/Christian counselor would likely do better.

    Sadly, if Vic is like the others in the pattern he is presenting, he will be proud, without love, and will never humble himself or even want to seek reconciliation. The way the pattern works: ” it’s my way or no way.”

    What a lonely way to live in your final years. What a waste for all.

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Hmmm! since Vic is a 501c3? Maybe Secretary of State should come in and investigate if he is doing anything illegal and the Head of IRS of embezzling, fraud etc. What does he own, net worth, Property etc. Alex, same for your father, can anyone come forward on such matters after reading Phoenix Preacher blog from 0ctober 2009 (will clarify what post).
    Find out from these two entities, who gets the money and owns property regarding 501c3 if pastor dies or sale’s etc.
    example: foursquare movement sold 2 buildings, paid 10 million for one building and sold for 250 million (both buildings netted 350 million; where did that money go and who benefited? It’s people tithe money, gifts, alms and offerings that bought those buildings, sacrificed their time and families. Does any movement give back to the people since God does not get any money, nor the poor, homeless for the most part)? Order your churches 501c3 see what own, worth, business, acquired entities etc. Take Vic to all media to investigate. Where’s the fruit in his family, and Christianity at the end of his life with all this?

    Like

  19. JA, I will repeat what a retired judge who does mediation now once told me about who you choose to mediate such things: do you insist your accountant is a Christian? your dentist? your doctor? No, you probably want someone who has a lot of expertise in that profession who is not approaching it with a personal agenda. if you read peacemakers materials you will see they have a hierarchical agenda.

    BTW, the retired judge was a Christian. a Christian who is weary of the silliness in Christianity. if I were ingrid I would want someone who knows the intricacies of the law. but that does not go down well in Christian circles if we are concerned about our image in such venues. I am more concerned about her and her family’s protection.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. Regarding “WOW”s comment, generally speaking the law does not authorize a fishing expedition into the finances and affairs of anyone without clear indication that a crime has been committed. Think 4th Amendment, and if it were not so, “we the little people” would have the most to fear. The power junkies of the world work precisely by twisting the structures they find to their purposes.

    In my view, the key takeaway is the question of how errant church leaders can be dealt with. Optimally, we would find what kind of situations they love, and (within the bounds of Scripture) work to avoid those.situations.

    And sorry, I don’t have any firm conclusions on the matter. I am philosophically against super-large churches, but have to admit that some rather autocratic leaders are in smaller churches, too. I”m thinking it has to start with a quorum of the members being (a) discerning enough to see problems and (b) willing to speak up about it. And that’s not an easy thing to do.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. I am looking at the last 990 that the organization filed with the IRS which was for the year 2012. I am not seeing anything that jumps out at me as problematic.

    Like

  22. The angle of financial impropriety is interesting–though it seems that usually some other impropriety comes out first. In this case, it could be instances of harassment traceable to Vic Eliason.

    Like

  23. Lydia, the reason I said “Christian” mediator is because many Christians wouldn’t consider doing this kind of business with someone other than a Christian. This is kind of like the same idea with counselors – some wouldn’t think of going to a secular counselor.

    Like

  24. Relevant text for why Christians ought to have a Christian mediator is 1 Cor. 6: 1-11, I believe, which notes that God’s people ought to resolve their differences within the church.

    And yeah, a lot of times we do a really, really poor job of this, so I’m hardly surprised that many cringe at implementing this.

    Like

  25. Lydia, I agree on the Peacemakers thing. I wonder if she won’t end up with a better deal going (being dragged down) this route than she would have with Peacemakers.

    I also agree on her exposing the junk going on in Christendom. I used to listen to VCY America and found her very helpful at a time when I needed information on some things.

    She calls ’em as she sees ’em, that’s for sure, and is no respecter of persons.

    Like

  26. 1st Corinthians 6 is for trivial matters. This is not trivial matters. people have lost their livelihoods and are enduring constant character assassination with false accusations. And, they have family to support.

    I know in this world of thinking that Christians have to sin all the time and can’t help it is a bit hard to have this discussion.

    justice and restitution are Judeo Christisn precepts. We just rarely see them practiced by those in power. which should tell us something

    Like

  27. Pingback: Reblog: Ingrid Schlueter and another threatened defamation lawsuit - Nyssa's Hobbit Hole

  28. I’m sorry, can someone please explain to me why everyone is siding with Ingrid here? She is herself a fairly vicious individual who frequently played fast and loose with the truth on SOL.

    Like

  29. I am siding with Ingrid despite the fact that I disagree with a number of her opinions because her father is behaving badly. He should not be threatening legal action against both daughters.

    Like

  30. Quote: “She is herself a fairly vicious individual who frequently played fast and loose with the truth on SOL.” Having been married to Ingrid for nearly 20 years and having known her longer than that, I feel like I am qualified to say that Mosessister is bearing false witness against my wife. Ingrid is the least “vicious” person I have ever met. I will say that my only regret is that she spent as long as she did with “Christians” who really were vicious, because she has suffered greatly for the crime of sharing her beliefs publicly. The abuse she took online would have destroyed a lot of us, but she persevered and continues to be a beautiful, kind and loving wife, mother and friend to many. Just wondering, Mosessister, why you post under a fake name, when Ingrid and I are brave enough to attach our names to what we share. Something to ask yourself.

    Liked by 3 people

  31. Mosessister,

    What does that exactly mean, “played fast and loose with the truth?”

    I used to read SOL. So what, she was snarky against those who maligned the gospel? You probably won’t like it here, either.

    I suppose you had problems with Jesus tossing tables and getting irate at Pharisees, too?

    Liked by 1 person

  32. Tom – Welcome to SSB, I’m so sorry your family is having to deal with this very hurtful abuse. Emotional abuse is very difficult, and especially when it comes from family. I’m glad you are so supportive of Ingrid and that your family is supporting each other.

    After rereading Mosessister’s comment, I felt an instant kinship with Ingrid. Vicious is the same word used against me by my former pastor’s wife when I (and others) spoke out against my former pastor because of his spiritual abuse. om Rich took note of her response in his article here: http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2012/07/bloggers-2-pastors-0-julie-anne-smith.html

    Here’s the way I look at it – if we are getting furious about the things Jesus would be furious about, we have no reason to personalize those “vicious” remarks. I make like a duck and the water just rolls down my back: quack, quack 🙂

    Prayers for you and your family, Tom. Hang in there!

    Liked by 1 person

  33. Moses’ sister, take a look at 1 Corinthians 6:1-11 and then take a look at the Schlueter’s website. Even if what you say is true, I would argue that the father appears to be out of line for (a) going to unbelievers to air these things out and (b) actions that he knows will impoverish his own children and grandchildren.

    So no matter what the facts of the situation prior to this are, Eliason is in the wrong.

    Regarding the facts of the matter, I can’t speak for what did or did not happen between the participants inside or outside of VCY (as I don’t know them), but speaking from my trade as a quality engineer, a high turnover rate at any company is a sign that there is a problem with management and corporate culture. So there is something there, even if I cannot personally point out what it is.

    Like

  34. Bike Bubba,

    If you go to Ingrid’s site, you can see family members commenting. How many grandchildren would publicly speak out against grandpa without a reason. One of the grandchildren said they hadn’t seen grandpa in years and you could tell by the comment it was Vic Eliason’s choice, not theirs. Something is not right about this. Family comes first.

    Liked by 2 people

  35. My two grandsons are the delight of my life. I cannot imagine that any differences that I might ever have with my daughter could lead to an estrangement from her or the boys. I read some of Ingrid’s blog and her children are just wonderful! There is something very wrong when a father and grandfather doesn’t want to reconcile.

    Liked by 1 person

  36. Gracious hostess, well put. I would agree that there are some rather nasty signs there and elsewhere.

    That said, my point is really simple; if indeed accountability starts at the top, then the first thing I look at in any dispute between a “spiritual leader” and others is whether he’s handling it Biblically. The trick is that if you get caught up in the leader’s allegations against others–say the family is not in fact living an exemplary Christian life, but is in fact running a meth lab, shooting DEA agents, and offering wayward girls as human sacrifices in pagan rites ** –you’ve allowed that leader to change the subject. Moreover, in decades with family members, the leader is going to have some things that are true. So if you engage on that basis, you’re wrestling with a pig– you get filthy and the pig enjoys it.

    So my counsel is for the family to keep their eye on the ball. Even if the worst allegations against them were true, it does not change the fact that Vic is ignoring 1 Cor. 6:1-11 and 1 Tim. 5:8 by suing his own family into the poorhouse. Once that issue is resolved–either through abandonment of legal action or if VCY’s supporters abandon them–then the differences between the parties can be addressed. Ignore the claims for now.

    ** And for the humor impaired, I am of course NOT accusing anyone, let alone the Schlueters, of running a meth lab, shooting DEA agents, or sacrificing wayward girls on a bone-fire.

    Liked by 1 person

  37. Well, I was actually saving my legal hide…… :^)

    Seriously, let’s keep our eyes on what’s really important here, especially regarding the principles that (a) how things are done matters and (b) accountability for leaders comes first. Eyes off the bright shiny objects.

    Like

  38. This family case scenario is heart breaking…..to the core of my being. I read this once and couldn’t even offer a comment, just had to go out to the back forty and shed tears over the hurt and pain these families are suffering. The outback is always a wonderful place to worship our LORD in spirit and truth in speaking to Him directly through song and prayer in asking for His intercession with the problems of living these brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ are experiencing.

    The Body of Christ is a living organism, and those of us who are born of the Spirit, are called to offer up prayers and petitions on behalf of the hurting and suffering to the only Mediator we have, Jesus, who is the true counselor of our faith. Having shared a similar experience in receiving a legal letter from a paternal family member regarding “things of this world”, I am literally broken over this whole matter and can empathize as well as sympathize with this family’s pain. It can literally be a lingering thorn in the side of the flesh where there is no acknowledgement of sin, thus no repentance on behalf of the perpetrator. And the suffering that takes place must ALL be given to Jesus as you suffer with Him at the Cross, for only a few can relate to this family; those who share in similar circumstances.

    Pride must diminish as we humble ourselves before our Mighty King in praying for these suffering souls who desire a relationship with their loved one. Jesus desires a relationship with all of us through Him and His Words, and so we pray.

    And pray some more for there is only power in His Words…..

    “The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous,
    And His ears are open to His cry.
    The face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
    To cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
    The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears,
    And delivers them out of all their troubles.
    The LORD is near those who have a broken heart,
    And saves such as have a contrite spirit.
    Many are the afflictions of the righteous,
    But the LORD delivers him out of them all.
    He guards all his bones;
    Not one of them is broken.
    Evil shall slay the wicked,
    And those who hate the righteous shall be condemned.
    The LORD redeems the soul of His servants,
    And none of those who trust in Him shall be condemned.”
    Psalm 34:15-22

    No one speaks it like our GOD. Falling on our faces in humble prayer before You, O LORD, for this precious family. Your Will be done, in the precious Name of Jesus. Amen.

    Liked by 3 people

  39. Julie Anne, Tom/Ingrid.

    Contact John Whitehead of Rutherford Institute and see if you have a case. Also contact Trinity Foundation in Dallas Texas, ask for Pete and ask him for the name of that oversight group that holds ministries accountable, (Evangelical ?; they’ve been trying to hold crouches, hinn’s accountable for years). Pete might know of other agencies to help as well; and they also investigate ministries like this, look at their track record, made Dateline, Sixty Minutes etc with a lot of false ministries corruption (order the DVD’s), they also have magazine called Wittenburg Door, wonderful group. Look at their webpage. My lawyer specializes in libel/slander/deformation lawsuits.

    Like

  40. I’m siding with Ingrid because anytime someone claims that he “just knows” that his daughter & son-in-law are leaving decapitated rodentia on his lawn, I am alerted to a person who is so angry that he has forgotten the existence of Felis Domesticus.
    My larger cat could decapitate a squirrel faster than Mosesdaughter can say “Jack Robinson”. The little one would bring me the only partially dead critter & let ME behead it; been there, done that, got the T-shirt. (Never flush a decapitated squirrel, the plumbing repairs will put you in deep, deep debt).

    Like

  41. Tom S said… Just wondering, Mosessister, why you post under a fake name, when Ingrid and I are brave enough to attach our names to what we share. Something to ask yourself.

    Tom, I agree and one would almost think that this, Mossessister, is Vic E himself, disguising as someone else, because he has done this before.

    Like

  42. Zooey111,

    Just a huge shout out to you (On the farm, we are blessed to be equipped with a loud personal intercom system that resonates from within and can be heard for miles………ie., open the front door and yell across the farm, Diiiinnnnnnnneeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrr.”, and they all come a-runnin.), for your sense of humor is amazing! Simply awesome!

    Have you ever seen a squirrel go through the combine with the soybeans? Not pretty, and the soybeans win. Share in your appreciation for cats!

    Thank-you for the laugh! Hoping and praying the Schlueter families will still have joy in our LORD amongst their trials and tribulations. Our God says “a bruised reed He will not break.” That is His promise.

    Like

  43. One thing I should add here is that I am personally impressed that the victims here do not appear to be suing. Good application of 1 Cor. 6. I wish the Schlueters well, whatever God has in store for them, and trust that our gracious hostess will keep us posted.

    Liked by 1 person

  44. Bubba, you really have misunderstood 1st Corinthians 6. it was for trivial matters. firing someone who has a family to support for no good reason is not trivial.

    is it because you think that anyone who claims to be a Christian is actually a Christian? we are getting back to the idea that behavior does not matter when it comes to claiming Christianity.

    too many charlatans are trotting out that verse as an xscape hatch while they have attorneys write their membership covenants.

    Like

  45. BTW, I am notvseeing where her father is suing. he used an attorney to threaten them. most churches these days have legal representation for all sorts of things. every single mega church I work with legal counsel some of them had one on staff. I find that reprehensible but I also see the flip side of it that the pew sitter has no clue. the piece of hair does not walk in the door of thinking they had better look at legal ramifications of everything they say or do there.

    there are times when discoveryis a much needed process to out a charlatan.

    Like

  46. Lydia, I simply don’t read 1 Cor. 6. that way. Apart from criminal cases, I think Paul is telling people to go to the church for justice, and the only “out” is when a person demonstrates that he is to be treated as an unbeliever and 1 Cor. 6 (and Matthew 18:15-19) no longer apply.

    And yes, many churches do “close ranks” around prominent members, and I would wonder if Vic Eliason’s church would do the same. In that case, however, you’ve still got the legal document from Eliason that proves without a doubt that Eliason is threatening to sue his own family into the poorhouse. Take it to his donors.

    And agreed; many churches have legal counsel on staff, some for legitimate reasons like dealing with government authorities, vendors, and the like, and some because they do not trust God’s Word in this matter. Maybe we ought to stay away from churches where the staff does not trust God’s Word in this.

    Like

  47. Bubba, churches have insurance. who writes the insurance policies with all the fine print? Lawyers, of course. most pastors even have some sort of policy for legal protection. the institutional church makes sure that it is protected financially using lawyers. para church organizations do the exact same thing.

    so how is the pewsitter protected who pays for all of it? They aren’t. and that is my point.

    but if they are wronged, they are considered in sin if they use the same legal system.

    I just think we need to be very open and transparent about all of this and think it through very carefully.

    let’s ask ourselves why a church would need LEGALESE insurance policy to protect it from members who are paying for it. do you see that as justice on the front end? yet when the same system wrongs them they are considered in sin if they use legal means for protection.

    most pastors and even parachurch organizations use legal means to protect them in case they are ousted. that is because a livelihood is very important. yet you think it wrong for someone else who might work for the church or para church to use the same legal means to protect their livelihood.

    you have a very different view of justice than I do. your brand of justice seems to be in the hands of those with power.

    Like

  48. Bubba, most of the megas I worked with had either lawyers on retainer or legal counsel on staff. the reason is because they are sued quite often. many times for very good reason. but nobody ever wins because they sue the institutional church. big mistake because churches can get by with just about anything.

    now suing individuals to hold them accountable for their behavior in misusing their power and position which harms another person is quite another thing. but for the most part power is misused because they know they can get by with it. they have made sure they are protected but the nobody staffer or pew sitter is not.

    Like

  49. Take it to the donors? don’t you understand that those lists are protected legally? that is part of my entire. The legal protections are on the front end they have already used the legal system for their own benefit.

    they can blog about it and hope and pray the word gets out but that’s about it. they cannot use the list.

    Like

  50. Lydia, again, I agree 100% that many large churches show little deference to Scripture in how they arrange their affairs in that they over emphasize law and avoid using God’s Word as a means of resolving disputes. I am glad that I have never been a part of one of them, and I’ve been a deacon at three churches.

    Now the threat of a lawsuit can encourage churches to do the right thing–the children’s policy I wrote is one such example–and it does not necessarily mean that the church is violating my interpretation of 1 Cor. 6. It can simply mean, per Romans 13, that the threat of law reminds us to do the right thing. For example, I would guess that the rapid disassembly of Vision Forum is the result of a well placed letter to James Leininger.

    And along those lines, this also means that the Schlueters and others are not without recourse. The official donor list is of course not available, but are we to believe that people who worked for VCY for 20 years have no idea who’s on the board of directors, who’s a big donor, and who the ministry partners are?

    Now it could be that nobody associated with VCY would care about legal bullying in violation of 1 Cor. 6 (and likely to take families into the poorhouse), and in that case, we ought to separate from them for this reason. And that is another way Vic Eliason is punished–without listeners, his network collapses.

    Same basic thing for a church. When my family recently left a church because they were using a teacher credibly accused here of abuse of power, love of money, and just plain poor exegesis of Scripture, we didn’t just leave an empty pew. We left a hole in the budget and multiple holes in ministry.

    Like

  51. Bubba, You missed my point entirely. If you have to have a policy that passes muster with the insurers, you have already bowed to the legal culture and used it on the front end to protect your reputation and that of the institution..

    Why would a “Body of Christ” need such a thing?

    Think of it. Because it is not “trivial”? I am basing my question on your interpretation of 1 Corin 6.

    Keep in mind, 1st Century culture was looking for adjudication AFTER the fact. Paul was speaking of Roman adjudiation over trivial matters. The believers were not hiring lawyers to protect them on the front end like we do today.

    Like

  52. I don’t think I missed your point at all. I simply disagree with you about the nature of 1 Cor. 6. When Paul calls things a “trivial” or “small” matter in 1. Cor. 6:2, he appears to be speaking of earthly matters–torts, monetary claims, and the like–vs. the judging of angels. One might infer that some of us will take part in throwing Satan’s minions into Hell, or some such thing.

    You, on the other hand, view “small” as in light of small court matters–Judge Wapner or Judge Judy and the like. We simply disagree.

    And as such, I see a fundamental difference between using non-Christian authorities for wisdom (like the rabbinic and other schools attended by Paul and probably Christ and some of the other Apostles) and appealing to secular authorities for judgment in matters between believers. One is exhibited in Scripture, the other is prohibited.

    Like

  53. What would happen if the Board of VCY America would give Vic his walking papers? It would be a gutsy move but it needs to be done. It should have been done years ago.

    Like

  54. I do not know much, but I know God has forgiven me a sinner , born again years ago and believe it or not , nurtured in my faith by mostly flawed but forgiven people. These folks somehow by grace were used powerfully in my life , pushing me closer to Christ. They lead me by their example , and tipping me to ministry where I in turn carried the torch on and actually may in fact have touched or reached or won or sent even more for The Lord Jesus than they did……Just a result of their servanthood and because of Christ working through them and touching me so so powerfully. (Please: anyone who reads this must know I only boast in the Lord, not a credit not even one ever given to me . )

    This kind of servanthood was indeed what Vic and YFC and VCY did for me…they discipled me, shaped me , and as a result, I modeled and reproduced that passion for reaching and building youth and the lost , and experiencing loving the Lord and His work.

    Getting the joy and privilege to work with the most prestigious of Christ followers (big names some call them ) and have many of them become personal friends, I have had to manage my expectations wisely by simply recalling the saints that have gone before us , so terribly full of moments of failure , sin , and loss of virtue. If I told you their stories that I personally observed and experienced , and you knew the inside stuff, it would shock you as it once did me. Yet God still used them and in fact is still using them. Blessed be the name of the Lord. They have many regrets I am sure. I sure do.

    So ..here I am….I was surfing the net looking to see what was going on with an old mentor of mine. This was what I found , just another sad story…a moment…. people disrupted from the failure of mere men and woman, a result of the nature we all have when we do not tend to be the person Christ would have us be.

    The temptation to judge others is always renewed when we hear even more stuff , you know….. what Paul seems to label “dung” . I take not sides for I know so little. It is to be left to a much higher court. I have such a log in my eye how could I go for the specks in others. Or even the log jams they may have sometimes.

    The reality is…some of Christian life has caused me much disappointment over the years. I have come to learn to love and forgive. To try and speak words of life not death. To live Eph. 4:32…. for indeed kindness matters and tenderheartedness is important. To focus on the good in others and good they have done for years. Most of all how God has forgiven me and asks just that I follow His example to forgive others.

    The fact that this is exposed must be so painful for you all who are close to this in any way. I now am asked to respond as Phipp. 2:1-6 the way God and Paul asks me to.

    Thankyou Vic and family for all the good work for so long. Do more and do it better. What you did for my father my brothers and friends , and especially me in the late sixties , was to plant seeds , water the soil, and then pick ripe fruit. I followed your motives and desires …..and for all my adult life God gracefully used me in spite of myself. Sometimes my methods were so short of anything that looked right but my motives were mostly and still are Lord willing , pure.

    You are all precious in the sight of the Lord. You are all so forgiven… so forgive one another. Let no root of bitterness form and do all to be at peace with all men.

    I choose now after this discovery to ask myself today “what does love require of me here?” I choose to pray and to encourage and be grateful , not as one whose head is in the sand,or cannot rightly divide the word of truth, but instead is actually intimately empathetic with such ugly moments as this.

    I does not matter who is or was right or wrong anymore it matters only that we correct the wrongs and seek to finish well. Yes, right any wrongs and let it be used ugly as it may be to glorify our Savior.

    I confess my ignorance of the details and updates , yet have read everything posted here. I am not afraid to post a name but it really does not matter. Most would never know me since I left Wisconsin over 45 years ago to prepare to minister . This is not about me but God who has shed grace on me ….and perhaps you who read this as well.

    Thank you all who “back then and even now” were and are a part of “provoking me to love and good deeds” Heb. 10:24 He who hath begun a good work in you will indeed perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

    I choose love and forgiveness these days for life is so short. I wish you all love and blessings. I will never give up on the church and it’s people who have sometimes failed me and whom I too have failed. I was mostly blessed and think on those things.

    Sincerely , Genuinely and most of all, Respectfully ,
    A brother in Jesus Christ …So Flawed but forgiven.

    Thanking my God for the wild goose chases, study guides, rallies, leaders, staff and speakers, clubs, and singspirations . ( Events that shaped my life.)

    Like

  55. Milwaukee Class of 1970 – several times you alluded to not knowing the details and yet seem to compel us to choose forgiveness.
    Perhaps you should consider contacting the victims of Vic Eliason and the board of directors for VCY? These victims are flesh and blood family members.
    Personally, as a victim of emotional and sexual abuse your comments are a trigger of desiring victims to carry the burden of “let’s just all get along now and forget” whereas the perpetrators of the sin(s) are allowed to continue their nastiness.
    You claim to be a minister? Please, I beg of you to humbly study the Word and perhaps visit the website of a Pastor Jeff Crippen who had a wake-up call concerning ‘spiritual and domestic abuse’ amongst so-called “C”hristians.
    http://cryingoutforjustice.com/contact-about-us/

    Liked by 3 people

  56. My brother or sister in Jesus. May I please clarify a possible misunderstanding?

    I claimed no such thing to be a minister..I talked about “preparing to minister” as we are all called. I also did not ask or suggest that anyone be or remain a victim or ignore truth or the consequences of sin. I do not now nor did before ask us “to all play in the sand box together even when there is throwing mud or rocks.”

    This, in my limited understanding , is a clear example of how easily misunderstandings can start and conclusions drawn, or how we can potentially race to judgement.

    If I offended you by saying what I personally choose to do with this light and information, or tried in a small way to encourage others to do in Christ, I am sorry. Please forgive me.
    You know nothing about me or my journey or my abuse , or my very clear understanding and experience of domestic and spiritual abuse. I could be the author you suggested I read for all you may know.

    “Lord guard our hearts and lips as we strive to live for you.”

    I simply shared my opinion and conviction of what I choose …love and forgiveness. I choose harmony and gratefulness and grace. Words of Life , since “words kill or words bring life” says Proverbs. Giving love and forgiveness at times has been extremely difficult and still is.

    It is my choice however, and I wish to be gracious , but when it comes to doing what we are commanded , I do not think I need to study the word any further to know what “love requires of me”. it is so clear a child can understand it. Besides I am over studied and way educated beyond my obedience. I fall so short at times. I have spent my life studying the Word and trying to live a life worthy of imitation. I know the mark of a believer is love and the world gets our Jesus best when we as believers love one another. I ask “what does love require of me ?” in ever situation good or bad . The answers I have found clearly in the Bible and they are not always easy to live out as you may know.

    I have also chosen to seek first to understand rather than be understood. It works for me more than not. Let me just say again, I wrote a response not to judge, or side or mediate. I wrote to focus on the “good us” and make known to God and others how Vic and the ministry had impacted my life positively. I stand by that affirmation and ask that you keep it there only. Please celebrate that truth and simply tolerate me if you will.

    We are all victims some how I guess, and have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I can appreciate your point of view and acknowledge it. Thank you for sharing with me and others.
    This issue is not my battle for I am not part of the problem or even the solution, nor do I choose to tell the truth about others with the intent to hurt. I hope that is clear.

    I just returned from New York where I saw the Broadway play Amazing Grace the life story of the author John Newton.
    It was so revealing again of how we all need grace and forgiveness and without it we would miss so much …including that great hymn!

    I know in my heart my motives were to write and share about how perfectly imperfect we are. Not ignoring consequences of sin, nor remaining in an abusive situation or perpetrating one . I only hoped it would encourage others to love and good deeds and allow biblical truth to set us free.

    I personally am called to love and forgive ..by faith. I tell you not what to do , but leave that up to the Word of God. My heart was to encourage …for I have learned that bitterness is the poison pill we swallow hoping our enemy will die.

    I wonder if there is truth in the fact that even not knowing the entire story in detail, we are in fact still compelled to love and forgive. I do not see Eph. 4:32 full of stipulations and conditional forgiveness. “Forgiving one another..even as Christ hath forgiven you.”
    I now ask you forgive me if I wrote or shared in any manner not pleasing to the Lord Jesus Christ .
    However, If it was the Word that possibly troubled or offended you I ask you take that up with the Holy Spirit , and I will indeed examine again what it says we are to do in this kind of situation.

    Please know I am so sorry for your continued pain and unresolved conflict if any of this assessment is true.

    Thank you for the response. Thank you all

    May the Lord bless you and keep you and shine His face upon You today and forever. I Cor. 15:58

    MC of 1970

    Like

  57. Well, the bastard is dead as of yesterday, so there can be much rejoicing. “Im so glad I’m a part of the family of God, sued by my brothers, gossiped and trod. Joint heirs in lawsuits as we travel this sod, for I’m part of the family, the family that’s dysfunctional….”

    Liked by 1 person

  58. Milwaukee Class of 1970, the public can comment on the public people who work in ministry. They cannot speak with any knowledge about family matters. The fact that Vic refused any and all reconciliation as recently as this past Monday night and then lied about his two daughters who came in peace as soon as they left the room is something you are not qualified to weigh in on. People seem unable and unwilling to wrap their heads around the fact that public figures in ministry can and often do maintain one image while the substance behind that image is far different. Take away lesson from this is that ministry idolatry and workaholism ruins families. It ruins lives. You cannot create a family and then neglect their needs spiritually and discard them when they no longer contribute to your Great Cause. Yes, celebrate and remember the public figure whose ministry helped you so much. And then please respect the fact that a public figure’s family may have an altogether different and tragic reality they must grieve over.

    Liked by 2 people

  59. This is the first I’ve heard of a family rift..none of you have said why this has happened, or what has happened..I’ve always supported VCY and am saddened to hear this..I’m sorry Vic has died, I’m sorry for his family if they are estranged. I’d like to know why so many of you are saying such bad things about him. This is shocking to me to hear of this trouble..I’ve always wondered why Ingrid was no longer on the show.. What has Vic done that was so bad????? You all comment but never say what the problem is…

    Like

  60. Hi Lynn,

    Did you click on the links at the bottom of the article? Also, you can read Tom’s comments (Ingrid’s husband) above. He shared a bit about how Vic treated the family over the years. This was not just about a spat between Ingrid and Vic. This was about Vic’s behavior with much of his family, abandoning daughters and grandchildren. Ingrid herself posted that she and her sister attempted to meet with Vic on Monday before he passed and was not welcome. He closed the door to any opportunity for reconciliation.

    Many people soften their heart when they are near death’s door. Even Westboro Baptist’s Fred Phelps was said to have softened his heart in his final days.

    Ingrid and her sister reached out to Vic, even though he was the one suing. Vic revealed his hardened heart even until his last breath.

    Liked by 1 person

  61. Lynn,

    Check out this link on Vic’s website announcing his passing. https://viceliason.wordpress.com/

    It mentions Vic’s wife, Freda, but there is nothing mentioned about children and grandchildren. When do you ever read an obituary and see children mentioned?

    I know of another person who failed to mention he had children on his bio page at his church’s website. Interestingly, this pastor is also suing his son. I’m referring to Calvary Chapel Visalia Pastor Bob Grenier.

    http://www.calvarychapelvisalia.com/index.php/about/about-pastor-bob

    Children are a heritage from the Lord, unless you are suing them . . . . ?

    Liked by 1 person

  62. Pingback: A Spotlight on Abuse | Spiritual Sounding Board

  63. I worked for WVCY back in the late 70s, I am not surprised at Vic’s behavior but it hurts. It truly saddens me that Vic wouldn’t reconcile with his family, even on his death bed!. The “Yes” Board of Directors now have their hands full as they try to move forward. The first step would be for the Board of Directors to reconcile with Vic’s daughters and families and seek the Lord’s forgiveness.

    Liked by 2 people

  64. Really, immigrant? Let’s get rid of out criminal justice system then. Policemen are sinners, how can they arrest others? And jurors, are any of them sinless? Any judges? I may be a sinner but I will call out abuse when I see it. And if I ever should be abusive to another person, I would hope that someone would point it out to me so I could recognize it and stop.

    Liked by 3 people

  65. Immigrant, if any sin makes it impossible to judge a sin or crime, then we can do nothing, and passages like Matthew 18 need to be removed from the Bible.

    In this case, what we have is more or less a confession from the late Mr. Eliason that he was not going to abide by Scripture’s prohibition of going to law with unbelievers. I think we can draw some conclusions from that.

    Liked by 1 person

  66. Ok, lets slow down with these harsh comments of Dr. Eliason, especially to the writer of this article Julie Anne. There is probably more to the story than what is public. He was one of the calmest nicest guys I new of. And if his daughter was spreading rumors to try to ruin the nice name of Vic Eliason, she deserves a lawsuit. Now, if I was Vic, I wouldn’t of filed a law suit, but its not my place to judge how he handled it. Vic is a great leader, and God surely blessed his ministry. just look where VCY is today, many radio stations, Crosstalk, WVCY TV, a website, an APP, and even though Vic has passed on, Jim will do a good job at carrying on his ministry. But all in all, cut the poor guy some slack!

    Like

  67. Zane,

    We already have the Biblical standard of 2 witnesses. How many more do we need? Are we going to pretend like this is Bill Cosby? But he’s such a good comedian. He’s been making us laugh for years. He’s a family guy. He wouldn’t do such a thing. He also is a great philanthropist. What is it now, over 50 women have come forward?

    How many do you need, Zane? Why do you believe a man and his public reputation over those who dealt behind the scenes with him personally? This is not a defend-the-abuser forum here. It’s a crying shame that his children and grandchildren are now left knowing that their dad/grandfather refused to reconcile and was bitter until the very end. What a gift he left. Not!

    Liked by 1 person

  68. Zane, how strange. We have two entire families of people, all comprised of adults, Vic’s flesh and blood. We lived it. I have no idea who the heck you are. We were there. We grew up in his house, slept on the floor of the the buildings on Kilbourn and Vliet where we spent the majority of our childhood while our parents built the great ministry. We lived the mental abuse of a man who had developed an image of fundamentalist perfection to everyone else while destroying his own family spiritually, emotionally and most recently, financially, over the course of his lifetime. Whatever he appeared to you and the rest of his sycophant followers for whom he lived, he left his own family looking like Nagasaki, the aftermath.

    11 adult witnesses of his own flesh and blood, but one guy named Zane that none of us have heard of, knows better because Vic was a “nice guy.” He certainly was, to everyone but the ones who mattered most. We are now, as his children, trying to clean up the mess he left behind personally. I will never recover from the damage he did to me as a daughter and a human being. I turned at his hospital room door 4 days before he died after trying to reach him, a futile effort. “I guess I won’t be seeing you again, Dad.” He looked up at me with dry eyes and hurled two words at me he knew would cut like a knife. That’s what I will always remember about Vic Eliason. My dad.

    Liked by 2 people

  69. Zane, I hope you’re listening.
    DeletedDaughter has just poured her heart out. Wish I could give her a hug along with the rest of the family.
    In the past I’ve had dealings with VCY … everything was fine until I began questioning them … suddenly my concerns were not receiving replies.
    Double standard = not true Christianity = Matthew 7:21- 23 (NKJV)

    21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

    Broadcasters impersonating as Christians would fall into the Matthew 7 category. Did we not read the Bible “on air” … (while we trampled our flesh and blood underfoot??)

    Liked by 2 people

  70. I read all of the posts; what did he do that most non-family members are so convinced? I don’t remember Ingrid Guzman’s demeanor to be very inviting, nor Ingrid Schlueter’s. What a pathetic ring of gossip!

    Like

  71. “I don’t remember Ingrid Guzman’s demeanor to be very inviting, nor Ingrid Schlueter’s.”
    RIP Vic — Do you mind if I hit the ball back in your court and ask you to give examples of Ingrid’s demeanor? Be careful now … you could be considered a gossip or slander if you don’t uphold your accusation.
    As for me, my previous comment gave an example of how Mr Eliason treated those who didn’t praise but questioned the function of VCY.
    It was so obvious. One in particular was a certain advertisement which upon further investigation I found that the person was not totally honest about the service they provided. When I emailed Vic (VCY) concerning this I received no reply. I attempted several times …. nothing.
    Up to this point in time I had been a faithful financial donor during their on-air requests for support. This is what hurt as I soon realized that something just did not add up. Vic gladly took in the donor’s money but did not want to be held accountable for what VCY advertised. Those advertising dollars are worth a lot, you know.
    I have worked in broadcasting; so I have a feel for what goes on when the microphone is ‘off’ … Please don’t get me going on that!

    Like

  72. I’m not playing games with you, healininhim, I just gave my opinion. Sorry you didn’t get a reply from him, perhaps a response was not merited, I don’t know how you addressed him from the start so how could I take a side? Why are you still trying to gossip and have others fall into that snare. Shame on you. As far as his alleged misappropriations of funds, I’d need evidence, not your hearsay.

    By the way, be careful yourself. Progressive liberals thrive on “feel”.

    Like

  73. Once again, we have someone defending a man based on outward appearances, but not having been behind closed doors where family deals with the reality they face. Please give it up, RIP Vic.

    Like

  74. RIP Vic – First of all I am far from being a progressive liberal (whatever that is suppose to mean)
    Also, I never once stated “…alleged misappropriations of funds…” so there is nothing to bring forth evidence for.
    As for shaming me? Nothing to be ashamed of because the Lord is my witness to my correspondence and others who have dealt with VCY.
    As for not receiving a reply? All businesses and ministries know that “all correspondence” must be dealt with otherwise it leads to suspicions and it would be even more imperative if the ministry professes to be Christian.
    I am also not playing games; I’m just stating facts the way they played out for me and defending the cause of the vulnerable.
    I have been forever grateful for the few who have come to my defense when most needed and so I do the same.
    Praying that all who are reading this thread will be blessed with God’s pure peace this Christmas and in the days ahead. I pray especially for those who have been cast aside and considered ‘unworthy’ … you are precious in His sight.
    I pray this sincerely, IN CHRIST.

    Like

  75. Julie Anne, perhaps you were behind those doors. The thing is, I don’t know who you are; most of the public doesn’t either. However, you’ve given nothing to convince me otherwise; nobody has. As a matter of fact, you just attacked me without anything substantial. Not very creditable now, is it?

    So what’s the reality anyway? What’s the severity of his actions that would merit the destruction of his reputation? I will not accept “shadowy things” as an answer; you can’t just go half the way with this.

    Let’s make this simple; I’m not pretending to know anything as this public slander is new news to me. Did this family quarrel become public knowledge before or after Vic’s legal action? Did the family have justified legal avenues pertaining to Vic’s actions? What – is – the – grand – secret? Be a good follower of Christ and help your neighbor by providing the truth.

    Think on it. I’m signing off until after Christmas day. Despite the discord, Merry Christmas! Jesus is my truest focus and Vic, a sinner as we all are, no matter how the Lord used him, helped me find the way home.

    God Bless!

    Like

  76. “Praying that all who are reading this thread will be blessed with God’s pure peace this Christmas and in the days ahead. I pray especially for those who have been cast aside and considered ‘unworthy’….you are precious in His sight. I pray this sincerely, IN CHRIST.”

    May the LORD OF HOSTS, our KING, JESUS, bless you beyond human measure,
    healinginhim, for your tender words ministered volumes to those of us who have ‘slept on the floors’ of the local church only to be trampled upon by those who deem themselves more important; those who claim to know a jesus of their own understanding, better than the rest of us low lifes/laity. I praise Jesus for your caring heart.

    With that said, my statement may ruffle a few feathers on the tail end of the crow, just sayin’ it like it is……..when I came out of an abusive lordship/lording it over church system where there was absolutely no accountability amongst the pastor and leadership, one of the venues I ran too, was the internet for Biblical understanding and fellowship. I listened to Ingrid Schlueter’s radio program as well as following her blog, among many, many others, for I was desperately in need of some wise counsel in understanding exactly what happened to me regarding religious abuse/Scripture twisting to justify sin. June Hunt’s Hope for the Heart was another source of salve for my hurting soul, for I needed a woman’s perspective on sound Biblical doctrine during that particular time in my broken life. I did not need a man’s voice ringing in my ears for I had had enough of that mess, I needed a good and godly woman’s voice speaking truth to me in relationship as to how Jesus treated the women of His day and how He still values and loves women in this day and age.

    Ingrid, if you are following this thread, I thank-you from the depths of my heart for ministering to one with whom you will never meet until that Great and Glorious Day in the presence of Jesus. May our LORD JESUS, the Christ, minister to you and your extended family, His peace, His mercy, His grace, and HIS abundant LOVE.

    Love you, healinginhim and love you too, Ingrid. Blessings.

    Liked by 3 people

  77. Katy – thank you for your very gracious and kind words.
    I want to publicly support your words concerning Ingrid. What you described is my testimony. I was not being heard by the churches when I attempted to sound the warnings of apostasy and also my own personal abusive relationship … and it still goes on. Ingrid’s life-work whether it was on-air or written ministered to me because she also displayed a Christ-honoring life as a wife, mother, sister …
    Katy,Thank you, many times over for echoing my heart and I’m sure many others are in agreement with you. Yes, I also look forward to that Great and Glorious Day when we will meet with those who love our precious Lord & Saviour, Jesus Christ.

    Liked by 1 person

  78. Ingrid was a great help to me as well back in 2004 when we left a church that seemed to be attracted to the views of the Emerging church. It was revealed to me, through her blog, the truth regarding all of the nonsense I was observing in the church at that time. I was encouraged to research on my own with Scripture passages, videos, and the blogs of others who she was tied in to. Along with that, I was able to quickly learn how to discern the truth from the lie. As believers, we all need the ability to discern and she helped me with that.

    In some ways I can relate to her story because we have a son who has gone the way of the Emerging church and doesn’t even realize it. He denies that he is a part of that. He is also involved in ecumenicalism as well as using his liberty (as a pastor) to promote drinking along with the other pastors in his network. We’ve taken him to task on those issues, but he has not changed his heart. He has displayed his anger to his father (his mother as well) in public and it saddens us because he has divided our family. We have gone the way of getting counsel from our pastor and even sitting down with our son and an elder. It’s a long story and he has caused angst within the family; yet our Father in Heaven sees, so we pray, wait and continue to watch how Jesus will handle this situation. And He will! Not to mention, He will do a much better job anyway.

    Ingrid, please know that I completely understand. Pride is such a strong sin and I see that pride is what destroyed the relationship with your father. It is the sin that has a grip on our son. We wonder how he can teach from the pulpit; and yet dishonor his parents at the same time. It just goes to show you how apostate the church has become. Pride would certainly be Plan A from Satan’s goal for domination.

    This is an observation I picked up from the Know Your Enemy series…Satan’s goal is domination and he uses Plan A and Plan B to obtain it. Plan A is manipulation, which is used from a position of weakness, where he appeals to people’s vanity and offers them the world. When manipulation doesn’t work, he uses Plan B which is intimidation through strength and violence.

    Liked by 2 people

  79. Before I go, this one is for you, Ingrid. You may want to consider abandoning this board; it has the strong appearance of a small cult-like following. I know you are an intelligent person; it’s not hard for you to see this.

    A small assembly of people in itself is not wrong, but consider the two people that I’ve interacted with here; they follow you blindly. They behaved illogical and arrogant respectively; the thread is here to examine. Do you really want to pick up your perceived pieces with these people in this manner? The record is long kept online and it certainly does not help your case.

    Peace.

    Like

  80. Dear RIP,

    I, personally came out of, ran out of, and was led out of an abusive cult-like church system where the pastor was Assembly of God ordained and trained, and a by-product of the Toronto blessing (more like ‘curse’.) I will not go into details other than the fact that within the walls (if the walls could truly speak, what secrets would they reveal?), of this institutional church system, sexual perversion from the pastor/leadership families and the destruction of marriages by these powerful individuals was at an all time high. Speaking in tongues, having extra-biblical revelations (the god spoke to me today on a regular basis) combined with visions and dream interpretation, being drunk in a spirit and flopping around on the floor like wet spaghetti, having birthing pains and coiling up on the floor as if giving birth, intense ‘love bombing-complete with hugs, kisses, and pretending to care about your spiritual life (but in fact more concerned about your financial status ((which led our family to naming our charismatic church in our will))’, and ALL of the spiritual elitism on public display for all of the world to see, including a false persecution persona (because after all, we knew a jesus of our own liking/making BETTER) than anyone else in our communities, so we believed that we were encountering persecution on a daily basis.

    No, RIP, no, no, no, no, and no-no! This blog and the folks that have offered comments on this blog are in NO way, shape, or form, a part of a cult or cult-like mentality, for I KNOW the life of attending a cult 501c. 3 church for many, many years, sitting under vile and abusive leadership with the mind of a sponge, soaking in every false doctrine possible and allowing a wicked man and leadership system to rule over my life. Cults offer up a prison type and shadow-like environment and those us who sat in the pews, not having strong personalities to stand up for ourselves, were neglected in times of poor health, in times where we needed encouragement due to difficult marital situations, and in times of financial hardship…….we were spit upon by the pastor/leadership for THEY decided who was important enough to “LOVE ON” with prayers and material blessings.

    I, among other lower laity, were left “HOMELESS” within the community of this cult church, who in fact, did not know nor love the real Jesus or our Holy Scriptures.

    As you accuse this blog of being a cult, please know that your words and your council are a loud, banging shallow gong to those of us who love our LORD Jesus Christ as our own and who serve Him, and Him alone on a daily basis, desperately relying on Him for strength, encouragement, wise council, and love. Many of us abused and neglected sheep have sought fellowship through the internet, this blog included, for the building up and fellowship of the saints, the ekklesia, the called out ones, from power hungry structures instituted by man that bear no resemblance/likeness to the assemblies/congregations of the New Testament.

    I, personally, used to listen to the likes of JD Hall, John Piper, R.C. Sproul, D.J. Kennedy, etc., until I began seeing that much of the fruits of their lives (how they lived their private lives), and the fruits of their mouths (how they interpreted the Holy Scriptures through the lens of hyper-patriarchy) just did not line up with the teachings of our Master, Jesus.

    I was told by the pastor/leadership and those who decided they were indeed, more spiritual than myself, that I needed to quit visiting this blog and the others I visit, I needed to quit visiting other ministries on the internet seeking spiritual truth, and that I needed to quit buying books and tapes concerning the Scriptures and personal testimonies, for I was told all of these were lies from satan. Another words, these were “code words” for “you do not have a mind of your own, you are not as spiritual as us, and you should not be listening to any other voice/voices apart from the ones we, the more spiritually ‘mature’ tell you.”

    I now call this ‘spiritual manure’ instead of being in the state of ‘spiritually mature.’ For the double standards reeked of rot in the fact that these individuals were consistently telling me which pastor/leader that I should listen to from the Trinity Broadcasting Network, which conferences that I should attend in our community as well as the big money conferences in the larger cities, which books, CD’s and DVD’s that I should buy and listen too in order to ‘hear the voice of god’ and which pastors/teachers that I should support financially…………talk about control, control, and more control. These are the marks 9, 10, and 11 of a CULT practicing the occult, which means “hidden knowledge.”

    I have come to call this “replacement theology” for these pseudo spiritual individuals desired to replace my Bible reading, studying, and meditating upon God’s Word for myself, allowing God, the Holy Spirit, to minister to me, individually; with their preachers and teachers, most of whom taught the twisted licorice scripture heresies in building up themselves for more power, control, and financial gain.

    Thus RIP, I will pray for you with the understanding that I believe you are accusing falsely here. The whole religious charade/façade/church cult system, that our LORD Jesus Christ delivered me out of witnesses to the pain and suffering that many of us have endured here, and the true blessings/freedom/mercy/grace and love that are found only in Jesus, the Christ. I will never, ever until my last dying breath, place my trust, faith, and hope in another pastor/leadership (deacons/deaconesses/elders/church board system) again as I have done in the past. Jesus has become my rock solid cornerstone in place of man, for I was once a sinful idolater allowing man to lord it over me. May God forgive my soul.

    Please delete Julie Ann if my words here are too offensive. There is still pain, suffering and tears within every ‘jot and tittle’ of my words and spaces.

    Liked by 3 people

  81. Dear Katy,
    Thank you for responding to RIP Vic. I was too emotionally exhausted to respond. You have spoken the hearts of many; me included. It took years for me to realize that the various forms of abuse I had been enduring from the man I married to now children, siblings and other professing Christians … well, much of it can be contributed to spiritual abuse within the church.
    It gives the church and professing Christians a black eye when secular counselors realize that the church would not come to my aid when needed.
    I do not know where God is leading in all of this? All I know is I want to remain faithful to Him and Him alone. I strive to be a Berean, even though RIP Vic implied that some of us are “blindly” following Ingrid? … Not at all. Ingrid’s work was held up with Scripture. Any references she offered in her writing or broadcasts were then researched by me.
    Much prayer has gone into all of this. Only those who have been abused will understand how we desire ‘never’ to fall into the trap of the enemy again by smooth talking wolves.

    Liked by 1 person

  82. Bless you healinginhim. I hear the cry of your heart and love and respect you for leading us to the One Who heals. Our LORD does not leave us in the wilderness for very long for He does hear our cries and sees our pain, sending people to minister to us in those times we are blinded by our circumstances, struggling to see the light of our LORD.

    I did listen to Vic Eliason on a regular basis way back when, along with those men who claimed to know the Scriptures better than most, and I did follow these men in their doctrines of stating over and over again, how it is the “men” who are to lead and minister to women. I am not commenting from the other side of the mountain, speaking things from the outside. I was there and doing all of those things that a “good and godly women” was supposed to do in order to please Christ and earn my seat in His presence. All by ‘man’s’ standards.

    These are the words from a men’s bible (?) study that my husband attended, which speaks volumes of the charismatic/Baptist church that I ran from, never looking back with any second doubts in my mind or one iota of remorse in my heart: quoting:

    Title of study “THE HUSBAND IS A SAVIOR TO HIS WIFE”

    “Read Ephesians 5:23-29. By savior, is meant not a spiritual savior but one who meets the wife’s physical and emotional needs. He (husband) is her physical and emotional savior.”

    “Both men and women have needs that must be met by the other gender. The man has two basic needs:
    1) An emotional need related to his ego
    2) A physical need for food and love

    The crowning wife will meet these needs, thereby making her husband healthy and happy.

    The woman also has two needs, but they are quite different from those of a man:
    1) Security
    2) The opportunity to care for her family”

    “A husband who is his wife’s savior will meet these two needs, thereby making his wife secure and happy.”

    It is teachings such as these that facilitate a wicked religious system for women to grow in Christ Jesus for their salvation rests upon another sinner/individual. Perhaps this is why Jesus condemned those who choose to lord it over other individuals, thus manipulating the Gospel into a power elite structure. I still listen from time to time to these men who write words such as those mentioned above, and cringe, remembering the prison from which I came and looking around me, seeing some very godly women who love Jesus as their own, following Him and ministering in the public forum……and certainly NOT speaking words such as those in that ‘man’s opinion group study!” Praise our LORD.

    I guess women don’t have an ego, nor do they exhibit a physical need for food nor love. I guess men do not exhibit a need for security nor do they desire to care for their family………what a shame the words of Jesus have trickled down to such lies as these.

    Loving the song “Amazing Grace,” from a child to now, at times juxtaposing my own words into lyrics…..

    “Amazing grace, how sweet the sound,
    That saved a sinner like me,
    I once was lost,
    But now am found,
    Was blind,
    But, Jesus helped me see.”

    Glory to His Name.

    Liked by 1 person

  83. RIP Vic, I forgive you for your ignorance and willingness to vouch for someone’s personal character without knowing them personally. My family has lived the reality. I feel no need to prove to you what we have gone through. The damage done to minds, emotions, spirits and finances is unassailable. My point is and has always been that public images of religious figures are often at odds with their personal reality behind the scenes. The info about what Vic was doing to me, his daughter and his son and law, and then his other daughter and son-in-law and our children, only went public when the abuse reached a point we cried for help. Matthew 18 was more than followed. Vic belonged to no church, ever, as a member in his life. He had no pastor. He had no professional, let alone Christian, board of directors operating for his, his family’s and the ministry’s protection. He had a group of sycophants who refused completely to hear the cries of three employees, Vic’s own family, who had served over 63 combined years of service to the ministry and were donors, as well. That’s disgusting on every level.

    This kind of thing never ends well. No accountability may seem to work for a time for these leaders, but someone is paying the price for it. In this case, Vic’s family. As to concerns this site is a cult, I laughed out loud at that. This group of people who have seen and lived the seamy underbelly of fundamentalist and evangelical ministries has been the one place to treat us with respect and dignity – Julie Anne’s site has been a voice for the voiceless. We are grateful. It’s fascinating that while we have the testimony of 11 adults, Vic’s own family, of what he did to all of us, your concern is only with Vic’s reputation, unless YOU decide what he did warrants our outcry. That pretty well sums up the current ministry-fan boy and girl mentality. Perps, not the victims, are the only ones that matter. Keep the votive candles burning, RIP Vic. Keep your memorial spotless. His own little granddaughter only remembers that this is the faceless man who rejected her birthday party invitations she sent.

    Liked by 2 people

  84. DeletedDaughter – You have been so kind in replying to RIP Vic. You are right. You have nothing to prove. Because besides family members, God is the ultimate Witness to all that has transpired.
    Your perseverance can only come from the strength of the Lord and continues to remind me of His love for all of us who are being persecuted by family and “professing Christians”.
    Continuing to pray for you and your loved ones.

    Liked by 1 person

  85. D.J.Kennedy was a great Christian and had a wonderful ministry and his daughter is helping to carry it on…don’t lump him with cults or anything remotely like it

    Like

  86. To Kathy and Deleted Daughter: I never defended him; I didn’t vouch for him. You both did with the inability to provide the public with details. Please go back and read my posts carefully… and this one too if you must.

    You went public! Since you went public first, it is your burden of proof to expose Vic, a man in the public eye. Therefore, by definition, you are slandering and gossiping because you provide no proof, nor did you take legal actions. I’ll repeat it again, you went public first! Why should anyone with more than half a brain believe one side of the story, which is hazy, as fact?

    Why go public with weak testimonies? With this, perhaps it’s hard for someone like me to see another side of him. After all, his character has been consistently upstanding for all the decades I’ve known him. Whatever it is, I’m sure there’s a lot more to the story.

    However, I digress. Apparently, according to some here, nobody outside the family and station can know what happened, yet you still wish to publically defame a man that did great work for the Lord by casting doubts in vast amounts of minds that knew him on different levels. What does that accomplish?

    Reconcile amongst yourselves, not in the public eye! You display yourselves as bitter pills. Unless I missed it, not even one accuser here clearly forgave him. These passages below speak to, in one way or another, what I’ve witnessed here on this board:

    Matthew 12:36
    I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak,

    Psalm 101:5
    Whoever slanders his neighbor secretly I will destroy. Whoever has a haughty look and an arrogant heart I will not endure.

    Ephesians 4:32
    Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

    Okay, I really have to be going now. Say what you will hereafter, my guess is that attacks and self-serving defenses are eminent; however, my work is done here. I pray that all of you continue to deepen your understanding of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. May this stand as a record that exposes the wrongful manner of attacking one man’s character.

    Rest In Peace, Victor Carl Eliason. Thank you, friend and brother in Christ, Amen.

    Like

  87. All I have to know to sympathize with Ingrid and her family is that he threatened to sue his daughter, wouldn’t go through any mediation process or take advice from other God loving folks in resolving the conflict, refused to reconcile with his family on his deathbed and refused to have anything at all to do with his grandchildren who were children and not involved in the family conflict. I don’t need to have details of the conflict paraded in front of me and I would have no right to demand them.

    Blind followers of Ingrid? Oh nonsense! There are none here and she doesn’t want any! Like Ingrid, we are followers of Jesus.

    Liked by 4 people

  88. I guess I’m done here..this hate in public is only hurting everyone..no one has said what really happened..I’m sorry for the family if this is all true..but he can’t defend himself here either ..I always liked VCY..I only just recently heard of all this..I don’t know what to believe ..it is hard to believe he would sue for no reason…you guys are all judging too, and most of us don’t know what really went on..rip vic is right on much of this, and I can’t make a judgement unless the facts are there and all I read is angry hateful things. You criticize anyone who questions you guys too. We all need to pray for each other . We have huge problems in this country and the world that we may nor be able to overcome.. Vic is dead now, let it go..

    Like

  89. I will never “let it go” when innocent victims are harmed in God’s name. This place will continue to remain for those whose voices are silenced. It’s important to pay attention to Ingrid’s words about the public life of a Christian hero and also their private life. Why was he not accountable to anyone? Why did he sue? These are all similar patterns that we see time and again from abusers. He fits the pattern to a tee. I believe Ingrid, period.

    Liked by 4 people

  90. yes, why did he sue? Yes, what did he really do..what did he do in his ministry..from listening on the radio, I can’t see any of that..he had good guests..good subjects..so if he treated his family badly…why? I listened to Ingrid at times..thought she was pretty good, but she was very judgmental too at times…sometimes a few things in other shows irritated me, but no one agrees on everything…I tried to take the whole of it, not some of the little things to nit pick. So is she saying that all the other people involved in VCY are bad too??? They can’t all be…

    Like

  91. Lynn – are you insinuating that the late Vic Eliason was ‘never judgmental’ and yet you claim Ingrid was? (I think you better go to the archives and re-listen to some of the broadcasts)
    Julie Anne stated it very well and I’m sensitive to this issue because I am a victim of abuser(s) who hide behind ‘good works’ and ministering within the church. I have not been allowed to finally speak the truth of abuse that I endured because it ruins ‘reputations’. I’m still enduring this and like Julie Anne I also cannot “let it go” when innocent victims are harmed and in God’s name.
    Forgiveness does not mean we forget the sinful deeds otherwise we would be unwise and fall into the same trap again. “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.” Matthew 10:16

    Being wise and caring for one another also means we warn others of such offenses. Sadly, those who abuse have many friends of like-mind who support them and the vulnerable are left to bleed.

    Liked by 1 person

  92. Dear Lynn,

    Yes, what did he really do..what did he do in his ministry..from listening on the radio, I can’t see any of that…

    And why would you expect to see anything in Vic’s public persona that he wouldn’t want us to see? That’s the nature of a public persona — it’s camouflage.

    he had good guests..good subjects..so if he treated his family badly…why?

    What does it matter why he mistreated his family? Does anything excuse that? And so what if the quality of his radio shows was good? That has nothing to so with the fact that the threatened to sue his own daughters.

    Liked by 3 people

  93. Dear RIP (in case you’re still lurking),

    You went public! Since you went public first, it is your burden of proof to expose Vic, a man in the public eye. Therefore, by definition, you are slandering and gossiping because you provide no proof, nor did you take legal actions.

    a) Please check the definition of “slander”.

    b) What exactly would you accept as proof of the Schlueters’ claims about Eliason? We have a letter that proves he threatened to sue them. That already speaks against him.

    Liked by 3 people

  94. You know what really matters in any family tragedy? It’s not the reputation of this big name or that. I saw Vic enter eternity hours after his final lies to others about my sister and my visit to his beside days earlier. There was someone there who witnessed every comment, every blog post, every mailed letter, every phone call, every text. He’s called the Faithful Witness in Scripture—Jesus. He has seen every tear, has been there in the darkness of rejection and despair, confusion and shattered faith at times. Vic has already been before the Court of No Appeal. No enablers, no co-dependents, no more lies for cover. We’ll all face Jesus when we leave this life. If this Eliason tragedy points to anything, as all family tragedies do, it’s the urgency of taking a hard look to see if our faith goes beyond image, “right” positions on things, or bright banners against this or that flying over our heads. If you can’t love your own children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren, your faith is a total fraud, I don’t care how many great works you do before the public. I’m taking my own advice. Lots of self-assessment these days. Matt. 7:22-23

    Liked by 4 people

  95. I never said he wasn’t judgmental at times,but so was she..we all are at times..you are trying to make more of it than I meant…so what is so wrong with suing someone if it is warranted? Only he can answer why he did that as no one has told the details in this blog…You are asking us to demonize him, but we don’t know the details is all I’m saying….I’m sorry for all of you and him and his wife and the rest of the family.. It just seems you guys are acting the same way that you accused him of….unforgiveness..

    Like

  96. Dear deleted daughter,

    I can relate to your last comment. I, too, have family who are well respected, well heeled and well known minor Christian celebs who are only interested in public image. I have been chilled at what they are willing to say or do and who they are willing to harm in order to prop up that image. In fact, it is that public image that keeps them from fearing the Faithful Witness which is all about truth— no matter how negative or costly.

    Liked by 2 people

  97. “Once again, we have someone defending a man based on outward appearances, but not having been behind closed doors where family deals with the reality they face. Please give it up, RIP Vic.”

    Not only that but also behind the pulpit or stage or whatever else public persona they carefully craft. Cult of personality is alive and well in both the secular and evangelical worlds. It amazes me how easily duped I was to follow humans instead of Christ based upon public persona. I knew better.

    How I came across Ingrid was way back in about 2005 when she was running Slice of Laodicea. It was about the only place discussing what I had witnessed in the church and around the celebrity Christian circles in those days. That site allowed for interaction or I would never have bothered.

    That is key. Interaction. Questioning, Accountability for those who make their living off Jesus.

    Liked by 4 people

  98. Moderator note: Spiritual Sounding Board first and foremost is to be a safe place for survivors. While I do allow differing opinions here for discussion, in this case, there is no opportunity for reconciliation. The naysayers who only “knew” Vic Eliason through his ministry work will never know him personally. The family members who have been harmed will have to go to bed each night knowing there was unfinished business and try to move on from the pain.

    If you are here to defend Vic Eliason, you may read, but all comments that defend him will deleted. From here on out, for the sake of his family and all survivors they represent, we will only be supporting Ingrid and her family or discussing spiritual abuse and its effects.

    Thank you!

    Liked by 3 people

  99. Has anyone else noticed among the recent defenders of Vic that, except for Lynn who did say “I’m sorry Vic has died, I’m sorry for his family if they are estranged” yet then goes on to call his daughter “judgmental,” no one has offered any condolences to Ingrid for her loss? It’s tragic that Vic died while not reconciled with his family.

    Liked by 4 people

  100. The biggest. Thing about Vic Elliason filing a lawsuit is he LOST a major lawsuit and yet claimed not to” own” vcy.so who paid for that fiasco? And another question that falls on deaf ears,for a big time Christian saint-aircraft? A house in Brookfield? Always Begging for donations, yet what actual ministries were funded in milwaukee? The vcy network was the sole beneficiary? I think not. An empire was created that enjoys minimal oversight and Mr Eliasons actions. Strike me as those with a guilty conscience.

    Like

  101. I came to VCY through Ingrid’s blog, “Slice Of Laodicea”. To all the family and friends who are in pain. Just remember that the blood of Jesus forgives sin. If Vic has committed sin against you, then remember that this is why Jesus died. From your testimony he had bullish behavior. This is regrettable. But if Jesus truly was His Savior then Vic will never be bullish again. For he has been saved from the presence of sin. We will struggle down here as believers. I know I do. But someday it won’t be this way. For we will be like all the Saints who no longer struggle or mess up. We will no longer sin again. Praise His Name. What this reminds me of is that though we fight down here,struggle down here, and have conflicts of all kinds down here. When we get to Heaven we will put our arms around each other and laugh. Our relationships will finally be restored. I say this because down here Vic would not reconcile. This is no longer the problem since he has been freed from the presence of sin. Go in peace beloved Saints of God.

    Like

  102. I know that I’m coming to this party really late, but how come no one mentions the fact that Ingrid is divorced? She shouldn’t have been on the radio doing “ministry” work because of this one fact. Now her oldest son has converted to ‘catholicism’? Weird!!!

    Like

  103. Agreeing with Julie Anne.
    The Bible has The Answer — Why should it matter that Ingrid was divorced? And she had been this way for quite some time. Why did VCY keep her there except maybe because she was an asset; she was well respected by many ‘discerning listeners’.
    As for Ingrid’s son converting to Catholicism?? That is a very private matter and as an adult he is capable of making decisions. There’s nothing weird in that. If that is your outlook in judging someone than my standing before the Lord is nil because personally – the man I married has renounced any spiritual commitment and no longer wants to be my husband and yet won’t divorce me for financial reasons (it’s all about money; nice guy) … and my home educated children have since ‘gone their own way’. The Christian faith is not to be discussed around them.
    So, am I responsible for this? I did everything within the strength that God gave me to initiate that the Word be instilled from cradle til they left the house. SIN festering and the church refused to come to my aid. Hmmm, the church also claimed “the Bible has the answer”…. I know that but many wolves love to destroy.
    I’m a little sensitive on this issue and I continue to contend earnestly for the true Gospel (Jude 3).

    Liked by 2 people

  104. Dear Bible Has an Answer – you left a message on my blog as well and your IP kinda gave away who you are. 🙂 What my adult children do is their business. I will say that the carnage they witnessed from fundamentalists like you growing up had no small part in my nearly 30-year-old son’s decision to leave it behind, I am certain. We love our kids unconditionally at our house, whether we have disagreements on things or not. That’s something I’m sorry you don’t understand, but let me encourage to look into it. It does wonders in our families and in our lives. I also would like to point out that I use my real name here. That’s because I am not ashamed of who I am or my life story. God uses broken people when we give him the pieces. The nasty opinions of others can never change what God is doing in our lives when we keep our eyes on him! Blessings.

    Liked by 3 people

  105. To Bible Has an Answer,

    For many who have attended abusive c’hurch systems, myself included, I want you to know that while I was personally struggling with my faith in Jesus Christ, the website “A Slice of Laodicea” was one of the ways in which our LORD was showing me the truth of His Word. My former c’hurch was a conservative Baptist religion with an Assembly of God pastor, where ‘the lord’ was speaking to these people directly through audible communication, dreams, visions, trips to the third heaven, angelic visits, and ‘words’ from spirits. This ‘method’ was used and abused to manipulate, control and dominate those of us who were in the lower laity caste system as were to listen in awe and worship of their religious experiences and follow them. False teachers and preachers were endorsed with their mysticism, prophetic predictions, seven mountains mandate, lying signs and wonders, and false revival conferences and meetings and the rest of us ‘spiritual nothings’ were supposed to follow every wind of doctrine that our ‘spiritual mothers and fathers’ in that strange church building promoted. Listening and sitting under this spiritual “GARBAGE” about drove me crazy in trying to measure up to the AOG pastor man’s standards along with the leadership that loved to lord it over the rest of us. As a reminder to myself, this pastor MAN was caught in sexual sins of his own making, and finally left his cult on his own, meanwhile the ‘leadership’ still wanted him to remain as the c’hurches’ pastor. (What does this say about the leadership? Hmmm)

    To you Bible Has an Answer, I was involved in a cult and I can only praise our LORD for leading me to Ingrid’s website during my time of suffering and pain, combined with so much confusion in my faith. Thank-you Jesus, for giving Ingrid the strength, wisdom and courage in showing this formerly confused believer and follower of Christ, the truth of God’s Word. May our LORD be with you, Ingrid and family, until the day we see Him face to face. Amen.

    Liked by 3 people

  106. how come no one mentions the fact that Ingrid is divorced? She shouldn’t have been on the radio doing “ministry” work because of this one fact.

    The woman at the well was divorced, too. That didn’t stop Jesus from speaking with her. It didn’t stop her from witnessing to the people of her town. It didn’t stop those people from coming out to see Jesus. And “many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.”

    Now her oldest son has converted to ‘catholicism’?

    And? One of my favorite bloggers, Elizabeth Esther, left her fundamentalist cult upbringing and became a Catholic. I’d bet the farm she’s touching more lives than “The Bible has The Answer” through her books, blog posts, and speaking engagements.

    Your reasoning is an epic fail.

    Liked by 3 people

  107. Just a brief thank you to those who have written kind comments above. I also want to add that anyone who is being destroyed by another in a “marriage” and children emotionally shredded, without the slightest sign of repentance in the perpetrator, has an obligation to protect herself as a mother and as a human being of value in God’s sight. The attitude displayed by The Bible Has an Answer is one the reasons that many women in these circumstances do not get help in the church. These “Christians” are deluded into thinking that there is a marriage there to save, when the perpetrator violates every one of his vows over and over again, not the least of which is to “love, honor and cherish” his wife. I am grateful that much light has been brought to this issue and awareness of all kinds of abuse in the church in recent years. How wonderful that we have a forgiving Savior who carried all of our sins on the Cross and in whose presence all false pride, self-righteousness gets blown away like smoke. I’m praying for the individual who wrote the comment above that God will use whatever it takes in their life to remove this spirit of arrogance. There’s hope for anyone who bows the knee before the Cross.

    Liked by 1 person

  108. Ingrid, my view is that separation is what should be done in these cases. The Bible seems to say that divorce is only permissible by God when there is adultery or abandonment. Let’s say a woman has a rotten husband who is controlling,mean etc. She should separate. More than likely a man like this over time will find another woman. The the wife is free to file for divorce. Now it is possible the husband will come to his senses and get help, and then become the husband he should have been in the first place.

    Like

  109. VPM: “More than likely a man like this over time will find another woman. The the wife is free to file for divorce. Now it is possible the husband will come to his senses and get help, and then become the husband he should have been in the first place.”

    So, what you are saying is that any woman who has separated from her husband due to his manipulation, abuse and control should now put herself in a position to be re-manipulated, re-abused and re-controlled, waiting for when HE decides whether he wants to return to the relationship or walk away.

    I know of two examples that demonstrate the foolishness of this. One example, husband was addicted to porn and wife sought divorce. The church forbade the divorce and sent her back with instructions to submit. He was told to counsel for his porn. As long as she was trapped, he was “recovering nicely” in the church, but when she gave up and filed for divorce, he walked away. The church was just an extension of his control. The other example was where the husband had mental issues. He would shack up with a girl (not his wife) when he was feeling amazing, but when he wasn’t feeling so hot, his girlfriend would leave, he would find God and repent and try to be the loving father. This behavior repeated year after year, but this wife was told by her good Christian friends that God could use her to bring grace to her husband. After about 15 years of this, she finally divorced him.

    The church harms the cause of Christ when it tries to polish crap. It calls evil good and good evil. It punishes the victim and shows grace to the abuser. You can pray and agonize all you want about broken relationships, but they are broken.

    I was in a church with an abusive elder. I left and had an exit interview of sorts with another elder. I told him plainly that the other elder was abusive. His response: “We know. We’re dealing with it.” NO. That’s the problem. They WEREN’T dealing with it. They were showing him love, mercy and grace, and they were re-abusing his victims. He was never publicly called out for his abuse. He was never told to repent for his abuse to his victims, and instead of dealing with it, he runs the show because he refuses to compromise. Now the church has yearly vow renewal services so that they can abuse those who try to leave for forsaking their vows.

    Like

  110. I am not saying that a woman should be put in any position,except that she protects herself with integrity. She and her husband made vows to each other. Is she not supposed to take those seriously? When we get married we vow, “for better or for worse”. Do we really mean that when we say it? What I am advocating in the scenario of a man mentally or physically abusing a woman is for the woman to separate. This is playing hard ball because the man can no longer abuse her. But, what about the marital vows? Jesus spoke about adultery and Paul spoke about abandonment. If the erring husband finds another woman, which is very likely if he is that kind of man has then committed adultery and abandoned his wife. She is then free with God’s consent to divorce and remarry. Now, you only speak of a man who does not change. What about the man who loses his wife and then actually changes? Would it be better for both of them to remain married and stick to the vows they made? See, I think the marital contract is seen a lot today as though it can be broken for just about any reason. And what is the result? I’ve seen it many times where the couple who divorces for non biblical reasons finds someone else just like the first spouse or perhaps they are even worse. It’s a whole lot better to learn to get along with the first spouse if at all possible. The examples you gave are heart rendering. I feel deeply for those hurt. I would never ask a woman or man to go back to a spouse who is not truly repentant.

    Like

  111. Sorry to hear about the break-up of the Vic Eliason family. It seems the problems stemmed from Vic not being accountable to anyone and therefore bereft of wise counsel. Other public ministries in the news lately seem to have suffered the same fate. We all must strive to be courageous keepers of our brothers by speaking up when we see them going astray.

    My hope now is that the family’s mother, grandmother, and mother-in-law be loved on and counseled to stand in the gap and apologize for her silence. She must be so hurting as well as lonely. Hurt and anger must not prevail. Let the Balm of Gilead have His way, the force of love will conquer all evil.

    Like

Thanks for participating in the SSB community. Please be sure to leave a name/pseudonym (not "Anonymous"). Thx :)

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s