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Manly man and open-air evangelist Tony Miano, shares words of wisdom to women on blogging, speaking, preaching, and teaching.
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Christian Women Bloggers: Maintaining God-Intended Femininity http://t.co/k9L2bjlCn1 Addressing the question of women and #evangelism online
— Tony Miano (@TonyMiano) November 7, 2013
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Open-air street evangelist, Tony Miano, has been the recipient of correspondence from Christian women after his book, Should She Preach, was published. In a recent blog post, he stated that some women asked in a “sincere and thoughtful way,” while others asked with “venom in their words, ready for a fight.”
He then conceded that sometimes Christians can behave as badly as unbelievers in their online communications and readily admits that he has been guilty as charged, too.
Umm, yea:
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He seems to be very concerned about women and how they conduct themselves verbally and otherwise. (I’ve split up the excerpt for easier reading.)
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As a result of my book, I’ve found myself on the receiving end of some very nasty comments by Christian women on blogs, Facebook, Twitter, and via email. In each instance, the professing Christian woman acts and talks as if she were asking me to “step outside.”
In each instance, the woman acted and talked like an angry man–asserting authority she does not have, boisterously making demands and proclamations and, with no sense of biblical propriety and in mixed online company, throwing her weight around as a teacher–weight the Lord has not given her.
And just so there is not mistake; just so there is no ambiguity seen in my position; I believe such behavior among Christian women is masculine, unbiblical, sinful, and embarrassing. Such behavior is untoward, unattractive, unflattering, and ungodly.
Such behavior violates God’s created order and design for women, violates a woman’s role in the Body of Christ, and flies in the face of the gentle and quiet spirit God has intended for all women–certainly His redeemed, born-again, adopted daughters.
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Miano then shared that he had received an e-mail from a college student who “ascribes to what the Bible teaches regarding the limitations placed upon women in the areas of preaching/teaching and exercising authority over men.” The gist of the e-mail is the young lady wanted to have a clearer understanding of what was biblically acceptable for her to say on her blog with regard to conversations with men who had commented.
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A few times, men have commented on the journals (usually atheists) and I have gotten into long debates with them on the subjects. I don’t seek out these conversations, they simply post on the journal and I reply.
My question is, do these journal postings and/or subsequent one-on-one conversations qualify as teaching/preaching? If so, should I delete my previous journals, or should I simply stop making them? Finally, if this is preaching/teaching, do you know of any other ways I can evangelize online while staying in the will of God?
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Here is part of Miano’s reply:
Thank you for contacting me. I hope your studies are going well.
You ask a very good question. And I’m very glad to hear you hold to a biblical understanding of a woman’s role in the Body of Christ regarding teaching and the exercise of authority over men.
I do not believe that writing a public journal, in which you express your Christian beliefs and your theological thoughts about the same rises to the level of teaching and/or exercising authority over men.
Now, with that said, writing about the truths of Scripture certainly is teaching Scripture. There’s no way around that. When we communicate biblical truth, we are teaching biblical truth. However, the onus for the teaching, in the case of written material, is upon the recipient and not the writer. What I mean by that is it is the responsibility of men to avoid sitting under your teaching. It is the responsibility of Christian men not to put themselves under the authority of your teaching.
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Hey now – – – wait just one minute. Do you remember this: Question for Tony Miano: Did Joni Preach? It sure looks like he didn’t heed his own words when he heard Joni Eareckson Tada “teach” scripture at the Strange Fire conference. He even wrote a whole post trying to convince everyone she wasn’t preaching/teaching:
Did I listen to Joni speak? Yes, I drank in every word as if they were sips from a cool glass of water. I am blessed every time I listen to Joni speak. She is a wonderful example of biblical womanhood and a true encouragement. I listened to Joni speak during the Strange Fire conference without so much as a twinge of discomfort, apprehension, compromise, or hypocrisy. (Source)
Whatever, Tony, we see how it works. If whatever she is teaching lines up with your beliefs, then you’ll listen to a woman teaching, but if it’s someone like Joyce Meyer, then look at the insulting words he uses:
“She carries herself like a man, sounds like a man, and preaches like a man.”
Going back to Miano’s correspondence with the young lady:
While it is not unbiblical for you to engage men in evangelistic conversations, you will have to decide if, in doing so, you are sacrificing any of your femininity in the process. In other words, you will have to determine if you are sounding like a man in your correspondence. One of the three reasons women should not open-air preach, teach men, or exercise authority over men, which I explain in my book, is that a woman cannot help but to sound and act like a man in the process, thus sacrificing some of her beautiful, God-given femininity.
This is the best part. Miano then gives words of advice to Christian women bloggers:
It might be wise for Christian women bloggers to give some written indication on their blog that their primary audience, if their blog is directed toward the Christian community, is Christian women. This might help fend off unwanted, unbelieving men from posting comments, and it might help in rightly discouraging Christian men from placing themselves under the teaching of a Christian woman.
Uh-oh, I have not done this. I hope I have not caused any of my men readers to stumble.
Just so there is no confusion or misinterpretation of my words, I will close with this. I am not suggesting all Christian women should abandon their blogs. I am not suggesting all Christian women should flee from social media. Christian women, like Christian men, have much to say. And I’m all for Christian women saying it–so long as they communicate in a biblical manner. So, to my blogging sisters in Christ, keep blogging. Keep blogging, so long as you do so while maintaining God’s intended order, your role in the Bride of Christ, and your God-designed, God-intended, beautiful femininity. (Source)
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Spiritual Sounding Board 
Why are we supposed to place ourselves under anyone’s teaching except that of jesus through the Holy Spirit? And why should we not listen to anybody, testing everything? Josiah would have done well to pay attention to God speaking through Necho, and Balaam did well to listen to the teaching of his donkey -even though she was female.
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I’m confused about the “communicate in a biblical manner” part – women (and men) didn’t communicate by blogging back when the Bible was written…
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HA! Good point, Phoenixtatgirl!
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As I said on FB, he is ignorant … therefore, ignore him.
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How about pity him!? What is he, and his ilk, so afraid of that they have to tie themselves in knots to defend a position that Christ himself did not take?
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Sure is great, the freedom in Jesus that we have from such bizarre preoccupations.
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Pretty sure that I just threw up in my mouth a little bit…
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Does he not realize that the woman at the well and Mary, who found the tomb empty and ran and TOLD MEN AT THE COMMAND OF JESUS were some of the first evangelists? I would love to know what Miano thinks of them.
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Sounds like a misogynist to me- professing to be a Christian. I don’t know- listen to the words coming out of his heart. Something isn’t right at all. That isn’t the New Testament heart-
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What Miano’s really trying to say here is that women shouldn’t ever think for themselves. He gives an example of it when he offers his ‘wise words’ to the young university student. I can almost picture him preening when he delivers his condescending response.
Give me a break.
Keep thinking, writing, and speaking Julie Anne – that’s what our brains are for!
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Welcome, Allie! You are right. Something is amiss. He is not her pastor. The least he could say is to run his words by her pastor to get his guidance as well. But no……… He acts like he’s her authority telling her what to do or what not to do (and essentially all of us because he made it public for a purpose). That’s a mighty tall perch he’s put himself on.
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What a wacko. Wish there was a place where others could debate these misogynists publicly. Can you imagine watching & listening to Lydia seller of purple take him down. A girl can dream ( ;
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One of the many things that irks me about Miano’s philosophy is his insistence that teaching men somehow “compromises a woman’s femininity”. As though he has the right to judge whether any woman is “less of a woman”.
This gets under my skin, in part, because he probably thinks the corollary is true: That some behaviours are (and some are not) masculine or “manly”. And I hate being told that I’m less of a man just because I’m different. Or because I feel blessed to learn from Julie Anne, or from any woman, about the Bible and our freedom in Christ.
I am a man. Nothing I do can make me less of one. Nothing JA does can make her any less of a woman. Anyone who says otherwise is just another Pharisee, as far as I’m concerned.
“Unattractive”? Maybe to you, Miano. To me, a strong, intelligent, confident woman is very attractive. If you only find her intimidating or threatening, Miano, that’s your affair. You’ve no right making it her problem.
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Reblogged this on Paul's Passing Thoughts.
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well said! a very manly man once told me that weak men are the only ones that are threatened by a woman. I think he has some major insecurity issues, maybe identity issues as well- who knows? why would he be so obsessed with this otherwise? and as you said, he isn’t the one who sets the standards of who is feminine and who is not. I just think he is an insecure, weak man.
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This man is an embarrassment to reason everywhere. It is not difficult to find and dismantle his inconsistent assumptions, which are hardly Christian. His philosophy is simply a remodeling of the inherently violent/evil Platonist caste system, qua Gnosticism, qua Kantian philosophy, qua Marxist collectivist altruism. It is the same root of violent tyranny seen in every river of blood that has ever flowed through human despotic history. His is the philosophy of the Inquisition, the tyranny of Geneva, slavery, and every bloody conflict in the 20th century. His philosophy is nothing more than this: You do not own your life. The quickest way to live is to die. You are nothing more than the “role” that God told him you must sacrifice yourself to.
Why? Because you do not functionally exist except as a part of an “absolute” law (in this case your “role” as a woman). And notice that this removes human beings from Christ and puts them squarely back under the law as the source of their salvation. Thus, in his philosophy human beings must constantly re-sacrifice Christ…for they are perpetually under the law. This philosophy then is anti-Christ. It removes Christ from people and makes them a function of the law.
God is not amused with this kind of wicked philosophy. His hypocrisy is written in the sky in neon.
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Oof. His arrogance is breathtaking. It seems to be his position that men ought NEVER to listen to women on ANY topic because it robs women of their femininity?!! What does he make of 1Cor 7:16? “For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?” Miano prefers to send men to Hell than to permit their wives to teach them??? To quote Bugs Bunny, he is an ULTRA MAROON! Btw, my husband would still not know The Lord if he hadn’t listened to me 25+ years ago ! I cannot even fathom how the many lives he has touched would look today….
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It seems to me that people who vomit these misogynistic views are walking in the shoes of the deep-south racists of the pre-civil rights era. It’s just that their insecurities and hatreds are focused on women instead of people with dark skin color. I am surprised they don’t just come out and say that women are the new (insert plural form of prohibited word beginning with “N”).
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Welcome, doremifasogirl (just as I typed your name I got it!! LOL – – I’m aka “choir mom”)
I’m not sure your husband is legitimately saved if you were the one teaching him. We’re going to need to run that by Tony.
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And since when does Tony Miano get to define what femininity looks like?
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I’m wondering what he thinks about tall women. Are tall women manly?
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I think Miano suffers from “little man syndrome”. I know his heart is too small, his IQ is too small, etc., but whether it is his stature or his “package” that is too small, one of them must be, because he feels compelled to put women down in order to be a “bigger” man.
I would never have considered marrying a woman who could not hold her own in any theological, moral, political, etc. discussion with me. My children would need someone like that to be able to reach to the extent of their abilities. And she and I have two successful adult children with advanced degrees (both were merit scholars) and who are admired by all who know them, one of each gender. And both could teach Miano some realities about life and human interaction.
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Tony M: “I say women should shut up where I can hear them. It is in the Bible.”
Woman: “I disagree, it is not in the Bible.”
Tony M: “You sinner! How dare you speak to me about what is in the Bible!”
Tony’s own belief does not allow him to learn from those who can correct his belief…
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That poor man. He is clearly confused.
I mean he states talking like an angry man – making demands and proclamations, and throwing his weight around is somehow ‘manly’ or manhood traits, etc. Think about it! He throws out all these ugly behaviors – that should be spoken against from ANYONE – and then states its ‘acting like a man’.
Maybe an insecure, immature man – or woman for that matter – but he certainly can’t find bible verses to back up that behavior as mature Christ Like behavior.
He is certainly confused, and needs to go back to the drawing board. Sadly, he clearly doesn’t grasp ‘manhood’ very well himself.
I bet he doesn’t even understand he cut himself down. He attached all these behaviors to his ‘manhood’ What a nut!
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It seems that to Tony, “femininity” means he sends his wife out to work and make a living for the family while he plays street preacher and tries to build his personal brand. It really is interesting how hypocritical they are and are unable to see it.
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Yaaaay – thank you to the people on here who speak the truth. People (women AND men) like (and respond in kind to) OTHER people who are intelligent, well-spoken, thoughtful, caring and compassionate. End of story. It’s unfortunate that Miano uses the Bible as a weapon to keep women in their place – in his mind, shuffling between the kitchen and the bedroom. How sick is that?
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Yes, you are right, Lydia. Mrs. Miano does indeed work outside the home. Hey, did you hear he’s needing more donations to go on another trip? I think it’s Australia this time. Maybe his wife can put in some OT while he answers emails from college women.
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Haha! Yes, that’s it– choir mom, jazz mom, etc. We birthed a band instead of a basketball team!
Should I ask my husband if his salvation is compromised because I had a part in the evangelization process? Oh, nope. That wouldn’t be feminine either!
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It’s sad when society has a better grip on the treatment of women than the church does. When a book is written to stop women from teaching scripture, that is men’s way of showing their fear. And it has been used that women are easily deceived? It’s a lot of men and women who buy into this that are deceived.
In the Bible there are just too many passages of women in ministry to be ignored, yet Tony and those with that mindset ignore it. It’s almost 2014 and we are still having this conversation. Hearing dribble like the above. And Tony wonders why we are angry. It’s not us who are sinning.
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Speaking of caste systems (thank you Argo), these spewers of misogynistic effluent are attempting to make women the dalits, the untouchables, the lowest of the low, in the Biblically prescribed caste system of the Kingdom of God. You know, that Kingdom where “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female.” (Galatians 3:28a, ESV)
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Ok, we really need to think things through here. Tony is father of 3 adult daughters and subscribes to “courtship.” I wonder if he would appreciate some man usurping his spiritual head of the home role and teaching his daughters spiritual matters?
Furthermore, did Miano get permission from her father to talk to him?
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Oh this guy is a peach. All you women, mind your manners. LOLOLOL
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Ugh. This guy.
So, apparently it’s not okay for a woman to sound like an angry man, but it’s okay for a man to sound like an angry man. Who wants to listen to an angry man preacher anyways? That was one thing that turned me off about the last church we were a part of. The preacher was always yelling at us.
I did find this a bit amusing, though…
“It might be wise for Christian women bloggers to give some written indication on their blog that their primary audience, if their blog is directed toward the Christian community, is Christian women. This might help fend off unwanted, unbelieving men from posting comments, and it might help in rightly discouraging Christian men from placing themselves under the teaching of a Christian woman.”
I guess that we women need to make sure we’re very clear about who our intended audience is because men just don’t get it. Really, he’s making men sound like idiots.
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I always understood that a good rule for interpretation of Scripture was to measure it in the light of other Scripture. So any interpretation of New Testament passages which appears to disallow women teaching men (ridiculous notion!) would, surely, need comparison with this:
Gen 21: But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking, and she said to Abraham, “Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac.”
The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you…
(to teach: to impart knowledge to or instruct (someone) as to how to do something.
“she taught him to read”
synonyms: educate, instruct, school, tutor, give lessons to, coach, train, upskill, ground, enlighten, illuminate ….)
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He’s OK with emailing a young lady without his wife present? Nowhere do I see his wife was with him when he answered her. Isn’t this how certain things can start? With an email…
(Anyone can play rule games à la Miano, right? 😉 )
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JA,
“I’m wondering what he thinks about tall women. Are tall women manly?”
Whatever. 🙂 As my grandmother used to tell me when I towered prematurely over my peers, “All models are tall.”
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No, no, no, Kathi – – you have it wrong. It’s not angry – – it’s authoritative preaching. It’s manly.
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Yes, that’s what our preacher told us. He was ordained by God to preach the word. So if we didn’t like what he had to say, too bad.
We left shortly after he started preaching.
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That proves you are an unbeliever, Kathi. If you cannot receive the truth of God as spoken from an anointed man of God, then you must not be elect. Repent!
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Whoa – sarcasm is alive and well this morning – lol. I should have put trigger warnings on my own sarcasm.
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Yes, I am but a lowly sinner. And a woman. My destiny is doomed.
BTW – One of the Christianese phrases that has always bugged me is that “we are not worthy of God’s grace.” I say we are. If “God so loved the world…” then I think we are very worthy of his grace and love.
Does that count as me preaching? If so, I preach to all men and women!
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TM must not have listened to all Joni’s “sermons” where it appeared to me that she struggled with overpowering her husband. And I do believe he sits in the audience and listens to her speak as Joyce Meyers husband does. And I believe her position in her ministry is higher than his. I am not sure why he doesn’t call her out on this.
I am just challenging him as I love Joni and have always been inspired by her testimony
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I can see why you are bugged by that. I get so tired of certain groups trying to make us constantly feel like lowly worms. We WERE like lowly worms, but not any more when we are IN CHRIST. Good grief, they minimize Christ’s death when they continually do this.
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Preach it Kathi!
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Little men? Tall women?
Perhaps this slight paraphrase of Cat Stevens’ Father and Son describes the “little man” attitude:
It’s not time to make a change,
Just sit down, take it slowly.
You’re still tall, that’s your fault,
There’s so much you have to go through.
Find a man, settle down,
If you want you can marry.
Look at me, I am small, but I’m manly
And this response from Mr Shunderson in People Will Talk:
Professor Elwell, you’re a little man. It’s not that you’re short. You’re…little, in the mind and in the heart. Tonight, you tried to make a man little whose boots you couldn’t touch if you stood on tiptoe on top of the highest mountain in the world. And as it turned out…you’re even littler than you were before.
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Love it, Fred!
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Joni spoke at 2013 NRB (National Religious Broadcasters) meeting- sure there were men there
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Hey, basketball only lasts a season. They can be doing band music for a long while. How fun!
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You’re right JA -If the woman comes across with a submissive demeanor, she apparently is not preaching. It is not the content but the delivery.
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lydiasellerofpurple wrote~
“It seems that to Tony, “femininity” means he sends his wife out to work and make a living for the family while he plays street preacher and tries to build his personal brand. It really is interesting how hypocritical they are and are unable to see it.’
Thanks for bringing that up. I wanted to, and I hope this is not considered off topic and if so I apologize in advance. She works FT from what I have read. He also has three adult daughters living at home. The eldest also works as a teacher, but I do not know if it is FT. I do not know about the other two daughters and how they occupy their days. So– there’s lots of ‘feminine’ (lol) income coming in to support Miano.
I would really like to know if he works AT ALL in some sort of part time paid position. He would have at least a small bit of credibility if he took care of his family like a good patriarch is supposed to do (sarcasm). The way I see it now, he is totally relying on women for his food. He can depend on women for his very livelihood–yet places limits on their speech. Question for machoman Miano–can a woman do an unfeminine job like, say, truck driver or heavy machine operator if it means financial support for him so he can preach?
I really do hope he has some sort of job and is not simply begging on the internet for Walmart gift cards because with the holidays coming….ministries like his take a hit.
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“Good grief, they minimize Christ’s death when they continually do this.”
Agreed. Why even talk about it when preachers like Miano and CON only focus on law and works. They make loving God and working on his behalf a miserable experience. It’s all focused on rules and regulations, not faith, hope and love.
I love Christmas time for the beautiful mystery of Christ coming to earth for the sake of humanity.
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That’s why I’m manly: because I talk with guys and challenge them directly. Oopsy
Marie on the FB page said this: Ironically, JA didn’t have need of a public voice till the man, and the men around him, didn’t make the”manly” choice to do the right thing. No wonder we sense their insecurity.
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There she goes – – Diane preachin’ to the choir (did I say preach? – oopsy!).
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‘I really do hope he has some sort of job and is not simply begging on the internet for Walmart gift cards because with the holidays coming….ministries like his take a hit.’
Oops. Guess not. From his blog–
‘With the Holidays Approaching
As the holidays approach and many Christians are focused on buying gifts for friends and loved ones, family meals, and traveling to see relatives, small ministries like ours often feel the pinch. Added to our own situation, the company for which Mahria works (she serves as an accounting clerk at a local, private swim club) closes for the last two weeks of the year. Mahria’s income provides about 1/6 of our monthly financial needs. Giving has already slowed as we begin the last two months of the year. It looks like things could be pretty tight, financially.
Without diverting attention from your church or those whom you plan to bless during the Christmas season, we humbly ask that you would consider supporting us, too.
On way you can support us is through the donation of Walmart gift cards. Simply go to your local Walmart, purchase a gift card of any amount, and mail it to:
Revival-USA
P.O. Box 220087
Newhall, CA 91322
Your support, however you choose to give, is greatly appreciated and an answer to prayer. Thank you.” (Crossencounters newsletter October 30, 2013 / Volume 2, Issue 35)
If he feels the pinch and things are priiiiiiiity tight, he needs to do what the rest of us do and get a second job…(or a third)get a job and quit relying on opm and his family to support his trips around the world. Whatever happened to the 40 grand suv he wanted to purchase (from donations lolol) for his Christ Across the South (because we all know the south is so un-evangelized it needs Miano) tour that was supposed to take place in the spring of 2014? I haven’t heard a word about the 2014 suv he wanted to purchase for the gospel. Tickets to Australia and Scotland are expensive. Does he really think he is so special that he needs to go there to preach the gospel? And….do it on other people’s dime?
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@ Carmen~
“It’s unfortunate that Miano uses the Bible as a weapon to keep women in their place – in his mind, shuffling between the kitchen and the bedroom. How sick is that?”
Don’t forget the workforce. Shuffling between the kitchen. bedroom and outside jobs to support his trip taking.
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WOW – I thought you had to be making this up. .. can you say NARCISSIST?? Not to mention a lack of humility. . oh, wait – the two go hand-in-hand. ..
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I think I am going to send him a nice tip because obviously this passage must be missing from his bible.
Not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you, so that you would follow our example. 10For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. 11For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies.…
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My tip (wink wink) is the passage from 2 Thessalonians 3:10
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Gail – – You are going to have to get one of the guys here to tell him that. He’s not going to listen to you.
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I will have my husband sign the card! Thanks for the address.
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Gail aka scared, That was one of my Dads lessons growing up. Adults work if they are able, if they want to eat.
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Diane’s comment about Miano asking the peasants to donate to his “cause” reminded me of this:
(Please, pardon the one “off color” word in there. It’s hard to find a good parody that is also clean.)
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Honestly, Miano’s comments remind me more of the rhetoric of the Manosphere than the words and example set by Jesus himself.
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Uh oh.
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Control. It’s the teaching of the right to control someone else. The love of control. And the teaching for tithes, books for revenue, goes along with it. Tyranny, caste/status, collective mindset can be achieved in groups big & small by religious or spiritual teaching gone awry. Many nice folks are being deceived into these types of Puritan thinking.
This teaching goes against the right to individual life, liberty & pursuit of happiness (without hurting another). This is the freedom Christ wants ALL to experience here on earth, as it is in heaven.
How to identify them? Suppression of rights & request for donations will be on their lips.
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Wow, Diane! What a find! What does his “ministry” need Walmart gift cards for? I wonder if he considers his home and the needs of his home as part of the ministry.
I didn’t see anywhere on his website that says his ministry is a 501(c)3 organization. So, if he is using Walmart gift cards for his household purposes, I guess he’s not technically violating any laws. Here’s a good lesson for anyone who gives to Miano’s “ministry.” If he doesn’t offer full disclosure of how your gifts are being used, it’s wise not to give.
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From Miano’s FB (that he claims really doesn’t post on anymore but his sycophants supposedly do all/most of the posting so it does not become an idol for Miano):
“Tony Miano
4 hours ago.
How do you like the idea of Tony Miano reading sermons from great preachers of old and then those readings be available for download?” (Tony Miano FB)
Hope they are free if he does that. Well….here’s one he could read!
The Didache-
CHAPTER 11 : reception of teachers, apostles, prophets true & false
“11:4 Let every apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord.
11:5 But he must not remain longer than one day, or if need be, a second as well. But if he stays three days, he is a false prophet.
11:6 And when the apostle leaves let him accept nothing but bread to sustain him to his next shelter. But if he ask for money, he is a false prophet.”
and
“11:12 But if somebody in the Spirit says to you : “Give me money.” or something similar, do not listen to him. But nobody should judge him if he tells you to give to the needy.”
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/didache.html
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Speaking of freedom… Miano doesn’t think we are free to choose God. Take a look at this video about freedom & see what you think.
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Oops. Just meant paste the link, not the actual video. Oh dear.
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The video is about scopolamine, a scary drug I had never heard of, that makes people act like zombies. They are easily controlled by someone else, but seem normal & not impaired at all.
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Wow, Diane!! Wonder why we don’t hear *that* preached from more pulpits?
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@ Kathi~
It is not the first time he has asked for gift cards from Walmart. In one post I read, he claimed he used it for groceries.
“Here’s a good lesson for anyone who gives to Miano’s “ministry.” If he doesn’t offer full disclosure of how your gifts are being used, it’s wise not to give.”
I would love to know how donations are used. From tmiano.com under donate:
“You can also contribute to Tony’s missionary work via check.
Checks should be made payable to: Revival USA
DO NOT place any designation on the check. Leave the memo line blank.
Checks should be mailed to:
Revival USA
PO Box 220087
Newhall, CA 91322
Financial oversight and accountability for Tony Miano’s missionary work is provided by The Ministry of Unification, Inc., DBA “Revival USA.”
There is no Revival USA in Newhall CA. I guess he uses this name for checks from contributors. He can cash them under this name since he is “under” their oversight.
I tried to email Revival asking why Miano tells his contributors (in caps) to NOT place a designation in the memo line and to leave it blank and got nowhere with them. They said I could “trust” Tony. I understand it is easier for all this way, but then again, it seems odd to me. I looked at a lot of other ministries JMacArthur, Sproul, etc., thinking this was the way things were done and could find no similar instructions for the memo line.
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“Tony Miano
about an hour ago.
We’re looking for a few men to serve as street fishermen for Cross Encounters Radio. Your mission: find people on the streets for Tony to share the gospel with on the show. Email: info @tonymiano.com” (Tony Miano FB)
What in the world???
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Diane, this extra rule for giving donations is very odd. I’ve seen it before and it raised red flags for me.
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Yes, we should “trust” Miano. They are all blinded by their ignorance and arrogance.
And, that last FB post?! Sigh. This guy is a piece of work.Can’t he find his own people to share the gospel with? He needs a group of minions to do his work for him.
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I’m off to work for the rest of the day. I look forward to continued reading tomorrow. Have a great day everyone!
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From last March-
“Tony Miano · 3,470 like this
March 8 at 9:04am · ..
Dear Friends,
Presently, we have enough resources in our ministry account to allow us to draw our two-week family needs on March 15. What reserves we had are now gone as living expenses continue to far-exceed the support we receive.
We know that God is faithful even when we are faithless, for He cannot deny Himself. And while this present season has brought with it a level of financial uncertainty, we remain steadfast to where the Lord has us as a family and to where he has me as a herald of the gospel.
Please pray with us that the Lord will continue to meet our needs.
One dear friend and supporter sent us a $500 gift card to Walmart. This provided the majority of our groceries for almost three months.
Might you consider sending us a gift card of any size to Walmart for groceries and other daily household supplies? If so, please mail your gift cards to:
Revival-USA
P.O. Box 220087
Newhall, CA 91322
Thank you, in advance, for your prayerful and physical support.”
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You, too, Kathi. See you later 🙂
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@Kathi:
“And stop screaming. Nobody likes a religion with people screaming.”
— Internet Monk
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A Mom,
Wow–just finished the video–scary and fascinating. I remember leaving Calvinism over a similar “scopolamine question.” Ironically, it was a writing assignment I had to complete at my “reformed” high school: “How do the outcomes of Fate in Greek epics differ from those of Christian Providence?” I could not provide an answer.
Hmm…I wonder if there is anyone out there unhinged enough to attribute crimes to the victims of that substance? I probably do not want to know…
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I’m not a fan of Joyce Meyers as I see her theology as being in extreme error. That being said I have more respect for her than this Tony the teacher character. Joyce tends to treat people respectfully. I met her in an airport once years ago and she was delightful to talk with. Maybe that’s what Christians should be focused on, just being kind people because thanks to people like tony , THAT is not our reputation. How horrible it will be for people to spend eternity in HELL because they encountered the CHRISTIAN BRAND of “love”. The comment that Joyce walks like a man, sounds like a man and preaches like a man is over the top and insulting. The post about him not being intimidated by unrepentant women is also seething with anger and demonstrative of his lack of self control.
Why are guys like tony the teacher intimidated by women ? God uses women as much as men, get over it. Women are not required to submit to men in general, just their husbands ( which they should get to pick out themselves ! ) I wonder how long this whole patriarch War on “normal ” women will continue. It seems to be winding down as many of these self appointed “great” leaders within that movement can’t seem to keep themselves together long enough to direct strategy for the complete take over of Christianity, secular government and culture worldwide. Maybe it’s time for these hard driving, counter-culture revolutionaries to aim for a more reasonable goal. Perhaps they should start with not committing adultery, not abusing their children, honoring their contracts and paying their bills. That would be a huge improvement right there. Then they could work on growing their church to more than just 30-50 families that think just like they do. You know, share the gospel instead of an organizational philosophy.
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I like that, Scott. Share the gospel & live like Jesus instead of drilling into people an organizational philosophy. Yup. With these guys it’s an all-in takeover strategy they’re selling & profiting off of, as you so nicely put it.
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“Ironically, it was a writing assignment I had to complete at my “reformed” high school: “How do the outcomes of Fate in Greek epics differ from those of Christian Providence?” I could not provide an answer.”
Sensible, that is ironic! Not much of a difference. With both, humans are helpless to predetermined fate. No wonder you were stumped, sounds like you actually gave it a thought. I hope you got an A+ on that writing assignment. Anyway, your logic is spot on! 🙂
Funny how you put it. A “scopolamine question”. Fate vs. personal responsibility & culpability.
I believe we are worthy of God’s grace. God deemed that we are, otherwise Jesus would not have wasted His time to die & rise again. People are not crap on God’s shoe. I think the Bible is all about God’s love, God’s very essence. 🙂
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One of the three reasons women should not open-air preach, teach men, or exercise authority over men, which I explain in my book, is that a woman cannot help but to sound and act like a man in the process, thus sacrificing some of her beautiful, God-given femininity.
I have no idea what this means. Exactly what does a man “sound” like? He can’t mean tone of voice or depth of pitch, as some men are “high talkers” (Seinfeld reference).
It makes me think of Ms. Swan … “He sound …. like a man!”
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That was pretty funny, AnotherTom!
This is an excellent article: http://hopefullyknown.com/2013/11/06/the-hole-in-our-complementarianism
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“Miano then gives words of advice to Christian women bloggers:…”
Why does he do this? Why can’t those women ask their husbands at home? Is Miano forcing himself into another man’s home by teaching their wives on the internet? Does he advise the women to gain their husbands’ approvals before listening to his advice? Does HE gain their husbands’ approvals before giving the advice?
And just what about the dangers of online relationships with women? You know, it’s not uncommon for casual, “innocent” social media contact to end up in full blown affairs. Imagine seeing some dude online as being more spiritually capable than your own husband.
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great points Steve~
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” Imagine seeing some dude online as being more spiritually capable than your own husband.”
Imagine seeing some dude behind a pulpit as being more spiritually capable than your own husband. Seriously. Why? On how many occasions have I seen whole groups of married women (not my wife) gush over a so called pastor? Way too many. How often have I seen these so called pastors revel in the adoration.? Too, too many.
Sure, regardless of gender, if somebody who is not a spouse has something profitable to offer, receive it; but never, ever, put put anybody on a pedestal. Absolutely do not ever indulge adoring, deferential, submitted attitudes toward a “pastor,” attitudes that belong only to a spouse. It is emotional adultery. Way too many so called pastors invite, seek and glory in it.
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Steve Scott wrote~
“And just what about the dangers of online relationships with women? You know, it’s not uncommon for casual, “innocent” social media contact to end up in full blown affairs. Imagine seeing some dude online as being more spiritually capable than your own husband.
Miano agrees with you Steve. Maybe he is exempt from being susceptible to this? Yes, that must be it. He is above temptation.
“Wednesday, October 2, 2013A Call to Return to the Church: An Open Letter to the Open-Air Preaching Subculture
The open-air preaching subculture is an unbiblical community in which some people sinfully idolize evangelism, especially open-air preaching and open-air preachers. There is a growing “groupie” mentality within the subculture toward those who are seen as leaders. There are married and unmarried women paying an inordinate amount of time to married men in the subculture.” (Crossencounters blog)
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So true Gary- I have seen it myself.
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Is it wise of Tony to depend on his perpetually decieved women (wife and daughters) for financial support? I mean, we know it is not “manly” to send the women folk out to support him but why would any wise man depend on those who are perpetually deceived? Simply makes no sense to me. Perhaps they are only perpetually deceived when the male anatomy enters the room? Or, perhaps the deception comes when they read scripture. It has to be impossible for the Holy Spirit to guide such perpetually deceived women.
I simply cannot follow the rules of that doctrine in practical application of every day life.
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“I mean, we know it is not “manly” to send the women folk out to support him but why would any wise man depend on those who are perpetually deceived?”
Maybe he just cynically depends on them to be deceived. IMO only the deceived, whether male or female, would be willing to support him. Maybe he thinks he is picking on the easiest targets.
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Steve – It always works like that. They tell everyone else to be under someone’s authority, but they go by different rules. I have a hunch that he would not appreciate anyone teaching his wives or daughters spiritually. You’d have to go through him. But he gets to impart his wisdom wherever he sees fit – even with young college female. He is not her pastor. He is not her father. He is a man with an assumed authority.
What he does not discuss is the YouTube video he took down not too long ago – – the video in which he “encouraged” his daughter to do open-air preaching. I wish it were still online so you could all see. She was standing on a stool, her voice was quivering like she was so scared. It looked like she was coerced and was not comfortable at all, yet there were a group of large men standing around her, egging her on. I thought it looked like psychological manipulation. I felt very sorry for her.
Also, when he worked at Living Waters with Ray Comfort, he taught women to open air preach. He is just like my former pastor, Chuck O’Neal. Chuck O’Neal also sent women out evangelizing in neighborhoods, apartment complexes, etc. O’Neal didn’t say to women that if a man answered the door, then come back and get some guys. Heck no. He expected them to evangelize anybody and everybody who answered the door.
Ok, try to follow my logic: so then Tony has an “awakening” and comes to the conclusion that it is wrong to have women open air preaching. He then studied and wrote a book on the topic. And then what does he do? He charges people for that book. If I had “wrongly” taught something and then had a change of heart, do I market that by writing a book? Do I benefit financially on something that I wrongly taught? Wouldn’t it be more Christian to apologize for wrong teaching and give the book for free?
The hypocrisy astounds me. We have 2 guys who once encouraged women to preach/evangelize to men. Now one man perhaps may profit from this book, the other profits by having his name plastered on the front of the book because he wrote the foreword.
This is not humility. This is not godly. This is for self: $$, name recognition, authority, etc.
hmm, I just typed a post.
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Those Wise Words anything like “ME MAN! ME SPEAK FOR GAWD! YOU WOMAN! YOU SHUT UP!”?
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Steve Scott wrote~
“And just what about the dangers of online relationships with women? You know, it’s not uncommon for casual, “innocent” social media contact to end up in full blown affairs. Imagine seeing some dude online as being more spiritually capable than your own husband.”
Crossencounters blog wrote —
The open-air preaching subculture is an unbiblical community in which some people sinfully idolize evangelism, especially open-air preaching and open-air preachers. There is a growing “groupie” mentality within the subculture toward those who are seen as leaders. There are married and unmarried women paying an inordinate amount of time to married men in the subculture.”
Many years ago, my Dungeonmaster commented that “Most cults are started for three reasons: 1) So the Cult Leader can get rich; 2) So the Cult Leader can get laid any time he wants; and 3) Both of the above.”
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HUG, you forgot , “Ugh!” And “you get slippers on way to work. Me blog.”
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What I find fascinating about this unfolding conversation is that the victims of Tony Miano’s insanity tend to concede his premise . . . and they don’t realize they are doing it.
Of course every argument that agrees in principle is really a conversation over “how much” so the dear women viscerally insulted by Tony’s remarks are still advocating—in a much smaller measure—the same conclusion.
Of course the ‘women must keep quiet in the church’ riff really bothers 21st century women mightily so the hue and cry goes up in earnest as people start thrashing through the bible to refute such Neanderthal-ish ideas so they can pound out a flurry of proof texts across the discernment blogs. It always turns into quit the kerfuffle as the doctrinal hedges pile up and people show their hermeneutic of choice—Biblicism, contextualism, literalism, allegory, et al—without a blush for any inconsistency. And at the end of it all Tony Miano (and many other members of the 2 inch club) persists in his doctrinal thuggery in service to some truly ridiculous ideas. Joyce Meyer will still be out their preaching and women with blogs will still be writing.
Does that mean the conversation is futile?
Well, it is possible that Tony Milan is intellectually unredeemable . . . highly likely in fact that he is unable to argue his way out of a paper bag, so if the goal is to persuade him of his error… yea… good luck with that.
But I submit that the real argument is very winnable.
That is, if one understands the REAL argument. If one does not understand the real argument I submit it is impossible to win an argument if one agrees with the premise.
So what then is the real argument?
Here is the answer: the validity of human epistemology.
For those of you not familiar with my stuff let me briefly expand. Epistemology is the study of HOW man knows what he knows. Historically the world has been divided between two schools of thought. The Platonist school(deriving from Plato) and the Aristotelian school (deriving from Aristotle). Plato argued that Man’s epistemology was flawed. Aristotle argued that Man’s epistemology was effective.
Of course, for the bulk of human history Plato has won this argument. And this success is in no small part because of Christianity. In fifth century Saint Augustine (may his name live in infamy) integrated Platonism into Christianity. The result is that 90% of Christian doctrine is rooted in Platonist/Augustinian philosophy . . . which means the leading “Christian” epistemological assumption is that Man’s perceptual/rational faculties are irreparably flawed.
Why are Man’s perceptual/rational faculties flawed?
Well, as good Augustinians (and subsequently Lutherans and Calvinists) the answer is biological corruption. Adam commits the “original sin” and passes down epistemological corruption like a disease through the act of sex.
Of course the question is then: “If man is corrupt, then HOW can he know TRUTH?”
Plato said the only way for Man to know TRUTH is for a select group of men, who are—somehow—unique, to mediate the TRUTH to the barbarian hoards.
Of course Augustine really liked this idea. He upped the ante and said that the select group of men was in fact the church leadership. (And here is the important part) These leaders were in fact just as corrupt as the sinners in the chancel BUT they were divinely appointed stewards of God’s revelation. No one could really “Understand” with any epistemological certainly the nature of TRUTH; all anyone could really do is subordinate their rational faculties to the authorities ordained to preserve the revelation.
So the means of TRUTH is really AUTHORITY.
Of course Augustine loved this conclusion (as did Luther and Calvin) because he understood what so many Christians do not: Authority = government and government = force. Full stop. (Thanks Argo)
That is right: Authority = force.
So whenever you hear some preacher thumping the Plexiglas podium, ever so politely appealing to your submission to his “authority” you need to realize he is really demanding your subordination to his FORCE. It doesn’t matter how nice he makes it sound … he is overtly declaring his right to use FORCE against your “unrepentant” body.
Of course American Christianity has a problem with this particular conclusion. And here is why.
In 1250 Saint Thomas Aquinas rediscovered Aristotle and introduced his ideas—specifically his epistemology—into western thought. I will summarize (greatly) Aristotle’s contribution by saying this: It is from the Axioms that Aristotle discovered that that all effective human cognition flows: all laws of logic, all of man’s conceptual capacity, all of man’s reason, and—most importantly—man’s capacity to grasp the world in which he lives.
Aristotelian thought means that existence is knowable, understandable, and practicable; that all men have the means to arrive at truth; that knowledge is available for all who will use the laws and the rules of logic to obtain it.
And herein is Aristotle’s impact on Western thought:
When using the laws of thought, the mind of man is effective to understand man’s existence. An existence that is identifiable is an existence that is understandable. An existence that is understandable is an existence that is explorable. An existence that is explorable is an existence that is controllable. An existence that is controllable is an existence that man can master.
It was this revolutionary conclusion that sparked the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, The Age of Reason, the industrial revolution . . . and most importantly the Founding Fathers creation of the most important Political document every crafted by men: the Declaration of independence and the Bill of Rights.
So you think I have wandered far afield of the Tony Miano’s female subordination dealeo?
Not so much.
The reason you dear women recoil so hard against Tony’s doctrine is because your real intellectual heritage is the Enlightenment. You are daughters of Aristotle. Deep down inside you presume the equality of your rational faculties. You recoil against the absurdity that estrogen is an epistemological disqualifier.
And this is the real argument that Tony is offering: Authority as the means of TRUTH vs Man’s epistemology as the means to TRUTH.
All epistemology based on Authority REQUIRES some form of subordination. There are only two options in the form: self-subordination or tyranny. You will either willingly bow your mind OR the authorities reserve the right to beat you into submission. It is that simple.
Of course all Tony has done is drill down on the Augustinian premise to its logical conclusion: if Adam’s “original sin” disqualifies man’s epistemology through sex, how much greater is the corruption of those women with vaginas? They are the ones who caused all the problems to begin with. If Eve hadn’t “tempted” Adam with the HooHa man wouldn’t have “fallen.” Ergo, women are—somehow—more corrupt and have no business dabbling in the lofty TRUTHS WAAAAAAY above their pay grade. So you women should just sit down and shut up. You should self-subordinate because he is the rightful steward of God’s revelation, because he has authority. See, it says so right here!
“But John, you said that I agreed with him, and I most certainly don’t believe that.”
No, I said you concede the premise.
In this instance the premise is that the source of TRUTH is in fact authority. The giveaway is the endless scripture stacking in counter argument of Tony’s assertion. The loose logic goes like this the bible is the truth, because the bible is the authority therefore if only Tony would “submit” his rational conclusions to scripture X and scripture Y his intellectual conclusions would be different.
Of course this is of exactly Tony’s premise. The bible is the truth and if only you females would just subordinate your un-submissive souls you would see that HE is the correct AUTHORITY. His commitment to Augustine’s’ epistemological doctrine is total. And as daughters of the enlightenment AND daughters of Platonist/Augustinian doctrine your commitment is partial. But you still agree with the premise.
As long as people concede that Man’s means of truth is “authority” the ONLY argument to have is WHO is qualified to have AUTHORITY. And if you ended up with the short stick of Estrogen, you don’t have a prayer.
The only way to defeat Tony Miano’s epistemological disaster is to reject the roots of his theology which means you must reject his premise: Authority = means of TRUTH.
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Codswallop! If anyone wants to know just how crazy the current complementarian/patriarchal religious world is, just read the explanation of how he listens to Joni! ROFL.
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That was quite an explanation, john. I think there’s a much easier question, one which was answered quite succinctly by Joss Whedon at a speech he made just the other day. (easy to find on You Tube) The question is this: Do you think women are equal to men or don’t you? To most intelligent people, there’s only one answer.
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“It might be wise for Christian women bloggers to give some written indication on their blog that their primary audience, if their blog is directed toward the Christian community, is Christian women. This might help fend off unwanted, unbelieving men from posting comments, and it might help in rightly discouraging Christian men from placing themselves under the teaching of a Christian woman.”
This reminds me of the “women should dress modestly so they don’t cause men to sin” topic… Why are women always to blame?
P.S. I’m Hannah, Julie Anne’s daughter – I just started blogging so WordPress started acting up when I signed my name the way I used to because now I have a blog with them
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John, I agree with your analysis and the conclusion. However, if we are Christians, we have an authority, the Holy Spirit, and it is the only authority we need in regard to faith and life. No earthly authority should intervene, b/c to do so is to attempt to supplant God, which is sin many times over.
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