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Alan Maricle aka @Rhology defends and imitates J.D. Hall’s (aka @pulpitandpen) bad behavior on Twitter.
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Admin note: I’m going to take the easy route here and jump into a situation to discuss it without giving a lot of background. However, if you want to know the background of this story, please visit Wartburg Watch blog and read Dee’s excellent article, JD Hall and Friends: “Theological Thuggery” and Braxton Caner’s Suicide.
Ok, the brief background to this story is concerning J.D. Hall, the lead pastor at Fellowship Baptist Church in Sidney, Montana. He maintains a blog, does frequent podcasts, and has an online presence on Twitter as @PulpitandPen. J.D. Hall has been going after Ergun Caner on Twitter for quite some time. It was when he started tweeting Caner’s 15-yr old son, Braxton, that it crossed the line for me. I saw the behavior as highly inappropriate.
Late in July, Braxton Caner committed suicide. The blogosphere and those who have been following this story on Twitter have been responding to this situation, calling Hall’s twitter behavior as bullying and saying that the tweets could have contributed to his suicide. There has been media outrage about this. And rightly so.
Last night, I woke up in the middle of the night and shouldn’t have looked at my phone, but when I did, I saw that @Rhology had responded to a tweet of mine. Earlier in the day, I had responded to this.
Well, now at nearly 3AM my time, he was engaging me. I responded a few times and realized it was futile. You can find that conversation here on a Storify I created:
@Rhology, a #pulpiteers, and defender of J.D. Hall shows us what his kind of Christian love looks like
This is a good sampling of what @Rhology is like and how he interacts with people on Twitter.
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Who is @Rhology?
I found his name listed at J.D. Hall’s blog site, Pulpit and Pen:
Alan Maricle is an abolitionist living in Oklahoma, and blogs at Abolish Human Abortion and Rhoblogy.
A quick Google search showed that he is an abortion protestor and has been named in the news. In that article he is shown protesting outside a high school. I’ve never heard of abortion protestors outside of high schools. In this article, he is protesting at Satanic Exorcism Ritual at Oklahoma City’s Civic Center.
But it is his online dialogue, how he debates, and who he defends which disturb me the most.
It’s important to note that J.D. Hall has a group of friends, called #pulpiteers (taken from Hall’s Twitter name and blog name, @pulpitand pen and Pulpit and Pen, respectively) whom he refers to on his tweets. I’ll explain.
Twitter 101
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For those new or unfamiliar with Twitter, let me explain a bit because it’s important to understand how this social media is being used by J.D. Hall and his group.
On Twitter, everybody has their own “handle.” Mine is @DefendtheSheep. The @ sign identifies a Twitter user. There are also # – hashtags.
A while back, I organized a group and the social media guru in the group decided to use the hashtag #whowouldJesusSue (this was to bring social media attention to Alex Grenier’s lawsuit by his pastor and father, Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia). People tweeting about this story included the hashtag #whowouldJesusSue. We’ve seen conferences identified by hashtags. Let’s say Southern Baptist Conference wants to coordinate a Twitter hashtag for an upcoming conference. They might announce #SBC2014 as the hashtag. The cool feature about hashtags is you can click on the hashtag because it is a hyperlink and see all other tweets that include the specific hashtag. When I clicked on #whowouldJesusSue hashtag, I could see all of the tweets and people involved in helping this cause. I was able to find other like-minded individuals who were supportive of the cause and connect with them. It’s a very handy feature on Twitter.
So, J.D. Hall, has essentially created a group of his buddies that he refers to as #pulpiteers. He includes the hashtag in his tweets and when his friends tweet, they also include it. They can quickly click on the hashtag to see what their group is tweeting about.
Clicking on this #pulpiteers link, you will see all of the tweets that have the hashtag #pulpiteers. Right now, there is a loud response to J.D. Hall and the #pulpiteer’s behavior and so people who are upset at them are also using the hashtag. If you scroll down, you will see what it used to be like with primarily JD Hall and his buddies using the hashtag.
#pulpiteers Gang Mentality
When you look at those who identify with the #pulpiteers hash tag, they are essentially saying, “I am one of them,” “I am choosing to wear the label,” and “I align myself with JD Hall and his message.”
I was thinking about this. Isn’t this what we see with teenage gangs who wear certain clothing, i.e., certain colored bandana, a certain kind of hat, etc? I hate to say it, but it looks obvious to me that this group is functioning as a gang would. They wear their label proudly and behave just like a street gang, but instead of using real weapons, they use God and scripture as a weapon.
J.D. Hall is the gang leader and the #pulpiteers will fight to the figural death defending their hero leader or also one another. They use Christianese talk, quote Scripture, talk about love, but their behavior completely discounts everything they say. So many people are picking up on it and in fact, a UK blog site, the freethinker – which looks to be an atheist blog site, was the first to cover the story connecting J.D. Hall with the suicide of Braxton Caner, The suicide of a preacher’s kid.
The following Twitter conversation is a prime example of a pulpiteer defending another pulpiteer. Dustin Germain is part of that group. He mans J.D. Hall’s website and is the one who made the choice to pull down the article J.D. Hall posted after the online dialogue. (In the post, Hall defended himself, and later added some sort of apology, but not really an apology as far as I’m concerned. The article can be found in Google’s cache.) Anyway, here is an example of Dustin Germain aka @paperhymn coming to the defense of Alan Maricle aka @Rhology who is coming to the defense of J.D. Hall. His comment is at the bottom of the tweet thread.
These gangsters are deluded. They have made up their own religion where love means gang-like badgering and bullying and calling people to repent. This is not the 1 Corinthians 13 love I see in the Bible. This is not kindness that brings people to repentance.
Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? Romans 2:4
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Updated to add this image about #pulpiteers. Special thanks to Kay who provided the info:
Related link: Michael Newnham of Phoenix Preacher, The Rise and Fall of J.D. Hall
Spiritual Sounding Board 
you missed the tweets where I told rho that i disagreed with him
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Whoa. Going to go all “ad hominum” for a moment.
“Pulpiteer” just makes me think of overgrown Mouseketeers. Would that make them Rats?
Who does this man think he is, to dictate the prayers of others? We are directed, among other things, to pray for our enemies. But Jesus also prayed for His sheep, and He raised a little girl from the dead even though He hadn’t preached repentance to her beforehand, so far as we know, and…
He died for us, even when we were yet sinners. He looked with compassion on the people who were like sheep without a shepherd. They didn’t have to “get it right” first.
We aren’t allowed, by his standards, even to offer condolences to the heart-broken? Reminds me of an “Ellen White” follower I once knew, who went to a man’s funeral and was deluded/hard-hearted enough to tell the man’s widow, when other friends were trying to comfort her with the thought she’d see her husband again in heaven, that none of us will really know if we’re saved until after we die, so there was no way of knowing if he was saved, or even if she was.
This man is breathing flames from the pit of hell.
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dustin, how does that make any sense. If you disagreed with J.D. Hall, then why are you defending @rhology?
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HELP! I have been hanging here on JDs wall of shame since March & I really need to get back to work. Warning, don’t disagree with him or his gang or you will be up here with me and some other preachers too
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Wait . . . what’s with the JDs wall of shame, Darrell? Something is sounding familiar. Sorry to disturb your work. It disturbed my sleep last night. The whole thing is disturbing.
PS note to Dustin: Sorry, I had to delete the tweet in which you corresponded to me because I made a typo and left out the “s” in #pulpiteers. I sent out a new tweet, so feel free to carry on if you like.
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What came to mind while I was reading your post, Julie Anne, is how in Jesus’ day, men who thought themselves more clever than Jesus consistently baited him with ha-ha-let’s-trip-him-up kinds of questions that made huge, false theological assumptions. Like, “So, tell us, who sinned, this man or his parents that he should be born blind?” Or, after spinning out the elaborate story of a multi-time widow of a series of brothers, some asked “Whose wife will she be in heaven?”
Which just goes to show, doesn’t matter whether the baiters are “liberal”/Sadducees or “conservative”/Pharisees — foolishness and abuse can descend from any theological and/or political direction. Anyway, Jesus often answered sincere questions clearly and directly, but this other kind of bait-and-switch tactic, well, he often switched their bait instead of biting.
Unfortunately, I see similar characteristics in a lot of social media wars. It’s sad to see the kinds of provocative and punitive tweets in your Storify link, and the unethical (in my opinion) interactions of adults with a minor as in the situation of Braxton Caner. Not necessary, not civil or kind, not redemptive.
FWIW, I commented some thoughts on Wartburg Watch about this, and also what makes Twitter a uniquely suited match for rather ugly grenade-a-thon “discussions” like the series you posted in your Storify link.
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2014/08/05/jd-hall-and-friends-theological-thuggery-and-braxton-caners-suicide/#comment-153213
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You say my only goal is to defend a fellow pulpiteer .. you quote one of my tweets where I defend rho as a brother and as a christian, and leave out the tweet in the same thread where i tell him “i think you need to careful with this and trying to make it universal. Many people don’t know about the issues. We ought to support them in grief”
We don’t see eye to eye on the extent of that particular issue, and the exact application [though I am sympathetic to his view] but i’m not going to let someone tear him down and accuse him of not being a Christian or not being a kind and gracious and thoughtful man
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dustin, I’ve been reading through his tweets. They are disgusting. The amount of time he sits on his high horse telling people to repent is ridiculous. How many people have altered their course of life as result of Rho blasting at them to repent. Can you name one? He tried to give me verses where Jesus told people to repent. Was Jesus behaving like a bully? Did he go after people for days, months, telling them to repent? What about the last verse I put on my page? Kindness leading to repentance? Where is that shown in his behavior? His fruit is his behavior and it has a stench. Why is it that so many Christians are saying this and you can’t see it, Dustin? Is your allegiance with these guys so strong that you are losing a discerning spirit? Please, take a look at your friends and their character and tell me if you see Christ.
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And yet, Dustin, he is constantly accusing other professing Christians of being faithless. His blog is really ugly and he seems to exult in the idea that he is the right kind of Christian who will get to be saved but that there are many other Christians who are wrong on some point of doctrine and will go to hell. He is not kind at all. Can’t you see that?
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Because I intentionally tend *not* to follow such hateful drama from so-called “Christians” (I’m in a phase of protecting myself emotionally and spiritually), I would have never known about the Rhology and J.D. Hall mess. My heart sunk so deep in prayer for Dr. Caner and his family. Thank you, Julie, for bringing the evil into the light, so the Light can expose it for what it is.
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From the wayback machine – PulpitandPen.org as recently as July 2, 2014
In their own words…
THE PULPITEERS
The Pulpiteers are a unique group of rabble rousers that use their social media to get out the Truth about evangelicalism’s need for Reformation. They are a Gospel-centered army, using their social media to advance the cause. They follow the Pulpit & Pen blog, subscribe to the podcast, and receive email alerts about how they can be activated at a moment’s notice to spread time-sensitive information in their spheres of influence.
To become a Pulpiteer, click on the link “Become a Pulpiteer” on the homepage and you’ll start receiving updates.
…they sound like a reformed sleeper cell – “can be activated at a moment’s notice”
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Wow, Kay, thanks for that. So, I’m not all that out of line by calling them gangsters. I found it and added a screenshot at the bottom of the post.
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What Rho tweeted is vile. He put it on the hashtag for those mourning Braxton. His soul is seared. There is nothing “thoughtful” about that except cruel thoughts.
Is this really what the McArthur brigade along with Pyro attracts as followers these days? Phoenix Preacher says they were promoting JD not long ago. Now they are silent.
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JD, Rhology, Dustin, repetitive and predatory blasting shows me a lack of faith on the Pulpit and Pen site.
You guys go beyond expressing and raising your views instead you take matters into your own hands rather than relying on the Holy Spirit.
You guys really need to re-evaluate and stop this nonsense. This sparring back and forth isn’t a sport to me but maybe it is for the Pulpit and Pen gang.
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Hang tight for that thought. I plan on going places with that, Lydia.
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Rhology is also a contributor on Triablogue: http://triablogue.blogspot.com/
Can you say “birds of a feather” …
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The Christian Post has picked up on this story, though it inaccurately suggests that Hall’s apology was made after the tragedy, when it was actually before: http://www.christianpost.com/news/after-braxton-caners-suicide-baptist-preacher-says-he-regrets-twitter-battle-with-teenager-124130/
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Nicholas – I have read somewhere that he may have apologized after the tragedy. I wish I remember where I saw it. The only apology that we have seen to date is the one which is in the cached link (above in the article).
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Anyone else notice how authoritarian and mean much of Protestantism has become? I sometimes feel like it might be evil to attend church as I don’t really know what I might be inadvertently supporting. It is all so deceptive and twisted anymore.
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These men are lovers of evil and haters of good. God has warned those who profess to believe in Jesus Christ to have nothing to do with such men as these for they are dangerous and they will stop at nothing in order to carry out their wicked deeds, as is evident in yet another young life who is here no more. I would not respond or comment on any of their blogs lest someone we love becomes their next victim, yes, there will be many more victims because they are simply living out an evil doctrine of which they believe: they are totaly depraved, they have no good in them, they are vile, evil, wicked men and women who proudlly boast of their dead cult leaders John Calvin and Martin Luther. Their behavior is all too familiar, no? even predictable. Believe them when they say they are nothing but sinners. We should have nothing to do with them while exposing their evil.
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That’s a good point.
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Lydia,
I have never felt like a Protestant so I suppose I don’t know exactly what that means. I’m not protesting anything. I believe the Bible to be God’s inspired word which men such as these twist to suit themselves. They are wolves trying to devour the sheep. In this case it appears to have been a 15 year old boy. We don’t know what other abuse this young man endured because of this. So what if he was caught kissing a girl. Isn’t that what young men do? The whole thing makes me sick.
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RE: Kay’s quote from Pulpit and Pen and Lydia’s 11:56 AM comment.
There is an informative comment at Wartburg by “Hard to find the words…” that cites the same quote and makes the same connection:
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2014/08/05/jd-hall-and-friends-theological-thuggery-and-braxton-caners-suicide/#comment-153158
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“Anyone else notice how authoritarian and mean much of Protestantism has become? I sometimes feel like it might be evil to attend church as I don’t really know what I might be inadvertently supporting. It is all so deceptive and twisted anymore.”
I have. Attend?…maybe. Join and sign THEIR (it’s surely not for my benefit) covenant? Never.
“Is this really what the McArthur brigade along with Pyro attracts as followers these days? Phoenix Preacher says they were promoting JD not long ago. Now they are silent.”
I find that interesting too. Don’t forget Miano. He fits right in with that crowd. And here is the kicker. These guys will rarely listen to us “persecutors” should we share a concern or 100 regarding how they are emulating Christ. It is all disregarded as persecution. Or that we are unbelievers/hairy ticks. Or that we do not know the” true” gospel.
I used to listen to White many years ago. He seemed pretty much to be a lone ranger and do his own thing-his show and his debates. Then came Elephant room and his friendship with NOCO radio Mike Abendroth and did a couple of those ER videos on NOCO radio with Phil Johnson and Carl Truman…and notice he exchanges tweets with Miano sometimes and it’s too bad, I guess, to see him associated with them, imo.
The more disagreement (Miano calls us detractors) these types get, the more they are inflamed to do more of what they are doing, as they view discord and strife as evidence of their God ordained missions. Oh, and how do we know their mission is God ordained? Because they say so. Or their followers say so. Or their pulpiteers say so. It is all very man-centered. The praise and defense they heap on each other is quite suspect. Jesus warned us regarding praises of men and false flattery.
I am so sorry for Caner’s son. So heartbreaking. I have not “called” Ergun Caner to
repent for anything (but being a wimins, I imagine the pulpiteer crowd would not allow that anyway) but I have every right to offer my grief and sympathy and for a someone to forbid that… well, the arrogance of that is shocking.
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Dustin, Can you clarify something else for me? It has been written that JD Hall’s child was in the hospital when he was having that twitter interaction with Braxton. Will you tell us if this is true or not honestly?
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“I’m not protesting anything”
Hee hee. That is exactly what my mom said. :o)
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barnabasintraining, It is so weird. I used to read Gene’s comments years back on some blogs and he seemed so calm and mature. I am shocked he hangs with that gang now and was involved in this.
But then, I am shocked that a rabid Calvinist SBC pastor who took the lead on SBC pastor blogs defending Calvin interpretation of scripture and arguing for Reformed as truth is now an Atheist, left his pastorate and is a lot nicer in comments.
There are some other things I won’t go into but it is getting very creepy out there in Christendom.
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Lydia – this is from JD Hall’s facebook post from July 1st
I don’t think I can put a screenshot here so this is a copy/paste
Jordan Hall
July 1
.
Gus is probably OK. His bilirubin levels are down considerably and probably be able to come home in a day or two. So, praise the Lord.
4942 SharesShare
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Gene G Clyatt, Susie Law, Katie Swanson Nielsen and 46 others like this.
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Sharon Lodge Great news and praise God/ Will continue to pray for you all.
July 1 at 11:35am
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Darlene Johnson Still praying for you all!
July 1 at 12:09pm
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Bill Borchert Amen Pastor
July 2 at 12:02am
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Kay, thanks so much for finding that.
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And somehow my former pastor who sued me and implicated Grace Community by saying a pastor from Grace Community encouraged him to sue me gets a free pass. Tony Miano and Ken Cook from CARM will be part of his 2nd annual evangelism outreach. So many of these guys are in it together.
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It’s also posted on JD Hall’s Twitter here:
and then 2 days later:
Notice the dates.
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JD is without excuse. He could have tagged Ergun Caner all by himself so that only Ergun would see it. Instead, he tagged them both. It put both father/son in a very awkward position.
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So his infant is in NICU and he is bothering with Braxton on twitter. Perhaps he should rethink what is “immoral” in that scenario.
I will never understand that movement as long as I live. I don’t want to, either.
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I don’t understand this mindset, Julie Anne. If my daughter or one of my grandsons had a medical emergency, I would use social media to let friends know so they could pray with us, not to make a theological point.
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Marsha, And when the flight nurse says, “good luck”, he critiques her words and ignores her intent. It’s like these men are so literal and critical that they have hardened their own hearts towards the compassion of others. JA, Thank you for the link to Phoenix Preacher’s blog. I agree with his statement, “There is the thinnest of lines between being a reformer and an abuser!”
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I don’t get it, Lydia. If I found my husband was blathering on Twitter rather than supporting me and our family during a family crisis . . . . . . . . no words.
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I know, I feel bad for his family. I really do. They are so into gender roles and manly men stuff but then something like this sort of makes it all come out fake.
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“Marsha, And when the flight nurse says, “good luck”, he critiques her words and ignores her intent. It’s like these men are so literal and critical that they have hardened their own hearts towards the compassion of others. ”
You know, I live at ground zero so I hear that sort of thing all the time. one must work hard for it not to be their normal, I have noticed. So many SBTS grads out there with the same sort of personality. There is a mindset in that movement that is cultish in nature. One cannot even accept a word of cheer from someone without turning it into a theological lesson. In their minds, that glorifies God.
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Lydia,
“I’m not protesting anything”
Hee hee. That is exactly what my mom said. :o)
I’m not sure if that is good or bad in your view, but I think I like your Mom.
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Brenda, I was in the 6th grade and doing a paper on Protestants. I asked my mom if we would be considered Protestants and she answered: ‘I’m not protesting anything”. I got a big kick out of it. What you said made me think of that exchange.
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Dustin,
I know this may be overwhelming to you, but using heavy handed tactics and the constant predatory cyber bullying Pulpit and Pen embrace is non-sense. It is a sign of your lack of faith, rather than leaning on the Holy Spirit to work, every time you guys raise a concern.
Now I have to challenge myself to allow the Holy Spirit to work in your life (including my own life rather than trying to critique Pulpit and Pen)
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Yep, Lydia. I like your Mom. I grew being taught that protestants came out of the Catholic Church. I was never Catholic, so I am not a protestant.
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Did The Christian Post just take down that article???
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Never mind: it’s back. Moving along … nothing to see here. :^)
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It should be noted that when Hall engaged Braxton Caner on twitter, Hall’s friends Maricle (Rhology), Gene Clyatt, Fred Butler, and “Wolf’s Bane” all piled on then as well: https://twitter.com/PulpitAndPen/status/484382122958790656
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JA,
Notice who it is these men point to, their Calvin and not God. There was another commenter boasting in her Calvin in another thread while telling others to ‘shut up’. Perhaps this ‘flight nurse’ prayed to God on behalf of this infant while praying for this grown man and that he would come to see his arrogance for what it truly is: hatred.
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Nicholas,
I only got as far as the first one, “apple doesn’t fall far from the tree”.
That is utter nonsense. Christian families will have a child who choose Buddhism in adulthood. Parents who are atheist will have children who become Christians. That is one of the dumbest sayings ever written. Free Will folks, we all have it.
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pondering,
A nurse has to be so careful in her position to not push any religiosity on patience. Saying “good luck” is a kind gesture expressing positive thoughts to someone without stepping on anyone’s religious toes. To ridicule her wording was obnoxious. Where’s the gratefulness in his heart that his infant had a compassionate nurse caring for his son? Good grief, he has to nit-pick theology even while his son is being airlifted for a life-threatening issue? The fruit. It’s evident.
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Howdy. Some of you may recognize my username from The Twitter – I’m an ex-Evangelical convert to Islam, so I’ve been following pretty much everyone who has been writing about the whole Ergun thing. I just had to post to get this off my chest.
As we say here in Alabama, this has been “grieving my heart” for a while. While I appreciate that many people have stood up for the fact that truth is important, a lot of people have shown rather, uh, dogged sides when it comes to attacking Caner. Part of the reason that the criticism was justified is that Caner is a public figure who has the potential to influence the views of a huge amount of people in a deceptive way.
That. did. not. apply. to. his. son.
There was literally no reason to comment on anyone in his family at all. None of them were involved. Even if they were, none of them were public figures. Targeting family members is horrifically unjust, and even mentioning them is scandalous. If your criticisms are coming from a place of desiring truth, or justice, or accountability, there is no way to justify involving anyone else. Those are the fruit of strange motives.
Even beyond that, this makes me think of a problem with harassment that friends of mine are having in a different (non-religious) community. It’s high time that people on the internet realize that, if you have a following, calling out people who aren’t public figures is dangerous. I have seen so many people harassed because some c-list blogging celebrity decided to do a “call-out” post of some random woman on twitter, leading to their legion of followers flooding their mailboxes with hatemail, death threats, rape threats, and other awful things. Even if someone doesn’t MEAN for their followers to do that, it’s a common consequence of focusing your celebrity on critiquing everyday people (like teenagers and children!) who don’t have ways to deal with harassment like a public figure would.
“If I mention this person, will some of my followers take this too far?” is a question everyone should ask.
Sorry if this is inappropriate, Julie Ann, this has just been bugging me for a long time and it seemed like as good a place as any to get it off my chest.
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Madhabmatics,
Welcome to SSB. Your comment was perfectly appropriate, sincere and good. Thank you!
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Hakim,
I will not be approving your inappropriate comment. We aren’t using this thread to attack Ergun Caner. Go somewhere else. Better yet, find a healthy hobby where people won’t get hurt.
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JA that is what happens when you live in a black and white world with sound bytes and slogans. I hope Mr. Hall’s child does real well and gets healthy quickly. A side note from my reading alot of the medical interventions used today are at least partly predicated on the validity of the Theory of Evolution. I wonder if they think on that when they go to the hospital.
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Amen to all you said Madhabmatics. If amen isn’t appropriate, then yes, yes!
“That. did. not. apply. to. his. son.”
I am so tore up over this, I probably should comment more to release the toxins that choke the living daylights out of me. Crying a lot here in MI. Praying & grieving for the family. I just don’t understand how cruel & hardhearted these men who profess Jesus are. It is beyond sad, a boy has died. Lord have Mercy, Christ have Mercy.
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There is something disturbing about social media being used as a tool by some Christians to call out others on their sin. There is a whole lot wrong with an adult engaging a teenager in social media interactions in the way that Braxton Caner was being engaged. Many people were disillusioned by the news that Ergun Caner had fabricated his background and so in that way many were “personally” affected, but to continue to badger him about it over the years is not calling him to repentance. Admittedly, I am not up to speed on this, and it may take me awhile to get through these links. I was aware of it when it came to light, but had no idea that a controversy continued to boil and that Caner was being hounded on social media. Where should Christians draw the line on social media use and when does it become abuse?
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Bystander, (and Julie Anne)
During the week of May 22, 2014 JD Hall engaged in a debate with a teenaged son of a youth pastor at Ronnie Floyd’s church for a questionable video while constantly criticizing the Church during several of his threads.
I think Ronnie Floyd was elected SBC President.
I finally wrote to JD and suggested for him to raise his concerns about that video and the teenager, to the Elders of Ronnie Floyd’s church rather than continuing to go viral. I suggested this dialogue was an embarrassment and that he needed to trust the Holy Spirit and allow their church elders to offer counseling to this teenager if he needed it, but he kept verbally pounding that church anyway
I have serious doubt that the Pulpit Master and his Pulpiteers lack the kind of faith to trust in the Holy Spirit to carry out God’s will.
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“The more disagreement (Miano calls us detractors) these types get, the more they are inflamed to do more of what they are doing, as they view discord and strife as evidence of their God ordained missions. Oh, and how do we know their mission is God ordained? Because they say so. Or their followers say so. Or their pulpiteers say so. It is all very man-centered. The praise and defense they heap on each other is quite suspect. Jesus warned us regarding praises of men and false flattery.”
Good point Diane.
Here’s another excellent point made by ‘pondering’, “Notice who it is these men point to, their Calvin and not God.” Notice also the pride in Hall’s response to the nurse wishing him luck, ‘ Madam, we are Calvinists.’ Where is THAT found in the bible?!? So much for sola scriptura; the Lord Jesus repeatedly tells us to follow Him, NOT John Calvin. Men like Hall are guilty of idolatry, he and his cronies worship a mortal man. There is much danger in claiming allegiance to a certain denomination, or the teachings of mortal men. How ironic is it these types are so quick to point out the spec in the eye of another, but are blind to the huge redwoods protruding out of their own eyes.
Those who holler ‘repent!’ the loudest are the ones who need repentance the most. They feel no shame when they attack, belittle, or set themselves up as the judge of another’s soul. Isn’t that telling? I would guess sinners like J.D. Hall have never studied 1 Corinthians 13. It probably isn’t ‘manly’ to be loving and show compassion; stony hearts tell the real story.
May the Lord bring comfort to the Caner family.
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Contrary to speculation, JD Hall is not out there somewhere keeping quiet.
http://www.worldviewweekend.com/radio
http://worldviewweekend.org/radio/audio/jd-hall-august-7-2014
At this website, JD HALL audio is available July 31, 2014, August 1,5,6,and 7. On the 7th, JD Hall addresses briefly the death of Braxton Caner. (Old audio is available for Feb and Mar 2014.)
8/6/2014
Who is:
JESSE JOHNSON (Pastor of Immanuel Bible Church in Springfield, VA. Graduate of The Master’s Seminary, former staff member of Grace Community Church and son-in-law of Bill Shannon. Julie Anne will remember Bill I’m sure.)
BRANNON HOWSE (introduction to the program by Brannon – founder of World View Radio and Weekend.)
Audio begins:
“This is Jesse Johnson from the program, “Immanuel” on World View Radio. Jesus said that where truth goes, freedom follows. World View radio is a powerful ministry as it takes truth and disseminates it. Brannon and his staff have a strategic ministry because they are able to shine a bright light on some dark corners of evangelicalism. That light exposes error, but more than that it also teaches people to love the truth…” (continues with plea for financial support)
Continues:
“This is the Pulpit and Pen radio program with your host JD Hall. Hello I am Brannon House with World View Weekend and WorldViewRadio.com. We are pleased to have taken part in helping launch this program as it seeks to fulfill our ultimate mission and goal which is to protect and proclaim a biblical world view. Pulpit and Pen radio program is distributed in part as a ministry of the World View Weekend Foundation and now here is your host, JD Hall.”
JD HALL speaks. (Note: I’ve not listened to the entire audios, but skipped along the minutes and heard nothing on Braxton until the 8/7 audio.
8/7/2014
JD Hall talks about Braxton Caner early in the audio before launching into his program..
JD HALL (excerpt transcript)
“Let me address something really quickly, something terribly, terribly sad. Um the passing of Braxton Caner. Um a lot of people have asked me for comment, I don’t want to say a lot, but a few, a few have emailed me “Can you make a comment about this?” Um the answer is uh first of all the time is not right. Um no. No I’m not at this point in time. Um not exactly the sensitive thing to do. Um secondly, um I’ve had emails, couple phone calls, saying “What exactly happened there?” Um what was the extent of your interaction with with uh with Braxton Caner.
Um I’ll tell you the same thing I’ve told the handful of people that have called on the phone um it’s there for you to see. Uh nothing of our interaction has been deleted. Not a single thing.
Uh we did take a post down off the Pulpit and Pen in relation to this um because I was asked um by uh The Wartburg Watch or one of their twitter accounts to do so and uh I talked to somebody smarter than me and they said yeah for the time being why don’t you do that. So we consented and then a few minutes later I saw some of the same people say “You’re just trying to hide stuff”. Nope um we’re trying to be sensitive. When the time comes we will discuss this more fully.
In the meantime, like the rest of of the world I will be praying for the Caner family and would ask you to do the same. And so I will leave it there for the time being because that is what is prudent it is what is sensitive and at this point in time I think it is the only thing that is helpful and even that may be an overstatement in this terrible time. It’s one of those situations where words literally cannot express the hardship that is present in their lives at the moment.”
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Thank you for that info, Kay. I’m listening to it now. I cannot tell you how much JD reminds me of my former pastor. He’s very well spoken. Boy he sure dislikes Peter Lumpkins.
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Pulpiteer,
Take out the “L” and we have pupiteer. Spelled correctly, we have puppeteer.
Strings.
Calvinism. God is the puppeteer, and we are his dolls. I think they call that the Sovereignty of God? We are stars in his play? Obviously, God isn’t as great of a play writer as Shakespeare was. I wonder how this god would have written Romeo and Juliette?
Nine days and counting…JD Hall hasn’t tweeted since July 29, 2014.
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David,
That is a good thing to be kicked out of. You had a very valid question. The wolf didn’t want to answer.
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Scares and saddens me when atheists have more common sense and basic decency than Christians.
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chapmaned24,
“Nine days and counting,,,,,,,,,,,,,,”
Hopefully its permanent.
A read a Peter Lumpkins post addressing preacher cyber-bullying, a month ago. Sadly it still goes on.
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Did you see further up from Kay the comment that he is still broadcasting?
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Yes, I did see several um’s and uh’s and the rhetoric was uncharacteristic of his normal neo-aggressive behavior with the exception of his own personal need to realize his own lack of faith in the Holy Spirit to carry his burdens, instead of hatefully attacking his Doctrinal adversaries.
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This is the SAME J.D.Hall who wrote that children’s book (original title) “MOM! THERE ARE ARMINIANS UNDER MY BED!” That says it all. Purity of Ideology worthy of Citizen Robespierre or Comrade Pol Pot.
And then there are his Homeys/Enforcers “The Pulpiteers”. Hope J.D.Hall knows how to pull off Plausible Deniability after he points at an enemy and goes “SIC EM!”
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@Madhabmatics:
Ask King Henry regarding Thomas a Becket:
“WILL NO ONE RID ME OF THIS TROUBLESOME PRIEST?”
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@pondering:
Who needs Christ when you have CALVIN CALVIN CALVIN?
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@Marsha:
More like “Counting Theological Coup” than making a theological point.
“When all you have is a hammer…”
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@Ann:
“When you point at something with your finger, the dog sniffs your finger. To a dog, a finger is a finger and that is that.”
— C.S.Lewis
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Wade Burleson weighs in. Gene Clyatt signing as “squirrel” posts as well as other JD Hall pulpiteers.
http://www.wadeburleson.org/2014/08/blame-is-not-game-jd-hall-ergun-caner.html
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Kay, I read that article earlier and I have mixed feelings about it – especially since the Pulpiteers are weighing in and applauding and also those on the periphery who are in leadership positions, but have remained silent, are promoting this article. I like Wade. But I don’t think it’s wrong to say that someone’s bullying may have contributed to suicide. Think about it: if you are abused as a child,,this can lead to a host of mental and medical conditions that you probably would not have had. Who is to blame for that? The victim? Absolutely not.
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Not to mention John Carpenter.
I totally disagree with Wade about it not being bullying. I do not know where he comes off with that. It most certainly was. JD is a chronological adult. Braxton a teen. JD was trying to make him ashamed of his dad and even turn him against him. It was vile and cruel. JD was using his position as a “Man of God” to rebuke Braxton and turn him against his dad. JD was the one being “immoral”.
I think Wade has put way too much into JD’s vague “apology”. This guy goes around “calling out” people everywhere. He is a hack and has minions who pile on. This is what they do.
His bullying Braxton did not help him. But to make blanket statements it was not a cause is going too far. They have no way of knowing that, either. It is a cruel Christianity that dismisses this so quickly.
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Julie Anne and Lydia – totally agree with you.
I’m going to post there in a moment. I’m going to remind them of the blog post and audio that remained online and accessible with a search for Braxton’s name as well as JD’s recent post calling Johnny Hunt a pimp and Ergan Caner a prostitute which is only an example of their poison words and vigilante actions. I like Wade too, but the pulpiteers are using him now.
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Thank you for speaking out, Kay.
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“I like Wade too, but the pulpiteers are using him now.”
Wade is never “used”. It is more about fences, IMO. Been reading him since 2006
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Agree Lydia – but if I’m standing on the Pulpiteer side of the fence, I bet they are “using” him in their eyes. Wade is a very wise, intelligent man. I have no doubt about that.
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Kay, I think the pulpiteers are thrilled.
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JA,
“Did you see further up from Kay the comment that he is still broadcasting?”
I did…but only after I said what I said. But I was in a hurry to leave this morning, so I didn’t have time to amend.
I’ve been reading people’s comments over a JAX, too. I am just simply appalled by those who are defending JD Hall.
For a child that had much going for him, and he seemed happy, what would make him want to commit suicide? Over at Jax, they are condemning anyone who speculates that JD had anything to do with it.
Well, did Braxton’s girlfriend break up with him? That would be the only other thing that I can think of, of a happy kid killing himself. To me, there is only one conclusion. That conclusion is, JD Hall had something to do with it.
It isn’t wrong to speculate. But they are making it practically a sin.
Didn’t we all have an opinion on OJ Simpson? Of course we did. Did anyone condemn anyone for their speculation then? So why now?
Ed
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“So why now?”
The octopus tentacles of the reformed brand. I cannot begin to tell you how much the Caner hate relates to the goings on in 2006 between James White, Founders and Caner brothers over Calvinism/Non Calvinism. . Both sides guilty but, imo, Caner punished enough. They want blood. JD took up the torch. It backfired with Braxton and they are trying to shore up. JD’s behavior over the last few years has been ignored and even coddled by too many in Reformed world who are now embarrassed. With Hall, some roads lead to McArthur and Mohler.
The Reformed groups/blogs have a history of ignoring as we have seen with Mahaney and Driscoll.
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And censoring tactics are what they know and do well. Make it a sin to speculate about the obvious.
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Ed – I don’t know. If Braxton would have left a note, that would have been helpful, but he didn’t, so we can only speculate, but we do know in Dee’s article that cyber bully can lead to suicide.
Look at this:
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That is exactly what’s going on. I’ve seen Dee getting hammered about this. As soon as I get my next post on the subject done, I will likely be hammered, too. Oh well, bring it on. I don’t even care anymore.
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Oh, ya, seen some people over at JAX commenting on Dee’s Blog, too.
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“I will likely be hammered, too. Oh well, bring it on. I don’t even care anymore.”
God Bless you, JA. We have your back.
Look, to try and spin his behavior as not being bullying is the worst thing that can be done. JD is a grown up pastor. Braxton a teen who had to live out all that happened that was NOT his fault. JD tried to use him and make him out to be immoral in order to show his dad was not raising his kid well. Then he tried to drive a wedge between father and son.
for Wade to say this is not bullying makes me question his wisdom or motives.
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“…seen some people over at JAX commenting …”
I cannot even read over there anymore. Dear God, hasn’t E Caner paid a high enough price for those guys?
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It should also be pointed out that in this episode of his radio show, JD Hall allows that C.J. Mahaney of SGM “may” have engaged in coverup of child abuse, but claims that Mahaney has a “God-called” ministry and attacks SGM’s critics, including TWW: http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=52314020320
Contrast Hall’s standards for Mahaney with his standards for others.
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JA,
You can care about the wellbeing of individuals, but you can’t put that much stock into the criticism.
This cannot have helped Braxton, and I don’t see how you can call it anything other than voyeurism on the part of people who knew better. You cannot choose your parents. Arminian or Calvinist, the Word calls us to respect our parents and love them. I expect a grown adult minister to have far more scruples than a young man. Whether Hall apologized or not, it had to have added stress to what had to be an absolutely horrible situation for Braxton without the carrying on about it.
With the 2nd Gen Adult (SGA) perspective and the bounded choice that comes along with the process, I don’t think that it’s cricket to involve someone’s children, adult or otherwise.
There are legitimate questions when some of these preachers make examples of their children. I’ve been critical of Voddie Baucham’s teachings, and people have encouraged me to follow Jasmine, and I will not do it. I brought up Voddie’s double talk about no college and then college for her, but the issue was always his equivocation and how this applied to the teachings. He has a bad reputation for saying whatever is politically expedient at the time to whomever he’s addressing, and that was my only interest.
There’s also the issue of what these quiverfull evangelists will do if their wives die young and how they will manage caring for very large families without making slaves of their older girls. What advice is given to people who do not have means to hire help? That’s a question with direct bearing on the specifics of what is taught by them personally.
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Chris Rosebrough: Christian Pirate Radio, Speaker at Reformation Montana 2014 is mentioned in TWW blog post. He weighs in on his audio program dated 8/7/2014.
Audio here:
http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2014/08/biophoton-spirituality.html
Braxton Caner/JD Hall discussion at minute 7:13 – 11:17 and 36:35 – 55:50
51:35 – 55:50 transcript
…Did Braxton Caner commit suicide? Absolutely. Why? I have no idea. I don’t know why. Wha, how did it happen? I don’t know. Those details are not made known to the public or at least I haven’t been able to find the public details of what’s gone on and what happened so I don’t know what led up to it, but to somehow, for people to somehow step in and act like they know and somehow pin the blame on a man who apologized for what he believed was wrong and sinful, yeah that doesn’t make any sense. That doesn’t make any sense. I mean if anything, when I’m wronged and somebody apologizes for it, ?uhyouknow? quite frankly the feeling I have is not that I want to kill myself. Um it’s more or less along the lines of well I feel vindicated. Right?
So I think people are not, are not dealing with this properly and and uh it’s really upsetting to see Jordan’s, Jordan Hall’s name being drug through the mud in the way that it’s being drug through. It’s not, it’s not Christian. It’s not in keeping with the facts and It doesn’t even make sense in light of the fact that Jordan owned what he did, apologized for it publicly and took some time off after the event. ?And so if you know???..? to label it cyber stalking cyber bullying is is again above and beyond what happened in the exchange. And like I said, if you know you’re a 15 year old kid and somebody comes at you and you’re thinking oh that guy’s creepy and weird and what’s his problem kind of thing and then later that guy apologizes to you, that doesn’t make you want to commit suicide, it makes you feel like you’ve been vindicated. That’s generally how human nature goes.
So yeah, the people who are out there dragging Jordan Hall’s name through the mud or somehow trying to kind of in a veiled way say ‘Oh you know, Braxton Caner committed suicide because he was a victim of cyber-bullying’ wink, wink, nudge, nudge, yeah, that’s absolutely patently false, slanderous and the evidence doesn’t support it and all ya gotta do is go back and look through the timeline what happened and what was said and you’ll see what’s going on here.
So in the meantime we got a dead 15 year old kid and it’s absolutely sad and tragic. Our prayers need to go out to the Caner family. We need to be praying for them, but in the long run we need to be praying that Ergun Caner and those whom he has deceived and continues to deceive with his lies regarding his past, that he would ultimately repent. That he would repent the same way that, well, Jordan Hall repented. That he would apologize and ask for forgiveness the way Jordan Hall apologized. You see what I’m saying cause that, when that happens you know what comes into play? The blood of Christ. The forgiveness of sins. Reconciliation between brothers. That’s how things are supposed to be resolved within Christianity and it’s very sad, very sad that we haven’t seen that behavior from Ergun Caner uh regarding his past sins. Not at all, but he’s persisted in continuing to defend the lies that he’s put forward.
But Jordan Hall has shown that he has true Christian character by acknowledging that what he did was wrong and apologizing publicly and privately for for what he did. And the irony in this particular situation is the people who are trying to paint Jordan Hall out as some kind of a sick cyber bully who is responsible for the death of a 15 year old, the weird thing about this, and here’s the irony, those people who are saying these things on the internet, they’re actually guilty of the thing they are accusing Jordan Hall of doing. They have become the cyber-bullies. They are slandering him and slandering his character and not actually telling the truth about what has happened and have gone beyond the evidence. They need to repent. They need to ask for forgiveness and be forgiven for what they’ve done. That’s what this situation calls for. . .
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Kay, note how they are ignoring JD’s long history and pattern of behavior. Both Chis and Wade are doing this. Why do you think that is?
Why would Wade and Chris want to protect JD Hall’s reputation when his reputation was of cruelty before the Braxton incident?
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Could it be that Calvinists will protect their own? I know that sounds jaded, but c’mon, really?
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I know a lot of people hate Peter Lumpkins. I disagree with him a lot yet he is of good cheer about it. And I have appreciated his historical scholarship, former Calvinist that he is.
However, the bloggers who are taking on this story concerning JD Hall’s bullying of Braxton are feeling a tip of the iceberg compared to what Caner, Lumpkins and some others have dealt with for the past few years. No matter where they go or what they do. For example, Some “sincere” people will approach them and want to talk only to find out they try to frame the convo while taping it. (That was a few years ago and I hear it happened again more recently). They are trying to entrap them. The list goes on and on. The Braxton thing finally brought to light what has been going on for years and the cruelty and the lengths those folks will go to. They are much like Doug Phillips was. The sad part are all the fringe people being used by the movement who have no clue.
None of that excuses any previous behaviors. But when you stoop to such things to bring down your supposed enemy—In the Name of God—perhaps you have become as bad or worse than your supposed enemy?
Now we have well known Reformed personalities making excuses for JD Hall and his pulpiteers. And a boy is dead. A boy who was brought into the war against his dad who had nothing to do with it.
Is anyone else totally done with what passes for Christianity in the SBC and beyond? Can we ditch the gurus and stop giving them money and say, Just give me Jesus, please?
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Lydia,
Wade has posted a couple times on TWW and on his blog post. I am thinking he is trying to pave the way, open a door, should people need to seriously talk, do some soul searching and reconsider what has taken place. He seems to be aware of all of the poison and as he says “spiritual abuse” that has and is taking place. It might not be JD Hall or his pulpiteers that contact him, but people out there who have been caught up with these guys and need someone to talk to. They might contact Wade. I hope so.
As far as Chris – I don’t know him. He seems to think he is a Christian Pirate with Crew members instead of Pulpiteers. He likes to do little dramas on his show where he plays all the characters by changing voices (but you still know it’s him). He is quick to point out he is not a Baptist, but a Lutheran and he labels all the critics of JD Hall, arminians. He for sure loves Jordan Hall. It is hard to get the full impact of his statements without listening to the audio. It was unsettling to hear him tell how it is in the world of a 15 yr old.
And like I said, if you know you’re a 15 year old kid and somebody comes at you and you’re thinking oh that guy’s creepy and weird and what’s his problem kind of thing and then later that guy apologizes to you, that doesn’t make you want to commit suicide, it makes you feel like you’ve been vindicated. That’s generally how human nature goes.
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Despite what you might think, I think Wade may have done the cause against Hall a favor here. The comments by Hall’s supporters on Wade’s blog are so absurd and “out there” that they provide evidence that their group will go to any length to further their causes.
(Note: “their group”=those who still try to justify Hall’s actions as acceptable)
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Yes, really.
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Kay, thanks for the transcript. I am using some of it in my next post. Of course I got distracted once again by another post. I have 2 posts in line discussing this issue and I think this next one is going to be very revealing because the evidence speaks for itself. For people like JD Hall, bloggers don’t have to put their own personal opinions out there, their own words say it all.
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Credendum said: “Could it be that Calvinists will protect their own? I know that sounds jaded, but c’mon, really?”
I would say spiritual abusers and their supporters protect their own. There are all kinds in this conversation on both sides. Some probably have more in common with the “Calvinists” but find spiritual abuse totally repugnant. To me this is not a Calvinist/Arminian issue. Just my opinion.
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Julie Anne,
“For people like JD Hall, bloggers don’t have to put their own personal opinions out there, their own words say it all.”
So very true…it’s like hearing noisy gongs or a clanging cymbals. 😦
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I’ll tell you why I think it is in this case. When an Arminian seminarian from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary sinned grievously, and it went public, pastor Wade made mention of his Arminianism: http://www.wadeburleson.org/2012/03/time-has-come-another-reason-southern.html
But, when high-profile Calvinist J.D. Hall sinned, he seems to be getting a pass. Why? Why was the Arminian sinner highlighted for his Arminianismj (even though he repented), but the Calvinist sinner granted a free pass?
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Ok, that is a good distinction, Kay. It is spiritual abusers who protect their own and in this case, it is spiritually abusive Calvinists.
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Never in my life have I seen so many grown men act like such a bunch of juvenile delinquent, schoolyard bullies who try to portray themselves as God’s elite, but are actually just trying to hide their own insecurities. They play King of the Hill with people’s lives. They all need to grow up. They need emasculating. They are overcompensating.
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Credendum, I see your point. Someone asked Wade about that sentence in the comments and he replied, “It has nothing to do with the soteriological debate and everything to do with my poor effort at being witty. :)”
That sentence probably detracted from the issue.
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