Mark Driscoll

BREAKING: Janet Mefferd Removes Tweets and Blog Material Regarding Mark Driscoll and Alleged Plagiarism

Julie Anne

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BREAKING:  Janet Mefferd Removes Tweets and Blog Material Regarding Mark Driscoll and Alleged Plagiarism

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Ok, I just got home and something is going down with Mefferd regarding the allegations of Mark  plagiarism by Mark Driscoll in several books.  Dee of Wartburg Watch tagged me in a tweet that Mefferd removed all of her tweets and blog material related to the Driscoll/plagiarism situation.  I also received an e-mail that Mefferd was going to be saying something about this on her show today.

I found the following tweets.  The top tweet is the most recent.  As I find more information, I will update.

Screen Shot 2013-12-04 at 12.15.13 PM

My gut response is that someone is forcing her to do this and that is not sitting right with me at all.

You can follow along with the latest here:   Janet Mefferd Removes Blog Posts and Tweets Related to Mark Driscoll’s Alleged Plagiarism.  *     *     *

310 thoughts on “BREAKING: Janet Mefferd Removes Tweets and Blog Material Regarding Mark Driscoll and Alleged Plagiarism”

  1. I wanted to say something, but I will wait to hear what she says. But it isn’t sitting right with me either.

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  4. One could easily assume that Driscoll has gotten his big boy panties in a wad and threatened her with a lawsuit.

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  6. When you are in the right and the other side threatens litigation, the response has to be: “I will counter-sue for abuse of process, harassment and my attorney fees, (and in this case) as well as for the fact that you and your people set this up. Go ahead and try it.”

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  9. I just sent Julie Anne a tweet expressed how bummed out I am about this.

    Mefferd did not do anything wrong!

    Driscoll and his fans are bullies. They flamed Mefferd for weeks for merely pointing out he copied other people’s material without proper citation. That’s on Driscoll.

    I don’t care whether or not it went down in public or not. Driscoll is a public figure, and she was discussing his public materials (published books that he hypes in a very public fashion such as crashing conferences of other Christians).

    People have speculated it was all her, or Driscoll has threatened to sue her, or her boss is behind it, and that is why she removed her content.

    I did listen to most of her show yesterday. I listened to the first part of Hour 2, I think it was, but not the rest of it (the show about animal rights people). Did she make the comments about Driscoll at the end of Hour 2?

    I really, really wish Mefferd had not backed down on this.

    Someone, somewhere needs to stand up to Famous Celebrity Christian Egomaniacal Bullies such as Driscoll, and not many people (as in, especially not famous/well known with their own radio shows) are doing so.

    I did send Mefferd one tweet directly telling her I supported her during the Driscoll situation.

    I hardly ever use my ‘Daisy Flower’ Twitter account, though. I had misplaced the password for months, for one thing. I found it today and was able to log in and make a tweet or two.

    BTW, I don’t think I have the patience or stomach to sit and exchange tweets with gender comp guys, as some were doing with me on Twitter… they just quote the same 2 or 3 Bible verses and consider it a done deal. It’s very difficult to debate gender comp in a 120- letters- per- post format. I don’t have the patience for it.

    So, I blocked two gender comp guys today on my Daisy Twitter account who had sent me repeated tweets wanting to bicker with me about gender role stuff several weeks ago.

    I can’t be bothered… for one reason, I am a never-married, childless woman and gender complementarianism, which largely focuses on marriage and motherhood in regards to women, is irrelevant to me.
    (That is also one reason gender comp is un-biblical: those who push for it only care about and addresses issues pertaining to MARRIED women, or women who have children).

    I participate on other blogs and forums under other screen names where I debate people about other things. I am not up to debating every last Joe on the internet on every site I belong to. That is why I blocked the two gender comp guys on Twitter, but they will no doubt view it as some kind of victory or whatever. 🙄

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  10. *Sigh* this will only make the plagiarizers more brash and invincible. Someone needs to back Janet and her show that has some clout and is upset by this.

    Unfortunately, Driscoll is so buddy, buddy with Jones and Carson, I suspect they told her it was a back-room deal they all agreed to and that she better lay off, because no one was going to charge the plagiarizer, making her a sitting duck for charges of slander or ruining a reputation or some such nonsense.

    I suspect these twits at TGC tugged on Janet’s conscious and got all “be nice and don’t take other Christians to court/don’t slander other Christians” like, despite the fact Driscoll is very willing to drag other Christians to court when he feels wronged.

    Isn’t the surest sign of a psychopath their ability to make others feel sorry for them? Isn’t that what Driscoll has been doing all along here? He whined about Janet’s treatment of himself, never once publicly acknowledging that he needed to do a better job of plagiarism. Then, every neo-Calvinist, from every corner of the internet virtually rushed to his aide, calling for Janet-boycotts, talking about “poor, mistreated Mark” yet ignoring or downplaying plagiarism. Now, it may seem like Janet was more “unchristian” by not being nice (they never acknowledged Mark went way beyond rude back to her), but overall, between pushing someone for acknowledgement steadfastly and forcefully (it wasn’t really that bad in the end, Mark should have taken it like a man) and insulting women, gays, pacifists and liberals for a cheap laughs from their audience, who should we be more concerned about when it comes to treating others with love in Christendom?

    Mark can’t hide behind nonspecific generalities (calling “gays” or “women” this or that), he is insulting and hateful to people who don’t see things his way, and he needs to take most of his website down and apologize to over half the world’s population.

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  11. Unbelievable. I applaud her for doing what she did by calling him out. If you try to go to them personally, they ignore you. What else are we supposed to do? These people who have these huge ministries who have no accountability disgust me. They want to be in the spotlight, but can’t handle the pressure of being called on sin or questioned about anything? Maybe they shouldn’t be in ministry then.

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  12. Due to the sudden and unexpected nature of Mefferd’s mea culpa, as well as Driscoll’s immature and thoroughly repugnant personality, it is easy to jump to conclusions that Mefferd was pressured in some way to make today’s announcement and removing the posts in question.

    However, the public doesn’t, and may not ever, know why today’s events occurred. She may indeed have been pressured or threatened in some way, or she may have been offered an incentive (such as her own book deal), or she may have only been responding to the dictates of her own conscience.

    Until such time that the truth comes out, it would be wise to not:
    1. assume the worst about Mefferd’s motives;
    2. accuse Driscoll and his backers of coercing Mefferd to ‘repent’ with some form of external stimulus. (That Driscoll has done so before is, thus far, immaterial in this instance; Carson and Jones have never been accused of coercion to my knowledge.)

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  14. Overall, I agree with EBS. I know it’s hard to wait for the silt in muddy waters to settle out, but I think we need to be careful about our specul-ation as it’s already half way there to accus-ation. We shouldn’t dash over the inform-ation line to get there.

    Many of us who are survivors of spiritual abuse know how false speculations against us were planted, and even if/when completely and publicly proved untrue, there is still refut-ation that goes on potentially for years when someone runs across old info that is outright false, half-truth, or pure imagin-ation.

    It’s kind of all about the -ations and dealing with them with patience.

    Anyway, I think that regardless of the specific Mefferd + Driscoll + Tyndale issues and events, the far larger issue is still worth exploring. And that is:

    **How well do Driscoll’s and others’ Christian publishing houses check for plagiarism, deal with alleged plagiarism, deal with inadequate cit-ation of text and/or ideas?**

    There could very well be an issue industry-wide of not really checking authors for professional-level scrutiny of their work, even for a popular-level book. Just because some book is aimed at the everyday disciple, that doesn’t mean it has permission to be all sloppy and such … unless, of course, Christian publishing provides just a somewhat revised version of self-publishing which may do a cursory review but basically trusts that the submitter has not misused his/her source material and given the appearance of it being their own and therefore of original ownership.

    Maybe the best push-back is to request vigorously that all Christian publishers post their philosophy and practices regarding outright plagiarism, inadequate citation, etc. — along with what they do about allegations of authorial failure to follow the requirements and who or what department on the publishing staff to contact in order to file a complaint.

    Boycotts of a publisher’s entire inventory may not be particularly feasible. Boycott of a particular author, maybe more so. And perhaps “blogcotts” of research articles that publicize publishers who resist integrity on plagiarism, well, perhaps always that’s a possibility.

    As a research writer and published author whose research work has been “lifted and shifted” by a malignant minister and made to appear as if it were their own work, I’d certainly be ready to file such complaints and perhaps write those kinds of online documentation articles.

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  16. I don’t that Mark Taylor, president of Tyndale, has anything to do with this. He’s a very good and honorable man.

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  17. Val, good comment. But couldn’t resist how you stated this: “never once publicly acknowledging that he needed to do a better job of plagiarism.” . . . ‘a better job of plagiarism’!! Hahaha! Maybe you mean a better job of minimizing or avoiding plagiarism. 🙂

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  19. I give up on the Evangelical community. No matter what else, plagiarism was done, and it has been swept away by the author, the publishing house, and “leaders” in the church until the messenger had to read a statement of retraction and withdraw plain old evidence from the internet. And along comes “Christian” John to insert a sly hypocritical comment on a thread of one of the blogs supporting the exposure of plagiarism.

    I was worried when Tyndale did its shtick, but now the Evangelicals have driven the final nail into their own coffin. They have lost their understanding of God.

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  21. The Blasphemer hath been Put to Silence and Mortification.

    Another body thrown under the bus.

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  23. This whole situation has left me a dumbfounded. Many saw the side-by-side comparisons of the texts. Unless she used another book other than Driscoll’s to compare to the original text, many are left to assume why she apologized and deleted everything. The printed materials don’t lie, though.

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  26. Patrice, I know, right? It seems American evangelicals are in such a sad, bad, blind state.

    Too many ego-man-gelists in ego-man-gelism supported by a fanatical, fan-gelical base.

    I hadn’t heard of Swanson, DP, & half these guys. But the bad behavior isn’t surprising to me one bit. Oppression of truth & denial of rights of others is to be expected of any doctrine & religion based on authority & control. Spiritual authority & control of any person over any another person begets entitlement & superiority. Put another way, when the rights of one person are superior to another for religious reasons, personal rights WILL be violated. It’s the ultimate free-pass right? Any religion, doctrine, orthodoxy (whatever name you want to call or assign to it) which assigns one person’s rights over another’s rights IS WRONG. We need to think about kicking churches with these frameworks to the curb by running (not walking) away from them.

    Certain “select” men are not the mouthpiece of God. God has spoken through his Word (Bible) to anyone who has eyes to read & ears to hear. In addition, God continues to remind & speak to us (Holy Spirit) & by creating us with consciences that convict & steer us to do right. NO man replaces, intercedes, has authority over another’s soul or in any other spiritual way. This is what’s wrong with “egomangelism” today. For quite some time, we have been watching men with huge egos having major power trips over others. It will continue as long as the money flows in. These actions have nothing to do with Jesus.

    Where you find control a part of religion or spirituality, you will find abuse, castaways, less-thans, the used & discarded. I am absolutely disgusted. May our eyes be opened to rejecting these bad so-called spiritual frameworks. And may healing of God’s people begin and/or continue.

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  27. I am sorry that she felt she had to do this. She was spot on about Driscoll, & the merest glance at his material alongside that of others has proven that fact to the satisfaction of a good many folks.

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  28. It is obvious that Tyndale House and Mars Hill threatened the Janet Mefferd Show with a lawsuit. Somebody also probably threatened to pull funding for the show.

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  29. And why does nobody in Evangelicalism care that Driscoll is a depraved sexual pervert: http://barthsnotes.com/2009/06/27/mark-driscoll-slammed-by-baptist-press-over-sex-teaching/

    Have they all forgotten? Was 2009 that long ago? Or do they not care because Driscoll claims to be a defender of Christian orthodoxy (which he isn’t)?

    Why do evangelicals embrace this sick man as a brother in Christ? For the longest time the Resurgence website had an article entitled “Can I Perform Anal Sex on My Wife?” Only recently was it taken down. The world is laughing at this freak show.

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  30. Posted by someone on my FB page. Not sure if this is true or not. Can’t find it anywhere. Can anyone confirm this?

    “So it appears that out of the four books used to accuse Mark Driscoll of plagiarism, three of them were not charges of plagiarism but invalid citations. The fourth, the DA Carson quote was from a book for members of Mars Hill small groups and was not ever sold to the public…”

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  32. So what is an “invalid citation”? The only definitions I can find for it:
    1. a mistake made by a cop on a ticket, making it ineffective.
    2. A technical problem that sometimes appears in MS Word 2007 and 2010, in which citations disappear and are replaced with the words “Invalid Citation” or “Invalid Source Specified”.

    As conjecture, a footnote that cites the wrong source or cites the source incorrectly. Or double-speak for plagiarism.

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  34. So now we tell everyone Janet Mefferd is being strong armed and her apology cannot be genuine or that she, too, now joins the litany of people who are wrong and to boot, wrong on a matter of which she is best to judge?

    Which big machine is really rolling here?

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  36. I really wonder if it was threat of a lawsuit. My guess is that advertisers threatened to pull out. That will bring a change of heart real fast.

    I am NOT judging Mefford because I have been in something similar. You have to be prepared to LOSE IT ALL to stand up to these guys. I won’t judge her but I chose to lose a lot financially to NOT go along with what I finally came to see as evil in the seeker mega world..

    People have NO idea what they are dealing with until it is up-close and personal. Until your family is threatened with ruin. They NEVER have a paper trail and you can prove NOTHING. It is all done with that in mind. What happened always boils down to his word against hers. And it becomes a matter of popular opinion. Who is most popular. That is why you are seeing so much marginalization of Mefford right now. She does not have the platform or gravitas of Driscoll as far as his defenders. And even those who have distanced themselves from him over the elephant room are defending him like TGC. They get it. This could be them. And one does not dare question them like that. Who does Mefford think she is?

    That is why I have to disagree with Brad on this one. The truth most likely will NOT come out. I rarely saw that happen over many years of seeing people marginalized, ruined, etc. That is what brings on the speculation which I do not think is sin at all when PUBLIC figures purposely play these games. People can connect dots with past behaviors of both parties. Based upon patterns of behavior, words, teachings, the fact that anyone would believe anything Driscoll says—actually says more about that person than Driscoll. Those of us who have been following him since he was mentioned as the cussing pastor in Blue Like Jazz know he is a bully and a fraud. Building Mark’s brand off Jesus’ name. If they cannot see it, they are blind.

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  37. All reformers pay a heavy price, but if they persist, they will eventually win. It’s a long haul to win hearts and minds. And part of it is being so dedicated to the truth that you accept the abuse and keep speaking out. Eventually you will pay such a high price that good people finally take a hard look at your oppressors and throw them out. Look at Mandela and others.

    So, for this round, it’s Driscoll/Tyndale 1, Mefferd 0. But in the bigger picture, the truth is coming out. The blog posts are written and have good documentation of the alleged plagiarism, which is evident for everyone to see. The demagogues win this round, but real thinking Christians seeking the truth of Jesus Christ will eventually prevail.

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  39. @Lydia:

    I really wonder if it was threat of a lawsuit. My guess is that advertisers threatened to pull out. That will bring a change of heart real fast.

    Yet another case of Righteous Christianese Boycott.
    (Punch “Christian Boycott” into a search engine and you’ll get MILLIONS of hits.)

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  40. @Tina:

    I am so tired of bullies winning. It seems like if certain people scream loudly enough and have enough money to throw their weight around, they win every time.

    Lessons learned:
    BE A BULLY.
    BULLIES ARE WINNERS. YOU ARE A LOSER.
    HE WHO THROWS THE LOUDEST AND MOST DESTRUCTIVE TEMPER TANTRUM WINS.

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  41. Anonymous2, Here is why I disagree with you. The standard for truth, honesty and integrity has changed. Even definitions have changed.

    Now it is “sin” to question leaders. If you look at different blog threads you can pin point the YRR who accuse people of ‘breaking a commandment, bearing false witness against a brother, etc, etc. These are our pastors out there.

    The standard for evidence has changed, also. You are no longer allowed to look at patterns of behavior and connect dots. you must have irrefutable proof they agree to or you are sinning by speculating, gossip or bearing false witness. And this is coming from pastors in that movement, also. The problem is they make sure there is no real proof or they simply say you are misunderstanding what you are seeing. The entire movement is positively Orwellian.. So many young people are sucked ins to believing only these people have truth. They are believing the redefinition of words/concept. Young men indoctrinated in seminaries are going out promoting their guru whether it is Piper, Mohler, Driscoll, Mahaney. (Has anyone forgotten the exchange between Mefford and Joe Carter? Include SGM in that. Think about it, these guys have been gunning for her for a while)

    So the question is, how many people are going to continue to listen to these yrr pastors who have formed a huge coalition that is hard to dissent from?

    Looking over my shoulder at history, those movements that were the boldest usually won until there was a trail of blood behind them to long to ignore. The YRR is bold, in your face and too many people believe them because they bear a Christianese title and stick together. Also, many people are not willing to take the time to really think through what they are told/taught. And they are accepting being micromanaged by not only the government but their church leaders. Collectivism has won. And we will pay a high price for it.

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  42. Anonymous2 states:
    “All reformers pay a heavy price, but if they persist, they will eventually win. It’s a long haul to win hearts and minds.”

    No, reformers will not win.

    Matthew 16:6-12

    6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
    7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread.
    8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?
    9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
    10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
    11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
    12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

    The Doctrine of the reformers that we are to take heed and beware of.

    On a related note, the Catholics, in regards to their truth, in regards to their paying a heavy price, they state:

    Matthew 16:18
    …the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    Reformers are those opposed to Catholicism, right?

    I thank God that I am neither. I am just a lowly lowly non-denominational Christian, not related to either reformation doctrine, or Catholic doctrine. This is ya-all’s fight.

    Ed

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  43. “So now we tell everyone Janet Mefferd is being strong armed and her apology cannot be genuine or that she, too, now joins the litany of people who are wrong and to boot, wrong on a matter of which she is best to judge?”

    What was she apologizing for? For asking him about it in public or accusing him of plagiarism? I am not real clear on it. Did you listen to the original radio show where she confronted him? I am having a hard time believing she has changed her mind about his plagiarism or confronting him in public.
    And I have a hard time believing it because I have lived through the strong arm back room tactics where black is white and white is black cos “we say so and there are more of us than you” that make most have heart attacks or breakdowns. I know how it works.

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  44. lydiasellerofpurple,

    I agree with you. What exactly is she apologizing for? This is highly suspect of legal threats to her for which she may not be able to fight.

    Example:
    Many public arena’s are being sued by atheists these days, and because the public arena’s cannot afford litigation, they give in. They throw in the towel.

    Or, when people resign their position, they say that it is to spend more time with family…but that is a false reason.

    What’s really going on?

    Ed

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  45. I don’t know how many people I have spoken with who follow these ‘leaders’ and have no clue whatsoever about what is really going on. Including my former pastor. Often times I heard, well, I don’t agree with them on THAT issue, but they are still a good teacher. pastor, etc.” Seriously? People need to do some research before the start blindly following someone just because someone else says their stuff is good. Usually if you hear something seriously wrong about someone, it’s probably not the first time. I used to like Driscoll, my pastor rec’d him. But I did my own research, and found way to much that made me squirm, so I don’t listen to him. More people need to do that, and speak up about it.

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  46. I am having a hard time believing she has changed her mind about his plagiarism or confronting him in public.

    No, she didn’t change her mind about the plagiarism, her apology was about the way in which it was handled. She said she should have gone to the publishers privately and not taken it to the listening audience at ALL. I strongly disagree with the 2nd part of that. I can agree with her on taking it to the publishers private first, but if she was met with resistance and nothing came of it, I think she did have a responsibility to make it public.

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  48. Yes, JA, but got no answer. Someone else commented this:

    “Also if you read the description of the Trial book it clearly says it was co-written by Brad House, who is now a pastor elsewhere and many other elders/ staff members at Mars Hill, the book doesn’t even have Driscolls name on the cover.”

    I haven’t personally done the digging to confirm this or not. Was hoping the more aptly equipped detectives here could find out. I wasn’t given any other info on this.

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  49. Ed,

    Cool your jets. I’m not talking about reformers with a capital R.

    I’m talking about anyone who stands up against injustice (lower-case r).

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  51. A couple clarification on my earlier comment (Dec. 4, 3:32 PM). My brain was writing faster than I was thinking, and left a couple key things too vague, and also was juggling about three topics simultaneously. So, it was kind of a mess. lydiasellerofpurple in her comment this morning (Dec. 5, 6:52 AM) was right to disagree. I went back to take a look at what I’d said — because I know I’m wired like a “human MRI” to look at situations from multiple angles, and sometimes I just get stuck on one slant and lose sight of the larger contours of the thing.

    Anyway, best I can recollect, when I said that I agreed overall with EBS’s comment of Dec. 4, 2:26 PM above, the things that were most on my mind then were his statements about “the public doesn’t, and may not ever, know why today’s events occurred” and that “it would be wise not to assume the worst about Mefferd’s motives.” Then I did a bad rap riff on “-ation” words that may have been clever, but it was confusing. Sorry …
    I was also dealing with my own experiences of research material having been misappropriated publicly by a pastor, with him presenting observations and conclusions that he could never have developed on his own but made gave appearance that he did. While I was sitting right there listening. In shock. So all that was swirling in there too.

    Okay, meanwhile, lydiasellerofpurple is absolutely right on with her comment and why she disagreed with me. (Given the stuff I left out and overfocused on, today I think I would disagree with me, too.) (Actually, I do that a lot.)

    Also I do agree with her when she says in the same comment: “That is why I have to disagree with Brad on this one. The truth most likely will NOT come out. I rarely saw that happen over many years of seeing people marginalized, ruined, etc. That is what brings on the speculation which I do not think is sin at all when PUBLIC figures purposely play these games. People can connect dots with past behaviors of both parties. Based upon patterns of behavior, words, teachings, the fact that anyone would believe anything Driscoll says—actually says more about that person than Driscoll. Those of us who have been following him since he was mentioned as the cussing pastor in Blue Like Jazz know he is a bully and a fraud. Building Mark’s brand off Jesus’ name. If they cannot see it, they are blind.”

    The survivor community is like crowd-sourced investigative reporting. Different people contribute to a larger examination of what’s happening, shining light into the darkness, figuring out the patterns — for individual malignant ministers, for toxic organizations and movements, etc. Think of how much we know *as a community* about the patterns that have popped up in even the last week, and what it takes to discern it —

    * Various kinds of real, fake, and forced apologies.
    * Various kinds of real, fake, and forced resignations and/or supposed statements of repentance.
    * Mysterious firings and sudden disappearances of celebrity Christians and/or members of their back-up teams (co-pastors, elders, employees, etc.)
    * Pressure by celebrity Christians in public roles of “leadership” to shut people up or shut organizations down.

    Nothing new under the sun, but certainly we still need communal lighthouses to shine into the darkness in what is supposed to be the Church.

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  52. This may be worth noting. I went to a large bibliography of books on recovery from spiritual abuse, and couldn’t find any that Tyndale House has published. It wasn’t an exhaustive bibliography, but If that observation is accurate, it kind of makes me wonder why the gap for Tyndale — and wonder what other christian publishers have not produced something to help serve our community — if they happen to publish books on personal growth for Christians, and church health, and topics like that.

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  53. Hey, Anon2…is that like the Jehovah’s Witnesses little “g” god, vs. the big “G” God? I’m not following your “R” vs. “r” thing. Help me out here, buddy!!!

    Ed

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  54. Found this on brainyquote & think it applies to this situation:

    “I keep telling myself to calm down, to take less of an interest in things and not to get so excited, but I still care a lot about liberty, freedom of speech and expression, and fairness in journalism.” Kate Adie

    It seems egomangelicals make a habit of taking action to suppress freedom of speech, just sayin. Their declared rule is that one does not have freedom of speech in public (AKA confront in private), even though their source of income is derived from speaking on a VERY public platform. Driscoll seems to like confronting people in public & has no problem creating public controversy with others, IMO. Did Driscoll contact John Mac to resolve his free book dispensing confiscation snafu at Strange Fire before tweeting? I smell a double standard. No matter if Janet corrects in private or public, the problem is still there. The ball is still in his court.

    The MO seems to be an intentional stifling, shifting or refocusing away from the problem to Janet now being the problem. Suppression of freedom of speech, for religious reasons, IMO. No matter what, the ball is still in his court.

    Bottom line, if someone has a VERY public platform & loves right, they will want to use that VERY public platform to make things right. Is that you, Driscoll? What would Jesus want you to do, Driscoll?

    What has Driscoll’s response been so far?

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  55. After reading this I was going to tip-toe over to an article I had read about this on Christianity Today but I can’t because the article is gone.

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  56. Justin –

    An article at Christianity Today is gone?! Is there a Christian publishing mafia out there?

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  57. Announcement:

    Although you all know me as a ranting redhead and I’m not afraid to go after spiritual bullies, this blog’s first purpose is defending and protecting. It is in light of the blog’s first goal, that I needed to remove some comments, tweets, and related responses. This is unprecedented for me and was a difficult decision to make.

    I am unable to discuss this any further and will be moderating carefully to remove related comments. I am absolutely fine. Thanks for the e-mails checking on me. 🙂

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  58. Ok. I do trust that you will do what’s best. You certainly aren’t someone who runs merely from controversy.

    But I’m angry and sad about the extent of reach.

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  60. Gee. For the first time in months I was close to breaking forth in tongues– only not of the Holy Ghost type.
    —–Seething——

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  62. BTDT, I can certainly relate to your comment. Well put.

    These egomangalists are right about one thing. There IS a war going & there is plenty of suffering. However, it’s not coming from outside, it’s coming within.

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  63. Posted publicly by Janey on TWW
    http://thewartburgwatch.com/2013/12/05/important-cross-conference-please-take-down-this-john-piper-video-pronto/#comment-122563:

    List of the Mark Driscoll writings that (allegedly, for the attorneys) contain plagiarized material are:

    • A Call to Resurgence – published by Tyndale
    • Trial: 8 Witness from 1 & 2 Peter – Published by Mars Hill

    Less obvious, but still problematic are —

    • Real Marriage – Published by Thomas Nelson
    • Death by Love – Published by Crossway
    • Who Do You Think You Are? – Published by Thomas Nelson

    Just in case the blog posts that pointed these out suddenly disappear, here are screen captures. (Everyone needs to get Evernote and Evernote Clipper, they are FREE).

    https://www.evernote.com/shard/s302/sh/de64859c-ec54-492b-82a2-9ddb72057c6b/4711549251cc9c9234c968b040c88413

    https://www.evernote.com/shard/s302/sh/15012545-4a91-4cdd-9157-df720e9dd948/b99554ba19299f1ceb6be3ce1ae89ff8

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  67. Pingback: Ingrid Schlueter Resigns From Janet Mefferd Show Over Mark Driscoll Plagiarism Controversy

  68. Microsoft OneNote also is useful to capture & store screen clips.

    To be clear, I’m not seething at JA or Janet Mefferd. It’s the egomangelists & their actions that I have contempt for. May they open their eyes before falling off cliffs of their own making.

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  69. http://www.epm.org/resources/2002/Jan/01/scandal-evangelical-dishonesty/

    This article was written by Randy Alcorn, a well-known author within the reformed community. It’s about ghost writing but the truths Randy mentions certainly apply to intellectual property (& the wrong of plagiarism).

    I wonder what Randy Alcorn would say about plagiarism. I would think it would be along the same lines. Will he speak up or be silent?

    Here’s some of what Randy points out about ghost writing:

    “We’re so used to being lied to, and so prone to self-deceit, it’s hard to discern what’s true and what’s not.
    As followers of Christ, we are to be different. We’re to walk in the truth (3 John 3), love the truth, and believe the truth (2 Thess. 2:10,12). We are to speak the truth, in contrast to “the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming” (Eph. 4:14). We’re to speak the truth “in love” (Eph. 4:32).
    Truth is far more than a moral guide. Jesus declared, “I am the way, the truth and the life; no man comes to the Father but by Me” (John 14:6). He didn’t say He would show the truth or teach the truth or model the truth. He said He is the truth—Truth personified. He’s the source of all truth, the embodiment of truth, and therefore the reference point for evaluating all truth claims. Jesus came full of grace and truth (John 1:14). He takes the truth personally, because it’s part of who He is….

    No matter how we rationalize it, all deception within the evangelical community dishonors Christ, and serves the devil’s agenda. We need to identify deception, repent of it, and embrace the truth of Christ which will set us free to represent Him accurately to a world sick of being lied to (John 8:32).”

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  71. When I listened to Janet’s apology, I didn’t get the impression that it was something she wanted to do.

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  72. Nicholas, i agree with what you posted and Janet should be warned about BJU.
    My parents both graduated from BJU, but I had NO desire to go to such a legalistic school. My mom was furious when a while back BJU supported Ian Paisley (who got an honorary degree from them) who was part of the paramilitary groups of protestants against Catholics from Ireland- basically a preacher with a loud mouth.
    I have no fondness for fundamental churches that use control to change the hearts of individuals. I have been in these types of churches most of my childhood.

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  74. And I should clarify – Chris is just offering the opinion of experience. But we all know how the secular game is played and we see the exact same game played in our abusive churches, para church organizations, etc etc. It’s no stretch to figure out what happened here if you have half an ounce of common sense.

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  75. I agree with Attorney – but I would say that the whole confidentiality idea about these things is hogwash. The media should frankly be more transparent. Who contacted who for the interview, so that we know which party is promoting itself (not always a bad thing to do) and where the interests of each party lie.

    The whole system is so corrupt, and frankly the confidentiality is what allows it to go on. Everyone lives in fear of retribution if they just make one misstep or do their jobs and some friend of a friend of the network doesn’t like it. It’s a total sham. You expect that from the world, but the idea that Christians do this frankly just tells me that most of them aren’t even Christians at all.

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  76. There’s a 1-star comment on Amazon about Driscoll’s book Call to Resurgence dated 11-22-2013. Someone has replied and defended Driscoll.

    If someone has an Amazon account, maybe another reply should be added, something like this:

    A side-by-side comparison of Mark Driscoll’s “Call to Resurgence” and “Gospel Truth/Pagan Lies” by Peter Jones is available in many places. You can make your own decision.

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  77. It may not go through, but I left a one-star review citing the alleged plagiarism of Driscoll from Jones. Thanks for all you do

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  78. It did go through! Check it out at Amazon Books! It is under my “real” name (Debbie), not my facebook name. Hope I am not assigned to Hell now they know my name! 🙂

    JA note: here’s the direct link. PS: Ann, they have far more on me than you. And I’m only over the Cascade Mountains from Driscoll Country. If I go missing . . . . .

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  82. Here are the links to the PDFs that show a side-by-side comparison of texts:

    Call to Resurgence by Mark Driscoll (Tyndale) vs. Gospel Truth/Pagan Lies: Can You Tell the Difference? by Peter Jones (
    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwAPFUv6LWeMZ0JnaEtoSDJVeEE/edit

    Trial: 8 Witnesses From 1 & 2 Peter,” by Mark Driscoll (Mars Hill) vs. New Bible Commentary by D. A. Carson (InterVarsity Press)
    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwAPFUv6LWeMdjJsWGQwcXdVZzQ/edit

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  84. J.A. You might want to send a tweet to Glen Beck about Mark’s plagiarism.

    Pastor Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, Wa., is well-known for not mincing words when it comes to sharing the gospel. On the Glenn Beck Program Wednesday, the author of “A Call to Resurgence: Will Christianity Have a Funeral or a Future?” singled out one audience in…

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/12/04/fiery-pastor-doesnt-mince-words-on-what-young-men-today-need-to-hear-stop-smiling-because-youre-the-joke/

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  85. Pingback: Janet Mefferd Removes Plagiarism-Related Driscoll Material, Senior Producer Resigns | Thinking Out Loud

  87. I doubt very seriously Amazon will allow the comment to stand. Especially since Mefford has removed all traces of her accusations.

    I can remember when stacy McDonald and Jenny Chancey had a bunch of negative reviews of their book “Passionate Housewives” removed from Amazon. all they had to do was complain. Quite simple, actually. That is why I rarely trust the review section. And a comment alledging plagurism is a whole other matter.

    You really think publishers wont side with Driscoll? It IS a machine out there. What is happening is that serious believers are getting out of the corrupt institutions and off the machine roller coaster. They have had enough of the evil masquerading as good. And most of it is corrupt. It is just that many won’t admit it.

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  88. Greetings in the Lord,

    As one who wishes to present objective news from a Christian perspective, but not a full-time writer, I thought this news worthy enough to publish. It was approved news-worthy by a secular news company and will be given google news priority. Relevant internet archival evidence was used for any future research.

    Examiner.com:
    Janet Mefferd Show apologizes, removes alleged plagiarism proof against Driscoll
    http://www.examiner.com/article/janet-mefferd-show-apologizes-removes-alleged-plagiarism-proof-against-driscoll?cid=db_articles

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  92. Stop calling him a pastor. They can call themselves whatever they want, and their “ministries” and “churches” and “prophecies” whatsoever they please. Christians do not have to abide, or let the wolves frame the vocabulary for public discourse. Why have Christians in another time refused to acknowledge “the genius of Caesar”? So that in thanksgiving I would acknowledge their worthy and immortal example, both by praising the genius of these “ministers”, and forbearing to warn the sheep, in terms at once clear and unambiguous and firm, to watch out for such “ministers” going back and forth in the world, and up and down in it”?

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  93. Julie Anne,
    Keep up the good work. You, Deb, and Dee provide a much needed ministry in these most troubling days. Guys like Driscoll think they have hijacked the church; they haven’t. They resent people like Janet, you, and many more because we think for ourselves. I hope you, Deb, Dee and others who seek truth in these matters will not grow weary nor fearful. Many stand with you. Have a great weekend!

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  95. lydiasellerofpurple
    December 5, 2013 @ 8:11 AM

    “So now we tell everyone Janet Mefferd is being strong armed and her apology cannot be genuine or that she, too, now joins the litany of people who are wrong and to boot, wrong on a matter of which she is best to judge?”

    What was she apologizing for? For asking him about it in public or accusing him of plagiarism? I am not real clear on it. Did you listen to the original radio show where she confronted him? I am having a hard time believing she has changed her mind about his plagiarism or confronting him in public.
    And I have a hard time believing it because I have lived through the strong arm back room tactics where black is white and white is black cos “we say so and there are more of us than you” that make most have heart attacks or breakdowns. I know how it works.

    lydia,

    I have no doubt you are telling the truth about living through strong armed tactics. I have been made aware of some of that. May God’s grace continue to abound with respect to the ill-treatment and hostility toward you. However, in general and not toward you and to answer your question, it is one thing to suspect something and another to voice that suspicion outright, followed by additional assertions.

    And this is just what many of those who are attaching themselves to the Janet Mefferd situation have done, not all of them but by far, the majority I have read who support her. That is inappropriate and unacceptable for believers.

    Proverbs 18:13:
    If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame.

    They simply do not know the enough facts and must accept her apology on face value. This includes accepting as her view that she should have approached them (Driscoll and Tyndale) in private and no one has the right to assign to Mefferd motives of being forced or strong armed if they do not have the facts to back it up. That is called speculation, not fact or truth. One might suspect it but those saying this or its equivalent should not.

    Though I believe Carl Trueman to be a contradiction in words and actions at times with regard to his holding hands with TGC and T4G, his blog has a recent article many have recommended and so do I that goes about as far as one can in using the event as a vehicle to deal with a more general consideration on the matter of free press. However, he in no way assumes or intimates or intends to communicate that Mefferd’s apology is insincere or forced or that she is a victim of any such thing. He doesn’t know and so he wisely does not speculate.

    I do not suggest she changed her mind about the concerns of plagiarism but her inconsiderate method of confronting him about it. And this is not my opinion but hers. And I trust her integrity on the matter. I believe if her conscience were forced to be violated, she would not do so. And even if I am naive and the worse thing happened behind closed doors, I am still left with only one option with regard to voicing my view which is that I have no other evidence and speculation is not accepted by God as an appropriate substitute.

    Please let me further this by including something else Janet Mefferd said that seems to be being conveniently ignored by many. She regretted that it became a viral situation and the subsequent dissension which has gone on. Her wish is that it didn’t and wouldn’t.

    Is anyone listening to this part of Janet Mefferd’s apology and request or is she just going to selectively be listened to and respected?

    I have sensed a sort of feeding frenzy and watched it at another blog, at least in my view. It is unbecoming. I appreciate the moderation I have observed here thus far, btw.

    I certainly do not like abuse nor strong arming people and if anything untoward occurred, my prayer to God is that will come out as is best but in the mean time I may not assume nor publicly suggest such unless I have convincing evidence in hand. On the other hand, I am also remind that love covers a multitude of sin.

    That does not mean excusing it, it means every single time someone we do not like makes an error, mistake, sin or however you wish to call it, we go rushing in to expose their transgression. I do believe their are battles to choose for the welfare of the body of Christ.

    Peace of the Lord.

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  96. JA, Thank you for your encouragement. Now there are more one-starred reviews of Driscoll’s book on Amazon. We do have a voice. Anyone who is disgusted with this situation, please go to the review section of Driscoll’s book and voice your opinion about Driscoll’s alleged plagiarism. It has a wide audience and can effect the book’s “bottom line”, money!! Wishes for a great weekend for all! Ann

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  97. I do not suggest she changed her mind about the concerns of plagiarism but her inconsiderate method of confronting him about it. And this is not my opinion but hers. And I trust her integrity on the matter.

    and

    Please let me further this by including something else Janet Mefferd said that seems to be being conveniently ignored by many. She regretted that it became a viral situation and the subsequent dissension which has gone on. Her wish is that it didn’t and wouldn’t.

    I agree with all of the above. Thanks for the thoughtful comment, Alex. I do not see her at all changing her opinion about the plagiarism aspect. I wish, however, that she would have left the documentation online because that was not related to the way in which she interviewed him or notifying the publisher first, etc.

    Another point is – – let’s say she did go to the publisher first and the publisher gave a non-response. Then what? I wonder what she would have done then?

    Regardless, the information is out and now it will be very revealing to see how the publisher takes care of this situation, how Driscoll responds to it, etc. Haven’t heard too much from those folks.

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  98. I printed out the two PDFs. I strong recommend we all do this.

    PDF #1:
    Re: Comparing Driscoll’s writing in Call to Resurgence with Peter Jones’s Gospel Truth Pagan Lies. Even though I am not an attorney, I don’t see any duplication of entire sentences. If this is the only questionable section, then I agree with Tyndale’s assessment: There’s no plagiarism here, time to move on.

    PDF #2:
    In my opinion, Mark Driscoll has made a clear duplication of entire sentences from D.A. Carson’s New Bible Commentary in his book, Trial: 8 Witnesses From 1&2 Peter published by Mars Hill. To me, this seems like plagiarism.

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  99. Pingback: Mark Driscoll plagiarism debate twists and turns | Bene Diction Blogs On

  100. @ Anon2 … Thank you for the suggestion. I posted your suggestion as comment at Amazon.com.

    “A side-by-side comparison of Mark Driscoll’s “Call to Resurgence” and “Gospel Truth/Pagan Lies” by Peter Jones is available in many places. You can make your own decision.”

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  101. Thx Alex, perhaps we should consult you first on choosing our battles. I don’t know so was surprised you seem to know my past experiences.

    The thing about Mefford is suspicious as she did not stop with the one book but posted about other plagurism. Now it is all gone. So you think it is wrong to speculate about it. Thx. Your opinion is noted by me. And ignored. I don’t think Mefford is so naive as to have not thought thru what she did in that interview. I do think she might have been naive concerning the push back from the evangelical machine. The power is daunting.

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