Comments Closed and Removed at The Cripplegate

Pastor Eric Davis of The Cornerstone Church (WY) Decides to Remove Two Comments from Women and Closes Further Commenting

-by Kathi

Thanks to Boston Lady, I looked up a blog post that was linked in a comment on this blog’s previous post. Eric Davis wrote, “Reasons We Miss Church (But May Not Need To)” which was posted on The Cripplegate.

This post discusses all of the wrong reasons why someone might miss church. They include:

  1. “There is no command that says I need to go to church every Sunday.”
  2. “There aren’t any good churches in my area.”
  3. “Family/friends are in from out of town.”
  4. “The preacher/teacher I like is not preaching/teaching.”
  5. “I can watch the/another gathering online, or listen to a message online.”
  6. “Recent birth of a child.”
  7. “Gatherings are too long.”
  8. “It conflicts with the kids’/family’s schedule/sleep/sports/stuff.”
  9. “Church is far away.”
  10. “I work during the church gatherings.”
  11. “I am traveling.”
  12. “Some hard things have happened and I need space.”
  13. “I’m tired.”
  14. “The church isn’t a location or an event, but people, so I don’t need to be there.”
  15. “My spouse/significant other/roommate is staying home so I will too.”
  16. “I know all of these reasons, but you just don’t understand my situation.”

As noted by Boston Lady, the ever eloquent A. Amos Love had left some comments on there, so I decided to chime in as well.

screenshot-2017-01-07-at-9-11-16-pmThen I asked Julie Anne if she had seen it and she decided to comment too (her tweet came later after learning her comment was removed):


A little bit later in the night I received a text from Julie Anne asking if I knew what happened to the post. Eric Davis decided that enough “robust discussion” had taken place and closed the comments. He also decided to delete my comment as well as Julie Anne’s (noted by the “Removed” sign in our screen shot comment).


When I left my comment, I noticed that the previous one had been made a day earlier. Why all of a sudden are comments closed and two are deleted? I know I’m risking my attitude being questioned when I ask this, but was it because two women were challenging the authority of a pastor and elders over the congregants? Was it because we are outside of this congregation and asking questions? Lord knows if anyone within the congregation is willing/able to ask questions. If we had left these comments with male pseudonyms would they have been allowed to stay and perhaps had some discussion to follow? Did we step on authoritarian pastor’s toes and question why the church needs to have so much control over people’s lives?

When I first read this post it screamed 9Marks to me, and by golly they are affiliated with 9Marks. Then I went and read the church by-laws and I was left concerned about how much control this church has over its members. You can be sure that there will be more to discuss later. That was a valiant attempt at trying to leave us out of the conversation, Eric Davis.

Oh, and comments will remain on.

171 comments on “Comments Closed and Removed at The Cripplegate

  1. Avid Reader

    And becuase, In the Bible…
    I can NOT find ”The Fold Ministry Monster.”

    I started my own fictious ministry… To confound the special ones… 🙂

    ”The Seven Fold Ministry,” (God really loves me.) 🙂

    And, I invite the Five… errr… four fold. To join the Seven Fold

    Yeah – ”The Seven Fold Ministry,” We are TWO folds higher… 🙂

    Kings. 2. Priests. 3. Brides. 4. Servants.
    Sons. 6. Disciples. 7. Ambassadors.

    1, 2 – Kings and Priests
    And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father;
    Revelations 1:6

    And hast made us unto our God kings and priests…
    Revelations 5:10

    3 – Brides
    For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD* of hosts is his name;
    Isaiah 54:5

    … Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife.
    Revelations 21:9

    4 – Servants
    If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am,
    there shall also my servant be:
    John 12:26

    And on my servants and on my handmaidens
    I will pour out in those days of my Spirit;
    Acts 2:18

    5 – Sons
    But as many as received him,
    to them gave he power to become the sons of God,
    John 1:12

    And because **ye are sons,*
    God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts…
    Galations 4:6

    6 – Disciples
    Then said Jesus unto his disciples,
    If any man will come after me, let him deny himself…
    Matthew 16:24

    John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified,
    that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

    7 – Ambassadors
    Now then we are ambassadors for Christ…
    2nd Corinthians 5:20

    And, since an Ambassodor is – The highest – diplomatic representation
    that “ONE” soverign power – sends to another…

    And Christ is the highest soverign power…

    In the body of Christ – NO one is higher than an “Ambassodor for Christ.” 😉

    Yeah – ”The Seven Fold Ministry,” We are TWO folds higher… 🙂


  2. Amos,

    At your request, we’ll review Ephesians 4:11-15(NIV).

    “So CHRIST HIMSELF gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.”

    “Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ.”

    As we discussed earlier—here the work of the ministry is defined as
    1) equip the saints
    2) build up the church
    3) help believers mature into the fullness of Christ
    4) help believers not be easily deceived
    5) help believers become more like Christ
    (see verse 15 in ERV “We will grow to be like Christ in every way.”)

    Barbara Roberts is a great example of someone ministering with a strong teaching gift. If you’ve ever had a chance to watch some of her videos, she has some really powerful insights into understanding Judges 19-20. In all the years I’ve heard other preachers try to understand that passage and completely miss the whole point—she’s the only person I’ve heard explain that in a way that made sense in light of the whole Bible. Then as we’ve already discussed, Jeff Crippen has the pastor calling. TWTBC has the gift of administration. I admire how all three can work together without any one of them feeling threatened by the other’s calling. They do the work of the ministry without worrying about who is submitting to whom.

    I don’t see anything in Ephesians 4:11-15 about submission. These ministry callings are work.

    Now if you don’t like the term five fold ministry—how would you prefer to describe these five callings?


    I agree with you on how Rev 1:6 says we are all called to be priests. God is seeking those who will worship Him in spirit and truth. We are all called to worship the Lord, offering the sacrifice of our lives to Him.

    However, we know the Bible doesn’t contradict itself. So Rev 1:6 doesn’t obliterate Ephesians 4:11-15 and all the other verses about ministry callings.

    2Cor 5:20 is a great verse about us all being ambassadors for Christ. Yes, we are all called to share the Gospel in our personal circle of influence. But our personal responsibility doesn’t eliminate everyone else’s personal responsibility to develop the gift that God gave them.

    Now this conversation is starting to feel like we’re moving in circles. If we keep going, we’re both going to have to write books to fully analyze all the different parts of this topic.

    Personally, I don’t feel like taking the time to write a full length book on tithing.

    If I’m going to devote that much time to research and writing, I’d much rather write true stories about people walking with God, fulfilling the call of God in different ways.

    I’ve found so many encouraging stories like that, I’d much rather write something that would strengthen the body of Christ.


  3. I hope people know that one can disagree with scripture interpretations like the tithe and “five fold” without mapping them to specific people helping victims. I find that tactic of argumentum repulsive and unfair. It is meant to pit people against one another and is below the belt. I will sign out Avid Reader.


  4. In referring to Ephesians 4:11 as a premise for holding titles within the church, resulting in the ‘pastorate system.’ Would it not be equally applicable to duly note that everyone thus, should have a “TITLE” according to that verse? So then, we should be seeing “Teacher Joe” or perhaps “Apostle Denise” or “Prophet Henry” or “Prophetess Valerie,” or how about “Elder Bob” or “Evangelist Linda” …….as titled veterans of ‘the church’ as we know it.

    Why is only “the pastor” given a special title before his name, and not the others? It is quite baffling that a person needs a title to show thyself approved, when in fact the only One Who rightfully owns ‘The Title,’ is in fact, Jesus. Or how about these titles…reverend, pope, bishop, cardinal, church board president, counsel member, etc.

    So what ‘titles’ does your average every day believer possess? Personally, I love the “child of God” title which gives me great comfort and peace.


  5. Lydia,

    I’m simply stunned at your words.

    This is a friendly discussion. We are all sharing our thoughts. No one is trying to pit anyone against each other.

    Amos and I were just sharing different opinions with total respect for each other’s point of view.

    I’m shocked that you would feel that was “below the belt.”

    That’s really harsh, Lydia.


  6. Katy,

    It’s not about titles, its about giftings.

    All I want is to see each believer develop the gift of God inside of them.


  7. Avid Reader
    I have lots of Questions. And Doubts. When You write…

    1 – “The sovereignty of God has given out
    ”the pastoral gift” to specific people.”

    2 – “…ministering with ”a strong teaching gift.”

    In the Bible, I can NOT find ”pastoral gift.” Or, ”teaching gift.”

    If these two thoughts are accurate?
    “Specific people,” have ”the pastoral gift?”
    “Specific people,” have ”a teaching gift?”

    Are you saying? Thinking? Believing?
    ALL pastors are ”the gift?” ALL pastors have ”a teaching gift?”

    How accurate do they have to be? How many errors are they allowed?
    Before these pastors are considered a “False Teacher?”

    1 – Is a Pentecostal Pastor “this gift?” to the church?
    Teaching Continuationism? tongues, healing, gifts of the Spirit?

    1 – Or, is a Fundamentalist Pastor “this gift?” to the church?
    Teaching Cessationaism? tongues, healing, gifts of the Spirit? Are ceased?

    Which pastor is “this Gift from God?” – How do we Know?
    Which pastor has ”a teaching gift?”” Which pastor can I believe?

    2 – Is a Reformed Pastor “this gift?” Teaching Calvinism?
    2 – Or, is the Dutch Reformed Pastor “this gift?” Teaching Arminianism?

    Which pastor is “this Gift from God?” – How do we Know?
    Which pastor has ”a teaching gift?”” Which pastor can I believe?

    3 – Is a Lutheran Pastor “this gift?” Teaching infant baptism?
    3 – Or, is a Baptist Pastor “this gift?” Teaching believer baptism?

    Which pastor is “this Gift from God?” – How do we Know?
    Which pastor has ”a teaching gift?”” Which pastor can I believe?

    You get the drift, Lot’s of pastors. Lot’s of different teaching.
    Lot’s of Error…

    In the Bible? Have you ever noticed?
    NOT one of ”His Disciples” ever took the ”Title” pastor?
    Or shepherd? Or leader? Or reverend?

    NOT one of ”His Disciples” was ever Hired or Fired as a pastor?
    Or shepherd? Or leader? Or reverend?

    NOT one of ”His Disciples” ever became a…
    Paid, Professional, Pastor, in a Pulpit, Preaching, to People in Pews?

    What did “His Disciples” know 2000 years ago???
    That those who mis-appropriate the “Title” pastor – Miss Today?


  8. “That’s really harsh, Lydia.”

    So is the constant use of non sequiters mapping people we admire for their victim support work to bolster YOUR interpretation. As if disagreeing meant their efforts are not valued. You dropped the tithe pretty quickly. Not believing in a tithe had nothing to do with anyone’s view of Jeff Crippen. To even suggest such a thing was bizarre to me. Same with your mapping of your “five fold” characteristics to Barbara Roberts and her work for victims. I kept thinking you would actually deal with the interpretative method and not just use personal stories or repeat scripture we all know. But you did not.

    This strategy is used all the time by comps to ignore interpretive method. It is playing offense because the strategy is meant to put the other party on defense. I want the best for Barbara and Jeff YET I disagree with your interpretations.


  9. Lydia,

    Now I’m really confused by your words.

    I would hope that in this discussion we could both share from our heart without allowing the discussion to descend into personal attacks.


  10. Amos,

    I wish you and I were neighbors. We would have so many fascinating discussions together over coffee.

    Thank you for a fascinating discussion.

    I would love to answer the questions you asked me, but since this discussion seems to be upsetting Lydia—maybe it would be better to draw this to a close and move on.


  11. Avid, my view is you brought in the “personal” first thing by using Jeff Crippen instead of simply debating the “tithe” system.


  12. Lydia,

    Throughout this discussion I’ve tried to tread carefully here out of respect for everyone’s feelings. As the tension rises in a debate I’m always willing to step away before things become too inflamed. Several times I’ve volunteered to move on from this topic.

    I’ve been thinking long and hard about what you’ve said here. I’m trying to understand where you are coming from. I would hope that we could keep this discussion on a level playing field with total respect for each other.

    Now I’m starting to realize that you’re upset at me just for having a different perspective. You’re angry at me for sharing thoughts just because you disagree with those thoughts. Doesn’t discussion involve some sort of a difference of opinion?

    This whole discussion started when someone made a personal attack on all pastors—saying that any pastor who collects tithes is a con artist. That’s what a personal attack is. All I did was write the rebuttal argument defending the pastoral gift. That’s NOT a personal attack.

    At this point, I’m realizing that you’re going to continue getting upset at me for having a different perspective. That’s totally fine. Now I’m going to answer Amos’ questions.


  13. Hi Amos,

    You have a lot of food for thought in those questions.

    Let’s see:

    Q1: “In the Bible, I can NOT find ”pastoral gift.” Or, ”teaching gift.””

    Well, the word “gift” in this discussion helps distinguish that this is work not thrones.
    We’ve studied Eph 4:11

    “So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people.”

    There’s five different types in the list—that would imply that teaching and pastoring are different gifts. Of course, someone might move in more than one gift.

    Q2: “Have you ever noticed?
    NOT one of ”His Disciples” ever took the ”Title” pastor?
    Or shepherd? Or leader? Or reverend?”

    That’s true. But Jesus still picked people to go out full time and minister. And according to Eph 4:11—Jesus is still choosing who receives these gifts today.

    Q3: “Are you saying?….ALL pastors are ”the gift?” ALL pastors have ”a teaching gift?”

    Nope. Jesus warned us about the “hirelings” (John 10:12-14) who want the pastor’s salary and position without doing the work of the ministry. So we are supposed to “judge them by their fruits.” You can tell who has the pastor gift because whether or not they are on staff at a church they will be going out to minister to hurting people. They will be trying to heal wounds. (Eze 34)

    God gives out many other gifts besides pastors/teachers/etc

    “To one person the Spirit gives the ability to give wise advice; to another the same Spirit gives a message of special knowledge.”

    “The same Spirit gives great faith to another, and to someone else the one Spirit gives the gift of healing. He gives one person the power to perform miracles, and another the ability to prophesy.”

    “He gives someone else the ability to discern whether a message is from the Spirit of God or from another spirit. Still another person is given the ability to speak in unknown languages, while another is given the ability to interpret what is being said.”

    “It is the one and only Spirit who distributes all these gifts. He alone decides which gift each person should have.”
    1Cor 12:8-11 (NLT)

    Of course, we all remember the Parable of the Three Servants that warns about the servant who was given a gift by God but buried it in the ground. We have a choice whether to develop our gift or bury it.

    While we’re on this subject, I was just reading something about a lady who had a vision where she was talking with Jesus.

    In her own words she described,
    “The room was like a large warehouse. Jesus showed me all kinds of cars that Satan had stolen. Then He showed me clothing that had been stolen. And accessories. And shoes. All stolen.

    Jesus stopped in front of the shoes and said, “What do you think these are, Katherine?”

    “I don’t know, Lord, unless You give me the understanding.”

    “He said, “These are the “shoes” of My people, of prophets and apostles, the fivefold ministry. They have stopped walking for Me; they have stopped talking for me. They have laid down and wept; they have given up.”

    “Tell My people not to give up but to keep on walking. Don’t let their shoes be stolen by Satan. Don’t let Satan block them and knock them down. If he does, they must get up and fight him with My Word. I gave My Word to set the captive free.”
    (from the book satan’s deceptions by Mary Katherine Baxter).

    Q4: “Is a Pentecostal Pastor “this gift?” to the church? Or Is a Reformed Pastor “this gift?””

    Well, there’s a lot of different parts of the body of Christ. Some believe in free will. Some believe in “reformed theology” (sovereignty of God). My opinion is that we can all learn from each other. Us in the “free will” group need to still understand the “sovereignty of God” and the “sovereignty of God” people need to understand free will and personal responsibility. There’s a balance.

    Q5: “How accurate do they have to be? How many errors are they allowed?
    Before these pastors are considered a “False Teacher?”

    “For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.”
    Hebrews 4:12 (NIV)

    “Your word is a lamp for my feet and a light for my path.”
    Psalm 119:105 (GW)

    I would hope that we all choose to build our lives on the words of Christ, using Scripture as our guide to light our pathway and expose the wolves in the flock. I would hope that we are all like the Bereans who tested everything they heard according to Scripture.


  14. “Now I’m starting to realize that you’re upset at me just for having a different perspective. You’re angry at me for sharing thoughts just because you disagree with those thoughts. ”

    Not at all. I would invite a discussion on tithe vs offering. What I object to is mapping your interpretation of the tithe to Jeff Crippen and so on. It is a non sequitur. It does not follow that we don’t want Jeff’s ministry to prosper because we don’t see a tithe system in the NT. That is what you presented to support a tithe system.

    “Doesn’t discussion involve some sort of a difference of opinion?”

    Of course. I also have a different opinion about such non sequiters that involve people not in the discussion.


  15. Avid Reader

    Today I have a different take on Eph 4:11…
    And what many call ”The Five Fold Ministry” and “Gifts.”
    Since escaping the bondage of “Today’s Corrupt Religious System.”

    The “poimen” in Eph 4:11, and the NT, are nothing like today’s
    Paid, Professional, Pastors, in Pulpits, Preaching, to People in Pews.

    My pastors told me I had these ”Gifts.” To pastor. To teach… 😦
    And, I was part of “The Five Fold Ministry” this ”Gift” to the church.
    Look at me… I’m a special one… My pastors are brilliant…

    It’s was quite humbling when Jesus showed me I was believing a lie.
    And teaching “Traditions of Men.” And NOT the Bible. CRASH. 😦

    ”The Five Fold Ministry” tends to skip right over Eph 4:7…
    Which says – This ”Gift”* is grace, this **”Gift” is Christ.

    Eph 4:7 –
    But unto every one of us is ”given grace”
    according to the measure of ”the Gift of Christ.”

    And they convince you Eph 4:8, is speaking about Eph 4:11,
    Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastor and Teachers. ARE the ”Gift”
    And they called them, us, ”me,” “Ascension Gifts.”

    Eph 4:8
    Wherefore he saith, When he “ascended up on high”,
    he led captivity captive, “and gave Gifts unto men.”

    BUT, There are other possibilities “and gave Gifts unto men” Eph 4:8
    How about, “and gave Gifts unto men.” refering to…

    1 – Jesus. 2 – the Holy Spirit. 3 – Eternal Life.
    4 – Spiritual Gifts. 5 – Saved by Grace.

    1 – John 4:10 – Jesus is the ”Gift” of God.

    2 – Acts 2:38 – You can receive the ”Gift” of the Holy Spirit.

    3 – Rom 6:3 – the ”Gift” of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.

    4 – 1 Cor 12:1-9 – Talks about “Spiritual ”Gifts.”
    word of wisdom – word of knowledge – faith – healing –
    working of miracles – prophecy – discerning of spirits –
    divers kinds of tongues – interpretation of tongues.

    5 – Eph 2:8 – Being saved by grace through faith – is “the GIFT of God.”

    NO thanks…
    NO longer interested in Mere Fallible Humans…
    Who say they have this special ”Gift’ To pastor, To teach.
    Who call themselves, “A GIFT from Christ.” to the church. 😦

    Think I’ll stick with Jesus, and Eternal Life, and…
    As the ”Gift” of GOD…

    So – What do you think?
    Is it possible “and gave Gifts unto men?”
    Could refer to something other than what we’ve been taught?

    Jer 50:6
    “My people” hath been “lost sheep:”
    their shepherds have caused them to go astray,

    1 Pet 2:25
    For ye were as sheep going astray;
    BUT are now returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

    {{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}


  16. Avid,
    I agree with you concerning the gifting, for this IS Scriptural. However, when I experience and witness “titled and entitled men and women in the church system” literally destroying the gifting that is freely bestowed upon us born again believers, stealing our joy in serving our LORD Jesus Christ freely, well then, yes, I believe there is a problem there. I have a tendency to believe the leading of the Holy Spirit where it concerns our liberty in serving Christ, doing His will, instead of literally being told at church institutions, “Nope, you can’t do that; You MUST go to the board FIRST and have that approved!”

    I have discovered it is far easier to minister on the street, in our homes, as well as the local nursing home, than it is in our churches filled with hierarchy resembling the Amway pyramid system. Sorry.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Yes, Amos you had me laughing at 1st Comment! Can all we wonderful people get together and have a retreat somewhere and fellowship=wouldn’t that be great! How about a different State every year? We are the Church NOT buildings!

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Jesus, our God, is on His Throne in all authority!

    This page has been an interesting read.

    The Lord Jesus said “they will become one flock [with] one shepherd” (John 10:16). Please notice the word “shepherd” there because it comes from the Greek word poimen which is the same word, but in plural, that we find in Ephesians 4:11 that is translated pastors. The words shepherd and pastor and poimen are equivalent terms, so John 10:16 can be read “they will become one flock [with] One Pastor”! This passage of John is where the Lord Jesus refers to Himself as the good Shepherd – notice “the” is the definite article – there are no other “good shepherds” because Jesus did not use the indefinite article “a” where He used “the”. Make NO mistake, the Lord Jesus reserved the title of Pastor to Himself. There are NO legitimate pastors that are mere men among the body of Christ.

    Let’s step back in the passage in John “He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters [them]” (John 10:12). Men that take the title of pastor then take wages for spreading the good news or the work of God is a hired hand and a wolf (Matthew 7:15-16). Two pastors would be two masters for people in church, and the Lord Jesus said “No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other” (Matthew 6:24).

    Another crucial point is that Ephesians 4:11 is in the PAST TENSE. Yet, when the Lord Jesus speaks of sending apostles and prophets, He uses the future tense (Matthew 23:34).

    There is so very much more to the deception that is underway in the church. Men lust after authority, and they fight against God in their vain attempt to take authority. Lord Jesus possesses all authority (Matthew 28:18).

    Liked by 1 person

  19. Kermos

    Much agreement when you write…

    “Make NO mistake,
    the Lord Jesus reserved the title of Pastor to Himself.
    There are NO legitimate pastors that are mere men
    among the body of Christ.”

    Jer 50:6
    “My people” hath been “lost sheep:”
    THEIR shepherds have caused them to go astray,

    1 Pet 2:25
    For ye were as sheep going astray;
    BUT are now returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

    I’m Blest – I’ve “returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of MY soul.”

    {{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}


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