Franklin Graham, Twitter, Spiritual Abuse
I would like to discuss this tweet without making it political. I find it spiritually abusive, but not because it has to do with Trump winning. Look within the message. What can you find here that is spiritually abusive?
Spiritual Sounding Board 
Moderator note: Gov Pappy posted his tweet here, and it’s because of his tweet that I did this post. But I removed his tweet because I want us all to think about the tweet carefully and see how it can be used in a spiritually abusive way.
I will repost Gov. Pappy’s tweets later 🙂 ~ja
LikeLiked by 1 person
I believe the implication from Mr. Graham is that Trump’s election victory was a sign of God’s favor. After all, he (Franklin Graham) heavily invested in Trump’s election with his Republican campaign tour of all 50 state capitals cleverly disguised as prayer meetings. His credibility as the heir to his father’s legacy rests on God placing Donald Trump as president in direct response to the prayers of the christian Right. I, on the other hand, think Mr. Graham does not realize that when God places people in positions of power within governments with such abysmal character as Trump, it’s in judgement of His people turning to the world’s system(s) in idolatry rather than humbly relying on and serving Jehovah.
LikeLiked by 3 people
God does not interfere; silly people interfere. Yes, the tweet is utterly (spiritually) abusive, because it ever so slightly alludes to everything, not just politics. One has to read between the lines, and Julie Anne is a master at that.
Triple sigh, is this year ever going to end? I need strong eggnog.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Does strong eggnog mean extra eggs? 😉
LikeLike
I believe the Kremlin was directly involved in the outcome of this election. I believe people made the choice to hack. People made the choice at Wiki Leaks to dump the info into the public sphere. People in the US either chose or did not choose to cast their vote for a particular candidate. Eighty-one percent of Evangelicals chose to vote for a human completely lacking in morality, integrity and character to be the leader of the “free” world. There were other choices on the ballot in most states. Mr. Graham is playing the “it’s all God’s fault game.” And that is a semi truck load of horse manure.
LikeLike
Julia Anne, uh…no. The other stuff that has no shells.
Take care, Julie Anne, and have a lovely Christmas/Festive time.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ Julie Anne. Did I really write “Julia”? Yep, the eggnog has kicked in. Sorry Julie Anne.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’m willing to bet, had Hillary Clinton won, either Franklin Graham’s response, or that of pastors Robert Jeffress or John Hagee (and other like-minded), would’ve been something like this:
Then, we’d all have to spend the next four or eight years of Hillary’s time in office watching various preachers on TBN’s “Praise the Lord” show and Pat Roberton’s “700 Club” show praying fervently, with their eyes tightly shut….
Desperately imploring the LORD to send America revival because it’s obvious (OBVIOUS!!!) America has turned away from God, because the wicked Hillary was permitted by God to lead the U.S.A. into destruction to teach our wicked rear ends a lesson.
Then you’d hear a billion of these types of Christians, like Pat Roberson, uttering this line from the Bible in their prayers:
Before you get angry at me (if you’re a conservative):
I say all the above as someone who is right wing, who is pro- Israel, who didn’t like Hillary OR Trump, is pretty socially conservative…
But also as someone who is tired of other right wing Christians using every single event in culture to bolster their agenda.
(They also do this with natural disasters: every time a city gets knocked out by floods, tornadoes, or hurricanes, the John Pipers, John Hagees, Pat Robertsons, et al, crawl out from under their rocks to say, blog, and Tweet that said calamity was the HAND OF GOD to judge a nation that is pro-homosexual marriage or not pro-Israel enough.)
I’ve been seeing this junk repeated since I’ve been a kid.
(And yes, the left wingers have their version of this too, and they also annoy me with this stuff.) 🙂
LikeLiked by 6 people
Daisy, do you want some of my eggnog? BTW, I agree with you altogether; preachers are just as opportunistic as politicians. They should rather concentrate on spreading the gospel and telling the truth and leave the wordly, sensational limelight to the emtpy heads of this planet.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Boston Lady, yes, I will take some of your egg nog if you do not mind. Thank you!
In all seriousness, I’ve been thinking of picking some up at the store. 🙂
I just know if Hillary had won there is a pretty good chance we would’ve seen many of the preachers and celebrity Christians going on and on about how horrible it is on their shows. I’ve seen enough of John Piper’s tweets and watched enough TBN over the years to be able to predict how these guys react to stuff like this.
LikeLiked by 2 people
This may not rise to the level of spiritual abuse but it is bad logic. It is a false binary choice, a true binary choice would be A or not-A as opposed to A and B (which is the type of choice Graham presents – such A and B choices might both be true or both be false). Beyond that the word interfered is perhaps not the best word choice for the action of God (as Boston Lady pointed out).
LikeLiked by 1 person
Why does it have to be one or the other? Could it be God working His will through Russia’s interference? Or God giving us what we asked for, as when Israel asked for a king, by blinding us to the significance of Russia’s interference? Because yes, we had some pretty good clues what was going on before the election.
For that matter, it could just be that our time is up and it’s time for someone else to take the lead for the next century or two. Belief in American exceptionalism is such that we seem to think we’re exempt from the rules, but kingdoms rise and fall all the time. Push comes to shove there’s no reason to believe the American empire will be any different. Just as the British Empire began to collapse after WWII, with the sun finally setting on the empire when Hong Kong was returned to China in 1997, maybe, just maybe, the American empire that burst on the world scene during WWI has run it’s course.
LikeLiked by 1 person
He is not spiritually abusing me because he has no power over my life or thinking. positioning it as “spiritual” abuse, I think is the problem. To me, it’s no different than a Muslim saying “Allah willed it” which they do all the time with events. Same thing.
If Christians thought about that they might stop invoking God all the time.
But both have free speech to tweet such silliness.
LikeLike
Boston Lady and L. Lee: I don’t think Franklin was asking if God interfered in the election. It’s hard to be absolutely clear when restricted to 140 characters, but I get the sense that the question that was intended was: Did the Russians interfere with the election, or was it the working of God’s will? I don’t think “interfered” was meant to carry over to God.
Besides, God obviously gave Franklin what he wanted. So that would hardly qualify as interference, right? /sarcasm
LikeLiked by 1 person
“I believe the Kremlin was directly involved in the outcome of this election. I believe people made the choice to hack. People made the choice at Wiki Leaks to dump the info into the public sphere. People in the US either chose or did not choose to cast their vote for a particular candidate. Eighty-one percent of Evangelicals chose to vote for a human completely lacking in morality, integrity and character to be the leader of the “free” world. There were other choices on the ballot in most states. Mr. Graham is playing the “it’s all God’s fault game.” And that is a semi truck load of horse manure.”
Hmm. I thought this sort of comment wasn’t allowed?
LikeLike
My opinion is that Franklin just looks for ways to put his 2 cents in on everything to keep himself in the limelight with his fan base/donors. He could have used the same tweet if Hillary had won. He would just need a substitute for Russia, like the media intervening running those awful off air clips of Trump.
LikeLiked by 1 person
This is an egregious violation of the commandment not to take God’s name in vain. How does Franklin Graham know Trump is God’s approved candidate? The commandment not to take the Lord’s name in vain isn’t an injunction against silly verbal ticks like “OMG.” It is against dragging God’s name to peddle’s one’s agenda. That whole “don’t say things like OMG and take the Lord’s name in vain” is a pure American Evangelical invention with no basis on Scripture.
For those of us old enough to have endured the apocalyptic hysteria of the 70’s, and 80’s and read best sellers like “The Late, Great Planet Earth” by Hal Lindsey, Russia was supposed to be the mortal enemy of Israel and God (War of Gog and Magog). Has biblical prophecy changed now that the leaders of the Religious Right find themselves enamored with Russia and Putin?
LikeLiked by 3 people
I just can’t.
Make it stop.
haha.
LikeLiked by 1 person
OR… was it…. SATAN?
(a la SNL church lady)
LikeLiked by 2 people
Daisy, you hit the nail right on the head.
This stuff is so subjective.
The guy is redefining reality for his readers. However things go, he co-opts it for the message he wants to give.
It reminds me of this ad I keep seeing for Huckabee’s dvd about “God’s role in American history” that disgusts me. Who is able to speak for God and say what he is doing and why? No one! It’s blasphemous.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Think Frank Graham is bad?
Check this out from John MacArthur. He is off go a good start. He rightly says God is sovereign and the kingdom of God will march on regardless of the outcome of the election.
Then it goes downhill really fast. He goes on to argue that there is only one choice for Christians at the ballot box this year and that you cannot possibly claim Christ and vote Democrat. In a 15 minute talk, he manages to commit every single logical fallacy from this list. It’s quite a feat.
//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js
The best one is toward the end. He cites high suicide rates among transgender teenagers and places the blame squarely on liberal Democrats for gender confusion.
LikeLike
Echoing L. Lee, it’s a false dichotomy. God could have used the Russians’ interference with the election to bring about his will. Yet, we don’t know what God’s will is – is Trump judgment or reprieve? Remember it was God’s will to raise up the Assyrians to destroy Israel and lead them into captivity.
I don’t think it’s wise to put words in God’s mouth. Just because Graham wants Trump and Graham thinks he is God’s mouthpiece doesn’t mean that Graham should be tweeting that. Maybe he should stick with God’s REVEALED will rather than his secret will.
I don’t feel “abused” by his post, since Franklin Graham holds no place of spiritual authority over me, but I do feel that he is trying to cross a line he shouldn’t cross. Instead of stating his opinion as his opinion, he is trying to shove his opinion into God’s mouth. It sounds like pearls of wisdom from someone like Piper – ala “I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy”
LikeLiked by 1 person
Mr. Opportunity wants you to believe that if you don’t think God had a hand in the election, then you really are not a “true” Christian. Think hard people….do you want to thank the Russians or thank God?
LikeLiked by 1 person
David, can you check the second link, please? If you post a new comment, I’ll edit out the link. ~ja
LikeLike
Why is he only giving me two choices?
LikeLiked by 1 person
There you go, Shannon.So essentially he’s saying, there are no other choices.
LikeLiked by 1 person
The only thing I find in that tweet is that Graham 2.0 has an insatiable need for attention.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I wish these big name pastor/teachers stop using twitter period. One can’t do theology in one line zingers. Franklin Graham is giving legitimacy to what really is just rumors and speculations on the media’s part, which is Russia was tinkering with the election. There has been no proof of that any where. He put God in the same boat as the Russians, that God is tinkering around illegally with the election. I’m not sure if that was his point but that is what basically he said.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Debatable theology? Perhaps. Debatable politics? Likely? Debatable opinion? Definitely. Spiritual abuse? No.
LikeLike
So, Graham is implying that if you don’t support Trump’s presidency then you are going against God. Definitely spiritual abuse.
LikeLiked by 1 person
My opinion is that Franklin just looks for ways to put his 2 cents in on everything to keep himself in the limelight with his fan base/donors. He could have used the same tweet if Hillary had won. He would just need a substitute for Russia, like the media intervening running those awful off air clips of Trump.
Agree with Sister. They all want to stay relevant so they can write books. Guess Franklin will say that anyone that dares to question Trump questions God. Good luck with that one. Trump will be the most watched, and critiqued, president ever. I don’t mind that btw. Hope this starts a trend for ALL presidents. Extend that mindset to ALL politicians and I will be a happy camper.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I’m afraid I think the reference to the Russians is a hangover from the cold war and the need for an enemy. The Soviet Union has gone.
I suppose the more Calvinist you are and therefore emphasise the sovereignty of God, the more likely you are to see Trump’s election as being God’s direct will. If you tend in the Arminian direction, you will believe that God’s sovereignty includes within in it allowing men to make their own decisions. The institution (existence) of government is part of God’s sovereignty, but any one holder of high office (‘kings and all who are in high positions’) may, when subject to election as today’s rulers are in the West, be left to the choice of the electorate.
It is no good blaming God if and when the electorate make a poor choice!
I have every sympathy for American evangelicals and other flavours of Christians who, particularly in the election just held, had to try to balance doing their civic duty in seeking the welfare of their country and keeping a clear conscience at the same time.
One thing worthy of consideration is whether Mike Pence as an evangelical Christian just might be a kind of Joseph to Trump’s Pharaoh. I do wonder if this might be the hand of God in the election. Only time will tell, and since I am not a prophet nor son of a prophet there is no way of knowing God’s involvement in the election apart from thinkingly applying general principles embodied in scripture.
LikeLike
I would suggest that Mr. Graham’s tweet is an ill-advised pairing of God’s sovereignty with political chicanery.
Spiritual abuse is not immediately apparent that I’m willing to listen.
LikeLike
It’s not so much abusive as it is bad theology. Why is Trump president? Because God, the Russians, and the American people all want him there. If Clinton would have won, it would have been because God and the American people wanted her there.
Note to Franklin Graham: The fact that God wants someone as president (or whatever) doesn’t mean God approves of their policies.
LikeLike
kay, “My opinion is that Franklin looks for ways to put his two cents in on everything to keep himself in the limelight with his fan base/donors.”
You may be on to something there kay! What would happen if these so called men and women who speak for a god on a regular basis, would just shrivel up like a weed in the garden after its root has been snipped by the hoe? I find it totally fascinating how the far the visible church has come in spiraling downward to placing their hope, faith and trust in this man or that woman who claims they know the LORD better than anyone else. Let alone, speaks for god/ or a god of their own understanding. Without the media, Franklin and the religious right or left, may have to actually earn mammon the old fashioned way, and I’m not speaking of prostitution or pimping here, although I have read/studied our Holy Scriptures where it does make reference to the harlot church.
Growing up in a democratic home and living in an area that primarily voted the Dem. ticket, I was led to believe that our faith in Jesus Christ favored the Democrats. Another words, I believed Jesus was a Democrat with the light shining upon that big city on the hill that consisted only of Democrats. After college and marrying into a Republican family, and attending a conservative Baptist church for many a year, I was led down the road of Republicanism, listening to conservative preachers, preaching the false gospel of politics/patriotism/nationalism from the pulpit system. I concluded with my higher educational thought process that,
Jesus, was indeed, no doubt, a Republican. As I grew in my faith by reading the Scriptures and listening to my conservative pastor, I just knew that this jesus figure, had to be a reformed republican savior, who was working out our salvation to give us our best life now here on this earth. Go, go, jesus! Then, I had the pleasure of a self proclaimed “prophetess”, speak the words of god over me during one of the churches “mystical moments.” Needless to say, her self proclaimed prophecy did not come true, thus making her a false prophetess.
Franklin’s words above remind me of the rank heresies permeating many a denominational system, where men and women speak vain words/prophecies from their hearts, and yet cannot even begin to know God’s truth for we are NOT the LORD.
I have come to learn that the Jesus I believe in, Jesus, the Christ, of our Holy Scriptures was neither a Democrat, nor a Republican. He did not identify with the political parties of His day, nor did He ever promote earthly people and governments to be our One and Only King, and yet, we are to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s.
With ever flavor of political ice cream the Christian enjoys, whether it be Democrat or Republican, that individual has a tendency to equate a jesus of their own making with such tasty fervor. And yet, Jesus came not to create His Kingdom of God here on earth, but His Kingdom yet to come which is in heaven. Utopia will never happen in this fallen world.
Psalm 118: 8-9 speak truth to the matter of political conundrum,
“It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.” (or princesses-a human thought added for reassurance)
LikeLiked by 2 people
Replacement theology:
“Replacing the Word of God, our Holy Scriptures, with the self prophecies, the self anointed words, the self adoring everything of man (or woman.)
Another point of reference: I have heard many a preacher man speak for a god, in proclaiming natural disasters as a judgement from the Almighty for the sins of a particular geographic area. And yet, when the storms/tornadoes/natural disasters happen to these very same charlatans’ homes/cities/geographical area, what particular sins are happening to them that they should be struck with such calamity? Is God pouring out His Judgement over their homes/families because of their own sins?
Perhaps we all fall short of the Glory of God in many areas.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Not spiritually abusive at all.
God “interfered” in the election by using the Russians to elect Trump, just like God used the Babylonians.
So if Trump’s children are killed in front of him just before he is blinded and led away in chains it will all be part of the plan?
LikeLike
I am not sure if it is spiritually abusive or not, but I do find Graham’s tweet incredibly ignorant and Biblically illiterate.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Why does it seem in “the gospel world” that everything in life is black or white? I suspect that teaching “obedience” as the ultimate Godly trait reduces every life event as caused by either “A” (good) or “B” (bad). No critical thinking is allowed. No grey areas, no flexibility. It boils down to which “spiritual leader” you believe holds the real spiritual truth. What a great opportunity for narcissists, manipulators and sociopaths!
I agree with Lydia00-we have the power to choose who we follow. Unfortunately, many children are so indoctrinated with the idea of total obedience, as adults they do not realize they do have that power to choose what to believe. Certain church cultures rely on conformity and insist on leaders holding all the power. Making certain “Christians” into rock stars just reenforces this power grab and are not called out on their outrageous (Piper, Graham) ideas.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Julie Anne,,
If Hillary won, I wouldn’t consider Franklin Graham’s tweet Spiritually Abusive,, so why would one think it would be abusive because Trump has won, is beyond my imagination.
Both candidates were flawed,,. I can’t say one candidate was more or less moral than the other. It came down to economics.
To a woman that has the economic means of escaping abuse, then poverty is not an issue as maybe her biggest challenge is hardwood or tile in the kitchen remodel. But many to many women, poverty is no friend to the abused as it enables them.. Clinton backed extreme Gov’t over-regulation, which is a job killer enabling women.
My wife and I prayed to God the morning of the election, that we would except the results regardless of the outcome.
One would have to do some serious bottom feeding and fabricate a fantasy inside their brain to suggest Graham’s political views and tweet as Spiritually Abusive, unless you are fixated into thinking any view contrary to your own as Spiritually Abusive, which I would suggest seeing a counselor with neutral political views.
I am no fan of Franklin Graham,, I liked his father’s preaching
This thread is better off avoiding politics if one feels Spiritually Abuse by following the tweet of someone with differing political views.
LikeLike
Rob war, it isn’t media speculation that Russians meddled in the election, it is the opinion of the CIA and now the FBI as well. Presumably they have evidence; I hope they can share whatever evidence they can with the American people without giving away secrets about how they got it to the Russians. I think that it what Grahan was responding to, not media speculation.
LikeLike
Mark, you are thinking politically. I was not. I was thinking solely of the spiritual implications of his words.
LikeLike
Here is Gov Pappy’s tweet I mentioned I would repost. It’s actually a sequence of tweets and you have to click on it to get to the rest of them.
LikeLike
Julie Anne,,
I’m not seeing Spiritual Abuse by his tweet,, I don’t follow Franklin Graham so maybe you see things about him that I don’t.
Frankly, I wonder if you would’ve felt Spiritually Abused by his tweet, if Hillary won the election.
LikeLike
Julie Anne,
Oh, the abuse (spiritual, whatever, choose your flavor) in Graham’s tweet is there, but it’s even clearer when one reads between the lines and sees the bigger picture. It doesn’t start or end at “politics,” His implication (ever so slyly, as these folks are trained so well to do), does NOT end there; it invades your home, your life, your viewpoint on everything, your complete view of what they call Christianity (their way).
Besides, you know…being personal spokesmen for God and all that jazz, how dare you, Julie Anne, or any other person who do not have a hotline and some free minutes to heaven, even consider doubting him/them. I’m shivering of fear…not. I’m shaking in my boots. NOT.
This guy is dangerous, spiritually (in my opinion). Avoid him and his ilk. Bad tree, bad fruit, diarrhea.
LikeLike
I just don’t understand how people can think they’re following the Lord whilst heaping these absolutely ridiculous charlatans at the same time.
Biggest donkeys ever haha
Guess that’s deception for you haha
It would be funny if it didn’t cause real harm to real people.
These guys only get a platform because people reject the Lord.
Nothing has changed.
Why walk in the Spirit when you can follow Franklin and his merry band of Billy wannabes.
There is nothing uglier than “family ministries”.
Nothing to do with God.
Money grubbing filth pots.
I hate it.
God is good end rant
LikeLiked by 1 person
Salty,
Somehow, you make my day every time you post. Thank you for that, and thank you for the truth (which is more important, I guess).
You are the Salty of the earth, dear sister.
LikeLike
BL 👊😚🔥🚀
LikeLike
Not spiritual abuse at all, just a logc error. Sometimes i wonder whether the point of this blog is dissension.
LikeLike
Irene. Friend!
Don’t forget gossip.
It’s not calling out the lying, cheating, sheep milking charlatans!
It’s gossip!!
And the Lord hates gossip.
More than child abuse.
More than adultery.
More than domestic abuse.
More than idolatry.
Yep.
Let’s stop talking altogether and allow the men of Gawd who love the title of “Pastor” reserved only for the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. (Jesus)
Let’s not pick on them.
Let’s not question them or discuss them lest we commit the unforgivable sin! Haha
Irene.
WHO IS the dissenting party?
The abuser or the intended victim?
God judge me on that day.
We need a big F dissention party in Christendom.
If you have more issue with the letter F and the deep emotion it is suppose to convey…
Then you could be a part of the problem.
(If you get my point) 😏
LikeLike
“Not spiritual abuse at all, just a logc error. Sometimes i wonder whether the point of this blog is dissension.”
I would add, as a Libertarian, it has become obviously imbalanced. As in some victims are PC and some aren’t.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Julie Anne and lydia00,,
If Franklin Graham backed Hillary and Hillary won the election and he wrote the same tweet, I don’t see how his tweet would be as Spiritually Abusive to the author of this thread,, so why is it now?
Could the author of this thread, writing about this particular tweet, is a little more Politically motivated in this instance, because Hillary lost?
I don’t think politics has a place in this thread,, we don’t need to know the political views of one another,, because we have a tendency to ignore the serious flaws of one candidate over the other.
We are exposing our political and spiritual ignorance when we attempt to connect the two together, like many clergy are doing, maybe even Graham.
This thread has been good resource for many of us to realize how clergy, leaders, Patriarchs and Matriarchs has used, manipulated and hid behind their hyper-doctrines in a way that devastates their victims.
LikeLike
Salty, Franklin Graham hasn’t been accused of any of those things. Julie Anne has accused him of profiting off the election–without providing any proof. He has personally been a first responder in Haiti and many other places. Also, this is a forum for people to run others down generally. Read Daisy’s accusations against Pat Robertson. It is hard to make a case that the Lord hasn’t used and blessed him.
I agree with Mark that politics has no place here. It is a not a subject worth dividing christians over.
LikeLike
Thank-you Mark. I have heard pastors/profits/profitesses from both political parties, Democrat as well as Republican, actually speak for god/a god. But then, within the visible church, I have been told to follow Beth Moore as well, for she too, is a literal mouthpiece for god/a god, amongst other false teachers and preachers that I’m supposed to follow on a daily basis to get my spiritual nourishment for the day. So much for my Bible and the mind that our LORD gave me. According to the mouthpieces for god/a god, that’s not enough!
To date, I haven’t heard a libertarian or a green party candidate speak for god, much to their credit. And to be honest here, I have to admit that at one time I actually followed Pat Robertson’s theology and gave mammon to the Christian Coalition.
Oh, what a fool was I. May I reiterate the word “was.” My spiritual eyes weren’t opened until we purchased a computer and I began to listen to his broadcasts. I couldn’t believe my ears at the garbage coming out of that man’s mouth….including his false prophecies for profits. I had to go and splash cold water on my face to make sure I was hearing straight.
And on that day, our LORD humbled me for I had been a fool in following this man’s smooth speaking newsletters that I received in the mail. I now call it “viper mail!” And as I gathered with the other women from my former church for Bible study (another lie – we didn’t crack open our Bibles to study the Word of God….we gossiped, gossiped, and gossiped some more), I too, was able to brag and boast like the other women, of how much mammon I gave to the “Christian Coalition.” We were a proud, proud lot.
Boy, was I ever gullible; and just plain stupid. Now I guard my heart fully knowing the source of my ‘springs of life’….Jesus, the Christ. No longer follow religious folks who ‘speak for god’ for He has freely given us His Word, and the Holy Spirit who lives inside of His people, to illuminate His Scriptures to us.
LikeLike
Franklin Graham is just another one of those “gifted teachers”.
LikeLike
Katy,,,
You are welcome,,, your comments solidity’s my point, this thread should avoid politics.
This election was the strangest most of us have witnessed,, from two strong willed candidates who could’ve been arguably (by some) the most flawed two choices.
If Graham’s Trump leaning Tweet was Spiritually Abusive, then so is every clergy’s Clinton leaning Tweets.
Like I have suggested and hasn’t been disputed, If Graham favored Clinton and Clinton won the election, I don’t think the author of this thread would’ve felt Spiritual Abused with Graham’s Tweet.
LikeLike
Then I will dispute it. I have been following this site for years now and I have no idea about Julie Anne’s politics. I am a Hillary supporter and I know lots of clergy and not one of them ever told me that God wanted her to be President. Not one. They would have considered it spiritually abusive to speak for God and I would have too.
I have however been told repeatedly by numerous fellow evangelical Christians from the time Ronald Reagan first ran for President that the Republican candidate was the only Christian choice. During this last election I was told that I was possessed by a demon, had a Jezebel spirit, and was going to hell. I was warned that I would have to stand before God and account for my vote.
LikeLike
Marsha,,
I’m sorry that you accused of being possessed, those that said those mean things make me question if they lack love and maybe aren’t even a Christian,
But don’t kid yourself to think that liberal clergy didn’t stay silent about who they think should’ve been president.
That is the thing I don’t like about clergy exposing their political views, is they think because they are clergy that they have better political insight about who they think is the right candidate and are confident in their position they can proclaim it, whether they are Dem or a Pub.
As for the author of this thread, her political views it is very evident to me. But outside of politics, her thread has been a valuable resource of understanding what real Spiritual Abuse is,, and where much of it is coming from.
LikeLike
Mark, there is a difference between a minister or Christian talking about who they vote for and why in a conversation and he or she claiming that they know that God wants a particular candidate to be elected.
My political choices are determined by my Christian values but I would never say that I know God’s will or even that God determines the final outcome of an election. I am Arminian.
LikeLike
Marsha,,
It takes all kinds,, some use the pulpit to influence,, as the authority whether they lean Dem or Pub,, others conceal it. But Graham in my view wasn’t force feeding his will, which is what most abusers do.
If we don’t like what Graham has to say, we can tune him out, which is what I’m doing.
Clergy have a tendency to interpret scriptures that matches their politics,, or they can emphasize a view and ignore the countering view,, which is influencing (which is something we all do) and they all don;t agree,, and we know the Holy Spirit isn’t the spirit of confusion, which is why bringing up politics is a bad idea. in a tweet or a thread like this.
I lean somewhat Arminian as well,, accept some Arminians believe you can lose your Salvation after you have been saved. I believe you can’t be unborn after being born-again.
LikeLike
@Katy, love your description of Replacement Theology. RT is usually a pejorative term used by dispensationalists directed at adherents of Covenant Theology, but I like yours better.
We might as well rewrite Galatians 5:22-23
LikeLike
David Cho,,
You wrote:
“We might as well rewrite Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is capitalism, American Exceptionalism, patriotism, war-mongering, homophobia, Islamophobia, jingoism, misogyny, and Donald Trump.”
Seeings how you are being just opinionated as the rest of us,, I’ll add my opinion and suggest, that your newly formed verse is an over the top and ridiculous statement that is insulting to any of us who voted for Trump.
“Misogyny” give me a break.
Mexico is Patriotic, Canada is Patriotic,, Patriotism is not as bad word.
LikeLike
Mark, you have my vote on Cho’s post. There’s an agenda, and it’s rather exposed and extravagant. Almost like, “Huh? What?”
(What is the topic of this specific thread again?)
LikeLike
Boston Lady,,,
It is embarrassing, I think Cho exposed his interpretation and meaning of Graham’s tweet.
Too much was read into that tweet. Like I suggested, if Graham was a supporter of Hillary, and wrote the same tweet, I don’t think those that supported Hillary would’ve felt Spiritually Abused by that tweet.
This thread is acting no different in exposing their views, like Graham or Rev Wright in being self proclaimed Christians and exposing their political take on the elections.
Though we won’t discuss Wright,, will we?
LikeLike
Mark,
You are trying to draw an equivalence which in this case does not work. American Evangelicals overwhelmingly voted for Trump. American Evangelicals overwhelmingly favor conservatism. American Evangelicals overwhelmingly identify with the right wing of the political spectrum.
Who is the left equivalent of Franklin Graham? Of James Dobson? Of Tony Perkins? Of Focus On the Family? Of the Christian Coalition?
Name one prominent religious leader from the left, and I will match ti with 5 from the right. Ready?
Jeremiah Wright? He has been thrown under the bus by the President soon after the infamous tapes came out. We haven’t heard from him in almost 8 years. Do Democrats genuflect before him for support? The equivalence you are trying to establish as if some leftwing preacher who had 15 minutes of fame cancels out the likes of Franklin Graham simply does not work.
LikeLike
^^That was me, David Cho^^
LikeLike
David Cho,,
Who cares what preachers politically think,,, you know most conservatives will not vote for a liberal. And a liberal will vote liberal most of the time.
Obama didn’t through Wright under a bridge, he simply distanced himself to avoid bad press.
Your analogies are in bad taste.
If Graham supported Clinton,, and wrote that tweet, it would not have had the same effect to Clinton supporters, who profess to be Christian.
Many of us voted for Trump,, view your hyperbole using words like misogyny or insinuating words like capitalism and patriotism as a fault, is insulting.
Those of us who have experienced real Spiritual Abuse who voted for Trump don’t come into a site like this those of us who have been spiritually abused and voted for Trump.
The rhetoric that is coming out of Obama’s mouth is creating more tension with Russia and Israel is non-sense,, so you can eat your war-mongering words.
Russia didn’t sway the voters mind in the rust belt, it was Hillary’s lack of ability to reach out to them.. Any hacks that effected Hillary came from Wiki Leaks not Russia.
This thread should avoid politics.. I will also suggest when you re-write the bible and change the words,, it may have greater consequences than you think.
LikeLike
David Cho..
You should admit, you made a mistake and move on..
LikeLike
Mark, are there Hillary supporters in this thread that I am not aware of? You keep saying “if Graham supported Hillary.” That would never happen. When/if that ever happens, I will deal with it. You keep trying to draw an equivalence that just does not happen. It is as likely as I winning a lotto, so I don’t spend a lot of time planning what to do with a $50 million winning.
My hyperbole, if you will, was a criticism directed at conflating political conservatism with Christianity. People think being Christian automatically means being a political rightwing conservative. It is a perception which conservative Evangelical Christians have cultivated for decades.
It is not uncommon for a Christian, when around other Christians, say things like, “we won” in reference to the election. Who is “we”? The assumption is, Christian = rightwing. But presumptuous statements full of assumptions, suppositions and conclusions simply roll off Evangelical Christians’ mouths. No Christian that I know ever would say that if Hillary would have won.
The equivalence you keep trying to remains hypothetical and unlikely. At least not in my circles. But keep drumming up imaginary scenarios as if they surmount to legitimate arguments.
Sure, Obama simply distanced himself from Wright. Do Democrats line up around the block to secure Wright’s endorsement? Is there a liberal Christian equivalent of Liberty University which has become a mandatory stop for Republican candidates seeking Evangelical support?
LikeLike
Mark, since you are still trying to come up with equivalences, perhaps you can point out to tweets from prominent leftwing Christians from 2008 and 2012 crediting God for Obama’s wins. You keep saying, “if Hillary won,” Obama won in 2008 and 2012, so I am sure you have plenty of real life examples of the leftwing version of Franklin Graham’s tweets.
LikeLike
Can’t comment on the tweet since it’s been taken down, but I must say that, to my way of thinking, any proposition, cause, product or person sponsored or promoted by Franklin Graham is not likely to be well received by me. Maybe it isn’t entirely fair to suppose that the message is (almost) always discredited by a discredited messenger, but I tend to think that, when he is being paid almost a million dollars per year for his efforts, as is reportedly the case with Graham, a messenger’s message is likely to have been corrupted. Perhaps I could be persuaded to make allowances if and to the extent Graham glorifies Jesus as king, but I am not aware that he is actually doing this. Maybe that’s because there isn’t as much profit in promoting our King as there is in promoting worldly political causes and personages.
LikeLike
Gary!
Didn’t you hear? Franklin was a first responder when Haiti crisis went down.
I’m not entirely sure how we know this as Jesus told us not to toot our philanthropist horny horns 😂
I’m guessing he sent out an email to his followers and supporters and donors about it.
Subtle Haha
LikeLike
David Cho,,
I have better things to do than follow the tweets and political views of any clergy,, this particular write up attempted to combine spiritual abuse with a political tweet by someone connected with Tullian Tchividjian.
And yes there are those that have proclaimed to vote for Hillary. It would be hard to google clergy voting Dem.. as matter of I’m facebook friends with one of them and he isn’t nearly as insulting as you.
There are abusive clergy who voted for Trump that are hard core, Hyper-Calvinist who that I could never have anything to do with.
The day of the election I had already accepted Hillary’s victory as either God’s will or God allowing it to happen.
There is nothing wrong with being patriotic and voting for Trump doesn’t make me war-monger or misogyny.
The hair-brain Scripture you fabricated is insulting and really stupid.
LikeLike
Of course Franklin Graham’s organization has been active in Haiti. They are heavy recipients of US taxpayer dollars through the United States Agency for International Development to do just that.
LikeLike
Mark, we might have a troll here (Cho). I feel it in the tone…ignore him, and he’ll go to play somewhere else.
LikeLike
Mark, conflating the gospel with right wing politics (or leftwing politics, if that ever happens) is far more insulting. Sorry that you took my comment as an insult. It was to make a point about the conflation of rightwing politics with Christianity. Franklin Graham might take it as a compliment.
You keep trying to create an equivalence (“if Graham supported Hillary”), but the only thing you have to offer are hypothetical scenarios. When asked to back them up with real life examples, you cop out.
Yes I googled and found nothing. Sure there are Jim Wallis and others, but noway do they match up with their rightwing counterparts in numbers or influence. Not even close. The equivalence is false and baseless.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Mark, you have “better things to do than follow clergy tweets?”
I’m not really sure what you’re doing here then other than trying to tone police, which you apparently have plenty of time to do. If you’re not going to be up to speed on mainstream Christian trends, then that’s fine – it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but you might want to hesitate before speaking to the subject. Some of us have made a point of following this stuff.
LikeLike
David Cho is not a troll. I agree with him.
LikeLike
I’d be careful about drawing too-quick conclusions about who voted for Trump and why.
From what I’ve read:
Many of the white people who voted for Trump in 2016 voted for Obama twice, in previous presidential elections.
A lot of women voted for Trump – the ones who acknowledged his sexism said they did not like his sexist comments from the past that were repeated in the news, but they felt Hillary would’ve been a worse choice.
I saw a headline or two saying not as many evangelicals voted for Trump as was initially reported (this is just what I saw, I am not sure how accurate this is). If I can find that article again (I saw it go by in my Twitter account about a month ago) I will post it in this thread.
Even if there were truckloads of evangelicals who did vote for Trump, there was a significant amount who came out strongly against him, so far as penning open letters or articles that were published on Christian news sites saying they didn’t agree with him being a nominee, including well-known Christian names such as Max Lucado and Russell Moore.
_Many evangelicals favor Trump because he is not Clinton_ (Pew Research site)
LikeLike
That is a reasonable take, Daisy.
My beef is with so called leaders like Franklin Graham, Jerry Falwell Jr. and John MacArthur who tell their followers that there was only one obvious choice for Christians in this past election. To them, it’s black and white and voting for Trump over Clinton is a no brainer and there is no room for disagreement.
As to whether Graham’s tweet is spiritually abuse, you have to consider the source (Graham) and take into consideration his other public statements and tweets. He is a rightwing political hack. It would be okay if he kept his political views to himself, but he does not. He is very vocal, which leads people to believe rightwing conservatism and Christian faith are one and the same.
LikeLike
Franklin Graham does tend to mingle politics and faith publicly a bit too much for my liking (I’d feel this way even if the guy was left wing).
I do agree with the underlying substance of some of F. Graham’s points, but not all.
Even when I find myself agreeing with F. Graham on a topic, I don’t always agree with how he communicates it – he can come on too strong, which unnecessarily offends a bunch of people.
F. Graham’s organization, Samaritan’s Purse, does do some wonderful charity work, but, IMHO, that does not necessarily excuse or make-up for his public pronouncements intersecting Christianity and politics or social issues.
I don’t want this to be construed as saying I think it’s wrong for Christians (famous or not) to publicly express their views (on politics or whatever other subject). I think it’s okay for them to do so, but I wish they would be more careful or responsible in how they go about it, and maybe not harp on cultural war stuff as much as they do.
LikeLike
Gov Pappy,,
Looks like you would make a pretty darn good Blog Cop yourself,,
This thread as been a great resource for those of us that have experienced real Spiritual Abuse.
I responded to a Fabricated re-wording of scripture by DC that I copy and pasted below,, now if you think that wouldn’t be insulting to you,, then you need to get your head examined.
“We might as well rewrite Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is capitalism, American Exceptionalism, patriotism, war-mongering, homophobia, Islamophobia, jingoism, misogyny, and Donald Trump.”
LikeLike
David C said,
Maybe the left wing does not have as many well-known religious (Christian) speakers for “their side” of things, but still, they get their message out on social media and blogs.
Do you want there to be a left-wing equivalent to Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson? If so, why?
I’m about as keen to see left-wingers get a famous left-wing spokes-head to obnoxiously bloviate on politics and social issues about as much as I want to see the Falwells, Pipers, and Robertsons do so – which is to say, not at all. 🙂
Rev. Jesse Jackson and Rev. Al Sharpton are rather left wing, and they do turn up on TV every so often to chip in their two cents on some political or social issues. (Or they used to, quite a bit.)
You said,
There’s nothing necessarily wrong with a person being a Christian and being right wing, conservative, patriotic, etc.
You said,
I’d say there is some truth in that, yes. (I’m a right winger by the way.)
I don’t think there’s enough charity on either side of this debate. I see some anti-Trump evangelicals (or anti-Trump secular liberals) who automatically attribute horrible motives to anyone who voted for Trump.
You said (to Mark),
Off the top of my head, I don’t recall any such examples, but that doesn’t mean that some left wing secularists or left wing Christians are not every bit as rude towards political opponents.
Some left wingers are pretty condescending or rude to right wingers (and especially over Trump), but minus all the God-talk, which I don’t think is any friendlier. A person can be nasty without bringing God or Bible verses into things.
You said (to Mark),
I don’t know about celebrity Christians who do this, but I see plenty of normal, every-day, non-famous left wing Christians who conflate politics, social justice warrior causes, in with their Christianity – on Twitter, on Facebook, on blogs.
I’ve seen some of them post memes suggesting that Jesus Christ is or was a socialist, and so on.
LikeLike
I have no idea why you’re bringing that to my attention. That’s between you and David. Also, sure, call it policing all you want, I don’t care – the effect is that I’m holding you to own words that you don’t keep up with “clergy tweets”, which is literally the subject of this post, and trying to tell us who do that we’re making something out of nothing and causing dissension. I don’t understand.
LikeLike
And for the record, what I’m doing here is the first comment on the post – my series of tweets on the subject partly spawned this post. I’ve been following it since to catch other insights.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Gov,,
You seemed to be asserting me as the Blog Police,,, you stuck you nose into something,, so I brought you up to speed,, and I have elected you as the new Blog Cop,,,
LikeLike
Lydia’s post:
I’ve noticed that too, that some groups are considered to be true victims worthy of protection and compassion, and some aren’t, and who gets the victim label is determined by left wing politically correct conventions (speaking in general terms here).
I’m a right winger, but not so much on board with the GOP any more; sometimes I’m critical of the GOP. I’ve been more open to considering the liberal view on topics the last few years, so I began reading a lot more of their blogs and news sites, and so forth.
Just like conservatives have their blind spots, I’ve noticed that liberals do as well.
One of several issues in this area that drives me bonkers is Islam.
I think that extremist Islam can and does pose a danger to society – almost any time a terrorist acts, it’s almost always some guy who is Muslim – not Presbyterian, Agnostic, Hindu, Baptist, Lutheran, or Jewish, for instance – so, I’d like to see the United States Govt. take national security far more seriously than they do.
However, you can’t mention this in some venues, or some folks will assume or insist that you are Islamophobic, or they will mention that they personally know a Muslim guy or two who are super nice people who baked them wonderful apple pies once,
Or, they have researched Islam out the wazoo for many years and are quite educated about it (they seem to really enjoy showing off their extensive knowledge), and they find Islam really great, so we shouldn’t view Islam as any sort of possible problem or threat.
Those sorts of reactions (which I think is very naive and hence dangerous for national security) is very common from some commentators, including a few regulars, on another site both you and I visit quite a bit, and I find myself biting my tongue a lot when I’m at the other site on this issue. 🙂
LikeLike
And you’re still dodging the implications of your professed ignorance on the subject of this post with a lame attempt at mockery.
Carry on.
LikeLike
I think if the original post had contained a similar example from a left wing, public Christian figure commenting on politics and God, it might have gone over better.
As it is, I can see how someone who is right wing who voted for Trump might take the original post the wrong way, as in a subtle dig against right wingers or Trump voters (disclaimer and reminder: I did not vote for anyone in election 2016, as I did not like any of the candidates).
I’m not completely sure how the F. Graham tweet represents a case of spiritual abuse.
I conceded above in another post that, yes, a lot of famous right wing Christians do publicly mingle their religion with politics quite a bit. I see F. Graham’s tweet to be more of the same of that.
If I remember correctly, quasi- famous (as in, well-known among many Christians online) left wing Christians Rachel Held Evans and Jory Micah (could be wrong about Micah – she’s possibly A-political or moderately conservative?) were stumping for Hillary Clinton on their Twitter accounts. They were asking Christians to vote for Hillary and/or avoid Trump.
On Huffington Post:
_Why My Christian Faith Obligates Me to Support Hillary Clinton_ by Rick Hendrix
I would take it that Mr. Hendrix is left wing, but I could be mistaken. Huff Post is definitely a left wing site.
Various web page headlines:
“EVANGELICAL LEADERS: TELL US TO VOTE FOR CLINTON”
– on The Gospel Coaltiion site. Written by a guy who says he’s always voted Democrat before.
Hillary Clinton Is Now The Most Religious Candidate Running For President. Here’s Why That Matters. – via Left Wing Site Think Progress by Jack Jenkins
A Christian Vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016 – by Ted Williams III, via Think Christian site
Hillary Clinton: Eight Reasons this Jesus Freak Says “I’m With Her” – by Jon Trott – via Blue Christian blog
LikeLike
_An Evangelical Makes Her Case For Clinton_ – via Politico
Hillary Clinton Is the Best Choice for Voters Against Abortion – via The Christian Post, Oct 2016 headline, editorial by Eric Sapp
LikeLike
Gov,,
I have suggested that those of us that have endured real Spiritual Abuse have found refuge on this site. I don’t think politics has a place in this thread,, but it’s not my thread,,
Though I don’t care to follow Graham,,, his political tweet is in no way Spiritual Abusive.
If this blog wants to change direction and become politically motivated like MSNBC or Fox than I won’t need to look at this site to understand where real Spiritual Abuse is occurring.
Strange hyperbole’s and innuendos have been assumed by those that want to scrutinize a tweet that clearly wasn’t abusive,, silly yes,, abusive no.
My impression is you may not see anything wrong with that newly amended verse that was inappropriate as stereotyping those that voted for Trump,,
But hey, since you are the new Blog cop,,, I’ll go along with whatever you say goes,, if that makes me mockery in your eyes, so be it.
LikeLike
Ah, the tweet is back up. Graham is dishonestly employing a false dilemma or fallacy of false choice (L. Lee and Mark use alternative terms, false binary and false dichotomy) in an attempt to manipulate others into rejecting a proposition that is harmful to his own views. It is spiritually abusive because he basically attempts to put people in a position where they feel they must either reject that with Graham would have them reject, or else be opposed to God–or at least to God’s will.
There is also a not so subtle and abusive message to the effect that Graham is God’s spokesperson, so that to disagree with Graham is to disagree with God. Graham thereby attempts to make himself to be accepted as an infallible and incontestable intermediary between God and His children. Graham attempts to manipulate us into, in effect, believing that we, the sheep, are not capable of hearing and knowing the voice of the One True Shepherd.
By employing such manipulative tactics, Graham is playing the part of a spiritual bully.
LikeLiked by 1 person
You got it, Gary. It really is NOT a partisan issue. If any other person used these same tactics, I would say the same about them.
LikeLike
Mark,
This is Twitter we are talking about.
Franklin’s views aren’t limited to the internet.
Can you imagine what it would be like to hold an opposing view and have your bum parked three times per week in ‘his church’ facility?
Are you free to disagree and voice this within the camp?
Or would that cause problems?
If you’re an ‘elder’ on franklins boat for elders can you tweet disagreement and not be bullied?
No.
His tweet is arrogant to the max.
LikeLike
Salty,,
I have heard more insulting words from Hillary, Obama and Trump,,
That tweet was his silly assertion and his need to prove the lack of Russian influence on the election,, which he really didn’t need to do.
What makes Grahams tweet silly is when you think about it, the Russian’s didn’t need to influence the un-employed coal miner in Pennsylvania to vote for Trump,, Hillary admitted she wanted to shut them down.
I’m not going to deny that Graham is a bully,, I don’t know him,, There are many preachers that wouldn’t graciously handle attenders that embrace contrary views as them, whether they lean liberal or conservative. Doesn’t make it right
I find an amazing coincidence I find with this tweet even being brought up in the first place is the timing of the posts regarding Tullian Tchividjian which is where the focus should be,, not Graham
That tweet wasn’t abusive,, it didn’t devastate anybody,, except maybe ruffle the feathers of those who didn’t vote for Trump,,
But Trump, Hillary and Obama’s words were considerably more abusive and influential than Graham.
The coverage by the author of this tweet may have offended her and others, and felt like she was enduring abuse but also political views must’ve played apart as well.
LikeLike
Mark, I’ve said al along that politics don’t belong on this thread, yet you keep bringing up other politicians. I’m asking you to look at this tweet without thinking politically.
LikeLike
David Cho is no troll. He’s been around since my first blog.
LikeLike
“but also political views must’ve played apart as well.”
That’s your opinion Mark.
I’m not an American and I have no involvement in your election.
When I read the tweet I didn’t think about politics.
I thought about Franklin’s arrogant view regarding my God.
Like JA points out… politics has nothing to do with her point.
It’s about Franklin and HIS god.
Take it from an outsider.
Franklin gives no wiggle room for the Lord.
And that’s a scary thought (Considering FG’s position and assumed ‘authority’)
You voted Trump, didn’t you Mark?! 😂👍
LikeLike
I voted for Trump, unapologetically so. I do not fee guilty for doing so, nor will be led to believe that I am another lower laity religious dog. I have been in both liberal and conservative churches who claim to speak for god (of their own understanding) on a regular basis with both sides of the fence doing a bang up job on making me out to believe and fell like a proverbial worm.
This thread is the norm with regards to mixing religion and politics regardless if it’s Franklin (a Rep.) or his father, Billy (a Dem.), it becomes a heated debate resulting in personal attacks and speaking vanity in circles. There is such passion within the human heart regarding politics and yet, such passion is growing scarce when it comes to sharing the love of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the lost, or those who are professing Christ followers that are struggling and are in desperate need of that still small voice of a genteel reminder of Who exactly freely gave His life on that cross for the remission of their sins. Been on both sides of the fence there and am truly thankful for genuine humble believers to come along my side when life becomes very difficult.
I am glad Julie Anne posted the comment made by Franklin Graham as it shows me that BOTH sides of the politicial/religious community speak jibberish when it comes down to ‘speaking for god.’ And fools love the sound of their own voices, especially those within Christendom who rely on the sales of their jesus junk to make a living.
Marsha, when I read your comment, my heart cried for you. Had to run and get some Kleenex for thy eyes and nose, for you were spiritually abused. This is such an abomination unto our LORD, to label those whom disagree, as jezebels. This jezebel theology is getting old in a hurry and just plain sickening; I’ve heard the same song and dance from an Assembly of God pastor man before he was caught in his sexual sins. I am so very sorry Marsha that you had to endure such evil and wickedness and we need to label it as such, “wicked and evil.” Praying that you will overcome the vain words of man and cling to Jesus, the Head, of every born again believer, who loves His sheep like no other. Thank-you for sharing your experience here.
During my years of idolizing politics over Jesus, I held to the belief system of the Dems first, then the Reps later. Personally, the redefining of the Galatians verse by David C. can actually be applied to political candidates in general regardless of their political flavor. Misogyny, capitalistic, etc. only applies to the Republican arena….I used to believe that myself until I placed my body/soul in a liberal church system. I can testify to the fact that those words easily apply to the Democratic elites as well their perceived lesser followers. Your penned words actually apply to mankind in general, thus a desperate need of sharing the Gospel within our own borders.
To work hard with thine own hands, to earn a living and minding our own business is not a sin in this world. My hands look like the hands of a man, not too pretty and they wouldn’t be awarded a modeling contract for Dove soap, that’s for sure. They are ugly hands, but they are what the LORD gave me and will work those hands until my arthritis deems them crippled. My point here is this; working hard and providing for your family is commanded by our LORD, so is giving to help the needy, without the tongue wagging of its great goodness in the sight of men. Oh how we love to parade our good works, do we not? My sorry soul does this at times when needing to compete with the next church goer who brags what a great giver/do gooder are they. In my personal Bible study, this competitive spiritual competition is literally called ‘witchcraft’ of which no human soul is above this. We all struggle and fall short, I do much of the time and am called out on this when I am in literally in God’s Word. His Holiness is magnified by His Word.
My point is this; I personally do not desire to receive monetary crumbs from my government, for I am called to earn a living. This is defined as capitalism by some, but more importantly are the Holy Scriptures admonishing man to provide a living for his family…..extended family and in some cases neighbors. I do not desire to have an oppressive government rule over me as in Jesus’ day, but in the natural, it may come to that here in America per the book of Revelation.
continued ranting……
LikeLike
Folks, I lost my healthcare this year, ending December 31st. I didn’t hear of any preacher man or woman prophecying into my life that this would happen. My family was dropped like a hot potato after paying volumes of mammon into a so called reputable private insurance company for years and years and years. We have been blessed to have relatively good health and are grateful to our LORD for that, however, now that our aging bodies are showing signs of decay, we will be more in need of good, wise healthcare in the future. So our insurance company did not drop us do to pre-existing conditions, it dropped us because of the changes made by Obamacare. I know, the truth hurts those of us who have honestly tried to live in such as way, realizing fully that our bodies are the literal “temple” of God, the Holy Spirit.
And to add insult to injury, when I share this with those who proclaim to be believers and followers of Jesus, the Christ, I am met with a loud “silence.” There is no, “Wow, that is just terrible,” or “I am so sorry that this administration did this to you,” or “that is so unfair, I don’t know what to say,” or even a “Man, that’s a bummer, I will pray for you.”
No, church folks who claim to be Christians are silent. And sometimes I believe they are sickened and depraved, and are actually happy that I/my family is experiencing hardship and injustice. I have been a chartered, papered member of a church who was primarily Democrat, that hated that fact we are experiencing success, growth, and most importantly, growth in Jesus Christ, apart from their interference. Maybe I am expecting too much from Christians per the Word of God, or perhaps this woman is the biggest fool.
So I voted, not because of what the religious right says; I’ve had enough of their jibberish, or because of what the religious left says; more jibberish. I voted because this current administration punished me and took away my private healthcare. I chose not to vote in the last two elections because I felt there were no candidates to vote for, the character of political candidates has much to be desired.
Bottom line, I don’t want our government lording it over my life any more than I desire to have religious leadership who doesn’t truly care about the condition of my soul/faith/family life, etc., becoming meddling busy bodies trying to destroy what our LORD is trying to do in my life. I know that we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling per Philippians and this is what many of us are trying to do. There is also more instruction/wisdom to be garnered from Chapter 2:
“Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain nor labored in vain.” Philippians 2:14-16
And a happy ending….we have been accepted by a Christian healthcare organization that practices the New Testament Ekklesia model and I pray that it will strengthen my family spiritually as well as guard us naturally. All authority still belongs to Jesus per Matthew 28 and will continue to follow Him, humbled and exalted is HE.
LikeLike
And thank-you Mark, from my heart. Appreciate your reasoning.
LikeLike