Experts on the dynamics of abuse strongly recommend separate, individual counseling for abuser and victim, not couples counseling. If abusers refuse to work through individual counseling on their personal issues, that creates a stumbling block to relational reconciliation.
This blog post was written by Julie Anne Smith, with contributions by Brad Sargent. The post was reviewed by Naghmeh Abedini.
Key Points:
- Counselors with expertise on dynamics of abuse recommend individual counseling – for both the husband and wife – not couples counseling. Couples counseling implies the abuse is equally both partners’ fault, when this type of abuse is definitely more one-sided. It will never be “fixed” if the abuser does not address the personal problem first, and couples counseling gives the abuser multiple opportunities to manipulate the situation and triangulate – get the counselor to side with him against the victim.
- On Valentine’s Day, Saeed Abedini sent a Facebook message about love to his supporters, thanking them for their love, prayers, and encouragement. But, in his post, he also implied that his wife, Naghmeh, is blocking progress in their relationship by not joining him in couples counseling. The context and the language give an example of manipulating the situation to get public opinion to side with him.
- Franklin Graham, who has acted as an advocate/promoter for Saeed Abedini since his release, has no known expertise on the dynamics of abuse, yet has pressured Saeed and Naghmeh Abedini toward couples counseling.
* * * * * * *
Yesterday, Pastor Saeed Abedini, who was recently released from an Iranian prison, posted the following note as his first Facebook post in 4 years, thanking his many supporters:
Warm Greetings Dear Saints!
We Love because He first Loved us. (1John 4:19)
This is my first post on Facebook after 4 long years of imprisonment. I see there is a LOVE story between us as I went through hardship of imprisonment by you showing your support with sending hundreds & thousands of letters of encouragement and LOVE to the prison. 1000’s of cities and countries and locations gathering for pray vigils, sending gifts to my wife and children, etc.. .
You created a LOVE story that even Muslims in Iran talked about.
My beloved sisters and brothers, I want you to know how much I LOVE you and how much Your prayers and support changed my situation and how much I am thankful for your heart and Care.
I am grateful for marriage counselors who have been helping me but my wife’s relationship with me is not good at this point, so we need prayer that she joins this counseling process with us.
Free By Christ For Christ
Saeed Abedini
On his post, he included pictures of himself and his beautiful children, including this one:
Some will look at the Facebook note and pictures and will:
- Thank God for his release.
- Thank God that Saeed is back together with his children again.
- Be thankful that they were in consistent prayer for the Abedini family all these years.
- Notice Naghmeh’s absence from the pictures.
- Be moved to pray for Naghmeh, that she would change her heart and seek marriage counseling.
In less than 24 hours since his post went up on Valentine’s Day – February 14, 2016 – at 7:38 pm, there have already been over 3,500 “likes,” 425 shares, and 750 comments. Many who reached out to Saeed left supportive comments, encouraging him with their words, and saying they were praying for Saeed, for his marriage, for his family. However, a few commenters have been critical of Naghmeh directly, and some have attempted to shut down any commenters who bring up the Saeed’s issue abuse, primarily through “sin-leveling.”
You can read those for yourself to see how they are responding overall to him, to her, to them. Meanwhile, let’s consider his post more closely. I’ve seen Saeed’s language and approach before. It’s typical flowery manipulative abuser language meant to draw people to his side. Notice the context, plus what he puts there, what he doesn’t mention, and what is missing:
- The pictures of Saeed and his children, with Naghmeh obviously missing tugs at people’s heartstrings knowing that this family is not whole.
- There could be no better day to choose than Valentines Day to solicit support for his cause. People will notice the contrast in the day when most people are celebrating love, he is soliciting support by revealing that Naghmeh is dropping the ball on marriage counseling.
- A healthy pastor with no vindictive agenda would have briefly said, “Pray for my family.” But instead, Saeed blames his wife under the guise of soliciting prayers for the “marital” problems. For instance, note how he says that “my wife’s relationship with me is not good” – not, “my relationship with my wife is not good” or even “our relationship is not good.” Even from just that one twist of a sentence, how easy is it now for Saeed’s supporters to see Naghmeh as the stumbling block to reconciliation, and certainly not Saeed?
- These words are not words of humility and honesty. They are manipulative words meant to draw people into Saeed’s sad plight. Even if we were to assume that the problem is a marital issue, an honest response would be one where he admits his failures as well. We see none of that.
- A husband interested in saving his marriage would never put his wife under the proverbial bus by publicly disclosing her faults … ever. He would protect her at all costs and try to win her back.
* * * * * * *
It’s important to note that there is more going on here than just Saeed and Naghmeh. Their relationship has been …. crowded. Prior to Saeed’s public notice on Facebook, Franklin Graham has been a primary mouthpiece for Saeed since his release. Saeed flew home to the US on Graham’s private plane, and the first pictures of him are with Franklin Graham. Saeed was immediately whisked off to the Billy Graham Training Center in North Carolina. Saeed’s first interview after his release was with Graham’s friend, Greta VanSusteran.
Franklin Graham inserted himself directly into the heart of the Saeed Abedini story, and we all heard about the Abedini family, filtered through his personal perspective – that Saeed and Naghmeh have a troubled marriage and need counseling. Here is what Franklin Graham posted on his Facebook page days after Saeed’s release:
While we rejoice at his new freedom, we now lift him and his wife Naghmeh to the Lord for healing in their marriage. Other than God, no one knows the details and the truth of what has happened between Saeed and Naghmeh except them. There’s an old saying that there are at least two sides to every story. I can tell one thing for sure—not everything that has been reported in the media is true.
As a minister of the Gospel, I have tried to be a friend to both and to assist them in getting Saeed home and in getting access to any help that they may need. Clearly, there is a great need for prayer for their relationship and their family. God has answered prayer by bringing about Saeed’s release from prison, and now, Satan would like nothing more than to continue to destroy their lives. It is my prayer that this will not happen. (Source)
More about Franklin Graham’s prominent role in a moment.
Returning to Saeed’s Facebook post, I found his comment, “we need prayer that she joins this counseling process with us,” conflicting with the public messages Naghmeh has reported. I have read nothing about Naghmeh not wanting to have the marriage restored. Nor have I read anything about Naghmeh not wanting to seek counseling, so I contacted Naghmeh.
After hearing from Naghmeh, I believe Saeed is misleading people with his comments, and in turn, is turning people away from Naghmeh and painting her to be the primary problem.
Naghmeh confirmed to me that she has indeed been and is currently seeking individual counseling. She gave me the name of her counselors (which will remain private). She also mentioned another well-known therapist/author with whom she has been in touch for additional counsel. Naghmeh has also stated publicly that her pastor, Bob Caldwell, is aware of Saeed’s abuse and of the appropriate boundaries she has sought to put in place.
* * * * * * *
Now, some may wonder why Naghmeh is only seeking private counseling versus marital counseling. Keep in mind that a few months ago, Naghmeh revealed that during most of her marriage, she has been the victim of abuse by Saeed. Is couples counseling the best choice of action for a marriage in which there is abuse? Abuse experts are in agreement that couples counseling is not appropriate when there is abuse. The National Domestic Violence Hotline has an article, Why We Don’t Recommend Couples Counseling for Abusive Relationships, and offers further explanation:
In order for couples counseling to be successful, both partners must be willing to take responsibility for their actions and make adjustments to their behavior. Abusive people want all of the power and control in the relationship and will focus on maintaining that imbalance, even if it means continuing unhealthy and hurtful behavior patterns. Many callers to the Hotline have related stories of trying and “failing” at couples counseling because of an abusive partner’s focus on manipulating the sessions to place blame, minimize the abuse, and attempt to win over the therapist to their side. If the therapist tries to hold the abusive partner accountable for these tactics, they will often refuse to attend further sessions and may even forbid their partner to see the “biased” therapist again. The abusive partner may even choose to escalate the abuse because they feel their power and control was threatened.
We can see evidence of this type of control in Saeed’s public comment. He minimized the abuse by never even mentioning this topic and, as mentioned earlier, he also put blame on Naghmeh for not seeking counseling. Saeed displayed common tactics of abusers.
Some may dismiss secular counselors’ views on separating couples when there is abuse. This article, “When NOT to Do Marriage Counseling,” gives a Christian perspective. It is by Winston T. Smith who teaches and counsels at Christian Counseling & Educational Foundation (CCEF). He sees the importance of individual counseling over couples counseling when abuse is present in the relationship:
However, there are situations in which marriage counseling is not the best approach and may actually do more harm than good. Marriage counseling presumes that a couple’s problems are shared and that each spouse is partly responsible for what is happening. But there are situations in which one spouse’s behavior is so destructive (e.g., addictions, abuse) that marital problems are best understood primarily as the result of that behavior, rather than the shared responsibility of both spouses. In these situations, it is best to focus on that individual before addressing the marriage. There are other times when one spouse’s weaknesses, hidden issues, or lack of motivation may limit the effectiveness of marriage counseling. Here again, it may be wise to meet with spouses separately for a season, both to address individual problems and to lay the groundwork for working with the couple together.
Winston T. Smith further explains the character and behavior of abusers:
“[A]buse is a pattern of destructive and dehumanizing words and behaviors that often involves physical battering, intimidation, and attempts to isolate and control. If it becomes clear that abuse is present in a marriage, arrange to see the spouses separately.”
Here is another article you may want to read on the importance of separate counseling: To fix abusive relationships, a counselor must have expertise. The principles in this article are especially important to thinking through the larger context of counseling in this all-too-public relationship. That is because it appears that someone with no understanding of abuse has been pushing for couples counseling: Franklin Graham.
* * * * * * *
Ok, now with regard to my conversation with Naghmeh, I think it is important to note that Saeed has not personally reached out to Naghmeh since he has been back in the US. It has only been through Franklin Graham, on Graham’s initiative, not Saeed’s. It should be noted that the post from Saeed on Facebook was really the first time Naghmeh has seen/heard anything directly from Saeed on the subject.
Franklin Graham has been the one to push “marriage counseling.” Why is that? Franklin Graham has not demonstrated any expertise on abuse issues that I am aware of. He has no business putting himself above this couple and telling them how to solve their issues. Why has he intervened to take a pastoral/oversight role here? Why isn’t he backing away from the situation and allowing Pastor Bob Caldwell, their long-time pastor, to do his job?
Naghmeh had been counseled by her pastor and her counselors that the “abuse must be dealt with first before any marriage counseling can occur.” But that is not the setup Franklin Graham devised. Naghmeh specifically noted that when Saeed came to the US, Franklin Graham first “wanted to put us in a cabin together” at Billy Graham’s training facility, The Cove. Naghmeh declined this offer and only agreed to go if there was counseling, and separate cabins with guards. Graham finally “agreed and picked marriage counselors.”
Naghmeh realized what was going on, and at the last minute changed her mind, knowing she could not go under the conditions Graham had created. She knew that individual counseling had to be first, and this was not the direction Graham’s chosen counselors planned to take. His path was solely couples counseling.
* * * * * * *
In conclusion, I hope that it is clear that Naghmeh has not declined counseling. She has already been seeking appropriate counseling for the specific issue that has destroyed her marriage: abuse by her husband, Saeed. If there is no success in individual counseling for Saeed and Naghmeh, no marital/couples counseling will be beneficial. The horse must come before the cart.
I applaud Naghmeh for seeking wise guidance in her very difficult and public crisis. She could have easily followed the very powerful and influential Franklin Graham, but his way is not the recommended path chosen by those with expertise on the dynamics of abuse. In fact, his way would have enabled delay in addressing the issues involved. His way would have been counterproductive for Saeed and Naghmeh as individuals, and for their marriage relationship.
Spiritual Sounding Board 
Wait a minute. In his previous statement he said:
He already can’t stick with his “intentions.” Why should we believe him on anything else?
LikeLiked by 13 people
Good catch there, BTDT!
LikeLike
Has anyone ever investigated Franklin’s own marriage?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Naghmeh is showing quite a bit of wisdom here. Good for her!
LikeLiked by 9 people
She really is, Connie!
LikeLiked by 2 people
That thread did exactly what it was meant to do, garner sympathy and more support for Saeed. The couple of times that Naghmeh stepped in and spoke up, she showed that she was needing to do what was safest for her at the moment. Good for you, Naghmeh! We’re behind you!
LikeLiked by 7 people
Julie Anne, is Naghmeh free to divorce at this point? Your thoughts?
LikeLike
That is Naghmeh’s decision and not mine. In general, I believe that if a woman is with a chronic abuser who refuses to get help, he has already abandoned the marriage vows. I believe she is free to divorce. I do not believe God would want a woman to live in fear/pain the rest of her life for the sake of the institution of marriage. To me, that is a form of idolatry. God loves people above institutions. Additionally, if the marriage is supposed to be a picture of how Christ loves the church, what kind of picture is an abusive marriage portraying to the watching world? To say that God wants her to remain with an abuser paints God out to be an abuser. That conflicts with everything I read in scripture about how God protects and defends the defenseless. I like to look at the whole Bible, not a couple of select verses on marriage/divorce.
LikeLiked by 13 people
We at ACFJ have worked with abuse victims in the church for going on 5 years now. We have written books, interviewed hundreds of victims, identified many abusers. But have we heard a word from Franklin Graham asking for advice about this situation. Nope. Nothing. He doesn’t even belong in kindergarten when it comes to the ABC’s of the nature and mentality of abusers. Stop it Franklin. Drop it. Go away. You’ve been duped by evil.
LikeLiked by 10 people
Thank you, Pastor Jeff Crippen, for chiming in. For those who are new to the blog or new to understanding church response to domestic violence, I would encourage you to visit Jeff Crippen and Barbara Robert’s blog, A Cry for Justice: http://cryingoutforjustice.wordpress.com/
LikeLiked by 1 person
Of course, given Matthew 7:1-5 and Luke 6:37–42, it is always easier to find fault with others than it is to examine and repair our own lives.
LikeLike
What makes Franklin Graham such an expert in marital issues and abuse? I hate how some believers think they know all the answers, because they have God and Biblical teaching on their side. They take several verses and apply them to every situation they encounter.
Can Franklin be a consultant on a surgical procedure? Or lead a team of scientists in building a bomb? Maybe he should advise our government on foreign policy. I am sure he has the correct answer in his book.
I am not disparaging the Bible, but the misapplication of Gospel principals paired with a lack of wisdom and discernment can cause a hugh mess!
LikeLiked by 4 people
Such a good post, Julie Anne!
“Other than God, no one knows the details and the truth of what has happened between Saeed and Naghmeh except them. There’s an old saying that there are at least two sides to every story. I can tell one thing for sure—not everything that has been reported in the media is true.”
Silly, abusive, statement. Only God knows, but Franklin knows too? Franklin Graham can tell one for sure—some things are true, or not true. What is he talking about that is not true? Wow- he sure wants to plant little seeds of doubt, doesn’t he?
I think Franklin Graham better stick to his obsession with ridding America of gay marriage, making America a Christian nation “again,” having political prayer rallies, posting about political prayer rallies on his FB page, showing pictures of him leading prayer at his political prayer rallies on his FB page, twisting 2 Chron 7:14 to be about America, and every other social issue/cause/publicity stunt of the day he can insert himself into so he can keep his FB filled with all his good work$ to be $een by all.
LikeLiked by 6 people
70 % of all divorces in the United States, these days, are initiated by the wives.
LikeLike
Seneca – – Please stay on topic. This post doesn’t even mention divorce.
LikeLike
Diane, your keyboard is sure acting up. $$$ showing up in strange places.
LikeLiked by 1 person
“This post doesn’t even mention divorce.”
Perhaps not. Nonetheless, it dances around the issue like a Gillie Callum champion.
LikeLike
“What makes Franklin Graham such an expert in marital issues and abuse?”
Inherited position and money.
LikeLike
““This post doesn’t even mention divorce.”
Perhaps not. Nonetheless, it dances around the issue like a Gillie Callum champion.”
Are you and Seneca the same person?
LikeLike
Julie Anne, I was wanting to ask a question or two about Griggs’ post above (maybe make a comment) and/or give a link or two that is a bit related, but if you feel it gets things too far off track, I will try to keep silent.
LikeLike
Please go ahead, Daisy. You’ve been commenting here long enough – and I think you know where I’m coming from. I’ll pipe in if I think things are getting off track. 🙂
LikeLike
There is SO much of Nagmeh’s story and pain that mimics my own journey to freedom.
This particular line drawn from what Saeed’s supporters are saying nearly sent me over the edge: “Be moved to pray for Naghmeh, that she would change her heart and seek marriage counseling.” It is particularly triggering because it is verbatim to what I heard coming from my 5yr old’s mouth during our nightly prayers. He said he and dad were praying “that mama would change her mind” or “that God would change mama’s heart.” And this…after I had filed for divorce and clearly the separation was permanent.
There are SO many things wrong with this particular tactic being delivered through a child I cannot even begin to delve into all the details. I will elucidate these two points: besides setting up a child’s heart to be broken – he is also destroying a God relationship through prayerful expectation that is sure to be denied. Just. Wow.
By the way, one year ago today I filed for divorce from my abuser/manipulator. And now, I am free – getting ready to (hopefully) purchase my own home.
Much love and grace to you, Nagmeh. You are sitting in the seat of wisdom. Proud of you and praying from here.
LikeLiked by 6 people
To address the page’s main topic: from everything I’ve read by experts on issues of abuse, couples counseling will not work in abusive marriages.
Abuse is not a relationship conflict, as is sometimes assumed by a lot of people (Christians especially).
A lot of marital counselors will try to hold the victim equally or partially responsible for any conflicts, which is totally inappropriate in the case of abuse. Abuse is 100% the abuser’s responsibility, regardless of what the victim was or is doing or not doing. The abuser is the key, not the target.
So, Graham encouraging couples counseling for this marriage (where there is/was abuse) wouldn’t be helpful.
LikeLiked by 7 people
Okay, Julie Anne. I can see how Griggs can sidetrack everything easily. I don’t want to play into that.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Julie Anne, I do get a whiff of the coming divorce. With divorce comes the [legal] freedom to remarry. I wish they wouldn’t do that but…..’tis America.
LikeLike
Thank you for sharing, Charis. I hope your comment here gives hope for those who have been held in bondage by someone who is attempting to destroy their life. You clearly articulate that the abuse is not just limited to wives, but to their children as well as they are used as pawns. What your ex has done is spiritually/emotionally abuse your child. I hope that in time your son will recover and have a clearer understanding of what happened in his home and also in his relationship with God.
LikeLiked by 2 people
senecagriggs:
I don’t know if you saw on my last post to you or not (on an older thread), but I’m not a left winger, a Democrat, a feminist, or a social justice warrior.
I am actually right wing, a social conservative, and have voted Republican my whole life, and I don’t usually agree with left wingers on a lot of topics.
Here’s your post:
senecagriggs said,
And? So?
What conclusions do you want anyone here to draw from this?
Specifically, what conclusions are we to draw from this in light of the Saeed and Naghmeh situation? You’ve mentioned it for some reason, but for what, I am not sure.
If it were flipped and 70% of MEN were the ones initiating divorces in the United States, do you think I should make blanket assumptions about the male gender based on that?
Maybe women initiating divorce is a good thing.
In the past, when divorce was more difficult to obtain, women often had to stay stuck in abusive marriages. Now they don’t generally have to, assuming they have some safe place to stay or have their own income to rely on.
That 70% of women are initiating divorces may be more of an insight in how 70% of husbands are failing to meet their wife’s needs.
Most American women are socialized from young ages to always put other people’s needs and wants ahead of their own, especially in marriage, where we ladies are brainwashed from our youth to believe that the husband comes first.
We get hit with this indoctrination doubly so if raised in a gender complementarian Christian household. American men do not get indoctrinated at all, or nearly as much, in this stuff as females do.
Here’s a page that gives insight into why women are usually the first to break off a relationship:
_Why don’t some men realise it’s over until it’s too late?_ (hosted on Daily Life’s site)
I would really encourage folks to click that link and read the whole thing, but I will put in an excerpt or two here:
I do think women are more in tune with their own feelings than men are conditioned to be, but abut the “needs” part, I don’t know.
Women are conditioned to “stuff their needs down” so much to meet other people’s needs that they often lose touch of their own. But for the most part, I agree with the content on that page.
LikeLiked by 2 people
senecagriggs said,
“Julie Anne, I do get a whiff of the coming divorce. With divorce comes the [legal] freedom to remarry. I wish they wouldn’t do that but…..’tis America.”
Wait. Are you one of those “she only wants a divorce because she has another man waiting in the wings, she is an adulterer” conspiracy theorists?
And so what if she does get a divorce or wants one?
Who in their right mind would want to stay in a loveless marriage where they are being demeaned and/or beaten daily, weekly, or monthly?
LikeLiked by 7 people
Divorce rate on second marriages higher than in first. It’s painful
LikeLike
I’m not sure where you are getting that whiff from. I’ve never seen any indication from Naghmeh that she has considered divorce. I’ve only seen her discuss her hopes for restoration.
LikeLiked by 2 people
If you had seen Naghmeh use the word divorce once, it might be worth discussing. I have scoured her posts and just haven’t seen it. Please drop it, Seneca.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Why I wonder why Griggs keeps bringing this up:
As I was just saying above, so what if she does want a divorce? She a grown adult and has the right to live life as she pleases.
When Christians (usually seems to be men) on the Naghmeh threads on this site or others get into this whole thing about “I bet she wants a divorce!!,” I see it as another form of oppression against women – and another way people of gender complementarian bent are infantilizing adult women and trying to control them.
Naghmeh is an adult who can make whatever choices she wants, even if the Seneca Griggs of the world don’t like it.
The world isn’t going to end if she (or another woman) gets a divorce. The Bible says nowhere that divorce is the one greatest sin, and God will not forgive it.
LikeLiked by 4 people
About the remarriage thing. I saw an article months ago that says more and more people who are divorcing are choosing to NOT to remarry.
This is from 2013:
Interest in remarriage is on the wane
Snippet:
I also saw another article months back, IIRC, that says something like more and more people ages 50 and older are going through first time divorces.
These are people who married their spouse at age 25 or 35 but divorcing that spouse when they get to their 50s or older.
Also, IIRC, that same article says these first time 50+ year old divorcees have zero interest in marrying again. They tried marriage once and don’t want to try it again.
LikeLiked by 1 person
“Be moved to pray for Naghmeh, that she would change her heart and seek marriage counseling.”
In addition to being a conscienceless attempt at shaming and guilt tripping, this is an attempt to recruit God to the end that He might manipulate another person to subjugate themselves to one’s own selfish will. It proceeds from a sense of entitlement. It’s objective is power and control. It is abuse. It is an attempt to enlist God Himself as a co-abuser. It is satanic. Or so it appears to me.
Well, two can play this game. Be moved to pray for Saeed to be so utterly broken that he cannot but help to see his fault, with confession ripening into fruit of true repentance. Trouble is, for me to pray such a prayer would violate the Golden Rule.
LikeLiked by 4 people
“Franklin Graham has been the one to push “marriage counseling.” Why is that? Franklin Graham has not demonstrated any expertise on abuse issues that I am aware of. He has no business putting himself above this couple and telling them how to solve their issues. Why has he intervened to take a pastoral/oversight role here? Why isn’t he backing away from the situation and allowing Pastor Bob Caldwell, their long-time pastor, to do his job?”
Why? Because it was and is political. Because he’s trying to save face by “proving” Nagmeh is hard-hearted, stubborn, and rebellious. Because he wants people to think it’s her fault, and not that of “the system”; not patriarchy, not the church, not complementarianism, not old time religion, not Evangelicalism.
He’s a pharisee trying to protect religion and his status. If it had to do with God, Graham would be praising Him for the revelation of “things done in the darkness” that have been brought to light, where such things can be dealt with and hopefully healed (I don’t necessarily mean a reconciled marriage). Instead, Graham blames “Satan”, revealing the idolatry of marriage and religion over truth.
LikeLiked by 4 people
Oops, my previous comment was in response to a statement I had incorrectly attributed to Saeed. Nevertheless, I submit that my comment was apt and appropriate with regard to what Saeed is actually said to have said: “[W]e need prayer that she joins this counseling process with us.”
As to Franklin Graham’s conduct, I suggest that God must surely give famous and accomplished men at least one child who will serve as what Paul called his thorn in the flesh.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I’m not sure what Seneca is getting at. Just seems to be randomly flitting about with no real logic. He’s talking about divorce and remarriage and remarriage divorce statistics when this is about none of the above. It is about a woman who has alleged some pretty serious abuse from her husband, it’s about manipulative posts from that husband (and they are undeniably so, and only the most naive and foolish dupe would see them to be anything but), a husband who has generated a criminal record for said abuse.
Seneca, I’ve seen your patter on another forum and you are just as irrational, incomprehensible, unreasonable and lacking in the love of Christ here as elsewhere. Seneca, you need to take a long hard look in the mirror, face God and repent. You sure as heck do not need to be littering social media with more of your nonsequiturs.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I am glad to see the emphasis on the danger of couples’ counseling for abuse. If the goal truly is restoration of marriage, let’s look at what works, not what keeps the cycle going. It truly only perpetuates the abuse and may even teach an abuser to better fake his/her way through counseling and cause the abused person to sink further into hopelessness that anything will change.
I also am glad it was stated that the counselor for individual counseling after abuse should be an expert in that as well. Counselors come in many different skill sets and it’s important to have one who understands the dynamics and has worked with the issue before.
I wish Naghmeh the best as she copes with this difficult and complicated situation.
LikeLiked by 3 people
hahaha
“I think Franklin Graham better stick to his obsession with ridding America of gay marriage, making America a Christian nation “again,” having political prayer rallies, posting about political prayer rallies on his FB page, showing pictures of him leading prayer at his political prayer rallies on his FB page, twisting 2 Chron 7:14 to be about America, and every other social issue/cause/publicity stunt of the day he can insert himself into so he can keep his FB filled with all his good work$ to be $een by all”.
Sounds like something Jesus would have said to the you know who.
LikeLike
“70 % of all divorces in the United States, these days, are initiated by the wives”.
Seneca,
What point are you trying to make?
If that stat is genuine all it does it show that the USA has support networks in place to facilitate wives leaving crap marriages.
Hurrah for the USA.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I have put this on Saeed’s Facebook post:
LikeLike
Yikes JA, delete this comment I just made. I gave the link to a comment I’d made on Saeed’s FB page, but it didn ‘t work as I thought it would.
LikeLike
I just put this comment on Saeed’s FB page:
Not all that long ago, Saeed stated: “It is not my intention to speak further publicly—through social media or any other channels—at least until I believe we have made significant progress in private.” Clearly Saeed, you have not stuck to this intention. A DOUBLE-MINDED man is unstable in all his ways.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Also, about 8 hours ago, I saved Saeed’s FB post and the 817 comments which at that time had been made on it, to the Wayback Machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.facebook.com/PastorSaeedAbedini/posts/10206091118176596?pnref=story
LikeLiked by 1 person
None of Naghmeh’s public statements so far indicate that she is thinking of divorcing Saeed.
I believe that any victim of domestic abuse is at liberty to divorce her abuser. (see link below for my reasoning)
My observation (and social science research backs this up) is that Christian victims of domestic abuse tend to stay in the abusive marriage LONGER than non-Christian victims, and they tend to be very reluctant to contemplate the option of divorce.
My observation is that Christian victims of domestic abuse wait and hope and give yet another chance for the abuser to show that his professions of repentance and change really produce fruit ‚ and Christians do this for much longer than non-Christian victims do.
My observation (all my observations are based on years of reading and hearing stories from hundreds of Christian victim/survivors) is that Christian victims are very scared about getting divorced from their abusers, because they do not want to displease God and they think that divorce always displeases God.
I am convinced that divorce does not always displease God. I am convinced that in many case (e.g. cases of domestic abuse) God is PLEASED when the abuse victim divorces the abuse. He is pleased because the divorce allows the victim and hopefully also the kids to be relatively free of the abuser’s ongoing abuse. Abuse does not always end with divorce: abusers are crafty at using tactics to continue to abuser their ex-es. Especially if there are kids involved. (see second link below)
I am convinced that Scripture gives victims of domestic abuse not only the liberty to divorce their abusers, but the liberty to REMARRY, so long as they marry in the Lord. (see third link below)
I am convinced that domestic abusers are NOT Christians, whatever they may profess. Before you quibble with me on this, please go to cryingoutforjustice.com and read our Definition of Domestic Abuse in the sidebar.
Link one: http://cryingoutforjustice.com/2014/02/19/biblical-divorce-for-abuse-explained-in-a-nutshell/
Link two: http://cryingoutforjustice.com/2013/10/24/god-hates-divorce-not-always/
Link three: http://cryingoutforjustice.com/2015/04/01/remarriage-after-divorcing-an-abuser-in-a-nutshell/
LikeLiked by 2 people
My last comment about this; their marriage situation appears to be going down a bad path. This reminds me of the Tony Jones marriage scenario where it’s being fought out on blogs and other social media. Nobody wins – nobody.
Finally, let us not celebrate divorce when God says He hates divorce. We should hate it too.
LikeLike
“Are you and Seneca the same person?”
No. The only person of that name with whom I am familiar died almost 1,900 years before I was born!
LikeLike
Seneca,
There are many who would say that God does not hate divorce.
And that the verse in Malachi 2:16 is a mistranslation.
Like the many other mistranslations within the idol we call The Word which is not The Real Word.
LikeLike
To play devil’s advocate, is it possible Franklin Graham:
1) Believes that the only person an aggrieved spouse can work out the problems is the other partner?
2) Cannot engage in individual counseling because of the Billy Graham Rule prohibiting male pastors from being alone with non-spousal females?
LikeLike
O My Goodness–yes, yes yes!
LikeLike
“Diane, your keyboard is sure acting up. $$$ showing up in strange places.”
LOL Funny how that happens.
LikeLike
When I see that picture of him holding his beautiful children and using it in the kind of FB post he made, which is: husband = good father, loving father, happy kids with happy father who need a happy mother in the picture, and wife = someone whose “relationship is not good with me at this point,” needs prayer and needs to join “us” in counseling. Is the “us” the he AND the kids? Pimping out his kids to guilt her into counseling sure isn’t abusive, is it? GAG. Beware.
I see a politician pimping out his young kids on stage to get votes.
I imagine she sees through these manipulations and good for her for doing so.
LikeLiked by 2 people
“Finally, let us not celebrate divorce when God says He hates divorce. We should hate it too.”
Please, everyone, don’t feed Seneca. It will just go to his/her thighs.
LikeLiked by 5 people
Reblogged this on Remind Me Who I Am and commented:
“Ok, now with regard to my conversation with Naghmeh, I think it is important to note that Saeed has not personally reached out to Naghmeh since he has been back in the US. It has only been through Franklin Graham, on Graham’s initiative, not Saeed’s. It should be noted that the post from Saeed on Facebook was really the first time Naghmeh has seen/heard anything directly from Saeed on the subject.”
LikeLike
senecagriggs said,
70 % of all divorces in the United States, these days, are initiated by the wives.
My divorce attorney said that very thing 3 years ago. She also said that many women that came into her office “WERE TOLD BY THERE HUSBANDS TO FILE”. The Stepford Wife was submissively doing what her husband said to do.
If destructive marriages are being fought out on blogs, perhaps people like Saeed and Franklin Graham should not start those fights by putting the Mrs on the spot and try to force her into an unhealthy approach to dealing with the issues. If he had gone to the pastor of his own church, or sought counseling from a good private source that could help him to change how he responded to Naghmeh and repented they might have a chance of reconciliation, but the way he has gone about it is heaping coal on his head. He has added blame shifting to his repertoire of abuse. What he is doing has NOTHING to do with following Jesus. Jesus did not treat women and children this way. Saeed is using his children for his own gain.
Saeed hasn’t even seen Naghmeh!!! Don’t you find that just a bit suspect? He is attacking her without hearing directly from her. I can’t even tell you how many people I have heard that had prayed for his release. I think I’m going to start praying that he go back.
LikeLiked by 2 people
“And that the verse in Malachi 2:16 is a mistranslation.”
Yes, even ESV, that favorite translation of complementarians everywhere, rejects the “God hates divorce” translation. Rather, we read:
“For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her, says the LORD, the God of Israel, covers his garment with violence, says the LORD of hosts. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and do not be faithless.” (Malachi 2:16 ESV)
What is clear from this verse is that what God judges is the failure of love and the faithlessness that is tantamount to–that is the actual definition of–divorce. What God hates is that putting away of one’s spouse that severs the marital union, with or without the issuance of an official certificate or decree that legally frees the wronged spouse from the unloving and faithless spouse. In fact, God REQUIRED that that the unloving, faithless, spouse free his mate by giving her a certificate of divorce, i.e. a legally binding declaration that the wronged spouse was free from the evildoer–and also free to marry another. Deuteronomy 24:1, KJV.
Given the emphasis on guarding one’s self in spirit lest faithlessness result, I would go so far as to say that a husband who views pornography has already divorced his wife in the severing-the-marital-relationship sense that God hates. Assuming Saeed’s continuing use of pornography, there is no longer a marriage to save, although we may hold out hope for true repentance permitting the reestablishment, at Naghmeh’s sole option, of an already-dead marriage.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Continuing to pray for this family and for Naghmeh! She has shown such grace and courage that is bigger than any human could ever show. God has and continues to shine through her. Continuing to rejoice the Saeed is free and didn’t die in prison. That was an answer to prayer.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Fortunately, God does not always answer our prayers in the way that we ask them; rather, He answers them in accordance to His will.
Therefore, even though many across the country are praying in the way that Saeed has requested, my prayer is that God will answer them in such a way that: a. brings Him glory, and; b. is in Naghmeh’s (and the children’s) best interest, which is NOT for Saeed to continue his patterns of abuse and denial but rather for him to be honest and genuinely repent.
LikeLiked by 1 person
While your article has some interesting point of views I would charge that this is a deeply personal and PRIVATE matter that should be left between the two of them. Both of them have chosen to air things publicly that only exacerbate a highly emotional situation. Articles like these only fan the flame. PLEASE pray for them and then leave it at the foot of the cross!
LikeLike
senecagriggs said,
Their marriage started going down a bad path the very moment Saeed started abusing Naghmeh.
-Not when she started wanting counseling for herself. Not when or if she began protecting herself or wanting emotional distance from him, but when he started abusing her.
senecagriggs said,
Nobody is “celebrating” divorce but recognizing it can be a valid, much needed escape method for people who are in abusive marriages and who need to get out.
Barbara Roberts could address the “God hates divorce” line better than I could.
Check this information out, from a blog where she contributes, where she and her co-blogger discuss that topic:
_Does God Hate Divorce?_
I distinctly get the impression that the institution of marriage and keeping it together no matter the cost is more important to you than the safety and well-being of the wife who is being abused in that marriage – which is very warped, Griggs.
I also get the distinct impression that you would no doubt tell a woman being abused in a marriage to stay in the marriage, and let me guess, you’d issue the same moldy oldy, lame advice to her, that doesn’t work:
“Just submit to him more, my dear, wear sexy nightgowns each night, and pray for him and your marriage!”
Am I right? And you’d maybe toss in comments like, “Remember, abused wife, God hates divorce!” to shame her into staying with the punk longer?
That type of advice has been given to abused Christian wives for eons by pastors and churches, and it doesn’t resolve things, but only enables the abuse to continue.
There will be no marriage in heaven, by the way. God does not place as much importance on marriage as you do.
Matthew 22:30:
Matthew 10:37:
As you can see from such passages, Jesus did not place a premium on the nuclear family or marriage near as much as present day Christians do. Jesus had bigger things in mind.
(continued in Part 2)
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thank you for your TRUE support for the abused. Abuse comes in many forms, and in many types of relationships. Until the abused begins to recognize the sickness in their relationship, nothing will change. But even recognition of abuse us “used against” the victim.
Those of us who’ve experienced this warping of reality are really the only ones with “eyes wide open”.
LikeLiked by 1 person
(Part 2)
senecagriggs said,
And yet here you are piling on, adding your own views and thoughts on to the topic.
Why is it okay for you to discuss this on social media and blogs but not those who hold opposing views?
I don’t know if I’d agree that publicly airing this doesn’t help anyone.
If seeing some of us here on the side of the abused spouse helps even one other abused spouse out there who is lurking and reading us-
If it convinces her (or him) that she (or he) does NOT deserve to be treated poorly (abusers often make their targets feel as though they DESERVE the abuse), if it convinces that victim that she (or he) does not have to stay in such a sham of a marriage – somebody wins.
I’d also say that Julie McMahon probably felt some relief over having her story told on various blogs; until then, up until that one guy and W-W blog carried her story, she was being ignored: various celebrity pastors she went to over the phone blew her off.
It was the garden variety peon posters on blogs who took Julie seriously and gave her emotional support, and some tossed some funds to her via her GoFundMe page to help pay for legal expenses.
I think she likely got some validation and emotional relief from the support she got from the general public, and that probably felt like a breath of fresh air after having been marginalized or turned away coldly by Weber, RHE, and the others she approached for help.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Barbara Roberts said
I agree. I think women in general are socialized to be super forgiving and put up with abuse repeatedly – Christian women get hit with this even more so, it seems – so they stay in abusive relationships much longer than they should.
I have a book by a – I think a psychologist – I don’t know if she is a Christian – but she’s been seeing patients for years. She has an entire chapter of her book advising women to give up their tendency to keep giving abusers and users chance after chance.
She tells women, ‘stop giving people who mistreat you second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, etc chances!’
She then had some case studies in the chapter chock full of examples of women who kept forgiving the same louse husband or boyfriend over and over. None of these women found peace until they dumped the jerk.
These women had to fight their deeply ingrained female habit (put there by cultural messages, churches, parents) to keep issuing an olive branch and extending chances to the guy over and over. (And in some of the instances, it was a church preacher who encouraged the wives to give the creep husband another chance and another…)
I also have a book by two Christians, one is a psychologist, who spend a chapter or two telling Christian women to stop wasting their time, talent, and energy on people who treat them like dirt, who use them, or who don’t appreciate them.
Even Jesus said not to toss your pearls before swine, but Christian women are heavily propagandized by gender complementarian pastors and churches to do that very thing towards people who would use or abuse them.
You can forgive someone – but that does not mean you have to give them another chance, associate with them, be their friend, keep loaning them money, or hang out with them. Or stay married to them. Or keep dating them.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Georgia, Saeed has been elevated to hero status for years. People are still defending him. He is a fraud and the world is watching. The world needs to see Christians identify and appropriately discuss abuse among its ranks.
Not only that, Saeed represents the many abusers who are sitting in pews week after week pretending they are godly. It’s important for women to see godly women responding appropriately to abuse, protecting themselves, their children, and receiving counsel.
LikeLiked by 8 people
Julie Anne, regarding your post of FEBRUARY 16, 2016 @ 7:45 AM
in reply to Georgia.
Naghmeh’s personal e-mail about the abuse was leaked to the public. The cat was already out of the bag.
I actually think bringing this out in public may be a good thing, if it helps anyone else out there get the courage to leave an abusive marriage, or get some kind of counseling.
I agreed with the rest of your points in that post. How abused spouses see other Christians discuss this in public will impact them. If all they see are the people blaming the victim, or repeating that mantra about “God hates divorce” to shame them to stay, that’s not a good thing.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Julie Anne and others, I have a serious question. Do you believe that it is ever possible for an abuser to truly repent, never abuse again, and be restored in the eyes of their spouse such that the marriage can continue, and indeed, even thrive? Forgive me if I am jumping to conclusions, but I see few, if any, comments or posts addressing this. While I truly believe any type of abuse (physical, verbal, or other) is vile and at times criminal….are we to believe that it is unforgivable? Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
LikeLike
Yes, you are correct, Daisy. Naghmeh did not publicly release this information. But after it was leaked, she was forced to address it.
On another note, I want to be clear that it was after I read Saeed’s Facebook note that I had questions about how he framed his “pray for Naghmeh” bit – that she was refusing to seek couples counseling.
She had always said that the goal was restoration of their marriage, and so I reached out to her and asked her if she was in counseling. When she confirmed that she indeed was, I asked her if I could share that information publicly because Saeed’s public message put blame on her and I thought it was important for the public to know that his version of the story is a bit deceptive.
Because this case is so public, I asked Naghmeh if she would look over the article for accuracy – for her sake and mine – because accuracy is important to me.
LikeLiked by 3 people
I would also encourage you to leave this at the Foot of the Cross and not participate in the media frenzy on this matter. I agree with you that bringing to light the severity and seriousness of abuse in marriage (both female and male), is a good thing. Educating people, without using causing further pain to real lives and names, is a much better way to go… granted it doesn’t give YOU the notoriety you may be looking for, but I’m pretty certain that this is not what your ultimate motive is here. I personally will be unfollowing all your FB post and blogs, as I find it is much easier to pray for this situation without all the biases being put forth by social media.
LikeLike
It is not causing further pain to real lives and names if you are sharing the truth. Think of it like this. If Saeed’s children read his public comment, they would read it that their mother wasn’t doing anything to keep the marriage intact. They would believing a lie.
Thanks for stopping by, Donna.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@Nana
I absolutely believe it’s possible. That doesn’t mean an abuser can just say “I’m sorry” to have it all over with. There has to be fruit of repentance. But, yes, with God it is possible.
However, since Saeed used his last FB post to get in a little dig at Naghmeh, I don’t believe he’s there yet.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Nana, I’ve read most experts believe abusers will never change. However, I also believe that we have a powerful God. I think it would take something very powerful to wake someone up to the reality of the harm they are causing their family. I personally have never seen this happen and the people I network with, who work with domestic violence ministries, have never seen it (100% said they had never seen an abuser change).
When looking at it from the woman’s point of view, how long should one wait for the very slight possibility that her abuser will change? Some people die waiting. There’s much at stake. What about the children and the harm being done to them by watching the abuse?
LikeLiked by 2 people
Nana,
Forgiveness and reconciliation are not one in the same. An abusive spouse can be forgiven, but that doesn’t mean they should be trusted or the target of the abuse should go back and live as nothing has ever happened. That could escalate the abuse to new heights. In my circumstance the abuse got worse even though I had left. He still leaves things in various places that let me know that he had been at my apartment, work place or even found my car at a restaurant. It has been 3 years. I have seen one too many news segments where after the endangered spouse had a restraining order, had left or both, the abuser walked into their place of employment or home and killed them. I am personally keeping my eyes open.
Forgiveness is choosing not to retaliate. I do not retaliate, but am not going to set myself up for more abuse. I think in Naghmeh’s case, she will be able to accomplish that much better than I did.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Brenda, I am so sorry that this has happened in your life. I cannot even begin to imagine what it must be like. Obviously, there is no repentance on the part of your abuser or he would not continue to attempt to terrorize you. Stay safe, you will be in my prayers.
LikeLike
After your FB post JA, I checked out the Shaperiron posts and I checked out some other threads. What an odd place. It appears they’re going for a vibe of “we are extremely intelligent and so we built this forum for erudite discussion”. The problem is that there’s very little evidence of superior intelligence, knowledge, or use of logic anywhere on the board. There’s nothing wrong with that per se for a forum, but it’s a problem when the people involved are convinced otherwise. My view came primarily from checking out one of the “science” threads which were filled with horrible logic and reasoning, They were presented as if they were amazing and new (they weren’t) and the arguments were applauded for how amazing and deep they were by fellow commenters (along with how stupid the people are they disagree with).
They bring that same “I’m ignorant but I think I know-it-all” sense to the discussion of domestic abuse as well.
Julie Anne, I don’t know how or why you do it.
LikeLike
How about everyone stop writing these pathetic articles about someone else’s business that has nothing to do with you? Their marriage is no one else’s business and this publicity is only making it worse. Seriously, sit down, shut up, and pay attention to your own marriage instead. Their marriage is NONE OF OUR BUSINESS. You’re just spreading division. This article makes me sick!
LikeLike
Donna Lee said,
I’m not sure who this was intended for.
I’m not out for notoriety.
“Daisy” is not even my real name, as I’ve noted on this blog and others before. I’m not making any money off typing posts on blogs.
I am someone who was a Christian at one point who is considering walking away from the faith seeing how so many other “Christians” mishandle abuse cases.
I am sickened at seeing how Christian cultures and churches hose over abuse victims or hurting people (like they did with me). THAT is what motivates me to post here quite a bit.
I disagree with your views on this. This is already a public matter. Franklin Graham and Saeed continue to release posts on social media and/or comments to the media about the marriage and other subjects, which means if they are putting it out there, we have a right to publicly comment.
You find it okay to drop by here and leave comments, as did Seneca Griggs above.
Apparently this “don’t comment on this stuff in public!!” view only applies to people who are concerned about Neghmeh and how the church routinely mishandles domestic abuse situations, but everyone who thinks the church should bury their heads in the sand about it are welcome to post on blogs all day.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ Nana
Domestic abuse expert Lundy Bancroft addresses this point in his book and in some video, which I think I posted here last week.
Bancroft says that abusive men CAN change but more often than not they CHOOSE NOT TO and so they rarely change (all caps for emphasis, not yelling), because abusers benefit from abusing: they control their wives to get benefits.
In an abusive relationship where the wife is the victim, the wife has to meet all the man’s needs, but the man does not have to meet the wife’s needs. The abusive husband has little to no incentive to stop abusing his wife, in other words. Abuse “pays off” for the abuser.
This might be the video where Bancroft discusses your question:
_Lundy Bancroft Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men_
I also read in a book by two Christians (one a psychologist) that Christian abusive husband rarely change either.
The Christian wife will sit around for months or years praying for a magical deliverance by God or for God to instantly cure her husband, but this lady psychologist said in all her years of counseling, she’s never seen a Christian husband stop abusing via prayer or the wife submitting and so on, that change is pretty rare. She tells women in her book they may need to consider getting out of the marriage, IIRC.
LikeLike
@Nana – Hopefully some who have professional expertise in counseling, social work, etc., will continue to chime in on this issue. Here are my thoughts on some of angles related to your questions, coming from my research writing and recovery ministry work over the years.
That would be the plateau of perfection reached, but never 100% achievable. It certainly would take a significant process and intentional efforts along the way. Preferable goal, yes. Possible process, yes. Practically, not very easy and progress may be low and slow. And, as others have mentioned, forgiveness can be extend, but that doesn’t mean trust is automatically earned or restored.
From readings, conversations, and observations through the years, it seems that severe, life-dominating patterns like perpetrating domestic violence, child sexual abuse, and spiritual abuse are very difficult to change. I’ve also seen this with people who display the attitudes and behaviors of the Narcissistic and Antisocial Personality Disorders. All of these individuals still have a choice, are still responsible for their actions, and they can at least “manage” their behaviors.
Theologically, I believe people have a choice about how they deal with temptations and patterns of “besetting sins.” I believe transformation can and does occur. But when people who are deeply wounded make what look like “baby steps” to us who’re looking from the outside in, they may actually be big steps to the person himself or herself from the inside looking out.
One of the difficult things I’ve seen is the relative lack of resources, support groups, etc., for those who do want to change and are pursuing a course of transformation/recovery. But there also seems to be a lack of resources on the prevention side of things, so people don’t end up at risk for developing these life-dominating problems. There’s a lot that could be done … and that’s one reason why survivor blogs are important – they show us the degree of the problems and the types of needs. And it’s why endeavors like this one at G.R.A.C.E. to develop a Child Protection Certification Program are crucial:
So, those are some thoughts about your question …
LikeLiked by 2 people
@BTDT:
Doublethink, Comrade, Doublethink.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@Nuttshell:
Now THAT could get Interesting…
LikeLike
@Ann:
Famous Father Syndrome?
LikeLike
Naghmeh declined this offer and only agreed to go if there were counseling and separate cabins with guards. – Can I lol? – just for some comic relief in a nasty situation. I’ve ‘been’ there but was never able to express myself this eloquently.
LikeLike
@DonnaLee:
Would you also advise those around an anorexic woman who fed her infant nothing but water (because he looked Too Fat) to “leave this at the Foot of the Cross”, “Pray About It”, and “Trust the LOOORD” (actual case — the Christian talk-show host this was phoned into told her to Take Some Action before the kid died).
LikeLike
Great article, Julie! Well done.
LikeLike
Another relevant post on the current situation, from the Captain’s Blog:
http://www.chadestes.com/2016/02/abuse-from-saeed-abedini/
LikeLike
Here are links to previous posts from the Captain’s Blog:
http://www.chadestes.com/2016/01/welcome-home-saeed/
http://www.chadestes.com/2016/02/follow-up-saeed-naghmeh-abedini/
LikeLike
L.,
Perhaps you might want to pass on those words of wisdom to Saeed and Mr. Graham.
LikeLike
Says the person who just publicly added their two cents to the conversation.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Julie Anne, I finally just wrote my own post full of links. This post of yours was at the top of my list in it. Here’s mine: http://watchtheshepherd.blogspot.com/2016/02/nagmeh-abedini-and-responding-to.html
LikeLiked by 1 person
Saeed’s behavior is but one example of why it is the women who do tend to file for divorce. Often in these cases, the husband is either emotionally/physically abusive towards their wife or involved in an affair. These husbands often tell their social network that they want their marriage to work and their wives are being difficult. Meanwhile, these men still continue the behavior that is destroying their marriage. Why? Because they don’t see the need to change, but also don’t want to appear to be the “bad guy”.
Eventually, the wife gets tired of the abuse/neglect/affair and finally files for a separation/divorce. Now the husband can say, “I didn’t want a divorce. It is her fault.” At my age, I have seen this scenario played out time after time. The future ex-husband can come out smelling like a rose even though his abusive/adulterous behavior has never changed.
The ex-husband can tell their church, their kids, their friends, “I wanted things to work out, but she threw in the towel.” Of course they end up marrying their mistress ( if involved in an affair) or carrying on their bad behavior into any future relationship ( in cases of abuse/neglect). No one wins. Least of all the wife and kids.
LikeLiked by 4 people
“What makes Franklin Graham such an expert in marital issues and abuse?”
I wouldn’t trust Franklin Graham any farther than I could throw a Huey helicopter with one arm.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I haven’t had a chance to go through this in depth and read the comments here, but my initial thought is this.
Why does he think he gets to guilt trip his wife about not doing counseling when he is the one she accused of being the abuser? How does this compute? That’s not a statement of love, reconciliation, and understanding. That’s manipulation and grandstanding. That’s a politician’s statement.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Regarding couples counseling, if the problem in abuse is sin–and it always is some violation of 1 Peter 3:7 and such–then would we not assume that the discipleship to overcome that sin would be the same kind of one on one discipleship that Nathan provided for David, that Peter provided for Ananias and Sapphira, and such? I do not think we need to describe the limitations of couples counseling only in terms of abuse situations.
I don’t know exactly what Mr. Abedini’s motivations are here–there are patterns we can heed but I don’t pretend to know his thoughts–but if he values his recovery from his problems, he’s going to pay attention to these principles, I think.
LikeLike
@ Bike Bubba
I’m not sure if I’m understanding your post correctly, but if I am (or hey even if I am getting it wrong, I don’t think this suggestion would hurt)…
Would you please do me a favor and get a copy of the book “Why Does He Do That” by author Lundy Bancroft? You can get a used copy cheap on Amazon .com
You can’t send a wife abuser to a joint counselor or a marriage counselor and expect it to work (or send him to a Christian mentor for “one on one” meetings or accountability).
These guys who verbally or physically abuse their wives have to see a counselor who specializes in abusive men.
I think Julie Anne linked to a page by an organization that deals in domestic violence which explains quite well why you cannot send a couple to marital counseling.
But definitely do get the Bancroft book.
I’ve not read the books by Jeff Crippen about domestic violence, but I’d imagine he explains quite well why this is not just a “sin problem” or something that can be fixed with regular counseling or with a Christian peer.
=”A Cry for Justice: How the Evil of Domestic Abuse Hides in Your Church ” by Jeff Crippen, available on Amazon .com
=_A Cry for Justice: How the Evil of Domestic Abuse Hides in your Church: A Review_
LikeLike
@ Ann said,
I’ve seen this a lot too, in stories I’ve read by abused women online, who divorced their husbands.
Related to that to is the usual male tendency to ignore or wish away the wife or girlfriend’s complaints, because a lot of guys don’t want to invest work in the relationship, in fixing it.
When the woman gets tired of explaining to the guy that she’s fed up and why, and the guy refuses to make any changes or meet the woman half way, after awhile, the woman gets tired of bringing it up, and makes silent plans to dump the guy, because she is done, she is finished.
The guy then ends up surprised when he comes home to find the wife is gone with all her stuff moved out.
This page gets into that a bit (but what I wrote is also based on couples I have known):
Why don’t some men realise it’s over until it’s too late?_ (hosted on Daily Life’s site)
LikeLike
P.S. above I wrote, “Related to that to is the usual male tendency to ignore or wish away the wife or girlfriend’s complaints, because a lot of guys don’t want to invest work in the relationship, in fixing it.”
That tends to be in non-abusive relationships, but the guy is ignoring meeting the GF’s or wife’s needs.
But there’s a similar dynamic going on, where the woman tries and tries to tell the guy she is miserable in the relationship, but the man refuses to listen, or doesn’t care or is too lazy to change or work on the relationship.
LikeLike
I’d like to contribute an appropriate quote from the late Sir Terry Pratchett, who, though he wasn’t a Christian, understood very well how things work. This is from a story about a young woman who is trying to help a woman in an abusive marriage:
“Evil begins when you begin to treat people as things. And right now it would happen if you thought there was a thing called a father, and a thing called a mother, and a thing called a daughter, and a thing called a cottage, and told yourself that if you put them all together you had a thing called a happy family. – from I Shall Wear Midnight
LikeLiked by 4 people
Christian Readers,
Many of you have faithfully interceded for the past three-and-a-half years for the Abedini family. There is every reason that your praying ways should remain steadfast even in release. This is a problem that is not isolated only to a high profile couple such as the Abedini’s. But this is true about all relationships. In matters like this… social media silence about our friends is best until truth is known; not rumor, not opinion, not emotion. We are disciplined people.
[moderator note: Thanks, twinfallspaul, but my readers do not need to go to your link to hear you tell them to remain silent on this issue. If Saeed is telling things to paint his wife negatively, she deserves to be defended. ~Julie Anne]
LikeLike
Not sure Franklin would be a credible source if his marriage was scrutinized.
LikeLike
“I would charge that this is a deeply personal and PRIVATE matter that should be left between the two of them.”
No, the instant a man abuses a woman it becomes a matter of urgent societal concern. Far from being a “matter that should be left between the two of them,” the abuser has abandoned any claim to have his privacy preferences considered. Why would anybody, under any pretext, think it a good idea to allow an abuser to work his depredations in private and, therefore, free from accountability?
LikeLiked by 3 people