Adam was the first problem with sin, not Eve

Adam, Eve, Authority, Submission, Husband, Wife


 

Adam Eve Submission Authority

 

A man named Jim Reese Sr. commented on an old thread at SharperIron.com, Why Churches Should Recognize Women as Deacons, and because I had commented on the thread earlier, I received a notification in my e-mail box.

You can say that I was a bit taken back by his comment:

“. . . the original sin was not the eating of the fruit but Adam submitting to the authority of his mate.”

 

 

 

 

 


photo credit: Maarten van Heemskerck, 1498-1574, Adam et Eve, c.1550, dét., musée des Beaux-Arts de Strasbourg via photopin (license)

29 comments on “Adam was the first problem with sin, not Eve

  1. “Why churches should recognize women as Deacons”.

    FWIW, IMHO (you like that?) there is SO much wrong with the above statement and not because I’m a woman hating woman. haha. Two points, as follows:

    First:

    Why churches:

    (What is A church. It’s an assembly of His people. So if I have an assembly in MY HOME of Christians… a gathering, if you will… do I need a bunch of ‘Deacons’ for the purpose of serving?). Can we stop with the Titles separating so called Clergy/Servants and the rest of us?

    It’s been going on since 1611 if not earlier.

    Second:

    … should recognize women as Deacons:

    no. a million times no.

    if the word ‘recognize’ is synonymous with ‘elevate to VIP status alongside THE PASTORR’ then consider this being shouted from the rooftops:

    NO!

    Women ALREADY ACT as deacons in the institutional churches. They’re the ones in the kitchen, vacuuming the floors and doing all the stereotypical shitty woman jobs behind the scenes.

    I don’t think we need to start making servanthood something to be ‘proud’ of. Unless you want the glory from men, in which case sure… go with the Deaconess Title. Get shiny big badges made up. Let everyone know you’re a DEACONNN.

    This is why I cannot stand institutional ‘churches’.

    It’s one big pissing contest of who is the biggest and best servant/minister/holiest.

    Drives me insane.

    We ARE deacons/ministers/servants ALREADY. If we serve the brethren.

    If you want a title, you have a greater problem than not being ‘recognized’ by men.

    -end rant-

    🙂

    ps. This isn’t an issue with women serving. It’s with TITLES when assembling with believers. It’s just so so wrong.

    watch THE GREAT ECCLESIASTICAL CONSPIRACY. The Bible has been tinkered with since 1611. No titles!

    The institutional church is not the church Jesus said he would build.

    I’ve had my morning coffee so I’m completely sane right now. 😉

    Liked by 5 people

  2. Prior to Genesis 3:7 there is no mention of Adam having authority over Eve. And of course, poor Adam couldn’t “just say ‘no'” could he? 🙂 Adam also tries to blame God for giving him a woman. Adam just can’t own his own mistakes.

    Liked by 5 people

  3. His statement is incorrect in that the Bible doesn’t teach that. The Bible actually teaches both spouses to submit themselves to each other out of mutual love for their Lord. Eph 5:21

    That verse is one left out of most discussions on submission. In fact I have never heard that verse in church ever. Even during studies of Ephesians.

    Liked by 3 people

  4. The institutional church is like any large institution. Those who historically have held power, do not want to share it with others. Inequality can exist along racial, gender and religious lines. Earlier, many Christians used the Bible to excuse enslaving non-whites. Now they continue using scripture to limit women’s access to power. They may “say” elders are servants of the church, but in reality they hold a position of power.
    If the position of elder was actually used to serve and submit for the welfare of the body, the male elders would eagerly step down.

    Liked by 2 people

  5. “Leadership is Male” is the brainwashing I heard from my former non denominational denomination. My husband was in leadership and us lucky wives were “allowed” to attend the leadership meetings for awhile and give input. Then one day the pastor said leadership was male and we were not allowed to attend anymore. I felt the most spiritual guidance of the church left that day😉 I can’t understand why women are “forbidden” to speak from the pulpit or if they are allowed they must cover their heads. One church I went to all the pastors wives wore scarfs on their heads to show they were in submission to their husbands. This was a non denominational church also. I remember a pastors wife confiding in me she was scolded for not keeping the house clean and her reply was why don’t I just obey him? Hopefully she didn’t get spanked! I can not understand why any spirit filled believer would want to dominate another believer

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  6. Oh yes, we were taught this at three of the four evangelical churches we attended (before moving on to a liturgical tradition). I’m very familiar with this. I wouldn’t have even noticed it, most likely, because it’s so familiar, in fact.

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  7. It was explained to us just how much of the fall is totally the fault of the women they were much weaker than man and they tried to usurp their authority of man. And Yes that is what I was taught that it was the woman taking authority over the man that really truly and eternally angered God. I find that truly, well, stupid. Why are people so hung up on who is in charge, if a woman can lead the group better than a man great, if not let the better male leader lead or a plurality of leadership.

    I mean at my old church this use to really tick off males in the church they would get all bugaboo about female preachers, pastors, etc. It really is sad and has caused a great deal of pain, people who are gifted to lead should lead it really is not rocket science.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. It may be relevant that only Adam was commanded not to eat the fruit of the tree of good and evil. Gen. 3:16-17. It is not at all clear to me that Eve sinned when she ate that which was forbidden to only Adam. Certainly, Eve suffered the consequences of Adam’s transgression, but perhaps it was only in the sense that we all suffer from Adam’s fault. “…because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man…” Romans 5:17 ESV.

    It appears to me that the so-called sin nature is passed on by only men, not women. There is no need for the Roman Catholic doctrine of the immaculate conception of Mary. Submission to women is no sin–it is humility, even obedience to God. Man’s incessant lust to dominate women is a quintessential expression of man’s sinfulness. It is part and parcel of the male propensity to attempt to usurp the very prerogatives, authority and power of God.

    To ascribe Adam’s so-called fall to his supposed submission to Eve is to call darkness light and evil good.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Paul Young, author of “The Shack” and “Eve” has some compelling insights into this topic. Gary W, you are correct, Eve had not been created when God issued the edicts about the forbidden trees. Churches today make the consequence of the Fall into the prescription for God’s social order in families and in churches. Because of the Fall, God promised Adam that he would turn to his source, the soil, for his sense of value, worthiness and esteem. He would look to the work of his hands rather than to his relationship with God as the measure of his value. Eve would look to Adam, her “source” from which she was created, for value, worthiness and esteem. And God promised that Adam would rule over her–he would hang on to the power-over model. This is the curse, not the prescription. If both men and women look to their true Source for value, worthiness and esteem, there is no need to use the power-over model.

    I grew up in conservative evangelical circles and marinated in this toxic brine. It impacts both men and women at the core level and it takes a long time to get the toxins out of that core. Women stay in abusive marriages and churches because they believe this garbage; men feel entitled to exercise authority and dominion over the women in their lives because of this garbage. It is amazing to me how easy intelligent people check their ability to reason, think and fact-check at the door of their church. The “fruit” this man’s comment is comparable to is rotten to the core–it’s been laying around for several millennium.

    Liked by 1 person

  10. Kitkatjudy4 said:

    “I remember a pastors wife confiding in me she was scolded for not keeping the house clean and her reply was why don’t I just obey him?”

    Scolded by her husband, or did the elders have to pay a visit because the government of the home had broken down to such an extent that she couldn’t/wouldn’t do the dishes?

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  11. Regarding Paul Young’s “Eve,” one Amazon reviewer writes, “On the negative side, he [Paul Young] continues to use his writing to undermine and redefine Christian theology.” Given the contemptible state of what passes for evangelical theology, that was all I needed to read. “Eve” is now securely deposited onto my Kindle. Thank you, Brenda.

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  12. Brian – I think men get hung up on who’s in charge because in every other aspect of society it has become acceptable for women to have a position of leadership. Church and home are the last stands.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Brenda, what you have written (especially the first paragraph) is the most eye opening thing I’ve read in a long time. I haven’t even finished my morning coffee yet and my brain is hurting.

    I’m so confused.

    To make sure I’m getting this, you’re saying that Patriarchy comes from a twisted reading of the curse in Genesis? Making the curse the standard by which we live?

    I need to read more about this. Someone point me in the right direction please. 😀

    This might sound really silly but when I married my husband we came from Patriarchy mindsets. Just because of the ‘churches’ we’d been at. But we didn’t read Patriarchy material or listen to sermons all day long on the topic. After a few years I realised that my marriage was different than friends within the ‘church’. My husband helped me and did things which typically men just don’t do. I soon realised that we were Complimentarian in tradition but perhaps more Egalitarian by practise.

    And not because I directed our marriage this way…

    My husband is just a nice guy.

    Funny how you realise this after you walk away from the system.

    Not to say ‘Complimentarian’ marriages cannot work, but in my experience with a few small kids… I’m seeing how the Complimentarian view of child raising and all the fun stuff that goes along with it actually plays out in real life, for my friends.

    It’s very much a case of, “that’s YOUR job, not MINE”.

    Realising this has made me confused because when you accept things as being a certain way, your arrogance won’t allow you to be wrong. When you realise maybe, just maybe you could be wrong… it’s like the ground you’re standing on starts breaking up and all you want to do is jump into one big swimming pool and do breaststroke.

    yes.

    swimming really does help.

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  14. Lots of well-said stuff here. Thank you.

    I kind of read part of Genesis 3:16 this way:

    “. . . . yet, your desire shall be for your husband (instead of putting ME first)
    and your husband (instead of ME) will (as a usurper) rule over you,” or as Gary W. said: will “usurp the very prerogatives, authority and power of God,” in your life.

    Simplistic and needs balance, but that’s what I read.

    Due to the nature of sin, fallen man and woman tend to leave God out. The “blaming” is on-going even today. Galatians 5:15 warns about “biting and devouring one another,” a habit which started at the Fall.

    Epic mess.

    “Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!”

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  15. You know, I’m a man, and I told the elders and deacons at my church about this post, and about the very first reply, by lifewithporpoise, and every one of them rolled up the sleeves on their dresses, took off their ear rings, and all together beat the daylights out of me. I tell ya, it’s just not fair.

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  16. I guess I don’t know how to spell earrings correctly all the time because I don’t wear them. Typical male!

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  17. I have heard various forms of this before too, but in retrospect, I have to agree that I can’t think of anything in scripture that supports this concept. Sometimes people say something as “possibly” and then it shortly passes into the realm of “is true.” I suspect this is the case for some of those who I heard say similar things.

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