Spiritual Sounding Board – This is our place to gather and share in an open format. Feel free to join in the discussion.
***
This is your place to share your church struggles and concerns.
Let’s also use it as a time to encourage one another spiritually.
What have you found spiritually encouraging lately?
Do you have any special Bible verses to share, any YouTube songs that you have found uplifting?
***
As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus continued on as if he were going farther. But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.
When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”
They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.” Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.
Luke 24:28-35
Photo credit: Raymond Ernst, Bayou in south Louisiana
Spiritual Sounding Board 
Yes, Yes, Yes!!!! Read the Gospels more!
I love this video. Thanks for finding it. I love when he says, if you want to know who God is, look at Jesus. If you want to know what being human is, look to Jesus. YES!
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Glad you enjoyed it, Lydia. I really liked his suggestions of picturing yourself as one of the characters in a gospel story. I think I might share that with my kids. What would it be like to dine with Jesus? To walk with him? I want a relationship with Him.
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Yes…
Great Video…
Read the Gospels – Look at Jesus…
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.
Heb 12:2
LOOKing unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith…
Isa 31:1
Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help;
and stay on horses, and trust in chariots, because they are many;
and in horsemen, because they are very strong;
but they LOOK NOT unto the Holy One of Israel,
neither seek the LORD!
Isa 45:22
LOOK unto me, and be ye saved,
all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Mic 7:7
Therefore I will LOOK unto the LORD;
I will wait for the God of my salvation: my God will hear me.
Tit 2:13
LOOKing for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing of
the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
——–
Isa 31:1
Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help;
and stay on horses, and trust in chariots, because they are many;
and in horsemen, because they are very strong;
but they LOOK NOT unto the Holy One of Israel, neither seek the LORD!
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This was a sermon it itself. I’ve heard some that took an hour and didn’t say half as much as Wright did in 3 minutes. I do see myself in one Biblical story with Jesus quite often. Reading the Gospels is key for all of us who want a relationship with Christ. I am home sick today, but don’t feel like I missed anything after listening to his clip.
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Julie Anne asks
“What would it be like to dine with Jesus?”
Here is a full length Christian movie of such a dinner date that I saw a few years back. Kind of cheesy, but the dialog is good. It’s called “The Perfect Stranger”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPPwQApwBsA
Ed
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Thanks Ed, I don’t think the video was cheesy at all.
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Wright’s word was good today.
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Thank you all for the food for thought.
I have been clinging to Phil 1:6 He who began a good work in (me) will be faithful to complete it….I must participate but He will direct and lead and shepherd me…beyond mere needs but to completion. As I lay aside the years of legalism and perfectionism and all the frustration and anger this produced in my Bill Gothard/Doug Phillips brainwashed (drowned actually) mind. I need to trust God for the next step of growth now that the initial shock of learning we raised our family in a cult during 16 years of home educating.
God did lead me back to university, against my husband’s wishes, and then on to Graduate School. He also blessed greatly with scholarships and honors (top Graduate School researcher). None of this was of me, but Him, who knew 10 years later I would come to know His truth about the legalistic cult we were drowning in. All I knew is there was NO JOY or strength anymore to do what was being demanded of me.
As the anger rose in each of my family members, due to the lack of GRACE in Place, I cried out to God and He showed me a path that lead to 10 years of a broken marriage, but the freedom now to see it was Him who lead me to this truth. My husband is not there yet. I now He suffers with PTSD from years of being in leadership and abused by the narcissistic pastors. Now I can see that his depression was because he, too, was drowning in the expectations of a patriarchal cult. He doesn’t want to hear any of the information yet, but I know one day he will. I will take this journey for Truth alone, but NOT alone. I am grateful for my SSB family!
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“‘Glad you enjoyed it, Lydia. I really liked his suggestions of picturing yourself as one of the characters in a gospel story. I think I might share that with my kids. What would it be like to dine with Jesus? To walk with him? I want a relationship with Him.”
I had not seen it before. He is affirming what I did after leaving the seeker circus mega world. I just clung to the Gospels. No Paul until I knew Jesus. Period. I had been living on Paul for years shoved down my throat by the celebs and gurus and misinterpreted to the point he was NOTHING like Jesus!
I love that we are to look to Jesus for how to be “human”. This has been a huge issue for me for a few years now. How being “human” has been described by so many gurus as totally depraved worms who can do nothing good. Or that we can sin all we want because of the cross and we cannot help it. Not True!
Not only should we picture ourselves in the stories but also picture ourselves as being “human” like Jesus in the stories with others.
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I pray more of His grace to you, Deb, for the journey.
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Thank you, Deb, for sharing some of your spiritual journey and how it has affected your family. I was encouraged by the strength God gave you and continues to sustain you as you support your husband.
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I’m praying for God to dump a huge truckload of grace on Ms. Lydia. 😉
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Bless you Cindy. Love you.
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Ed, City on a Hill productions is right out of the seeker mega world. Know them. Jefferson Moore is an actor that was paid to play Jesus in the mega Passion Play every year. Shane directed it. His wife played Satan.
Have not had a chance to watch it except opening credits which cracked me up. I recognize the neighborhood.
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JA, Thank you for the Wright video! Until this point in life, I would probably have not been open to “visualizing” myself as a participant watching Jesus. But now, with so many mega-churches, power grabs and finger pointing and demonizing “others”, I see where I need it to be simple. My pride and intellect often keep me from experiencing Christ and trusting God on a simple level. Now I am seeing how my need for control keeps me from being present to what God wants to tell me. Please keep these videos coming! They open my heart to hope for the things God offers. Thank you.
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Ann – – this was one of those “just happened” -must-have-been-a-God things with that video. I was surprised it was so recent and thought it was so relevant for us. I think those of us who have gone through spiritual abuse have dealt with a lot of rules/legalism man’s ways. This shifts it back to us and our relationship with Christ – something that no one else can penetrate. I love that. And I love the simplicity of it, too.
BTW – – Please feel free to e-mail me youtube videos that you think might be appropriate for Sundays.
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Loved that NT Wright video-so simple, yet profound. Just look at Yeshua!
Many want to bypass Christ, BUT how can one do so? There is no way we would be able to know or comprehend God without Yeshua, Jesus Christ. We had to have a “human” component to be able to understand; we had to be able to touch and feel in the material sense, God. Without knowing a God who could “experience the human experience” we would never get it. We would always think we had to WORK to gain acceptance from God. All pagan religions are based on the premise of trying to attain salvation. Thank God for His gift of His Son.
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In the above video, N. T. Wright, cleverly introduces contemplative practices that should not be practiced by bible believing Christians.
When he says to do what “some traditions have done”, what traditions have done this and are they biblical?
When you are in this imaginary place, do you really believe Jesus will start talking to you and say “now where are you with this”, will some extra biblical conversation begin, or is it your imagination, or could you open yourself up to another Jesus.
Is Jesus working this way now or is he at the right hand of the Father making intercession for believers and the word and the Holy Spirit is his representative on earth now.
1Peter1:8
“Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy”
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Hi Q
“Is Jesus working this way now or is he at the right hand of the Father making intercession for believers and the word and the Holy Spirit is his representative on earth now.”
NOT sure…
Are you saying Jesus, the Father, are NOT on the Earth now?
Only the Holy Spirit is on earth now?
And I can NOT find Jesus – On the Right Hand of the Father…
I can only find Jesus on the Right Hand of God.
Heb 10:12*
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,
sat down on the right hand of God;
Col 3:1*
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above,
where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Ro 8:34*
Who is he that condemneth?
It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again,
who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Was wondering…
After 2000 years? Is God’s hand hurting? Getting tired?
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Hey A. Amos Love
Wasn’t looking to debate the Trinity.
By the way –
“Was wondering…
After 2000 years? Is God’s hand hurting? Getting tired?”
No disrespect but if you ask a silly question you may get a silly answer.
I am pointing out that N. T.Wright is cleverly introducing contemplative practices that are more occult than Christian.
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Q, you say that NT Wright is cleverly introducing occult practices. Why would he do that? What is his agenda? Here is a man who is thought to be one of the top Biblical scholars of our times and you think he wants us to get answers from the occult instead?
Here is how I understand what he is saying. Read the Gospels and imagine you were there during the events. You are traveling with Jesus’ disciples after the crucifixion, you are heartbroken and grieving and do not know what to do next. Then you realize that Jesus is with you in the flesh. Just imagine the joy that they felt! Shouldn’t we feel the same joy today? And imagine Jesus asking us what we have learned from the stories and events in the Gospels. What would we tell Him?
I don’t see a thing wrong with this.
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I don’t see anything wrong, either, Marsha. Since Jesus isn’t physically here with us, just reading the Gospels gives us an opportunity to imagine what it would be like to be with Jesus and interact with Him. I kinda thought that’s what the purpose was – – to get to know Him through the words in scripture. Didn’t God gives us our minds to imagine such things?
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Marsha, I agree some people see N. T. Wright as a top biblical scholar, but that doesn’t mean he is right. He is also a proponent of The New Perspective of Paul which many believe to be unbiblical along with some of his teachings on justification.
“Most well-known among the “New Perspective of Paul” proponents is N.T. Wright, a noted Bible scholar and Bishop in the Anglican Church, whose books seem to be influencing the spread of this troublesome teaching in evangelical churches.”
http://www.gotquestions.org/New-Perspective-Paul.html
There is a difference from imagining what you would say and what he is advocating.
In the video he is opening people up to contemplative practices, visualization, a form of unbiblical meditation and contemplative prayer. I say clever because he covers it in flowery speech.
What “traditions” practiced what he is advocating and what do they call it?
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First, there is nothing in NT Wright’s work to suggest that he is asking us to do what you think.
Second, that article misrepresents what Wright has written. I have read two of his books and have started on Paul and the Faithfulness of God and so far I haven’t read anything I disagree with.
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Is this also a misrepresentation
Book Reviews
What Saint Paul Really Said by N. T. Wright
http://www.svchapel.org/resources/book-reviews/12-doctrine-and-theology/350-what-saint-paul-really-said-by-n-t-wright
“Still, as they say, the devil is in the details. Along the way Wright either redefines, undermines or rejects the following doctrines/orthodox understandings:
• The center of Paul’s theology (justification) (pp. 13, 113-114).
• The nature of second-temple Judaism (p. 16).
• The purpose of the Law (pp. 19-20).
• Paul himself (p. 32).
• The Pharisees (p. 32).
• Salvation (p. 32).
• The purpose of the covenant (p. 33).
• Justification (pp. 33-34, 117-119).
• Eschatology (p. 34).
• The gospel (pp. 40-44, 52-60, 129-131, 151-152).
• Biblical inerrancy (pp. 80-81).
• Purpose of faith (p. 94).
• God’s righteousness (p. 96).”
• Imputation (pp. 98-102).
• The Christian’s righteousness (p. 107).
• Justification by faith alone (pp. 113-114, 116, 158-160, 163).
• Faith (pp. 120-125).
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And this first of a three part review by Garry Gilley?
http://www.svchapel.org/resources/articles/23-doctrine/559-the-new-perspective-on-paul-part-1
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Before I respond to this, which would of necessity be a long post that would be hard to write on my cell phone and will have to wait til I can get to my laptop, I will point out that Southern View Chapel calls the Anglican Church an apostate church and believes in the Calvinist doctrine of election. I disagree with both views.
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Marsha, I do not believe in Their TULIP (soteriology) either but have found them reliable in other areas of the faith.
I think N.T. Wright is bridging to Roman Catholicism.
If you don’t like church abuse you will definitely not like that hierarchy.
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It’s good to want to be with Jesus. Now!
It’s good to look for ways to get along e.g. with Southern View Chapel or other reformed people, sometimes difficult.
Just not at the expense of the truth.
N. T. Wright should not be your source of truth. He has an emergent view of the bible.
Compare what he is saying with the bible.
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How do you define emergent, Q? I find labels to be confusing and want to make sure we’re on the same page of understanding.
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Hi Julie Anne
Sure, the emergent’s like to say that their is not a definition of themselves, leaving kind of a catch 22 because they are always in flux, and so they kind of get away with it.
Yet they all share a common eschatology, bringing in the kingdom now.
Yet the bible say’s to wait patiently for the king.
They also many times advocate some form of mysticism and believe God’s word is progressive or misunderstood e.g,, N. T. Wright.
The Catholic church claims they are the kingdom of God, Do you think they are?
Is the pope the leader of God’s kingdom?
Can we (create an utopia apart from Jesus being here) usher the Kingdom of God?
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Have you actually read NT Wright?
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Q, I’ve read your definition twice now and I’m still unclear. Maybe that’s what you mean – emergent is unclear? LOL I don’t think I went over my small glass of wine quota this evening 🙂
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I haven’t read NT Wright. I’ve watched a few of his videos and I found him to be remarkably clear and level headed, with a strong focus on the Word. I think what I came away from each time listening to him was a desire to get into the Word myself and strengthen my relationship with Christ. I fail to see how there is anything Emergent in that.
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Marsha,
Good question whether Q has actually read Weight. Even if he has, it didn’t do him much good. All Q can do is refer is to other men’s opinions.
Q made an appearance here several months ago. I don’t recall what was under discussion, but from what I do recall, I’ll be very surprised if there is much point in trying to carry on a conversation with him now. Maybe he’ll prove me wrong.
Oh, and in case anybody cares, the John Piper wing of evangelicalism has good cause to fear NT Wright. Piper & company do a creditable job of defending their doctrine, but they have to proof text and rely inordinately on logical extrapolation. Wright, on the other hand, seems to be willing to look at Scripture and simply follow wherever it leads.
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Julie Anne
You seem to have spent a lot of time in church…but not a lot of time in the word, maybe I’m wrong?
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Gary W, Am I obligated to stick around?
What do you want converse about?
Do you have a better definition on the emergent church? Those are my words.
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Q,
Not debating the trinity here, but I do not believe in the trinity. However, I need to show you this:
2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Where is Jesus?
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Where is Jesus?
You see, I don’t see that Holy Spirit as the “representative” of God. I see the Holy Spirit as God Almighty, just as I see Jesus as God Almighty (Revelation 1:8-18).
However, you may have a point in regards to NT Wright. I have not felt comfortable about him yet.
Ed
________________________________
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Marsha, yes, some.
Do I have to read eight hundred pages of flowery obfuscation to get what someone is saying. No. There must be a quicker way.
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Maybe you’re wrong.
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NT Wright is definitely one of the theological stars of our times. He provides a different emphasis but that’s because he feels strongly that we need to look a little more closely at some Biblical messages that have not been given the attention they are due. Admittedly this was a bit out of my comfort zone, especially when I started the first book. But by the 3rd book I was acclimated to his style.
Because of its unconventional emphasis it’s easy to carelessly and falsely conclude many of the points that were mentioned earlier. Of course the copy and paste effort was sourced from a church that I feel doesn’t even have the basic salvation message right so I am forced to question how they can do an accurate biblical analysis of NT Wright’s work.
Anyway, I still have a lot to read and may yet conclude that there are some things that don’t sync with my personal book of Bible knowledge. But in the process I certainly expect to grow it..
With so much really bad theology permeating the churches it’s fun to be studying someone who so far seems to be on target.
Also, emergent appears to be just another slanderous label that one pastor likes to hurl at another pastor when they start intruding on their financial territory (i.e. the flock). It doesn’t have a dictionary definition or even a generally accepted one.
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Maybe
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Hey chapmaned24
I do not want to debate the Trinity either, mostly because of the format.
I believe in the Trinity and Jesus is God.
Jn6:7
“Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is expedient for you that I go away, for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you”
Jesus is in believers in the form of the Holy Spirit.
As far as N. T. Wright, I have made up my opinion.
I hate spiritual abuse as much as anyone, probably more.
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Steve I
I think they do have the basic message of salvation right, just not the mechanics.
They believe in personal salvation by grace through faith, they just claim to know how it all works and ignore or misinterpret passages, yet I think they are definitely Christians.
And being wrong in one area doesn’t make them wrong in another.
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Q,
Jesus also told Phillip that if you have seen him (Jesus) that you have seen the Father.
Spirit/Father, Body/Son (GOD in a body, which is the same as saying God in the flesh).
The Holy Spirit is known as “The Spirit of His Son”
Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Jesus Christ is Lord, and there is ONLY ONE Lord.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
________________________________
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chapmaned24
I will direct your comment to Julie Anne to answer because she has indicated more than once she understands such things.
Julie Anne go
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Q
I had no question, Q. I have statement. Q, go.
________________________________
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Is Julie Anne rescued again, maybe.
Julie Anne do you believe in the Trinity?
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Q,
Now I do indeed have a question.
Why do you believe in trinity?
Is it because someone told you that you must, all because of some meeting that took place in 325 AD that you were not present at?
________________________________
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No.
Let’s here what Julie Anne has to say about the Trinity.
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Q,
No, lets here what YOU have to say about the trinity. YOU are the one who called the Holy Spirit a “representative” of God. Representative? Really?
I only hear that phrase from cults. Most of the people that I know that believe in the trinity believe that the Holy Spirit is God, not the “representative” of God.
So, I am wondering where you come up with the word “representative”. Where did that come from?
Ed
________________________________
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Why are you afraid to hear what Julie Anne has to say, will you lose your soapbox.
Julie Anne please tell us what you believe about the Trinity.
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Q,
Why are you afraid to tell me where you come up with the word “representative”?
I already said that those who believe in the trinity that I know, they have never used the word “representative” when discussing the Holy Spirit.
I have indeed heard the word “representative” when discussing the Holy Spirit before, yes, but not by mainstream Christendom. Just the cults.
Ed
________________________________
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“In the above video, N. T. Wright, cleverly introduces contemplative practices that should not be practiced by bible believing Christians.”
Hi Q,
About 10 years ago, it was all the rage to accuse people of occultic practices with contemplative/meditation stuff. I was amused when you linked to Garry Gilely who was a very loud voice world. I read some of his stuff years back. (The emergent movement is dead, btw. But it did bring us Mark Driscoll who saw where the money was: Reformed)
If there is one thing the Reformed crowd is worried about it is folks having a personal relationship with Christ. Of course we all know that when believers call on the Name of Jesus, a fake Jesus will show up. (snark) We must have a guru represent Jesus for us so we won’t get it wrong.
It got to the point where folks were afraid they were “imagining” too much in their prayer lives. Any mention of meditation and you were an occultist. Check your brains at the door folks.
And I have only skimmed comments but whoever said God gave us our imaginations is dead on— but there are many gurus out there who are scared to death we are going to think for ourselves.
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Q,
I first heard of NT Wright from John Piper years back. Piper was on his heresy hunt. Piper was so against Wright I was sure there had to be something really interesting and good about him. It was like an endorsement from Mr. Christian Hedonism and “Scream of the Damned” shock jock.
So I checked him out. Oh and I found most of the Reformed YRR gurus could not stand Wright. There were even panels of them discussing his heresy at one point in time. But they are pretty quiet now because it backfired on them to a certain extent. The more they used him as a bad example of teaching, the more folks found out about him and checked him out.
The NPP is sadly named. But it is not monolithic. There are quite a few “new” (which are not new if we go back far enough to 1&2 Century) perspectives. Saunders is another one. I find it refreshing after constantly hearing the fundy world tout Paul as equal to Jesus Christ.
I can certainly understand why the Reformed/YRR crowd are afraid of Wright. He wants folks to think for themselves and see a bigger picture. He is a bonafide “teacher/scholar” and not an “indoctrinator”.
Of course there are things I disagree with Wright on but so what? I am an adult believer. Something that many gurus out there have a problem with. They want me to question my ability to know Jesus Christ without them.
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Q
I have a question? Why are you picking on Julie Anne? It doesn’t make sense.
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“Is this also a misrepresentation
Book Reviews
What Saint Paul Really Said by N. T. Wright
http://www.svchapel.org/resources/book-reviews/12-doctrine-and-theology/350-what-saint-paul-really-said-by-n-t-wright
“Still, as they say, the devil is in the details. Along the way Wright either redefines, undermines or rejects the following doctrines/orthodox understandings:” And on…
Yes.
If you want to talk “subtle” then one of the problems is thefundy Reformed world actually merges Justification and Sanctification which brings nothing but confusion. But this is because they take humans out of the salvation equation totally. So, of course, they have a problem with Wright. It would ruin their interpretation of the Romans and Eph, etc as about Individual salvation.
My advice is to really know Jesus before you try and understand Paul. Don’t look to Paul to interpret Jesus. Big mistake being made all over the fundy world and all over history. Paul is very easy to twist especially when we ignore historical context. Even Peter said Paul was hard to understand.
I will tell you what I think is the height of arrogance: Acting as if the historical context of Jesus Christ does not matter. As if he came in the 1st Century to speak directly to us as Gentiles in the post enlightenment 21st Century. What SCARES me is how much some folks want to totally ignore the Jewishness of Jesus. And we wonder how easily Greek Pagan Philosophy infiltrated Christianity.
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Why are you bringing me into this trinity thing, Q?
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First Q accuses Julie Anne of not spending a lot of time in the Word (September 2, 2014 @ 9:33 PM). Then when the heat is on, when Q doesn’t have his own answers, he runs to hide behind JA’s mommy-skirts. Say what?
Come on Q, be your own man. You can do it.
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Q
You write @ SEPTEMBER 2, 2014 @ 12:32 PM
“Hey A. Amos Love
Wasn’t looking to debate the Trinity.” – Well. Me Neither…
You say… “I am pointing out that N. T. Wright is cleverly introducing
contemplative practices…”
Well – If I’m wrong here? – Please forgive me…
But – If I’m correct about you, Q? – Please turn from your wicked ways… Because…
“I am pointing out that “Q” is cleverly introducing”
1 – Jesus, and the Father, are NOT on the Earth. Hmmm? Where are they?
Is the Kingdom of God NOT in WE, His Followers? On Earth? Luke 17:20?
Is God NOT in WE? His Disciples? His Temple? On Earth? 2 Cor 6:16?
Is Father God NOT in WE, His children? On Earth? 2 Cor 6:18, Eph 4:4-6?
Is Jesus Christ NOT in WE? His Sheep? On Earth? 2 Cor 13:5.
Is Christ NOT dwelling in WE? His Servants? By Faith? On Earth? Eph 3:17
Hmmm? Getting kinda crowed in this ole heart… 😉
“I am pointing out that “Q” is cleverly introducing”
2 – The Holy Spirit is “only” a *representive* of God.
The Holy Spirit is NOT God.
I’m with Ed on this one. I’ve only debated this with those in Strange Cults.
And, if ya-all notice, Q is NOT answering Ed’s questions about this.
“I am pointing out that “Q” is cleverly introducing”
3 – ESS, Eternal Subordination of the Son, HeirArchy in the God-Head. 😦
Which leads to Subordination of Women. Subordination of the Pew sitter.
Why does “Q,” misquote scripture? On purpose? Accident? Saying…
“Jesus… he at the right hand of the Father making intercession…”
But, the Bible says… “Christ… at the right hand of “God.” NOT Father.
Rom 8:34
…It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again,
who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Seems, The ESS guys like to substitute Father, where the Bible says God,
The ESS guys, try to prove, there is HierArchy in the God-Head, ESS.
And, HierArchy in The Family, And, HierArchy in the church of man…
The 501 (c) 3, Non-Profit, Tax $ Deductible, Religious $ Corporation,
That the IRS calls church.
Q is very clever indeed…
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““I am pointing out that “Q” is cleverly introducing”
3 – ESS, Eternal Subordination of the Son, HeirArchy in the God-Head. 😦
Which leads to Subordination of Women. Subordination of the Pew sitter.
”
Bingo.
Except, I doubt Q realizes it. I ran into this all the time on another discerment blog born out of a cult. It was real bad there. I was called a heretic and banished for not agreeing with ESS. (They did not know it as ESS, either)
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Lydia
Yeah – Bingo – Do I win a prize? 😉
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Q
You write @ SEPTEMBER 2, 2014 @ 10:01 PM…
Jn 16:7
“Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is expedient for you that I go away, for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you”
Jesus is in believers in the form of the Holy Spirit.”
————-
Hmmm? NOPE. I think you missed, or left out, a few verses. 😉
Jesus said in John 14:18…
I (Jesus) will not leave you comfortless: I (Jesus) will come to you.
Hmmm?
John 14:16-17 …Father …he shall give you another Comforter…
…..the Spirit of truth… he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:18 I (Jesus) will not leave you comfortless: I (Jesus) will come to you.
John 14:26 the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost,
…. who *the Father will send* in my name… he shall teach you…
John 16:7 …if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you;
…. but if I depart, I (Jesus) will send him unto you.
Hmmm?
John 14:16-17 *Father gives* a Comforter – the Spirit of Truth.
John 14:18 *Jesus gives Himself,* comes to us, to NOT leave us Comfortless.
John 14:26 *Father sends* a Comforter, Holy Spirit, in Jesus’ name.
John 16:7 *Jesus sends* the Comforter…. The Spirit of Truth… Jn 16;13
Hmmm?
*Father gives,* *Jesus gives,* Father sends,* *Jesus sends,*
A Comforter – Jesus Himself, The Holy spirit, The Spirit of Truth.
Could Jesus? Spirit of Truth? The Holy Spirit? The Father?
Be “ONE?” “God?”
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Julie Anne, I thought it was an opportunity to show discernment on what the bible teaches, and believe you have a certain obligation at times to state your beliefs as owner of what I think is a Christian bog, seems this topic has come up a lot.
Do you have a problem answering does the bible teach the Trinity?
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Q,
The name of this blog is Spiritual Sounding Board and it is a forum that I provide for others to discuss topics related to spirituality. I have not joined in the discussion on trinity and I find it odd that you are attempting to bring me into it. I do not have any obligation to join in an ongoing discussion just because I’m blog owner.
Discussions go on fine without me. Carry on.
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Okay, so it is not a Christian blog but a blog run by a professing Christian that is about spirituality?
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Huh? I am a Christian. The topics here relate to “Christian” spirituality. You’ve been here before and engaged enough to know that. I have no desire to entertain foolishness.
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It wasn’t foolishness just unclear.
It’s also unclear why you won’t answer something so basic in the Christian faith.
Oh well.
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Q – Because I was not part of the original trinity conversation and don’t feel like entering it and I have other things going on, like making sweet and sour meatballs and feeding my family.
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I cannot fathom why in the world you are interrogating Julie Anne. This is a blog to discuss spiritual matters in the Christian world. No one has to participate in any discussion. We are guests in what I think of as her virtual reading discussion room.
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Julie Anne, One minute you can post videos of a false teacher, then avoid questions, take no responsibility, and next recluse into noble service of your family.
Sure, I mean baloney.
If you don’t know the answer on the Trinity just say so.
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Marsha, have you been able to get to your laptop?
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That’s a slippery meatball.
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Please stop, Q. I’ve told you I am not interested in this discussion. Ask me again and you get to go in the SSB dog house (moderation).
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Did you say meatball?
They were excellent meatballs and that sweet and sour sauce recipe I tried for the first time tonight was “the bomb.”
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Okay. Not asking about the Trinity.
N. T Wright should be in the dog house.
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That recipe looks good!
I like sweet and sour a lot but my wife doesn’t as much, so i don’t get to order or make it as often as I would like.
She likes it more than she used to and I guess I like it less.
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NT Wright didn’t keep asking me about the Trinity. He’s safe here.
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This recipe has the perfect amount of heat for me. I like a little kick of heat. I’ll definitely make it again. We didn’t have steak sauce, so I substituted Worcestershire sauce.
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If only he would.
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Worcestershire seems would have made it a little sweeter.
When you can substitute and pull it off or make it better I think you have skill.
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By the way – do you think I hate women and believe in the Quran?
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Gary W says this.
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Q,
I’ll answer because it is almost 3 am and can’t sleep. Personally, I haven’t figured you out. You are definitely pushy. Not everyone here is a professing Christian. I know of at least one professing atheist. I am a Christian and do believe in the trinity. I don’t plan to debate my belief.
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No, I have not been reunited with my laptop but I will take a stab at responding to the critical reviews you linked to.
First, I am reading and recommending NT Wright. I am not reading and recommending Schweitzer, Bultmann, Sanders or anyone else and it is intellectually dishonest to group a number of writers into a category, ie those offering a ‘new perspective on Paul’, and then critique Wright on the basis of what other people have said.
Second, NT Wright is not a heretic. He most certainly believes that we are saved by grace through faith in the resurrected Jesus Christ who died for our sins. He says so. Clearly. It is as intellectually dishonest to take a sentence here and there out of context and pretend that he believes and teaches otherwise as it is to use Bible verses out of context to proof text ideas one wants to advance.
Third, it is ridiculous to say that he teaches a works based theology just because he thinks we ought to do our best to avoid sin and to do good works. Don’t you? Or do you think we should sin boldly so grace may abound? Did Jesus tell Peter to ‘feed my sheep’ so that he would be saved or was the already saved Peter being given a mission?
Fourth, Wright is absolutely correct to study the history of the time and place in which Paul was teaching so we can better understand the complexities of what he was saying. Your critic chides Wright for being extra Biblical. Well, I am with Lydia on thinking that it is foolish to pick up a Bible and read it in English and think Paul is speaking to people in the twenty-first century in the United States. Biblical scholarship is a good thing and Wright is very good at it.
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Q,
I have already explained to you why I view your opinions with a certain amount of qontempt. Back on February 12 I said:
“Q (as in Susie?) appears to have her (his?) panties tied in a wad over my qomments. Well, good. It gives me the opportunity to explain that I am not partiqularly inqlined to taqe anyone seriously if they are expressing views derived from misogynistiq twisting of Scripture. I hold their arguments in the same low esteem as the astonishingly similar arguments espoused by southern slave owners prior to the Ameriqan Civil War. Indeed, Q’s arguments are distressingly similar to the arguments I personally heard until we were well into the civil rights movement” (emendations in brackets).
Now you qome baq proffering other people’s opinions in place of your own, appealing to JA for intervention when you experience push baq, petulantly demanding respeqt, and generally presenting yourself as a toddler when they disqover they are not the center of the universe.
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Gary,
Why do you (continue) make fun of another individuals name? Yesterday it was “Q is for Quran, holy book of Islam.” Today it is “Q (as in Susie?).” He is presenting himself as a “toddler”? “Mommy skirts”? Is your behavior any different? Do you not proffer other people’s opinions? How do you know he hasn’t read NT’s books? You appeal for others to join in the fun. Why? I find this disgusting and less than Christ like behaviour. In fact it reminds me of the ‘church’ I left and gradeschool where I was repeatedly made fun of .
I know nothing of this person Q, but I saw where he has already spoken out about this unkindness shown to him and has asked why this is allowed here on this blog and he has not been addressed so, I too will ask.
“I’ll be very surprised if there is much point in trying to carry on a conversation with him”, so why do you continue?
“Panties tied in a wad over your comments”.
Would you like to know what a group of college students think about this?
I see nothing wrong with ever an individual speaking with passion or crying out or even with anger about doctrines, heresy, or abuse but to resort to childhood games in order to tear down, I think is not right for any of us to do to one another. Please let each man speak with freedom without abuse. This is so disheartening.
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Yes, let’s try to refocus on the topic of discussion and not get personal, please. Thanks!
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Pondering and JA,
Points taken and received. Should I further engage Q, I will endeavor to respond to his positions and not to his presentation. If I respond to his presentation, or if I respond to views which I find contemptible, I will attempt to do it without facetiousness, parody and such.
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Thanks, Gary, and my comment was directed to all, not just you 🙂 I get it, though.
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I have been receiving emails for a couple of days about this exchange and I think I will weigh in with some historical facts. NT Wright is Anglican and of the Reformed tradition, being Anglican. Part and parcel with the Reformed tradition is the idea that justification has a beginning and an end. Stated simply: salvation is a process. Hence, if salvation is a process with a beginning and an end, known in Reformed circles as the “golden chain of salvation,” what we do, or don’t do in the middle of the process (chain) becomes a paramount issue. All theological arguments and debates flow from this issue: “How do we properly participate in the middle links of the chain.” It then stands to reason that we should play it safe and worship God in passive form in order to not mess up the process. That’s why this sort of gospel contemplationism is so prevalent in Reformed circles. And in fact, if you listen to John Piper’s keynote address at the 2010 T4G, he states exactly what NT Wright does in the video, what
Piper called “pictures of Jesus in all of the gospels.” Piper and Wright believe basically the same thing, their disagreement is in how to do the middle links without messing up our salvation.
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Regardless of the religious tradition, I find great joy, comfort and direction in re-reading the Gospels.
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Marsha,
Um, rechecked my post, can’t seem to find the idea that we should only read the gospels once. What’s your point?
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My point is that while I am not Reformed (or passive for that matter), I like to contemplate the Gospels.
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Marsha,
What’s that mean? Explain that. Wright uses Christocentric interpretation, are you saying that you are a grammarian?
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I am sorry, I have no idea what you are asking me nor do I have any idea why you have any objection to what I said. I rather thought it was a motherhood-and-apple-pie kind of remark.
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Working my way through the gospels right now. Taking my time and taking it all in.
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Marsha,
Objection? No objection, Just asking for clarification. There are only two ways to interpret the Bible: Redemptive Historical, which is of the Reformed tradition, or Grammatical. The former is a necessity for application when you believe salvation is a process. That means you contemplate redemption and the imputed works of Christ are manifested, or as John Piper states it, “you let Jesus do the living in your living.” Those who believe salvation is a finished work and a Christian life of obedience is completely separate will necessarily favor a grammarian approach. They believe they can learn wisdom and apply it directly to their lives with intentional effort. Historically, these two means of interpretation are also two different views of reality itself. Where do you put yourself in that equation?
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I still don’t know what you mean and it would seem to me that there are more than two ways of interpreting the Bible.
I will wait and respond to you after Lydia pops in and explains to me what you are talking about. I am sure she will know and that way I will avoid stepping into what I am pretty sure is a minefield that you have prepared for me.
I have not attended a seminary. I am a sociologist.
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