Warren Throckmorton broke the story this morning that Mars Hill pastor, Mark Driscoll is stepping down for 6 weeks.
In a pre-recorded video announcement, Mark Driscoll told his congregation this morning that he will take at least six weeks off as lead pastor of Mars Hill Church while charges against him are investigated. Driscoll preached at Bellevue at 8:30 am to a packed house. According to sources in church this morning, Driscoll said he is meeting with mature Christian men unrelated to the church. The message is being played at each campus this morning.
**
Sarah Pulliam Bailey of Religion News Service also picked up the story:
Seattle megachurch founder Mark Driscoll will step down for at least six weeks while the Mars Hill board of elders review formal charges lodged against him from previous pastors. (Religion News Service)
**
Zach Hoag also posted a spoof article:
Returning from vacation noticeably more tan than usual, Mark began his video announcement to the church with these words: “Howdy, Mars Hill. So yeah, this month has been totally ridic. I’m out, bro. DONE. Forget angry young prophet and older spiritual father – I’m going to Southern California to chill, and you, Acts 29, and the rest of the Internet can suck it.”
**
Morgan Lee of Christianity Today picked up the story as well, but also included discussed other pastors who have stepped aside from their pastorate to take care of personal failings, John Piper and C.J. Mahaney. Lee’s article is here: Mark Driscoll Steps Down While Mars Hill Investigates Charges
**
neighbor of Driscoll blogs:
All I want to say, before giving the following report is that I pray for Mark Driscoll and all who have been hurt by him directly or indirectly. As a newish resident church planter in Ballard (the site of the first permanent “main campus” as I understand it) I simply want to love my neighbors affected by all of this.
**
Huffington Post now has taken Sarah Pulliam Bailey’s article and run with it: Megapastor Mark Driscoll Charged With Abusive Conduct By 21 Former Mars Hill Pastors
**
David Hayward “Naked Pastor” posts cartoon and post:
Many people are calling for forgiveness for Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church so that he and the church can get back to preaching the gospel as effectively as it had and get back on the road to success, just like it was before things started unraveling.
**
Andrew Jones of Tall Skinny Kiwi’s shared his thoughts, Will Mark Driscoll Drive to Church Today in a White Bronco?
A strange thing happened on the way to 50,000. The megachurch ceased its upwards numerical surge and haemorrhaged.
If the implosion of Mars Hill Church was just about numbers, it would make an interesting case study for church growth consultants. If it was just about ecclesiology and church government, Mars Hill would be the penultimate example of what happens when a church swaps the accountability of church elders and mutual submission to its members for a dodgy business model with untouchable leaders, shady practices and phantom accounting.
**
Brad Sargent, blogger who has studied spiritual abuse, weighs in on the announcement by Mark Driscoll to step down in his article, Responsibility for Spiritual Abuse – Part 1 – Questions of Culpability, Complicity, and Recovery:
This post is about questions I’ve had that have emerge from the case study in allegations of spiritual abuse that Mars Hill Church in Seattle, and its co-founding pastor Mark Driscoll, have provided the U.S. Church. This is highly complex and grievous situation, and involves years of problematic leadership and labyrinthine organizational issues. I’ve been watching the situation especially since 2008 when I started research writing on spiritual abuse issues in depth.
**
Jonathan Merritt, senior news columnist for Religion News Service, shares his thoughts:
As I consider this development in light of the shifting tide of public opinion toward Driscoll and the barrage of scandals that he has endured this year alone, I arrive at only one conclusion: The hyper-masculine minister, Mark Driscoll, has been effectively neutered. He will likely never write another book, and if he does, far fewer will read its words. He will likely never again jet set around the country speaking to tens of thousands week after week. And even if he returns to the pastorate–which I imagine is likely–he’ll ascend the stage a shadow of his former self. The glory days of Mars Hill and its celebrity founder are irrevocably behind them both.
Mars Hill releases entire Mark Driscoll Statement. Here are a few excerpts and my comments:
It is because of my deep love for the local church in general, and Mars Hill Church in particular, that it grieves me to see anything come against it or threaten to harm it. It also grieves me greatly when something I say or do results in controversy and publicity none of you signed up for when you decided to be a part of this church family.
When someone is grieved, they stop, look at the problem, and take appropriate action. People have been calling him account for years and years. If he’s been “grieving,” he has not shown the appropriate response. These are mere “words” not true sentiments.
Over the years, as I have grown and as the Lord has been molding and pruning me, I have, on many occasions, shared with you some of the lessons I’ve been learning. Some of these have been painful, and some I’ve been slow to learn. I’ve acknowledged and confessed many of my sins, shortcomings and missteps, and God has been more than faithful with His forgiveness. Most of our Mars Hill family has been forgiving as well, and for that I’m grateful and blessed. By God’s grace, I want to always be humble and teachable.
No real commentary here about the victims, their thoughts, feelings. It’s all about MD and the process he’s had to go through. A truly repentant person does not focus on SELF, but on the ones he has hurt.
I want to thank those who have come directly to an Elder, lead pastor or me to tell us of an offense they are carrying. This allows us to deal with it head-on between the two affected parties, rather than in a court of public opinion and public media. I believe God is honored by this approach—the approach He prescribed for us in Matthew 18 and other Scriptures.
This is a back-handed way of saying that anyone who has spoken publicly about his leadership has done it wrong. He’s saying: “don’t talk, but if you do talk, then come to your leaders.” Let’s not forget the scores and scores of people who attempted to bring grievances to elders/pastors and to Mark Driscoll privately, but were fired/removed put in church discipline and shunned.
He then complains about people bringing up his pseudonym from years ago, that he took care of it a few years ago. Perhaps he did not do a good enough job of taking care of it or it wouldn’t have come up again. Or perhaps it came up again because the same pattern of behavior exists today.
Storm clouds seem to be whirling around me more than ever in recent months and I have given much thought and sought much counsel as to why that is and what to do about it. The current climate is not healthy for me or for this church. (In fact, it would not be healthy for any church.)
It is indeed healthy for both Driscoll and the church. Those who have been inside and who have known Driscoll outside his church are seeing the problems. It is healthy to deal with this. It is unhealthy to ignore it. That’s what has been going on for years.
**
Warren Throckmorton posted the audio of the announcement:
Article by Becky Garrison who uncovers background on the new PR guy Driscoll said will be helping him:
Mark DeMoss to Manage Mars Hill’s Mess
This kind of advice doesn’t come cheap. So, how much will the bill be for his services, and who is footing this bill? Also, for those thinking Mark D. (as in Driscoll not DeMoss) will resign, churches bring in these kind of players to clean the joint up just enough so no one sees the real dirt. So while Driscoll wil be counseled to clean up his act, until the by-laws change to provide for actual accountability and the church opens up ALL of their books to bring about financial transparency, it’s still SNAFU at Mars Hill.
**
From Rob Smith:
Are Mars Hill Church elders elders in name only?
At the end of the day, Mark Driscoll may apologize and say he is sorry, for this and that, but he will not repent of bullying the 2007 bylaws into place.These bylaws removed his accountability to the elders of the church. His bullying included harming, shaming, shunning and slandering Paul Petry. Yet he will not repent of that act. By repenting he would have to admit that the entire bullying episode occurred so that he could change the bylaws via coercion and duress without due process.
Responses on Twitter (I’m posting new tweets on top and these are expressions that I’m seeing on Twitter – some vulgar language and heated sentiments from both sides:
https://twitter.com/KING5Now/status/503610637965344769
Spiritual Sounding Board 
He is being investigated in accordance with the church’s bylaws. Aren’t those the same bylaws that kept him in power? Sadly nothing will come of this.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Checking to keep updated. Will justice prevail?
LikeLike
Keep hitting refresh, people, I kid you not, this this is wild right now in social media.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Actually, Driscoll did show up at the Bellvue Campus and read a statement that will be videotaped for other campuses. I don’t know if he said anything outside of his prepared statement or if he answered any questions.
LikeLike
Gracie – There’s a lot of hoopla over those bylaws, too. They were changed in a backhanded way.
LikeLiked by 1 person
JA- It doesn’t sit well. Who is he being counseled by? That will also speak volumes.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Exactly, Gracie, his elders are yes men. It seems the consensus of the many elders who already left have echoed the same thing – Mark Driscoll answers to no one. This 6-wk leave will accomplish nothing if Mark Driscoll answers to no one.
LikeLiked by 4 people
Kevin Deyoung, Carl Trueman, and Ray Ortland will proclaim Driscoll fit for ministry in about 6 weeks…..
LikeLiked by 3 people
whejoe LIKE!!!!
LikeLiked by 2 people
Can you imagine how the church could be if we treated Driscoll’s victims with the care with which his church is treating Driscoll?
LikeLiked by 4 people
anon – So true. My heart goes out to the victims. I fear, though, that MD will again resume his position and this will only cause more emotional fallout for the victims. They are watching this and hoping that there can truth exposed, the spiritual wolf out of the pulpit and people can be healed. I pray that Driscoll will repent.
LikeLiked by 2 people
To be shown on all the giant telescreens.
Six weeks for the heat to blow over, then his handpicked Elders/Yes-Men invite him back to ascend the Throne and resume where he left off. Unless one of those Yes-Men decides HE should be Head Pastor and throws MD under his own bus.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I’m not so sure this isn’t the beginning of the end for Marky Mark. There has been just too much info come to a crescendo of exposure for him to ignore it. Once this starts it’s very hard to stop it. I believe there is much more to this and they are just prepping the crowd for what they know will soon be public. This is 99.9% damage control for sure but it will NOT work.
When Marky Mark started his bible study turned church the Internet was in it’s infancy, the majority of Americans still didn’t access it and when they did it was with dial up. Social media didn’t really exist outside of a few bulletin boards that only a small percentage of Internet users accessed. Driscoll would have a 8 year run to built his ego driven monstrosity before Facebook would even exist. Obviously the Internet has changed much in our lives and created a way to (for lack of a better way of phrasing it ) “regulate church abusers on the cheap”. When I experienced my church abuse issue I was reduced to spending several thousand dollars to mail a 28 page letter to the entire church. The pastor moved to discipline me for that and had all his idiot butt kiss followers calling me with threats ( even a few of the we are going to kill you type) but in the end it was all out in the open and he had to resign. He lost all credibility in the matter of a few days with the gradual yet systematic release of what he had really been doing to people. He lost his six figure job and nearly 20 years latter is still in a position that pays 30k a year.
The Driscols of the world are arrogant enough to think they can get by with anything. We have seen that with our favorite costumed patriarch turned sex pervert Doug Phillips , and his fellow scumbag cult leader Bill ( let me touch your body baby) Gothard. Then of course there is ole Jack Schapp another mega church, pervert pastor currently in federal prison for the next decade.
The Internet has shined a bright light on these rats and their days are numbered.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Will this be a six week paid vacation for him? Can you imagine if your work was unsatisfactory; would your boss give you six weeks of vacation while he or she considered what to do about it?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Six weeks should become eternal. The man should have been put out of the pulpit a long time ago. I will pray for his family during this time, but I have little empathy for MD. He should have resigned. A repentant man would resign and seek to make amends to those he has harmed.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Nothing’s going to change unless the people filling the pews decide to walk out from Mars Hill en masse. They are the ones with the real power if they would just wake up and use it.
LikeLiked by 2 people
cooking,
I agree.
LikeLike
Sarah Bailey has revised her article (link above). Take a look at this part. He has a PR guy working for him:
LikeLiked by 3 people
I concur with cookingwithdogs.
My late grandmother’s church disbanded when it’s pastor refused to leave after most of the congregation demanded he go. There was no legal way to remove him so people left. It wasn’t even a megachurch like Driscoll’s, just a small Southern Baptist church. Unfortunately, Mars Hill may go the same route should the congregation realize he needs to go.
Then again, this whole affair could go in Driscoll’s favor. He could publicly resign “for the good of the church” and depict himself as a martyr. He then would spend some time in SBC and IFB churches on his martyrdom tour, rake in the cash, and finally settle yet again as the head of a large, profitable megachurch, be it one he founds or one he finds.
LikeLiked by 1 person
“Mark DeMoss, an Atlanta public relations consultant and former adviser to Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign, has been brought in to work with the congregation.”
Wow. Nancy Leigh DeMoss’ little brother. I wonder what he charges for being “brought in” and who will be paying for that? Perhaps he is doing this as a volunteer. Maybe he can find some pearls of wisdom for Driscoll from his “Little Red Book Of Wisdom” book he wrote.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Diane thanks for telling me that Mark DeMoss is Nancy’s little brother. I was going to ask that question but you’ve cleared it up for me before I asked.
You can bet that Mark DeMoss will have mega bucks available to do the spin doctoring in M D’s ‘repentance’ journey. Oops. Wrong word. I don’t think MD mentioned the word repentance, he talked about healing and moving on…
The DeMoss empire is huge. Fat chequebook. Vast inheritance from daddy-oh. No wonder Nancy DeMoss says she never feels that as a woman she is treated as an inferior by Christian men! They all curry her favor for the money she can dole out. . .
And the report that will be written presumably by some back-room constellation of the ‘professional’ men who are ‘evaluating’ and ‘counseling’ MD and Mark DeMoss Super Spin Doctor.
Oh, and let’s not forget the great models and mentors they can use for how to write this report: John “species of ‘pride” Piper; and CJ (now he’s out/ now he’s back) Maheney.
There is nothing new under the sun. The poison ivy roots of Mark Driscoll’s malignant narcissism will not be pulled out in full, nor even much at all, IMO. All that will happen is some superficial changes of demeanor, but the hard heart won’t change. Does the leopard change his spots? Not when the spots serve the leopard so well.
And no women will be involved in this group of “professional men”.
Oh hang on a minute, didn’t someone write a book called “Brothers: We Are Not Professionals”. Yeah, the grand ole Pied Piper himself! Gee whiz, that must have slipped the mind of MD or his ghost writers when this latest speech of his was being composed.
LikeLiked by 4 people
I know – Barb – he gave himself away with “professional men.” He treats church like a business and that’s why he has to hire a PR guy. Only businesses hire PR guys. Jesus is the PR guy for churches, last I heard.
BTW – I posted a link with background info on DeMoss. It’s one of the links at the bottom of the post (above the tweets).
LikeLiked by 4 people
What caused this was the falling revenue and numbers as well as damage to the brand. That will never be forgiven by the corporation, ever.
LikeLiked by 1 person
“There is a well documented list of past actions and decisions I have admitted were wrong, sought forgiveness for, and apologized for to those I have hurt or offended. I will not review them here as it is my prayer that we can together as a church move on, as Paul writes in Philippians 3:13 — But one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead. These are serious times we are living in and people all around us are dying every hour without Jesus.”
— from Mark Driscoll’s speech, http://youtu.be/MeZzy7Za0GA?t=10m18s, through to 11m 02s.
Using Philippians 3:13 in that way is a mark of an abuser. They mention some of their sins against their targets (their victims) and then they admonish us all to forget those sins because they are ***all in the past*** and there are much more important things we should be focusing on. And it’s even more effective as a tactic to squelch the victims and their advocates if you cite really ‘holy’ things they should be focusing on — like evangelism and saving the lost from going to Hell.
The tactic boiled down is this:
1. Admit briefly, in passing, to some of the sins you have been accused of.
2. Pressure your hearers to not focus on those sins:– find a verse from scripture to use as a thumbscrew to stop your hearers from focusing on your sins.
4. Add to the coercion by pointing out another biblical precept that is ‘more important’.
LikeLiked by 3 people
“A repentant man would resign and seek to make amends to those he has harmed.”
You know when I was a young “Christian” someone gave me a sort of underhanded dig hidden as a compliment that I always keep short accounts and am quick to make amends even if I was the one wronged. After 32 years in the industry I have come to see this as one of my more vile traits. I never will understand the american religion.
LikeLike
Thanks JA for that link to Becky Garrrison’s article giving background ton Mark DeMoss.
From that page, I went to the website of Mark DeMoss’s company, the page showing all the firm’s clients: http://demoss.com/clients Very interesting.
Here are some of the names on the client list; I’ve just picked out some of the names which most ring bells for me:
American Association of Christian Counselors
Crossway Books and Bibles
Focus on the Family
Manhattan Declaration
Promise Keepers
Southern Baptist Convention
Willow Creek Association
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ok, I just checked out that list – wow – it’s quite extensive. I had no clue Christians relied on PR help.
LikeLiked by 2 people
@Ripberger, I’m interested in why there wasn’t a legal way to remove the pastor at your grandmother’s church? Were there bylaws? Were they incorporated or not? Who was the legal holder of their properties? What was the role of the deacons? I have a particular interest in the preservation of small congregations, having seen more than one taken down by abusive pastors. Big metropolitan churches may be able to survive a pirate pastor, but smaller churches generally can’t. Thanks in advance if you can offer more information.
LikeLike
Barbara,
When I first read the above, I thought Demoss sounds so familiar, like the DeVos family of Grand Rapids MI. had to google Demoss to confirm that it wasn’t a typo. Same story with the DeVos clan, they donate buckets of money, and give tons of support for their pet authors, conference speakers. Learn something new everyday.
Amway co-founder Rich DeVos draws crowd at ‘meet and greet’ book- … He and his wife, Nancy, recently moved back to West Michigan.
LikeLike
This:
Let me get this straight. He’s referring to Mark Driscoll there? It is to laugh.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Where Driscoll writes (or said),
I don’t see how he can argue for keeping it “in house” in that manner. I’ve never visited Driscoll in person or been to his church, but I have come across his writings and videos on the internet. Sometimes I did not go looking for this material, it’s there when I visit other blogs.
I may not be a personal member of his church, but I’ve been exposed to his views, and that due to him publicizing himself online, and he’s been on various television shows to advertise his marriage book. I am allowed to form conclusions and opinions about his publicly shared commentary.
I’ve read his views about singles online, sometimes via other people linking tot hem or quoting from his blogs (I checked out a few myself by visiting his site) and find them insulting, as I am a single.
I don’t have to attend his church in person to find this views offensive, wrong, or insulting. I’ve also been exposed to his teachings about women online, and as a woman, I find a lot of his comments and views sexist, unbiblical, and insulting.
If Driscoll and Mars Hill don’t want to be criticized in public, then they can stop promoting themselves or their wares online, on social media, Glenn Beck’s show, The View (American TV show), The New York Times, and Janet Mefferd’s program any time.
Julie Anne quotes Driscoll:
As to “why that is,” and you have to ponder it?
Seriously, dude? Seriously?
It’s not obvious to you what people’s issues are by now? You’re sincerely saying you don’t understand where the controversy is coming from? 🙄
When a lot of people online are repeating the same set of grievances over and over, for around ten years – you are brash, sex obsessed, vulgar, arrogant, sexist, controlling, rude – there might be something to the complaints, you think?
I spot these traits in this guy just from reading about him on the internet over the last few years. I don’t need to confer with a board of elders and do an in-depth examination of what his problems are, they are numerous and they are obvious.
LikeLiked by 5 people
Let me get this straight. He’s referring to Mark Driscoll there? It is to laugh.
Daisy, He’s a PR guy. He’s going to say anything in hopes that he can do it with enough conviction to make everyone else believe it. I don’t think any commenters here are going to buy into it, but there will be those who do. Sad!!!
When a so-called pastor needs a PR guy, he has really gotten too full of himself and somewhere along the line has forgotten Christ and isn’t paying attention to the Holy Spirit, if he ever did.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Daisy, MD has a marriage book? If it is as vulgar as some of his sermons it should not be labeled as a marriage book, but in the porn section.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Really? He’s getting vox-splained? Dear Lord above that is just… I truly have no words O-o
LikeLike
Welcome, ashterah. I have no idea what that means. Can you explain, please?
LikeLike
I always keep short accounts and am quick to make amends even if I was the one wronged.
Brian, There was a time when I felt guilty over everything, even when I was not the one in the wrong. I got over that, finally. As far as religion goes, I don’t believe in religion, I believe in Jesus and the Word of God.
LikeLike
Julie, Vox is an online news source that attempts to explain the news for people who don’t really know what is going on. However they ate more than likely to get it wrong and/or completely taint the telling of the tail with their liberal viewpoint. To be Vox-splained is to be set up for misinformation galore. I don’t know if that is good or bad for this situation but for them to even be taking it on says that this is no longer just in the religious news but is hitting the bigger leagues.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Ok, that helps, thanks much 🙂
LikeLike
Brenda R, you’re only too right about MD’s “Real Marriage”. If he had only marketed it as porn, he wouldn’t have needed to pay (out of church funds, yet!!) to get it on the bestseller list. (He claims he “didn’t know” that you aren’t supposed to do that….See Zooey’s eyes rolling smiley here ).
LikeLike
zooey111,
He claims he “didn’t know”…
I find the man to be a master manipulator, but the zipper on his sheep suit is badly warn and revealing.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Mark DeMoss is quoted as saying, ““I think he’s [Mark Driscoll] a gifted, biblical communicator who has done effective church work in an unchurched part of the country,” DeMoss said. “I like him [Mark Driscoll], I believe in him, and if I only worked with ministry leaders who were faultless, I would be out of business tonight.”
One thing that is quite clear is that DeMoss has been brought in to save Mark Driscoll, not to promote Jesus or even the Kingdom of God. DeMoss touts Driscoll as a biblical communicator. Well, some would wonder just what bible Driscoll is communicating. As to being an effective communicator, choose your favorite 20th century tyrant. DeMoss admires Driscoll’s church work, but when “church” becomes an end in itself, it is actually in competition with the Kingdom of God. All too often “chruch” is just another idol. DeMoss says he likes Driscoll, no mention of Jesus. DeMoss BELIEVES in Driscoll. Well, that IS just plain idolatrous.
And therein lies at least a part of the problem. There is a very real tendency for people to give their allegiance to a “church” or a “pastor” or just about anything that seems grand and glorious, but which isn’t Jesus. We want to be a part of something that’s larger than ourselves. We want to join those with those who are engaged in the moral equivalent of building a city and a tower and a name for ourselves. Been there, done that. Until individual Christians begin to seek Jesus directly, without the intermediary of some “church,” “pastor,” rock star author, etc., The Mark Driscoll’s of the world will continue to draw glory that does not belong to them.
LikeLike
Gary W,
Every word you wrote if true. Jesus has been left out of all of this. It is all about men’s glory not God’s. There will be a judgment.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Excellent comment here Gary W as there is nothing new under the sun. We saw this same concept in the NT where men would seek followers unto themselves rather than abiding in the One True Mediator, who is our LORD Jesus Christ.
Why do some pastors say “This is my church and these are my people?” The pride of this life is evident in much of what is called church leadership these days, when indeed, the Son of God and the Son of Man, Jesus Christ, bent down and washed the disgustingly dirty feet of His disciples before He was nailed to that tree for our sins. Could we do the same? I am sorry, but I have not seen what the Bible calls “humility” exhibited in the lives of a pastor, church leadership, or any pew sitter lately. The “self esteem” movement has done great signs and wonders in the master plan of deception.
People love their Mark Driscolls and his consorts because they do no love our LORD Jesus Christ. May our Father, who art in heaven, forgive us for seeking the wisdom of man rather that His Wisdom.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’m going to post a few Driscoll quotes here. If you are easily offended please skip this post.
Hey folks, Be reasonable. Of course King Driscoll needs a PR guy ! He is an obnoxious, foul mouthed idiot. Maybe Mr. DeMoss can clean him up a bit. That will be tough considering this is the pervert that announced to the church that oral copulation is ok (during a sermon on marital relations) and that he likes the way his wife smells and tastes and you should regularly tell your wife this “so she won’t be such a prude.” He then dived into this rambling diatribe on how he enjoys having anal sex with her. He also claims that God gives him visions of people molesting children during his intercessory prayer time, and tells women abandon by their husbands that they were “probably not blowing them frequently enough.” He shared how his wife was extremely promiscuous as a young woman (invasion of privacy and betrayal of marital trust!) and how God gave him a vision of her having sex with lots of guys. During that sermon the camera actually focused on his sobbing wife several times. THAT in AND of itself is spousal abuse and she should have kicked him to the curb then and there. It should also have emptied out his church! If a guy is that heartless of a rotten bum then why would anyone BUT a fool subject themselves or their family to his “leadership”.
If DeMoss can’t shape him up for a couple of hundred grand of tithe money, perhaps his big sister can come by and wash his mouth out with soap, or whack him with one of those paddles she tells parents to get in her parenting manuals.
The real questions we need to ask ourselves: how did Driscoll starting in 1996 at age 25 become so influential in christian circles so quickly? He is unqualified and a bully that is essentially teaching men to abuse women to “be a real man”. I have never seen sodomizing a woman as a sign of manliness but rather the actions of a dangerous predator.
Why is DeMoss really helping Driscoll?
Why is his big sister teaching marriage & parenting seminars when she has NO experience with either? Maybe her and Bill Gothard should get married so they actually have some real life experience. I’m always shocked that Christians are so stupid and take advice from novices and inexperienced people.
Why is Driscoll obsessed with all things sexual and teaching men to sexually conquer and dominate their wife when God’s Word commands that you love her more than your own body? That command should eliminate any harmful, humiliating or unwanted sexual contact in a marriage.
The questions all have the same answer: the church needs more decernment. When someone in leadership abuses anyone ONE time, just once they should be done.
LikeLiked by 1 person
In Driscoll’s statement/confession, my word counter counted the following:
The word “I” was used = 96 times
me = 27 times
my = 21 times
LikeLiked by 2 people
That command should eliminate any harmful, humiliating or unwanted sexual contact in a marriage.
Scott,
He did all of the above to his wife. I read the sermon that you are speaking of but did not see the video. I can’t imagine being his wife and the humiliation she had to have been feeling. The only reason that I can think of why she hasn’t left him is the permanance view of marriage. Why else would she stay? As for his God given thoughts on child molestation: Have his computers been confiscated. I would like to see him behind bars.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Scot, I so badly want to post your comment on my nephews FB post who posted Mark’s address to his church yesterday just saying he is praying for Mark. I can’t stand it how us with better language have not had the guts to post the vulgarity of Mark Driscoll over the years. I never want to be the one who sully’s young sheltered minds. But when these kids are shielded from it they don’t understand what all the fuss is about. If my young nephew and his fiancé are as sheltered as I believe they are I don’t even want those MD vulgar ideas in his head that a preacher he respects actually teaches to do those things to his virgin bride that maybe, possibly, more than likely may have seen at some time during curiosity on the web. Conundrum, sigh.
LikeLike
Julie Anne,
I also noted that he slightly left the script a few times. He couldn’t help using the words genuinely and deeply. Those words before the words I’m sorry look a lot more disingenuous on paper so the script doesn’t say it. I also think he needed to follow a script in order to help him stay on tract and not tell us all what he really thinks. Did he apologize to anyone outside of his current members? I don’t remember and I read and listened to it twice now. Basic canned
narcissist attempt at an apology IMO.
LikeLike
“The only reason that I can think of why she hasn’t left him is the permanance view of marriage.” Except, what marriage? Mrs. Driscoll would have to speak for herself insofar as her relationship to Mr. Driscoll is concerned, but at some point it has to be recognized that the line has been crossed between marriage and involuntary servitude.
Going forward, whenever I see or hear a reference to the permanency view of marriage, I will understand that what is being discussed is the ownership and enslavement of women by men.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Maybe this article will help people understand why things never change, won’t change, and why you should walk away from the institutional church. I didn’t say walk away from Jesus Christ. The first century “church” was comprised of home fellowships. They were the “called out” assemblies which made up the Body of Christ. They were a Body, not a building. The word “church” refers to a building.
Logan Gentry is a pastor at an Acts 29 Network church and has been a contributor to the Gospel Coalition. His article “Misplaced Thirst For Justice” provides a lesson he didn’t intend it to provide if you will read it with discernment.
The Calvinist doctrine of total depravity ( the T in TULIP) is for non-believers and believers alike. The elitist big dogs of the clergy get a pass on this. Why? Because they are the ones in authority…given by God Himself. Yet, Jesus said there shouldn’t be a lording over of others in the Body.
“This also must be a lesson to ALL OF US and we ALL NEED to check OUR SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS at the door. To be shocked at the sin of another is to diminish the possibilities of the sin within us. NO ONE ( total depravity) this side of Heaven can promise not to have committed similar sins or actions. We are ALL deeply sinful, diseased by sin, and being transformed from one degree of glory to another by God in Jesus Christ.”
This denies the new creation, the new birth, and the ability of the believer to co-labor with the Holy Spirit in sanctification.
This article makes clear why an abused wife who seeks help from her pastor will be told to focus on HER sin. Why a spiritually abused pewsitter who seeks help will never find justice. You are told to put away “gossip, “anger” and “bitterness”. The elitist pastor will make a show of repenting, and must be restored for the “glory of God.” This isn’t Christianity, folks.
http://www.vergenetwork.org/2014/08/13/driscoll-misplaced-thirst-for-justice/
LikeLike
Gary W,
but at some point it has to be recognized that the line has been crossed between marriage and involuntary servitude.
I wholeheartedly agree and see it that way entirely, but unfortunately many, many people do not. I would advocate to her that she does not have a marriage. Her anti-husband has broken any covenant that they had. She is “NOT UNDER BONDAGE”. Thank you Barbara Roberts for your book.
Brenda
LikeLiked by 1 person
Carmen S. — your comment hit a trigger with me:-( So sad but true:
I have been made to feel that I am sinning by not assembling together with the saints, however, I don’t feel safe anymore. Asking questions as to what they believe concerning issues and doctrines has me either getting the quiet stare or, “uh, we really must discuss this another time.” etc, etc
LikeLiked by 1 person
“These are serious times we are living in and people all around us are dying every hour without Jesus.”
Mark Driscoll said this in defense of his desire to move on and put all this sin stuff of his behind us.
Can any Calvinist here explain to me why a Calvinist would say that? As for Mark Driscoll I heard him teach that preaching the gospel was the avenue that brought in the chosen and that we must do that because we are commanded to.
I take that to mean that someone will preach to the elect to bring them in so they are going to get saved anyway instead of die without Jesus as Mark iterated. So again, no brainer if I feel manipulated by him. Only an Arminian can use that tactic with any credence.
LikeLike
Patti,
That excuse has nothing to do with Calvinism, but a lot to do with pragmatism. Look at all the good so and so has done.
LikeLike
Healing,
You are not sinning by not going to a building where other people are gathered on a Sunday morning. Yes, they don’t like to be questioned…and that’s a big red flag, is it not? You either accept what they preach or you keep your mouth shut. No tell me, how can that be the gospel? How can that be Christianity?
Hugs, prayers, and a whole lot of love to you!
LikeLike
.
Jeremiah 5:31 NASB
The prophets prophesy falsely,
And the priests rule on their own authority;
And **My people** love it so!
But what will you do at the end of it?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thank you for the prayers and hugs, Carmen S. Your questions have been exactly what I have been filtering through in my walk. Mega-preachers don’t help matters as so many in my small semi-remote community are very drawn to them and Summit Leadership Conferences on how to ‘grow the church’, etc.
It sickens me to see how Driscoll actually has those who will come to his defense:-( Yeah, like is this the Gospel???
LikeLike
Like in Max Headroom, where the junior executive responsible is forced to commit formal seppuku in the boardroom while the CEO leads the board in the company chant? “ZIK! ZAK! ZIK! ZAK! ZIK! ZAK!”
LikeLiked by 1 person
“One Hand Washes the Other…”
LikeLike
Regarding Grace Driscoll, she has seen what Mark has done to others. She KNOWS what will happen if she ever tries to leave him.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Gracie,
If this is true, she is the poster woman for an abused wife.
LikeLiked by 1 person
“Why is Driscoll obsessed with all things sexual and teaching men to sexually conquer and dominate their wife”
This man has only revealved his depraved mind for how many years? He is simplly carried away by his own lust. Yes, he has the makings of a predator just like his buddy John Piper who boasts of his god given sexual imagery. And what creeds and doctrines do these men teach?
LikeLiked by 1 person
HUG,
Yes, losing money is something noticed by Young, Restless, and Reformed. It means people might want to look behind the curtain and notice who is running this game. You are only able to enter into the divine drama, which leads to the mantra “it’s all about Jesus and not about you”. Heheheh…..what we mean is… it’s not about you, and it’s all about US!
LikeLike
MissDaisyFlower: “It’s not obvious to you what people’s issues are by now? You’re sincerely saying you don’t understand where the controversy is coming from? 🙄
“When a lot of people online are repeating the same set of grievances over and over, for around ten years – you are brash, sex obsessed, vulgar, arrogant, sexist, controlling, rude – there might be something to the complaints, you think?”
Well, yes. Because people are so good at maintaining blind spots, that he can hear this list over and over and it doesn’t register. “Brash? Me? No, I’m outspoken. Forthright. Prophets speak harsh truths…” or “Sex obsessed? Not me. It’s our culture that’s sex obsessed. Actually, because of the propensity people have of projecting their own problems on others, it’s more likely that my critics are the ones who are sex-obsessed, and projecting it on me. I’m actually just trying to deal with a problem I’ve identified in our society/church/whatever…”
It’s easy to turn any criticism back onto the critic. Believe me, I’ve been on the receiving end for a long time and am very familiar with the technique.
LikeLike
Carmen S.
Much agreement @ AUGUST 25, 2014 @ 8:04 AM…
“Maybe this article will help people understand why things never change, won’t change, and why you should walk away from the institutional church.”
I would add just a little…
“things never change, won’t change, and (**you should ask Jesus when and) why you should walk away from the institutional church.”
Ex 3:7
And the LORD said,
I have surely seen the affliction of *My People*
which are in **Egypt, (**The Abusive Religious System)
(The 501 (c) 3, Non-Profit, Tax Deductible, Religious Corporation)
(That the IRS calls church.)
and have heard their cry
by reason of their **taskmasters; (**The Abusive Pastor/Leaders)
(**by implication, to tax, harass, tyrannize)
for I know their sorrows;
Ex 3:10
Come now therefore,
and I will send thee unto **Pharaoh, (The King. The Abusive Pastors)
that thou mayest bring forth *My People*
the children of Israel OUT of **Egypt. (**The Abusive Religious System)
(The 501 (c) 3, Non-Profit, Tax Deductible, Religious Corporation)
(That the IRS calls church.)
Ex 7:4-5
But Pharaoh (The Abusive Pastor)
shall not hearken unto you,
that I may lay my hand upon **Egypt, (**The Abusive Religious System)
and bring forth mine *armies, (a mass of persons, organized for war)
and *My People* the children of Israel,
OUT of the land of **Egypt (**The Abusive Religious System)
by great judgments.
And the Egyptians (Those in bondage to The Abusive Religious System)
shall know that I am the LORD, when I
stretch forth mine hand upon **Egypt, (**The Abusive Religious System)
and bring OUT the children of Israel from among them.
Ex 8:1
And the LORD spake unto Moses,
Go unto Pharaoh, (The King. The Abusive Pastors)
and say unto him,
Thus saith the LORD, Let *My People* GO,
that they may *Serve Me.*
LikeLiked by 1 person
Scott, just read your comment where you quoted from “sermons.” Please tell me MH isn’t a family integrated church, with children in the pews listening to this stuff with their parents…
LikeLike
A. Amos Love,
I appreciate your comment. I have asked Jesus. 🙂
LikeLike
Carmen S
“I have asked Jesus.” 🙂
Yeah, me too. Left the Abusive Religious System in the early 90’s.
Th first couple of years was pretty tough, lonely…
NOT many friends could, or would, understand…
I wasn’t so sure myself. Lot’s of doubts and fears then…
I just could NOT do “that” anymore… 😉
Today I know many who have left The Abusive Religious System.
Some were friends, some pastors, who thought I was Screwy Louie then…
And, 10, 15 years later said, “Now I understand.”
And they also left The Abusive Religious System, their “Titles,” and comfort.
All you need is a little “Spiritual Abuse” to start asking different questions.
And today,The Liberty, to walk with Jesus, to hear from Jesus…
Directly, No middle man… Is just wonderful…
2 Cor 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit:
and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
LikeLiked by 1 person
A. Amos Love,
The reason why people will not walk away is because they are told “there’s nothing else.” They are told salvation is only to be found inside the institutional church. That’s from Augustine, Luther, and Calvin. But the Body of the Lord Jesus Christ is alive and well…..and yes, it is lonely trying to find our brothers and sisters if they do not attend a gathering at a building on Sunday morning.
In foreign countries the Body gathers in homes, just like the first century “called out assemblies” were doing. We can do that again 🙂
Prayers and love to you, brother.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Because he’s a male nymphomaniac and a control freak.
Coat of Gospelly camo paint optional.
“I have a pornographic memory.”
“You mean photographic memory.”
“You don’t know me that well, do you?”
— classic Rowan & Martin bit
LikeLiked by 1 person
P.S. Christians are just a sexually screwed-up and sexually obsessed as everyone else these days, just in a different (and usually opposite) direction.
LikeLike
Brenda- she absolutely is an abused wife. We see what Driscoll is like in public, I shudder at what he is like in private. Even if someone reached out to Grace, she is so cut off from everyone, she couldn’t even try to escape. Mark reads her emails, dictates who she can talk to, etc. Even on the web, you cannot find anything on her (last time I checked) alone, it’s all her AND Mark.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I was sexually abused as a little girl by a southern Baptist Christian man, he hated women and he hated little girls more. All the misogynistic things my father, grandfather, and great grandfather said validated how the church going, bible loving, bible verse quoting, southern Baptist Christian man treated me.
When I first heard Jack Schaap’s misogynistic speech, I was thinking, I wonder how many sexually abused little girls are sitting in that audience having to hear that they are less than men and the sex who is sexually terrorizing them is getting a pat on the back for being born a man.
I wish a few Christians would start caring how all this female slavery to men, you have to be married against your will, have sex against your will, be pregnant against your will, give birth against your will, very, very much crushes sexually abused little girls. I was sick to death of SEX by my 10 birthday. As a teenager the pressure to get married, be a screwed against my will, and submissive to a man mantra, I felt like god was my pimp and he liked it to hurt. I started physically hurting myself believing Jesus was so misogynistic it was giving Jesus pleasure. I became suicidal knowing death would be more pleasant then being married to a Christian man. The truth is, I hate Christian men. I have Christian men in the same category with men who own female sex slaves and men who sexually torture women and little girls. Christian men have decided it is women’s and little girl’s job to have physical and emotional pain to pleasure Christian men.
LikeLike
I took great offense at the call of some for unconditional forgiveness for Mr. Driscoll so that his ministry might continue. Forgiveness, yes; unconditional, no. Such blind, foolish faith that is willing to ignore a man’s overt sin “because he done so much good.”
Some would surely have said the same about my unrepentant abusive husband… Diminishing or enabling an offender’s cruelties only justifies the continuation of the behavior and condones habitual sin, which helps no one and makes a mockery of the gospel.
“”Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.” Matthew 7:22-23’
LikeLiked by 1 person
Most of the points have been made already, but I’ll touch on two anyway:
1) DeMoss, the PR man, said he believes in Driscoll. That type of word choice is what gets people’s focus off of Jesus, and both DeMoss and Driscoll should know better.
2) Driscoll said he will seek the counsel of godly Christian men. That is narrow-minded. He should seek counsel from godly Christian whether men or women. If he wants Scriptural support for this, he need look no further than Huldah in 2 Kings 22.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Guest – – Your comment has really hit me hard – the pain and residual feelings from your horrific abuse are real. I’m so sorry you have dealt with this for so many years. There are just not words to adequately express my thoughts. I’m just so, so sorry. But I’m thankful that you have expressed them here because I know someone else will see them and say, “that’s my story, too” and will see that they are not alone.
To those who have suffered abuse at the hands of religious leaders – my heart goes out to you. I wish this insanity would just stop already.
LikeLiked by 2 people
@Gracie:
i.e. She is nothing more than a mirror to reflect Him.
LikeLike
@Scott:
Well, it’s obvious what his “special preferences and proclivities” are…
That is kinky sexual fantasy given Christianese-Respectable form. As well as reiterating his “special preferences and proclivities.”
A lot of this sounds like the “Caveman” type of rapist — club her over the head, drag her off by her hair, and “have his way with her.” Because “ME MAN! RAWR!”
LikeLike
Remember who’s signing his (BIG) paycheck.
Just like O.J.Simpson’s “dream team” of defense lawyers.
LikeLike
That is kinky sexual fantasy given Christianese-Respectable form.
HUG,
I find nothing respectable about it. I don’t understand why there were still people sitting in the pews by the time this was over.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Tim,
1) DeMoss and Driscoll should know better? This entire
ministry” has had nothing to do with Jesus Christ.
2)Driscoll should seek the counsel from godly men OR WOMEN? Yup, that would make things better. That’s where Driscoll messed up. No, Tim, Driscoll should resign, and there is great pressure for him to do so from the New Calvinists, because what Driscoll flaunts in public is what they do behind closed doors.
LikeLike
I didn’t say he shouldn’t step down, Carmen. My point was that if he wants to grow in his relationship with God he should take off the blinders and see women as valuable sources of wisdom.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I love your comment, Tim. Can you imagine what our churches would be like if men would be open to suggestions from women? I’m so used to men-centered everything in church (except for nursery duty and womens’ ministries), I have a hard time imagining this.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Carmen,
I know Driscoll is New Calvinist, but Tim’s point goes far beyond that specific doctrine. I’m glad he mentioned it because until women are valued in all churches, we will continue to be treated as less-thans.
LikeLike
My wife and I visited a church yesterday where they were praying over a young man who had just finished his ordination. The men and women elders came forward to lay hands on him.
They also had reports from two missionary couples who were back in the States for a visit. One couple had been in the field for 30 years, the other even longer. For one of the reports the wife did most of the talking, and then for the other couple the husband did.
A lot of our friends go to this church and it is very strong on the love of Christ and teaching of his word. That’s the type of fellowship I think of when I think of women and men working together in God’s kingdom.
LikeLike
Tim, Mark Driscoll is a narcissistic abuser of his wife. Check with Pastor Jeff Crippen of “A Cry For Justice”. He states an abuser can’t be a Christian.
LikeLiked by 1 person
“Brenda R
AUGUST 25, 2014 @ 12:02 PM
That is kinky sexual fantasy given Christianese-Respectable form.
HUG,
I find nothing respectable about it. I don’t understand why there were still people sitting in the pews by the time this was over.”
Never mind still sitting when it was over, but the fact he got two standing ovations is disturbing. is it idol worship? fear? fear of losing their positions? I don’t know…but I know after I left the church I was abused by, it astounded me that while everyone seemed to agree that what happened was wrong, no one else stood up for me, or left with me. Today, I only talk to one person from that church. I was there for eight years! I wait for the day I get a call, and say “you were right.” I don’t say it out of pride, but as a person who hopes and prayers their eyes are opened.
LikeLike
As much as I appreciate Jeff Crippen’s excellent work, I think God’s the one who gets to say who’s a Christian. 😉
LikeLiked by 2 people
Brenda R, that is exactly what amazes me. Why would anyone go there ? This has been going on for years and years and is well known. What kind of “man” would serve as an elder of that church ? What single woman would feel safe there ? His sex laced sermons are the norm. Personally I bet you anything he is a 24/7 porn freak with tons of filth stored on his laptop right along side his “sermons” .
Remember Jack Schaap’s polish the shaft sermon (it’s on youtube) that was the day I knew his fall was coming and that his perversion was so complete that it would become his undoing. I feel the same about Driscoll, this is the beginning of his undoing. God is disgusted by abusive leaders and has been exposing many of them lately , judgment has come thankfully.
When men fail to keep their sexuality within the bounds of marriage honorable, respectful and PRIVATE you know something is very, very wrong. Marital relations are not all about men, it’s supposed to be two people giving of one self to the other and expressing their love for one another. This whole the “marriage bed is undefiled” has been taken so out of context it’s crazy. It’s not a green light to sexually enslave your wife, humiliate her and cause her emotional and physical pain so you can feel like a “real man”. We are commanded to love our wives and protect them from all harm even if it means laying down our life for her. Many men like Driscoll need to start by laying down the porn, backing away from all this ” real man” tough guy B.S. and learning how to really love their wife.
I fear for my little nieces and wonder what type of men they will encounter in life as they grow up. I have another one on the way and they are aged 3-22 currently. At age 21 or college graduation (which ever comes first ) they get to pick a handgun out of my collection and it’s theirs. I’m seriously thinking of moving that up to high school graduation.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Julie Anne, people are free to attend churches such as the one Tim mentioned. You vote with your feet and your money.
LikeLike
Tim,
You say, “I think God’s the one who gets to say who’s a Christian.” Yes, of course, He gets to make the definitive determination. However, there must be some reason we are told how to discern for ourselves:
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. (1 John 3:4-10 ESV)
LikeLiked by 1 person
Tim — Could you please show me in Scripture how an abuser is portrayed as being a Christian? Christians sin and then ‘repent’ of their actions. Abusive, non-repentant so-called professing Christians are NOT Christians. My spouse has finally admitted that he is not truly saved, however, much damage has been inflicted and instead of taking responsibility and repenting of his behaviour; he blames ‘bad teaching’ and is proceeding to “move on”? A lot of mind games going on by this passive abuser who kept associating himself as a Christian because there were ‘others like him in the pews’!
LikeLiked by 1 person
When people are thinking clearly, most of them do. When someone is under the spell of a tyrannical abuser, this doesn’t always happen, sadly.
LikeLike
Guest, I am so very sorry for the sexual and spiritual abuse you have suffered. “I wish a few Christians would start caring how all this female slavery to men…..” Please be encouraged and know I do care as others do too and let’s continue to pray that even more will after reading your comment.
“I became suicidal knowing death would be more pleasant……..” This is one of the greatest lies believed and taught; death is good. Never believe this lie, ever. It has come from the father of all lies. I can only imagine how confusing God must be in your eyes as He is in so many others who have been taught the opposite of who HE is. He loves you and His desire is for you to LIVE. Please never forget this.
I will keep you in my prayers.
LikeLiked by 3 people
True, Gary and HealinginHim, and I’ve written more than once on my blog about Mr. Driscoll’s heresies.
LikeLike
It’s important to dissect that confession with discerning eyes. We’ve seen other confessions (CJ Mahaney, Miano, JD Hall). I posted this somewhere else and wanted to post it here, too:
When someone has come to the grips of the weight of their sin and how it has hurt/destroyed people, who they are becomes small in their confession. They become very humbled in their response. The focus is on the victim and how the victim is doing and making things right. They are ashamed to talk about themselves. They don’t defend themselves, they take the blame. It’s clear that for Mark, the focus is on “I.” His focus is not on victims. The number of personal pronouns speaks volumes here.
LikeLiked by 2 people
JA, that same thing struck me in looking at Mr. Piper’s tweet too. He hopes Mr. Driscoll comes out of this well? How about working to ensure the body of Christ, and especially the little ones Jesus cherishes, are cared for in all this.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Tim.
“My point was if he wants to grow in his relationship with God he should take off the blinders and see women as valuable sources of wisdom”
The point is not taking off blinders, Mark Driscoll has repeatedly proven he does not desire wisdom but has intentionally chosen to follow the lust of his depraved mind and a false god.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Gracie,
Never mind still sitting when it was over, but the fact he got two standing ovations is disturbing. is it idol worship? fear? fear of losing their positions?
I can’t even imagine why anyone would tolerate this. It does remind me of the pagan idol worship in the OT.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Whoops, I wasn’t done yet.
In this case the god Is MD and they are sacrificing themselves, their children and the one True God.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Tim,
What is an ordination? And, who gets to determine who is ordained?
LikeLike