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Who Will Take Care of Your Beloved Pets after the Rapture?
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I’m sure this has been a great concern to my readers, so having you, my dear friends in mind, I am passing along this helpful information. ~ja
Here is a brief excerpt from After the Rapture Pet Care, the great folks who will look after your pets after you have gone on.
I agreed – it’s a real concern, and a legitimate concern. Our pets are given to us by God for us to care for. We are stewards of their lives. Should we simply forget them at the Rapture, allow them to starve or worse?
While planning our system, we thought about the stories of pet rescues in New Orleans after Katrina. Imagine how many more pets would have been saved if there had been a database of pets and volunteers activated immediately. This is something we could do for Christian owned pets.
Carol began recruiting other non-Christian animal lovers nationwide to volunteer to take care of left-behind pets if the Rapture occurs. As a Christian, my role has been to put together a program that is Biblically appropriate and provides true value to Christians. I believe we’ve come up with a plan that is affordable, unique, Biblical and practical.
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For more information, click here.
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Spiritual Sounding Board 
*smh*
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I hope this is satire.
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Making money today off Christian pet owners. Makes Amway look like a charity.
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Unbelievable. I hope this is a joke.
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David!!! And I thought you loved kitties.
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How do they know for certain that all animals (and I mean *all*) won’t in fact, be raptured? The Lord does work in mysterious ways.
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Whew! Am I ever glad to see these comments. My first thought – when I saw the article – was “What’s she smokin’?”
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The cats are going with me, or I’m not going.
That’s my standard answer to anyone who raises the subject, & yes, I have had folks ask. (Their jaws are expected to be just fine after a couple of surgeries. Or, of course, the Rapture).
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Seen this Twilight Zone episode? I agree with zooey111.
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While I very much appreciate some of the critique of legalistic reformed folks on this site, this is an example of why theologically speaking I am still fairly reformed.
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So how does Reformed theology fit in with getting animals cared for after rapture? I feel like I’m missing something here.
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O my freakin heart, this has to be a joke. Fwiw, I believe the precious innocent animals will head into glory long before us low life fakers enter the joy of our Lord. At least they are innocent. Please tell me this is a joke!
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This has to be a joke. Let’s face it, if some people really believe in the Rapture, they shouldn’t have pets. In order for the pets to be cared for afterwards, the folks who will be providing the pet care have to be “left behind”. So, here’s my question: if someone volunteers to care for left behind pets, will God spare them from the tribulation? Please, this HAS to be a joke.
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Is it that Synapses is amillennial (the belief that the church age and the millennium are one and the same, and that Christ’s 1000 year reign is merely symbolic, etc, etc)? I think that is mostly the reformed position, but I may be wrong – it’s been a while since I acquainted myself with the various endtime positions.
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I really have no words.
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No, this isn’t a joke. These businesses have been around for a while and came out of the woodwork with Harold Camping’s prediction in 2011. God help us all.
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But you did have words, Kathi.
The responses are giving me entertainment tonight.
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I am not sure what synapsesoffish means either, but dispensationalism which is the theological framework behind the Rapture wasn’t invented until the 1800’s by Darby. Before Darby, you’d be hard pressed to find anyone who advocated Darby’s theology which has now become part of “orthodoxy” even though it’s origin goes only back to the 19th century.
We should do an experiment. Take 10 brand new Christians, sequester them only with Bibles, and see how many of them come out 6 months later with Scofield’s seven dispensations.
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I’ll bet none of them would. When I first got my Braille New Testament in second grade, I came up with an entirely different conclusion than the pre-trib dispensationalists wanted. This whole thing with the pet care reminds me of the Left Behind kits that were all the rage a few years ago. It’s a sad shame that people are being made merchandise of in this way, and that dispensationalism lends itself to deplorable things such as this.
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Julie Ann, there was a movie called “Apocalypse” in which a grandmother leaves a video and Bible for her granddaughter who is left behind after the rapture, and it was around in 1998. This pet care web page is just the newest, latest example of this teaching taken to its most illogical conclusion.
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What about rapture-ready evangelical airline pilots? If they really loved their neighbors as themselves, they wouldn’t even be airline pilots. I can even see the job application questionaire: “Do you have a religious belief that you might disappear into thin air at any moment?”
Disclaimer: In case of rapture, this blog will veer off course.
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I would take care of anybody’s pet after the rapture for an up-front, non-refundable deposit. I would use the money to take care of the pet, kinda like a deposit. That way, you’ll know I have an advantage over volunteers.
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For $5,000.00 in cash, I will see that any pet that survives you and the rapture is fed and cared for. You can email me the information about your bank account and I will make monthly deductions of $50.00 for the next 8 years and four months. I will provide you with a certificate and a guarantee. Please provide the name of all pets, your address, etc. Non-refundable if you pass before the rapture. No caring for pet left to your heirs or friends. If interested, please advise here and allow JA to send me your contact information. Of course, I will not be here to provide the care, so arrangements will be made with people in categories you select as unlikely to be raptured.
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Reformed people (at least the traditional ones, no idea about Calvinistas) don’t believe in a rapture.
I suspect Synapseoffish didn’t realize that JA has a sense of humor. Understandable because some in the church take the wackiest things very seriously. Case in point…
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David C,
I’ve heard the nonsense before, that the rapture was an invented thing by Darby in the 19th century, and that it is part of the dispensationalism doctrines.
Hogwash.
It’s in the Bible.
The words “Caught Up” are in the Bible. Caught Up is the English words used for the Greek words (726: harpazo, meaning “To Seize” and 507: ano, meaning upward).
Harpazo, transliterated to the Latin Language is the word:
The Latin Vulgate translates the Greek ἁρπαγησόμεθα as rapiemur,[16] from the verb rapio meaning “to catch up” or “take away”.[17]
Transliterate rapiemur to the English, and we get:
Rapture, defined as: (From dictionary.com) 3. the carrying of a person to another place or sphere of existence.
Now, there is MORE THAN one place that the English words “Caught up” are used, meaning the same thing.
Caught Away:
1. Acts 8:39
And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Caught Up
2. 2 Corinthians 12:2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3. 2 Corinthians 12:4
how that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
4. 1 Thessalonians 4:17
then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
5. Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
I studied this topic due to the Jehovah’s Witnesses not believing in the rapture.
It is very plain by the Bible that the rapture is NOT an invented doctrine by Darby. And, I also believe in dispensationalism, and we who believe in dispensationalism do NOT discard the future prophesy of the Jewish nation, and the Jewish people.
I’ve heard way too many times at how the doctrine of the rapture was invented by Darby, and it churns my stomach that people will believe that. How can anyone miss the words “Caught Up”, or “Caught Away”? I don’t get it.
Ed
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Steve Scott, who cares if people crash/burn when a pilot raptures? After all, they will eventually be crashing/burning in hell forever and ever. Comme ci, comme ca.
😦
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When you say “she,” Carmen, are you referring to moi? Me, smoke? Heavens, no.
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Oh, I have a back-up plan. Not to worry.
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Look at Ed going all serious on us. 😉
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I catch the humor in it…or I “caught” the humor…hehe.
But seriously, animals have a spirit, too.
Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Ed
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Where has that verse been hiding all my life?
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I don’t know. There are some that say that animals don’t have a spirit. This shows that animals came from heaven…just like we did. When we “go home to the Lord”…home is where we came from, and home is where we are going.
This is how I see it.
Ed
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I`m banking on Acts 16:31 for me and my cat. 😉
`They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved–you and your household.”`
But seriously, if that happened, I`m sure God would look after our little pals somehow because he cares about us and them too.
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chapmaned24
I am not saying “the rapture” itself was invented by Darby. What he invented was the whole sequence of events taking place before and after the rapture.
– Jews return to Israel
– Rapture
– 7 year tribulation
– Christ’s return
– physical millennium king on earth
– Final battle
– Eternity
All that based on “The Great Parenthesis.” If you can find anyone who advocated that brand of end times prophecy before Darby, I am all ears.
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That’s exactly what I believe David C, long before even knowing who Darby was. Long before even knowing what the doctrines were. Thanks to the Jehovah’s Witnesses telling me what they do not believe, I was able to debunk…from the Bible only as my source document…everything that they do not believe in, which includes everything that you noted that Darby invented.
The JW’s and the 7th Day Adventists are sister religions, and they both have discarded any and all notion of a Jewish temple being built so that the Jews can re-start their sacrifices, etc, and they both claim that the Pope is the (that is…THE) Anti-Christ, blah, blah, blah.
What I find is that those who dismiss what Darby said, they haven’t studied things out, and are basing their opinions on ignorance, all because some preacher said that he invented the concept. That is hogwash.
Ed
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I am still looking for dispensationalist teachings that predate Darby.
I hope we can talk this over without the strident tone. No, I do not disbelieve dispensensationalism because “some preacher” told me not to. Yes I have studied things out, perhaps not to your liking, but I have. No, I don’t disbelieve dispensensationalism because I love “hogwash” and I think “ignorance” is cool.
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One of the things that Jesus said, “When you see the Obama-Nation of Desolation standing in the Holy Place…”
Just kidding about Obama-Nation…however, the topic was THE Anti-Chist…not “an” anti-Christ.
Next…the Holy Place is non other than The Temple of God, and NO it isn’t the temple that was destroyed in 70 AD.
Next…THE Anti-Christ IS the False Messiah that the Jews are awaiting. Do you really think that the Jews will believe that a Pope is their Messiah? NOT on your life.
We all know that the book of Daniel and Revelation are related in one way or another in regards to latter day things.
Next..there are three judgments…or as the KJV puts it, “WOES” in the ORDER OF EVENTS in the book of Revelation. The ORDER OF EVENTS are so very important. Some seem to think that much of those events already took place long ago. HOGWASH. We are not there yet.
There is many many prophecies in regards to the Jews in the last/latter days in regards to their homeland and their heritage.
NEXT and the very most important is the promise made by God to Abraham. That promise cannot be broken under any circumstance.
That promise goes two ways. One is the SPIRITUAL, and one is the carnal. The carnal is the physical land of Israel with SPECIFIC BORDERS.
That promise has nothing at all to do with the Jews disobeying God. There were NO CONDITIONS in that promise. Later a condition of circumcision was added, because Abraham had Ishmael. The condition was that the seed of Isaac would receive the promise, not Ishmael.
Again, that promise is not only spiritual, but carnal.
Then we have the prophecies of Ezekiel, and Jeremiah, and Isaiah, and all sorts of other books pertaining to latter days in regards to the Jews…NOT having anything to do with Gentiles.
There is so so so much more.
My only wish is that people would consult the Bible more, rather than to dismiss what Darby and others before him “invented”. And yes, there were people prior to Darby who espoused the same thing as Darby.
Why can’t or won’t people do that?
Ed
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I need to someone to build me a rapture hatch. It wouldn’t be for me since I would be left behind for sure. But if my friends came over and the rapture occurred but couldn’t be lifted because of my roof, they’d hate me for eternity. They would go through the roof :).
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Ed, I guess I won’t see any dispensationalist teachings that predate Darby. Can you point out some resources that predate Darby?
Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons whose theologies were invented around the time of Darby say the same. Their theologies were true and biblical all along, but nobody saw what they saw for 1800 years. And they also marvel why people can’t see what they see.
Until I see definitive resources that predate Darby, I will continue to say dispensationalism a new theology invented in the 19th century. I am sorry that it drives you crazy, but I need to see resources.
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Ed,
The proposed sequence of things is dependent upon Revelation (and Daniel and other scriptures) are written in a time sequence that parallels in time the events prophesied. But that is an enlightenment approach that does not necessarily apply to prophetic literature of 2000 to 3000 years ago. There are other writings of those times that discuss historical events OUT OF THE ORDER of occurrence, much like flashbacks in movies and novels today. Thus, we are making a great assumption when we treat the events later in, say, Revelation as necessarily occurring later in time.
My experience with witnesses (not JWs), is that they often relate events out of order, and one of the chores of a good attorney is to get the story into a proper time sequence. The writer of Revelation repeatedly says “and then I saw . . .”, but not “and next blah blah blah”. He is reporting a vision that is not necessarily tied to a time sequence in the future.
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Well, An Attorney, we both do not see eye to eye. I think you are making it more difficult than it really is. I have seen time and time again that a certain sect of Christianity seem to want to forget that the Jews ever existed in the first place…that they disobeyed God and they are doomed forevermore, etc. So THEY invented a doctrine that dismisses the Jewish portion of the end times. It suits them perfectly well. You find that in the 7th Day Adventists very plainly. The topic is always about Christians vs. the Anti-Christ having nothing to do with the Jews at all, when in fact, this anti-Christ is the false Messiah that the Jews will believe is their long awaited Messiah, having nothing to do with Christians at all.
Next…Christianity is not a replacement of Judaism, it is an extension of Judaism. We worship the God of the Jews, they don’t worship our God. In our arrogance, we seem to forget that.
In Christ, there is no Jew or Gentile…However, outside of Christ, there is ONLY Jew and Gentile. Do not dismiss the Jews, nor the Jewish prophesies, nor the Jewish nation, nor Jerusalem that sits at the heart of the whole thing.
Ed
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An Attorney,
I have heard before about the “out of sequence” of events in the book of Revelation. I believe that is hogwash. There are three woes, and as soon as the first woe is complete, it is stated the second woe is about to begin. And after the 2nd woe is completed, the third woe is Armageddon.
There is not an out of sequence of events, as what is being reported by some. That would be “confusion”, and God is a God of order. Line by line, precept upon precept. So, I do not buy into the “out of sequence” doctrines, as a flashback.
Ed
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David C,
You have heard of Google.com, no? That is about as far as I will help you.
My only source document is the Bible alone, which I wish that you would consult as your only source document. Why do you want to know what others believe, anyway? Why not form your own opinion based on what YOU and you alone find ON YOUR OWN from the pages of the Rock of Ages? That is what I do. It just so happens that Darby believed what I believe…not the other way around.
Ed
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No, I have never heard of google.com. What is it?
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David C.,
Uh-huh! Well, Okee Dokee then.
Ed
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Ed I am with you here on the rapture- I never believed the rapture based on Darby either but what I studied. If someone however does not believe it, well it won’t ruin my fellowship with that believer. But for the record, Calvinists as a whole, do not believe in the rapture or dispensationism or Israel still being chosen. Most denominations don’t, even Catholics.
Another thing to check out is the early Christians in their writings-
Irenaeus
On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies 5.29, he wrote:
“Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons “as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing;”(1) so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”(2) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”
Cyprian (Bishop of the church in Carthage)
In Treatises of Cyprian he wrote in describing the end times Great Tribulation:
“We who see that terrible things have begun, and know that still more terrible things are imminent, may regard it as the greatest advantage to depart from it as quickly as possible. Do you not give God thanks, do you not congratulate yourself, that by an early departure you are taken away, and delivered from the shipwrecks and disasters that are imminent? Let us greet the day which assigns each of us to his own home, which snatches us hence, and sets us free from the snares of the world and restores us to paradise and the kingdom.”
“We ought to understand thoroughly therefore, my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled (consummated), and there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one in the completion of the Roman kingdom. Why therefore are we occupied with worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time.”
Ephraim The Syrian -On The Last Times 2
“Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: “Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!” For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins. And so, brothers most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of the world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their hands, awaiting the empire of the Lord. And we think that the earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early. Commotions are brought forth, wars of diverse peoples and battles and incursions of the barbarians threaten, and our regions shall be desolated, and we neither become very much afraid of the report nor of the appearance, in order that we may at least do penance; because they hurl fear at us, and we do not wish to be changed, although we at least stand in need of penance for our actions!”
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David C said: “Seen this Twilight Zone episode? I agree with zooey111”.
That was the first thing that popped into my mind when I read the title of this thread. A real favorite of mine.
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Trust4himonly,
You had said:
” But for the record, Calvinists as a whole, do not believe in the rapture or dispensationism or Israel still being chosen. Most denominations don’t, even Catholics.”
Yes, I know…and I have seen and heard them mocking and laughing at those who do indeed believe in the rapture and dispensationalism. They mock and laugh out of ignorance, which David C likes ignorance, especially when he won’t believe in something unless he finds that someone else wrote a book about it before Darby. Well, I found a book about it. It’s called the Holy Bible. Almost every bookstore has it, and it’s been on the market for a very long time.
I really feel sorry for those who mock the clear teachings of the Bible.
It’s obvious that David C does not believe in the rapture, as he states:
“but dispensationalism which is the theological framework behind the Rapture wasn’t invented until the 1800′s by Darby.”
I laid out my case, then he back tracks by saying:
“I am not saying “the rapture” itself was invented by Darby. What he invented was the whole sequence of events taking place before and after the rapture.”
In either case, he doesn’t believe in the rapture, even after I laid it out, for he states about himself:
“I would be left behind for sure.”
If he doesn’t believe in the theological framework behind the rapture, then he doesn’t believe in the rapture itself. No wonder he finds humor in the topic of the post.
I don’t get why he needs books from people prior to Darby when he should have a bible instead. Yes, he believes the preachers that mocks and laughs at the dispensationalists.
Ed
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trust4himonly,
None of the quotes establishes the chronological sequence of events established by Darby. They all say that terrible things will happen and we will be caught up (rapture) which I do not dispute.
We can safely say that Cyprian’s prognostication of “what is imminent or overhanging. About 18 centuries have passed since he said it.
Every generation has strongly believed that the end was near, and every generation has been wrong. I guess if we keep doing that, one day, one generation will finally get it right … maybe around the 45th century.
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David C.,
Why don’t you tell us what the Bible states. Quote the Bible. As you will notice, that is what I do. Let’s see if your independent study of the Bible alone holds up to my independent study of the Bible alone. Do you smell a challenge? Or do you still want books prior to Darby?
Since you mock dispensationalists, and you mock Google.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
Those who oppose Darby are those who are TAUGHT to oppose Darby. You certainly don’t just oppose Darby by your own mind. Others taught you to oppose him.
I hear his name a lot these days, mocking him, when in fact, you should hear him out, and research as to WHY he believes what he believes. That part is missing. No one seems to care WHY he believes what he believes. They just mock that he believes.
No other outside books, no other outside quotations from dead people. Just you and the Bible alone, vs. me and the Bible alone.
After all, Jesus used to say “Have you not read…” He certainly was not discussing any other book but the scriptures.
You made it out as tho you do not believe in the rapture, due to the fact that you do not believe in the “framework”. Now you are back tracking.
Ed
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I was a strong proponent of dispensationalism for 20 years. Then I read the Bible.
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Then you have a contradiction problem. So, what you are telling me is that you BLINDLY believed in something but YOU FAIL at quoting the scripture that changed your mind.
Quote it buddy!!
Because I don’t believe that the Bible changed your mind. I believe that you were TAUGHT to have a change of mind, and why do I believe that? Because those who BLINDLY believe something are VULNERABLE to believe ANYTHING. You are then accused of believing it out of tradition, i.e. your parents taught you, etc.
Do you know what cultish sect does this the most? The United Church of God, which is the Herbert W Armstrong clan, and his son, Garner Ted Armstrong. Then you have that weird guy on TV Pastor Murray of Shepherd’s Chapel, as well.
Oh, and the reformed folks too. Since you are VULNERABLE, you are CONVINCED by those people that what you previously believed blindly is all wrong, that you are to believe what THEY will teach you.
Dude…I see this A LOT. Hook, Line, Sinker.
So, no, I do not believe that the Bible changed your mind. I believe a PERSON changed your mind, WITHOUT the bible.
Ed
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Ed,
I’m not a dispensationalist or a premillennialist. I did hold those at one time, but have changed my views. FWIW I see us being caught up to be with the Lord, but just like the ancient custom of going out of the city to greet an approaching king, we usher him into the city. We meet him in the clouds to usher him back to earth where his kindgom has already been being set up.
I know there are those who dismiss Israel, but the dispy’s treat Israel like a separate nation. The Reformed (in general) and dispies set up a false dilemma. Israel is a tree (Rom 11). The unbelieving branches were cut off and we believing Gentiles were grafted in. WE are Israel. Then, sometime in the future, unbelieving Jews will be grafted back in to the already existing tree of Israel that we already are.
When I read the bible, I see different things entirely than dispensationalists do. And amils and historic premils and preterists, and… Ed, there is a matter of interpretation and many people come to their conclusions with just as much study as anybody else. I’ve held to five different eschatological positions and now I have a completely different way of looking at things. We could go on forever with a discussion of eschatology alone, but I’m sure some end times event would cut that short!
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Steve Scott,
Part, and I emphasize the word part, of the reason that I am a dispensationalist is due to what Jesus said in regards to what the Prophet David said, that when you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, that holy place is the Temple of God, not the Vatican in Rome.
Next, the Promised Land to the Jews. That promise cannot be broken. That promise was not made to the Jews in general, but to Abraham, WITHOUT condition.
This is the most important. The Jews (NOT GENTILES) WILL inherit the PHYSICAL land of Israel with its specific borders as outlined by God to Abraham.
To date, those specific borders have yet to be achieved.
We can spiritualize the word Israel, but we cannot have a replacement theology.
And we do spiritualize the Promised Land as that of being heaven (the book of Hebrews explains that), but we cannot dismiss or replace the carnal promise to Abraham as being the physical land. It goes both ways.
Israel is Jacob. Jacobs name was changed to Israel. It’s biblical meaning is “struggles (wrestles) with God and prevails”.
God is the one who blinded the Jews from the git go (Moses states that in Deuteronomy), and it isn’t the fault of the Jews that God blinded them. Therefore, God will show mercy on those that he blinded.
When I study the book of Revelation, I’ve done it with a fine tooth comb, taking notes, going back to Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and a whole slew of others.
The Apostle Paul asks us a rhetorical question…What advantage is it at being a Jew? Much, he states, for the Jews hold the Oracles of God, NOT THE GENTILES. Not the Pope, Not John MacArthur, Not Billy Graham, etc.
The ONLY reason that Christianity is alive and well, is because Judaism is alive and well. Without the Jews, there would be no Christianity. The Jews are a light to the Gentiles. We see Jesus clearly by the Jews…their customs, feasts, etc., is all about Jesus, and they keep those customs alive.
I cannot, nor will not dismiss the Jews from future prophecy, and Romans 11 does not go into enough or much detail as the Hebrew scriptures do. But it sure gives us Gentiles a warning. A huge warning to not bad mouth the Jews.
I’m sorry Scott, but I see dispensationalism all over the Bible. It permeates it.
Ed
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Steve Scott,
In my previous to you I stated:
“that holy place is the Temple of God, not the Vatican in Rome. ”
I need to add to that, that the holy place is the Temple of God in Jerusalem.
The abomination of desolation is the Anti-Christ standing in the Temple of God, IN JERUSALEM proclaiming to be God, the Messiah of the Jews.
Did that happen in 70 AD? No. That shows that this is future prophecy. In order for that to happen, the Jews must rebuild the Temple of God, so that the abomination of desolation can proclaim to the Jews, “Hey guys, I’m the one who you have been waiting for”. Remember when the apostles of Jesus asked specifically about Jesus restoring the Kingdom? They were not discussing the “Kingdom of God”, but the Kingdom of the physical land of Israel. That is what the unbelieving Jews are awaiting as well, because this is ONE of the reasons why they say that Jesus isn’t the Messiah, as that is a prophesy, that the Messiah will RESTORE the Kingdom, and again, this isn’t discussing “The Kingdom of God”, but it is discussing the Kingdom of Israel…the physical land. The false Messiah will do that. That is why it is noted that the Anti-Christ will bring peace. There will be peace in Israel, just as it was when Jesus was on earth, because that peace is part of the prophecy of the Messiah, false or not.
The biggest thing that is dismissed by most Christians is the role of the Anti-Christ. They are not taught that this anti-Christ is the supposed Messiah that the Jews are awaiting.
Lastly, I must add that if you study the story of Joseph, Joseph is a “type or shadow” of Jesus, in that Joseph (JESUS) did NOT reveal himself to his BRETHREN the first time…but the SECOND time around, he did, and he had compassion on his own brethren, and forgave them. That is a story of the relationship of Jesus and his own people, the Jews, his brethren.
That is another reason for why I believe in dispensationalism. And I have much more reasons, too.
Ed
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Another reason:
Matthew 22:41-42
King James Version (KJV)
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
The Jews MUST believe that the false Messiah is none other than the son of David. Is Jesus the son of David?
Matthew 1:1
King James Version (KJV)
1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David
That would be what nationality? Has there ever been a Jewish Pope? Will there ever be a Jewish Pope? What is the general attitude of the Jews by Rome?
Not long ago, the last pope wrote a book, exonerating the Jews for killing Jesus. REALLY? Didn’t Jesus do that already when he said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
The False Messiah, which is THE Anti-Christ, based on what the Jews believe, will be the son of David…a Jew. Who was the last Jewish Pope?
All this talk about the papacy being THE anti-Christ is crazy talk, and I am not a Catholic. There is a lot of hatred for the Catholics by the reformers, and some of that hatred may be justified, but to proclaim from the rooftops that the papacy is THE anti-Christ is crazy talk. To me, it’s entertaining, to say the least. Lucky for me, I not only know the reformers talking points, because they are the same talking points that the 7th Day Adventists have, but I know the Bible BETTER THAN those who proclaim that the papacy, or the SYSTEM of Catholicism is the anti-Christ. It was a nice try to attempt to equate the Latin numbering system to come up with a conclusion that 666 is the Vicar of Christ. Very entertaining, as it is not something that I would take seriously. The ole Gentile experts think that they have all the answers, because they refuse to seek out the beliefs of the Jews. They KNOW that the Messiah is a Jew, based on being the son of David, not a gentile pope.
Ed
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Unfortunately I was “caught up” in matters that could not be ignored while this thread was developing. Here is my late 2 cents worth. Is there a rapture, a “catching up?” Yes, of course:
Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. (Matthew 24:40-42, ESV)
Who will be “caught up” as describe in these verses? Not the righteous, but the UNRIGHTEOUS:
For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. (Matthew 24:38-39, ESV)
Which of the unrighteous specifically? False Christians:
And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’” (Matthew 13:27-30, ESV)
Tares first, at what is commonly referred to as the pre-tribulation (or mid-tribulation) rapture, then the wheat at our Lord’s return, at the “catching up” referred to here:
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, ESV)
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Gary W.
You had said: “Who will be “caught up” as describe in these verses? Not the righteous, but the UNRIGHTEOUS”
That is practically a cut and paste, if you will, from Arnold Murray of Shepherds Chapel.
Caught up IN THE AIR TO MEET THE LORD is NOT the unrighteous, my friend.
Pastor Murray also preaches that there is no such thing as our spirit “flying away” to heaven, either, quoting the book of Acts that states that King david is dead and buried.
He’s a funny guy, and he passed away a couple of weeks ago, and I am sure that God chewed him a new one after he died for his goofy teachings.
Ed
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Gary W.
Who are the “dead in Christ”? They are those in heaven with Christ. We are those “IN CHRIST” who are alive on earth.
In regards to the Noah’s Ark, destruction was going on BELOW the Ark, not above the Ark, and the Ark was above the destruction.
Spiritually speaking, JESUS is the Ark, and we are IN HIM, protected above the earth while the earth is in destruction.
Ed
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I am a very strong advocate for a two state solution in the Palestine/Israel conflict. I also support the Palestinians’ right of return. So all that sure ensure that I will be indeed left behind.
So back to the topic at hand. Meow!
Who is going to update your Facebook status when you are raptured? I charge $1,000 per Facebook user to update your status on your Facebook wall.
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Just because the word “rapture” is in the Bible, that doesn’t mean dispensationalism is a valid theology. I was raised on the rapture doctrine. When I was 26, I found a method to read through the Bible in the order in which it was written, and not merely from Genesis straight through to Revelation. When I read through Ezekiel, my belief in the rapture was immediately gone. God will not have a temple rebuilt with animal sacrifices. In fact, God did away with the temple in 70 A.D. Jesus’ sacrifice is the only sacrifice God accepts.
God will indeed rapture his son’s followers. But it will be at the end of time, when those who have died will also be brought before him. God will judge the living and the dead.
So, yes, it was indeed Darby who put forth a misleading view of the rapture, along with the framework that supports it, namely, dispensationalism. Your tummy needn’t churn. All you have to do is look at the reasoning against the rapture by other Christians, and you will have enough holes poked in that wrong method of interpretation to allow you to understand other points of view on eschatology.
This, of course, assumes that you are willing to listen to any POV other than your own.
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And, who decided that it was a “great parenthesis” in the first place? Why do we always seek to fill in the blanks? Is it because fundamentalists have this great need to have an answer for every single thing in the Bible? Methinks so. I was born and raised a fundamentalist. I believed all of it until I turned 26 and actually read the Bible in the order in which the books were written. Funny how context means everything, right? Who knew that it would be the KJV Bible that would knock the legs out from under the doctrine of dispensationalism?
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“The JW’s and the 7th Day Adventists are sister religions, and they both have discarded any and all notion of a Jewish temple being built so that the Jews can re-start their sacrifices.”
For me, it was the book of Ezekiel that debunked that idea.
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Well, Ed, as someone who has read through the Bible several times, I can say with absolute confidence that your interpretation of those passages is incorrect. Read what took place at the temple before its destruction. That alone should give you pause.
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I also was a strong dispensationalist. Then I read the Bible for myself, in its proper order. But, of course, Ed will say that our reading of the Bible somehow doesn’t square with his reading of the Bible. Dispensationalists cannot give credence to others who use the Bible as a source. He has to resort to denigration such as referring to nondispensationalists as “ignorant” and our understanding as “hogwash.” When you get those kinds of responses, it’s time to pack it in. You just can’t have a rational conversation with such folks. I know this because I have attempted to talk about these things with my parents, both 85, who have remained ardent dispensationalists their entire lives.
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And, I rest my case, which I presented to David C. I, for one, read the Bible, ditched dispensationalism after reading it through most especially Ezekiel, and I told no one that I had changed my beliefs. I knew I’d be mocked and dismissed, and it wasn’t important enough to me back then (I was 26, now I’m 58) to rock the boat. I didn’t even tell my husband.
But, you have the answers to everything, just like any good fundamentalist, so to engage you on specific passages, especially in context, is a useless endeavor. In the meantime, I still cringe at the vehement proclamation that dispensationalism is the only correct way to view eschatology. It saddens me that one man, Darby, and one study Bible, Scofield’s, has led so many astray.
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Sheila, this is one of those “I really don’t care” topics for me because it won’t affect my grandchildren and it’s not a primary doctrine issue, but how do you see that believing it leads people astray? What do you mean by astray? Lose their salvation? A distraction?
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Thank you, Sheila.
This Christianity article planted a seed in my thought process. The article does not outright debunk dispensationalism, but it documents its dubious role in Evangelicals’ political advocacy in the Palestinian/Israeli conflict.
Then I started to take a closer look at Middle East politics without the Evangelical political filters. The transformation that my worldview went through from there is probably well outside the scope of this blog, so I won’t go there. But I will say that end times prophecy based on dispensationalism in various forms has been used as a tool of spiritual abuse in Evangelical circles.
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If I may chime in, Julie. This may not be a primary doctrine issue for you, but it is treated as so in many Evangelical churches particularly Calvary Chapel. It is treated as a non-negotiable in many circles. Chuck Smith has stated on many occasions that each believer will be asked to account for his/her support for the nation of Israel before the Judgement Seat. So if you are not ardently pro-Israel in the conflict, you have some explaining to do on the judgement day.
My departure from the dispensationalist doctrine was unacceptable and I was called out for it when the pro-Israel fervor and anti-Islam hysteria reached fever pitch following 9-11.
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David C.
I think that God is an advocate of a one state solution. The specific borders for the children of Israel thru Isaac (DAT BE DA JEWS) is as follows:
Genesis 15:18 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates
If it were thru Ishmael, instead, then your advocacy might stand a chance.
Ed
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Sheila0405, Yes, the temple will be rebuilt and the sacrifices will restart, because the anti-christ will bring an end to it. He can’t bring an end to it if it isn’t an ongoing thing (See Daniel 8).
You seem to forget that the Jews are awaiting their messiah, and therefore, there will be animal sacrifices. That messiah, the false one, is the (THE) Anti-Christ.
The problem that I see is that only few great teachers see the Noah’s Ark story, not just in the carnal sense, but the spiritual sense, that Jesus is OUR Ark, and that we are IN him, and we are protected from wrath, not destined to wrath. We are Just like Noah. Noah was not destined to wrath. He was protected ABOVE the earth while the earth was in destruction below.
Sorry, but I just don’t see your point of view in the Bible. Especially knowing that God made a promise to Abraham, with specific borders. No conditions.
It’s easy for people to spiritualize that, and that is great, but it seems to be hard for people to see the carnal of that as well, because it goes both ways, both carnal and spiritual.
Spiritual Promised Land is heaven. We all know that. We inherit eternal life. That is spiritual. But…
Carnal Promised Land is for the Jews, the physical land of Israel. Many non-dispensationalists deny that. We can’t deny it.
Ed
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sheila0405
You had said: “Who knew that it would be the KJV Bible that would knock the legs out from under the doctrine of dispensationalism?”
My response: It doesn’t. I use KJV pretty exclusively. And I see dispensationalism all over the place.
Ed
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In the days of Ezekiel, they had sacrifices. The prophecies in regards to ending sacrifices are in Daniel 8 and 9.
Daniel 8 discusses the Anti-Christ, that he will end the sacrifices.
Daniel 9 discusses Jesus, that he will end the sacrifices.
So, we have sacrifices ending twice. One by THE Messiah, and another by a false Messiah.
Ed
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Yep, hogwash is a polite way to say (&^Y(&^*&%*&. Just kidding. It’s a favorite word of mine. Should I say BS instead, spelling out the two letters?
Yes, I am sarcastic. If you’ve been around this blog long enough, you will see that is part of my charm. That’s me. And I still say that your interpretation is hogwash.
Ed
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And I embraced dispensationalism after reading the Bible. And I am 49.
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Good point, JA…is this a salvation issue for her? Hmmm. It isn’t for me…it’s just a fun tit for tat…but I still say I’m right!! LOL!!
Ed
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So, David C., now the truth comes out. An article changed your mind…not the Bible itself. Nice for you to finally reveal that an article changed your mind instead of the Bible. No wonder you couldn’t quote me anything. As you should note, I never quote an article in any blog post…just my knowledge of the Bible alone. The word of God vs. the word of a magazine? Which do you choose?
Ed
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Ed said:
Sheila – I hope you are catching on to Ed’s personality. Sometimes I think he’s like my little brother. LOL
Don’t let him get to you. He dishes it out, so feel free to dish it back. I do 🙂
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I think the notion of the Rapture has two consequences, both of which I saw in my upbringing. First of all, when life got really challenging, and my mom didn’t know what to do, often she’d throw up her hands and say “Well, maybe the Lord will come back today.” This often meant that she didn’t address the issue, or did not rise to a challenge when she should have. This pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking that a problem would disappear into a Rapture was upsetting.
The other immediate consequence I saw was a total disdain for nonbelievers. Those who rejected the Gospel were deemed enemies of God, and deserving of being “left behind” and facing a great tribulation. The theology was used as a way to make the believer feel superior–after all, the believers are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, and all of that. So, there was a real barrier erected between the believers and the nonbelievers.
My own view of dispensationalism/Rapture is that it promotes an image of God that is angry and vindictive. It isn’t enough that the “wicked” are doomed to hell, but that they must endure sheer torture before they are dispatched. The great tribulation is going to culminate in Armageddon, with a huge slaughter. And somehow this war is something God wants? It’s bad enough that the God of the OT sent the Israelites on a killing frenzy, or allowed other nations to go on a killing frenzy against Israel if it didn’t tow the line, but Armageddon makes those slaughters look like a video game. I don’t like God being portrayed as a monster.
This is all subjective, and is anecdotal in that this was my upbringing, but I find dispensationalism not at all a very Christian idea to have.
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Oh, and Julie, I didn’t even get into the issue of how dispensationalism impacts the Religious Right’s attempted [or real!] influence over Middle East policy. And, also, there were fractures between Christians, because there are subsets of belief about dispensationalism that literally turned into ugly fights between believers.
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Bitter fights erupted between churches and individuals when I was growing up. It was important to describe one’s own belief as a pre-, mid- or post-trib along with a millennial or amillennial view. It was all very divisive; also, see my replies to Julie Anne’s questions.
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“Sorry, but I just don’t see your point of view in the Bible. Especially knowing that God made a promise to Abraham, with specific borders. No conditions.”
Don’t be sorry. You haven’t wronged me. We will never see eye to eye on this. That’s okay. I don’t expect everyone to believe what I do. I just wanted to point out that I didn’t reject dispensationalism because someone talked me into doing that, or somehow changed my mind for me. I came to my conclusion on my own, via the Bible. We definitely disagree on how to interpret the passages in the whole of the Bible, not just within each book, or select passages between books.
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KJV knocked those legs out for me. And, I had the ‘advantage’ of being raised by dispensationalist parents who attended a strict dispensationalist church. Ironic that the Bible did it for me, don’t you think? No cut and paste for me, not when I read it in whole cloth.
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Very definitely not a salvation issue for me, but one cannot underestimate the importance of this doctrine as taught in my youth. Dispensationalism is as vital to my former church as Patriarchy is to Reconstructionists. That big a deal is made out of it. Everything I was taught was bound together by dispensationalism.
It’s very difficult to find that you reject something that was hammered into the very core of your brain. It was easier to keep my changed POV to myself, which led to some mental gymnastics along the way. Even now, if I’ve been away from certain family members, I have to recall the “lingo”, so that I don’t stick out like a sore thumb.
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Ed, what an obnoxious thing to say! Your attitude embodies how I was taught in my Fundie years. See, this is why I cannot ever return to fundamentalism. Too much arrogance without much civility. I bet you can’t even see how your tone comes across, can you? You would never quote an article, just your knowledge of the Bible alone. And then you try to make a false choice, as if it is either/or. How about both/and? The Bible and any publication which helps us to understand it?
Julie, if you’re reading this, see how strongly holding onto dispensationalism can affect a Christian? Ed suggests that David C doesn’t hold the Bible in high enough esteem, because David C referred to a magazine article.
I’m done with this, because, believe it or not, these statements are real triggers for me. Heated discussions with the implication that some people are just too dumb to understand the Bible, or that they don’t really revere it. It’s awful.
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Believe me, he pissed me off royally. I did indeed dish it out. If he was trying to be funny, he wasn’t. It’s funny how some issues are triggers for ex-Fundies, while other things are not.
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Sheila – You raise a good point that I want to be sensitive about. At the same time it kind of puts me in a pickle because I love freedom of speech, I also think debating is good and healthy. I told you this subject doesn’t interest me too much and so I only skimmed, but obviously did not read enough to get Ed’s tone and if you can give a timestamp for specific comments, that would help me from having to scroll through them all (I don’t know which “obnoxious” thing you are referring to.
A couple of thoughts in general:
Some people who read here have been affected by spiritual abuse, others have not, but are here because the topic interests them, they want to support others who have been hurt. We cannot expect others to know what triggers us and so if something is triggering us, we need to feel free to say what is triggering us to help people understand where we are coming from.
There will be debates here. I’m fine with that. That’s how I learn and grow and challenge my beliefs. Personal attacks are never cool. If at any time you decide that you cannot continue the debate for whatever reason – please simply say what’s going on. Honesty is always the best.
Those of us who get triggered need to practice some self-care. We have to decide what we are able to deal with so that we can be here comfortably. I know on other blogs, certain people rub me wrong – – maybe their posts are always very long, too spiritual, whatever. Now when I see their name I have a simple solution: I don’t read them. Problem solved.
Generally, this group self-moderates very well. From time to time, I put my moderator hat on and put someone in the SSB dog house for a time out.
If you think someone has crossed the lines and I have missed something, please feel free to e-mail me. I’m also wife/mommy and busy with choirs/praise & worship team and can easily miss something.
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I did not know that about Chuck Smith, David. It’s interesting how certain issues become core for people. Ham = Young Earth Creationism, CJ Mahaney = complementarianism
So in this example I would say: Does the Bible say Believe in dispensationalism and you will be saved?
I think not. Last I checked, dispensationalism should be replaced with Lord Jesus Christ. At least my Bible translation.
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Whoa, that picture is big – – woof, woof!
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Shela0405,
Like it or not, the words “caught up” (Rapture) is indeed in the Bible.
Caught and Rapture is both defined as “Seize”.
And, if you scroll up, I detailed references used with the word “caught” in conjunction with the word “up”. The best references are in 2 Cor 12.
Not everyone goes to heaven, and that is difficult for some to understand. There are conditions. Who gets to go, and why? Who doesn’t get there, and why?
As I have noted in other blogs, the “ignorant” are not unbelievers. Nor are they believers. They are judged by their conscience. Therefore, God does not, nor do I, have disdain for the ignorant. The ONLY non-believers are those who reject the gospel. In a very real sense, the Jews do not reject the gospel. The Jews are awaiting the gospel to happen. We tell them that it already took place, and it is that, that they do not believe. But, God blinded them to not believe in the first place.
Deuteronomy 29:4 Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.
“unto this day” is another way to say, “NEVER”.
Now, see this:
1. Jesus tells his own disciples to understand, but they couldn’t. Why?
Luke 9:44-45 King James Version (KJV) 44 Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men. 45 But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.
2. Jesus tells his own disciples about prophecy of his death, but they didn’t understand. Why?
Luke 18:31-34 King James Version (KJV) 31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. 32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: 33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. 34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
3. Jesus speaking to the Jews.
Luke 19:42 King James Version (KJV) 42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
The key word in those three references is the word “HID”. Many people want to bad mouth the Jews time and time again, saying things like, “They disobeyed God”, or, “God rejected them”, etc.
We all disobey God, even as Christians. How is our life different from theirs? It’s not. How can we judge the Jews when we are sinners right along with them? But the gospel is hidden from them for a reason. And it isn’t their fault.
The disciples did not understand until after Jesus rose from the dead and opened up “the law and the prophets” to them showing everything about Jesus. Then their eyes were opened, and nothing was hid anymore.
I think that people need to re-look at the bible from a spiritual sense, rather than the carnal sense, and see things differently.
There are many people that see God as a vindictive God, mostly based on the OT scriptures, God’s Laws, and the slaughter of not only men, but women and children as well, commanded by God.
But what some people do not get, is that the death of the body means nothing. The location of the spirit is more important than the location of the body.
I hope that I gave you something to look at. Expository preaching, and teaching, exegesis, will never reveal spiritual things. Spiritual things must be dug up, like a treasure, and you cant find those things just reading the bible line by line, verse by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book.
It’s not easy to find answers, but the answers are HID, for you to FIND.
Ed
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Ed – – Did you read through all of Sheila’s comments before your 5:42 comment? I couldn’t tell. If you did – please make sure to honor someone if they say they are done with a debate. That’s really important here. If you feel like you want to wrap up the debate, then go ahead and do that (because there are other readers), just make sure to remove the name and keep the comment directed to audience in general. Thanks!
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Well, I do not see what I said that pissed her off. What I did is to lay out scripture, and definitions.
The word “Fundy” is not where I come from at all. My parents were not religious in any way, shape, or form. But they are Christians. I was not brought up in a hard line belief of anything religious, period.
But, I remember the Palestinian/Israeli thing long ago, say like when I was in the 3rd grade, watching the news, seeing Palestinians throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails at Israelis. That didn’t sit well with me at all.
Then, later in years, learning of the Unbreakable Unconditional covenant that God made with Abraham about a piece of real estate, and the prophecies in regards to the neighbors of that piece of real estate, then I knew in my heart who to support.
Many people in the early part of last century wrote off the Homeland of the Jews…but then 1948 came. There is prophecy in the Bible that the God who scatters, regathers. He was discussing the Promised Land for the Jews.
Yes, that is a hot topic, and we do take a stand. I stand with the Jews, while others stand with the Palestinians. In the end, God decides, not us. And he already decided when he made the promise. That is where I stand, and I do not see how that pisses off Sheila. I do not see how standing up for what you believe in causes triggers of a “fundy” belief, when I never had a “fundy” belief in my life, not even in this regard. No one taught me this stuff. No one. This is not something that was passed down to me by any teacher, preacher, pastor, mentor, or parents. This is something that I learned on my own, with one book, and not any article that I read, either. God’s word trumps in all cases.
Ed
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Hi. My name is Mel and I’m a Catholic. We’re been pretty much assured that all Catholics – en masse – will be left behind. We also have precedent on taking care of animals – look up the stories about St. Francis. So, just make sure you leave a list of your animals with a Catholic neighbor. We’ll take ’em in.
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Mel – thanks for that! Love it. I was at a choral performance last weekend and one of the songs was written to the prayer of St. Francis and I was reminded how beautiful it is.
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Yea, well, you did. She told us you did. You just have to accept that you did and move on.
No, I saw that, too. You’re not fundy by any stretch of the imagination. You are a bullhead on your pet topics, though 🙂 . . . And so am I. haha
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JA,
You said: Yea, well, you did. She told us you did. You just have to accept that you did and move on.
My response: I don’t say this often, but I think I should at this point. I do not feel responsible for her anger or her trigger. In other words, in this particular case only, her anger is not my problem.
In the navy, my office was right adjacent to the stock control office, and they had a sign on their door. It read:
“Poor Planning on your part does not constitute an Emergency on my part.”
In other words, I am not responsible for someone’s poor planning. I am not responsible for her anger. She came in angry.
She commented: ” The great tribulation is going to culminate in Armageddon, with a huge slaughter. And somehow this war is something God wants? It’s bad enough that the God of the OT sent the Israelites on a killing frenzy, or allowed other nations to go on a killing frenzy against Israel if it didn’t tow the line, but Armageddon makes those slaughters look like a video game. I don’t like God being portrayed as a monster.”
Notice that she don’t like God being portrayed as a monster, and yet, Armageddon is a huge slaughter. No, her anger is really not towards me. Her anger is towards prophecy of slaughter, and the God of the Old Test that sent Israelites on a killing frenzy.
She needs to reconcile those issues with God, and not be angry at me.
Ed
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Julie,
I did not know that about Chuck Smith, David. It’s interesting how certain issues become core for people. Ham = Young Earth Creationism, CJ Mahaney = complementarianism
I think it goes something like this. Yeah dispensationalism/complementarianism/YEC may not be a core salvation issue, but the Bible is clear as a bell on it. So if you don’t have that one right, chances are slim to none that you have it right about Jesus. That you don’t have dispensationalism/complementarianism/YEC right is just a tip of an iceberg.
John MacArthur also created quite a buzz when he added premil to the list of essentials. I was there when Calvinism joined the list of essentials back in the late 80’s, and at the 2007 Shepherds’ conference, he added premil. Just like I need to run a security update on my computer every day to keep it from malicious software, we all need a salvation update to keep ourselves in line with the latest and the greatest from these fine men of God.
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Ed,
Context.
Matthew 24 is about the temple then standing.
The NT repeatedly says that *believers* inherit the promises, NOT the physical descendants of Abraham (if you need specific references, let me know).
Not of that is to say that God doesn’t have any plans for the Jews. He also has plans for the Poles, Koreans, etc. He is calling out people from every tongue, tribe, and nation.
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Tia,
Negative. Matthew 24 context is end times.
Ed
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TIA,
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
In context:
Daniel 8:9-14 9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. 10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. 13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
This is discussing the Anti-Christ…the False Messiah for the Jews. That didn’t happen in 70 AD. That is future. Our future. End times.
Ed
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TIA,
Now…here is the slam dunk:
Still in Daniel chapter 8
15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man. 16 And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. 17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
Ed
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