Breaking News: Doug Phillips of Vision Forum steps down from office of president at Vision Forum Ministries.
Doug Phillips has been very influential in the sub-culture of the Homeschool Movement. He was a popular keynote speaker at state-run homeschool conventions, speaking on topics of Biblical manhood, Patriarchy, men taking spiritual leadership of the home, creationism, a proponent of family-integrated churches and full quiver lifestyle. He and his wife, Beall, have eight children. We heard him speak numerous times.
Doug Phillips issued this statement yesterday:
* * *
Statement of Resignation
by Douglas Phillips, Esq., October 30, 2013
With thanksgiving to God for His mercy and love, I have stepped down from the office of president at Vision Forum Ministries and have discontinued my speaking responsibilities.
There has been serious sin in my life for which God has graciously brought me to repentance. I have confessed my sin to my wife and family, my local church, and the board of Vision Forum Ministries. I engaged in a lengthy, inappropriate relationship with a woman. While we did not “know” each other in a Biblical sense, it was nevertheless inappropriately romantic and affectionate.
There are no words to describe the magnitude of shame I feel, or grief from the injury I caused my beloved bride and children, both of whom have responded to my repentance with what seems a supernatural love and forgiveness. I thought too highly of myself and behaved without proper accountability. I have acted grievously before the Lord, in a destructive manner hypocritical of life messages I hold dear, inappropriate for a leader, abusive of the trust that I was given, and hurtful to family and friends. My church leadership came alongside me with love and admonition, providing counsel, strong direction and accountability. Where I have directly wronged others, I confessed and repented. I am still in the process of trying to seek reconciliation privately with people I have injured, and to be aware of ways in which my own selfishness has hurt family and friends. I am most sensitive to the fact that my actions have dishonored the living God and been shameful to the name of Jesus Christ, my only hope and Savior.
This is a time when my repentance needs to be proven, and I need to lead a quiet life focusing on my family and serving as a foot soldier, not a ministry leader. Though I am broken over my failures, I am grateful to be able to spend more time with my family, nurturing my wife and children and preparing my older sons and daughters for life. So, for these reasons I want to let my friends know that I have stepped down as a board member and as president of Vision Forum Ministries. The Board will be making provision for the management of the ministry during this time. To the friends of this ministry, I ask for your forgiveness, and hope that you will pray for the Phillips family at this time, and for the men who will be responsible for shepherding the work of Vision Forum Ministries in the future.
Doug Phillips
(Source)
Updated to add related articles:
- Doug Phillips Resigns from Vision Forum, Cancels Speaking Events, Due to “Inappropriate” Relationship
- End Child Protection: Doug Phillips, HSLDA, and the 2009 Men’s Leadership Summit
- Are Daughters the Biggest Threat to the Christian Patriarchy Movement and Reconstructionism? (spiritualsoundingboard.com)
- On Doug Phillips’ Cultic “Patriarchy” Movement, Under Much Grace blog
- Video of Patriarchy Workshop (video), Cynthia Kunsman, RN, BSN, MMin, ND
- Stop the Ministry Madness, Ingrid Schlueter’s The Hope Blog
- The Heavy Burden of Doug Phillips’ Legalism Leads to His Resignation From Vision Forum, Jen’s Gems – Doug Phillips’ Ecclesiastical Tyranny and Abuse
Spiritual Sounding Board 
I’m so thankful that some of you aren’t the “Ruler of the Earth”. He has asked forgiveness and didn’t even have to tell us why he was stepping down. If God and his family can forgive who are we to cast the stones.
God has used Doug over the years and now he needs our prayers as he rebuilds his home. But I don’t see where God ever says just because the man sins, he isn’t the head of the home if he asks forgiveness.
His family is in our prayers. Thank you for what you have done. And to those that think homeschooling ends here, they are wrong! Homeschooling doesn’t end because I’m continuing on!!!
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Julie Anne
There ya go – readin the Bible again…
Now you know those qualifications for elders are only for show.
NO one in Christian-dumb pays any attention to them today. 😉
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To paulspassingthoughts……..ummmm…..what doctrine can I follow so I don’t fall into sin?
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It is true that a doctrine is not necessarily invalidated by the conduct of one who professes it. So this guy’s conduct does not in itself refute his doctrine, and claiming that it does is to legitimize ad hominem attack, which is so dishonest that the whole world identifies it as such.
However, it is valid to ask why the doctrine didn’t work for him, as it proves unsuccessful for so many others. It happens so often that a systemic problem should be suspected. In my trade, if the thing keeps crashing, you start to suspect the code; it’s not always this or that stupid user.
One problem lying right on the surface is that the church of God is referred to as the Lamb’s wife and the Bride of Christ. That ought to alert leaders that when they start thinking and talking about “my” church, they’re in trouble. They’re diddling the Lamb’s wife. And from Romans 1 and other such passages, we should understand that when we do that sort of spiritual adultery against Christ, then God may respond by abandoming you to such corruption in a way that anyone in the orld can understand. You don’t want to be abandoned to a spirit of adultery ot fornication? Keep your hands of God’s girl! It’s not written for nothing – “God is not mocked; whatever a man sows he shall reap.”
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Ken questions whether Christian leaders are held to a higher standard. Well, it occurs to me that the standards for being overseers and elders are rather high. Among other things they are to be above reproach. 1 Tim. 3:2; Titus 1:6.
As to “wild notions about loving, forgiving, and treating the man with some kindness and mercy,” those things are all very well and good, but I’m frankly more concerned about the man’s victims than about the man himself. Inasmuch as his victims include all the women, probably numbered in the thousands, who have been oppressed as a result of Phillips’ teaching on patriarchy, I frankly celebrate. I do not celebrate the discomfiture of the man, but I do celebrate in the hope that the exposure of the fruit of his teaching, in the person of the teacher himself, may at least help to liberate many who are oppressed on no other basis than their gender.
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@244pm. Hey Julie Anne, yes, they are held to higher standards I believe. In the pastoral epistles, Paul, Barnabas, and Timothy were the people establishing and enforcing those standards–in Ephesus, Crete, etc. We don’t have Pauls and Barnabas’ and Timothys left to appoint our leaders today, and to enforce those higher standards–we do it ourselves, as churches and denominations. My point is that if we/you/us/Spiritual Sounding Board, etc. are not in a position of a) having called Doug Phillips to his ministry, or b) being a part of that ministry (through financial support or attendance), then we should be very hesitant to claim a role of enforcing the “standards” of his conduct–since we don’t effectively have any “teeth” to our supposed enforcer status. Which is why I think it best to withdraw support (if you’ve been supporting a person like this), and leave him alone, simply praying for his repentance. To speculate on the legitimacy of his repentance, or further details of his sin, or of how the woman he’d had the affair with has been treated, etc., seems a bit a waste of time. .
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Julie Anne
How about this one…
James 3:1
My brethren, be not many **masters,
knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
Master – Thayers
one who is fitted to teach, or *thinks himself* so”
In my experience…
“Titles” become “Idols” …..(“Idols” of the heart – Ezek14:1-11 KJV)
“Pastors” become “Masters”……( A big NO, NO, Mat 23:10 KJV.
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Ken
You write – what you think is excellent advice….
“My point is that if we/you/us/Spiritual Sounding Board, etc. are not in a position of a) having called Doug Phillips to his ministry, or b) being a part of that ministry (through financial support or attendance), then we should be very hesitant to claim a role of enforcing the “standards” of his conduct–since we don’t effectively have any “teeth” to our supposed enforcer status.”
—————-
I was wondering why? You do NOT follow your own advice?
____________
I would write it this way… 😉
“My point is that if – you – Ken – are not in a position of a) having called Julie Anne and Spirtual Sounding Board ministry, or b) being a part of that ministry (through financial support or attendance), then – Ken – should be very hesitant to claim a role of enforcing – Ken’s – “standards” of his conduct–since – Ken – does NOT effectively have any “teeth” to – Ken’s – supposed enforcer status.
—————-
Mat 23:24-25
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, **hypocrites!**
for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter,
but within they are full of extortion and excess.
hypocrisy – dictionary
the practice of claiming to have **moral standards** or **beliefs**
to which one’s own behavior does NOT conform;
Ken – I was wondering why? You do NOT follow your own advice?
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I hate being late to the party!
I don’t know why Doug Phillips thinks he should go home and lead his family now, and get his accountability from the leaders at his church.
He forfeited all rights to spiritual leadership of anybody when he comitted the adulterous relationship, including spiritual of his wife. Having a penis doesn’t entitle him to lead. That’s what got him in this mess in the first place, along with his lack of accountability to her.
She’s God’s appointed help in life. He needs to submit to her, be accountable to her, and let her lead him through the process of restoration.
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As to the sincerity of Phillips’ disclosure letter, it strikes me that it may well be what is called a “limited hangout,” which is defined as a public relations or propaganda technique that involves the release of previously hidden information in order to prevent a greater exposure of more important details.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout. As confirmed by the same Wikipedia article, Richard Nixon’s henchman, John Ehrlichman, famously used the term “modified limited hangout.”
It’s just my opinion, but the case could be made that Phillips has joined the ranks of both Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon. I am willing to be proved wrong, but in the meantime, I suggest that the called for willingness to cut Phillips some slack should be tempered by Jesus admonition, “Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.” (Matthew 10:16, ESV)
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@2:58 Gary, “Ken questions whether Christian leaders are held to a higher standard.” Hi Gary. No, I do not question whether leaders are held to a high standard, but simply where in the Bible you found the concept that it is your duty to do the “holding.” I guess this is just one “celebration” I don’t belong at.
@3:03pm amoslove “My brethren, be not many **masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.” That’s not the word James used in his letter. He used the word “teacher,” (didaskalos) since he is beginning a section where he specifically addresses the importance of speech, especially in those who aspire to become teachers, not masters. This is not a section on biblical requirements for elders or pastors, although it certainly applies, IMO. That being said, the question remains: Who do you propose is supposed to do the condemning of those teachers?
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Okay people, I’m seeing a LOT of liberal feminism here! And okaying divorce? sorry but does the bible not mean anything to you? I think it’s pretty extreme to say that the man being the head of the wnife means she’s there to be his welcome mat, or that she’s just a “baby-making machine.” I’m not saying I agree with this guy’s whole doctrine, because I’m not familiar with him. it’s so sad that so many people are preventing and killing their babies with all forms of birth control, INCLUDING the “natural” protection and not doing “it” at fertile times. babies are a blessing, not a
m appendage of yourself, or a hardship! yes sometimes motherhood can be hard, but don’t you think God only gives what you can handle? does He not know best? what’s your excuse?
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Ken
You write…
“That’s not the word James used in his letter. He used the word “teacher,”
Nope – James used “Master”
And I know that because – I’m using the Authorized Version…
The King Jimmy – You know – the one Paul used… 😉
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Ken
You write…
“Who do you propose is supposed to do the condemning of those teachers?”
Well, “If” these so-called teachers had some “Integrity” they would remove themselves – When they realized they do NOT meet the qualifications in 1 tim and Titus for elder/overseer – And be a good example to the flock. 😉
You would agree with that – Yes Ken?
That if a pastor/elder/overseer does NOT meet the qualifications?
They should remove themselves?
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@3:24pm Hey Amos, Blessings to you, brother! I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Thanks for replying. Although I don’t regularly use it myself, I can’t deny that the KJV treatment of the Psalms is some of the most transcendentally beautiful English poetry I have ever read!
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” what’s your excuse?”
Some of us here have done our part to populate the Earth. I have 5 kiddos myself. You make a lot of assumptions. What’s your excuse for that?
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@3:32pm Great points, Amos. In a perfect world, such disqualified leaders would never have let themselves become disqualified.
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Hey Ken
We’re in agreement – Why do you want to be in disagreement. 😉
I gave the definition of “Master” @ OCTOBER 31, 2013 @ 3:03 PM
“James 3:1
My brethren, be not many **masters,
knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
*****Master – Thayers****
one who is fitted to teach, or *thinks himself* so”
In my experience…
“Titles” become “Idols” …..(“Idols” of the heart – Ezek14:1-11 KJV)
“Pastors” become “Masters”……( A big NO, NO, Mat 23:10 KJV.
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Ken,
I don’t think I’m attempting to “hold” Phillips accountable (or anything else) as I celebrate the exposure of rotten fruit. I don’t have the ability to affect Doug Phillips one way or the other, unless I might have some effect in warning others away from contributing to his agenda, to their great detriment.
Further, I submit that we can discuss Phillips’ situation without being guilty of corrupt motives. This is a blog for survivors of spiritual abuse. Many who come here, probably most, still hope to find a meaningful and safe place of fellowship within organized, institutionalized Christianity. They need to be able to discern which religious leaders and programs are and are not safe. They will need to learn to recognize which signs point to danger and which point to safe harbor. What better way to learn to discern than to discuss real live case studies as they present themselves?
Still, I take your observations and concerns as a legitimate warning against indulging any temptation to sample the pleasures of schadenfreude.
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feminist?
Welcome!
Just for the record, I’m a mom of 7. And I’m wondering how some people would be responding to me if my name was Julius instead of Julie Anne.
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When new people show up out of nowhere to start defending Doug Phillips, I believe they’ve made an idol out of this man and his movement. This blog has covered Patriarchy issues before. Why didn’t all these folks contribute to the discussion then?
This isn’t about being “feminist.” It’s about the systemic oppression and abuse of women and girls. I know Patriarchal men who committed incest with their own daughters. But maybe they could help serve Daddy to produce more offspring? Sorry, but this belief system is abusive.
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I thought it was a very femistic thread too, but thought maybe it was me, you know, since my hubby is my head (cuz that automatically makes me a doormat, right?)ROFL!!! right.NoOne who has ever met me would agree! 😉 This is a sad example of Christianity today – nearly EVERYONE is legalistic. The ones on this thread bashing DP are just as legalistic as him. It’s just a difference between conservative legalism or liberal legalism.
Where is the grace? Grace would be saying, “I’m so thankful it’s not me”. Grace would be praying for his family, that they would be restored, not that they would ‘escape’ by divorce…
BeenThereDoneThat, are you regretting your kiddos? 😦 I guess I never felt that I ‘did my part’ to populate the earth…like it was a duty?
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Ken
Was wondering…
Have you ever met any – pastor/elder/overseers? Teachers? Masters?
Who actually paid attention to those tough qualifications?
Or congregations – when Hiring, and Firing -pastor/elder/overseers?
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“BeenThereDoneThat, are you regretting your kiddos? 😦 I guess I never felt that I ‘did my part’ to populate the earth…like it was a duty?”
Actually, I’d have more if I could. Thanks for asking such an insensitive question. I homeschool, too. And, I look Amish. Hardly a feminist. I simply know first hand what rotten fruit Patriarchy produces. And, a good tree doesn’t produce bad fruit.
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So, we are judging a man by one sin? I’m so thankful that God doesn’t condemn me by any one of my many sins. He forgives me as He forgives you as He will forgive DP with his repentance. I don’t think it’s an insensitive question at all…after all, the way we are openly discussing others’ lives, it fit right in…
And no fruit is not without some blemish, no mater how good the tree.
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BeenThereDoneThat, I really am sorry if my question hurt you – it was certainly not my intention! (((hugs)))
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“And no fruit is not without some blemish, no mater how good the tree.”
Got a scripture reference for that one? Your statement contradicts the Bible.
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Ummm, how about we ALL sin and come short of the glory of God?????
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@3:39pm Gary, thank you for your kind words. I appreciate your observation that there are many survivors here, in various stages of healing–and it’s good to keep our eye on that above all–whatever the topic de jour is!
@3:43pm Hi Amos! I’ve run into quite a few different types of leaders and congregations in my day! I’m not sure of your point in the question. Are you wondering if I’ve had any real experience with both biblical and unbibilcal leaders and churches?
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“Ummm, how about we ALL sin and come short of the glory of God?????”
Fair enough. The Bible also tells us that we should “cut off” whatever it is that causes us to sin. In this case, I believe that the Patriarchal system promotes sinful behavior. Women and girls are not the property of men. Fundamentalist Muslims believe this. Does that make them Biblical? There is something wrong with the paradigm of VF.
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@4:01pm “We all stumble in many ways…” ? James 3.2a
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Dana
You write @ OCTOBER 31, 2013 @ 10:17 AM…
“I could certainly never throw the first stone”
Would throwing the second or third stone be any better?
Sounds like you’re throwing a few stones yourself
At Spiritual Sounding Board and the commenters here… 😉
You write @ OCTOBER 31, 2013 @ 12:48 PM…
“Instead of slamming the man, you should be praying for him.”
Sounds like you’re slamming a few folks yourself
Spiritual Sounding Board and the commenters here… 😉
Why is it okay for you to warn SSB? Of what you believe is poor behavior?
But – NOT oksy for SSB to warn others? About poor behavior?
Dana – How come you do NOT follow your own advice?
Double Standard? Or Hypocrisy? – Or…;-)
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Dana
You write @ OCTOBER 31, 2013 @ 1:27 PM…
“But this slander and the joy
some are taking in it is also distorting who God is”
Do you mean “distorting” the God that – Blasted “the Religious Leaders?”
Jesus called out – And pointed out – the “Religious Leaders” Hypocrisy…
Again, and again, and again, and…..
Should we do any less??? Hmmm?
Lot’s of “Woe people” in the Bible – See Mat 23…
Lots of “Religious Leaders” called Hypocrites – By Jesus
Mat 23:27
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, **hypocrites!**
for ye are like unto whited sepulchres,
which indeed appear beautiful outward,
but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
Well – Doesn’t that sound a lot like this guy?
Who desired celbrity – to be well known…
And made himself to apppear beautiful outward – But – full of uncleaness?
hypocrisy – dictionary
the practice of claiming to have **moral standards** or **beliefs**
to which one’s own behavior does NOT conform;
Are your **moral standards** or **beliefs** that you espouse here?
Relective of “Your” comments?
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“So, we are judging a man by one sin?”
No, but I condemn his teaching as being from the very pit of Hell, and I celebrate the exposure of the rotten (not blemished but rotten) fruit that, according to Jesus standard, proves the point.
By the way, I subscribe to the notion that ALL relationships between believers are to be based on love, not authority. It is my view that any attempt to replace love with authority as the mediating principle in Christian relationships is from the very pit of Hell.
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Ken
I asked those questions about “Qualificatios” because…
I’ve noticed, most congregations, most who desire to be a – pastor/elder/overseer – “Ignore” or “Twist” – the “Qualifications” in 1 Tim 3:1-6, and Titus 1:5-9, so they can obtain for themselves this “Title/Position” of – Pastor/Leader/Reverend – That comes today with – Power – Profit – Prestige.
Have you ever wondered why? Paul gives such tough qualifications?
For the potential pastor/overseer? And for their families? That are “Ignored?”
Titus 1:5-8 KJV
5 …ordain elders in every city…
6 If any be *blameless,* the husband of one wife,
having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7 For a bishop “must be” *blameless,* as the steward of God; not self willed,
not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, *just,* *holy,* temperate;
Wow – 1 – Must Be Blameless, 2 – Just. 3 – Holy. Those three are tough – Yes?
1 – For a bishop (overseer) “must be” *blameless.*
That *must be* is the same Greek word. You *must be* born again. John 3:7.
*Must Be* – Strongs #1163, die. – It is necessary (as binding).
*Must Be* – Thayer’s, necessity established by the counsel and decree of God.
Seems to be a small word – but very important. Yes? I
1 – Blameless – Strongs #410 anegkletos – unaccused, irreproachable..
Blameless – Thayers – unreproveable, unaccused.
Blameless – Dictionary – Without fault, innocent, guiltless.
1 Tim 3:2 ASV – The bishop therefore must be without reproach…
1 Tim 3:2 NIV – Now the overseer must be above reproach…
1 Tim 3:2 NLT – an elder must be a man whose life cannot be spoken against.
How many “Pastor/Elder/Overseers,” who honestly examine themselves,
seriously considering this one **qualification,** (*Must Be* **Blameless,**)
can see themselves as **Blameless,** without fault, above reproach,
and thus qualify to be an “pastor/elder/overseer?”
And if you can see yourself as **blameless:** Is that pride?
And no longer without fault? Oy Vey! 😉
Aren’t ALL the requirements important? Which one’s can we ignore?
When you believe the lie you start to die…
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I’d just like to point out that it’s pretentious for Doug Phillips to sign himself “Doug Phillips, Esq.” Not only are these not legal documents**, as far as I know, Doug doesn’t practice law. Maybe he thinks “Esq.” impresses some people, but it’s really inappropriate. I have the same degree Phillips has and I’ve NEVER signed myself “Southwestern Discomfort, Esq.”
**All the legal documents I’ve seen signed by working lawyers, they don’t use “Esq.” It’s pretentious.
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Not too long ago I had a discussion with one of Doug Phillips’ disciples. When I criticized his teachings, this other person took great umbrage at my supposed personal attacks on Phillips as a person. To this person, to criticize Phillips’ ideas was to attack him personally. I had to go to great lengths to make the point that I was not attacking Phillips, only criticizing what he stood for.
Maybe what is happening on this thread isn’t so blatant, but several seem to be offended on Phillips’ behalf. To me, the strong emphasis on defending Phillips, as opposed to his ideas, is evidence that he has been set up on a pedestal. This probably doesn’t apply to everybody who defends him, and maybe it doesn’t apply to anybody who has contributed here today, but I am concerned that many may have made Doug Phillips, the man, into something of an idol.
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Sorry for the Phillips family. My father loved Vision Forum and the patriarchy movement, and the authority it supposedly gave him. He ended up having multiple affairs and living another secret life. I pray that Doug truly repents to the Lord and humbles himself. Looks like he’s on a good path.
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Doug has much to repent for including his dishonesty towards Joe Taylor, Angela Hudson, Tom DeRosa, Eric Wallace, the original American Henty re-publisher along with a large list of others that have been affected. I have my doubts if Doug is a Christian as well. We ourselves have been at the knifes edge of Doug’s ‘defined argument’. My prayer is that all those that have shielded Doug’s misdeeds will also take this opportunity to repent and apologize to those that have been harmed by this man and his narcissistic personality. Please visit raisingthetruth.com to read one of the bullying chapters in his life. Hopefully Doug is not just defining the argument for his own gain. My son and I will never forget Doug’s own words at the Witherspoon School of Law and Public Policy, when he said: “He who defines the argument wins!” He is after all a lawyer and used to using ‘lawyerese’ to best others in business deals..
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Wanna know the bottom line here? Doug Phillips, a “Christian” leader who made his living and name promoting biblical patriarchy and family, by his own admission couldn’t keep it in his pants, either literally or in his mind, and had a sinful relationship with a woman not his wife. He betrayed his wife and family, harmed another (mystery) woman, and made a public mockery of his beliefs and faith. He is subjecting Christ and the Bible to international ridicule at this moment. He is disgusting. Nothing more needs to be said.
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What I am interested in knowing is whether any Church discipline is enacted. The Church at large has failed in this area. We need to remember that Church discipline, with a consequential suspension from privileges such as sitting at the Lord’s Table, is a means of grace used to restore penitent sinners.
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Kim, your response is harsh and unbecoming the gospel of God’s grace. “Let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.” We are all disgusting apart from the imputed righteousness of Christ and the cleansing efficacy of his atoning death.
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Sean, welcome!
I have been wondering the same thing. And of course the big question I’d like answered – – is he stepping down from eldership (pastor) at his church?
Another point is that people are saying that Phillips is repentant. I truly hope he is, but it’s a little too early to say that. We can tell true repentance by fruit evidenced. Let’s see what things look like in 6 months and 1 year, etc. After all, even Phillips stated it was a lengthy relationship.
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“This is a blog for survivors of spiritual abuse. Many who come here, probably most, still hope to find a meaningful and safe place of fellowship within organized, institutionalized Christianity. They need to be able to discern which religious leaders and programs are and are not safe. They will need to learn to recognize which signs point to danger and which point to safe harbor.”
This is why *I’M* here. 🙂
“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.” Hosea 4:6
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SW Discomfort:
You believe that Doug is not a lawyer?
I read over at JensJems, which was eye opening to say the least, and I pray that Beall Phillips is not treated as she has treated others. According to Beall, marriage problems are almost always the wife’s fault. Her own counsel to and treatment of Jen, who was in an abusive marriage, was terrible.
Jen also mentioned that Doug is not ordained — yet rules a church!
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I did not slam anyone on here, just pointing out the double standard and how it is OK for ssb to slam an individual, but yet others can’t?
I always tell my kids that they shouldn’t dish it out if they can’t take it 😉 😉 😉
I hope that those on here who are angry, bitter, or vengeful (I’m not saying any names or calling everyone on here that, after all, I don’t see hearts, but God does), can get to the point where they can direct their feelings in a healthy manner. I was there once. Everyone sins, everyone has pain, everyone has been hurt by someone. Forgive as you want to be forgiven, and let the anger/hatred stop with you (Eph 4:29, Mtw 12:36, Prov 6:16-19 – just because another has committed an abomination doesn’t justify our committing another).
I have a life, and it’s not slamming Anyone, nor is it sitting in front of a computer screen… so, my best wishes to you, and goodnight. 🙂
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Hey all: Welcome to those who have just stopped by. Just a note about moderation. In general, I am not quick to remove comments, even if I do not agree with them. After being sued by my former pastor for defamation because I spoke out about abuse, I absolutely believe in people exercising their right to free speech. That said, and because this is a hot topic for some, things will probably be said that are not grace-filled or kind. When Jesus was overturning tables, would people call his comments gracious or kind? No. That is righteous anger. There needs to be righteous anger when someone assumes a position of leadership, tells others how to live, how to behave, and they do the opposite. This guy is a pastor.
Doug Phillips is a figure of public interest. He has put himself in the public spotlight and his words and character are of public interest and will (and should) be discussed.
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He was just being inconsistent. It does not discredit the movement.
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“I have a life, and it’s not slamming Anyone, nor is it sitting in front of a computer screen… so, my best wishes to you, and goodnight”
Wow, that is a neat trick. You will have to tell us how you got your comment here without some sort of “screen”, :o)
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Ethan – – why do we need a “movement?” We need Jesus, not a movement.
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Just for the record I didn’t say all are feminist just that some who don’t believe that the man is the head are.
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Well, I’m glad you cleared that up 🙂
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FOr those here who still think Doug Philips and his “ministry” have led to more Godly families, you should check out this true story that was published this summer:
http://www.amazon.com/Fake-Someone-Happy-daughters-patriarchy/dp/1291461981/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383266903&sr=8-1&keywords=fake+someone+happy
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” Ithought it was a very femistic thread too, but thought maybe it was me, you know, since my hubby is my head (cuz that automatically makes me a doormat, right?)”
Not if you understand the common usage in the 1st Century of the word, Kephale. But if you are a Phillips’ follower, it is doubtful you do. And it would not matter because in your construct, you are perpetually deceived anyway.
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Take a look at this list from Focus on the Family on infidelity.
http://www.focusonthefamily.com/marriage/divorce_and_infidelity/affairs_and_adultery/danger_signs_of_an_affair.aspx
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feminist?,
From your comments, I am under the impression that you are a woman. If this is correct, where is your husband? Isn’t he the one that should be commenting here? What about your pastor(s)/elders? Where are they? Are you not submitted to them? Are you not familiar with Paul’s prohibition of of women teaching men? Surely you recognize that a number of men participate here. Indeed, inasmuch as the great majority of us here are members of His church, and inasmuch as this is a public place, why are you speaking at all?
I apologize in advance if you are male. In that case, however, please know that, while a woman, maybe, can say the things you say, I find that your comments, coming from a man, are very demeaning toward women. You objectify them.
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“And no fruit is not without some blemish, no mater how good the tree.”
Got a scripture reference for that one? Your statement contradicts the Bible.
”
that is what is so great about their “religion”. Since your very existence is sin it hardly matters. So the false dichotomy is “sinless perfection or totally wicked”. See, you cannot help but sin because you exist. That is why what Doug does will never matter. Jesus hung on the cross so we could just keep on sinning while proclaiming Him.
Too bad for them it is not true. And it is considered “humble” to brag about being a sinner…as it just makes you a better Christian to sin.
I say, quick! hide the silver!
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Maybe the relationship is being promoted as “emotional” only because she is underage? There is a lot of creepiness in Patriarchal circles when it comes to young girls.
Oh and don’t forget, Doug is also one who said women with ectopic pregnancies were aborting the child if they were operated on.
http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=12978
Seems Doug poses as a medical expert, too. Doug is one stop shopping for all your thinking needs. :o)
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That doesn’t surprise me, Lydia. Another close friend of his is Kevin Swanson who told women that if they took birth control pills, their wombs were filled with dead embedded fetuses.
Kevin Swanson’s words:
When I tried to contact Swanson, he didn’t respond. He removed my post on his Facebook page. He eventually removed the broadcast with no retraction or apology.
https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2013/02/04/kevin-swanson-spews-nonsense-from-his-mouth-to-further-his-agenda/
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He wasn’t spewing nonsense from his mouth Julie. Wrong end.
😛
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I myself am familiar with Paul’s word about women teaching men, and also with paul’s guidance about how to understand his writings. For instance, he explained in 1 Cor 5:9 that when he wrote not to associate with evil men he had not at all meant the evil men of this world, but only so-called brothers – since otherwise they would have to go out of the world.
How do you know, Gary, that you’re not making the same error. It is certainly absurd to say that women are never to teach men, because then what do you do with Huldah, Deborah, Sarah straightening out Abraham, or Abigail straightening out David? What do you do with Priscilla?
Actually, pal, you would do well to figure that it’s not your place to tell another man’s wife how to relate to him, when there’s no evidence that he has a problem with her. It’s kind of like telling her how she should fix her hair to please her husband. Isn’t that, like, his business and not yours?
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 01:13:13 +0000 To: peter.attwood@hotmail.com
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“Actually, pal, you would do well to figure that it’s not your place to tell another man’s wife how to relate to him, when there’s no evidence that he has a problem with her. It’s kind of like telling her how she should fix her hair to please her husband. Isn’t that, like, his business and not yours? ”
A woman came here and made comments that were “teaching” a position and rebuking others here– which included men who disagree with their construct. Perhaps what you really mean is that Gary should not respond to what is obviously cognitive dissonance in that movement? This is a blog, Peter. It is set up for public discourse. Perhaps the perpetually deceived wimmens from that movement should take that into consideration when they step outside their Stepford bubbles.
Besides, I would guess these patriarchal wimmens are commenting here under the male “authority covering” magic head umbrella that makes it ok to rebuke the reprobate men outside of their bubble. It is one of the non thinking ironies of that movement.
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“When I tried to contact Swanson, he didn’t respond. He removed my post on his Facebook page. He eventually removed the broadcast with no retraction or apology.”
Maybe he is still trying to find a doctor to confirm his bizarre medical theories. Perhaps he should try Argentina? :o)
People actually believe these men which is even more scary. I expect to find charlatans but it is the people who stick with them that scare me the most.
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from Southern Discomfort: “I’d just like to point out that it’s pretentious for Doug Phillips to sign himself “Doug Phillips, Esq.” Not only are these not legal documents**, as far as I know, Doug doesn’t practice law. Maybe he thinks “Esq.” impresses some people, but it’s really inappropriate. I have the same degree Phillips has and I’ve NEVER signed myself “Southwestern Discomfort, Esq.”
**All the legal documents I’ve seen signed by working lawyers, they don’t use “Esq.” It’s pretentious.”
First met Doug Phillips 21 years ago. For 21 years I have thought the same thing you expressed. Pretentious doesn’t even begin to tell it.
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Maybe it was the closest thing to a Title of Nobility he could claim?
After all, every Larry, Moe, and Curly screaming behind a pulpit already has Honorary Doctorates (which they sign “Dr.” at EVERY opportunity); he had to stand out somehow. (What’s next, get crowned “King” with a “Holocaust Torah” so he can sign himself “Doug R” and be addressed as “Your Majesty”?)
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Is that anything like “No True Scotsman” plus “The Party Can Do No Wrong”?
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Didn’t people say the same thing almost immediately about Todd Bentley and Jimmy Swaggart?
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Note for Christians: May I suggest reading John 8 before casting judgmental words into this blog. Christ alone is worthy – not any man, woman or child. Let nothing unwholesome come from you. Build each other up in Love. God alone will judge. The greatest commandment of the Gospel of Jesus Christ for the believer is to love God with all of their heart, mind, soul and strength, and to love our neighbor as yourself. Pray for this man that God would work in his life as he did for King David. The same David that had the faith to drop a giant, but would later become a murderous adulterer. The same David that God chose to send Christ though his lineage. A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.
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Or Douggie has a LOT of sock puppets on the Web.
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Wow, lots of comments…just skimming here. I agree with whoever said that this was likely not the only thing going on, he’s just making a public admission of something fairly minor while they try to keep the real mess under wraps…but even if it is the only thing, it’s pretty awful.
He doesn’t sound repentant, only sorry he got caught. My dad had the exact same kind of affair, for four years, and even if there’s no physical relationship – which in our case, at least, I’m fairly certain there wasn’t – an affair like that can still destroy a family. This looks like the exact same behaviour and response pattern we dealt with, and it was another six or seven years before my dad actually seems to be showing signs of true repentance and change. Which I kind of doubt is going to happen in this case.
I feel sorry for his family. He’s almost certain to take it out on them. Especially his wife – she’s going to get the ultimate blame for him even having the affair in the first place.
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But Peter,
I’m just demanding that feminist? be consistent. If feminist? is a she, and where she lectures on the supposed sin of avoiding the procreative act during a woman’s fertile time, she is obviously in the same camp that reads Paul the way I am reading Paul back to her. If feminist?’s husband has a problem with my challenging his wife for daring to instruct us in contravention of her own all-but-apparent creed, then let him control her access to the Internet, or else let him be a man and make his appearance here. We could use another case study.
Still, in case you haven’t quite figured out where I am coming from, I am all in favor of women commenting here, just not women who, though audaciously exercising the feminist ideal of women’s freedom of speech, come here to instruct on the evils of such “errors” as feminism. No no. With thanks to Sue for having taught me a new word, I do not condone patriocentric women lecturing men, or speaking in public.
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Bridget,
I know Doug has been a lawyer (I don’t believe he’s practiced in some years). It’s just pretentious as can be to sign yourself “Doug Phillips, Esq.”, on something that is not a legal document. Lawyers don’t even sign themselves as “John Doe, Esq.” on legal documents. It’s just that every time he signs himself “Esq.” I know he’s arrogating to himself a title that regular, everyday practicing lawyers do not use when signing their names. But it’s quite doubtful that the very small community he runs in knows that it’s gauche to use “Esq.” the way Doug does. That is all.
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Gary: “where is your husband? Isn’t he the one that should be commenting here? What about your pastor(s)/elders? Where are they? Are you not submitted to them? Are you not familiar with Paul’s prohibition of of women teaching men? Surely you recognize that a number of men participate here. Indeed, inasmuch as the great majority of us here are members of His church, and inasmuch as this is a public place, why are you speaking at all?”
Seriously?!
What an arrogant, self-righteous bag of hot air!
If you don’t like what you see here, Gary, move on down the road to the ‘holier than thou, God loves men more than women’ bunch you belong are more comfortable with.
Why are you here speaking about anything at all since you are such a bold-faced misogynist?
(Sorry if this was inappropriate, Julie Anne. Delete if you think so. I don’t know why I still get stunned at arrogant dweebs like Gary. They are everywhere and think they are entitled to spew their false view of how God views women where ever they go. It’s nauseating.)
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Mara: Go thru and read Gary’s earlier comments. I think you are misunderstanding him. He is responding like that for a purpose. I know Gary. He is usually one of the first guys to call out a guy who is acting misogynistic with me (even before I realize what is actually going on).
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Apologies to Gary and all if I have fallen for and taken seriously him showing absurdity by being absurd. Can’t always tell when that’s going on. Should learn to lurk a while before I shoot my keyboard off.
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ok.. SOOOOOOO many of you guys have ZERO idea what your talking about. The man over the woman “philosophy” (if you will) is not as a lot of ya’ll assume. There is a Huge difference between Authority and Worth. If your boss is in a position over you that does not make him more intelligent, willing, or important than you.
And another thing…So many of you guys are so willing to jump on the internet and start blogging about how wrong he is, how wrong the Patriarchal that these people have is wrong, and how you are all now REALLY justified in your “Christian”, everyone does everything the same crap. Stop acting like a bunch of lost people looking for a fight in a very sad and broken situation and pray for this dear family!!!!
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We cross posted, Julie Anne, I began to second guess my first post and came back to do some damage control.
I apologize again, to Gary personally.
Have been spending too much time dealing with hostile situations and am too quick to jump in.
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Ah, no problem, Mara. And I’m sure Gary will understand. He completely gets it.
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Gary, anybody is entitled to say anything. If their argument is bad, you can refute it. Telling them they should shut up about anything because they’re women or whatever is attacking the person instead of the argument. Ad hominem attack is dishonest, and it doesn’t get better by being adorned with religious garbage.
You can leave the woman’s husband out of it, because he has no objection to her expressing herself, whether you like it or not. If he does object, it’s up to him to say so, not you.
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Did anyone notice how many “I”s there are in the statement? Contrast that with no asking for prayer for the other woman involved?
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If there’s something wrong with what some woman is teaching, lydiasellerofpurple, then show what’s wrong with it, instead of documenting how she’s wrong to be teaching or rebuking. Even a dumb ass has been known to deliver a rebuke from God, so if you’re honest, you can refute the argument, instead of dodging that job by attacking the woman who makes it.
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Hi Mara,
Actually I’m thrilled that you responded they way you did. Your response was exactly what it should have been, given that it could not have been particularly obvious to you that I was not speaking generally. The sad thing is that feminist? quite likely belongs to a camp that whole heartedly agrees with the challenges I issued to her. Or at least they would agree with the propriety of my challenges had I been addressing a woman with whom they disagreed.
Assuming Lynnedepthlook is female, as would appear to the the case from the spelling of “Lynne,” she is another one who, by lecturing here, appears to be violating the principles usually associated with the patriocentric application of Paul’s writings. It is not according to the Bible, but according to standard patriocentric heresy, that one might think it legitimate to ask her the same questions that so deeply (and rightly) offended you.
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I thought it was a very femistic thread too, but thought maybe it was me,
yeah, whenever female survivors of domestic abuse congregate, we tend to sound a little like feminists. You know, with all that “men shouldn’t treat their wives like garbage” legalistic craziness.
oh and the part where we recognize false repentance in men because we’ve seen it up close and personal a million times in our own lives, and we’re experts on it. Whereas you, nestled in your safe enclave with a husband who doesn’t abuse you, show very little concern for Doug’s family – the actual victims here.
worry less about Doug’s reputation taking another beating, and worry more about his wife and kids and what other things they’ve likely been suffering at his hands all these years.
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Sorry Peter, but when patriocentric women come a lecturing, they are violating their own reading of the very Pauline texts upon which their notions of male authority over women are based. I would whole heartedly agree with you that even patriocentric women have a right to speak, and that on their own, except that in doing so, they are being hypocritically inconsistent with their own views.
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What if they are? Even Jesus stuck to the questions when dealing with the Pharisees and scribes, and only when no one dared to ask him a question was he free to take their up their hypocrisy as he did in Matthew 23.
Refute their errors convincingly enough to silence them. Until then, stay away fromtheir persons, as Jesus did. An important figure in the faith, worth imitating in his argumentation as in other things.
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So, Peter, you would have me take the same measured approach to hypocrisy as Jesus? Lets see what that looks like:
“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. (Matthew 23:13, ESV)
“Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. (Matthew 6:2, ESV)
“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. (Matthew 6:5, ESV)
“And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. (Matthew 6:16, ESV)
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. (Matthew 7:5, ESV)
But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? (Matthew 22:18, ESV)
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves. (Matthew 23:15, ESV)
Doesn’t look too gentle to me. And that’s just a sampling. But maybe you’re right. Maybe it would be better to simply start calling people hypocrites, just like Jesus did.
Well, here goes. Inasmuch as you admonish me to imitate Jesus as to His form of argumentation, you are guilty of rank hypocrisy.
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Ken said,
Not me. I’ve been waiting my whole life until marriage to have sex, and I haven’t married yet, and I’m a bit past 40. These patriarchy groups, and a lot of regular, garden variety gender complementarian groups, and heck, most of conservative Christianity, teach or believe directly, or indirectly, that unmarried people, especially single women, are sexually promiscuous.
(Some Christians also teach or think that to be truly mature, and to be completely in God’s image, that one must marry. They think there is just something wrong about singles or adult singleness.)
We single ladies in particular are thought to favor bedding married men, to intentionally target married men, so married Christians warn each other about not allowing a married man to be alone with an un-married woman at all for any reason.
The assumption I’m going to jump a married guy and sex him up on virtue only of being unmarried is very insulting. The assumption that I’m not as much in God’s image as a married person, or that I’m not as mature or as ethically sound as a married person, is also insulting.
So, do I sometimes chuckle or roll my eyes, every time I see stories of “family focused,” or “traditional family supporter” sort of guys who fall into extra marital affairs, the same ones who promote prejudices against singles or singleness? Yep, yep I do.
I am single. I’m not having emotional or sexual affairs. I’m actually doing the thing these people preach at the rest of us to do, but that they fail to do.
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I am cautious whenever there is talk about patriarchy.It rubs me the wrong way much of the time,however,I live in a very modern world.We,as 21st century women have had so many freedoms that we cringe at the word ‘submission’.I think of just how cunning satan was in the garden of Eden and how easily Eve was deceived.Are we actually being deceived as well? It’s a question I ask myself.Bottom line is this…we are all slaves to Christ Jesus if we claim to belong to Him at all.As for Doug Phillips,he is just a man,a sinner like the rest of us.It is we,who make note of him,putting him on a pedestal when we give our ‘opinion’ of him.I believe the Bible and am driven to the Scriptures and Jesus when everyone starts ranting ….it is the only real place,the only truthful place to stand.
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Adding this link to the post: http://jensgems.wordpress.com/2013/10/31/the-heavy-burden-of-doug-phillips-legalism-leads-to-his-resignation-from-vision-forum/
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Well, no, actually, I cited that very scripture, pointing out that Jesus talked as he did in Matthew 23 only after he had silenced them, when it got so no one dared to ask him a question. Look it up. It’s not hypocrisy, rank or otherwise, to abstain from blipping over such crucial details in the Book. They’re there for good cause.
Gary, there’s nothing wrong with you busting people for their hypocrisy or anything else once you have honestly disposed of their arguments as Jesus did in this instance. Attacking them instead of their arguments is so dishonest that you’ll get punished for it in any court of the unjust.
We should at least come up to the standards of the godless world in this matter. Or do you think that denouncing people as hypocrites or otherwise reviling them instead of engaging their arguments is actually persuasive? if you wouldn’t dare to talk to opposing counsel like that in a hearing room in the presence of even an administrative hearing officer, is it really OK to do so before God?
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Ken Unruh,
the Bible calls Christians to judge other Christians. Please see 1 Corinthians 5 and other passages that tell Christians to use discernment, to be aware of false teachers, etc.
By his own admission, he’s done something wrong, so I don’t know why you would fault Julie Anne for passing along the information.
Hannah Thoma wrote
If I understand what you mean… that was similar to what Driscoll said when preacher Ted Haggard was caught in some kind of affair.
According to Driscoll, if only the wife had kept up her looks (and put out more, I think – I can’t remember if that was part of what he said), then Mr. H would not have strayed. I believe Driscoll later claimed on a radio program that he never really blamed Mrs H for Mr H’s affair, and that his comments were misconstrued or misunderstood.
If Driscoll really thinks a woman putting on weight or whatever is an excuse for a husband to cheat, well, Driscoll has been looking more and more pudgy and bloated the past couple of years, so his wife, Grace, hey, if she happens to stray, M. Driscoll should be totally understanding about it, right? He should be hitting the gym more, the beer less, going by his own logic.
ar10308, you’re one of those people who twists Scripture and totally upholds codependency for women as though it is a virtue, when the Bible condemns codependency.
Men are easily deceived too (look at how many buy into patriarchy / gender complementarianism for example), and some men even teach false doctrine. Apostle Paul and Jesus warned of false teachers… that would include male false teachers.
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sunshinemary said,
The bible does not teach that wives are to submit and obey. The term “submit” is often used by gender complementarians to mean the same thing as “obey.”
If you are married, your husband is to serve and defer to you as Christ did to the body (Ephesians 5:25 – your husband is to serve you, not the other way around), and your husband is to submit to you:
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ (Ephesians 5:21)
sunshinemary said,
Another reason why this teaching is dreck: it fails to acknowledge that 44% of adults in the USA are single. That includes many Christian women.
Your gender views revolve totally around married women and married men. This is an outcome of the idolization of marriage and family, which Jesus Christ taught strongly against in passages such as Matthew 10: 18-21, Matt 10: 34-37, Matthew 12:46-50.
Paul also didn’t over romanticize or over value marriage, see 1 Corinthians 7:8.
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HUG said
Not just that, but Jack Schaap (IFB preacher) hates women, or is very, very sexist.
He is strongly into “biblical womanhood,” and he wrote a dating advice book (for sale online) telling women stuff like not to wear dark eye shadow because it makes them look like harlots. There are videos on You Tube of him proudly announcing from the pulpit during the sermon that he would never ever accept teaching from a woman ever, ever – he sounded very angry and hostile when saying that.
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Ken said,
It’s in the Bible.
“Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.” (James 3:1)
1 Timothy 3 also lays down qualifications for Christian leaders, eg Overseers and Deacons.
Are you saying just any ol’ person should be allowed to be in a position of high responsiblity in the body of Christ when the Bible itself does not teach that, but that Christians should use discernment when selecting elders, preachers and other roles?
1 Cor 5 also tells you to give the boot to anyone who says he is a brother in Christ but is living in unrepentant sin. “…hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh…”
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@ His Child.
Forgiving someone does not mean absolving them of any and all responsibility for their sin.
In the case of the IFB preacher we were talking about above, who went to jail for having sex with an underaged girl, maybe he asked forgiveness, but that does not mean he should not face civil authorities for his sin and crime.
If this Wilson guy were to get drunk tomorrow, get in a car, then crash his car into a family of four killing all of them, are you saying it’s enough for him to just ‘seek forgiveness’ or ask for it, and everyone should just forget about it?
He should not have to do jail time, or face any other sort of temporal penalty at all? He should not have to face any sort of negative consequences at all?
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Dan said,
The Bible teaches that Christians are both fully justified and sinners, but that sanctification is an ongoing, lifelong process, which means you are “saved” but will continue to sin every so often.
What you seem to be suggesting is rather creepy, as though you are saying sin in the life of a Christian is always inevitable. The Bible says Christians have the Holy Spirit in them, they are new creations in Christ, and they are capable of self control.
Where this kind of thing gets me annoyed, as someone who has not had sex yet (and my libido is normal, God did not “gift me” with celibacy), is I got this far with no sex by self control alone. But guys in Christianity, especially preachers, act like remaining sexually pure for decades, is an impossible feat for normal, mortal humans.
You seem to assume that sin (and I guess sexual sin too) is a given in the life of a Christian, and I’m proof that it is not.
I’m not claiming absolute perfection, but I also do not rob banks, mug granny ladies, or steal candy from babies. It is possible for a Christian to consistently live a clean life, I did not say sinless perfection at all times, but relatively clean most of the time, yes.
I know Christians who are the same way – didn’t abuse drugs, didn’t sleep around before marriage, more or less lived clean life styles most of the time.
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@ feminist? said,
Goodness knows that is how many gender complementarians teach it or believe it, yet many of them live “functionally egalitarian” marriages – by their own admission. You’ll see it in comment sections on blogs, guys who say they are gender comps but who sometimes let their wives lead in the marriage where ever the wife is stronger or more skilled.
I didn’t understand the rest of your post.
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Dana said, So, we are judging a man by one sin?
I sure as heck am, as a single who tires of “pro family/ pro traditional marriage” guys like him who perpetuate stereotypes against singles, either directly, or indirectly by continually upholding marriage as being the only “godly” role a woman may have, or as though it’s the norm for everyone… and yet, he has slipped up in the marriage and/or parenting role.
What ministries does this guy have meeting the needs of the never married women or childless women in his church who are over the age of 30? How does he meet their needs? Or does he spend all his time paying attention to fatherhood, motherhood, marriage and family?
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feminist said, feminist?
OCTOBER 31, 2013 @ 5:53 PM
Just for the record I didn’t say all are feminist just that some who don’t believe that the man is the head are.
Hmmm. I don’t consider myself a feminist and disagree with secular feminists quite a bit, but I also do not agree with those in Christianity who have made an idol out of the male gender (patriarchy guys and many gender complementarians), they tend to assume “head” in that verse translates to “boss over” or “authority over.”
Jesus Christ taught that husbands are to submit to their wives (Eph 5:21) and that his followers are not to lord authority over one another.
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Julie Anne, does this Kevin Swanson person realize that some women take birth control for reasons having nothing to do with babies and sex? Because it sounds like he’s clueless about that.
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@ John said God alone will judge.
Actually, no, Christians are called to judge other Christians, see 1 Cor 5, 1 Corinthians 5:12
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
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