The following has been posted at on the websites of those signing the call to a repentance process for Tullian Tchividjian, and shared on social media. It was posted approximately 11 a.m. (Eastern time). Twitter handle links and blog posts of the “Call” after the names were not in the original statement. They have been added for reference purposes, for those who may want to track comments and responses.
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“We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ.” — 2 Corinthians 10:5
A Call to Repentance
Dear Friends:
We join with others in expressing our shared grief regarding these latest allegations, as well as our thankfulness for the courageous women who came forward to tell their stories. We join our prayers together that they will receive the care and support that they need to heal and move forward in their lives.
In the wake of the initial revelation in June of 2015 that Tullian Tchividjian had engaged in an inappropriate sexual relationship, a group of pastors and friends reached out to him in accordance with scripture’s clear admonition in Galatians 6:1–2:
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
In the months that followed, we were encouraged that Tullian seemed committed to walking a path of healing and renewal through repentance under the authority of his church of membership. However, later disclosures, and these most recent allegations, cast grave doubts over the sincerity of this commitment.
Inasmuch as Tullian Tchividjian has habitually and impenitently used his public platform, his family’s good name, and the name of Christ for his own selfish ends, we believe that he has disqualified himself from any form of public vocational ministry.
For the sake of his eternal soul, we implore Tullian Tchividjian to repent of his wickedness and demonstrate his repentance by submitting himself to the leadership of his church of membership, pursuing forgiveness, healing, and reconciliation with those whom he has sinned against.
We send our plea to Tullian in a spirit of gentleness and with broken hearts.
May Christ have mercy.
Pastor R.J. Grunewald [@rjgrune] [RJ Grunwald]
Pastor Kevin Labby [@PKLabby] [Kevin Labby]
Pastor Matt Popovits
Pastor Donovan Riley
Pastor Chris Rosebrough [@piratechristian] [Captain’s Log]
Pastor Scotty Smith* [@ScottyWardSmith]
Paul David Tripp [@PaulTripp] [Paul Tripp]
Mrs. Elyse Fitzpatrick [@ElyseFitz] [Elyse Fitzpatrick]
Mrs. Kimm Crandall [@KimmCrandall] [Life in Words]
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*According to a note from Warren Throckmorton, “For undisclosed reasons, Scotty Smith dropped out of this effort.” This change is reflected in some of the repostings of the statement.
Spiritual Sounding Board 
Too little too late?
Why did it take TT’s victims speaking out before they renounced TT? Surely they had access to these women’s stories prior to the last few weeks? Surely they were in a position to reach out to them?
So why wait to renounce TT until now? Because it’s all public now? So you can’t really blame me for wondering whether this isn’t just about them “saving face”.
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YES.
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It’s never too late to repent., but true repentance is always accompanied by works of righteousness.
True repentance will include asking forgiveness of those he has offended.
If TT can’t pull that off, then he has not repented.
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I am very sorry, but this list means basically nothing, knowing the shaky and (false) theological (patriarchal, women-demeaning) foundations of many (Tripp, for one, in my opinion, a dangerous false teacher) of the associates. Also, it has a very clear please-notice-us-please attention alert written all over it.
Sorry, not impressed or even fooled by this “letter.”. Have seen this over and over for many, many years. The pot calling the kettle…
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I’m going to disagree with the general tone of the comments so far and say that I am very thankful for this announcement. Is it perfect? No. But I believe it is sincere. It makes a clear statement about Tullian’s unrepentant behavior, in so doing provides the necessary warning to the church at large that he cannot be trusted. To my knowledge this signed, group ‘unendorsement’ is unprecedented in the evangelical world.
I hope that it moves other Christian leaders with thoughts of the own accountability. May it be the beginning of a new awareness within the evangelic community in which those who have enabled, approved, and abetted wolves–even unwittingly and in good faith–live up to their responsibility as shepherds, and accept accountability for not guarding the flock.
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There is absolutely nothing to gain by protecting Tullian now. He is long out of TGC, for example. He is out of the bringing in money game.
Wonder where these guys were on Mahaney?
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Keep in mind that pastor bullying, lying, manipulation, using people for personal gain, seeking celebrity are ok but never ever, sexual misconduct.
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I would say that J.A., Brad, the Deebs, Nate et al, left these folk with little opportunity other than to respond to the truth to cover their own behinds. Left to their own devices, without the truth-tellers — silence.
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Lydia, I am with you, hence my comment.
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Is it? I don’t know, but it doesn’t seem this is the first time there has been sort of collective agreement that someone is ‘out’.
I do appreciate formal statements, but they wouldn’t have been necessary if people weren’t still inviting/paying/fawning over this man. It is interesting to see what it takes to get a formal NOPE.
Most telling, though, will be to see how long this lasts. 6 months, a year,or more.
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I looked through the names–lots of Lutherans for whatever reason–and one dumb question on my part is whether any of these people know TT besides Paul Tripp. A call to repentance–hey, I’m good with that–but somehow it seems that it’s going to take either his extended family or his donkey (Numbers 22) to get his attention. It will be especially difficult if in fact his new wife is a former paramour. One is called to flee fornication (including adultery), but if his new wife committed adultery with him, that’s just a mess.
Not that it wasn’t a mess before, but an even bigger mess. Praying.
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The pastor’s who have discernment ministries on this list perhaps aren’t as discerning as they accredit themselves. Their credibility as greatly diminished as far the Christian industrial complex goes, and will stop listening to the gonging voices of a few listed here.
And the women within the visible evangelical church have the gall to correct and criticize those whom love their soap operas via television. Seriously, all we need to do is watch the Nicolatian system that is worshiped before us within these 501c. 3 churches……clergy class and rank leadership hath its privileges.
Will cling to the One True Shepherd: Jesus, the Christ.
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@Bike Bubba. If you look at the Christ Hold Fast conference for 2016 and 2015, and Christ Hold Fast podcasts, you’ll see almost all of those same names on the docket as featured speakers.
(Tullian Tchividjian was on the Christ Hold Fast podcast February 5, 2015, a few months before all the revelations started pouring
Also, if you want to expand your research on these individuals, check out the acknowledgment statements in Tullian Tchividjian’s books and you’ll see him thanking some of those individuals, and/or they show up in the endorsement quotes for his book.
These are not random people who are unconnected to Tullian Tchividjian. So, it took some movement on their part to sign on to this kind of a public statement, and I genuinely appreciate their fortitude and efforts in doing this.
However, their significant level of connection also means they were not mere passive bystanders in what became the “Tullian Tchividjian Industrial Complex” of books, speaking events, social media promotion, etc. So, I am hopeful that each of them, and others with similar levels of connections will also make public statements owning up to any specific ways that they come to realize that they personally served as active enablers to promote and protect the platform of Tullian Tchividjian.
Some have already done this with public statements via Twitter, posts on their own blogs or Facebook, comments on threads posted by others. Some have also worked behind the scenes in ways no one reading social media may ever know, but the Lord knows and those they reached out to know, and have been encouraged. I’m sure we who are survivors of spiritual abuse would want such statements and actions to be full-on, 100% transparent … but the reality is, people may not yet see how their advocacy and enablement of malignant leaders helped to crush and silence victims. I pray they’ll come to see that in the long run.
At any rate, that kind of conscientious consideration of personal culpability could be equally significant in the long-run need the Body of Christ has to shift the focus from drastic intervention after the fact to as much prevention as we can infuse into our personal relationships with others and our institutional infrastructures. Otherwise, this will never be a one-time thing; it will be a constant spin cycle for Christians and the churches because we will keep promoting those who present a persona of being “qualified” to represent Christ and Christianity, when in fact their character and patterns of behavior “disqualify” them — definitely for the time being, and potential permanently from a public platform.
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To my knowledge this signed, group ‘unendorsement’ is unprecedented in the evangelical world.
I don’t recognize any of the names, but the majority of them put their e-mails, signifying that they are open to feedback, and they must mean something in the world of TT. I don’t need to know who they are if they are important enough to TT to invite some kind of remorseful response.
Not holding my breath, either.
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Yes, Brad, and also it is important to keep in mind that many of these folks were connected with Liberate and Tullian’s “grace” message.
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Indeed.
From my perspective in the cheap seats, Tullian had not harmed me. No one owes me an apology. What I really hope for is that people would become wiser from this, and in turn be on the lookout not to enable someone similar in the future to hurt others.
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I find it highly ironic that they signed the letter off with ‘Pastor’ and assumed that they all meet the definition of Galatians 6:1 “you who are spiritual”.
Haha!
Christianity is so entertaining.
Meanwhile on the throne: our Lord is scratching His head.
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Thanks, Brad. Still hoping for the donkey, tho.
Side note: what is up with Paul Tripp’s Mr. Rogers look?
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Salty, yes, the ever important “pastor” title struck me too. Sigh, ever the humble-pious-worm type, they are. I am scratching my head too, Salty. And it ain’t even itching.
Oh, what a circus; oh, what a show. As I said, I don’t buy their after-the-fact, please-look-at-how-pious-and-caring-we-are performance one bit. Not. At. All.
Wait till the next abuse, in whatever form, in their belief system comes along (probably happening as we speak, sadly), and you’ll see what I mean. These guys are so good at hiding evil and covering up fort one another that it is beyond nauseating…until they’re outed and shamed by the likes of Julie Anne.
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Lea,
I can resonate with your response as the cheap is always the most comfortable. Never followed TT’s pastoral ministry, nor his church, nor anything that came out of the Graham family. I believe I haven’t missed anything and relationship; following and believing in Jesus Christ for my salvation is working itself out just fine.
Seems to me via God’s Word, that Jesus dealt pretty harshly with the scribes and important clergy class of His day (we call them pastors today), much, much harsher than He did with the lower laity who were thirsty for His Word. Signing via “pastor” doesn’t impress those of us who have been spiritually abused by conservative church systems who claim to love Jesus, yet display over and over again, it’s all for their personal gain/adoration/worship/idolatry. Lord, have mercy.
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I just added this post by Nate Sparks to the Resource Bibliography, and it addresses some very important points. Please read it …
December 5, 2016. Sparking Conversation. Several More Pastors and Leaders Call Tullian Tchividjian to Repent, by Nate Sparks. While Nate is glad for the call to repentance, he also voices specific concerns about some of the individual signers and their networks, and how they/those have negatively affected efforts to bring this situation to light and bring healing to survivors.
https://natesparks130.com/2016/12/05/several-more-pastors-and-leaders-call-tullian-tchividjian-to-repent/
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Julie Anne,
I hope this is an encouragement to you—that all the work you and your team does is making a real difference. We all know that none of this would have happened if you guys hadn’t done what you do best. 🙂
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Thank you, Avid Reader. Brad was certainly co-pilot in this endeavor. He has been awesome. Did you read that, Brad? 🙂
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@Avid Reader … thank you! I’m glad to know this brings hope …
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An important comment from GWInsida, worth reading for how it addresses why this statement being public is important, plus for details on the connections three of the signers has with Tullian Tchividjian and how he used them.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2016/12/05/new-public-call-pastors-friends-tullian-tchividjian-leave-ministry/#comment-3036805083
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Boy, that’s a good comment! Thanks, Brad.
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Reblogged this on Speakingtruthinlove's Blog.
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True validation will be when Steve Brown joins the call for repentance. Steve, god (not man) up and do what’s right please.
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A bit off topic but you know I have a lot of respect for folks like Rob Bell after his book Love Wins raised such a ruckus and some church give and take he walked away from his church. I am sure my simplistic rendering leaves out many issues and I am also sure some folks were hurt by the situation, to be honest. But I give him that. One other thing if as many pastors leaders in the evangelical church took as firm a stand against abuse as they did against Mr. Bell there would be a great deal less of this going on in leadership.
I found this video and I have to admit I liked it. Sorry for the off topic post
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I see a lot of hope for the future.
The pastors used excellent discernment and acted within a few days to publicly address sin, and show they care more about Scripture and character than about celebrity.
This full story was picked up by the Christian Post. . http://www.christianpost.com/news/multiple-pastors-call-on-tullian-tchividjian-to-repent-as-source-says-his-mother-gigi-graham-is-saddened-by-sex-scandal-171930/
And Christianity Today, which routinely sweeps under the carpet clergy misdeeds, in my opinion, did a half-hearted update of an old March 2016 article.
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If all churches obeyed 1 Corinthians 5:5, 11-13 abusers like Tullian would not have been enabled to continue molesting Christians. The abusers like Tullian, CJ, Driscoll, etc would have been put out of ALL christian fellowship way way earlier than they were. And any attempt of theirs to start a new ministry would have been scorned and denounced by all the church. But the church we see today is not the church. It is the ‘c’hurch. Abounding in wolves in sheeps clothing and naive sheep who are being led astray and bewitched by the wolves.
The ‘c’hurch almost 100% ignores what 1 Corinthians 5 says we should do to discipline heinous sinners.
The letter writers invoked Galatians 6:1-2 as the grounds for their conduct in ”getting alongside” Tullian to supposedly encourage him in his supposed “repentance”. I bet they didn’t even think for a moment about how 1 Cor 5:5,11-13 counterpoises with Galatians 6:1-2.
Does anyone agree with me? Does anyone else care about 1 Corinthians 5? Am I wasting my voice?
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Barbara, I agree ☝️
Perhaps if they also took Paul’s excellent advice to “Imitate me” they’d get a full time job working with their hands so they wouldn’t need to mooch off (burden) the people.
Then money could be used to help, you know… the widows and orphans instead of pay for glorious temples with marble bathrooms and orchestras to dazzle the saints.
We’ve come a long way from biscuits and a cuppa over a few Psalms and a sing song at Jerry’s house.
“Come out of her my people” seems appropriate.
If you believe John’s revelation is worth hearing and heeding.
(Requires actual reading of Scripture) 🔥
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Boston Lady.
You mean the 🐑 lady, don’t you? 😎
🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑
Or maybe we should call her Shepherdess/Pastrix.
Oh, I forgot… God only uses men to guide and protect his people. (No, im NOT talking about Sermons on Sunday ha)
God has his shepherds.
And the hirelings flee.
(TT fled, did he not?)
😆
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“The pastors used excellent discernment and acted within a few days to publicly address sin, and show they care more about Scripture and character than about celebrity.
This full story was picked up by the Christian Post. . http://www.christianpost.com/news/multiple-pastors-call-on-tullian-tchividjian-to-repent-as-source-says-his-mother-gigi-graham-is-saddened-by-sex-scandal-171930/”
I highly doubt it was “picked up”. More like “sent” to the Christian Post.
What is sad is how many non titled Christians saw through Tullian while the signers were still on the Tullian train. Yet people feel like they need Christian titles for affirmation. That is part of the problem. The titles are either lacking discernment or worse.
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Let’s not forget this is scandal number three. They have ALREADY had knowledge of being duped by Tullian but accepted him back and importantly some of them went after people who said stop, wait, this guy shouldn’t be in ministry.
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“J. Smith on December 5, 2016 at 4:39 PM
True validation will be when Steve Brown joins the call for repentance. Steve, god (not man) up and do what’s right please.’
Statements like this really bother me. It is exactly what is wrong with the Church today.
I don’t know who Steve Brown is and I don’t care who he is. The Church does not need his validation nor the validation of these people who wrote books and spoke at conferences with TT, and signed this statement.
The abused women and men who have warned the Church about TT should be enough for the Church to deal with TT. Why does no one have a voice in the Church except those with celebrity status?
This is the travesty in the Church today.
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Amazing how Tullian’s victims express personal sorrow and remorse over being sucked in by this man. They also show an understanding of how their situation has hurt others. But Tullian just keeps ticking along in his own little “me” world. He doesn’t appear willing to step back and do some soul searching. Instead, he is like a human whirlwind that sucks up anything and anyone in his path. Speaking at a church-check. Remarrying-check. Claiming he has made restitution-er, not so far. Claiming others have told falsehoods about him-check.
While his ex-wife exhibits such class and discretion, Tullian continues to be a public embarrassment to his kids. How can he parent them while he lives with his new wife in Texas? Tullian’s behavior only teaches his kids how to “cover their ass”, not repentance, when caught in sin. I hope they see that it’s not working well. Nope, not well at all.
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And yet, every one of his defenders I’ve seen has tried to say something about them not being innocent. THEY are the only ones here acknowledging any culpability. You can see the difference between their statements, self reflective and humble, and his.
This is an excellent question. I am glad people are speaking out, but the ones who noticed all of this before should have been listened to rather than discounted. There is a lesson there, for those who wish to learn.
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IMO, his statement blaming Kim for his indiscretions to the Washington post made it obvious who he really is. All of the people noticing now should have noticed then.
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Some homework brings a statistic that 30 percent of pastors have had affairs with parishioners. From FOF–focus on the family maybe?
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Barbara, i don’t understand how it works. Should these women have been kicked out as well? If we look at the biblical example of tamar she was sinned against and getting the heir that she needed and was promised to her. And yet acting as a prostitute wasn’t righteous. I don’t see the discernment in the church to get the abuser out before the abused fights backs and gets the blame–especially if the abhser has any authority. Looks like authority is just being male too.
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“But Tullian just keeps ticking along in his own little “me” world. He doesn’t appear willing to step back and do some soul searching. Instead, he is like a human whirlwind that sucks up anything and anyone in his path. Speaking at a church-check. Remarrying-check. Claiming he has made restitution-er, not so far. Claiming others have told falsehoods about him-check.”
Just give it time. I predict we will be treated to a big Repentance propaganda campaign by some big name. Probably Robert Morris. And many will claim that those who refuse to forgive and forget his past are the real sinners.
Keep in mind this is all Tullian knows how to do and he needs a stage. Badly.
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Barbara,
Heck, no, you are NOT wasting your voice at all, so please blast your message as wide as possible; I enjoyed it. The list of abusers you mentioned is just the tiny tip of the huge iceberg in the “c”hurch; oh, believe me. Of course the church today is not the church; what we’re dealing with in this specific instance is a manmade monstrosity that has nothing in common with the Bible; it’s a sick club of some worldly sorts or whatever. And it’s dangerous for everyone concerned, the main victims being women and children. The only “church” these abusers will get a foothold in are the “churches” their like-minded pals/wolves/deceivers are running with their iron hands and cold hearts and where “repentance” and “grace” (both concepts as interpreted by their various man gods) are thrown around like a frisbee.
Salty,
Yes, I mean Sheep Lady, but she (and her crack team) is doing so much good that I simply cannot call JA that, not even jokingly, knowing from where the term originated. There, I feel sick simply thinking of these wolves and deceivers whom I believe to be perverts in many different degrees. This blog will be recognized, maybe not by man, but by God.
I know it’s been said many times, but vote with your feet/purses and get out of these places run by these deceivers. You may just live to tell the tale, physically and emotionally. Been there, BTW.
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Barbara, it seems like 1Cor 5 is only for the little people. Somehow it never gets applied to those with status/power/position. Hypocrisy- yes.
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Julie Ann, Brad, the victims and a few other bloggers have done all of the hard work on this issue. The signers of this declaration do not seem to have done the same work but rather are now in the position they must take a stand because of what has been made public- by others. Would they have ever taken this stand otherwise? Would they have ever done the work of finding out what really happened, themselves?
Don’t get me wrong, I am glad that when push came to shove, at least these few have landed on the right side of the issue. That is something to rejoice over. I will be watching to see how it plays out from here.
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Irene,
While Barbara would probably be better at answering those questions, I hope you don’t mind if I share some thoughts as well.
That’s an interesting point that you raised. There’s so many things in the Bible that on the surface don’t make sense until we dig deeper.
There’s a pattern in the bible where some men in authority are quick to rush to judgment in confronting women’s sins, even while they are guilty of doing the exact same thing.
Look at how Jesus confronted this double standard head on when He rescued the woman caught in adultery from the mob that wants to stone her.
Then look at how Simon the Pharisee is offended at the woman who comes to worship Jesus, bringing the most expensive thing she owns to give Him. Yet Simon is still upset that Jesus hasn’t slammed her for all of her sins and Jesus turns the tables on him.
(Also see Hosea 4:14 where God confronts this double standard)
Going back to the story of Judah and Tamar….again we see the double standard where Judah was quick to condemn her even while knowing that he was guilty of the same thing. Judah immediately demands punishment for her—but she totally outsmarts him—exposing what actually happened.
Could this story be a warning to us about double standards and the need to be ready to make our case with evidence so when when the abuser comes after us we can reveal what actually happened? Just some thoughts.
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I was thinking of warning about the dangers of using Tamar (Genesis 38) as an example, given that we really don’t understand levirate marriage these days, but given that Judah’s guilt was worse, probably apropos. Tamar had the right to a son by Onan, who used her basically as a sex toy, and when God killed Onan for that, she had the right to Shelah when he grew up. Judah denied her her right, and then was her only “customer” when she played prostitute.
I can see some parallels here, really. Use ladies as sex toys, but do not give them the rights of a wife. A man who does that gets all the guilt of adultery and fornication, plus the guilt of depriving the women he sleeps with of the rights of the wife. Yikes.
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Lydia said,
I agree completely, and this is what I am expecting to see take pass some time over this next year.
This is the Standard Operating Procedure for these guys. It’s from their playbook.
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They have ALREADY had knowledge of being duped by Tullian but accepted him back and importantly some of them went after people who said stop, wait, this guy shouldn’t be in ministry.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Foolish one, don’t you know what being a (pseudo) Christian celebrity means? It means you have no accountability, thousands of benighted sheep will simply erase your hypocrisy from their minds. You get to act as if your public statements, the lies you told, the debris you left behind made up of people who were trying to warn you all along, the ones whom you dismissed or destroyed, get to stay ignored, broken, discarded, it is as if it never happened–and you get to pretend now you’re the knight in shining armor, the one with the discernment who saw through the lies of the pastor-gone-wild.
Example: Christian celeb Matt Niceface ridicules, condemns and attempts to destroy anyone who dares to point out the obvious truth that his dudebro, fellow Christian celeb Dave Goodguy, is really a pathological liar who’s been sleeping with sundry wives of elders while embezzling from church accounts. Matt lifts up Dave as a paragon of virtue and tries to ruin the life of any blogger or parishioner who maintains otherwise. When it turns out in a year or two that everything the bloggers were saying all along was completely correct and that Matt had been blaming the messengers while supporting an evil sociopath, he comes out with a statement condemning Dave and calling him to godly repentance, and he gets to pretend that nothing ever happened–he gets to completely forget everything wrong that he’s done. If you point it out to him, he blocks you (actually, he probably did that already), if you persist, his followers come running to make your life miserable and condemn you for pointing out that their god, their idol Matt, was just plain wrong and just plain mean to those telling the truth (“Have you saved 20,000 people in your mega this year like Matt? Are you without sin? Bet your’s is far worse! have you no forgiveness? Are you even a Christian?”)
That’s the way it works in the work of idolatry.
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Hi Irene, thanks for your comment!
I’ll paste it here so we all can follow and not misunderstand. You said:
“Barbara, i don’t understand how it works. Should these women have been kicked out as well? If we look at the biblical example of Tamar she was sinned against and getting the heir that she needed and was promised to her. And yet acting as a prostitute wasn’t righteous. I don’t see the discernment in the church to get the abuser out before the abused fights backs and gets the blame–especially if the abuser has any authority. Looks like authority is just being male too.”
First of all, the story of Tamar and how she was sinned against and then acted as a prostitute is only a narrative — a story that happened to those individuals, Tamar, Judah etc.
A Principle of Biblical Interpretation:
It is wrong to assume that a biblical narrative gives any commandments or precepts for how the people of God ought to behave. Many crummy bible teachers have given the folks in the pews the impression that we can read a biblical narrative and extract a commandment from it that tells the people of God how they ought to live. But that’s just false.
Biblical narrative often depicts people behaving badly, or behaving in morally questionable ways. So when we read a narrative in the Bible we need to use the overall counsel of God in the Bible, with the guidance of the
Spirit Who indwells us, to understand what wisdom we might learn from that particular biblical narrative.
In the case of Tamar, she was wronged by Judah. And Judah in the end recognised —and proclaimed!— that she was more righteous than him. I think we can wisely learn from that narrative that Tamar’s acting as a prostitute, while not necessarily displaying full righteousness, was in fact the creative and judicious response of a woman who had been dealt grave injustice. And that response of Tamar’s was in the end beneficial, in that it brought about a righting of the wrong done to her and it causesd her oppressor (Judah) to publicly vindicate her.
What a wonderful story of how the oppressed can judiciously respond to injustice, and how their responses can sometimes turn the tables on the unjust, so that some measure of justice is delivered in the end! And look at how creative and thoughtful Tamar was: she had worked out beforehand that if she obtained some of Judah’s personal possessions as ‘payment’ for her sexual service, she would be able to expose him later and hold him accountable. That is not the conduct of a regular and chronically sinful prostitute; it is the conduct of a very intelligent and judicious woman who had been badly mistreated by someone who ought to have given her godly honour and due care!
In contrast to the story of Tamar and Judah, 1 Corinthians 5 gives actual commandments to the church. Paul isn’t merely telling a narrative, a story about what happened. Paul had received a report from believers in Corinth who he knew and trusted; he knew they were honest and cared for the health and wellbeing of the church. They had reported that a member of the Corinthian church was doing a heinous sin. Paul didn’t wait for a public prosecution and conviction of the man who was sleeping with his father’s wife. Paul simply believed the report from the Christians in Corinth.
Furthermore, Paul didn’t think he had to come to Corinth to assess the case for himself before he could tell the Corinthian church what to do about that man. Paul just told the church, by letter, what they should do. He gave them an instruction, a commandment: “Put that man out pronto, hand him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. And do it publicly so that all in the church know what is being done. Tell all the Christians that they must not even eat with that man.” (my paraphrase)
And then Paul took this further. He had commanded the church what to do with that man. Then he applied the commandment more generally, so the church (and we) would know how to deal with heinous sinners. It would be wrong to think that we as the church can only apply immediate excommunication (disfellowshipping) to a man who is sleeping with his father’s wife. We must apply this principle of immediate excommunication more broadly than that, and Paul spelled out exactly the kinds of heinous sins we must apply it to. There are six heinous sins we must apply it to. I’ll put them in all caps here, so they stand out:
Do not associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of SEXUAL IMMORALITY or GREED, or is an IDOLATER, REVILER, DRUNKARD, or SWINDLER—not even to eat with such a one. (1 Corinthians 5:11 ESV)
And look up the word “swindler’ in the blue letter bible. The KJV translates that word as ‘extortioner’ – (i.e. ONE WHO TAKES BY FORCE).
So that means a person who uses stand-over tactics, a person who kidnaps, steals, or uses a pattern of coercive control, intimidation, manipulation and threats to maintain power over his target …. which means — an abuser.
The women Tullian abused are not to blame. If any of those women want to personally confess some guilt for their conduct (like one of them has done) that’s up to them and I won’t nay-say them. But they are not to blame for being manipulated and sucked in by Tullian. The blame for that lies entirely in Tullian’s court. And blame for leaders who helped Tullian remain in the church as pew sitter and then a leader and public speaker, … that blame rests with them because to the extent that Tullian’s heinous sins had already come to light, to that extent those leaders are to blame for not obeying the commandment Paul gave in 1 Cor 5.
Sorry for the long comment, but hope it helps. It wouldn’t have to be so long if the church at large had had better teachers in the past….
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So one has to wonder if Elyse Fitzpatrick believes Mr Grace Loving Antinomian actually does exist now.
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“LJ
DECEMBER 5, 2016 @ 9:43 AM
I’m going to disagree with the general tone of the comments so far and say that I am very thankful for this announcement. Is it perfect? No. But I believe it is sincere. ”
That’s because you haven’t actually gotten the full picture – at least one of these guys that I know has attacked people who tried to call their attention to the fake repentance. He issued statements immediately on the release of new information, all the while claiming he knew what was going on better than the rest of us because of his ‘friendship.’ Now claiming he didn’t have much communication w Tullian after the initial blowout and nothing since April. But that didn’t stop him from attacking Tullian’s critics (and his own, for his defense of TT and a similar pastor Daniel Price) even after the 2nd set of allegations in March of this year.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160513075324/http://www.piratechristian.com/fightingforthefaith/2016/3/damn
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When these guys say “We were wrong” maybe this statement will be more powerful. Until then I agree with the commenters that say it just looks like saving face. I don’t doubt they do want Tullian to repent, however. But will these guys repent of having smugly dismissed, and sometimes mocked and bulled Tullian’s critics?
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Shy1, I’m curious to know — have you ever known of a case where a church invoked 1 Corinthians 5 as the grounds for them disciplining an individual? If so, what were the details?
I’ve heard of many cases where churches were supposedly implementing Matthew 18. I don’t think I’ve heard of a case where a church implemented 1 Cor. 5.
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I agree that in the story of Tamar and Judah, one of things we can see in it is “a warning to us about double standards and the need to be ready to make our case with evidence so when when the abuser comes after us we can reveal what actually happened.”
And I agree that the Bible shows us many examples of the double standard:— namely, how the assumption of [unearned] male privilege is widespread in this fallen world, and how often this does harm to women.
— well said, Avid Reader 🙂
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“And I agree that the Bible shows us many examples of the double standard:— namely, how the assumption of [unearned] male privilege is widespread in this fallen world, and how often this does harm to women.”
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
The ones it does the greatest harm to is men. They think they have some innate superiority because of chromosomes, they dismiss godly counsel from women, they demean and degrade the ones whom God made in many respects superior to them, capable of seeing their stupidity and warning them (a la Zipporah) and they go blithely and blindly to pieces–or to hell.
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Interesting. Someone linked Chris’s previous response to Tullian and I just read it.
Now, since he showed here and signed on to this letter, he obviously knows he was wrong.
I have some thoughts about how its bad to rush to judgement about ‘judging’, but I want to think about it some more.
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I must confess I haven’t always agreed with the way the Spiritual Sounding Board has handled exposing abuse, but I have to say that the recent exposure of Tullian has caused pastors to stand up and pay attention and I’m very thankful for the results I’ve seen thus far. Reading these stories has opened up a lot of pain for me, but they’ve also caused me to think a lot about what happened to me in my own spiritual abuse story and why. And doing the hard work of processing all of this pain, has enlightened me as a victim to the truth that can keep it from happening to me again. So I have to thank you guys for the role you’ve played in all of that. Also, thank you Julie Anne for challenging leaders to learn from this. I pray that they will! https://ourunseenhope.com/2016/12/07/what-can-we-learn/
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Thank you, liztinnea. That is one of my greatest hopes – that leaders learn from this.
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Lea, you are hitting the nail on its ugly, hypocritical darn head. Birds of a feather… As I’ve said, this list of “pastors” and whatnot is utterly meaningless; a cold, stinking fish after the fact, and does it reek!
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I am out of the loop. I had no idea Rosenborough had been defending Tullian so emphatically and so recently. Yikes. He had the same info we had which wasn’t “primary sources” at the time. It was obvious Tullian was using people and throwing his ex wife under the bus publicly. I mean just basic decorum and integrity should made that clear.
It’s the ministry protection racket. Until…. it becomes too embarrassing and might hurt followings and income
. Within the last few years, the Neo Cal movement bloggers started pretending like they had never partnered with or promoted Driscoll. Funny how it works. Makes one wonder why it has to get so bad first. Lots of passes if you have the pastor title.
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I’m guessing by ‘primary sources’ he was getting info from Tullian or people who were close to him. The problem is that your ‘primary source’ can still be a liar. Which Tullian had already proven himself to be, by March.
I hope if anything, the people who DO learn from this incident will learn not to be so quick to dismiss the critics. Maybe they will hang back and say hey, I don’t know what happened but what makes sense? Shouldn’t I wait and see what information comes out before I go hard after those critics? Maybe I should be proactive and talk to more than the men who I am defending! Maybe I should seek information from sources who aren’t biased towards my way of thinking already. Maybe I should examine statements with a critical eye.
How kind and pastoral was it of Tullian to go the washpo and tell everyone his wife had an affair first? What did this tell us, maybe, about his character?
What are the odds they arrested that random pastor for child molestation without decent evidence?
Should we really let someone back in ministry when the only reason they apologized is because they got caught????
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Lydia, I had primary source documentation, but couldn’t disclose it at the time. That’s why I strongly urged Chris to stop promoting TT, that he was wrong to do so.
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Wow, I’m late to this party!
I, too, have real problems with the call to repentance. I think @truthdetector’s analogy is right on. These people were duped, and they made harmful public statements supporting TT and throwing the brave people who stood against him under the bus. I don’t think a “call to repentance” even scratches the surface of what they need to do. They need to repent, themselves, of their own culpability and actions in this.
They recklessly abetted him, without searching out the truth. Tripp, for example, threw Kim under the bus, while publicly supporting TT. Given Boz T’s response, it’s clear that he did NOT spend any time understanding the perspectives of those TT hurt, or even other voices calling for his repentance, but instead took everything TT said as the gospel truth.
For Tripp, at least, it calls much of what he has written into question. His writing exudes confidence in his knowledge of counseling, his approach to counseling and his wisdom in counseling. Yet, his actions speak louder than words. He SUCKS at counseling. Here are some books that should go in the trash:
How People Change
Instruments in the Redeemer’s Hands
Relationships
Sex & Money
What Did You Expect?
I’ve said before, I think this exposes a huge blind spot in conservative Christianity. Emotions (mostly anger) are singled out as a sinful response, and those who can appear emotionless, or especially have the “right” emotional expressions can get whatever they want.
Evidence:
– Pastors who have been restored after these types of indiscretions. Despite the “facts” of these people being disqualified, they can portray the “right” emotions and convince the world that they really, despite all the Bible says, be restored to leadership.
– Countless women and children whose anger (“wrong” emotion) at being abused led them to seek help and justice from the church, only to be dismissed, ignored or even disciplined themselves.
– Leaders (like those above) who can make emotional non-apologies, point the finger at someone else’s sin, and then retake their seat as the inerrant mouthpiece of God.
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Mark said:
What are you referring to here, Mark? Can you send me a link? I do not believe this to be accurate at all.
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@Mark // @Julie Anne. On August 26, 2015, Paul Tripp posted a statement with his opinion that “his [i.e., Tullian’s] marriage is irreparably broken.” I can’t find the exact response from Boz Tchividjian at the moment, but if I remember right, it was a tweet that said things were far more complicated — implying Mr. Tripp [not Boz Tchividjian] was the one who “did NOT spend any time understanding the perspectives of those TT hurt …” Hope that clarifies this … If I can locate the tweet, I’ll post a link.
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P.S. Isn’t it curious that Paul Tripp’s statement said “his” [i.e., Tullian’s] marriage was irreparably broken, and not “their” [i.e., Tullian and Kim’s] marriage …?
That seems to be one way to “control the narrative,” by integrating the sentence around “him,” rather than “them.” As if he is the one in possession of the marriage, not them.
Even if unintentional, it still comes across to me as insidious under further examination …
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Not curious at all. Tullian is the only one who mattered to Tripp.
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https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2015/08/26/is-paul-tripp-violating-counseling-code-of-ethics-in-releasing-statement-about-tullian-tchividjian/
Maybe my statement wasn’t clear. I was saying, given that Boz weighed in on Tripp’s comment, it seems that Tripp did not do the truth seeking required to make the statement he did.
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FYI, the link to Tripp’s statement from the post above now links to the call for repentance. http://www.paultripp.com/articles/posts/tullian-tchividjian-divorce
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Ahhhh, sorry Mark, I misunderstood your comment. Yes, you are correct. My apologies!
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Found it! Here’s the link. It’s from August 26, 2015, in response to the post by Paul Tripp about Tullian’s “irreparably broken” marriage.
In it, @BozT says:
@PaulTripp There is so much more to this tragic story, which makes your statement very disturbing.
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Oooh, I just saw Chris’s snarky tweet about primary source evidence that his ‘director of ministry development’ isn’t ‘ministry’ and I want to bring up that one of the huge problems we are dealing with here is RANK arrogance on the part of all the ministry bros and their broshood and bros codes and so on and so forth.
A little humility is in order. And not the kind that comes from reading books by people described by other pastors as not humble at all.
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Lea,
“A little humility is in order.” I agree. However, the word “humility” and “pastor” are not cohesive and I personally have never met a humble pastor.
What would a humble pastor look and sound like?
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Katy,
I’ve known several humble pastors over the years. They are out there. They’re just usually not as well known because they aren’t trying to grab the limelight.
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I imagine they would act like Jesus –or at least try to.
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Coming in late, but re-reading the letter, it strikes me that the first repentance ought to have been by the writers; “we’re sorry, we thought we knew the guy, and in our earlier interaction with this sat situation, we blew it. We ignored clear signs that Tullian’s story was not on the up and up, failed to corroborate key parts of the narrative, and ended up hurting his victims, Tullian himself, and finally our own reputations. For this we apologize and beg forgiveness, which we have asked through those who are interacting with the victims.” Or something like that. Then proceed to analyze why they got it wrong, how, etc.. I think a lot of it has to do with my (admittedly dumb) question above; they simply weren’t in the same state to receive the 90% of communication that wasn’t verbal, just like Mark Driscoll’s accountability team.
Thought #2; in discussion of this situation, it is somewhat distressing to see vague words such as “affair” or “indiscretion” used instead of more concrete words like adultery. I would even suggest that this is part of why they missed things; if you permit vague language, you will end up with vague communication that fails to address what really went on. We fundagelicals can be really good at this, sad to say.
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@Bike Bubba, re: your comment on vague language, I’ve been thinking about that as well. I think part of what happens is that someone who intentionally wants to avoid getting caught can couch their behaviors and pseudo-apologies in vague language. Listeners fill in with specifics and definitions that are on their own personal radar, because people don’t always think to ask questions, or follow up in seeking specifics. (Actually, those are crucial to critical thinking aka “discernment.”) So if someone says, “I regret many decisions and actions of the past two years,” think how much that not just “lets” the listener fill in the blanks, but “expects” them to. I’m seeing it as a control-the-narrative strategy. It sounds very sincere and genuinely apologetic, but in fact is a slick tactic to evade challenge and correction.
That is why, in the kinds of research-based writing I do, like case studies, it tends to be dense with specifics. I often add executive summary sections, or analysis sections, to get back to the big picture so there’s a context to the details. But the (potentially) dry-as-dust details are where those who seek to shirk responsibility and accountability tend to meet their match. The details arise out of evidence, and points and patterns emerging by lining up the pieces of evidence, seeing how they fit together, looking for potential contradictions. So, having the physical evidence and the words of primary source people — i.e., witnesses — makes it quite clear in asking questions: “Did you do ABC on date MNO with woman XYZ?” The answer is either Yes, or No, with no more fill-in-the-blank. Specifics shine the Kingdom Klieglight onto what’s otherwise vague and hidden in shadow.
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Hang around with Brad and you can learn lots. Who needs Wikipedia when you have Brad?
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Thank you everyone for a thoughtful discussion. Mark, i LOVED those books by Paul Tripp! They were the first bit of teaching i could get when i was so hungry for the word. Grrr…
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Irene, I think I may have a Paul Tripp book on my shelf somewhere.
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Brad, Mark, JA, I give you all bravos and pats on the back. 🙂
Here is a post of mine that relates to what you’ve been talking about:
The Language of Abusers who Portray Themselves as Victims: Vagueness and Contradictions.
https://cryingoutforjustice.com/2013/02/28/the-language-of-abusers-who-portray-themselves-as-victims-pt-1-vagueness-contraditions/
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“What would a humble pastor look like?”
Pastor Sam Powell is an example. His blog is myonlycomfort.com
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Bike Bubba, your suggestion about what the letter writers OUGHT to have said is spot on. I’m going to paste it here because it’s worth saying twice.
The first repentance ought to have been by the writers; “we’re sorry, we thought we knew the guy, and in our earlier interaction with this sad situation, we blew it. We ignored clear signs that Tullian’s story was not on the up and up, failed to corroborate key parts of the narrative, and ended up hurting his victims, Tullian himself, and finally our own reputations. For this we apologize and beg forgiveness, which we have asked through those who are interacting with the victims.” Or something like that. Then proceed to analyze why they got it wrong, how, etc..
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Brad, you said–
“Isn’t it curious that Paul Tripp’s statement said “his” [i.e., Tullian’s] marriage was irreparably broken, and not “their” [i.e., Tullian and Kim’s] marriage …?
That seems to be one way to “control the narrative,” by integrating the sentence around “him,” rather than “them.” As if he is the one in possession of the marriage, not them.”
I think you would enjoy Valerie Hobbs’ presentation on the Discourse of Divorce. She is a linguist and a Christian from the Reformed tradition . She analysed Sermon Audio’s 31 most-downloaded sermons on divorce. One of the things her analysis brought up is how often preachers talk about the man as the one who initiates divorces. But in fact, statistics show that TWO THIRDS of divorces are initiated by women.
Valerie Hobbs’ presentation can be viewed here: https://vimeo.com/194092753
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If any care to visit, there are currently some wise words from Hays of Triablogue fame on the subject of abuse and its exposure regarding Tom Chantry, a name familiar from former days before disillusionment with the MacArthur/Team Pyro stable set in. Tangentially Hays mentions Tullian.
Now the presumption of innocence needs to be carefully upheld regarding Chantry – something not always the case where accusations of abuse are concerned.
That said, this comment from Chantry at Pyro takes on a new irony, a potential classic example of self-deception, and may explain why Chantry was less than keen on exposing abuse in a comment section this comes from:
I know of situations which have never been resolved, and of pastors who have been guilty of great spiritual abuse. How I handle that, and more importantly, how I not handle that, is guided by Scripture.
I have to say that in this whole constituency of professional pastordom and “bible teaching” in your face humility is conspicuous by its absence. The accusation of abuse made my heart sink – not just for yet more victims, but you really would expect better from such men who claim to revere the bible as the word of God. After all, they are experts in exposing the immorality of the charismatics they despise!
Nothing but dead faith.
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Irene,
Your sweet sarcasm about Tripp was most welcome. GRRRR indeed. A load of hogwash, those books. Not an ounce of biblical truth in any of them. All man-centered *&^%.
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Julie Anne,
Your response to my question “What would a humble pastor look and sound like?” was perfect.
In complete agreement with your “I would imagine they would act like Jesus – or at least try too.”
Appreciate your work here in conjunction with your friends, and the fact that your compassion towards these women victims is a part of the healing process in the Body of Christ. Thank-you, thank-you to you, Brad and others, for sharing the love of Jesus with those who are experiencing the pain, the guilt and the shame for having been used by the clergy system.
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Boston Lady / Irene… I think there is a lot of truth in what Tripp writes, but it’s really difficult to separate the wheat and the chaff. I know Boston Lady often rants about Calvin – I find a lot of truth in what Calvin writes, for example, but he and his Reformation-era peers are so ignorant of the abuse of authority, specifically spiritual authority, and that is an underlying theme that clouds their writing.
I find the same thing with Tripp and many Reformed writers today. They are still drunk on the power that unquestioned spiritual authority grants them, and they are still blind to many abuses of those in power and how to identify and protect the victims of that abuse. They assume that their pastoral gifts give them some sort of ‘papal infallibility’ when they preach or counsel.
That’s why I think Tripp was used by Tullian. We was caught in his own willful blindness, Tullian’s skilled manipulation played on Tripp’s self-image as an infallible counselor and Tripp’s image of Tullian as a spiritually gifted pastor.
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Mark,
I am so glad someone, at least, has noticed my rants. Now I can concentrate on something else like singing backward.
Just kidding, Mark. Blessings to you. Thanks for your overall input; I do read and appreciate it. This is a great site that has and will still help many, many victims.
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Boston Lady – I obtained a recording of you singing backwards. If you reverse the recording and play it forwards, you get rude messages in Chinese.
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Boston Lady,
We enjoy hearing your thoughts and hope you have more in store for us.
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Boston Lady, hope “rant” wasn’t taken as offensive – in re-reading, it could be taken that way. It is an honestly hard problem – every human writing is going to have some measure of goodness, but mixed in with that is garbage or even poison. Critical thinking is definitely not taught from the pulpit – unless it is the pastor himself trumpeting his opinion against those who didn’t come to the same conclusion, but that is from authority, not engaging the listener in the thought process.
That is why I like Calvin. I definitely don’t agree 100% with him, and I find his writings laced with authoritarian poison. However, I find that Calvin tends to engage the reader in his thought process. Not just position, prooftext, but position, opposing view, prooftexts, why the prooftexts challenge the opposing view.
As far as Tripp and most modern Reformed writers go, I find them mostly devoid of reasoning. They are often speaking from a completely one-sided perspective, and, if they engage the opposition, it is often a caricature and not the meat of the argument. They use prooftexts, not to whittle away at the dividing line between truth and falsehood, but to find unquestioned support. Often, they ignore passages that appear to contradict their view.
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Our response to the call for Tullian’s “repentance.” http://wp.me/pmd7S-5Mv
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Paul,
This thread is about holding T.T. accountable.
If you prefer to meet in a home fellowship, that’s fine and we respect your decision.
But its unfair for you to post a link that slams all the rest of us who attend a brick and mortar church.
Also, just for the record because you posted that link………..
The Protestant Reformation was about putting the Bible into the hands of the common people after one thousand years of the Dark Ages when the Bible had been only available in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin which most people couldn’t read or afford. It’s really unfair for you to label the reformation as a scam when it actually pioneered the whole idea of human rights and the priesthood of every believer.
If you want to read that history——- research William Tyndale.
Now let’s get back on topic.
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Paul, please do not debate what Avid Reader just posted. We can discuss Tullian, however. 😊
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Avid Reader,
A link was posted. Why didn’t you comment there and keep it on topic here?
And JA, why no appeal to avid reader who actually responded to the linked post, here, instead of Paul’s blog? Paul only left a link.
I don’t get the double standard?
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Julie Anne,
By all means, please delete any comment I’ve made that you feel was out of place or off topic.
Lydia,
I’ll think about what you said the next time someone comes here and posts a link.
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