Some Christian Leaders are Hijacking the Ebola Crisis to Promote their Theology or Agenda

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Christian Leaders Respond to the Ebola Crisis promoting their agendas or theologies. Others respond in humility with real help to those in need.

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Ebola and Christians Responses

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But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need,

yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him? 1 John 3:17 

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This morning I ran across this tweet from Kevin DeYoung, Senior Pastor at University Reformed Church, and some interesting responses:

 

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For more info on “Jesus Juking”, here ya go.

I think Matthew Paul Turner’s posted an appropriate response to DeYoung’s tweet:

Friends, these Ebola/sin/theology comparisons really need to stop. Coming from privileged American pastors who are tweeting on their smart phones from the safety of their homes, these poorly chosen and untimely words are highly insensitive to the very real threat that Ebola poses in numerous East African nations. It’s very easy to make broad theological statements about Jesus and puns about the CDC while living in a country where Ebola isn’t killing people every single day.

Let’s take a look at some recent examples of church leaders using Ebola to promote their teachings and agenda:

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Ebola is Result of Same-Sex Marriages

Meanwhile, a North Carolina pastor, Ron Baity,  is blaming saying Ebola is a result of same-sex marriages in the article, NC pastor comes unglued over coming gay weddings: ‘You think Ebola is bad now, just wait!’, and also refers to it as a sign of the End Times.

Baptist pastor is warning that God will escalate the Ebola crisis when North Carolina begins performing same-sex marriages.

“You think Ebola is bad now, just wait. If it’s not that, it’s going to be something else. My friends, I want you to understand, you can’t thumb your nose at God, and God turn his head away without God getting your attention.”

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Ebola is God’s Punishment for “Dividing Jersusalem”

Popular Pastor John Hagee is another Christian leader using the Ebola crisis to promote his agenda. In this article, John Hagee: Ebola is God’s punishment for Obama ‘dividing Jerusalem’, we read of Obama being responsible for the problems in Jerusalem:

Citing the Book of Joel, the televangelist took to Tuesday’s broadcast of the “Hagee Hotline” to tell listeners that “our president is dead set on dividing Jerusalem. God is watching and he will bring America into judgment,” according to the left-leaning Right Wing Watch.

“There are grounds to say that judgment has already begun, because he, the president, has been fighting to divide Jerusalem for years now,” Hagee said in a YouTube video posted by Right Wing Watch.

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The Ebola disease prompted John Piper to Write a Poem

What this poem really means, I do not know, but here it is:

Today a thousand dead. And more
To die. A common ache, like flu,
Then nausea, a fever-soar,
A hopeless clinic interview:
“There’s nothing we can do.”
The bleeding has no bias. These:
A child, a chief, a friend, a nurse,
Liberian, and Leonese,
From Guinea, Texas, taste the curse—
And kindness, from the Purse.
Samaritans, six thousand miles
From home and care, subdue their fears,
And wonder if a sneeze defiles,
Or if a healthy fluid clears
The curse. Perhaps their tears.
But now two treasured ones, struck down,
Contagious still with death—and love—
Fly back to us, our joy, our crown,
A touch of grace, a gentle dove,
Yet through a plastic glove.
While in our land we see today
Another virus spreading, dumped,
More deadly, in the soul. They say,
“Why bring them home?” Though you be stumped,
This grace will not be trumped.

John Piper (Source)

 

Revised:  I forgot about this other gem from Piper:

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R.C. Sproul, Jr. Compares Ebola with Personal Sin and It’s Consequences

In his podcast: More Deadly than Ebola, by R.C. Sproul, Jr., Sproul, Jr. discusses being more concerned about one’s own sin, rather than the potential harm from Ebola.  Sproul discusses passing his disease of “sin” to his own children and he can see it spreading. “there is a Tsunami impact of my own sin that reaches beyond me and my family.”

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The Gospel Coalition “Shoulds” on Us

The Gospel Coalition of course has added their $.02 to this crisis:  What Christians Should Know about the Ebola Crisis.

This article gives some historical background of Ebola, how it’s transmitted, etc., but in the last paragraph, we get their theological response:  “How should we react to the threat of Ebola?”  

When we see the word “should,” the implication is that they are presuming their way to be the right way and if we are reacting another way, our way is not the right way.  :::::sigh:::::

Who anointed them (The Gospel Coalition)  o be King of Shoulds?  Do they have a direct line with God that we don’t to make these statements?

Now, in this particular case, I don’t have a big theological issue with what was presented, but it’s important to note how pastors and church leaders “should” on us. The onus is on us to be sure that what pastors say and tell us we should be doing lines up with what God has told us through His word. So, please be careful with those who are “shoulding you” as you navigate the Ebola fury. Cling to sound teaching from God’s Word and check for yourself, asking the Holy Spirit to guide you – yes, the same Holy Spirit accessible to all of the Kings of Shoulds.

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Ebola and Christian Leaders Response

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How to Help Liberia and Ebola Victims

We take a sharp turn in the next two articles.

In the article, Why Southern Baptists, Above All Others, Must Stand Ready to Aid Liberia, by Bart Barber, he explains why Southern Baptists, in particular, should be heeding the call to assist in the Ebola Crisis.  Here are a few notable quotes from the article:

The nations of Sierra Leone and Liberia were founded by people who were trying to solve the conflict over slavery by repopulating slaves to Africa. Liberia was founded by the United States of America.

To the degree that such things can be true two centuries later, the Liberian mess is one of America’s making, with particular responsibility falling upon Southern Baptists.

So, when the epidemiological tides turn (we’re not at all qualified to combat viruses), I believe that Southern Baptists will be doing the honorable thing if we step up to the plate in a sacrificial and jaw-dropping, head-turning way to address the plight of Liberia’s survivors.

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And finally, this church brings me back to what I view Christianity to be about: Help Ebola victims, Baptist pastor urges.  Look at how this single church in Herndon, VA has made a difference:

Meanwhile Mount Pleasant, a multi-ethnic 2,800-member Southern Baptist congregation with immigrants from about 25 countries, has been responding to the crisis through long-standing ministry partners and the Virginia congregation’s church plants in Sierra Leone and Liberia. The church maintains active partnerships in several other African countries and has worked closely with the North American Mission Board and the International Mission Board on numerous projects.

“We started helping [ministry partners] as soon as we were notified of the crisis,” Graham said. Working with pastors in Sierra Leone and Liberia, Mount Pleasant has sent money to purchase and distribute disinfectant kits there, and to disseminate information on avoiding and responding to the virus. Mount Pleasant is collecting nonperishable items to send to the countries in November.

“Those are the two places we’ve been focusing on and distributing primarily disinfectant kits, that is essentially Clorox, buckets and rubber gloves,” he said, “and then doing information sessions with the people there in churches concerning the necessity of exercising good hygienic practices — washing their hands, [and] sterilizing and cleaning their floors, eating utensils and that type of stuff.”

The church has a long-standing ministry to install water wells in developing countries, and will continue those efforts in the communities of Bo and Lungi, Sierra Leone.

 

 

 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor,

doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need. 

Ephesians 4:28 

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photo credits:

56 comments on “Some Christian Leaders are Hijacking the Ebola Crisis to Promote their Theology or Agenda

  1. It seems to me that to accuse Kevin DeYoung of hijacking the Ebola crisis would be like accusing Jesus of hijacking the Tower of Siloam incident. Any reminder of human mortality can be used to remind us that… there is a final judge, any day could be our last, and repentance and faith is called for from all peoples.

    Like

  2. OK, the whole judgement angle about ebola is just sick! My BIL and his wife awoke Wed. morning to the sound of helicopters over their apartment complex. The nurse, Amber Vinson, resides in their complex. That poor nurse sacrificed her safety to care for another human being in dire need! Is she to blame for catching ebola? That’s nonsense.

    I spent Thursday evening looking up news coverage on ebola and found a video put out by the New York Times. The story is told from the vantage point of an emergency ambulance worker in Monrovia. See if your heart doesn’t go out to these people.

    Like

  3. David Shane

    It seems to me that to accuse Kevin DeYoung of hijacking the Ebola crisis would be like accusing Jesus of hijacking the Tower of Siloam incident.

    I’d say that these guys hopping on the ebola crisis to score theological brownie points and sound pious is more like Job’s “friends” or “counselors” in the book of Job.

    The ones who tried to give Job a scolding, advice, blame, or theological reasons as to his suffering.

    And which only caused Job even more emotional pain, and God showed up at the end of that story to tell them all how wrong they were.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. I actually wanted to comment on this part:

    Ebola is God’s Punishment for “Dividing Jersusalem”
    Popular Pastor John Hagee is another Christian leader using the Ebola crisis to promote his agenda.

    Hagee does this all the time, any time a world situation occurs, as do one or two other, very pro-Zionist, Bible prophecy Christian talking heads and pastors (note I am not knocking a person being pro Zionist, I am just describing these guys’ beliefs, where they are coming from).

    Any time anything happens in or to the USA or around the world and especially to Israel or some other Mid East nation — say for example the President of the USA shows up to a dinner party with spinach stuck between his teeth – Hagee will say that is God’s judgment on America for allowing or encouraging the division of Jerusalem, or asking Israel to give up its land.

    If the President stubs his toe, it was God’s judgment for the USA dividing Jerusalem. If it rains on the 4th of July causing Americans to have to cancel their parades or BBQs, that was God’s judgment for American allowing Israel to give away land/ encouraging Jerusalem to be divided.

    If John Hagee’s local grocery store runs out of tortillas or taco seasoning (the man is constantly mentioning Tex Mex food in his sermons, he must love it), you can dang well count on Hagee to say lack of tortillas is God’s judgment on America for telling Israel to give up land or Jerusalem being divided.

    Did one of Hagee’s socks get lost in the laundry? That’s God’s judgment on America over Israel.

    Almost everything in this man’s politics and theology comes down to, “This was God’s judgement on America because Israel.”

    I suppose it’s debatable if God does sit in judgment of the nations vis a vis how they treat Israel (really I don’t know), but with guys like Hagee, it starts to sound ridiculous after awhile, because they are obsessed with it and chalk everything up to that.

    Like

  5. This part:

    R.C. Sproul, Jr. Compares Ebola with Personal Sin and It’s Consequences
    In his podcast: More Deadly than Ebola, by R.C. Sproul, Jr., Sproul, Jr. discusses being more concerned about one’s own sin, rather than the potential harm from Ebola.
    Sproul discusses passing his disease of “sin” to his own children and he can see it spreading. “there is a Tsunami impact of my own sin that reaches beyond me and my family.”

    This is one of my pet peeves about some forms of Christianity, or some types of Christians themselves.

    Instead of just helping people who have a problem (with practical help, such as sending food, medicine, etc, or being a shoulder for someone to cry on), they want to turn everything into a theology lesson, and it usually boils down to “this happened to you because you are a sinner.”

    Some Christians do this with other issues, such as domestic abuse (blame the wife for being abused because she doesn’t “submit enough” – she is supposedly at fault because she is in sin), with Christians who have depression (you’re to blame for having depression because you are a sinner or must have sin), etc.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Have to say I don’t understand your analogy at all, missdaisy. Yes, Job’s friends were full of “this is why this is happening to you, Job” bad advice – but that isn’t what Jesus or Kevin were doing at all. In both those cases they were making wider addresses whose entire purpose is to say to humanity at large “you too are going to die. Probably not from a tower falling on you, probably not from ebola, but the end of all people is the same. Therefore repent and believe, and truly live, though you may die.”

    Like

  7. David Shane and longerthoughts,

    I think you both missed the part of the post about Jesus Jukes. Let me help you out by repeating what JA posted from Matthew Paul Turner above.

    “Friends, these Ebola/sin/theology comparisons really need to stop. Coming from privileged American pastors who are tweeting on their smart phones from the safety of their homes, these poorly chosen and untimely words are highly insensitive to the very real threat that Ebola poses in numerous East African nations. It’s very easy to make broad theological statements about Jesus and puns about the CDC while living in a country where Ebola isn’t killing people every single day.”

    Liked by 2 people

  8. “you too are going to die. Probably not from a tower falling on you, probably not from ebola, but the end of all people is the same. Therefore repent and believe, and truly live, though you may die.”

    When DeYoung tweets the following about cancer or heart disease,

    *To think nothing of the danger of cancer or heart disease is unwise. To think nothing of our certain death is folly. Chemo/CABG can help, but only Jesus saves*

    then I’ll believe his Ebola tweet is no being used for a purpose.

    Liked by 2 people

  9. Good point, Diane. They are sucking us into their “gospel” message by the current Ebola fear frenzy. It’s no different than scaring people into heaven by using those old Thief in the Night movies.

    Like

  10. BeenThereDoneThat, thank you for the tape. My heart breaks for the people in Liberia. I think we have all felt hopeless at some time in our lives. This allows us to experience empathy for those who suffer much worse than We do. We are to show Christ’s love and compassion to those who suffer. We are the hands and feet of our Savior. DeYoung needs to quit speaking judgement towards the poor, sick and disenfranchized. Then he can sell his worldly goods and go walk the walk by comforting the sick.
    Most of these men need to put down their microphones and start getting to work!!!

    Liked by 2 people

  11. Yes, it is good to see, Diane.

    I just revised the post to add Piper’s “Ebola of Unbelief” tweet beneath his prose. He must have time on his hands, I tell you.

    Like

  12. This is a long and complicated post, consisting primarily of ill-connected quotes from (I suspect) those who are the “God has called me to be church leader and opinion-former” folk who tweeted their quite possibly ill-informed and tactless “shooting from the hip” sermon illustrations, in 140 characters or less, exploiting a news story (Ebola), using (or abusing) this news story, as a mere continuity link, to preface their usual message, that has at least some vague connection to the “Jesus is Lord” meme.

    This is the age of the internet. I confess that I often blog, email and tweet myself, making random continuity links between what my message to the world is, and what is topical today in the mass media. I can therefore live with the fact that others I don’t know, with whom Julie Ann has, and I might well have, differences of opinion, do the same.

    If I bothered to get involved every time somebody with a chip on his or her shoulder caught a church leader they weren’t fond of, tweeting a tweet that wrought such random continuity links badly, and thereupon dedicated an entire blog post to criticism of mere tweets, I don’t think I’d be making “what would Jesus have done, if He had had a Twitter account or a subscription to Spiritual Sounding Board” best use of my time.

    So, having explained at such length why I don’t want to comment, my only comment is “no comment”.

    Like

  13. longerthoughts said,

    Have to say I don’t understand your analogy at all, missdaisy.
    Yes, Job’s friends were full of “this is why this is happening to you, Job” bad advice – but that isn’t what Jesus or Kevin were doing at all. In both those cases they were making wider addresses whose entire purpose is to say to humanity at large “you too are going to die. Probably not from a tower falling on you, probably not from ebola, but the end of all people is the same. Therefore repent and believe, and truly live, though you may die.”

    Yes, it’s exactly what Kevin was doing, addressing theological issues at a wrong time.

    When people are dying and hurting, they need practical help – food, medicine, love, NOT “spiritual help” as in lectures about “you are a sinner and need Jesus.”

    Why do you think the book of James says (summary my words)

    “Do not tell a hungry, cold man “have a great day, may Jesus bless you,” but instead, give that man a warm coat and a bowl of soup.”

    You are supposed to address people’s physical and emotional needs first, according to the Bible, and get to spiritual issues later.

    And that is what Job’s friends did to Job in the middle of his pain and loss, blamed him, gave him sermons, gave him theological lessons. They did not love on him and show him compassion, they lectured, gave Sunday School lessons

    When someone is in a lot of pain, that is not the appropriate time to delve into theology or soteriology.

    Reminds me of real life story I read in a book about a native lady with a sick kid. It went something like this…

    The American Christian missionary was trying to tell the native lady about Jesus, sin, Hell, etc. She said to him, “I don’t care about your Jesus or your religion. Feed and heal my sick baby first, then maybe I will care.”

    Christians really ought to resist the urge to turn every calamity or sickness or natural disaster into an opportunity to sermonize, lecture, fault find.

    If you don’t get that, that is very sad, and you are probably turning a lot of people you meet off to Jesus, not on to Jesus.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Re Piper’s tweet.

    “The ebola of unbelief” ???

    I will use the “rolling eyes” emoticon to convey how I feel about that: 🙄

    It’s just tacky, too, for these preachers to do this. They use whatever the current world – or national – problem is as a platform to pontificate, to push their theology.

    Usually, they do this with tornadoes or hurricanes. It is so tacky.

    Can I turn the tables on Piper, et al? How about:
    “Just like hospital nurses and CDC personnel wear Haz Mat suits around ebola patients, may every Christian put on the Haz Mat Suit of Discernment when listening to celebrity preachers, especially ones who spew idiocy”

    Liked by 1 person

  15. John,

    That’s an awful lot of words to say “no comment”. Did you have some convoluted point to make, or are you just trolling?

    Julie Anne is right to call out these so-called leaders in Christendom, John. Jesus juking is dumb. Guys who set themselves up as examples, and make themselves the public face of the Church, need to learn how to do better, even within the constraints of Twitter.

    P.S. There are no subscriptions to SSB.

    Like

  16. @Daisy:

    Did one of Hagee’s socks get lost in the laundry? That’s God’s judgment on America over Israel.

    Almost everything in this man’s politics and theology comes down to, “This was God’s judgement on America because Israel.”

    Not “Fulfills such-and-such End Time Prophecy”?
    Or is that “sooo day-before-yesterday”?

    Seems like to Hagee, God has no reason to exist other than to PUNISH! PUNISH! PUNISH!

    Like

  17. @Daisy:

    Instead of just helping people who have a problem (with practical help, such as sending food, medicine, etc, or being a shoulder for someone to cry on), they want to turn everything into a theology lesson, and it usually boils down to “this happened to you because you are a sinner.”

    Note “YOU!!!!” are a sinner, not “MEEEEEEEE!” (despite my Total Depravity lip service, I still Count Coup on You).

    Like gun control Activists(!) whenever there’s a school shooting.
    “All these people dead? WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY TO ADVANCE *MY* AGENDA!”

    Liked by 1 person

  18. I hope this isn’t off-topic, but I followed the link to Baity’s rant. One link supplied by a commenter led to this blog post.

    http://chucklestravels.com/2011/06/07/featuring-the-love-of-pastor-ronnie-baity/

    It’s not very well written, but the point is very clear. This so-called pastor foams at the mouth about the “abomination” of gay marriage. But he seems to be just fine sending material support to a suspected child molester. Does he not consider pedophilia to be “out of habitation”? (What on earth does that mean, anyway? Never heard of it.)

    JA, feel free to delete if this better for another thread. I just thought that it puts Baity’s words in an interesting light.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. @ David Shane

    “It seems to me that to accuse Kevin DeYoung of hijacking the Ebola crisis would be like accusing Jesus of hijacking the Tower of Siloam incident.”

    LOL! That perceptive comment of yours is simply priceless, in my opinion. It’s exactly the thought I had myself, but was scared to articulate, here.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_flesh_is_grass

    Human mortality isn’t ever news, unless once in a while several of us die, younger than we planned to die, all of us from the same cause of death, at more-or-less the same time, just like the 18 masons who lost their lives when their renovations of the Tower of Siloam went so awry. Nowadays, the Father, in his providence, apparently has to let a few “women and girls” perish, or at least be inconvenienced, before our newpapers even bother to report a sad story.

    http://mra-uk.co.uk/?p=110

    If the bad news of our mortality isn’t otherwise getting through, so that the relevance to the human condition isn’t perceived of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, His conquest of death, and of His promise outside the tomb of Lazarus often quoted a funerals, then thank God for every epidemic and health scare going, say I.

    If (say) a charismatic neo-Calvinist control freak who rubs Julie Anne up the wrong way, tries to cram, into a 140 character-long tweet, both a topical reference to a topical news story, and a gospel message of sorts that at least mentions the Lord Jesus Christ, then you won’t catch me complaining.

    Like

  20. As if we need preachers shooting off their mouths Jesus-Juking Ebola.
    (Well, they did it with Inevitable Global Nuclear War, why not?)

    Things are grim and crazy enough without these guys running their pie-holes and going “I did a poopie!” on Twitter. (Why do you think they call them “Twits”?) West Africa’s starting to look like an encore performance of the Black Death, we have an Ebola panic going here in the States (being mined for Political Counting Coup in this election year), and everyone who’s not in the hot zone is going crazy. Hand Sanitizers disappearing from shelves (all sold out), parents taking their kids out of schools because another kid in that school knew one of the infected nurses, cruise ships being denied landfall, spokeshole activists and political candidates getting their 15 minutes of fame talking about “If I were Ebola Czar, we’d be napalming villages over there”, even Ebola hoaxes.

    Yes, Ebola hoaxes. Poor people claiming they have Ebola to jump waiting lists for medical care. Some idiot jumping on a bus in a mask, yelling “I’ve got Ebola! You’re all screwed!” and jumping off. And latest scoop is copycats springing up.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. @ServingKidsInJapan:

    It’s not very well written, but the point is very clear. This so-called pastor foams at the mouth about the “abomination” of gay marriage. But he seems to be just fine sending material support to a suspected child molester.

    If the molester was male and his victim female, that’s very consistent with these guys. It’s not HOMOSEXUALITY(TM), just Patriarchal Privilege.

    Like

  22. “Yes, yes, let us give and pray and risk in the battle against Ebola. And yes, yes, even more against the Ebola of unbelief.”

    Piper’s tweet makes no sense in light of his belief in TULIP. According to what Piper teaches we cannot help our unbelief because God has to force us to believe because those chosen were chosen before the world was even created or adam sinned. In Piper’s doctrine the dots connect to God being the author of Ebola.

    Liked by 2 people

  23. @ Serving Kids in Japan

    “are you just trolling?”

    If, by “trolling”, you mean posting content that one suspects some others might dislike, craving the attention one gets when they say so, then, yes, I guess I *was* “trolling”. Yum yum. Thank you for feeding me, the troll.

    Of course, applying THIS broad definition of “trolling” (and is there any other?), then this entire blog is one giant trolling exercise. However, I have a slightly higher opinion of this blog than that. I am not, so far as I know, Julie Ann’s enemy. I am, occasionally, a critic of hers though. I don’t think of this as blasphemy on my part.

    “Jesus juking is dumb”

    I discovered the verb “to juke” for the first time only tonight, here. How unhip is that? I looked it up, and found this definition.

    juke
    dʒuːk/Submit
    NORTH AMERICAN informal

    verb
    1.
    dance, especially to the music of a jukebox.
    “a middle-aged couple shook and juked to the music”
    2.
    (in sport) make a sham move to mislead an opponent.
    “Howard juked left, sending three defenders leaning as he went toward the center of the field”

    What, expressed in more old-fashioned vocabulary that English speakers who aren’t North American, nor habitually “informal” (and perhaps even “convoluted” in their speech!) are you asserting is “dumb”, whenever Jesus is involved in the “juking” concerned? Who knows? I might even agree with you, if I only knew what “Jesus juking” was in the first place.

    “Guys who set themselves up as examples, and make themselves the public face of the Church, need to learn how to do better, even within the constraints of Twitter.”

    I agree. I hope that Julie Anne is lurking.

    “There are no subscriptions to SSB.”

    When one WordPress hack clicks “follow”, to get notified automatically of all new posts of another WordPress hack, WordPress calls the thing it wants the follower to “confirm”, by clicking on a link in an automatically-generated email, a “subscription”. That was all I meant.

    Like

  24. “Piper’s tweet makes no sense in light of his belief in TULIP. According to what Piper teaches we cannot help our unbelief because God has to force us to believe because those chosen were chosen before the world was even created or Adam sinned. In Piper’s doctrine the dots connect to God being the author of Ebola.”

    Please don’t worry your head about TULIP Calvinism. I was blessed by reading a short book about it once. The intellectual mistake of importing ideas of *causality” into a man-made philosophy, the presumed to address the question as to what caused *saving faith” offended me too. But at least I was left believing that there was such a thing as “saving faith”, and, by God, I wanted that more than anything.

    The true gospel doesn’t need TULIP Calvinism, but it isn’t harmed by it either. We need to believe the true gospel, like little children, who are only just coming to grips with the idea of causality.

    When a TULIP Calvinist contradicts his man-made “systematic theology” creed, please don’t gloat and have a dig at him. Please just smile, and carry on believing in Jesus. That is The Way, whether or not it was – er – “bound to happen” to you or not.

    Like

  25. @John Allman

    It’s interesting that the only comments in this thread you seem to enjoy or reply to are those that are being critical of Julie Anne or this blog over all. I suspect you have an agenda.

    You need to go back and read my replies to David Shane, you, like he, missed the point.

    It’s not that people die – everyone knows everyone dies – the problem are how so-called Christians deal with that fact, more specifically, block head preachers who use people’s heartache, death, or suffering during it, as it is going on, to score theological brownie points on social media and where ever else.

    Even the Bible says (see book of James) to offer practical assistance to one who is hurting, and the book of Job says to offer comfort to the hurting as they hurt, not sermons, scoldings, or blame.

    James 2:15, 16
    If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?

    Like

  26. @ John Allman re your last reply.

    “Jesus Juking” is a phrase started by Christian blogger by Jon Acuff a few years ago.
    The Jesus Juke

    Your posts often do read as trolling. You don’t strike me as a sincere participant but either as a troll or a crank who has a personal, anti-Julie Anne vendetta, or anti- vendetta against anyone who expresses anything less than glowing admiration for celebrity preachers.

    Like

  27. HUG said,

    Hand Sanitizers disappearing from shelves (all sold out), parents taking their kids out of schools because another kid in that school knew one of the infected nurses, cruise ships being denied landfall,

    And etc.

    I’ve read in a few of these articles that people have caught the disease in spite of wearing the full, protective Haz Mat suits. I don’t think hand sanitizers are going to do much.

    Some NBC camera news guy caught ebola while on report in some African nation and one news source I heard (a pod cast) said the camera guy did not even come into contact with an ebola patient.

    Some medical experts quoted this past week say they think ebola can or will become air borne.

    Like

  28. FYI, Mr. Allman’s posts are in moderation and I have obviously approved them. I don’t have a desire to engage at the moment as I have an 8-yr old sickie who is abnormally cuddly at the moment so I’m soaking it up while I can.

    Liked by 2 people

  29. Carmen wrote: “Tim, A heartfelt thank you for your John Piper blog post, and your tweet to Kevin DeYoung,”

    My pleasure, Carmen. I’m glad that post made sense!

    Like

  30. John Allman, the issue isn’t with not liking the way Mr. Piper said something. the issue is that what he says belies problematic doctrine underlying his statement. I explain that in this post on his recent Ebola tweet: http://timfall.wordpress.com/2014/10/10/john-piper-takes-unfair-advantage-of-the-ebola-crisis/

    As for Jesus talking about the people dying when the tower fell, he was not capitalizing on their deaths. He was addressing the false ideas of the time that such tragedies happened to sinners while the righteous were known by the prosperous lives they enjoyed. That’s a huge difference from the Ebola tweets, and is plain from the context of the tower passage. Jesus did not denigrate their suffering at all.

    Liked by 2 people

  31. “the only comments in this thread you seem to enjoy or reply to are those that are being critical of Julie Anne”

    I haven’t even seen any comments in this thread that are critical of Julie Anne. I enjoyed the comment of yours that I am replying to now, except for the ad hominem opening paragraph, unless you count my “no comment” comment.

    Almost certainly, I have not studied the main blog post and the people it quotes enough to join in the criticism of them.

    We will have to give an account of our every word to the Lord. I am content to leave it to Him to rebuke the tweeters. I don’t follow them.

    Like

  32. So you came to the blog without reading the post and are commenting and stirring trouble. I’m going to take a John Allman sabbath today from moderating your posts. Please don’t bother commenting.

    Liked by 1 person

  33. @Tim:

    As for Jesus talking about the people dying when the tower fell, he was not capitalizing on their deaths. He was addressing the false ideas of the time that such tragedies happened to sinners while the righteous were known by the prosperous lives they enjoyed.

    Isn’t that “Jesus vs the Prosperity Gospel”?
    “Prosperity Gospel” as in all the Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous MenaGAWD you find in the IFBs and the Megas?

    Like

  34. JA,

    I’d just like to say “Yay!” to you for putting John in his place. Boy, I wonder what his problem is…

    And thank you for the link to the “Jesus Juke” page. A great discussion there about what it is, and why people slip into those kinds of games of “spiritual one-upmanship”.

    Like

  35. I wonder if the next Christianese response we’re going to see is use of Fear of Ebola to “Scare ’em into the Kingdom” from the pulpits. Such as describing Death from Ebola in pornographic detail, whipping up the Fear and Terror, followed by a “If YOU Died of Ebola, Do YOU KNOW Where YOU Would SPEND ETERNITY?????” Altar Call.
    i.e.
    “All this death and destruction!
    WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY TO ADVANCE MY AGENDA!”

    Like

  36. P.S.
    Remember who we’re talking about up top.
    He of the fluttering hands and manly voice, who shoots off his Twitter fingers to Count Theological Coup at EVERY natural disaster. Tornadoes, hurricanes, school shootings — is Ebola really that much a stretch?

    Like

  37. Serving, I don’t understand why people think they need to sell Jesus or manipulate and fear people into heaven. It cheapens who He is. I’m tired of the monkey business, especially from “respected” leaders who “should” on us by telling us how we should be thinking or responding. Did someone should on them? Give it up, already! How dare we mess around with the message and Gospel of Christ by putting extras in it!

    Liked by 1 person

  38. You are correct in your observation here Headless Unicorn Guy, “He of the fluttering hands and manly voice, who shoots off his Twitter fingers to Count Theological Coup at EVERY natural disaster. Tornadoes, hurricanes, school shootings – is Ebola really that much a stretch?” I appreciate your candor, bless you.

    These types of false prophets, false teachers and false preachers feed off of calamity with their “bread and butter” being the “big bucks.” And those who choose to follow these individuals are equally as guilty for chewing on the moldy hubris these individuals spew forth. There is a popular saying within the walls of Christendom these days, “Just chew on the meat and spit out the bones.” I have been told this by women who actually follow the John Hagees, the Pat Robertsons, the Joel Osteens, the Todd Bentleys, the Oral Roberts, etc. I came out of a church system who promote these individuals, very powerfully I might add, even over and above Jesus Christ.

    Maybe it is time for the sheep in America to clean off their plates go back to their small assemblies, gathering around breaking bread, ministering to one another in the Name of Jesus Christ through the power of God’s Word, our Holy Bibles. This is where I am ministered too, in love, with those who exhibit the fruits of God, the Holy Spirit.

    I, too, must confess that I CHOSE to follow some of these wolves in sheep’s clothing, purchasing their wares and tares for mammon, until one day I chose to read the Bible for myself instead of sitting under the charlatans of our day, what a fool am I. What a fool indeed, until the day came when I gathered up their religious fodder and walked out to the back forty and lit a match to all of the books, cd’s, and dvd’s I had garnered with my own mammon (what a waste of a buck, huh?”

    Oh, what joy it brought to my soul to see the garbage of lies go up in flames….to watch the meat and bones of man’s vanity go up in smoke, like dust in the wind. What a release, what liberation fully knowing that I no longer am tempted to purchase any of these wolves’ works in making them very rich men and women.

    Consider this for the moment…”Without any calamity, would these men and women have a platform to promote themselves and garner vast amounts of mammon from the coffers and bookstores?”

    Or would they be reduced to ashes as well….hmmmm. Dust to dust.

    May our LORD Jesus Christ be with all of you as we honor Him in spirit and truth each and every day. Oh, what a Glorious Savior we have.

    And Mr. Allen, I really do love Julie Anne, and her courage and boldness here, in allowing us to have a thought and a voice. May God Bless her and heal her sick, in the Name of Jesus. Amen.

    Like

  39. Julie:I am so glad you have brought this to public attention. This type of response from the church happens every time something horrific happens. Compassion goes out the window to agenda in the name of Christ and religion. It’s ridiculous and people buying it is even more ridiculous.

    Liked by 1 person

  40. Oops! I called Mr. Allman, Mr. Allen. I apologize for the miscommunication on my part. Please forgive me, this what not intentional.

    Like

  41. @Katy:

    There is a popular saying within the walls of Christendom these days, “Just chew on the meat and spit out the bones.” I have been told this by women who actually follow the John Hagees, the Pat Robertsons, the Joel Osteens, the Todd Bentleys, the Oral Roberts, etc.

    To which I always say “What if it’s all bones and no meat?”

    Because when someone tells you “Just chew on the meat and spit out the bones,” they’re usually trying to unload a bag of bones on you.

    (And I’m surprised the fact that WOMEN are the ones who Harley Quinn these celeb types isn’t being used by the Comp/Patrio male supremacists to prove their point that women are stupid and easily deceived. Because if I were a male supremacist, I’d sure cite them as proof examples.)

    Like

  42. The Ebola disease prompted John Piper to Write a Poem

    What this poem really means, I do not know, but here it is…

    There is a reason I don’t write poetry.
    I’m no good at it.
    Apparently John Piper has never realized the same.

    Like

  43. I went to the linked source of the Piper poem. The comments there are further examples of the wrong-headed response to the Ebola crisis, one even asking if perhaps the Ebola scare isn’t some sort of ruse to get Americans to be injected with a vaccine they don’t need. Ignorance and conspiracy theories are a dangerous combination.

    Like

  44. “… further examples of the wrong-headed response to the Ebola crisis, one even asking if perhaps the Ebola scare isn’t some sort of ruse to get Americans to be injected with a vaccine they don’t need.”

    What do you mean, “even”? That a pretty obvious speculation to make, given modern mistrust of government, for which government has only itself to blame..

    “Ignorance and conspiracy theories are a dangerous combination.”

    If government considers ignorance and conspiracy theories to be a dangerous combination, the government should dispel the ignorance by relaxing its own secrecy, and trying to get through a few decades without any further conspiracies, like the countless past conspiracies about which the public only found out about half a lifetime or more after they’d happened.

    Like

  45. “What do you mean, “even”? That a pretty obvious speculation to make, given modern mistrust of government, for which government has only itself to blame..”

    Mr. Allman,

    My former “church” was anti vaccine. Ask me what it’s like to watch four of your kids gasp for breath and vomit with whooping cough. My three-year-old (at that time) stopped breathing three times. I’m inclined to distrust the anti-vaccine movement.

    Like

  46. I still can’t understand why some Christians get all bent out of shape by vaccines. There were some in the homeschooling world who basically took the tack of the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christian Scientists, trying to claim religious exemptions if necessary. What in the world does the Bible have to do with modern pseudo-scientific conspiracy theories?

    Like

  47. “My former ‘church. was anti vaccine.”

    That is the first time I’ve come across a tale of an anti-vaccine church. Is this common is the USA?

    “I’m inclined to distrust the anti-vaccine movement.”

    I’m inclined to mistrust movements, churches AND governments.

    The optimum selfish course of action, is successfully to advise all other parents to have their children vaccinated, so that your children won’t need to be vaccinated. Easier said than done, and hypocritical to boot.

    Like

  48. “What in the world does the Bible have to do with modern pseudo-scientific conspiracy theories?”

    2 Thess 2 states the apostle Paul’s own conspiracy theory.

    1 Tim 6:20 could be creatively interpreted as a reference to what we would nowadays call pseudo-science. At the time it probably referred to gnosticism. However, some believe in the verbal inspiration of scripture. In any case, elements of gnosticism still permeate culture. The idea of knowing deep truths that only a few know is appealing to the sinful mind.

    “Don’t call everything a conspiracy, like they do, and don’t live in dread of what frightens them.” [Is 8:12 NLT]

    My point was that a major cause of credence in conspiracy theories today, is public awareness of past conspiracies. Once bitten, twice shy.

    Like

  49. “That is the first time I’ve come across a tale of an anti-vaccine church. Is this common is the USA?”

    Let’s just say it’s far from unheard of here. You usually find this in the fringe religious movements as far as churches go. There are pockets of average, intelligent people who choose not to vaccinate. But I take particular exception to religious leaders pushing the idea as more “biblical.” Otherwise, what another parent decides to do is up to them. I much prefer personal responsibility. In my experience, the churches that promote this agenda accept no responsibility for their “ministry” should a child die or suffer disability as a result. It’s just “the lord’s will.”

    “I’m inclined to mistrust movements, churches AND governments.”

    Ah. At last we have some views in common. I no longer give blanket trust to any of these either. Though, at least in this country, you have to be careful how you present your views on mistrust government. It could land you on a watch list. 🙂

    Like

  50. @ BeenThereDoneThat

    I’ve already had hassle from Homeland Security, at Dallas-Fort Worth airport in 2007, when trying to fly to Toronto. I lost my US cell phone, and was detained until I almost missed my flight. I was only a visitor to the USA too.

    Like

  51. I’m sorry about the hassle, Mr. Allman. You are not alone. Plenty of US citizens are unhappy with their treatment at the hands of security officials at airports. I haven’t flown in over 26 years. Conditions were very different back then. It’s a different world today.

    Like

  52. I just came across this:
    The Antidote to Spiritual Ebola on CrossWalk by Kenny Luck

    An excerpt

    Oct 10, 2014
    Like the biological virus, fear is a spiritual Ebola that can infect even the most faithful God-fearing Christian. In the book of Numbers, chapters 13-15, the Bible tells the account of how the spiritual Ebola of fear infected the Israelites —even though they had just witnessed God’s power to escape Egyptian slavery.

    In the story, God told Moses to send out 12 men to check out the land promised to them, survey the fruitfulness and scope out the enemies. After 40 days, 10 of the 12 men reported the enemies were too big, and cities too strong. They injected fear which spread like Ebola through the population. The people “raised their voices,”“wept aloud”and “grumbled,”even proposing they choose a leader and return to Egypt and slavery.

    But two of the 12 scouts, Caleb and Joshua, give us a lesson of the antidote to spiritual Ebola. In short, we need to be a “culture of Calebs.”

    Like

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